DB Cooper

[JerryThomas 0]

Snowmman I'm not sure but was jim the one that published a book covering Fire basis in Nam. and there names.Jerry

[JerryThomas 0]

Snowmman in the time frame you have posted . South vietnam, alies was Iran ,they suplied doctor's. The french and australians. Supplied combat suport. The US, supplied combat adviser's.Jerry

[skyjack71 0]

There was a documentary tonight on Nature - I am going to order the film just so I can contact these people.

There is a NATIONAL Data Base on Spores and Pollen. I couldn't catch the name of the professor so I am ordering this documentary.

Regarding the diatoms was another professor - and he is able to test for the diatoms and tell you what water and which river it has been in.

There was much more discussed in this film but these are the things that supposedly the team jumped on in Wa - but none of the men were contacted that I am aware of. The FBI and Kaye and Georger talk about Pollen or spores at the time and yet NO ONE DEMANDED this be checked against the National Data base. Why wasn't the diatoms addressed more aggressively?

I would like to know if the TEAM suggested this these tests to the FBI and if the FBI declined or shoo shooed it. If they paid 50K to Tom then why would they not do the tests he recommended?

If those spores or pollen could be matched to those in MO, Al, GA and NC - there are severa; suspect over the yrs located in this area - are you guys aware of that? The thread in that knife needs to addressed as does the knife itself. In the handle is a hole all the way thru it - a small hole. It was obviously buried at one time. I will let a private lab have this, but the FBI will get it over my dead body.

Sluggo didn't think it was important, but right now I do - the cord and the hole in the handle. That hole could have held a cord tied to the person or his belt to keep it from being lost in the jump.

Sluggo also thought the Soledad on the San Quentin record was a prison for harden criminal in NY.
But it was in CA. and there was a prison there...Duane was sent there for ONE day.

Also in this program tonight - they talked about Felons and Guns. A felon with possession of a gun faces a very long stay in prison even if he commited no other crime. WOULD someone please explain to me why Duane Weber could be arrested in 1975 or 1976 with a gun in a holster and not have gone back to prison.

He is again arrested in Escambia county with a 38 in a chest holster and with split bullets ( he had scored the bullet himself). This happend in 1990.

Things that have been made light of seem to present RED lights and sirens and no one cares. I called a friend of mine in the legal field and he told me - there was NO way he could have avoided prison in 1976 or 1990 unless there were extenuating circumstances such as working undercover or having been removed from the system - intentionally.

Being removed from the system makes more sense than his undercover remark - because the FBI certainly has gone to great extents to be sure I don't see his prison records. Remember they claimed in 2000 he was never in McNeil and to this day I have not seen the Jefferson record except what is available on-line. Also since Carr was unaware that before they shut me down that certain things had already been acquired and Carr referred to an AKA as just another spelling - NOT TRUE.

Do the Spore or pollen tests! I also need to find a PRIVATE lab for the knife - perferrable one I can personally deliver it to. I don't have access to goverment money, but I have a strong reason to get this DONE now and not next yr or the next.

Let me assure you I never took money - not one penny and all I ever asked was that these companies actually investigate what the FBI didn't. Only one did and they flew me to WA - I did find answers although after the crew had left - I did find the areas duane took me to.. This same company dug up Duane's dog and found him after locals who were helping couldn't find him.

Most of the programs where interested in sensationalism and not finding the truth. I expect Kaye realizes this now. If the paid him 50K why didn't they do the things he required of them? The FBI's participation in this was done to bury Cooper. The forces that be might think they can control the media - but that is getting ready to change. The government will NEVER bury Cooper.

Want to know something ODD? In Weber's family one of the long time family members named their child Cooper.
Related only by marriage and not direct descendents. I had known this for yrs and Cooper is a nice first name.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[BruceSmith 3]

An update:

1. Jim Hetrick is at the top of my contact list.

2. I'm circing the wagons around Ellsworth and White Haven PA, calling in some Back East help, including an ex to help scout things out.

3. Theodore M, in my judgement, was a long-shot, not a pot-shot. Uncommon first name, plus same state. That was good enough for me to make a call. That said, I do agree it is important to tred carefully with inquiries. Stomping around with the excitment of the hunt can hurt some innocent people. I recommend we have a policy here of not posting phone numbers, home addresses or other personal contact information, and rather, save it for PMs, unless unusual circmstances require a further cast of the net.

[snowmman 3]

I'm close to the end of "SOG" and have some notes on things that would be worth posting, but I'm starting to think you guys are lost in the details.

-It's surprising to see the relatively low number of freefall jumps most of the team members had before the Vietnam combat halo jumps/training. Storter had 0, and led the first successful team mostly because he bragged he could do it while drinking the night before. Really. That's what happened. He said "What?" when he got called on it the next day with approval..but went ahead and did it. (after training) (and was the first real success).

-Storter's team transitioned to using Paracommanders. There was one more HALO after that (if you ignore 2 ARVN-only jumps later). I guess it's reasonable to assume that the last one used Paracommanders also, then.

-They had the radio location devices we discussed, although they seemed to say they worked. Except not waterproof.

-Looking thru the claimed numbers of freefall jumps, it's possible that Braden was way more experienced than any of the people that jumped in the vietnam combat halo jumps.

-more than one of the vietnam combat halos were in rain.

-The Larry Manes, Noel Gast, Robert Castillo and John Trantanella jump was in really really stormy weather. Manes thought it would be aborted, but jumpmaster Norbury sent them out.

-The toe popper that exploded in Gast's rucksack on the jump: Plaster says it went off due to the rapid change in atmospheric pressure. I had read/posted accounts that implied it was because Gast f*ed up and jumped with the top-popper activated. It appears that wasn't the case. I apologize to Gast. He was severely injured.

-I'm really impressed with Plaster's effort to capture history for readers. He did a very fine job for something that must have been difficult to capture well. While some may say his method of "telling stories" isn't objective enough...the reality for any subculture where history is passed without the written word: it's all about stories. That's how humans remember.

Remember that for 10-20 years, the SOG guys only had these stories in their heads. The official SOG files were burned in the early 70s. They were told to keep things secret.

The fact that the SF guys did tell the stories, to pass critical operational knowledge, lessons learned, ...to remember those who had fallen. It's very touching, and very human.

Plaster did good.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Snowmman in the time frame you have posted . South vietnam, alies was Iran ,they suplied doctor's. The french and australians. Supplied combat suport. The US, supplied combat adviser's.Jerry

Yeah, I had some numbers on different countries with people in Vietnam. It wasn't just US.

There's another guy tracking which US military groups were in Laos.
It wasn't just Air America. Basically everyone had some number of people in Laos. (when no one was supposed to have anyone)

The whole fake "Laos Neutrality" thing, and the political issues there, and in Cambodia, and how the NVA exploited that, seems like one of the key reasons why the Vietnam war was (tactically at least) unwinnable. There were a lot of reasons I guess.
Geez, Laos and Cambodia have their own complicated political, and sad, stories.

Man, what a jumble of crap for any Vietnam vet to digest when rationalizing one's experience. It would seem the only sane thing would be to close it off and move forward with your life. Feel good when you see your old buddies.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Jo,

I’m disappointed with the post (from you) I found this morning.

Soledad
I told you that I remembered something major (enough to make the evening news) happening at Soledad while I was living in CA. I told you that I couldn’t remember if it was in Upstate NY or CA.

If knowing about Soledad (Salinas Valley State Prison) was so frigging important, why not enter “Soledad Prison” in your browser? You would find a Wikipedia article that would tell you:

“Also located near Soledad is the Salinas Valley State Prison, a maximum security penal institution which includes a 64 bed inpatient psychiatric program primarily servicing high security inmates who have a major mental disorder that has diminished their ability to function within the prison environment. Adjacent to it is the medium security Correctional Training Facility.”

Several times lately you have posted that I thought Soledad was a maximum security prison in NY. Since you have repeated this many times, I assume it has some importance to you that I just don’t understand. Is it your way of saying I do not know anything about prisons? (Guilty, I don’t focus much on prisons.) Is it your way of saying that the guy you once trusted may be part of the “BIG conspiracy” against you and your efforts to prove Duane Weber (John Collins) was D.B. Cooper? Exactly why is it that this is “an issue” with you?

The Knife
The knife I saw was a typical folding pocket knife (of the Boy Scout variety) with some lint in the folding slot that was EXACTLY like the lint found in the knife I was carrying in my pocket at the time. This led me to think the knife had little or no value as evidence. I did not state this to you, because I did not want to be unkind and sound like I was saying; “You old fool, that’s just pocket lint!” Maybe, I should have been more honest and forthright. It’s just not my nature.

Fees and Compensation
If you or anyone else honestly believes the rumor that is circulating that Tom Kaye received $50,000 for his part in Nat-Geo’s “The Skyjacker That Got Away” I truly feel sorry for you. If you just look at the production budget, the sum of $50,000 is laughable. A rumor that Tom Kaye received $5000 would maybe be believable.

If you (or anyone else) buy into the rumor that I received $$$ for my “assistance” in the films production, you really should seek professional help… you have drifted over the edge.

Jo’s Perceptions
When I see your post about things I have said, decisions I have made, and conversations we (you and I) have had, I realize that your perception is VERY different from mine. This casts doubt on all the other things you have told me. If I was starting over, looking into Duane’s past, I would be skeptical of everything you said in cases where you did not have evidence (like Pasternak’s research).

Jo… you have a very interesting story when it comes to having been married to Duane. You have a LOT of evidence (mostly undisclosed) about what an unusual character Duane was. If I had time, I would research some of Duane’s past (like his Chemical and Biological Warfare experience at Camp Siebert in Gadsden, AL)* * and try to figure out some of the things he was “into”. But, alas I don’t have the time.

You are a dear person, I (still) consider you my friend, I wish only good things for you. But, you have let the trolls, hucksters, devils, and just plain cruel SOBs of this world drive you to the brink of madness. This madness will cause you to drive away the people who want to help you the most. Don’t slide over the edge.

I have posted here a dozen (or so) times; “Those that know, aren’t talking and those that are talking, don’t know.” Let me say that (to you specifically) in another way. SHUT UP! THE INVESTIGATION IS ONGOING, THE PEOPLE YOU BADGER CONSTANTLY (by berating their efforts) ARE SEEKING THE TRUTH. WHEN THE TIME COMES, YOU’LL KNOW WHAT THEY KNOW… NOT BEFORE!!!

The results of the investigation may point to Duane, or not. I’m still “open minded” about Duane, but I’m “open minded” about several other suspects also. The current approach is not find a suspect and prove that the suspect was Cooper, but rather look at the (small quantity of) evidence and see where (to whom) it points.

* * I was concerned that the mention of Camp Siebert might be confidential, but you mentioned it in posts #3703 and #1120.

Web Page
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NORJAK Forum

[snowmman 3]

Found a picture of the camp that TW painted the watercolors from.

Attached.

It's possible Hoffa is buried there?

(edit) Re: sliding over the edge...Which side of the edge is preferable, and why? Weird how skydiving is about going over the edge (doorway).

(edit) SHUT UP! THE INVESTIGATION IS NOT ONGOING!

The truth will be as I define it. On the 8th day I will rest.

[snowmman 3]

Do you remember the movie "Clerks"?
It was filmed in 1994, in b/w, with a budget of only $27,000
Here's a trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNd8nvnmhyM

(edit) did you notice how the trailer has them giving (at 0:21) the quote about how "things would be great if it wasn't for the customers"...Funny thread back reference!


That leads to a true story from last year.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Fort_Dix_attack_plot

6 men charged in plot to attack US Fort Dix
9 May 2007

FORT DIX, New Jersey - Six foreign-born Muslims were arrested and accused of plotting to attack an Army post in Fort Dix and slaughter scores of US soldiers a scheme the FBI says was foiled when the men asked a store clerk to copy a video of them firing assault weapons and screaming in Arabic about jihad, or holy war.

[snowmman 3]

http://www.amazon.com/review/R3JCJAPMVCF89H

A Great Book about a Great Story, December 29, 2003
By Matthew S. Beyeler

I am now reading this book for the second time, having just recently discovered it. I cannot recommend this book enough.

In October 1970, as a young wet-behind-the-ears 1LT, I arrived at CCC, Kontum. Within two months I was serving under CPT Bob Howard as the XO of his Recon Company. When Bob left to go to DC to recieve his Medal of Honor, I then served under CPT Jim Storter. [Ed. interestingly Storter was Commander when he led the 4th HALO jump. Talk about leading by example!!]

As XO, I had the opportunity to join an RT from time to time on a mission as a "straphanger," or extra US. I identify most strongly with RT Montana, whose One-Zero was SSG Mike Sheppard, One-One was SGT Mike Bently, and One-Two was MSG Charles Behler.

What an amazing group of soldiers I served with.
I remember John Plaster, Fred Krupa, David Mixter, Walter Shumate, and many more.

There is no exageration in this book, these soldiers performed extremely hairy recon missions in the face of unbelievable odds, again and again.

What really astounded me was reading stories about guys I had served with that I did not know, they themselves did not brag about their exploits at all.

Neither McCarley (of Operation Tailwind fame), nor Miller, nor Howard, nor Plaster ever bragged about one mission.

They were the consumate professional soldiers who "marched to the sound of the guns." Some were new to Special Forces, like Miller, and some were ex-SF NCO "old hands" with years of SF tours under their belts, like Howard, McCarley and Storter.

John Plaster has done an excellent job of giving both the "big picture" along with so many individual stories. I had no idea how comprehensive and effective (and costly in soldiers lives) the SOG mission was overall. I am recommending this book to everyone I know.

Regarding the "mole" in Saigon, I have always suspected treachery in the deaths of SSG Mixter and Dai-uy (CPT) Krupa.

The NVA were waiting in force when Mixter's RT and Krupa's Hatchet Force company were inserted. The NVA knew exactly when and where to expect them! Shame on the higher-ups at SOG for not withholding the teams/companies exact map grid coordinates from our ARVN "allies."

This book is a literate, exciting and highly informative account of one of the most incredible groups of solders, ever.

Well done, John!

[snowmman 3]

This article from http://www.ultimatesniper.com/Docs/30.PDF is a good close match to what Plaster wrote about Mad Dog Shriver in "SOG"

Mad Dog's story is worth trying to understand. Apparently from Sacramento, CA.
Our little forum here means nothing.
But Mad Dog deserves a post.
Fuck the length.
Picture attached.
Details about his eyes, his dog, about how he wanted to leave but couldn't figure how to, grab at me. RIP Mad Dog.

THE UNTOLD TRUE STORY OF MAD DOG SHRIVER:
Mad Dog led dozens of covert missions into Laos & Cambodia until his luck ran out.

There undoubtedly was not a single recon man in SOG more accomplished or renowned than Mad Dog Shriver.

Mad Dog! In the late 1960s, no Special Forces trooper at Ft. Bragg even breathed those top secret letters, "S-O-G," but everyone had heard of the legendary Studies and Observations Group Green Beret recon team leader, Sergeant First Class Jerry Shriver, dubbed a "mad dog" by Radio Hanoi. It was Jerry Shriver who'd spoken the most famous rejoinder in SOG history, radioing his superiors not to worry that NVA forces had encircled his tiny team. "No, no," he explained, "I've got 'em right where I want 'em -- surrounded from the inside."

Fully decked out, Mad Dog was a walking arsenal with an imposing array of sawed-off shotgun or suppressed submachine gun, pistols, knives and grenades. "He looked like Rambo," First Sergeant Billy Greenwood thought. Blond, tall and thin, Shriver's face bore chiseled features around piercing blue eyes. "There was no soul in the eyes, no emotion," thought SOG Captain Bill O'Rourke. "They were just eyes."

By early 1969, Shriver was well into his third continuous year in SOG, leading top secret intelligence gathering teams deep into the enemy's clandestine Cambodian sanctuaries where he'd teased death scores of times. Unknown to him, however, forces beyond his control at the highest levels of government in Hanoi and Washington were steering his fate.

The Strategic Picture Every few weeks of early 1969, the docks at Cambodia's seaport of Sihanoukville bustled with East European ships offloading to long lines of Hak Ly Trucking Company lorries. Though ostensibly owned by a Chinese businessman, the Hak Ly Company's true operator was North Vietnam's Trinh Sat intelligence service. The trucks' clandestine cargo of rockets, smallarms ammunition and mortar rounds rolled overnight to the heavily jungled frontier of Kampong Cham Province just three miles from the border with South Vietnam, a place the Americans had nicknamed the Fishhook, where vast stockpiles sustained three full enemy divisions, plus communist units across the border inside South Vietnam -- some 200,000 foes.

Cambodian Prince Sihanouk was well aware of these neutrality violations; indeed, his fifth wife, Monique, her mother and half-brother were secretly peddling land rights and political protection to the NVA; other middlemen were selling rice to the NVA by the thousands of tons. Hoping to woo Sihanouk away from the communists, the Johnson Administration had watched passively while thousands of GIs were killed by communist forces operating from Cambodia, and not only did nothing about it, but said nothing, even denied it was happening.

And now, each week of February and March 1969, more Americans were dying than lost in the Persian Gulf War, killed by NVA forces that struck quickly then fled back to "neutral" Cambodia.

Combined with other data, SOG's Cambodian intelligence appeared on a top secret map which National Security Adviser Henry Kissinger studied aboard Air Force One at Brussels airport the morning of 24 February 1969. Sitting with Kissinger was Colonel Alexander Haig, his military assistant, while representing the president was White House Chief of Staff H.R. "Bob" Haldeman. During the new administration's transition, President Nixon had asked Kissinger to determine how to deal with the Cambodian buildup and counter Hanoi's "fight and talk" strategy.

While President Nixon addressed NATO's North Atlantic Council, those aboard Air Force One worked out details for a clandestine U.S. response: The secret bombing of Cambodia's most remote sanctuaries, which would go unacknowledged unless Prince Sihanouk protested. When Air Force One departed Brussels, Kissinger briefed President Nixon, who approved the plan but postponed implementing it. Over the coming three weeks, Nixon twice warned Hanoi, "we will not tolerate attacks which result in heavier casualties to our men at a time that we are honestly trying to seek peace at the conference table in Paris." The day after Nixon's second warning, the NVA bombarded Saigon with 122mm rockets obviously smuggled through Cambodia. Three days later, Nixon turned loose the B-52s on the Fishhook, the first secret Cambodian raid, which set off 73 secondary explosions.

A Special SOG Mission Not one peep eminated from Phnom Penh or Hanoi and here was a fitting irony: For four years the North Vietnamese had denied their presence in Cambodia, and now, with U.S. bombs falling upon them, they could say nothing. Nixon suspended further B-52 strikes in hopes Hanoi's negotiators might begin productive discussions in Paris, but the talks droned on pointlessly.

To demonstrate that America, too, could "talk and fight," President Nixon approved a second secret B-52 strike, this time against a target proposed by General Creighton Abrams with Ambassador Bunker's endorsement: COSVN, the Central Office for South Vietnam, the almost mythical Viet Cong headquarters which claimed to run the whole war. An NVA deserter had pinpointed the COSVN complex 14 miles southeast of Memot, Cambodia, in the Fishhook, just a mile beyond the South Vietnamese border. The COSVN raid was laid on for 24 April.

Apprised of the upcoming B-52 strike, Brigadier General Philip Davidson, the MACV J-2, thought that instead of just bombing COSVN, a top secret SOG raiding force should hit the enemy headquarters as soon as the bombs stopped falling. He phoned Colonel Steve Cavanaugh, Chief SOG, who agreed and ordered the Ban Me Thuot-based Command and Control South, CCS, to prepare a Green Beret-led company of Montagnard mercenaries for the special mission.

At CCS, the historic COSVN raid fell upon its most accomplished man, that living recon legend, Mad Dog Shriver, and Captain Bill O'Rourke. Though O'Rourke would command the company-size raiding force, Shriver equally would influence the operation, continuing an eight-month collaboration they'd begun when they ran recon together.

Mad Dog - the Man and the Myth
There was no one at CCS quite like Mad Dog Shriver. Medal of Honor recipient Jim Fleming, who flew USAF Hueys for SOG, found Shriver, "the quintessential warrior-loner, anti-social, possessed by what he was doing, the best team, always training, constantly training." Shriver rarely spoke and walked around camp for days wearing the same clothes. In his sleep he cradled a loaded rifle, and in the club he'd buy a case of beer, open every can, then go alone to a corner and drink them all. Though he'd been awarded a Silver Star, five Bronze Stars and the Soldiers Medal, the 28-year-old Green Beret didn't care about decorations.

But he did care about the Montagnard hill tribesmen, and spent all his money on them, even collected food, clothes, whatever people would give, to distribute in Yard villages. He was the only American at CCS who lived in the Montagnard barracks. "He was almost revered by the Montagnards," O'Rourke says.

Shriver's closest companion was a German shepherd he'd brought back from Taiwan which he named Klaus. One night Klaus got sick on beer some recon men fed him and crapped on the NCO club floor; they rubbed his nose in it and threw him out. Shriver arrived, drank a beer, removed his blue velvet smoking jacket and derby hat, put a .38 revolver on a table, then dropped his pants and defecated on the floor. "If you want to rub my nose in this," he dared, "come on over." Everyone pretended not to hear him; one man who'd fed Klaus beer urged the Recon Company commander to intervene. The captain laughed in his face.

"He had this way of looking at you with his eyes half-open," recon man Frank Burkhart remembers. "If he looked at me like that, I'd just about freeze."

Shriver always had been different. In the early 1960s, when Rich Ryan served with him in the 7th Army's Long Range Patrol Company in Germany, Shriver's buddies called him "Digger" since they thought he looked like an undertaker. As a joke his LRRP comrades concocted their own religion, "The Mahoganites," which worshipped a mahogany statue. "So we would carry Shriver around on an empty bunk with a sheet over him and candles on the corners," recalled Ryan, "and chant, 'Maaa-haa-ga-ney, Maaa-haa-ga-ney.' Scared the hell out of new guys."

Medal of Honor recipient Fleming says Shriver "convinced me that for the rest of my life I would not go into a bar and cross someone I didn't know."

But no recon man was better in the woods. "He was like having a dog you could talk to," O'Rourke explained. "He could hear and sense things; he was more alive in the woods than any other human being I've ever met." During a company operation on the Cambodian border Shriver and an old Yard compatriot were sitting against a tree, O'Rourke recalled. "Suddenly he sat bolt upright, they looked at each other, shook their heads and leaned back against the tree. I'm watching this and wondering, what the hell's going on? And all of a sudden these birds flew by, then a nano-second later, way off in the distance, 'Boom-boom!' -- shotguns. They'd heard that, ascertained what it was and relaxed before I even knew the birds were flying."

Shriver once went up to SOG's Command and Control North for a mission into the DMZ where Captain Jim Storter encountered him just before insert. "He had pistols stuck everywhere on him, I mean, he had five or six .38 caliber revolvers." Storter asked him, "Sergeant Shriver, would you like a CAR-15 or M-16 or something? You know the DMZ is not a real mellow area to go into." But Mad Dog replied, "No, them long guns'll get you in trouble and besides, if I need more than these I got troubles anyhow."

Rather than stand down after an operation, Shriver would go out with another team. "He lived for the game; that's all he lived for," Dale Libby, a fellow CCS man said. Shriver once promised everyone he was going on R&R but instead sneaked up to Plei Djerang Special Forces camp to go to the field with Rich Ryan's A Team.

During a short leave stateside in 1968, fellow Green Beret Larry White hung out with Shriver, whose only real interest was finding a lever action .444 Marlin rifle. Purchasing one of the powerful Marlins, Shriver shipped it back to SOG so he could carry it into Cambodia, "to bust bunkers," probably the only levergun used in the war.

And the Real Jerry Shriver Unless you were one of Mad Dog's close friends, the image was perfect prowess -- but the truth was, Shriver confided to fellow SOG Green Beret Sammy Hernadez, he feared death and didn't think he'd live much longer. He'd beat bad odds too many times, and could feel a terrible payback looming.

"He wanted to quit," Medal of Honor winner Fred Zabitosky could see. "He really wanted to quit, Jerry did. I said, 'Why don't you just tell them I want off, I don't want to run any more?' He said he would but he never did; just kept running."

The 5th Special Forces Group executive officer, Lieutenant Colonel Charlie Norton, had been watching SOG recon casualties skyrocket and grew concerned about men like Mad Dog whose lives had become a continuous flirtation with death. Norton went to the 5th Group commander and urged, "Don't approve the goddamn extensions these guys are asking for. You approve it again, your chances of killing that guy are very, very good." But the group commander explained SOG needed experienced men for its high priority missions. "Bullshit," Norton snapped, "you're signing that guy's death warrant."

Eventually 5th Group turned down a few extensions but only a very few; the most experienced recon men never had extensions denied. Never.
"Mad Dog was wanting to get out of recon and didn't know how," said recon team leader Sonny Franks, though the half-measure came when Shriver left recon to join his teammate O'Rourke's raider company. And now the COSVN raid would make a fitting final operation; Shriver could face his fear head-on, charge right into COSVN's mysterious mouth and afterward at last call it quits.

Into COSVN's Mouth The morning of 24 April 1969, while high-flying B-52s winged their way from distant Guam, the SOG raider company lined up beside the airfield at Quan Loi, South Vietnam, only 20 miles southeast of COSVN's secret lair.
But just five Hueys were flyable that morning, enough to lift only two platoons; the big bombers could not be delayed, which meant Lieutenant Bob Killebrew's 3rd Platoon would have to stand by at Quan Loi while the 1st Platoon under First Lieutenant Walter Marcantel, and 2nd Platoon under First Lieutenant Greg Harrigan, raided COSVN. Capt. O'Rourke and Mad Dog didn't like it, but they could do nothing.*

Nor could they do anything about their minimal fire support. Although whole waves of B-52s were about to dump thousands of bombs into COSVN, the highly classified Cambodian Rules of Engagement forbad tactical air strikes; it was better to lose an American-led SOG team, the State Department rules suggested, then leave documentable evidence that U.S. F4 Phantoms had bombed this "neutral" territory. It was a curious logic so concerned about telltale napalm streaks or cluster bomb fins, but unconcerned about B-52 bomb craters from horizon to horizon. Chief SOG Cavanaugh found the contradiction "ridiculous," but he could not change the rules.

The B-52 contrails were not yet visible when the raiding force Hueys began cranking and the raiders boarded; Capt. O'Rourke would be aboard the first bird and Shriver on the last so they'd be at each end of the landing Hueys. As they lifted off for the ten-minute flight, the B-52s were making final alignments for the run-in. Minutes later the lead chopper had to turn back because of mechanical problems; O'Rourke could only wish the others Godspeed. Command passed to an operations officer in the second bird who'd come along for the raid, Captain Paul Cahill.

Momentarily the raiders could see dirt geysers bounding skyward amid collapsing trees. Then as the dust settled a violin-shaped clearing took form and the Hueys descended in-trail, hovered for men to leap off, then climbed away.

Then fire exploded from all directions, horrible fire that skimmed the ground and mowed down anyone who didn't dive into a bomb crater or roll behind a fallen treetrunk.

From the back of the LZ, Mad Dog radioed that a machinegun bunker to his left-front had his *(Greg Harrigan and I had been boyhood friends in northeast Minneapolis.) men pinned and asked if anyone could fire at it to relieve the pressure. Holed up in a bomb crater beneath murderous fire, Capt. Cahill, 1st Lt. Marcantel and a medic, Sergeant Ernest Jamison, radioed that they were pinned, too. Then Jamison dashed out to retrieve a wounded man; heavy fire cut him down, killing him on the spot.

No one else could engage the machinegun that trapped Shriver's men -- it was up to Mad Dog. Skittish Yards looked to Shriver and his half-grin restored a sense of confidence. Then they were on their feet, charging -- Shriver was his old self, running to the sound of guns, a True Believer Yard on either side, all of them dashing through the flying bullets, into the treeline, into the very guts of Mad Dog's great nemesis, COSVN.

And Mad Dog Shriver was never seen again.

The Fight Continues At the other end of the LZ, Jamison's body lay just a few yards from the crater where Capt. Cahill heard bullets cracking and RPGs rocking the ground. When Cahill lifted his head, an AK round hit him in the mouth, deflected up and destroyed an eye. Badly wounded, he collapsed. In a nearby crater, young Lt. Greg Harrigan directed helicopter gunships whose rockets and mini-guns were the only thing holding off the aggressive NVA. Already, Harrigan reported, more than half his platoon were killed or wounded. For 45 minutes the Green Beret lieutenant kept the enemy at bay, then Harrigan, too, was hit. He died minutes later.

Bill O'Rourke tried to land on another helicopter but his bird couldn't penetrate the NVA veil of lead. Lieutenant Colonel Earl Trabue, their CCS Commander, arrived and flew overhead with O'Rourke but they could do little.

Hours dragged by. Wounded men laid untreated, exposed in the sun. Several times the Hueys attempted to retrieve them and each time heavy fire drove them off. One door gunner was badly wounded. Finally a passing Australian twin-jet Canberra bomber from No. 2 Squadron at Phan Rang heard their predicament on the emergency radio frequency, ignored the fact it was Cambodia, and dropped a bombload which, O'Rourke reports, "broke the stranglehold those guys were in, and it allowed us to go in." Only 1st Lt. Marcantel was still directing air, and finally he had to bring ordnance so close it wounded himself and his surviving nine Montagnards.

One medic ran to Harrigan's hole and attempted to lift his body out but couldn't. "They were pretty well drained physically and emotionally," O'Rourke said. Finally, three Hueys raced in and picked up 15 wounded men. Lieutenant Dan Hall carried out a radio operator, then managed to drag Lt. Harrigan's body to an aircraft. Thus ended the COSVN raid.

A Time for Reflection Afterward Chief SOG Cavanaugh talked to survivors and learned, "The fire was so heavy and so intense that even the guys trying to [evade] and move out of the area were being cut down." It seemed almost an ambush. "That really shook them up at MACV, to realize anybody survived that [B-52] strike," Col. Cavanaugh said.

The heavy losses especially affected Brig. Gen. Davidson, the MACV J-2, who blamed himself for the catastrophe. "General," Chief SOG Cavanaugh assured him, "if I'd have felt we were going to lose people like that, I wouldn't have put them in there."

It's that ambush-like reception despite a B-52 strike that opens the disturbing possibility of treachery and, it turns out, it was more than a mere possibility. One year after the COSVN raid, the NSA twice intercepted enemy messages warning of imminent SOG operations which could only have come from a mole or moles in SOG headquarters. It would only be long after the war that it became clear Hanoi's Trinh Sat had penetrated SOG, inserting at least one high ranking South Vietnamese officer in SOG whose treachery killed untold Americans, including, most likely, the COSVN raiders.

Of those raiders, Lt. Walter Marcantel survived his wounds only to die six months later in a parachuting accident at Ft. Devens, Mass., while Capt. Paul Cahill was medically retired. Eventually, Green Beret medic Ernest Jamison's body was recovered.

But those lost in the COSVN raid have not been forgotten. Under a beautiful spring sky on Memorial Day, 1993, with American flags waving and an Army Reserve Huey strewing flower petals as it passed low-level, members of Special Forces Association Chapter XX assembled at Lt. Greg Harrigan's grave in Minneapolis, Minn. Before the young lieutenant's family, a Special Forces honor guard placed a green beret at his grave, at last conferring some recognition to the fallen SOG man, a gesture the COSVN raid's high classification had made impossible a quarter-century earlier. Until now, neither Harrigan's family nor the families of the other lost men knew the full story of the top secret COSVN raid.

But the story remains incomplete. As in the case of SOG's other MIAs, Hanoi continues to deny any knowledge of Jerry Shriver.

Capt. O'Rourke concluded Mad Dog died that day. "I felt very privileged to have been his friend," O'Rourke says, "and when he died I grieved as much as for my younger brother when he was killed. Twenty some-odd years later, it still sticks in my craw that I wasn't there. I wish I had been there."

There remains a popular myth among SOG veterans, that any day now Mad Dog Shriver will emerge from the Cambodian jungle as if only ten minutes have gone by, look right and left and holler, "Hey! Where'd everybody go?" Indeed, to those who knew him and fought beside him, Mad Dog will live forever.


(This article is derived from Maj. Plaster's book, SOG: The Secret Wars of America's Commandos in Vietnam, published by Simon & Schuster.)

Also see this for an account of the final action that led to his MIA
http://taskforceomegainc.org/s139.html

(edit) Notes from the Virtual Wall:
According to the Task Force Omega site, a Radio Hanoi broadcast indicated that Shriver had been killed in the fighting. However, he was carried as MIA until 10 June 1974, when the Secretary of the Army approved a Presumptive Finding of Death. During this time he was promoted from E-7 to E-8. As of 04 June 2004 his remains have not been repatriated.

There is a marker for Master Sergeant Jerry M. Shriver in the Fort Lawton Federal Cemetery in Seattle, Washington (Plot 4-235, placed 08/22/1974).

Unofficial information indicates that Master Sergeant Shriver was on his third tour of duty in Vietnam and received two Silver Stars, the Soldier's Medal, seven Bronze Stars, the Purple Heart, the Air Medal, and three Army Commendation Medals for valor - a total of 15 decorations.

[snowmman 3]

from http://www.americantowns.com/ca/sacramento/news/a-day-to-remember-in-sacramento-100257 May 20, 2008

Operation Enduring Freedom
Kinser, Adam G.
Palmer, Christopher L.

Operation Desert Storm
Dale L. Paulson
Leroy E., Jr. Hein

Vietnam War
Gary Eugene Newby
Richard Lee Laws
Karl Robert Berbert
David Levant Felt
Kenneth Richard Endsley
Gene Howard Jr Ellis
David Lewis Harty
Michael Anthony Gilson
John Michael Henson
Gerald C Hunsbarger III
Gary Nolan Bass
Jerome Garcia
James Richard Brink
Edward Wayne Butler
Michael Jean Dugas
Charles Wesley Haskell
David Robert Goodine
George Henry Brewer
Grant Hamly Highsmith
John Calvin Smith
Jeffry Ray Tharaldson
Erskine Jay Oliver
Francisco Mario Jr Tamayo
Dennis Ray Langrock
Michael Ransom Page
Robert Warren Major
Edmund Lawrence Palczewski
Robert Wayne Toreson
Lionel Jr Parra
Tamadge Cecil Jr Stevens
Phillip Anthony Lotta
Peter Lenhart Siller
David Earl Schwartz
Ronald Royce Ryan
Ervin Lee Rush
Gary Lee Mc Cloud
Kenneth Earl Mc Farland
Larry Dee Mc Kinnon
John Glenn Melchor
Terry Leroy Joslin
Samuel Walter Yates
James Raymond Kelly III
Robert Edward Wright
James Allen Belveal
Philip Mark Bennett
Boyd Edwin Squire
Donald Keith Bakkie
John Michael Acosta
Leonard Paul Hudson
Ronnie Herbert Beals
Kenneth Eugene Aznoe
Donald Paul Abbie
Kenneth Jacob Arent
Thomas James Daniels
Hugo Araux Gaytan
Blair Edward Dennis
Fredrick Jean Hoffman
Johnny Manuel Cruz
James Shelton Hollis
James R Godwin
James Gregory Brady
Robert Charles Hein
Robert Owen Cole
Herbert Ernest Frenzell
Manuel Louis Gines
Ralph Guarienti
Larry B Buzzard
John Gilbert Broadbeck
Roy Wayne Graham
James Oliver Ellsworth
Thomas James Carter
David Leroy Butler
John Henry Gruber
Edward Carrola
Terry Lewis Conley
Thomas James Huckaba
Albert Clifton Jr Files
Thomas Joseph Jr Fox
Robert Ernest Gaftunik
Michael Milton Cox
Robert Jay Hess
Houston Clifford Jr Box
Craig Louis Hagen
Jerry Lee Houser
Robert Lee Foster
Steven John Gaftunik
Jackie Don Weatherly
David Thomas Shields
Vincent Gene Lew
Jack Harlan Kamrath
Robert Gene Smoot
Robert Royce Sloppye
Ronald Dean Layton
Michael Arnold Joseph
Bobby Gene Lawrence
Paul Robert Jordan
Ernest Murral Weathersbee
Martin John Kerby
Gary Philip Rader
Douglas Edward Lohmeyer
Jerry Michael Shriver
Jerry Lee Simmonds
Raymond Jr Villalpando
Daniel Ray Twitty
Tony Trombetta
Michael Kenneth Klein
Wilson Couch Koehler
Lawrence Lee Keister
Bobby Clyde Snyder
Ronald Allan Vilardo
David George Williams
Kenneth Eugene Kotyluk
Ralph Warren Kuchcinski
Steven Charles Vinter
Melvin Charles Lapp
Dennis Ray Stewart
Stephen Joseph Stemac
Stanley Frank Wilton
Roy Edward May
Timothy Xavier Murphy
John Frederick Morris
John Edward Nelson
Terrance William Nelson
Charles Sargent Moore
Kenneth Vern Jensen
George Wesley Montgomery
Gary Teofilio Padilla
Richard Griffith Philbin
James Paul Mc Laughlin
Theodore Jr Mazon
James J Jr Shaughnessy
Ronald James Revis
Robert William Jr Johnson
Joseph Santos
Lupe Paul Lopez
David Jackson Sharp
Guy Gene Jr Shannon
Richard J Johnston
Stuart Arthur Werner
Wallace Bruce Werner
Irving Albert Self
Raul Losoya
Salvadore Iniguez Ruiz
James Goodwin Whaley
Loy Neal Whaley
Kenneth Edward Ross

Korean War
Barbieri Henry Jasper
Hagan Malcom C
Mc Pherson Patrick Joe C
Polenske Kenneth Otto
Walsh David Charles
Wright Jack M

[georger 247]

There is a NATIONAL Data Base on Spores and Pollen. I couldn't catch the name of the professor so I am ordering this documentary.

Regarding the diatoms was another professor - and he is able to test for the diatoms and tell you what water and which river it has been in.

There was much more discussed in this film but these are the things that supposedly the team jumped on in Wa - but none of the men were contacted that I am aware of. The FBI and Kaye and Georger talk about Pollen or spores at the time and yet NO ONE DEMANDED this be checked against the National Data base. Why wasn't the diatoms addressed more aggressively?

I would like to know if the TEAM suggested this these tests to the FBI and if the FBI declined or shoo shooed it. If they paid 50K to Tom then why would they not do the tests he recommended?

[snowmman 3]

georger correctly pointed out "(that was a rumor the Snowmman
started). "

Isn't the Cooper thing all about rumors?
I've said many times. "There are no facts".
Sluggo concurred, with his issue about Fact vs Fiction categories for books published.

[snowmman 3]

background: I am by no means experienced in using online search materials for people. Stuff like that used by genealogy folks.

I've been getting myself up to speed.

Ancestry.com has stuff I wasn't aware of.

With respect to our quest for info about a Ted. B. Braden, age 80, it's depressing information.

I suspect Cousin Brucie will be able to dig up some more stuff, so I'll defer to him for a while.

(edit) Hey in honor of Mad Dog, and to see if you read the full post on him, I've attached a Marlin Model 444-S (.444 Marlin).

There's another post I could make about how Plaster in "SOG" noted the jokeplaying around "Walter Shumate". Walter Shumate stayed in, and somehow joined Delta Force in the late 70's under Beckwith.
(the joke was to always give your name as "Walter Shumate" whenever you got into fights, or kicked some Marine ass, or signed into hotels etc...so the stories started filtering back about Walter Shumate doing all these crazy things everywhere, simultaneously)

[snowmman 3]

Sergeant Major Walter J. Shumate was a living legend in the Special Forces. A veteran who had entered the army during the Korean War, he had seen and done it all. Now closing in on thirty years of service, at forty-four he was the oldest man ever to make it through Delta Force Selection. And he was invaluable to the formation of the unit. Sumate added an element of humanity that could very well have eluded the organization in those critical early years. Without his special touch and unique influence, the outfit could easily have taken itself way too seriously. But with Shumate around, no matter how special we thought we were, he could always convince us that were were just human beings. He was serious about soldiering but he was the opposite of a robot.

(this was in the 1978, after Shumate had served in MACV-SOG in Vietnam, after he got into Delta)

[snowmman 3]

interesting Frank Greco ran the photo lab for CCC.
(I had quoted from his "Running Recon" book before.

Kontum: Command and Control

27 February 2006

Vietnam special forces veteran Frank Greco recently published Kontum: Command & Control as a follow up to his highly acclaimed first book Running Recon.

Greco enlisted in the Army after dropping out of college and after completing his basic infantry and parachute training joined Special Forces. Whilst assigned as a typist to the 7th SF group at Fort Bragg in late 1968 he a submitted request to serve in Vietnam. Two weeks after that request he received his orders and departed for his mission in early April 1969.

For the first 8 months of his tour he was a member of SOG (Studies and Observation Group) Recon Team Colorado running missions across the boarder in Laos, whilst stationed at CCC (Command and Control Central) in Kontum.

Greco assumed control of the CCC photo lab for the remainder of his time In-Country, processing and developing top-secret reconnaissance photographs as well as taking part in numerous low-level recon flights across the border.

Greco's original work, Running Recon, was an account of his and other veteran's experiences in SOG and featured more than 700 photographs that were taken and developed during his time at CCC.

Kontum: Command and Control uses the same successful format as Running Recon and contains around a 100 photographs within its 80 pages. Some of the photos are full color versions of the black and white images in Running Recon, whilst others are never before seen SOG photographs.

The book has a number of good aerial images of the Ho Chi Minh trail, as well as plenty showing Recon teams just prior to mission departure. In addition to the photographs a few SOG veterans have contributed some of their personal accounts, which make for interesting reading.

Whilst Kontum: Command and Control is less comprehensive and features fewer original photographs than Running Recon, it is nonetheless a valuable supplement to the original book and a worthwhile addition to any SOG library.

[skyjack71 0]

Sluggo Stated:
Soledad
I told you that I remembered something major (enough to make the evening news) happening at Soledad while I was living in CA. I told you that I couldn’t remember if it was in Upstate NY or CA.

Jo states:

ALL you said was it was a prison in N.Y. that they sent some really bad guys. You mentioned NOTHING about Ca. You must have found that after you went home but NEVER communicated it to me.

YOU know that little was said about Soledad and what I said above is ALL that was said in my presence - anything else was what you researched AFTER you left here.

==================


Sluggo stated:
Is it your way of saying that the guy you once trusted may be part of the “BIG conspiracy” against you and your efforts to prove Duane Weber (John Collins) was D.B. Cooper? Exactly why is it that this is “an issue” with you?

Jo States:

You are reading WAY too much in to my statement about Soledad - You take things totally out of context. I used this as an example of - of things being taken out of context - nothing more.
====================

Sluggo said:
The Knife
The knife I saw was a typical folding pocket knife (of the Boy Scout variety) with some lint in the folding slot that was EXACTLY like the lint found in the knife I was carrying in my pocket at the time. This led me to think the knife had little or no value as evidence. I did not state this to you, because I did not want to be unkind and sound like I was saying; “You old fool, that’s just pocket lint!” Maybe, I should have been more honest and forthright. It’s just not my nature.

Jo States:

That was a much larger knife than the Boy Scout variety and that piece of cord DID not resemble the lint that had accumulated. It cannot be judged of NO value unless someone BESIDEs Sluggo see it.
===================

Sluggo states:
Fees and Compensation
If you or anyone else honestly believes the rumor that is circulating that Tom Kaye received $50,000 for his part in Nat-Geo’s “The Skyjacker That Got Away” I truly feel sorry for you. If you just look at the production budget, the sum of $50,000 is laughable. A rumor that Tom Kaye received $5000 would maybe be believable.

JO states:

Read the prior posts. I only stated something that SOMEONE else had stated and it was used to place value on what the FBI looks at and doesn't look at.
===================


Sluggo said
Jo’s Perceptions
When I see your post about things I have said, decisions I have made, and conversations we (you and I) have had, I realize that your perception is VERY different from mine. This casts doubt on all the other things you have told me. If I was starting over, looking into Duane’s past, I would be skeptical of everything you said in cases where you did not have evidence (like Pasternak’s research).

Jo States:
I remember what you said to me about Soledad - I would also be skeptical of your research. You do additional research, but never relay that information to the other party. The high intellectual gets caught up in their thoughts and forgets to relay information to another interested party.

Do your research and leave your personal feelings down there with Drummond Dog or whatever you call it. Your intellect and education and analytical brain ARE your strongest asset - don't let personal agendas get in your way. NO one is right 100% of time no matter how high your IQ is.
=======================

Sluggo said:
his madness will cause you to drive away the people who want to help you the most. Don’t slide over the edge.

Jo states:

I am not going over the edge, because more research HAS been done and it leads down 3 roads. No one likes one of the roads - it is one even I am hesitant to travel and the other one is so sordid I can't even talk about it. That leaves only the road I have traveled well - with NO defining evidence other than all of the mounting co-incidences.

Do I take one of the other roads where the evidence and data and documentation points - one of those roads leads to a tangled forest where horrible things happened and there is no escape from this for the victims of the toment...I will not go there...the price is too high.
=======================

Sluggo said:

I have posted here a dozen (or so) times; “Those that know, aren’t talking and those that are talking, don’t know.” Let me say that (to you specifically) in another way. SHUT UP! THE INVESTIGATION IS ONGOING, THE PEOPLE YOU BADGER CONSTANTLY (by berating their efforts) ARE SEEKING THE TRUTH. WHEN THE TIME COMES, YOU’LL KNOW WHAT THEY KNOW… NOT BEFORE!!!

The results of the investigation may point to Duane, or not. I’m still “open minded” about Duane, but I’m “open minded” about several other suspects also. The current approach is not find a suspect and prove that the suspect was Cooper, but rather look at the (small quantity of) evidence and see where (to whom) it points.

* * I was concerned that the mention of Camp Siebert might be confidential, but you mentioned it in posts #3703 and #1120.

[snowmman 3]

Jo and Sluggo
sitting in a tree
K-I-S-S-I-N-G
First comes love
Then comes marriage
then comes ...I don't know what!

(edit) Badges?

The original quotation comes from the 1948 film The Treasure of the Sierra Madre with Humphrey Bogart. In one of the scenes in the movie a Mexican bandit leader (Gold Hat played by Alfonso Bedoya) is trying to convince Fred C Dobbs (played by Bogart) and company that they are the Federales.

Dobbs: 'If you're the police where are your badges?'
Gold Hat: 'Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges! I don't have to show you any stinkin' badges!'

This in turn was adapted from B Traven's 1927 novel upon which the movie was based:

"All right," Curtin shouted back. "If you are the police, where are your badges? Let's see them."

"Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don't need badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching' tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you."

From "The Sierra Madre"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqomZQMZQCQ
From "Blazing Saddles"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lj056ao6GE

[skyjack71 0]

Very close except the towers where much larger and tall. There was little green. but it could be he didn't have much in the way of colors to work with. Artist do that with water colors if they need to draw and show what they are seeing, but don't have the correct medians...the painting left me with the feeling of larger towers and a more barren area. Now the idea of barb wire is what I thought I saw in the paintings but I seem to think it was higher off the ground but not like photos you see of prisons.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

http://rlv.zcache.com/soledad_welcome_sign_tshirt-p235786517046874846q08p_400.jpg

[skyjack71 0]

From Sluggo's post:

Quote

I have posted here a dozen (or so) times; “Those that know, aren’t talking and those that are talking, don’t know.” Let me say that (to you specifically) in another way. SHUT UP! THE INVESTIGATION IS ONGOING, THE PEOPLE YOU BADGER CONSTANTLY (by berating their efforts) ARE SEEKING THE TRUTH. WHEN THE TIME COMES, YOU’LL KNOW WHAT THEY KNOW… NOT BEFORE!!!

The results of the investigation may point to Duane, or not. I’m still “open minded” about Duane, but I’m “open minded” about several other suspects also. The current approach is not find a suspect and prove that the suspect was Cooper, but rather look at the (small quantity of) evidence and see where (to whom) it points.

TO ALL:

The above statement is misleading ----
There is absolutely NOTHING going on inside of the FBI regarding any further investigation of Cooper. NOTHING! What is being done in this forum and by private individuals is ALL that is going on.

The FBI did NOTHING regarding Duane Weber until I confronted them in 2000 and they have done nothing in recent yrs except for Robbie Borroughs referring to a letter the FBI sent me in 1998 stating that Weber had been investigated. Excuse me that person is TOTALLY misinformed and should not represent the FBI.

Maybe I should make SOMETHING I HAVE REGARDING THE FBI'S INVESTIGATION as late as March of 2000 available to the MEDIA everytime the FBI makes that statement. The FBI dismisses the fact that they still checked the DNA in 2008 - and that they obtained the DNA on Weber in 2003. Excuse me, but the reference to that letter of 1998 - means the officials within the FBI don't have a clue of what is going on.

The FBI can't even post reliable and factual information on the official FBI site and rely on Comic Books to get the attention of the public. Ridiculous!

Yes, I hope they are reading this because I am fed up. The Salt Lake City photo wasn't even looked at - by Carr or anyone else in the FBI office. When hunting and the bird dog goes into point position - believe me there is something there. They didn't do a flush to even see what was in those bushes.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

Ok, I worked thru the numbers to see how much of FBI resources are on the case.

as of 8/25/04

There are 28,576 FBI employees.
12,156 of these are special agents.
16,420 are support people, including 1300 analysts and more than 1000 information technology experts.
200 are overseas

There are 48 chemists
3 geologists
3 mathematicians
and just 1 metallurgist.

Out of all that, there is 1 person working the case.

And then there's the contract with Snowmman Industries, which doesn't disclose employees by division or project, but accounts for 37% of the FBI outsourcing budget.

(edit) Example: We recently received okay to buy up all "Dan Cooper" comics that exist worldwide, thinking that getting contact with all collectors would help lead to DB Cooper. The FBI okayed the budget, and we get 10% collection fees on all comics purchased. Win, win. Local and state taxes apply, so everyone gets a taste.

(edit) I'm closing in on twice the number of posts Jo has. Life is good.

[snowmman 3]

Running Recon: A Photo Journey with SOG Special Ops Along the Ho Chi Minh Trail

Frank Greco Paradin Press 2004

Attached some snaps from internal pages of the book, showing some photos, just for people who are interested in these kind of books

[snowmman 3]

Kontum: Command and Control
(Select Photographs of SOG Special Ops During the Vietnam War)

Frank Greco (USA 2005)

his 2nd book. some snaps from inside attached.