DB Cooper

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

I don't know why I do it, but I continue to search for evidence of California state prison inmate smoke jumpers because Jo swears she saw a photo of some along with a short article/caption.

So far nothing and quite a bit of contrary evidence, though no definitive proof either way.

The mysterious disappearance of photo evidence seems to be a common theme in Jo's search for the truth.

=================

I wish I had been able to print that photo - when I saw it. It was my first few weeks with the computer in 2000. 3 men in front of a prison dressed in parachutes.

I do remember that they had volunteered and it was the beginning of a proposed program which did not happen.

Doug Pasternak tried to find it a few weeks later and it was gone POOF! I still have the emails of Doug and myself going back and forth regarding the pic. We gave up. I went back to the site where I thought I found it on and it was NOT there. I kept trying to retract my steps, but got no where. Tried everything I may have typed into search.

We had a weirder thing happen regarding a documentary tape. I was watching TV and saw something important and call my friend (he is a researcher). He catches the end of it. Then he orders the tape...spoke to a person whose name he made a record of. Copies of this tape were available - after a few wks he calls back and speaks to the same man - no record of the conversation and that tape was unavailable. What would you call that - low grade employees with bad memories or was he saying what he was instructed to say?

This is just 2 things out of other things NO LONGER available. I guess this is what is happens when you are investigating a 38 yr old crime. STRANGER still the FBI still QUOTES that I was told in 1998 by letter that they had investigated Duane L. Weber, but in early 2000 the date of which is in my phone records - the agent of record claimed Duane was never in McNeil and that he was NEVER in the Army. At that time the army record I had showed the date of activation, but the discharged date was unavailable. When the FBI gets their paws into it and before I went public in 2001 - it had been CHANGED. I have documented proof of that.

NOT one person can explain why DUANE's Military RECORD - came up CLASSIFIED - when the man at the VA office was pulling them. He tells me I had to fill out some forms for more information. I wanted the details - not a copy of what I took to them and that is all I got.

That day in the VA office was weird...I looked over and got a glance at the screen myself and that is what it said (classified). He had to go to a superior to get a special code and when he put that code in told me I was not listed as a beneficiary - I told him I was only 3 yrs old at that time so how could I be a beneficiary and that I did not meet my husband until 1977. It was at that moment he handed me the forms.

Make fun of me if you wish and mock me - but I have lived this for 14 yrs now - The recent things are what NO ONE ever expected me to find - they (who ever they are, thought all avenues had been closed), but this one slipped thru. It was a back-door approach and they didn't see it coming. Proving it - that is another story or it is just a story.

A man contacted me yrs ago - and I tossed what he said out - some of it was very akin to what Bruce has tooted. There were some truths in this man's story, but some of it fabricated. Now I am not so sure of how much was fabricated.

Had he not told me a lot of tales along with the truth and due to my diligence in feeding him untruths to test him - it might have gone some place at that time. (example - I say something false - he comes back with a story about that false hood). To protect myself I copied all of my emails to this man to someone I trusted who knew the truth from the false information I provided as bait.

He has contacted others and the FBI about his story which involves Duane Weber and his wife. Had he left the fantasy out, perhaps someone would have investigated his story. He told me over and over, that Richard McCoy was still alive and was a CIA agent ---- Well, there was a Richard McCoy and a Duane Webber who worked together on a case and were FBI and/or CIA, but they were NOT the Highjacker Richard McCoy or the Suspect Duane Weber. He pulled this was stories off the net to build his tale. Repeatedly told me McCoy was alive a boxer in CA and other times Canada - claiming to have spoke with him on the phone.

Yes, this man did indeed know Duane Weber because he placed Duane Weber in a location the ex-wife had forgot to mention. When I asked her about it she admitted they were running from the FBI and were only there about 6 wks so she didn't think it was important. (The only thing I was EVER able to verify about this man's knowledge of Duane.)
The FBI knows who this man is and he was investigated (so they said).

The updated story he tells includes the fabricated things I fed to him and which I can prove I fed to him and that were deliberate lies on my part...copied to a responsible journalist and reputable person.
I will say there are other parts of this man's story I cannot discount and his relationship to other individuals related to the hijacking.

One lie leads to another and so forth - therefore it causes doubt.
Reason why I try to remember to use theory or I thought or I think.
I know that in my rush to tell what I did know and the things Duane told me and what I learned from others I did not alway differentiate which did not help the credibility of what I have told. My biggest mistake was not going to WA in the very beginning - and confronting the FBI and taking them to the places Duane took me..and not depending on the FBI or others to get it right. If you want something done right - do it yourself or be involved.

In 1997 I could not afford to leave my job and studies to go to WA and I trusted the FBI to investigate. I no longer trust the FBI or our government.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

Jo said "3 men in front of a prison dressed in parachutes. "

Why would 3 guys be standing in front of a prison wearing parachutes? You wear parachutes near where you going to jump, not where you live.

I posted an article about that guy on furlough who returned by parachuting into the prison. That was funny.

(edit) Jo: remind me: why do we give a rat's ass about the FBI here? If I remember right, all they are is a bunch of guys who can bring charges against people for random reasons.

Why would that help us? Shouldn't we be brainstorming about how to get people that would be useful on the forum? Like fan belt inspectors?

[snowmman 3]

Too bad Jerry got taken out.
Collateral damage I guess.

First Ckret goes down, apparently jumping out a window.
Tom went AWOL.
Now Jerry.


Next time the lights go out, and we get them back on, and someone else is missing, I'm going to start freaking a little.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Too bad Jerry got taken out.
Collateral damage I guess.

First Ckret goes down, apparently jumping out a window.
Tom went AWOL.
Now Jerry.

Next time the lights go out, and we get them back on, and someone else is missing, I'm going to start freaking a little.

I didn't know he was OUT - just thought he was busy - since he had spoke of health problems.

If Kaye or whoever will provide me with the analysis of the the pollen or spore - I will started sending it to the different state agriculture depts. See if any of them can give us a clue. Horiculture professors would be a good source, feel the State Agr. Dept can help or at least refer us to who can in each state. These spores and pollen have to have DNA just like humans.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[JerryThomas 0]

Just made contact with the fazio's. Today I will have all info tomorrow. Am that you requested Geoger.Jerry

[JerryThomas 0]

377 Cooper was a Person with mininal Info No experience a strong desire for money. Little preparation. And just enough knowledge to get him into a situation for trouble and cause his death Bottom Line. Jerry Ps. I'm answering post made at least 10 threads ago. So Let's do this! If you have a question that you asked a week ago and you still want a answer ,Please ask it again. I will try to answer it tonight. If I have time I will try to answer more tommorrow. Post only for Tom Kay. Tom. Not good Revise. Jerry

[JerryThomas 0]

Hi Jo . Just been busy as you suspected. Health problem's ? Just Nerve damage neuropathy and cps. a Gun Shot wound's from combat injurie's . This happens in old age. And abuse to the body. The heart is still in the right Place. Although they Can't find my heart. Just a thumping gizzard. Jerry

[snowmman 3]

did a little more work on this.
I think I have a better fix on this Ted. B. Braden I mentioned.
I think he might be married with a wife 2 years younger.
small town ~1000 people.
overhead shot of the town attached.
I'm not sure if this is gentlemanly, but it's reasonably obscure.

I suspect Billy W. probably got a good chuckle at our flailing about, and passed it off as "no harm done". Thanks Billy, and thanks for moving us along.

Ted B. will probably laugh us off too.

So we know he wasn't on the FBI list. I wonder if the FBI is actively looking?

377: Should I leave the drone flying or call it back?
(this really is an overhead shot of the town I'm wondering about currently..and note it's not a cheap Google Earth overhead :)

[georger 247]

Quote

Just made contact with the fazio's. Today I will have all info tomorrow. Am that you requested Geoger.Jerry

Thanks Jerry. Glad we got to talk. I thought trying
to nail down the DATE the Fazios saw a debris field might be in order. It would seem a simple thing to do?

[snowmman 3]

I was looking at the distribution of ages in a small town of ~1000 people.

It's interesting, cause once you look at it, you realize there ain't that many people that are male, 80+. The flat distribution falls off quickly at 73 here, ends at 87 or so.

For instance, 17-18 80+ males in the attached distribution of 1000 residents.

This town may skew younger than some towns. not sure.

[snowmman 3]

was looking at this 1962 photo again.
The guy in the foreground left.
What kind of shoes do you think he's wearing?

It's an interesting thing to think about: how one perceives shoes.

[georger 247]

Quote

I was looking at the distribution of

Ive been looking at distributions also, namely
the Probability of a drop within a 4 mile x 1 foot
swath hitting water, anywhere along any version
of the flight path from SEA to below Portland. The
odds improve near the Columbia which is 600ft
wide at Portland, according to USGS.

I am assuming a 200mph ground speed or 293.3
ft/sec., Cooper cant see the ground and doesn't
know where he is and does not time his drop, and
a straight line wind vector from either 166 or 235
degrees enclosing a target zone approx 1 foot wide
x 4 miles in length which I believe is a reasonable
target space to calculate probabilities with. I believe
my calcs are in the ballpark and conservative.

(1) The odds of randomly hitting water anywhere
between SEA and south of Portland during any
second of flight travel are: 1:6,194,496.0

(2) the odds of randomly hitting water anywhere
between SEA and south of Portland during any
minute of flight travel are: 1:371,712,000.0

The flight covered far more land mass than water
target opportunity. A simple check of maps and
land mass confirms this.

Odds are only slightly improved near the Columbia
at: 1:6,018,516/sec and 1:361,152,000/min.

I calculate there is only a 1.37 second window
during which odds would have improved for Cooper
hitting the Columbia, during a brief interval when
flight #305 was near (south of) the Columbia.
Anywhere north of this very brief interval and the
odds revert to the random odds expressed above,
and it does not matter where #305 crossed the
Columbia, whether at Portland or at Troutdale.
Due to the limited area of the Columbia exposed
and the velocity of the aircraft, the time for a drop
intersecting the Columbia is brief.

The random odds of Cooper hitting water during
any random second or minute of flight travel are
small, even near the Columbia. There is only a
1.3 second interval or less in which odds would have improved for Cooper if his intention was to land on
or near water. And if you add up the total number of seconds or minutes of flight travel between SEA and Portland, the overall odds are extremely small -
there are better odds in a lottery!

One can always argue this was a 'one time only'
event, using an extended time scale. Arguments
are still subject to validation, regardless of form.

Any improvements in the above are invited and
would be welcomed.

[377 22]

Nice work Georger.

Your analysis ignores a factor which many skydivers, even educated ones who know better, swear is true and proven:

Parachutes are trouble magnets. They are drawn to hazards. Want to find a lake? Drop a parachute within a few miles of one. It will land dead center. They are also drawn to barbed wire, hanger buildings and parked cars.

Orange: is this also true in the Southern hemisphere?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Parachutes are trouble magnets. They are drawn to hazards. Want to find a lake? Drop a parachute within a few miles of one. It will land dead center. They are also drawn to barbed wire, hanger buildings and parked cars.

Orange: is this also true in the Southern hemisphere?

377

Yes, but you left mock-ups out of your list

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[georger 247]

Quote

Nice work Georger.

Your analysis ignores a factor which many skydivers, even educated ones who know better, swear is true and proven:

Parachutes are trouble magnets. They are drawn to hazards. Want to find a lake? Drop a parachute within a few miles of one. It will land dead center. They are also drawn to barbed wire, hanger buildings and parked cars.

Orange: is this also true in the Southern hemisphere?

377

and except when standing near power lines or metal buildings or bodies of water, cows
align themselves with the magnetic poles, except on Nov 13th at Midnight UTC.

[georger 247]

Quote

Quote

Parachutes are trouble magnets. They are drawn to hazards. Want to find a lake? Drop a parachute within a few miles of one. It will land dead center. They are also drawn to barbed wire, hanger buildings and parked cars.

Orange: is this also true in the Southern hemisphere?

377

Yes, but you left mock-ups out of your list

I think you two are confusing Murphy's Law with
statistics. One is based on the psychology of
(some) people, the other based on randomly
distributed occurrence. Is there a difference?
Yes. One is biased. The other is biased in favour
of the House! Houses do not parachute.

[snowmman 3]

good numbers georger.

I did a rough calc a while ago, where I assumed Cooper could spot the lights of vancouver, and react within a certain amount of time.
I think that would make it easier to hit the columbia, (which would have been an undesired goal)

but your premises all seem sound.

I don't know if Jerry would disagree. Jerry does want Cooper in the water. Why not the Columbia? Jerry?

[snowmman 3]

In today's skydiving scene, I think if you modelled it, the most likely thing to hit is another skydiver. Because of the way loads are done, and a common endpoint (DZ).

(edit) Kind of like how most car accidents, you hit another car? Actually I don't know if that's true. Be interesting to check.

(edit) To make reparations for that long-ago class, we start with Kant:
"Even philosophers will praise war as ennobling mankind, forgetting the Greek who said: 'War is bad in that it begets more evil than it kills.'"

and

"“Happiness is not an ideal of reason but of imagination”

[snowmman 3]

I've been looking thru records and stuff.

And it just sunk in, after looking at them, that if this Ted B. Braden is the same guy we're talking about, the guy who Duncan thought was an early pioneer in Army HALO (remember Braden did do competitions..this was early relative to when Golden Knights was still coming together..they were '59 or '61 depending on what you use)...


well if this guy is that Ted B. Braden, he may need a helping hand from another SF vet, rather than hassles from us.

Reminds me, I downloaded a copy of the 50 year anniversary vid the Golden Knights did..has some historical footage that is interesting. The color is washed out. and the army site only has a small viewer. I think I'm going to fix it up and put it on youtube so you can see it better. Nice historical context.

Funny: it's army, and they've got some 60's tunes as background..

[snowmman 3]

okay, just got out of a standup JCS meeting, and they ok'ed the upload.

Too hard to deal with editting .flv files to improve the washed out old film sequences, but I thought the vid was interesting.

I suspect you jumpers might like some of the old sequences.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhjY5OmGPAU

there's a quick clip of 377 in the tunnel at Fort Bragg at 3:48. He's the one that's messing up. :)

[snowmman 3]

I'm not sure where these are from or when, but they're in the same vein as the article he wrote in the '60s. some more thoughts from him, so thought worth posting for context. I find it fascinating that he worked with Braden in the Leaping Lena program.

DONALD DUNCAN

"Heading up operations of a new, very hush-hush project called Delta -- a name that lives to this day -- I had to pour over MACV intelligence reports almost daily; both those based on information collected by us and those based on two other similar operations. I was absolutely astounded. It was bullshit. Pure fabrication. Routine fabrication. An example? OK. I think a "typical" mission into Tay Ninh province to check out reported VC movement in and around a Michelin rubber plantation makes the point.

We went in at night and reached the plantation perimeter mid-morning where we found well-prepared trenchworks, complete with mortars, machine guns, ammo -- but no people! Feeling as naked as jaybirds, we stood up, took deep breaths, deployed across the opening, stepped across the trenches and proceeded through the rubber trees toward the center of the plantation. Just short of the center we were stopped by the sound of voices. Sgt. Minh and I crept forward and involuntarily stepped back in shock. There was at least a battalion of VC grouped around three individuals, one of whom was talking loudly -- a troop "education/orientation" session (we called it TI&E). I radioed to have our VN Airborne troops drop in at three designated sites outside the perimeter, then sat back and waited. The next goddamn thing we knew the whole world exploded on us, and for 12 straight hours the area was under constant air bombardment -- with us there! What went wrong? Where were the troops? We had Viet Cong running blindly past us, over us and/or trying to bury themselves next to us in the dark.

Miraculously we survived to get to an LZ the next day and as miraculously our VN chopper again got us out amidst .50 caliber fire; we were back at Ton Son Nut. There we were handed a report -- already released to the press -- telling how many KIAs there were (in the hundreds). I challenged the report inasmuch as we were the only people on the ground and we didn't have a clue how many had been killed. We were too busy scrambling to get our asses to a pick-up point, and there were too many live bodies in the area to be walking around counting dead ones. What I got in response was a bunch of prop-wash about grids and tons of bombs per grid factored by numbers of people in each grid equals x-number of KIAs. When I pointed out that ten of us moved from one grid to another and were not killed, it was ignored -- and no apology for overriding our orders, for not informing us or for "dropping," knowing we were in one of those grids.

From that day I grabbed and analyzed every report I could get my hands on having anything to do with intelligence and policy. It was obvious we had no policy and intelligence was whatever MACV said it was. We had reports of "... and four VC water buffalo killed," and marines shooting at "VC sounds" and reporting KIA. Instead of cleaning up corruption in the country, we became the biggest contributors to it. We supported the worst elements in the country. We had nothing to win. The whole thing was a lie.

I signed on for a second hitch in Vietnam, but I couldn't bring the same enthusiasm to it. Oh, I was being offered things -- a direct commission to captain, a Silver Star and Legion of Merit ... All heady stuff for a career soldier. But the idealism and purpose of my being a "Green Beret" and being in Vietnam was confuted at every turn. The administration and the Generals were deceiving the American people and betraying its troops. After 10 1/2 years in the U.S. Army, in the summer of '65, I quietly put in my papers for discharge. Once back in the land of the Big PX I was determined to get out the word."

[snowmman 3]

This was posted recently at commondreams.org, in response to an article. This guy is a vet. Note that John Prados was also the author of "The Blood Road" which I referenced before.

"At the time that I was there I was not even aware that there was such a thing as the GI movement that was taking place during that time period. But those in the military today have no such excuse since they should be well aware ot the GI rebellion that took place during my and your era, i.e. the Vietnam conflict.

They have available to them the powerful documentary Sir! No Sir! As former Green Beret Donald Duncan states in the film: "I was doing it right but I wasn't doing right."

Duncan also wrote an article in Ramparts magazine in the 1960s entitled "It was all a lie!" as well as many books which describe the movement such as David Cortright's classic work "Soldiers in Revolt: GI Resistance During the Vietnam War" as well as "Joe Allen's Vietnam: The [Last] War the U.S. Lost". John Prados's latest work and perhaps his magnum opus "Vietnam: The History of an Unwinnable War-1945-1975" also is sprinkled with details concerning those in the military who protested the actions of their imperial government.

A more current book that soldiers can draw inspiration from is Peter Laufer's fine and moving work "Mission Rejected: U.S. Soldiers Who Say NO to Iraq". As Mathias Chiroux observes, that title can also include people like Chiroux who recognize that Obama's so-called good war is anything but good as evidenced by the U.S. air force bombing innocent Afghan civilians. It should also be noted that the Pakistanis are also feeling the brunt of Obama's militarism as drone missiles are raining down upon them by those compliant members of the United States military.

U.S. soldiers-say NO to the American empire."

[JerryThomas 0]

Georger. True it realy is. However anything that you or I post has to be factual . No flaws or second guesing can be allowed.This is why my post has to be backed up with documintation or background research for ,Proof! It does help.However! if you have solid Witnesses, or Clout.Then verify any answer for question's with Knowledge of any given subject. Jerry

[snowmman 3]

You can see Duncan (recent) in this new documentary

short trailer here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jULC3SCX9wE
(edit)
12 minute trailer here: (worth watching! if you got interested in the first clip!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDk6Qal2DCI

"Obedience to the law is freedom" (sign on US Army stockade, shown in the documentary)

regardless of one's opinion, it does help in reminding one of the context back then. (sure it's biased...but I think I explore all edges of opinion)

The documentary has a website here
http://www.sirnosir.com

Bertolt Brecht poem: "From A German War Primer"

http://www.poetryconnection.net/poets/Bertolt_Brecht/5609

"General, your tank is a powerful vehicle
It smashes down forests and crushes a hundred men.
But it has one defect:
It needs a driver.

General, your bomber is powerful.
It flies faster than a storm and carries more than an elephant.
But it has one defect:
It needs a mechanic.

General, man is very useful.
He can fly and he can kill.
But he has one defect:
He can think."

[JerryThomas 0]

Geoger : 3 days is your answer. Brian found the money on Feb 10 Ralph met with Brians father on the mourning of Feb 12, Local law enforcement and the FBI was At Tina's Bar that afternoon.This is when the debris field was first seen by the law enforcement agencie's and the Fazio.s. Counting the day of the find it is 3 days . Otherwise you could say 2 days.Jerry