DB Cooper

[georger 244]

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thought I'd revisit a tie bar comparison.

Comparing that photo of the FBI tiebar I just posted, to the 5 piece mother of pearl set Cooper gave me and said to "bury 7 feet deep".
(I cropped and overlayed the two photos)

It didn't mean anything to me at the time, but it does seem like a close match.

boy this site is sure screwed up tonight!
oh well,


I mentioned that the 5 piece sets were advertised in newspapers at the time, around father's day, I noticed. They were cheap.

You are so good - how and where do you find this stuff? I thought maybe the tie tac was oval, but from what you posted with the comparisons available on the market in 1971 appears it was probably round.

Himmelsbach had said it was a pearl onlay - and we now know his description was dead on.

Not pearl. But MUTHER OF PEARL! Sheesh.

(Trivia: Guess where one major supply of mother
of pearl to industry was at this time. Somewhere
on the Mississippi around 41* N. latitude.)

[skyjack71 0]

I thought Mother of Pearl and pearl onlay where the same thing, but it seems the source of the two are different,

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 244]

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I thought Mother of Pearl and pearl onlay where the same thing, but it seems the source of the two are different,

clam shells vrs. oysters. Large difference in rarity
and price.

[snowmman 3]

Gary was pissed at the thread, and rather than posting, he made a youtube video with his thoughts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUfI8yDF6hI

[JerryThomas 0]

Georger , I do understand. Jerry

[Orange1 0]

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Orange 1 I just read this post. Yes I'll be glad to honor this request . Do you think we can make it 2 month's This I will honor. Jerry. Ps I made a post before I read your's Orange1. As of this post your request is honored. Georger I hope not to many people are offended by my statement of who Cooper was .One more thing I did start my investigation on this case In 1975 while I was on leave. It was the summer. Of that year I did not get realy involved in the case untill 1989. After I retired . Jerry.

2 months... ok, let's try! as of 16 sept! (377?)

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[georger 244]

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Georger , I do understand. Jerry

made some progress today - will report by weekend.

[skyjack71 0]

Jerry has claimed that one of the suspects Weber was in jail in Georgia during the time the Cooper Caper was committed. Doing the homework assignment - Weber was not in jail on a DUI or any other charge during the time in question. This time periods extends from Oct of 1971 to February of 1972.

If Mr. Thomas has the proof and documents supporting his claim then he needs to make them public.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[JerryThomas 0]

Orange 1 I forgot to mention that Jo will come up with made up storie's to get me to respond . Beware they will be very provocative. This is normal for those that try to make believer's out of people while trying to claim that they are right through fictional storie's . Believe me when I say that Jo's stories and claim's will become rampent. Jerry

[JerryThomas 0]

Geoger I know that you disagree. you have mentioned this before. This is normal for most . I'm sure that some day you will agree all it will take is a trip out here a walk in the wood's ,For a couple of week's .And finally but not least a jump out of a airliner with shoe's on in November. High wind's Stormy condition's. And no survival gear. Landing in a un familiar area With a 99 percent chance of a fir tree inima.Now you have to walk out of the wood's with no shoe's on soak and wet carrying a fir tree behind you. Hyperthermia has set in and maybe a broken leg or two if the parachute opened . Providing you had the chute on corectly and didn't try to deploy the chute with a X on it. And the rope you had tied around you did not cut you almost in half. . Not much chance of survival for any one. This is just a very small part of what any one would have to deal with. There is plenty more this man would have had to overcome. with in the first few minute's.Now think about what it would have taken for a person to have survived just hour's. It has been mentioned that we do not Know what he had in hidden on his person. or in a bag. or under his clothe's. I don't think it was much. No boot's or extreem survival gear. No floation device's. Yes he did smoke ,Chance's are he had a lighter. What good is that going to do you . remember People are searching for you are you going to start a fire. Only to take a chance of being spotted. However you would start a fire to survive . You decide. The only chance Cooper would have had to survive is to start a fire . This would have been spotted. To many people were involved in this search to Include private air craft and all those on the ground. Jerry Ps . I forgot to mention That if you had gone through all this you would still have the money with you. If you buried it how would bit's and pieces end up on Tina's Bar . In fragement's and only a couple of bundle's. No one would bury money close enough to a shore line knowing that the high water level would wash it out . Now remember the water level's at the time of his jump was not at flood level's.Still there is obvious indictcation's of high water level's at flood stage on all stream's in this area. Chance's are 99.9 percent chance is the money was never buried and Cooper parished on Impact.

[snowmman 3]

So Jerry.
one question (funny: you assail Jo, but your story is no different then hers..all suppositions)

Draw a flight path, that aligns with all the other info we have.

I can't understand why you don't do that. Seems simple.

For all the work you've said you've done, how come you don't do that?

[snowmman 3]

Jerry, speaking for the FBI, said "Chance's are he had a lighter"

Where did you get that lighter information? I thought everything pointed to him using matches and running out of them and Tina giving him a light from matches she had?? (edit) Ckret said this was in testimony.

How did this story of "Chance's are had a lighter" get created?

Why would chance favor that? If he did, why didn't he use it instead of having Tina light him up???

[skyjack71 0]

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Jerry has claimed that one of the suspects Weber was in jail in Georgia during the time the Cooper Caper was committed. Doing the homework assignment - Weber was not in jail on a DUI or any other charge during the time in question. This time periods extends from Oct of 1971 to February of 1972.

If Mr. Thomas has the proof and documents supporting his claim then he needs to make them public.

I just recieved a personal email from Jerry asking me yet again to "stop my lies" and that he can prove Duane was NOT Cooper. Remember his claim about proving this with the Georgia record - (CAN'T BE DONE). I don't think anything I present will ever PROVE Weber was Cooper and I challenge Jerry Thomas to do as he said he could - Let records PROVE Duane was not Cooper with his criminal record as he claimed he could do.

He should know that the FBI has already stated the DNA was probably contaminated and they do not know if the DNA they have even belonged to Cooper. The same goes for the fingerprints - they never knew if any of those prints belonged to Cooper.

Now with those things repeated for his benefit - he needs to present the other proof he claims he and the FBI have. I have already stated several times - nothing I ever say or find will be exceptable to the FBI in putting Duane on that plane - even if I produced the ticket, bag and stub. He makes an opposite claim - that he can prove Duane was NOT Cooper - something he and the FBI knows.

Jerry has repeatedly said a family member claimed Duane was with them on Nov 24th 1971 and the followingThanksgiving day. I say to the FBI and Jerry - produce it - and if they have such proof and didn't not inform me of this then SHAME ON THEM.

I can assure you it was NOT the ex-wife or her family. They are on tape stating he was NOT with them. The wife claimed they separated after she had her accident in Oct or early Nov. when she drove her car into the Admiral Benbow in the Atlanta area. The woman claims she and her family were in Lawrence, Ks on that Thankgiving and she and Duane had separated. She goes back to him in Feb of 1972 - and they purchase 2 new cars. This is documented with the tax records and photos.

If the FBI has anything from the exwife - I have tapes where she told me things she never said to the FBI. The daughter was never interviewed by the FBI, but she is on tape saying she KNEW Duane was Cooper - she asked me not to tell her mother what she told me in that conversation...she was 17 in 1971. This conversation was recorded and the FBI is aware of it.

The FBI bungled this valuable lead from the beginning by sending 2 rookies in who knew NOTHING about Cooper nor anything about the Background of this woman and Duane. I had asked them to let me go see her and for them to wire me - hoping she would repeat things some things she had told me before and maybe learning more. The FBI did it their way and you know the results. She did tell them she was NOT with him on November 24 1971 and that she was in Lawrence, Ks.

Outside of this individual and her family - I know of NO other Family Duane had. He was not with the Brother or his Sister - except she did live 13miles from where the note was sent by Cooper or prankster to the Reno newpaper from a small place near Modesto. She is the one who BEGGED me to LEAVE the PAST IN THE past and then had a heart attack which I always felt responsible for.

Yrs later I would have an opportunity to meet the Brother whom Duane had not seen since the 50's. The brother and I were to have a private conversation after dinner...while his wife intertained my husband (We were at Loma Linda for cancer treatment). While we were eating our meal - there is a call that the sister had had another attack (these are about 7 yrs apart). The brother and I never got to have our private conversation - and talking on the phone was impossible since he was basically deaf.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

I'm confused.
Duane Weber had a lighter?
How come we're talking about Duane Weber's lighter.
What did it look like?
Why is Jerry talking about Duane's lighter?
(edit) and why is Orange1 trying to get everyone to not talk about the lighter?

[skyjack71 0]

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I'm confused.
Duane Weber had a lighter?
How come we're talking about Duane Weber's lighter.
What did it look like?
Why is Jerry talking about Duane's lighter?
(edit) and why is Orange1 trying to get everyone to not talk about the lighter?

You crack me up - you make me laugh and I love it. I promised myself I would not engage in any conversation with Jerry - but the (blank) just won't let me alone. He will never be satified until I say what he wants me to say...and you all know that will never happen. If someone can prove to me Duane was NOT Cooper and present verifiable information, I will listen. The State of Ga thing wasn't true - after Jerry claimed that file would prove Duane was in jail.

I got things I need to do - because a whole bunch of things are going on at one time (regarding Cooper) and I just don't need to be here making like a broken record. Sick of repeating it. I will be back when this "stuff " we are working on can be talked about...in the mean time I will be waiting for Jerry's proof. I asked him to be productive - but he is like a dog chasing his tail - when he catches it "YELP"...

PS: I had to come back and add a little something. Just recieved this from "others" who do not post here, but they have read Jerry's emails to me.

"Jerry is again once more completely full of crap." "for all his aimless wandering in the woods he's got about as much chance of finding bigfoot as he does of finding out anything new about Cooper".

I deleted parts of that to be kind.

"Jerry claims to have proof for his allegations and wants to save them for a courtroom. If Jerry has something to take to a Court Room he better get with it."

So that you understand this last statement - in the email Jerry wants to challenge me in a court room. I have heard it all now.

These are NOT my statements but quotes from "others" who are working on my behalf...doing what Jerry and the FBI claimed to have done regarding the investigation of Weber. NO they cannot waste their valuable time in a forum - the truth is where the FBI has NOT gone.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Erroll 80]

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Geoger I know that you disagree. you have mentioned this before. This is normal for most . I'm sure that some day you will agree all it will take is a trip out here a walk in the wood's ,For a couple of week's .And finally but not least a jump out of a airliner with shoe's on in November. High wind's Stormy condition's. And no survival gear. Landing in a un familiar area With a 99 percent chance of a fir tree inima.Now you have to walk out of the wood's with no shoe's on soak and wet carrying a fir tree behind you. Hyperthermia has set in and maybe a broken leg or two if the parachute opened . Providing you had the chute on corectly and didn't try to deploy the chute with a X on it. And the rope you had tied around you did not cut you almost in half. . Not much chance of survival for any one. This is just a very small part of what any one would have to deal with. There is plenty more this man would have had to overcome. with in the first few minute's.Now think about what it would have taken for a person to have survived just hour's. It has been mentioned that we do not Know what he had in hidden on his person. or in a bag. or under his clothe's. I don't think it was much. No boot's or extreem survival gear. No floation device's. Yes he did smoke ,Chance's are he had a lighter. What good is that going to do you . remember People are searching for you are you going to start a fire. Only to take a chance of being spotted. However you would start a fire to survive . You decide. The only chance Cooper would have had to survive is to start a fire . This would have been spotted. To many people were involved in this search to Include private air craft and all those on the ground. Jerry Ps . I forgot to mention That if you had gone through all this you would still have the money with you. If you buried it how would bit's and pieces end up on Tina's Bar . In fragement's and only a couple of bundle's. No one would bury money close enough to a shore line knowing that the high water level would wash it out . Now remember the water level's at the time of his jump was not at flood level's.Still there is obvious indictcation's of high water level's at flood stage on all stream's in this area. Chance's are 99.9 percent chance is the money was never buried and Cooper parished on Impact.

All of the above is based on the assumption that Cooper landed in the woods. To my knowledge there is absolutely no conclusive evidence as to where he exited and what his LZ was.

PS. Plurals do not have apostrophies.

[georger 244]

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Geoger I know that you disagree. you have mentioned this before. This is normal for most . I'm sure that some day you will agree all it will take is a trip out here a walk in the wood's ,For a couple of week's .And finally but not least a jump out of a airliner with shoe's on in November. High wind's Stormy condition's. And no survival gear. Landing in a un familiar area With a 99 percent chance of a fir tree inima.Now you have to walk out of the wood's with no shoe's on soak and wet carrying a fir tree behind you. Hyperthermia has set in and maybe a broken leg or two if the parachute opened . Providing you had the chute on corectly and didn't try to deploy the chute with a X on it. And the rope you had tied around you did not cut you almost in half. . Not much chance of survival for any one. This is just a very small part of what any one would have to deal with. There is plenty more this man would have had to overcome. with in the first few minute's.Now think about what it would have taken for a person to have survived just hour's. It has been mentioned that we do not Know what he had in hidden on his person. or in a bag. or under his clothe's. I don't think it was much. No boot's or extreem survival gear. No floation device's. Yes he did smoke ,Chance's are he had a lighter. What good is that going to do you . remember People are searching for you are you going to start a fire. Only to take a chance of being spotted. However you would start a fire to survive . You decide. The only chance Cooper would have had to survive is to start a fire . This would have been spotted. To many people were involved in this search to Include private air craft and all those on the ground. Jerry Ps . I forgot to mention That if you had gone through all this you would still have the money with you. If you buried it how would bit's and pieces end up on Tina's Bar . In fragement's and only a couple of bundle's. No one would bury money close enough to a shore line knowing that the high water level would wash it out . Now remember the water level's at the time of his jump was not at flood level's.Still there is obvious indictcation's of high water level's at flood stage on all stream's in this area. Chance's are 99.9 percent chance is the money was never buried and Cooper parished on Impact.

You have a flight path which you feel is confirmed.
The rest of us don't have that. The rest of us have
no evidence they were 20 miles east off V23.

Now, if Rat were to issue a formal statement
they were 20 miles east off V23 which puts
Cooper near the Washougal, that might change
things?

Later -

[377 22]

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She is the one who BEGGED me to LEAVE the PAST IN THE past and then had a heart attack which I always felt responsible for.

Jo,

I used to work in the area of implantable heart defibrillators. I am no MD, but I did design some patented circuits for these devices and had to learn about heart physiology in the process.

If it makes you feel any better you didn't cause anyone to have a heart attack. Myocardial infarcations (generally called heart attacks) and fatal ventricular arrythmias (generally called sudden cardiac death) are not "caused" by emotional stress. They might be triggered by stress but they were waiting to happen anyway by virtue pre existing arterial blockage or diseased or malformed cardiac tissue.

I, however, guarantee you that I will have a heart attack if Duane is proven to be Dan Cooper ;-).

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Orange 1 I forgot to mention that Jo will come up with made up storie's to get me to respond . Beware they will be very provocative. This is normal for those that try to make believer's out of people while trying to claim that they are right through fictional storie's . Believe me when I say that Jo's stories and claim's will become rampent. Jerry

I know Jerry, be strong

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

I'm confused.
Duane Weber had a lighter?
How come we're talking about Duane Weber's lighter.
What did it look like?
Why is Jerry talking about Duane's lighter?
(edit) and why is Orange1 trying to get everyone to not talk about the lighter?

SSSSSHHHHHH Snow, aw c'mon, we have managed to keep the lighter conspiracy a secret for almost 38 years now. This has taken a great effort on the part of very many people throughout the FBI, CIA, paid-off journalists, SOG and SF operatives, local police forces, and various governments. We have had to destroy some evidence, burn (ahem) other evidence, lose yet more; whisk witnesses away to far-off climes where no-one could track them down; and spent a long time surfing the internet to ensure our crack team of cyber-operatives removed every publicly available picture of lighters. I beg of you, please, please, don't ruin it all now in the name of some fanciful notion called "the truth"...

-------------

PS Errol, I gave up on the grammar on this website a while ago, but nice to see you trying )

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

Hmm.
Is it
Ladies' room,
or
Lady's room,
or
Ladies room,
or
Jerry Thomas's room?

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Hmm.
Is it
Ladies' room,
or
Lady's room,
or
Ladies room,
or
Jerry Thomas's room?

Ladies' room, as I suspect you well know.
Surprising for an American, you got " Thomas's " !right

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[377 22]

When Snow uses the back door he designed into the FBI server chips and retrieves the "suppressed" lighter photos could he please also liberate the suppressed inmate smoke jumper photos too?

Jerry, I agree there is a good chance that Cooper died the night of the jump, but how could such a disappearance go unnoticed for so long? Somebody would miss someone, a landlord, a relative, a neighbor etc. Some parked car would become impounded. Some bank account would go dormant. Someone would put two and two together especially if the missing person looked like the sketch and was unaccounted for on the night of the hijack.

I think even a whuffo might have been able to get the canopy out. That would just be the start of his troubles, but he would likely land alive. I just dont know enough to predict whether he could have survived the night. You say no, Snow says yes and offered (for a fee/bet) to replicate the land part of the jump in comparable clothing terrain and weather.

I am confident I could land alive on a similar jump with similar gear, but good chance of a tree snag, rock landing, broken leg/ankle etc. Hypothermia seems like a real risk. I just have no idea on my chances for making it out alive.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Jerry, I agree there is a good chance that Cooper died the night of the jump, but how could such a disappearance go unnoticed for so long? Somebody would miss someone, a landlord, a relative, a neighbor etc. Some parked car would become impounded. Some bank account would go dormant. Someone would put two and two together especially if the missing person looked like the sketch and was unaccounted for on the night of the hijack.

See, now, if Ckret hadn't been run out of Dodge we could ask him stuff. I bet there were hundreds, at least, of missing person reports of men of approximately the right age filed in the US in the weeks after the hijacking. Would they all have been looked at as potential Coopers, especially if they were from way further afield and had no connection to skydiving?
What if Cooper was Canadian?
What if Cooper was based in Asia? (or Belgium, or Africa or wherever)
How many people have just run from debt and responsibility and disappeared - if Cooper was in say financial trouble, people might just have assumed he'd done a runner and maybe not even bother reporting him. Example:
"So, where's that no-good husband of yours?"
"well, i know we were fighting a lot but I didn't really think he'd up and leave like he threatened to... ah well, good riddance"
"you gonna be able to pay your rent?"
"well he wasn't working, i was paying it all anyway. at least we don't have kids, no reason to ever need to look for that no-good rascal"

... so 377 while I do see your point, I also think it would not necessarily be the case that a missing persons report would lead to Cooper, or indeed that one would even necessarily have been filed.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

no idea what the figure was by the end of 1971, or how long a report stays 'active' for. for sure a lot more people are found than remain missing, but the outstanding number is still very high:

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By the end of 2005, there were 109,531 active missing person records according to the US Department of Justice.

And then, equally relevant, is the "unreported missing" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreported_missing:

Quote

One of the main reasons that families cannot have the police or other organizations report their missing relative or friend is that a person over the age of 18 does have the right to privacy and confidentiality and can be voluntarily missing.

People can become unreported missing for a variety of reasons, including:
- the lost/missing person may be estranged from family or friends;
- law enforcement may not take a "missing person" report;
- the lost/missing person may be in the country illegally;
- the person may be an unknown dependent child of an unreported missing adults or teens; or
- the person might be the victim of an undiscovered crime

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.