DB Cooper

[JerryThomas 0]

J0 it is time to put everything to rest. Here is the deal . If you stop claiming Duane was Cooper. I will promise you I will not post anything that will embarass you or prove you have been wrong. In your claim's.The bottom line is I will discuss all theories you may have on this case with you.If you like. We can do this by phone or on the forum .It's up to you. If you wish to discuss every thing on the Forum , That is fine with me . Further more you can feel free to post any private message's that we send to each other. In reference to this case Jerry

[Orange1 0]

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Orange 1 Jo is correct about Ted , He was not Cooper.He was investigated and looked at. He was eliminated very quickly.Jerry

Duane was also investigated and eliminated.
I was actually trying to get Jo to see how ridiculous it is to ask people here to "prove" Duane wasn't Cooper, but I guess she can't see the parallel. Or won't. Whatever.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[georger 244]

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J0 it is time to put everything to rest. Here is the deal . If you stop claiming Duane was Cooper. I will promise you I will not post anything that will embarass you or prove you have been wrong. In your claim's.The bottom line is I will discuss all theories you may have on this case with you.If you like. We can do this by phone or on the forum .It's up to you. If you wish to discuss every thing on the Forum , That is fine with me . Further more you can feel free to post any private message's that we send to each other. In reference to this case Jerry

well said.

[skyjack71 0]

I finally got to watch that program on a DVD someone made for me.

WHEN is the FBI going to show the REAL tie clip. This makes 3 different clips I have seen. Before it was a Mother of Pearl onlay in a flat oval setting and now it is beinging shown as 2 pearls set side by side.

Have ALL of the clips shown been props - what does the ACTUAL clip look like? Also they go from pin to clasp to clip.

As for Jerry Thomas - I have taken ALL I will take off of him.
He was rude and abusive to me on the phone - then he tried to turn around and have a normal conversation like it never happened. If he is capable of conducting a REAL conversation then he can CALL me.

I am NO longer health wise able to engage in a combative phone conversation nor one of interrogative prisoner of war tactics. The ball is in his court if he wishes to have a CIVIL polite and quiet talk on the phone...and never ever to call me a liar.

A liar I am not. Trying to tell the story about what happened and where I went and what was said and what I saw - is the truth. I would appreciate a call from him telling me HOW and WHY he did not accept the description about the trip I gave him in the beginning about the wide body of water and why did he flip this so as to make it sound like Duane and I went back to the Columbia?

WHY he did not talk about or mention the LaCames Lake even after I told him about this old house that was on this "river".
I told him the water was not running like on the Washougal and where we went was NOT too far from Washougal. It was long and wide - that is WHY I thought we were on a "river".

Jerry was the expert in the area I had been told to get in touch with to help me retrace the route Duane took me on. I trusted Himmelsbach and I trusted Jerry at that time due to the recommendations. It was NOT until I went out to WA (2001) and found the places myself - after Jerry had told others the places (I described) did not exist. At that time Jerry was not considering the Washougal area and now has done a complete about face.

I even blamed myself in that My Description was not adequate and
accepted the area Jerry said I had to have been on. I accepted this until I went to WA in 2001.

When that crew took me to the Columbia at Tena's bar I was adamant that was NOT where Duane took me.

When they took me to the Washougal - yes that was one of the places the took me, but they never took me to Lake LaCames or the old mansion.

NOT one person until the ANGEL Udell even mentioned the area and she did NOT give me a name but just said "after you cross the bridge in Washougal - turn left and if you have ever been there you will know it".

At this point is when I asked the driver what was along our left side (we where driving West after turning left in Washougal after crossing the bridge). He told me the Washougal. I immediately told him - that Jerry had told me there was NO way the Washougal could be on my left.

On down that road I told the driver to turn Right. At this point he told me that if we had continued on our road would have dead-ended. When we made that right turn going due North - immediately I saw the things that I had remembered from the trip. The driver maintained a safe rate of speed but did not speed up or hesitate until - I SCREAMED "TURN TURN TURN " I was screaming and pointing. I saw a street sign.

When Duane had taken me into this area - showed me these places and said the things he did - I thought to myself I might need to remember this place. When we left that area he had tried to turn me around and let me think we were on a river. As we left I saw this one sign and made a note in my memory bank. Remember - my visual recall ability.

All of the routes the crew had taken me on did not go there.
After we turned the Driver told me this was the only turn that could take us to any body of water in that area. Immediately I saw the things I recognized - things had changed over the 20 plus yrs - I found everything but that hill or small mountian (knob) - that small peaceful fenced place Duane took me with all of those rocks on it and pointed out beyond the boulder strewn field stating how the pipelines and powerlines converge and how you could walk for miles under them before the undergrowth was there and the small creek running on the other side that came out at the road. He also mentioned a creek that came out of the Bonneville Camp area under power lines and that the pipeline ran through the Reservation.

This is why I am angry - Jerry did not listen to me in 1997 with his heart. He heard a story and made me think there was NO WAY I could have been in the places I said I was. He even convinced me I didn't know what I was talking about...and I accepted his answers about where we may have been until May of 2001. I tried with all of my heart and soul to be heard and by the time I was - NO ONE believed it - NO one would listen.

At that time I could ill afford to go back to WA. and I had entered into a relationship which later was a marriage. I will never forgive myself for getting on that plane and coming back to FL before finding someone in Law Enforcement or with the FBI to have gone back to the area. I guess I was still trusting the FBI or Jerry to do it - it never happened.

My last converstation with Jerry prior to his coming to this forum in 2001 was asking (why he had not told me about this area). Letting him know I found the area I had diligently over and over tried to explain to him. Yet, I had accepted his explanation for a period of time and that was damaging to the truth. I learned one thing Never Back off of what you know and remember - Never let anyone lead you.

PS
I have absolutely NO reason to Make a "deal" with Jerry. I have admitted that for a brief period of time I accepted his explanation until I saw the areas for myself....Lake LaCames was not the Columbia he had convinced me I had to be on. I kept telling him the banks where not high enough to be the Columbia. He didn't listen to me.

Duane and I crossed the Columbia and went over to Highway 14 after we left the Dalles. At this point we traveled along the Columbia until we reach Washougal.

I would NOT see the Columbia again until several days Later on our return trip from Seattle. Prior to this I had NEVER been to Portland - the return trip was the first time in my life I ever sat foot in Portland.

I had told Jerry that where we crossed the Columbia on our trip up - that we DID not go to Portland - that we crossed way before Washougal.

Jerry had me fully confused and the only map I had was one that showed half of the US from California to Washington to Ks (half of the USA).

Sluggo and others whose names are lost to me at this time did send maps after my trip in 2001.
Had someone provided me with these maps prior to 2001 - that trip to WA would have counted big time. I lost a lot of good yrs because I didn't have proper maps.

Someone did send some copies of the Vancouver area from a Thomas Guide (prior to 2001) but they were of no use to me.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[rdufokker 6]

special on National Geographic right now noon.

Irony: "the History and Trivia section hijacked by the D.B. Cooper thread"

[snowmman 3]

Quote

special on National Geographic right now noon.

We were talking about estimating height/weight.

Marc Bossley, who plays DB Cooper in the Nat Geo show, is apparently 5'10" - 170 lbs.

http://www.marcbossley.com/marcsite_003.htm

he has brown eyes also.
http://marcbossley.com/index.htm

but look at Marc's eyes here
http://marcbossley.com/grayshirtmarcweb.jpg

Marc squinting down
http://marcbossley.com/copmarcweb.jpg

[rdufokker 6]

I find it interesting that a thread started by such purists would call the tread D.B. Cooper rather than Dan Cooper.

Irony: "the History and Trivia section hijacked by the D.B. Cooper thread"

[skyjack71 0]

Surely there is someone posting here who knows what the real tie tac, clasp or pin looked like. Doesn't any one have a picture of the one in evidence and not just props. With the one shown on the National Geographics - I have cuff links similar to that, but that is not the same item the FBI showed on its site. The one on the FBI site is vague and no close-up unless they have done one since about 1 yr ago.

If the National Geographics used a prop which I believe it to be I can bet I know who provided it or picked it - Sluggo. Why, because he knows what the items look like that I have in my possession. Just something else to get Jo on a roll.

I have always been told the tie piece was a mother of pearl onlay which I and others might interpret to be a flat pearly surface with varigated textures - commonly a maze of tiny squares that are pressed together into a flat surface.

Has to be someone who will answer this question.

I have never believed what I had was a match to the description given by the FBI and I threw away lots of other pieces with pearls in them....

The tie tac shown on the National Geo looks to be more of a comtemporary piece and much newer than what one would expect Cooper to wear. That piece was not NON descript, but very distinctive.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

-Eldridge Cleaver wrote "Soul on Ice" in 1968.

-on page 47 of that book he says "Too much agreement kills a chat".
Why would he make this forward reference to the Cooper DZ.com thread?
http://books.google.com/books?id=H0W2AAAAIAAJ&dq=%22too+much+agreement+kills+a+chat%22

-Eldridge Cleaver worked for Ramparts magazine, which published Ted Braden's article. Eldridge first learned of Ramparts in prison, possible the same prison where he may have met Duane Weber or Coffelt:

http://books.google.com/books?q=Eldridge%20Cleaver%20Ramparts


Conversation with Eldridge Cleaver: Algiers‎ - Page 104
by Lee Lockwood - History - 1970 - 131 pages
CLEAVER. No, I never did feel any conflict there. I became aware of Ramparts while I was in prison. In the prisons of the state of California Ramparts is ...


-Eldridge jumped bail in 1968 and fled to Algeria.

-He was joined by Timothy Leary, of LSD fame (remember MK Ultra LSD experiments.

-Cleaver was supported by regular stipends from North Vietnam. Ted Braden was in Vietnam.

-Cleaver was followed by other former criminals turned revolutionaries, many of whom hijacked planes to get to Algeria.

[snowmman 3]

Successful FOIA has gotten me the attached photo.

NASA Photo ID: S64-18642 File Name: 10074719.jpg
Film Type: 35mm BW Date Taken: 04/03/64
Title: Astronaut Gordon Cooper walks up path filled with cactus during field trip
Description:
Maguey, cholla, ocotillo and other cactus grows beside Astronaut Gordon Cooper's path while he is on a geological expedition in the Big Bend region of West Texas.

aka Leroy Gordon Cooper Jr.
Born March 6, 1927. Age on 11/25/71: 44

One of the original seven members of Project Mercury, a CIA-financed Cold War program.

He flew the longest spaceflight of the Mercury project, was the first American to sleep in orbit, and was the last American to launch alone into Earth orbit and conduct an entire solo orbital mission.

Cooper logged more than 7,000 hours of flight time, with 4,000 hours in jet aircraft. He flew all types of commercial and general aviation airplanes and helicopters.

Cooper specialized in the Redstone rocket (and developed a personal survival knife for astronauts to carry).
This knife was known as the Randall Model 17 Astro.

Cooper was launched into space on May 15, 1963 aboard the Mercury-Atlas 9 (Faith 7) spacecraft, the last Mercury mission. He orbited the Earth 22 times and logged more time in space than all five previous Mercury astronauts combined – 34 hours, 19 minutes and 49 seconds, traveling 546,167 miles (878,971 km) at 17,547 mph (28,239 km/h), pulling a maximum of 7.6 g (74.48 m/s²). Cooper achieved an altitude of 165.9 statute miles (267 km) at apogee.

He was the first American astronaut to sleep not only in orbit but on the launch pad during a countdown.


Towards the end of the Faith 7 flight there were mission-threatening technical problems. During the 19th orbit the capsule had a power failure, carbon dioxide levels began rising and the cabin temperature jumped to over a hundred degrees Fahrenheit.

Cooper fell back on his understanding of star patterns, took manual control of the tiny capsule and successfully estimated the correct pitch for re-entry into the atmosphere.

Cooper drew lines on the capsule window to help him check his orientation before firing the re-entry rockets. "So I used my wrist watch for time," he later recalled, "my eyeballs out the window for attitude. Then I fired my retrorockets at the right time and landed right by the carrier."

He was quite convinced till the day he died that he had seen UFOs and was a strong advocate to make the government come clean with what it knew.

There are no known records of his CIA connections. They have apparently been destroyed. These records may have shown connections to Duane Webber.

[JerryThomas 0]

Geoger Like I mentioned to you It doe's not matter what you say to Jo She will always come back with more storie's. She will allway's want to be the topic of discussion. .It never matter's to her if she is wrong. She will fabricate alligation's and never admit fault. I have done as requested. And have proven that I was right Go figure. Still Jo does have one good quality .That is that she is a great Fictional writer and her imagination is beyond reproach. Jerry

[JerryThomas 0]

Orange1 I do understand. Good luck with Jo .I have been dealing with her for years . I thought I had solved The problem with Jo year's ago. Aparently I Didn't . Jo will continue to tell her stories as long as she think's that she can be reconized as Mr.s DB Cooper and experience some notoriety. Unfotunitly. She does not realize She has already recieved a statis in this case. Still she does want to keep her name in the headline's and in this case regardless of what most people already realize. She still think's she can put enough doubt in this case to make it look like Duane was Cooper. Regardless of the evedience that has been proven against it from day one. Still she doe's continuie to try to destroy people's carrer's and live's with false alligations. This is Jo . Call it what you want. I call it her exageration of many storie's. Sorry for misunderstanding your post Jerry

[skyjack71 0]

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Geoger Like I mentioned to you It doe's not matter what you say to Jo She will always come back with more storie's. She will allway's want to be the topic of discussion. .It never matter's to her if she is wrong. She will fabricate alligation's and never admit fault. I have done as requested. And have proven that I was right Go figure. Still Jo does have one good quality .That is that she is a great Fictional writer and her imagination is beyond reproach. Jerry

What have you done to prove you are right? You never support anything - such as claiming Duane was in jail and could prove it with his records. I listed what I knew and you made no reply.

It does not take an imagination to tell the truth.
I tell the same story over and over - and just because you do not agree does NOT make it a fabrication You offered to listen and help - only if I will admit to something that is NOT true.That is no way to solve a crime...why would I need your help if I was fabricating a story?

I asked a specific question about the tie (apparatus) and you confront me unnecessarily. You are SUPPOSED to be the man who knows the answers and who has something to contribute yet you expel your energy and knowledged to engage me in confrontation...that is NOT productive. When I refrain from making statements regarding Weber - you make them about Weber and cause me to unnecessarily defend myself with repetitive post. The truth does NOT change.

Please answer the question about the Tie apparatus (I say this because it has been called tac, pin, clasp and everything, but a dangly thing.) There is a hidden message here...can you figure that one out.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

Photo #1: Training of the splashdown with a Mercury capsule in an indoor swimming-pool ("Water Tank"), foto no. S65-10157.

Photo #2: Training of the splashdown with a Mercury capsule with the astronauts Conrad and Cooper in a lake, foto no.: S65-39907.

I don't know who the man in the black hat, bowtie and black suit is, in the first photo (center of the six in the back).
He may have known Duane in prison.

Scenery is in the "Water Tank" of building no. 260 of Manned Space Center near Houston, later renamed in Johnson Space Center.

Photos show Gordon Cooper had the necessary training to survive a water landing in the Columbia.

The 3rd photo is President J.F. Kennedy before Congress on 25th May 1961 announcing the "moon landing program". Remember what was going on in Vietnam at this time, due to Kennedy also.

CIA, Kennedy, Vietnam, SOG, Moon Landing faked, Cooper, water landing.
The pieces are there.

The 4th photo shows John Glenn, JFK, and Gherman Titov (also spelled German Titow, as part of the coverup)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gherman_Titov

Gherman was the Soviet cosmonaut who was the 2nd man to orbit the Earth. Were the Soviets also involved in the Cooper hijack?

Gherman overslept in space.

"In August 1961, he was the first person to suffer from "space sickness" (i.e. motion sickness in space) and was also the first human to sleep in space. He slept roughly for one orbit, and was surprised to awake with his arms floating in the air due to the absence of gravity. After securing his arms under a security belt, he went back to sleep, overslept and awoke 30 minutes later than predicted by the flight plan. "

Was Titov taking LSD?
(edit) "A month short of 26 years old at launch, he remains the youngest person to fly in space." Why else would they send someone so young?

[JerryThomas 0]

Jo . I Don't know what else to tell you. Except That your dream world and your reality have become one. Your Like Kid's and live in dream world's and so have you since I've Known you . You continuie to suggest different reason's for why you don't remember your trip to Wa. But yet you still add new storie's to it. And come up with name's and people no one can find. Why. We all Know the truth. Please except my offer of a truce. Jerry

[skyjack71 0]

Please answer the question about the Tie apparatus (I say this because it has been called tac, pin, clasp and everything, but a dangly thing.) There is a hidden message here...can you figure that one out?

You don't know me and have never met me.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Snow, How many versions of this tie apparatus have been made available thru the different TV programs, FIOA, internet forums and the other forms of media?

I think there is a reason the FBI refrains from making a close up of the real item. I do not know that a good close-up of the real thing exists.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Snow, How many versions of this tie apparatus have been made available thru the different TV programs, FIOA, internet forums and the other forms of media?

I think there is a reason the FBI refrains from making a close up of the real item. I do not know that a good close-up of the real thing exists.

I've posted plenty of photos of the tie clasp the FBI has. There's no mystery there.

The Nat Geo show had two tie clasps. The FBI one, and another one.

How did you see the Nat Geo show Jo? I thought you had some TV problems.

[georger 244]

Quote

Quote

Snow, How many versions of this tie apparatus have been made available thru the different TV programs, FIOA, internet forums and the other forms of media?

I think there is a reason the FBI refrains from making a close up of the real item. I do not know that a good close-up of the real thing exists.

I've posted plenty of photos of the tie clasp the FBI has. There's no mystery there.

The Nat Geo show had two tie clasps. The FBI one, and another one.

How did you see the Nat Geo show Jo? I thought you had some TV problems.

Yea, her house is wrapped in tin foil.

[georger 244]

Quote

Geoger Like I mentioned to you It doe's not matter what you say to Jo She will always come back with more storie's. She will allway's want to be the topic of discussion. .It never matter's to her if she is wrong. She will fabricate alligation's and never admit fault. I have done as requested. And have proven that I was right Go figure. Still Jo does have one good quality .That is that she is a great Fictional writer and her imagination is beyond reproach. Jerry

This continual back-and-forth with Jo accomplishes
nothing and is counter productive. Silence would
be better.

You've said all there was to say long ago.

Sometimes its better to cut bait than to stir up
another episode of JAWS!



The last thing we need here are Jo and Snow posting
on sharks in the Columbia!

[JerryThomas 0]

Jo there is nothing hidden . Except a rubber ducky and some of your memory"s. On your part. Why do you want to post a queston about a tie clasp That Duane Never had.Geoger: Your right. Jerry.

[georger 244]

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Jo there is nothing hidden . Except a rubber ducky and some of your memory"s. On your part. Why do you want to post a queston about a tie clasp That Duane Never had.Geoger: Your right. Jerry.

Thanks. It's better to focus on DB Cooper and
forget about Jo Weber. It's as simple as that.

Enjoy the fresh air!

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Quote

Snow, How many versions of this tie apparatus have been made available thru the different TV programs, FIOA, internet forums and the other forms of media?

I think there is a reason the FBI refrains from making a close up of the real item. I do not know that a good close-up of the real thing exists.

I've posted plenty of photos of the tie clasp the FBI has. There's no mystery there.

The Nat Geo show had two tie clasps. The FBI one, and another one.

How did you see the Nat Geo show Jo? I thought you had some TV problems.

NO cable, but Lots of friends and family. My brother made a DVD and sent it to me, but I didn't view it until the other day. I accepted the information the forum provided, but got bored one day and watched it. I didn't see 2 tie tacs though. The little DVD player I bought is real small.

Where in this program do they show another clip besides the one with 2 pearls on it? I have one the FBI had on their site but it does Not give a close up of the clip...I have never seen a close-up of the actual clip in the possession of the FBI.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[SKYWHUFFO 1]

Call me stupid, but please explain why the clasp on a cheap tie clasp is the case solver? What is next, i think we need to send Tina and Flo pictures of pants and ask them if Cooper buttoned or snapped his pants. it could deem important why he was in the bathroom so long. yes i am being sarsastic! I compare listening to Jo and Jerry go back and forth to two 10yr olds fighting? my theory is better than your theory. is not, is to, is not, is to, is not, Well your stupid, am not, am too, am not am too! I've got three words please, IGNORE EACH OTHER!
Now I have a couple of questions if we can answer that would be great. Jerry, did you know H before the Cooper case? We all have sombody in the back of our mind we lean to as Cooper. In name only please post who you lean to if you had to place a bet on it. Jerry & Bruce, i would especially be interested to see the name you post, I am betting Jerry is leaning to Webber HA!

[snowmman 3]

3 frame grabs attached
First is later in the Nat Geo documentary, and is a shot of the FBI hoard, including the tie clasp (which we've seen closer in other venues)

Second and Third are earlier in the porn flick, showing the 2nd tie clasp (two views)

Using a SEM, I noticed there is an inscription.
"Duane Is Weber"