DB Cooper

[snowmman 3]

Duane was underage when he joined the navy
He was the correct age when he joined the army

jo said "anyone could get in the Army during wartime - all you needed was a SS"

interesting comparing the two..they both enlisted in Ohio
(Jo has recounted Duane's prior time in the Navy...this is Army)

Duane enlisted (Army) in Columbus, Ohio. Mar 31, 1943
Ted enlisted in Toledo, Ohio. Jan 23, 1944

Duane's birth year is correct, when he enlisted in the Army.
Ted's birth year is incorrect when he enlisted. (Ted was born 1928)

-----------------------------------------

Name: Duane L Weber
Birth Year: 1924
Race: White, citizen (White)
Nativity State or Country: Ohio
State of Residence: Ohio
Enlistment Date: 31 Mar 1943
Enlistment State: Ohio
Enlistment City: Fort Hayes Columbus
Education: 1 year of high school

----------------------------------------------

Name: Ted B Braden
Birth Year: 1925
Race: White, citizen (White)
Nativity State or Country: Indiana
State of Residence: Ohio
County or City: Lucas
Enlistment Date: 28 Jan 1944
Enlistment State: Ohio
Enlistment City: Toledo
Education: 2 years of high school

[Orange1 0]

was it "normal" to have only 1-2 years of high school before enlisting, i mean even if you were underage it sounds too low?

didn't one of Bruce's sources describe Braden as having some college education? Could that have been after WW2?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

I get a kick out of your lexicon: "dislusional" and "probable proof". Give us more.

I provided the same information to the forum that I provided this man - but he dug deep and hard and didn't think I was dislusional.

Quote

Seriously though, if you have evidence that Duane was a jumper this is the place to post it. The FBI has already decided that Cooper was not a jumper. Some of us here are not so sure.

Hq Co. 502 ed - may only be a false lead, but it has our hearts a leaping. Cooper is a common name and for your information there was a Cooper (jumper) in 1945 in the 502 ed,, but that is not what we were looking for just one of those little details that pops out at you.

Quote

Against my better judgement I still keep searching for evidence of California prison inmate smoke jumpers. So far zero, just inmate ground based fire crews.

I am really wondering if you saw a movie poster photo. Also, why would inmates be used when there are so many non criminals who wish to enroll as smoke jumpers? What's the point? Way more risk using inmates and no more reward.

If it was a movie poster - find it.

The image is emblazoned in my brain. If I was a good sketch artist I would draw it. Black and white. The statement under the photo was brief - and could pre-date jumpers returning from the war and becoming smoke jumpers. These 3 were volunteers for the beginning of this program - it did not state if the program got off and running or if it fizzled for the very reasons you have stated - "way more risk using inmates".

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Orange1 0]

Quote

If it was a movie poster - find it.

What is this, your personal detective agency to order everyone around?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Quote

If it was a movie poster - find it.

What is this, your personal detective agency to order everyone around?

I wasn't ordering anyone to do anything - it was just a remark in conjunction to his post - it was NOT meant to sound snippy the way you took it.

I do not have a personal detective agency just a few people who believe in me and are trying to find what can be found.

I have Duane's Navy registration:
Serial Number - N-91-A
Order number -12035-A
Address: 160 Oak Rd. Stow, Ohio
Age - 19
Birth Date 06-18-1922

The Certification of Service in 2000 indicated NO known dates for the army and a serial number of 35 608 905, but one yr later the Certifications reads March 31 1943 to July 14, 1943. This happened AFTER my conversation with Ralph Hope the agent of record in March of 2000, who at that time told me my husband HAD NEVER been in the Army and that the Serial Number belonged to Wavy Greene (not sure of how that was spelled).

The Certification of Service states for Navy coincides with the other data provided since - with a serial number of 283 56 96
date entered 06-18-41
date released 05-30-42

The 2001 certificates were a result of my visit with Veteran Affairs and the file was CLASSIFIED. I filled out the papers and you see what I got.
Nothing - really just verification he was in the ARMY. Guess they cleared up the Wavy Green thing between early Mar of 2000 and Sept of 2001. I made the pysical request Sept of 2000 and the certificates are dated Sept. of 2001. There was plenty of time for government intervention - remember that in March of 2000 - the FBI claimed Duane Weber was NEVER in the ARMY.

Weber must to have really had "some" issues with authority figures in those yrs, but he was determined to serve his country in some way. In the end he found a way ---- the missing yrs the FBI refused to look for. What this young man had done was unheard of - rumors and only one individual came forward a few yrs ago to reveal on a TV program that he let someone "go over" in his place. He wasn't proud of it, but he wanted to confess up before he died. He never revealed who "went over" in his place.

The above is just one incident, but there were others.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Since I have already been CLASSIFIED as dislusional I will take it ONE more step forward.

The documentary or news segements that dealt with the "going over" issue above have been erased for the media.

A documentary involving someone Duane knew from his past - also did a disappearing act.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 244]

Quote

was it "normal" to have only 1-2 years of high school before enlisting, i mean even if you were underage it sounds too low?

didn't one of Bruce's sources describe Braden as having some college education? Could that have been after WW2?

You have to have a historical perspective to answer
this - it comes down to economics/war/jobs.

Most of the guys who fought in WWII came out of
the Great Depression of the 1930s. The same for
World War I with the Great-Great Depression of the
1890s. America was an agrarian nation both times.
Conditions in 1900-10 and the 1930s were very bad.
People tended to have large families. It was not uncommon for children to be out on their own
by age 16 or even younger; a precident going
clear back into the 1700s. Jobs were scarce but
the military offered employment.

War was employment. Education took second place
and was a luxery. It was not uncommon for people to lie about their age (the military realy didnt care especially in WWI). It was very common for people
to enlist and wait for 6 mos. to a year for their orders to come through but when orders did come through people dropped everything and left under
penalty of Law, whatever they were doing. A relative of mine did this in 1939 after enlisting in '38. He
got his orders and dropped everything and missed the last 'two weeks' of his senior year just prior to graduation and his highschool refused to grant him a graduation certificate. Things like this were very
common and disruptive to people's lives...

The first real break in this scenario occured during
WWII with a string of Acts passed by Congress
promoting education (Lanham Act 1941, Ntl Ed. Act
'44, Voc Ed Act '46, Impact Aid Act of 1950, and
National Defense Education Act of 1958) ... it would
be out of this context that Braden may have availed
himself of some education amounting to 2 years of
college credit.

NDEA loans covered full tuition and room and board at 1% per with the principle forgiven in yearly segments if a person became a teacher and worked at teaching for 5 years or more. Tuitions back then
only amounted to an average $247 per semester in
most goiod Land Grant colleges - the same institutions today require $10,000+ in tuition per
semester!

It might interest you to know that many larger corporations like Rockwell, Honeywell, GE, etc
are recommending something tantamount to
a revitalisation of the former NDEA program to help bolster math and science education in the United States, at a time when college education has become basically unaffordable to our population -

[BruceSmith 3]

Quote

was it "normal" to have only 1-2 years of high school before enlisting, i mean even if you were underage it sounds too low?

didn't one of Bruce's sources describe Braden as having some college education? Could that have been after WW2?

Quote

Hi Orange,

JD Bath told me two things.

1. When they were together in Vietnam, Ted seemed like a guy who had at least a year or two of college. JD said this in response to some comments I made about Ted reading books in base camp, and having a self-written piece in Ramparts that seemed to well-written for a guy who only had two years of high school before he enterd the service in 1944.

2. JD said that Ted worked on his education at Langley before coming over to Vietnam. (When I hear Langley, I immediately assume CIA, as that is where HQ is.)

• Quote

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Quote

was it "normal" to have only 1-2 years of high school before enlisting, i mean even if you were underage it sounds too low?

didn't one of Bruce's sources describe Braden as having some college education? Could that have been after WW2?

Quote

Hi Orange,

JD Bath told me two things.

1. When they were together in Vietnam, Ted seemed like a guy who had at least a year or two of college. JD said this in response to some comments I made about Ted reading books in base camp, and having a self-written piece in Ramparts that seemed to well-written for a guy who only had two years of high school before he enterd the service in 1944.

2. JD said that Ted worked on his education at Langley before coming over to Vietnam. (When I hear Langley, I immediately assume CIA, as that is where HQ is.)

Georger - your historical point taken. But I think Bruce has shed light on it above as well.
I wonder how many of the returning servicemen went on to finish high school or enter college - I assume there was some kind of 'mature student' exemption from a high school diploma at many colleges at the time?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

• Quote

[georger 244]

I wonder how many of the returning servicemen went on to finish high school or enter college - I assume there was some kind of 'mature student' exemption from a high school diploma at many colleges at the time?

[georger 244]

Quote

Quote

Quote

was it "normal" to have only 1-2 years of high school before enlisting, i mean even if you were underage it sounds too low?

didn't one of Bruce's sources describe Braden as having some college education? Could that have been after WW2?

Quote

Hi Orange,

JD Bath told me two things.

1. When they were together in Vietnam, Ted seemed like a guy who had at least a year or two of college. JD said this in response to some comments I made about Ted reading books in base camp, and having a self-written piece in Ramparts that seemed to well-written for a guy who only had two years of high school before he enterd the service in 1944.

2. JD said that Ted worked on his education at Langley before coming over to Vietnam. (When I hear Langley, I immediately assume CIA, as that is where HQ is.)

Georger - your historical point taken. But I think Bruce has shed light on it above as well.
I wonder how many of the returning servicemen went on to finish high school or enter college - I assume there was some kind of 'mature student' exemption from a high school diploma at many colleges at the time?

Wouldnt it be interesting to know what materials
Braden chose to read. ?

It's no critcsm of Bruce I'm making - just a simple
observation. Lots of people read. What they read
may be significant. In a very real sense people
have to be educated to 'get' education, ie. see the
value in education. Reading and the desire to read is a skill most people learn very early. It goes to
who Braden was or was-not.

If people noticed Braden reading they probably
also noticed what his selections for reading were?
And if not why not, and does this affect the reliability
of their reporting about Braden.

Braden evidently turned to reading as a diversion.
He may also have turned to truck driving for the
same reason (Snowmman asked why Braden would
turn to truck driving vrs Nuclear Physics or mass murdering Congolese!). Diversion. A method of
coping with stress. Truck driving can be very
soothing. Would Braden turn to hijacking as a
therapeutic diversion while also needing money - this is basically what Snowmman has been implying all along.

Did Braden read Tintin? Surely somebody would
know that!

• Quote

[skyjack71 0]

Wiley Barracks was in Germany and was an Army facility. Having been all over the WEB and being caught up in cobwebs - I need help.

Was Wiley Barrack in Germany in 1945-1950 or 1962-1966. I cannot find anything that outlines the history of this except for the later yrs yet, I get the concept that infantries and Airborne where that during the times listed above. Would someon be so kind as to direct me to a site I CAN understand.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3660264#3660264

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

Beach photo:
This is an old pic taken around 1969 by the ex-wife of Duane at the beach after he got out of prison - there is NO date so I am guessing by looking at another photo...which includes her and I can't take her out of the pic. They are taken with the same camera and appear to be around the same time.

UpClose:
This photo was taken around 1977 and he had gained a lot of weight. I cropped out his gray hair - just focus on the mouth.
You have seen pics of Christiansen - the stewardess said "I think you are on to something". Duane had some dental work done after 1971.

When showned a picture of Coffelt - she is also noted to Identify his picture as Cooper.

Who else has she ID'ed as Cooper? There have been so many I forgot to keep count.

Duane was left handed but used his right almost as well. Note he wore his watch on the left arm just as right handed individuals do. This is demonstrated by photos that show his arms.

With this in mind I know I have asked this question before but didn't understand the answer. If you are sitting in the Plane like Cooper and facing the Cockpit which side of the plane was Cooper on? I have some confusion regarding this. One would think that Cooper knowing his bomb was fake would choose to leave his dominant hand free for normal activities such as smoking or eating or drinking. Did Cooper leave his hand on the 'bomb" at all times? These are questions I have in my mind.

Wonder what Florence would say about that close-up? Or does it really matter?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 244]

If you are sitting in the Plane like Cooper and facing the Cockpit which side of the plane was Cooper on? I have some confusion regarding this.

[georger 244]

Quote

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3660264#3660264

377

HAHO was the 2nd Mo'i of Maui. HAHO NUI. He was the titular chieftain or king of the island of Maui. He is believed to have succeed his father Paumakua. He and his descendants only had control over portions of Western Maui and relied on the allegiance of the many district chiefs.

Among the Maui chiefs from the close of the Hawaiian migratory period, when the Hawaiians journeyed backed and forth from their Polynesian homelands, not many names arrest the attention of the antiquarian student. The position of Moi of Maui appears to have descended in the line of Haho, the son of Paumakua-a-Huanuikalalailai. From the tenor of the ancient legends, East Maui, at the time, comprising the districts of Koolau, Hana, Kipahulu, and Kaupo, was at times under independent Mois, and the legends mention six by name. From Eleio to Hoolae, the latter of whom was comtemporary with Haho's descendant, Piilani, and whose daughter married Piilani's son, Kiha-a-Piilani.

Theses district chiefs' allegiance to the West Maui Mois was always precarious, even in later times. The island of Molokai does not appear to have acknowledged the sway of Haho or his descendants during this period, and for some time after, only obeyed its own independent chiefs, the ancestors of Kalanipehu and descendants of Keoloewa and Nuakea. The island of Lanai, however, and its chiefs, though often in a state of revolt, appera always to have recognized the Moi of Maui as their suzerain. He married the high chiefess Kauilaianapa who bore him a son. Haho was succeeded by his son Palena.

[edit]
Legacy

Haho, has gone down to posterity and been remembered by all succeeding ages throughout the group as the founder of the Aha-Alii, an institution which literally means the congregation of chiefs, and, in a measure may be compared to a heralds' college; and to gain admission into which it was incumbent on the aspirant to its rank and privileges to announce his name, either personally or through an accompanying bard, and his descent either lineal or collateral, from some one or more of the recgonised, undisputed ancestors ("Kupuna") of the Hawaiian nobility, claiming descent either on the Nanaulu or Ulu line. "Once a chief always a chief", was the Hawaiian rule of heraldry, and no treason, crime, or lesser offence ever affected the rank or dignity in the Aha-Alii of the offender or of his children. There was no "bill of attander" in those days.

There were gradations of rank and tabu within the Aha-Alii, well understood and seldom infringed upon. No chief could fall from his rank, however his possessions and influence might vane; and none could rise higher himself in the ranks of the Aha-Alii than the source from which he sprang either on mother's or father's side; but he might in several ways raise the rank of his children higher than his own, such ae by marriage with a chiefess of higher rank than his own, marrying with a sister, or by their adoption into a family of higher rank than that of the father. The privileges and prerogatives of the Aha-Alii were well defined and universally known, both as regards their intercourse with each other and their relation to the commonalty, the Makaainana. Their allegiance or fealty to a superior chief was always one of submission to superior force, of personal interest, or of family attachment, and continued as long as the pressure, the interest, or the attachment was paramount to other considerations; but the slightest injury, affront, or slight on the part of the superior, or frequently the merest caprice, would start the inferior chief into revolt, to maintain himself and his possessions by arms if able, or he fled to some independent chief of the other islands, who almost invariably gave him an asylum and lands to live on until a change of affairs made it safe to return to his former home.

A chief of the Aha-Alii, if taken captive in war, might be, and sometimes was, offered in sacrifice to the gods, but he or his family were never made slaves if their lives were spared. And if the captive chief was of equal or higher rank than his captor, he invariably received the deference and attention due to his rank, and his children not unfrequently found wives or husbands in the family of the conqueror. A chief of the Aha-Alii was of right entitled to wear the insignia of his rank whenever he pleased: the feather wreath, the Lei-hulu (feather cloak or cape), the Ahu-Ula (ivory clasp, the Palaoa.

His canoe and its sail were painted red, and he wore a pennon at the masthead. Among the members of the Aha-Alii it was not unusual that two young men adopted each other as brothers, and by that act were bound to support each other in weal or woe at all hazards, even that of life itself; and if in after life these two found themselves, in war time, in opposing ranks, and one was taken prisoner, his life was invariably spared if he could find means to make himself known to his foster-brother on the opposite side, who was bound to obtain it from the captor or the commanding chief. And there is no instance on record in all the legends and traditions that this singular friendship ever made default. Such were some of the leading features of the Aha-Alii, which all existing traditions concur in asserting was instituted by Haho about twenty-five generations from the reign of King Kalakaua.

It arose, probably, as a necessity of the existing condition of things during this migratory period, as a protection of the native aristocracy against foreign pretenders, and as a broader line of demarcation between the nobility and the commonalty. It lasted up to the time of the conquest by Kamehameha I., after which this, as so many other ancient customs, good, bad, or indifferent, gradually went under in the light of newer ideas, new forms of government, and new religion. By the days of the Kingdom of Hawaii there were no more Aha-Alii, though there was a " House of Nobles," in which the foreign-born number ten to nine of the native-born, and few of these latter recall to the minds of the common people the great historical names of former days, the great feudal lords on this or that island, who, still within the memory of the then living people, could summon a thousand vassals or more to work their fields and do their bidding.

[edit]
References
Abraham Fornander, An Account of the Polynesian Race: Its Origin and Migrations, Rutland, VT: Charles E. Tuttle Company, 1969. Page 28-30, 78-79
"The Stories & Genealogies of Maui," http://www.mauiculture.net/mookuauhau/index.html, Accessed 9 Oct 2004.

[BruceSmith 3]

Quote

If you are sitting in the Plane like Cooper and facing the Cockpit which side of the plane was Cooper on? I have some confusion regarding this.

Quade asked the same question clear back in
Ap 2008 and never got an answer (below). Apparently nobody (here) knows.

quade
Moderator
Apr 4, 2008, 10:27 AM
Post #1085 of 12689 (2213 views)
Re: [SafecrackingPLF] knife? [In reply to]
Do you know of a seating plan diagram for the 727-100 available on-line anywhere?

Why does it matter? Well, , , people have gone on
at length about what Cooper could see or not see,
blah blah blah, and turns out we dont even know
what seat he was sitting in in relation to the rest of
the airplane. Someone may know, but isnt saying:

N467US was a 727-51 as distinct from a 727-100
or 727-200 which I think was a smaller craft with
fewer seats than a 727-100.(I attach a nice chart for 727-200 seating which doesnt apply here).

Sluggo (at his Research website) has no charts and seems to rely on Pasternak's account which cites: "94 seats - 66 coach and 28 first class" and 'sat at the back of the plane' in 18C. Ckret confirms 18C
wherever that was on the plane. Boeing however
cites the 727-51 as accomodating 134 seats?

All accounts I have ever read say seat "18C".
All accounts I have ever read place Cooper at the
back of the plane close enough to the stew's seat
at the back of the plane that Cooper was able to lean out and speak to Schafner, telling her to read
the note he had given her (in an envelope).

Every depiction I have ever seen shows Cooper
and a stew sitting on the starboard (right side) of
the back of the plane ... Cooper in the aisle seat ...
and immediately after he got Schafner's attention advising her to read his note, Flo and Tina go forward
to Scott, and Scott asks Flo to go back and sit 'with
the passenger', and when Flo does go back to Cooper "he has moved over from the aisle seat to the window" (starboard window which would be west
side window as 305 flew along V23 going south),
as per the below:

"
The next time she (Schafner) passed he (Cooper) motioned for her to come closer and whispered to her, “You'd better read that. I have a bomb." He nodded toward the briefcase in his lap. Schaffner went to the galley, read the note and shared it with fellow attendant Tina Mucklow. They hurried to the cockpit where Capt. Scott had a look. At 3:13 PM the pilot radioed Sea-Tac Flight Operations with this message

Capt. Scott sent Schaffner back to the hijacker. She sat in Cooper's aisle seat. He had moved to the window. Cooper opened his briefcase wide enough to give her a glimpse of its contents. (Sluggo from his website)."

Ckret never did answer Quade's question or speak
on this topic.

Snowmman seemed to question my account repeated above ? He seems to have his own ideas ?

Sluggo may have something he has never
chimed in with ?

[georger 244]

Russ Calame in his book describes Cooper's seating arrangments similarly, namely starboard side of the airplane. He talks quite a bit about it, and drew a diagram to compare how McCoy also sat in the same relative place, although he had a different seat number due to a different configuration in that 727, and had the re-fueling truck park in the same position as the one for Cooper. Calame says the seat postion for both crimes was ideal for monitoring the refueling, the placement of the air stairs, and the coming and going of folks. The seat Cooper chose, and McCoy, is one more piece of evidence of a well-planned operation.

[skyjack71 0]

You can forget those names I gave a while back that were in the Pocket Atlas - I was right.
The list was something that did survive the 1st marriage and we now know these guys are unrelated to Weber in any way.

The pocket Atlas DID belong to Duane because the first husband was NEVER in Colorado. I thought I was right about the list - but we had to verify it.

The reason I asked the question about the plane is this - Duane and I flew out of Miami to the Islands - one of the larger islands and then took a puddle jumper to St. Thomas because their airstrip was not large enough for the 727.

When we were on this 727 - we sat in row 17 or 18 at his request.
I have tried to envision that flight, but we were on the left side of the plane facing the cockpit. If you look at the picture of the 727 on the ground at at Sea-Tac the blinds are pulled forward of the wings (but maybe this was the division between 1st class and 2ed class). Where we were sitting on our plane in relation to that picture was just aft (behind the wing) of the wings - Duane explained to me what was happening with flaps as you could see them move from where we sat.

On this same plane - I would have to refer to earlier notations to remember if we were boarding or disembarking - we stood at the door to the aft stairs and he told me what it was and how it worked. The door and back on this particular plane was covered with a dark tan woven cloth fabric and there was this wheel type thing on it. He explained how it worked and how it lowered a stairway that went out of the belly of the plane. SO my next Question is there another door on any of the 727's on the side in the rear of the plane. I know there is a door near the pilots cabin - BUT is there another door on the side in the rear and which side is it on.

The only picture I have is the one in Norjak which shows the plane at the rear of the airport. In the back ground is a road and what looks like a motel in the back ground.

When Duane took me to Seattle he made a short cut (which really wasn't a short cut) that was in the back of the airport. He commented that not much had changed - except there was a high tall linked fence that wasn't there before. I noted today in that picture that the fence that was there in 1971 appears to be a wooden fence. I had not really took the time to study this before.

Behind this fence there is a building that appears to be a motel. Does anyone know what this motel looked like from the other side or the name of it and if it had a pool? All motels of the time looked the same to me, but take a look at the picture I am going to scan and then post.

It is old and faded and my daughter who saw it yrs ago -asked this question "What does he have on under his jacket?" The shoes are NOT loafers and it certainly looks like he has something under the jacket. At that time he was not portly as evidenced by the picture you saw of him in swimming trunks taken at the most 18 months earlier.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

That composite has to be a promo thing for Cook's book as it has the chin and lines adjusted to fit Gossett. The widows peak was NEVER part of the description.

Doug Pasternack is the one who spent 2 hours with the artist who did the original composites in the beginning and there was NO mention of a peak. There was a mention of a motion the artist found himself unable to depict on the composites. I have kept pretty quiet about what that was and someone suggested a pursing of the lips but that is not it. It was an express Duane made and which can be seen in some of his pictures and if he was upset or very serious it was more exaggerated.

This artist spent hours with the witnesses and there are things said to him that were never told to the media. Sitting with the artist the witnesses tended to be more relaxed which helps the memory.

This artist had detail the FBI did not have.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 244]

Quote

That composite has to be a promo thing for Cook's book as it has the chin and lines adjusted to fit Gossett. The widows peak was NEVER part of the description.

Doug Pasternack is the one who spent 2 hours with the artist who did the original composites in the beginning and there was NO mention of a peak. There was a mention of a motion the artist found himself unable to depict on the composites. I have kept pretty quiet about what that was and someone suggested a pursing of the lips but that is not it. It was an express Duane made and which can be seen in some of his pictures and if he was upset or very serious it was more exaggerated.

This artist spent hours with the witnesses and there are things said to him that were never told to the media. Sitting with the artist the witnesses tended to be more relaxed which helps the memory.

This artist had detail the FBI did not have.

Have you even seen the video? Talked to the
maker? Probably not.

I know nothing about it. Just what I saw and heard
at Youtube.

The script does stick very closely to the old FBI
profile and expands it only slightly.

Just go see the video before making 200,000
judgements which will roll up at Tina Bar 2 days
later ?

[georger 244]

Russ Calame in his book describes Cooper's seating arrangments similarly, namely starboard side of the airplane. He talks quite a bit about it, and drew a diagram to compare how McCoy also sat in the same relative place, although he had a different seat number due to a different configuration in that 727, and had the re-fueling truck park in the same position as the one for Cooper. Calame says the seat postion for both crimes was ideal for monitoring the refueling, the placement of the air stairs, and the coming and going of folks. The seat Cooper chose, and McCoy, is one more piece of evidence of a well-planned operation.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

From Pocket-PC in motel so forgive errors.

A 727-51 is a 727-100 configured specifically for Northwest Orient Airlines.

I have never been able to find a seating chart that I felt was reliable.

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[377 22]

Jo

There is another side door. See photo.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/24/Syrianair_Boeing_727.jpg

Have you ever previously mentioned Duane explaining 727 stair deployment to you?

Describe the "wheel" in more detail.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 244]

Quote

From Pocket-PC in motel so forgive errors.

A 727-51 is a 727-100 configured specifically for Northwest Orient Airlines.

I have never been able to find a seating chart that I felt was reliable.

Must be ESP because I came to that suspicion
about 5 mins ago after finding a number of FAA
directives about seating capacities allowed for
different 727-100 configurations, amongst the
airlines. Long lists of factors specific to each type
of 727-100 configuration, as per each airline.

So, it seems reasonable to assume we can
modify a standard seating chart to fit what we
know about where Cooper sat in18C at the back,
starboard side, near the stew's station (which
I have located on one chart I have), in front of
the rear galley and Lav area (also shown on
charts I have accumulated). Let me see if I can
put a graphic together and we can go from there ...
would be nice to have.

[edit additional note]: from wikipedia -

". . . he handed a note to a young flight attendant named Florence Schaffner,[11] who was seated in a jumpseat attached to the aft stair door, situated directly behind and to the left of Cooper's seat. "