georger 247
Recommended Posts
georger 247
QuoteYou obviously are contending Tina Mucklow had an
abusive father. On what do you base that contention?
You knew Tina Mucklow and her family? You have
factual data from some source that Tina Mucklow's
father was abusive? Do you have hospital records
from your prior work in psychiatry you cite, about
Tina Mucklow? Did you work at a facility where Tina
was being cared for and she was under your
personal care or authority? What is the source of
your knowledge you are speaking from ???
Please make yourselves clear. Inquiring minds
want to know!
Thank you Mr. or is it Dr. Bruce?
Greetings Georger:
Cousin Brucie will do.
Do I have any facts about Tina’s mental health and life? Nope. Just reading the tea leaves here. Observations from what is known behavior of the principals.
Hence, Tina is an interesting gal. When I see good-looking women bringing bibles to work, or other talisman of support, i.e.: dolls, I think of patients I have known who do the same. Hence, I make an association to Tina and wonder if her reasons are the same, i.e.: recovering from sexual abuse.
Regardless, the essential question is why talk about Tina's mental health at all. I do so, with great concern for her privacy and possible fragility, but also with great interest because she's the one who described the tie at her debriefing in Reno. Yet, the Reno FBI guys have no recollection of seeing the tie, nor recovering it. To me, that's a red flag.
Now, Jerry Thomas has speculated to me in a phone call that he thinks the first federal guy on 305, or one of the first, such as Red Campbell, spotted the tie and instantly realized he had a diamond of a clue. Jerry thinks that individual kept it secret even from his fellow FBI agents to make sure he had an iron-clad "prove-it" clue to any wannabe confessing to the crime.
That's one possibility, and knowing how the FBI worked under Hoover, very plausible*.
Another possibility is that the tie was a plant, and placed – for reasons still unclear - into the evidentiary collection – another red flag here - four days after the hijacking, as Russ Calame writes in DB Cooper-The Real McCoy.
If it's a plant, then how did Tina make her tie disclosure during her de-briefing? One possibility is that a hypnotic suggestion was placed into her consciousness prior to the hijacking by the folks who planted the tie.
A stretch? You bet.
However, it all comes back to Danny Boy. Why did he leave his tie on 305, if in fact he did? Absentminded? Hmmm, he was pretty sharp in all other facets of the caper. Forgetting a tie left in plain sight is also a stretch to believe.
Tina snatched it for a souvenir and then gave it to the Feds, or was prompted in-flight by them to get evidence? Hmmm, also possibilities.
Another one is that Danny left it as a "howdy" to family and friends, ala Duane Weber and Jo's hypothesis. But then, once identified to his family, he had to leave them totally – complete abandonment – in order to preserve his freedom. Whew, tough gig. But again, Duane seems uniquely capable of walking away from his past. Such behavior would require an enormously compartmentalized mind and emotional being that again, strongly suggests personality disorder. Never call your mom? Your kid? Not a goodbye kiss for your wife? Whew. If in fact that is what Duane did, post-November 24, 1971, and here I’m drawing upon Jo’s recent postings for some detail on this possibility.
We all bring what we’ve got to this party. Some of you have extensive aviation backgrounds; most have sharp minds and expressive tongues, and all are fueled by dogged intent. Me, I have a familiarity with psychiatry, and I see a ton of behavioral clues that call for examination.
Yet, with all this, what I most desire, and most hope to gain from this forum, is a better understanding of how the FBI functioned, and is functioning, in this case. Who called the shots? How were decisions made? What is the nitty–gritty of the FBI’s investigation of DB Cooper? In that pursuit, the utter silence of Ralph, Larry and others – not to tell me what they think of Barb Dayton or Tina’s mental health - but to remain silent on what they did, are doing, and why, raises an enormous red flag.
As my mother would say, their silence speaks volumes.
*Russ Calame, in his book DB Cooper, The Real McCoy, describes the Bureau as one where an agent could make an extra 200-300 bucks a month – direct from Hoover and in cash - by doing snazzy sleuthing, like picking up a tie on 305. This suggests two things – one, Hoover was intimately involved in the investigative work his agents were doing and begs the question of what his involvement was in the DBC case, and two, he bred a culture where FBI agents didn’t trust each other as robustly as one would think, or hope for, and how did that shape the Bureau’s investigation of DB Cooper? I.E.: did Campbell pick up a couple hundred extra for snatching the tie, but ultimately sabotaged the case?
well the above, to my mind, is a more reasonable
stance(s). I have several reactions:
I think Carr and others could cut through the
theoretical options you cite very quickly, with facts.
You could chose to believe it or not.
There were independent witnesses and records
to the items found on board the plane at Reno.
The custody chain is another matter. In that there
may be a problem but I am not in a position to
know.
Somewhere on Sluggo's cite is a list of the agents who have been in charge of the Cooper case at one time or another. The list is long. The list might
be something you want to digest... but once evidence
is collected it usually sits in storage - damned near
forver.
The FBI has a number of system wide cross-checking protocols which you may not be aware of.
You almost need to file a report to see a report or
issue a report - redundancy. There is a great deal
of redundancy in the FBI system. Once an item is
seen it winds up in a report, and then more rrports
referring to previous report numbers, ad infinitum.
It would have been exceedingly difficult for anyone
to hide anything found at Reno - from what I
understand of the system and any issueof that
kind probably would have been picked up internally
in the FBI's own internal cross checking system, and people asked: "what about .............?"
I dont know why Cooper left the tie on the plane.
But after hours spent on the plane he left
evidence. And evidence within evidence. Judged
by current standards he could not help but leave evidence. He definately was there.
And his evidence and Cooper definately were not
elsewhere which includes some very specific places
and connections later examined.
I want to remind you that Jo Weber's claims for the
tie are her claims. The FBI has its own story for
the tie, and the FBI has the tie to know. There is
the difference, and the FBI has no responsibility whatever to explain to Jo what the differences
are, if she only knew.
quade 4
QuoteIt isnt a super large territory, as the crow flies.
Actually, it kinda is.
Let's say just for the sake of argument that we've NAILED the exit point and figured the winds all the way down to the ground in such a way that we have a circle of uncertainty 1 mile in radius. That is, I believe, WAY closer than is possible but just for the sake of argument let's say it is.
Assume he went in with a no pull and impacted the ground belly first . . . you're looking for 2 square yards of evidence out of 3.1415 square miles. A needle in a haystack 38 years after the fact that may have been eroded over and washed away to nothingness.
Assume he landed, was just fine and walked away. There's no reason to expect to find . . . anything . . . ever.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
georger 247
QuoteThe more I read this 'treatise' of yours above, the
more fascinated I get. You speak of the "the affinity between Tina and DB."
What "affinity" would that be?
The more I read this 'treatise' of yours above, the
more fascinated I get. You speak of the "the affinity between Tina and DB."
What "affinity" would that be?
Greetings Georger,
Whew, G., you sure have gotten your knickers in a twist, here.
As for the affinity I see between Tina and DB Cooper, here’s my thinking:
One, she describes him in favorable terms, i.e.: gentlemanly, courteous, etc, while Himmelsback saw him as a filthy-mouthed sleaze ball. What is the truth, here?
Two, she was his trusted courier.
Three, she was able to sit next to him for long periods of time, light cigarettes for him, and tried to make small talk, albeit, elicit information for the FBI. How many women would do that? I know if my mother was in Tina’s shoes, she would have told Danny Boy straight up:
“Light your own damn cigarettes, Mr. Hijack-and-Blow-Me-Up-Gangster-Man. If you’re such a Big Shot, light ‘em yourself, and I hope you choke on them. You shouldn’t be smoking anyway - its bad for your health, and it stinks, too!” (As far as I know, my mother has never missed an opportunity to educate anyone into proper virtue and behavior.)
Was Tina just being wise, and complying with a terrorist’s threat? Probably.
But, at the end, as I understand from written accounts, they waved to each other when she went back to the cockpit, and Danny headed towards destiny.
In general, I see several basic emotional responses a flight attendant might have had in Tina’s position. Cold, neutral compliance would be one, and which would be typical of many f.a.’s and probably viewed as acceptable behavior by NWA and Danny.
Veiled hostility, which would have been problematic.
Outright defiance, also probably not welcomed by others or Danny.
Gentle compliance, such as Tina’s, which I think would be the most preferred by anyone aboard 305. This sustained gentility in the face of enormous tension, with its effective non-threatening behavior and tone, I consider “affinity,” particularly when you add a wave, or any other form of social salutation.
So, with that said, Georger, how would you describe the relationship between Tina and DB Cooper?
I would describe Tina's behavior as completely professional toward Cooper and nothing more.
She wasn't sitting with Cooper by choice - she was
ordered to by chief pilot, Scott.
They tried to get her off the plane, but the plan/
opportunity just didnt develop as hoped. Hancock, the senior stew, talkd to Cooper directly and tried
to get Cooper to let Tina go. Hancock was almost
successful then Cooper changed his mind at the
last minute. Once outside Hancock and Schaffner
and Al Lee tried again to get Tina freed, but it
just didnt work. Finally Scott and Rat tried several
more things to get Tina forward and that didnt work.
The flight crew considered bailing enmasse at one point (they talked to Boeing about the method) but
they decided to stay because of Tina being held
against her will, in the back.
Tina Mucklow is an American hero, whether you
know it or not.
It was far more complciated and dynamic than
you describe or speculate it was. There was no psychological empathy or association between the two personalities - except for Tina obeying Scott's instructions and using her professionalism to create a facade of calm deliberation through which the hijacking could be processed and handled, as a tactical matter. Tina functioned in spite of the
threat to her's and everyone's lives and at one point she even begged Cooper not to blow them up (after he left the plane). There was never any sense of affinity between Tina and the hijacker and Cooper
himself undertstood that well, according to testimony.
This was no family picnic! This was not a case
of cousin Cooper showing up to simply pilfer
the cookie jar. This was a real life and death
struggle between total strangers which developed
right at the end of the flight day during the last
hours of flight (after a long day when people thought they would have Thanksgiving off).
I think if Tina had had a pistol in her pocket,
at some point Cooper would have been a dead
corpse laying on the floor of the airplane. That
is the level of affinity I see in this matter. By
all accounts Cooper never patted Tina down or checked her pockets, that I know of. It was
definately within Tina to do, if required.
Larry Carr was here and spoke to these issues -
its in the previous pages.
georger 247
QuoteQuoteIt isnt a super large territory, as the crow flies.
Actually, it kinda is.
Let's say just for the sake of argument that we've NAILED the exit point and figured the winds all the way down to the ground in such a way that we have a circle of uncertainty 1 mile in radius. That is, I believe, WAY closer than is possible but just for the sake of argument let's say it is.
Assume he went in with a no pull and impacted the ground belly first . . . you're looking for 2 square yards of evidence out of 3.1415 square miles. A needle in a haystack 38 years after the fact that may have been eroded over and washed away to nothingness.
Assume he landed, was just fine and walked away. There's no reason to expect to find . . . anything . . . ever.
I know. Then we have a beach party and say'
goodbye.
georger 247
QuoteThe more I read this 'treatise' of yours above, the
more fascinated I get. You speak of the "the affinity between Tina and DB."
What "affinity" would that be?
The more I read this 'treatise' of yours above, the
more fascinated I get. You speak of the "the affinity between Tina and DB."
What "affinity" would that be?
Greetings Georger,
Whew, G., you sure have gotten your knickers in a twist, here.
As for the affinity I see between Tina and DB Cooper, here’s my thinking:
One, she describes him in favorable terms, i.e.: gentlemanly, courteous, etc, while Himmelsback saw him as a filthy-mouthed sleaze ball. What is the truth, here?
Two, she was his trusted courier.
Three, she was able to sit next to him for long periods of time, light cigarettes for him, and tried to make small talk, albeit, elicit information for the FBI. How many women would do that? I know if my mother was in Tina’s shoes, she would have told Danny Boy straight up:
“Light your own damn cigarettes, Mr. Hijack-and-Blow-Me-Up-Gangster-Man. If you’re such a Big Shot, light ‘em yourself, and I hope you choke on them. You shouldn’t be smoking anyway - its bad for your health, and it stinks, too!” (As far as I know, my mother has never missed an opportunity to educate anyone into proper virtue and behavior.)
Was Tina just being wise, and complying with a terrorist’s threat? Probably.
But, at the end, as I understand from written accounts, they waved to each other when she went back to the cockpit, and Danny headed towards destiny.
Im going to go at this one more time and then probably give this up - there is no record of waving
that I am aware of. In fact Cooper told Tina to go
forward and not look back. As she went through and
was closing the curtain from the other side she paused
and looked back - that is the moment when she reports later she saw Cooper tying (something ..
the money bag?) around his waste with a rope.
There was no waving goodbye and good luck.
I see a lot of "projection" is everything above
including your choice of words (negative towards
Cooper). You have to remain neutral in these
matters and rely on facts alone, as best you can
assemble the facts.
You have to start with a few basic assumptions
regarding human behavior. One of those is: most
people know when they are in a dangerous
confrontational situation and their lives are at
risk. A few basic human emotions (autonomic)
come into play at the moment (hormone driven).
Fear. Alert. Panic (suppressed if trained). etc etc.
On the basis of those basic emotions one can
begin to imput what other behaviors or communications
mean. That is one place to start. (One can start
at several other levels also but the basic emotional
response-to-threat level is usually a reliable base
from which to interpret other behaviors).
Again, Tina was not Cooper's trusted courier. Tina
was behaving under orders fulfilling a role. Likewise
Cooper was not trusting of Tina. Cooper watched
her intently. He demanded she sit close to him so
he could control her if need be. He demonstrated
the bomb and said 'just touching these two wires and
boom' - the message was obvious (no funny stuff).
You seem to read into this options which never
existed for either party. Not only was there not
the time, but there wasn't enough reciprocal space
based on experience, in order to build a trust.
Overriding everything is the fact of the bomb and
nobody knows if Cooper had other weapons - he
did produce a knife.
There might have been an element of Tina wanting
to stay close to Cooper at certain times in order to
intervene, if she thought she could. She knew he
was a nutcase - she watched him flip out and turn childlike when the money was delivered and he opened the bag and saw $200,000. Tina stood there and
unemotionally watched.
Tina being in the back was also reassurance for the flight crew trying to focus on their duties. She was
their eyes and ears.
The most frightening time for everyone was perhaps
when Tina went forward and contact with Cooper was
lost. How could they know from that point what he
was going to do? That is why Rat eventually called
back to ask if everything was OK. But I am sure from the moment Tina went forward, everyone wanted Cooper off the plane and gone, asap, and the
transcripts show they cooperated in every way to
get that goal achieved.
I think Ive said more than enough. I hope some of
this will help your thoughts -
"Again, Tina was not Cooper's trusted courier. Tina
was behaving under orders fulfilling a role. Likewise
Cooper was not trusting of Tina. Cooper watched
her intently. He demanded she sit close to him so
he could control her if need be. He demonstrated
the bomb and said 'just touching these two wires and
boom' - the message was obvious (no funny stuff). "
Georger I agree with most all you have said about this, but this quote above struck somthing funny. If this was the case, how do you fit the piece of Cooper going to the lavatory and "going to be there awhile" per the transcripts fit into this? That whole piece to me is a wild card that does not fit to anything. Like i said earlier. When he is in the toilet on jump run and dropping the little brown jumpers, he does not have control of, Tina, Rat, Scott, the plane, or even the situation. I don't see it fitting.
Quade- is the snowman on a self imposed TO or is he in the penality box with Jerry? He is being too quiet.
was behaving under orders fulfilling a role. Likewise
Cooper was not trusting of Tina. Cooper watched
her intently. He demanded she sit close to him so
he could control her if need be. He demonstrated
the bomb and said 'just touching these two wires and
boom' - the message was obvious (no funny stuff). "
Georger I agree with most all you have said about this, but this quote above struck somthing funny. If this was the case, how do you fit the piece of Cooper going to the lavatory and "going to be there awhile" per the transcripts fit into this? That whole piece to me is a wild card that does not fit to anything. Like i said earlier. When he is in the toilet on jump run and dropping the little brown jumpers, he does not have control of, Tina, Rat, Scott, the plane, or even the situation. I don't see it fitting.
Quade- is the snowman on a self imposed TO or is he in the penality box with Jerry? He is being too quiet.
Orange1 0
QuoteAs for the affinity I see between Tina and DB Cooper, here’s my thinking:
One, she describes him in favorable terms, i.e.: gentlemanly, courteous, etc, while Himmelsback saw him as a filthy-mouthed sleaze ball. What is the truth, here?
Two, she was his trusted courier.
Three, she was able to sit next to him for long periods of time, light cigarettes for him, and tried to make small talk, albeit, elicit information for the FBI. How many women would do that? I know if my mother was in Tina’s shoes, she would have told Danny Boy straight up:
“Light your own damn cigarettes, Mr. Hijack-and-Blow-Me-Up-Gangster-Man. If you’re such a Big Shot, light ‘em yourself, and I hope you choke on them. You shouldn’t be smoking anyway - its bad for your health, and it stinks, too!” (As far as I know, my mother has never missed an opportunity to educate anyone into proper virtue and behavior.)
Was Tina just being wise, and complying with a terrorist’s threat? Probably.
Yes, probably.
1. Bruce, have you ever worked in an environment where you are faced with difficult clients daily and you have to be nice? This kind of thing was probably ingrained into Tina.
2. Your mom sounds great, but do you really think she would have said all that to someone she was scared might blow them up if he got angry? Or would she have been nice to him to make sure he stayed calm enough to not do anything stupid?
so, yes, 3 is indeed the most probable.
by the way you mentioned something about good-looking women bringing bibles to work... is it completely beyond your comprehension that a good-looking woman might be religious simply because of the way she was brought up? i went to a convent school in elementary school and have kept in touch with a number of the girls from there. a number of them are still practising, observant Catholics and some of them are really beautiful girls (well, women now). some of them rebelled against the church in their teenage years and then went back when they grew older, which is probably par for the course. it's pretty clear to me this is simply due to family background, reinforced by schooling, and nothing to do with abuse issues.
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
QuoteSomewhere on Sluggo's cite is a list of the agents who have been in charge of the Cooper case at one time or another. The list is long. The list might be something you want to digest... but once evidence is collected it usually sits in storage - damned near
forver.
Georger, how do you explain the missing cigarette butts and the paper sack?
==============
QuoteThe FBI has a number of system wide cross-checking protocols which you may not be aware of. You almost need to file a report to see a report or issue a report - redundancy. There is a great deal of redundancy in the FBI system. Once an item is seen it winds up in a report, and then more rrports referring to previous report numbers, ad infinitum. It would have been exceedingly difficult for anyone to hide anything found at Reno - from what I understand of the system and any issue of that kind probably would have been picked up internally in the FBI's own internal cross checking system, and people asked: "what about .............?"
Georger: With the above stating of FBI protocol - please explain the missing paper sack and most important the missing Cigarette butts.
Inside job or screw-up or negligence. Obviously the chain of custody of the evidence was broken or the FBI would know where that evidence is or what happened to it. Why is this not made public?
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Not only the missing butts, but the missing prints as well! Coop had to have left a whole slew of prints on that plane...the only thing I can think of is that maybe he had some of that rubber cement on the tips of his fingers as not to leave any prints. I think the Zodiac killer once confessed to doing that as to not leave any prints behind. Maybe that is where Coop got the idea. Same timeframe, same part of the country.
Jo, you should change your copyright to 2009.
Jo, you should change your copyright to 2009.
georger 247
Quote"Again, Tina was not Cooper's trusted courier. Tina
was behaving under orders fulfilling a role. Likewise
Cooper was not trusting of Tina. Cooper watched
her intently. He demanded she sit close to him so
he could control her if need be. He demonstrated
the bomb and said 'just touching these two wires and
boom' - the message was obvious (no funny stuff). "
Georger I agree with most all you have said about this, but this quote above struck somthing funny. If this was the case, how do you fit the piece of Cooper going to the lavatory and "going to be there awhile" per the transcripts fit into this? That whole piece to me is a wild card that does not fit to anything. Like i said earlier. When he is in the toilet on jump run and dropping the little brown jumpers, he does not have control of, Tina, Rat, Scott, the plane, or even the situation. I don't see it fitting.
Quade- is the snowman on a self imposed TO or is he in the penality box with Jerry? He is being too quiet.
I agree. The bathroom journey is a departure.
Presumably he went in there so as not to be noticed
as the passengers were deboarding, but also to
isolate himself from being tackled in the mix of
people milling around? If you recall we discussed
this months ago -
If I understand this correctly the back stairs had not
been lowered and they were using the front side door, so what's to prevent everyone from just filing off the plane leaving Cooper alone on the plane? Was he listening. Were stews nearby by command with Cooper communicating through the door?
In addition we have never heard one word about
forensic tests on the bathroom even though tests
were done - Ckret said so. Was the toilet emptied at SEA or between SEA and Reno, or at Reno, or when?
Same for sink water ?
And it is the one period where Cooper leaves everything unattended. I assume he was relying on
the bomb to keep people in line during his absence.
(Did any of the hijacker's in Snowmman's samples
hide in the bathroom?)
And its not exactly clear to me from the transcripts
when he came out. In fact the transcripts simply
mention the fact and say nothing further about it,
which to me is a little strange. Like 'our hijacker
is going on vacation ......... and now he is back'.
Resume scene 471 - take #7. All is normal. ???
Surely there is more to it?
And when Cooper emerges from the bathroom does
he take any special steps to see if people have been
armed or something has changed, in the meantime?
There is nothing to suggest that in the transcript.
Something doesnt add up unless this is a factual
account of Cooper lapsing (and others lapsing also
literally waiting on Cooper), and part of what makes
Ckret profile Cooper as an amateurish inexperienced
idiot relying on others to do the heavy lifting?
We need to nail down a timeline for the bathroom
adventure -
Orange1 0
QuoteNot only the missing butts, but the missing prints as well! Coop had to have left a whole slew of prints on that plane...the only thing I can think of is that maybe he had some of that rubber cement on the tips of his fingers as not to leave any prints. I think the Zodiac killer once confessed to doing that as to not leave any prints behind. Maybe that is where Coop got the idea. Same timeframe, same part of the country.
We don't know that any prints are "missing". Ckret said there are a bunch of prints that they have not been able to match to anyone. Should Cooper ever surface, it seems there is a good chance they would be able to match the prints. The only thing "missing" is a viable suspect whose prints match some of those on the plane. Weber was excluded on this basis, and I seem to recall Gossett was as well. (Talking of which ...anyone heard any news on the Cook book?)
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
georger 247
QuoteQuoteSomewhere on Sluggo's cite is a list of the agents who have been in charge of the Cooper case at one time or another. The list is long. The list might be something you want to digest... but once evidence is collected it usually sits in storage - damned near
forver.Georger, how do you explain the missing cigarette butts and the paper sack?
==============QuoteThe FBI has a number of system wide cross-checking protocols which you may not be aware of. You almost need to file a report to see a report or issue a report - redundancy. There is a great deal of redundancy in the FBI system. Once an item is seen it winds up in a report, and then more rrports referring to previous report numbers, ad infinitum. It would have been exceedingly difficult for anyone to hide anything found at Reno - from what I understand of the system and any issue of that kind probably would have been picked up internally in the FBI's own internal cross checking system, and people asked: "what about .............?"
Georger: With the above stating of FBI protocol - please explain the missing paper sack and most important the missing Cigarette butts.
Inside job or screw-up or negligence. Obviously the chain of custody of the evidence was broken or the FBI would know where that evidence is or what happened to it. Why is this not made public?
Answering both here -
I have no idea where the sack went - I wasnt there.
Did he still have the sack when he came outof the
bathroom? That isnt even clear, tome at least.
My understanding is, The butts were retrieved at Reno and went into custody there - some went to Quantico for testing but then came back to Reno. Then later there was some kind of problem accounting for the butts at Reno but then Reno said they still had them, and Ckret was trying to get them transferred up to Seattle. (I thought this is what Ckret said ... check back posts). I know nothing more than is printed
in past pages here -
Keep track that part of the dna/mtdna evidence
the FBI has may have come from swabs from the
butts, as opposed to the butts themselves, in
addition to tests on the tie and other tests.
If you were the FBI would you let such vital evidence out? No!
One irony of Jo's concern for the Raleigh cigarette
butts, since Jo says Duane smoked Raleigh, is it
may very well have been swabs from the butts or
the butts themselves and genetic evidence from
these, that ruled Duane out! So Jo's concern for
the missing butts may be pure irony on the one
hand, and a disappointment on the other -
We don't know that any prints are "missing". Ckret said there are a bunch of prints that they have not been able to match to anyone. Should Cooper ever surface, it seems there is a good chance they would be able to match the prints. The only thing "missing" is a viable suspect whose prints match some of those on the plane. Weber was excluded on this basis, and I seem to recall Gossett was as well. (Talking of which ...anyone heard any news on the Cook book?)
Good points Orange. It would be a real shame though if the FBI has not run the prints through the Crime database lately. One would tend to think this was not DBC's first crime. Speaking Gossett, I wonder if it would be possible to run the suspected DBC prints to all Military personal of the day. I will try and get an update on the Cook Book.
One irony of Jo's concern for the Raleigh cigarette
butts, since Jo says Duane smoked Raleigh, is it
may very well have been swabs from the butts or
the butts themselves and genetic evidence from
these, that ruled Duane out! So Jo's concern for
the missing butts may be pure irony on the one
hand, and a disappointment on the other -
Jo, Do you have any photo that would indicate Duane smoked Raleigh? I am sure that would help your cause.
I wonder what was in that bag...I mean who carries a paper bag on a plane anyway.
butts, since Jo says Duane smoked Raleigh, is it
may very well have been swabs from the butts or
the butts themselves and genetic evidence from
these, that ruled Duane out! So Jo's concern for
the missing butts may be pure irony on the one
hand, and a disappointment on the other -
Jo, Do you have any photo that would indicate Duane smoked Raleigh? I am sure that would help your cause.
I wonder what was in that bag...I mean who carries a paper bag on a plane anyway.
From Coast to Coast on 3-7-09.
In the first hour, attorney Galen Cook provided an update on his investigation of D.B. Cooper, the notorious hijacker who in 1971 parachuted from an airliner with a $200,000 ransom and vanished without a trace. Cook said he recently made contact with Florence Schaffner, one of the flight attendants aboard the hijacked aircraft and an eyewitness to the crime. Schaffner was sent photos of the D.B. Cooper suspect, Bill Gossett (see D.B. Cooper Photos), and told Cook that Gossett looks very much like the man she saw on the plane that day. Schaffner also revealed to Cook that D.B. Cooper had been wearing makeup to darken his skin.
Sounds like Schaffner was convinced DB was wearing makeup. No Accent, makeup to make himself look darker...Must be a Midwesterner eh Georger!
In the first hour, attorney Galen Cook provided an update on his investigation of D.B. Cooper, the notorious hijacker who in 1971 parachuted from an airliner with a $200,000 ransom and vanished without a trace. Cook said he recently made contact with Florence Schaffner, one of the flight attendants aboard the hijacked aircraft and an eyewitness to the crime. Schaffner was sent photos of the D.B. Cooper suspect, Bill Gossett (see D.B. Cooper Photos), and told Cook that Gossett looks very much like the man she saw on the plane that day. Schaffner also revealed to Cook that D.B. Cooper had been wearing makeup to darken his skin.
Sounds like Schaffner was convinced DB was wearing makeup. No Accent, makeup to make himself look darker...Must be a Midwesterner eh Georger!
Orange1 0
QuoteOne irony of Jo's concern for the Raleigh cigarette
butts, since Jo says Duane smoked Raleigh, is it
may very well have been swabs from the butts or
the butts themselves and genetic evidence from
these, that ruled Duane out! So Jo's concern for
the missing butts may be pure irony on the one
hand, and a disappointment on the other -
Disagree. Jo would just come up with another conspiratorial reason to dismiss the evidence.
Is anyone else finding the red even more irritating than all the bold and underlines?
Schlitz, it was Snow (I think) who did some research into who smoked what back then! Raleigh seemed to have been a pretty common brand.
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
Orange1 0
Quote
Good points Orange. It would be a real shame though if the FBI has not run the prints through the Crime database lately. One would tend to think this was not DBC's first crime. Speaking Gossett, I wonder if it would be possible to run the suspected DBC prints to all Military personal of the day. I will try and get an update on the Cook Book.
Some comments from Ckret during a 'conversation' with AggieDave (much missed here) & others last year:
1 June:
QuoteI have thought the same thing, wouldn't that be amzing, the answer right there this whole time and all we had to do was run the prints through AFIS (Automated Fingerprint Identification System). i don't know if any of the recovered prints are AFIS quality. I have been meaning to run a request through the lab for months now. I haven't had time to sit down and write the communication to the lab with the request.
I wish it was as easy as sending an email, hell we might actually get something done beside writting communications. This is a whole rant deserving a thread of its own. Have you ever dealt with a government agency and became frustrated at the process? It's no different for the "cogs" in the "machine."
June 19:
QuoteIt is my understanding from going through the file(may be wrong haven't checked) that the prints are not of AFIS quality. I have not found anyhting in the file that shows they were run through the system.
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
quade 4
QuoteQuade- is the snowman on a self imposed TO or is he in the penality box with Jerry? He is being too quiet.
Snowman is free to post if he chooses.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
QuoteQuoteQuade- is the snowman on a self imposed TO or is he in the penality box with Jerry? He is being too quiet.
Snowman is free to post if he chooses.
Maybe Snow is joining Sluggo. I see he made a post on his blog stating that he was no longer posting here...
georger 247
Sounds like Schaffner was convinced DB was wearing makeup. No Accent, makeup to make himself look darker...Must be a Midwesterner eh Georger!
Maybe even Hungarian.
Funny. I love it!
In Cooper's case however we know he didnt make it
to Afghanistan, or Turkistan, or Outre Mongolia. In
Cooper's case we have several fp options each
with its own DZ options. It isnt a super large
territory, as the crow flies. The variance in territories
is stark and perhaps telling. If he or his artifacts dont turn up in some farmer's field or a pasture,
and in all the more obvious places, then you have
to grudgingly turn to the more difficult scenarios,
and that involves the crestline break which spills
eastward or westward (Lewis vs Washougal), and
Jerry and others have been in both.
And I havent even covered all the options - just
considering some.
Thanks,
Georger
up in some farmer;s field
Share this post
Link to post
Share on other sites