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georger 247
Quotean interesting thought sluggo.
I'm looking at the photo, and I really doubt it's colorized.
seems like a color photo when you look at all of the detail.
I would note that Braden seems to have a slender build. Look at his shoulders, beginning of chest/back.
Braden may not be Cooper, but it's really amazing that you can start out, thinking someone of a certain profile doesn't exist (Vietnam era), and then there's someone who's like a perfect match for what you're looking for.
If Braden isn't Cooper, and Waugh isn't Cooper, then I pretty much give up, as I think the problem is not solvable given the data (unless someone confesses with evidence or someone finds evidence). I'm amazed at little things like the money focus, the love of pushing the envelope, the job problem. etc. It's like it's all there.
(edit) I'd be willing to believe Schaffner got the eye color wrong, but I can see why others wouldn't (because the FBI is adamant?)
(edit) I guess a stretch would be that the photo has Braden's eyes colored, but that's hard to believe.
(edit) There's also the skin texture. There's light pockmarks, rough skin? The stews didn't comment on any marks like that...
All photos are colorised, if only in the color balance
of the camera & processing etc.
Sluggo is suggesting someone hand 'painted' the pupils by hand, as per the Unionville Studio which
hand paints the pupils on all its portrait photos,
because owner Gerdy Clark learned it that way in
her DeVries Institute Photo Art class for which she
paid $99.95 and got certified certified, back in 1940!
Think of all those returning veterans and their familes
who wanted their photos taken after 1945! Gerdy
could now afford a car and a new husband!
This photo is not of that calibre but it definately belongs to a genre of some kind. It looks like a
good military photo to me, but who knows ...
Will any of this matter?
I doubt it.
Did Braden speak with an accent, Mae'um?
At least Waugh had an idiom in his favor - I forget
what it was.
snowmman 3
Yeah, it was funny what Waugh wrote in the email to Jo.
If the WWII enlistment was for the same Ted B. Braden with a lie on the age, then we have his birth state (assuming that's what "Nativity" is) and residence at time of enlistment (if you're wondering about speech)
Basically, Midwest.
Nativity State or Country: Indiana
State of Residence: Ohio
County or City: Lucas
Enlistment Date: 28 Jan 1944
Enlistment State: Ohio
Enlistment City: Toledo
If the WWII enlistment was for the same Ted B. Braden with a lie on the age, then we have his birth state (assuming that's what "Nativity" is) and residence at time of enlistment (if you're wondering about speech)
Basically, Midwest.
Nativity State or Country: Indiana
State of Residence: Ohio
County or City: Lucas
Enlistment Date: 28 Jan 1944
Enlistment State: Ohio
Enlistment City: Toledo
snowmman 3
Isn't everyone in the US?
It's so funny.
Everyone believes they have insight.
This guy says he's been looking at it for 16 years
(he wrote one book, on his police career)
at the bottom of
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/book-police-cops-2527636-san-diego
"Q: Do you plan to write another book?
A: Yes. I am now in the early stages of authoring a book exposing the dozens of facts and circumstances I discovered during my 16 years of investigation of the so-called unsolved D.B Cooper skyjacking case."
(edit) Evidently he's a conspiracy guy! Bruce will love him!
He says (before the end of the interview)
And that the unsolved D.B. Cooper skyjacking case can be solved by congressional or federal grand jury hearings and investigations through interviews and interrogations of those named on my list of potential material witnesses and those I suspect of aiding and abetting in a cover-up conspiracy. My list has been secured with my attorney, and available by means of congressional and/or federal grand jury subpoenas.
(edit) Don't know why he refers to his "DB Cooper partner"
Q: Why did you become a writer?
A: After retirement, my D.B. Cooper partner, who was my 1952 to 1953 San Diego Police Department partner, and friend since then, urged me to author a book about my very diverse cop career.
oh I see, they teamed up to investigate it
It also contains one chapter of my partnering with my 1952 to 1953 San Diego P.D. partner and good friend to investigate the unsolved D.B. Cooper skyjacking case.
I would note that 16 years is longer than Jo's adventure!
(edit) his first book is here:
Cops, Crooks and other Crazies (Paperback)
by George C. Nuttall (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/Crooks-other-Crazies-George-Nuttall/dp/1890035742
Cops, Crooks and other Crazies is the inside story of policing California streets and highways. It is all here: the humorous, sad, tragic, violent and incredible, straight from the streets and highways of California from Yreka to the Mexican border. Plus Nuttall's eye-opening investigation of the unsolved D.B. Cooper skyjacking case. From walking foot beats as a rookie cop in San Diego's Skid Row to protecting President Ronald Reagan and the Queen of England during their historic meeting in Santa Barbara, Captain Nuttall tells what police work is really like as he observed and experienced it for 31 years during the greatest evolution of law enforcement in American History-on the San Diego Police Department and the California Highway Patrol.
Paperback: 438 pages
Publisher: New Century Press (December 1, 2008)
ISBN-10: 1890035742
ISBN-13: 978-1890035747
It's so funny.
Everyone believes they have insight.
This guy says he's been looking at it for 16 years
(he wrote one book, on his police career)
at the bottom of
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/book-police-cops-2527636-san-diego
"Q: Do you plan to write another book?
A: Yes. I am now in the early stages of authoring a book exposing the dozens of facts and circumstances I discovered during my 16 years of investigation of the so-called unsolved D.B Cooper skyjacking case."
(edit) Evidently he's a conspiracy guy! Bruce will love him!
He says (before the end of the interview)
And that the unsolved D.B. Cooper skyjacking case can be solved by congressional or federal grand jury hearings and investigations through interviews and interrogations of those named on my list of potential material witnesses and those I suspect of aiding and abetting in a cover-up conspiracy. My list has been secured with my attorney, and available by means of congressional and/or federal grand jury subpoenas.
(edit) Don't know why he refers to his "DB Cooper partner"
Q: Why did you become a writer?
A: After retirement, my D.B. Cooper partner, who was my 1952 to 1953 San Diego Police Department partner, and friend since then, urged me to author a book about my very diverse cop career.
oh I see, they teamed up to investigate it
It also contains one chapter of my partnering with my 1952 to 1953 San Diego P.D. partner and good friend to investigate the unsolved D.B. Cooper skyjacking case.
I would note that 16 years is longer than Jo's adventure!
(edit) his first book is here:
Cops, Crooks and other Crazies (Paperback)
by George C. Nuttall (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/Crooks-other-Crazies-George-Nuttall/dp/1890035742
Cops, Crooks and other Crazies is the inside story of policing California streets and highways. It is all here: the humorous, sad, tragic, violent and incredible, straight from the streets and highways of California from Yreka to the Mexican border. Plus Nuttall's eye-opening investigation of the unsolved D.B. Cooper skyjacking case. From walking foot beats as a rookie cop in San Diego's Skid Row to protecting President Ronald Reagan and the Queen of England during their historic meeting in Santa Barbara, Captain Nuttall tells what police work is really like as he observed and experienced it for 31 years during the greatest evolution of law enforcement in American History-on the San Diego Police Department and the California Highway Patrol.
Paperback: 438 pages
Publisher: New Century Press (December 1, 2008)
ISBN-10: 1890035742
ISBN-13: 978-1890035747
377 22
QuoteAnd that the unsolved D.B. Cooper skyjacking case can be solved by congressional or federal grand jury hearings and investigations through interviews and interrogations of those named on my list of potential material witnesses and those I suspect of aiding and abetting in a cover-up conspiracy. My list has been secured with my attorney, and available by means of congressional and/or federal grand jury subpoenas.
Ho hum... another teaser. Hide the DBC ball, imply massive conspiracies, require "congressional or federal grand jury subpoenas" to imply that you have something really important... all in an effort to sell a book. I don't think Jo is trying to commercialize anything however. This ex cop obviously is.
I cannot imagine a credible reason for the govt to cover up the identity of DB Cooper. When you have to resort to conspiracy theories to solve a case you have essentially given up on rational investigation. Call me a skeptic, cynic or whatever, but I'd bet huge odds against a coverup.
Anyone read the Columbia River piloting article?
Braden sure makes one hell of a Cooper candidate even if he wasn't Cooper. The money obsessing, drinking and scamming just fits my vision of Cooper to a T. Ted's wild adventurism fits as well.
You'd almost have to be addicted to alcohol to drink before such a difficult and dangerous jump. It degrades critical performance and perception. Everyone knows that. Who among the jumpers reading this (who is not an alcoholic ) would drink Bourbon right before suvch a jump? I sure wouldn't. Orange? Guru? Nitro?
Let's see if someone who has contact with Flo can get her to take a look at the Ramparts photo of Ted Braden.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
snowmman 3
okay, I saw the banner ad for the "Dead Man Boogie"
trying to expand...what if I have the "What Would Ted Do" Boogie? Guns, booze, women, smokes, suits, sunglasses, petty crime, jumps, low pulls, a little murder on the side.
The idea is, that everyone has to do things like Ted B. Braden would have done...
Ted was being bad-ass in the '60s! (edit) In his 40's! And people think a little bit of drugs in the '70s makes for interesting jumper tales!
If Ted B. Braden was going to hijack a plane for money, would he have done it like Cooper?
I'm starting to believe that maybe Waugh's likely execution: i.e. What Would Waugh Do? probably doesn't match Cooper's execution (although maybe?)
But Ted? yeah it sounds like there's a wildman.
I'm was surprised at how Duncan implicated him in an ARVN murder.
The whole thing fits the cold unemotional Cooper behavior?
I wonder if Ted smoked. Probably most did. Be interesting if we could find him smoking Raleighs. I wonder if Waugh knew. Duncan might know. Ex-wives would know.
We have the name of the 2nd wife. Interestingly papers local to Ellsworth back in the '70s printed the names of people that got admitted or released from hospitals. So people could visit.
Braden's wife (or ex-wife by then) was admitted in 1978, using the same Braden last name.
So far, it seems to me that she kept the Braden last name. I'm not sure about her kids (from prior husband).
Don't know the name of the first ex-wife.
trying to expand...what if I have the "What Would Ted Do" Boogie? Guns, booze, women, smokes, suits, sunglasses, petty crime, jumps, low pulls, a little murder on the side.
The idea is, that everyone has to do things like Ted B. Braden would have done...
Ted was being bad-ass in the '60s! (edit) In his 40's! And people think a little bit of drugs in the '70s makes for interesting jumper tales!
If Ted B. Braden was going to hijack a plane for money, would he have done it like Cooper?
I'm starting to believe that maybe Waugh's likely execution: i.e. What Would Waugh Do? probably doesn't match Cooper's execution (although maybe?)
But Ted? yeah it sounds like there's a wildman.
I'm was surprised at how Duncan implicated him in an ARVN murder.
The whole thing fits the cold unemotional Cooper behavior?
I wonder if Ted smoked. Probably most did. Be interesting if we could find him smoking Raleighs. I wonder if Waugh knew. Duncan might know. Ex-wives would know.
We have the name of the 2nd wife. Interestingly papers local to Ellsworth back in the '70s printed the names of people that got admitted or released from hospitals. So people could visit.
Braden's wife (or ex-wife by then) was admitted in 1978, using the same Braden last name.
So far, it seems to me that she kept the Braden last name. I'm not sure about her kids (from prior husband).
Don't know the name of the first ex-wife.
377 22
The What Would Ted Do? boogie sounds too dangerous for me Snow.
I think I'll attend the What Would Duane Do? boogie instead.
We'll take sentimental journeys, bury dogs, share historic tie collections, annotate library books, etc.
Parachuting? Nahhh.
377
I think I'll attend the What Would Duane Do? boogie instead.
We'll take sentimental journeys, bury dogs, share historic tie collections, annotate library books, etc.
Parachuting? Nahhh.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377 22
QuoteI'm was surprised at how Duncan implicated him [Braden] in an ARVN murder.
Just a typical throw a bro under the bus jumper thing Snow. Remember?
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
snowmman 3
QuoteQuoteI'm was surprised at how Duncan implicated him [Braden] in an ARVN murder.
Just a typical throw a bro under the bus jumper thing Snow. Remember?
377
no, I think it's more subtle than that.
When I first read it, I thought "is this like Penthouse, where ex-military guys brag about encounters that never happened"...but no, Duncan and Braden were just saying it like it was.
What's amazing is the level of detail Braden had. For someone with just two years of high school [if that's his WWII enrollment] I wonder if he had a writer help him? Or did he do it himself? maybe Duncan helped??
These guys all got their chops in Korea. I was just looking at the KIA counts in Korea. I didn't realize it was almost as high as Vietnam, in just a few short years. We don't talk about Korea, historically, so much.
It was a big deal. We see it's effects today. (just a couple months ago NK rejected the armistice..so it's topical!)
I think Duncan and Braden were just "bragging" because they could. Because they knew shit that others didn't. And that they knew they coud say shit, and not get prosecuted or pursued or investigated, because they knew how bad the shit was in Vietnam.
So they were thumbing their nose a bit.
"Sure, Braden probably murdered an ARVN. He hated them"...be able to write that and not worry about it.
I wonder how the article was perceived in 1967? Did people believe it? or think it was bullshit?
How do people perceive it today? Do they think Braden is just talking smack? I don't. I think everything he says aligns with what we know about the CIA. I don't think the US public still really knew in 1967??? Remember how the CIA guys were going after Ramparts? No wonder!
Hey remember that military guy who they put on trial for the murder of the suspected double? Plaster makes a point in his book that later evidence shows he really was a double...although I guess the point is you can't just go offing people you have as prisoner.
377 22
QuoteHow do people perceive it today? Do they think Braden is just talking smack?
Nope. Braden didn't need to embellish to impress. The reality in Nam and Korea for front line soldiers was crazy enough that exaggeration was usually unnnecessary.
The Raleigh cigs angle is worth some followup. Bourbon too.
Does anyone besides me think Cooper may have been an alcoholic as evidenced by drinking immediately prior to a very dangerous jump?
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
snowmman 3
Quote
Does anyone besides me think Cooper may have been an alcoholic as evidenced by drinking immediately prior to a very dangerous jump?
377
An FBI agent said he wasn't, because he spilled his drink.
Alcoholics never spill.
georger 247
QuoteYeah, it was funny what Waugh wrote in the email to Jo.
------------------------------------------------------
I agree. Plain funny. We've had so many coincidences in this chase, with people already disposed to ,aking the most out of any small
coincidence - inumeracy at its livliest.
The troll thing: well I was half serious. Just following
up on Sluggo's lead, but things have been more
civil which makes things easier. Nuff said.
I just dont happen to believe the odds are stacked
in favor of a highly qualified Vietnam vet, certainly
not SOG or the like ... thats just my bias. Im not
saying Vietnam maynot be involved but not in the
direct way you seem to think it is. I see nothing in
Cooper which suggests a highly trained individual,
at least not in aviation or military tactical methods. Maybe Im missing something. There could be a
Vietnam connection but of an indirect kind.
I take Cooper's physical parameters very seriously, which should be obvious. I mean age, generation, descriptors, and the like. I also have a set of
psychological markers which I am using but wont
comment on yet.
And Tintin keeps popping up in the line of thought
I am examining - its rather unerving. Did you know that Anthony Bourdain mentions Tintin in his
"Kitchen Confidential". Someone reminded me of
this last week, out of the blue. Children would have Tintin in France if they could afford it (loved it) ... and I know someone who has an office in Brussels soI made inquiry there and got some further perspective tohow much Tintin meant to certain people, in the 1960s, and the context of this which I have found interesting. It would not have to be our Cooper did Tintin himself, as much as his children did! The consenus in people I discuss this with is our Cooper had connections, perhaps strong social connections of like mind. So I follow this to see.
Cooper came from somewhere and he was somebody. He had a history. He may have a very
clear (and strong) psychological type.
Some time ago I was forced to ask myself: was
this a hi-tech or lo-tech crime? The answer is
obvious and I think it has implications across
the board. Cooper took a decidedly lo-tech
approach to everything, as I see it. (Some of the
investigators and now 'we' are trying to take a hi-tech approach. which may have implications across
the board and be a mistake.)
georger 247
Anyone read the Columbia River piloting article?
yes I did.
georger 247
If Ted B. Braden was going to hijack a plane for money, would he have done it like Cooper?
no definately not. he would have demanded
$500k for a start. Destination: Libya
georger 247
The Raleigh cigs angle is worth some followup. Bourbon too.
Does anyone besides me think Cooper may have been an alcoholic as evidenced by drinking immediately prior to a very dangerous jump?
377
Does anyone besides me think Cooper may have been an alcoholic as evidenced by drinking immediately prior to a very dangerous jump?
377
yes worth exploring...
why did he move to sit on the outside (west facing)
window?
snowmman 3
Quote
If Ted B. Braden was going to hijack a plane for money, would he have done it like Cooper?
no definately not. he would have demanded
$500k for a start. Destination: Libya
Why Libya?
in 1971, Ted B. Braden had a relationship in the U.S. (PA), effectively and maybe really, married to a woman with 3 kids from a prior marriage. A rocky relationship, that dissolved at some point in the '70s.
Why would he go to Libya?
Georger: I think your profile on Braden might be skewed because you're missing some info? Or weighting the assorted info differently than I am.
snowmman 3
Quote
The Raleigh cigs angle is worth some followup. Bourbon too.
Does anyone besides me think Cooper may have been an alcoholic as evidenced by drinking immediately prior to a very dangerous jump?
377
yes worth exploring...
why did he move to sit on the outside (west facing)
window?
I don't follow this question: You mean on the way into Seattle? I thought he was on the east side then???
I thought I did - or am I getting more absentminded?
Carbon Copy w/ red and black.
I said Out Loud "Portand to Seattle and the date Nov 1971.
Boy this is an old ticket!" My approximate words.
You didn't answer the question about the names.
Surely if it had been a name other than Duane's you would have wondered why he had the ticket?
So most likely (if you didn't notice anything odd about the name) it was in Duane's name. Therefore it was not Dan Cooper's ticket.