snowmman 3
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georger 244
QuoteLooks like Snow is raising some fire power. Action, money, science. This is scary. Blogging and speculating is so much more comfortable and safe.
Billy, however, could just tell everyone to F off, and he seems to like to do just that. Unless he is arrested, he doesn't have to submit to any testing at all.
Being ruled out as Cooper gets him nothing. Maybe being a person of interest makes him more intriguing and in demand as an author and SOG media star.
I am sure his fingerprints are on file somewhere with Uncle Sam. DNA? Less certain.
Bet you Billy is reading this forum dispite his awowed disdain for all things Cooper. He has spent his whole life being informed about threats and covertly neutralizing them. If he was Cooper, he'd be figuring out how to corrupt the FBI's evidence too.
377
On the other hand, people could leave Bill alone
and look at Bradon who Bill suggested. I urge
caution in this. Great caution.
Carr is reading here -
snowmman 3
"WE ARE DEALING WITH A LIVING PERSON HERE
AND A WAR HERO ALSO."
I'd be interested in a summary of the background behind his hero status. I know his bio, and the purple hearts, and I've read his SF mission reports. But I've read a lot of SF mission reports, so hero vs non-hero gets muddied. It was a big war.
If you have more detail, post. I enjoy being more informed. I enjoy history. I was not of age for Vietnam. Telling me anything helps educate.
AND A WAR HERO ALSO."
I'd be interested in a summary of the background behind his hero status. I know his bio, and the purple hearts, and I've read his SF mission reports. But I've read a lot of SF mission reports, so hero vs non-hero gets muddied. It was a big war.
If you have more detail, post. I enjoy being more informed. I enjoy history. I was not of age for Vietnam. Telling me anything helps educate.
georger 244
Quote
Hey guys… I found out something that is really important! I found a conspiracy!
Did you know that Jo Weber and Billy Waugh live just 30.2 statute miles apart (by car).
How’s that for a conspiracy… if you don’t get what I mean… I’ll ‘splain it to you.
You see… Jo’s house is here and Billy’s house is there, just 30 miles away, and you know… that means… well, that means… WELL, I DON”T KNOW WHAT THE HELL THAT MEANS!
But it must be some kind of conspiracy… right…. Cousin Bruce, help me out here!
Just had a bad day at work and trying to lighten my mood. But they do live 30 miles apart.
PS: georger, I haven’t forgotten about you, I’m just going to turn in early. I’ll contact you tomorrow.
Funny. Snow funny too. Whenever is fine...
Guess I need to get my little magnifying glass out -
Ive wonder for five years where it went!
snowmman 3
"Carr is reading here"
So friggin what?
The only more useless person in the Cooper action, after Tom Kaye, is Larry Carr.
The phrase we used to use: "waste of space".
Alternate opinions can chime in and educate me. Provide data if available.
(edit) I just bolded a claim of a Green Beret (edit) attack. 2 head shots, assassination attempt claimed, of a dissident in Colorado, USA, in a prior post of mine talking about Wilson, that apparently was from Wilson's group of ...ahem recruits? If anyone wants to research that and provide detail, that would be interesting. It's amazing to see a claim of a "war hero" doing a non-approved assassination. Is the claim correct?
(edit) read some more. even after the trial, it's apparently still unclear.
So friggin what?
The only more useless person in the Cooper action, after Tom Kaye, is Larry Carr.
The phrase we used to use: "waste of space".
Alternate opinions can chime in and educate me. Provide data if available.
(edit) I just bolded a claim of a Green Beret (edit) attack. 2 head shots, assassination attempt claimed, of a dissident in Colorado, USA, in a prior post of mine talking about Wilson, that apparently was from Wilson's group of ...ahem recruits? If anyone wants to research that and provide detail, that would be interesting. It's amazing to see a claim of a "war hero" doing a non-approved assassination. Is the claim correct?
(edit) read some more. even after the trial, it's apparently still unclear.
Erroll 80
Quotedisagree.
Of course you do.
snowmman 3
QuoteQuotedisagree.
Of course you do.
Ah, I can tell you're a jumper. Nice data free posts.
Insult level, low.
snowmman 3
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,953172,00.html
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,925092,00.html
It was not a successful kill.
October 1980.
FBI traced the gun.
good detail here
http://books.google.com/books?id=sT73Ju1Za5IC&pg=PA43&lpg=PA43&dq=%22eugene+tafoya%22&source=bl&ots=XJQLIuLLYA&sig=QOXrDSB5fYkK0J1dnefe2L8_Ppk&hl=en&ei=jXtVSrW_C4yMsgOEiIX0AQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7
names
Faisal Zagallai: target, grad student, Colorado State University, Libyan.
Eugene Tafoya: the ex-Green Beret
Eugene was apparently convicted but got a small sentence.
people can research more.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,925092,00.html
It was not a successful kill.
October 1980.
FBI traced the gun.
good detail here
http://books.google.com/books?id=sT73Ju1Za5IC&pg=PA43&lpg=PA43&dq=%22eugene+tafoya%22&source=bl&ots=XJQLIuLLYA&sig=QOXrDSB5fYkK0J1dnefe2L8_Ppk&hl=en&ei=jXtVSrW_C4yMsgOEiIX0AQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7
names
Faisal Zagallai: target, grad student, Colorado State University, Libyan.
Eugene Tafoya: the ex-Green Beret
Eugene was apparently convicted but got a small sentence.
people can research more.
That name may have been bait or nothing more than age or rage. The conspiracy theory would be to look for something a little more exotic - like Branoski, Darnowski, Dabroski or Bradonsk.
Logically maybe he just missed a key or hit the wrong key. Perhaps he meant Bradsen or Bradson but more likely Braxon, Brason, Branson or Brasdon. This man is an expert in search, identify, verify and whatever comes after that. How much does the enemy know? His survival depended on this knowledge and how to use it...you can betcha that is exactly what he did when he threw that name out there.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
snowmman 3
QuoteThat name may have been bait or nothing more than age or rage. The conspiracy theory would be to look for something a little more exotic - like Branoski, Darnowski, Dabroski or Bradonsk.
Logically maybe he just missed a key or hit the wrong key. Perhaps he meant Bradsen or Bradson but more likely Braxon, Brason, Branson or Brasdon. This man is an expert in search, identify, verify and whatever comes after that. How much does the enemy know? His survival depended on this knowledge and how to use it...you can betcha that is exactly what he did when he threw that name out there.
You're right Jo.
A lot of heroes I know, if they have a suspect on a hijacking, they report it to random people like Sluggo.
Our hero forwarded the Dan Cooper comic book that was part of the FBI news release. So obviously he either looked on the web after Sluggo's email, or had looked before. In either case, if he had information and he was a hero etc, you would think (especially an old 80 year old guy) he would have emailed the local sheriff: FBI.
but no, he emails Sluggo monster.
Makes sense!
(edit) Another interesting thing maybe Billy can espouse on. He called the "action" "slick". That implies to me he assumes Cooper succeeded. He didn't say Cooper was a dork, say.
Why would he imply the action was "slick"..i.e. why did he admire it? You don't admire guys like Carr described..stupid dead guys.
377 22
If we take Billy at his word, he isn't Cooper but he has a good idea who is. Wonder how he ID'd his suspect? Why is he following the Cooper saga decades after the 'action?'
If Billy did do NORJACK, does it make any sense at all that he would do it undisguised? If he did do it undisguised, don't you think he would avoid photos subsequently? Isn't the whole point of special ops to avoid detection, identification, apprehension etc?
I think Billy certainly had the skills to do NORJACK successfully, but the records of his Nam exploits show careful contingency planning and preparation. Cooper seemed woefully unprepared for the jump let alone successful attachment of the money and survival on the ground. Containment and secure attachment of the money was key to a successful action. Would Billy just hope he could throw something together literally on the fly?
I can argue either side, but then I look at his photos and the FBI sketches and think how many guys with his record of very specialized combat HALO night jumps into very hostile terrain look so much like those Cooper sketches?
Whether he was Cooper or not BETCHA Billy new about the Air America 727 jumps.
The Wilson and Libya stuff snow posted has me reeling. Still trying to connect all the dots. Don't automatically assume that supplying a US enemy with weapons was unsanctioned and treasonous. Our own government did exactly that. Remember the Iran-Contra affair? Remember Oliver North? Remember Eugene Hassenfus?
377
If Billy did do NORJACK, does it make any sense at all that he would do it undisguised? If he did do it undisguised, don't you think he would avoid photos subsequently? Isn't the whole point of special ops to avoid detection, identification, apprehension etc?
I think Billy certainly had the skills to do NORJACK successfully, but the records of his Nam exploits show careful contingency planning and preparation. Cooper seemed woefully unprepared for the jump let alone successful attachment of the money and survival on the ground. Containment and secure attachment of the money was key to a successful action. Would Billy just hope he could throw something together literally on the fly?
I can argue either side, but then I look at his photos and the FBI sketches and think how many guys with his record of very specialized combat HALO night jumps into very hostile terrain look so much like those Cooper sketches?
Whether he was Cooper or not BETCHA Billy new about the Air America 727 jumps.
The Wilson and Libya stuff snow posted has me reeling. Still trying to connect all the dots. Don't automatically assume that supplying a US enemy with weapons was unsanctioned and treasonous. Our own government did exactly that. Remember the Iran-Contra affair? Remember Oliver North? Remember Eugene Hassenfus?
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Quote
Hey guys… I found out something that is really important! I found a conspiracy!
Did you know that Jo Weber and Billy Waugh live just 30.2 statute miles apart (by car).
How’s that for a conspiracy… if you don’t get what I mean… I’ll ‘splain it to you.
You see… Jo’s house is here and Billy’s house is there, just 30 miles away, and you know… that means… well, that means… WELL, I DON”T KNOW WHAT THE HELL THAT MEANS!
But it must be some kind of conspiracy… right…. Cousin Bruce, help me out here!
What? The Forum calls! Y'all need me? Wow!
Whew, catching my breath here. Let's see, the 28 bucks I just mailed to Billy for his book is going to Lutz, Florida. And Miss Jo is up around Pensacola-Fort Walton Beach, as far as I know (but Sluggo's been there in person, so, ...).
Err, Sluggo, I think you might have misplaced a decimal point or something, but the distance from your "here" to your "there" ain't 30 miles, it's 300-plus as I calculate in a quick google map search.
However, Bernie Rhodes is just down the street from Billy, in St Pete area - at least that's what Russ Calame says - but Bernie never picks up the phone, so who knows.
Nevertheless, when I saw Billy's address, a click did register in my brain and I was thinking.....and realizing that our Miss Jo is one sharp cookie for contacting Billy Waugh three years ago. I consider that pretty sharp sleuthing on her part.
While we're on the subject of conspiracies....Billy had serious head wounds that caused the NVA to consider him dead (and yet, he still got evac-d), and he spent two years or so at Walter Reed...yet there are no visible scars that seem to jump out at us, nor cognitive or physical impairments. Hmmm. Maybe he had a pretty sharp doc, and-or he really is a tough guy, or...the guys at Fort Detrick spent a little time with him, or... who the hell knows.
Cousin Bruce said:
Oh… Cousin Bruce… Cut me some slack. I’m a little more careful than that (and obviously you).
Example:
If you needed to confirm my employment with EG&G/URS/Lear Siegler you would contact my boss in Idaho Falls, ID and he would refer you to Morgantown, WV where the personnel records are administered.
If you wanted to visit me, you would have to come to Los Alamos, NM.
If you needed to raid my home to remove all my handguns and rifles, you would have to come to Ashford, AL.
My point… Billy is/was a contractor who is publishing a book. Lutz, FL might be his publisher’s location, his distributer’s location, or a super-secret mail drop.
But, the place he calls home is 30.2 miles from Jo’s house. It is in a gated community and I hear it’s a NICE place to live.
Sluggo
BTW: I slept well and feel much better today… now I have to go help make better WMD so CNN will have something to talk about (now that Jacko is dead). They won’t keep talking about him, now that he’s buried… will they?
Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum
QuoteWhew, catching my breath here. Let's see, the 28 bucks I just mailed to Billy for his book is going to Lutz, Florida. And Miss Jo is up around Pensacola-Fort Walton Beach, as far as I know (but Sluggo's been there in person, so, ...).
Oh… Cousin Bruce… Cut me some slack. I’m a little more careful than that (and obviously you).
Example:
If you needed to confirm my employment with EG&G/URS/Lear Siegler you would contact my boss in Idaho Falls, ID and he would refer you to Morgantown, WV where the personnel records are administered.
If you wanted to visit me, you would have to come to Los Alamos, NM.
If you needed to raid my home to remove all my handguns and rifles, you would have to come to Ashford, AL.
My point… Billy is/was a contractor who is publishing a book. Lutz, FL might be his publisher’s location, his distributer’s location, or a super-secret mail drop.
But, the place he calls home is 30.2 miles from Jo’s house. It is in a gated community and I hear it’s a NICE place to live.
Sluggo
BTW: I slept well and feel much better today… now I have to go help make better WMD so CNN will have something to talk about (now that Jacko is dead). They won’t keep talking about him, now that he’s buried… will they?
Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum
georger 244
Billy had serious head wounds that caused the NVA to consider him dead (and yet, he still got evac-d), and he spent two years or so at Walter Reed...yet there are no visible scars that seem to jump out at us,Hmmm.
Hmmm is right. You need glasses.
snowmman 3
377 said
"If he did do it undisguised, don't you think he would avoid photos subsequently?"
Need clarification, 377.
What photos are you talking about? most of the photos I posted are pre Nov 71. So those were done.
The recent photos were 2004ish? or so?
So I don't have any photos from '71 to '00, I don't think.
If anyone has photos from '71 to '00 or so, post, (or ID photos as such from previous postings).
It is fair to ask about Billy posting his own photos from pre-71.
But then again, he's selling books now.
I ordered a used copy of his book to read. They're pretty cheap online. Recycle!
(edit) Georger: Yes we can all move along now. Nothing to see here.
"If he did do it undisguised, don't you think he would avoid photos subsequently?"
Need clarification, 377.
What photos are you talking about? most of the photos I posted are pre Nov 71. So those were done.
The recent photos were 2004ish? or so?
So I don't have any photos from '71 to '00, I don't think.
If anyone has photos from '71 to '00 or so, post, (or ID photos as such from previous postings).
It is fair to ask about Billy posting his own photos from pre-71.
But then again, he's selling books now.
I ordered a used copy of his book to read. They're pretty cheap online. Recycle!
(edit) Georger: Yes we can all move along now. Nothing to see here.
snowmman 3
After Billy the hero quit in disgust at something at the end of '71 (retirement early in '72), He went to work supposedly for the Post Office.
Until 1977 when he went to work for Wilson and Libya shit.
In his book, he likes to tout his photo taking of Carlos the Jackal.
Whatever.
Does anyone out there know more about this Post Office shit?
Seems weird.
Until 1977 when he went to work for Wilson and Libya shit.
In his book, he likes to tout his photo taking of Carlos the Jackal.
Whatever.
Does anyone out there know more about this Post Office shit?
Seems weird.
georger 244
Quote377 said
"If he did do it undisguised, don't you think he would avoid photos subsequently?"
Need clarification, 377.
What photos are you talking about? most of the photos I posted are pre Nov 71. So those were done.
The recent photos were 2004ish? or so?
So I don't have any photos from '71 to '00, I don't think.
If anyone has photos from '71 to '00 or so, post, (or ID photos as such from previous postings).
It is fair to ask about Billy posting his own photos pre-71.
But then again, he's selling books now.
I ordered a used copy of his book to read. They're pretty cheap online. Recycle!
(edit) Georger: Yes we can all move along now. Nothing to see here.
I hate to pull rank here but are you actually telling
me you dont see the scars (cranial to traecheal) in
the photos you posted. I realise your expertise is in micro chips but I did five long years in an EMSOC (surgical out clinic) and surgical research ... Bruce did
his residency as an orderly in a psych facility he says,
just set aside for a moment the facts which lead to
the scars (would produce scars).
I will be landing on Veronka in a few minutes and
hope they have a Wendy's with some Jo, but in the
meantime I see scars as clear as .... Thors Helmet
in the Pleaides!
and I can see the scars
snowmman 3
Georger, the problem with trying to pull rank, is that it's sad to watch if it's totally ineffective.
I ignore you, and you ignore me. Remember?
I ignore you, and you ignore me. Remember?
georger 244
QuoteGeorger, the problem with trying to pull rank, is that it's sad to watch if it's totally ineffective.
I ignore you, and you ignore me. Remember?
Ignore all you want. Sitting next to Waugh you could
not fail to see his scars and would be grinding out fifty pages about them here, or their lack of existence and
how wounds do not produce scars in special circumstances ...
If Tina had seen them then you would want to discuss them.
That's just bad science!
Palin believes the world is 6000 years old and has the
Fish to prove it!
So 1/2 the forum will see scars, 1/2 will see no scars,
and we will call it MCNAMARA's syndrome.
Now: if Capt Kid turns up on some list and happens to
show a resemblance to some poster then we ignore the
eye patch and missing leg also? How far do we go?
Do we admit females? That takes us right back to Barb
and Cousin Bruce. Why then do we admit ANY physical
description at all for Cooper? Or even one person.
Cooper could have been two people switching positions
in and out of the Lav. That is why four chutes were
ordered!
I see -
I mentioned Wilson and Waugh in passing, but no one commented on it, so I'll pinpoint it here:
This was a snip from a PM:
I don't know if you're read enough about Wilson, and how he got convicted for selling plastic explosives to Libya. Note Wilson was fired by the CIA in 1971?
http://www.edwardjayepstein.com/archived/edwin.htm
According to IRS data released in July 1983, Wilson made at least $21.8 million from servicing Libya alone..... [convicted in 1983]..He spent the next 20 years in prison. Then, on October 29, 2003, Judge Lynn N. Hughes of Federal District Court in Texas threw out the 1983 conviction after finding that prosecutors knowingly used false testimony to undermine his defense. Judge Hughes found that the crucial CIA claim that Wilson had not worked for the organization since his dismissal in 1971 had been undermined by a CIA memorandum. This finding left opened the question of whether Wilson was a rogue operator at the time of his nefarious activities.
I've not read a lot, but supposedly Waugh was working for Wilson in Libya. Waugh wasn't convicted of anything though.
The debate was really how much was Wilson working for CIA, and how much was he running deals for his own reasons on the side.
Who knows what the truth is. Maybe Brucie needs to add a chapter for this? I've not really looked at this. Too complicated.
News in 2003 about the conviction overturn after twenty years:
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/10/29/1067233244563.html
background on Wilson, mentioning the Libya thing, plus Waugh. Notice how they flew the explosives in oil drilling mud on a jet. Funny. Remember we were talking about tanks on jets before.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_P._Wilson
In the 1970s, Wilson became involved in dealings with Libya. Wilson claims that a high ranking CIA official Theodore "Blond Ghost" Shackley asked him to go to Libya to keep an eye on Carlos the Jackal, the infamous terrorist, who was living there.[1] At the time, a strict sanctions regime was in place against Libya and the country was willing to pay a great deal for weapons and material. Wilson began conducting elaborate dealings and guns and military uniforms were smuggled into the country. Wilson also recruited a group of retired Green Berets – decorated Vietnam veteran Billy Waugh among them[3] – to go to Libya and train its military and intelligence officers. The Libyans used Wilson's provisions to advance their interests around the world, including training terrorist cells to build explosive devices inside radios. One cell trained by Wilson's operatives was the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine - General Command (PFLF-GC) under the command of a former Syrian Army Officer, Ahmad Jibril.[citation needed] Jibril was suspected of being behind the bombing of Pan Am 103 in Lockerbie, Scotland in 1988.[citation needed] In 1979, a gun that Wilson had arranged to be delivered to the Libyan embassy in Bonn was used to assassinate a prominent dissident. The next year, one of the Green Berets [ed.] shot another dissident in Colorado. Wilson states that he regrets these incidents and had no prior knowledge of them. He states that he was still working for the CIA and his supplying of weapon to the Libyans was an attempt to get close to them and gain valuable intelligence.
The most dramatic deal, and the one that brought Wilson to the attention from the U.S. government, was for some twenty tons of military grade C-4 plastic explosives.[4] This was a massive quantity that was equal to the entire US domestic stockpile.[1] Most of Wilson's connections were still under the impression that he was working for the CIA and a wide network in the United States supported his actions. The explosives were assembled by a California company and hidden in barrels of oil drilling mud. They were flown to Libya aboard a chartered jet.
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