DB Cooper

[377 22]

Good logical points Orange... even more so if Cooper were domiciled abroad.

A homeless guy got killed in a nearby town recently and the cops had a hell of a time figuring out who he was. Nobody claimed him as a relative, no ID, etc etc. They are pretty sure they know who he was now, but it illustrates the point.

I actually think Snow could survive the night just fueled by the willpower to prove Jerry wrong.

Jumping Saturday. Boogie at Byron CA DZ. jump orices for the boogie are expected to be $20 to 13K +.

We are so lucky to get to particpate in an air sport for peanuts. We are so lucky there are people insane enough to be DZOs.

Sad times though, three VERY experienced CRW dawgs wrapped and two of them went in at Lodi CA last weekend.

http://www.lodinews.com/articles/2009/09/15/news/1_dive_090915.txt

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

When Snow uses the back door he designed into the FBI server chips and retrieves the "suppressed" lighter photos could he please also liberate the suppressed inmate smoke jumper photos too?

What's funny, is about a month ago, I spent time researching collectible vietnam-era lighters. Apparently there were some SOG lighters (probably made by local craftsman) with various kinds of engravings.

As you would expect, there are now a lot of counterfeits. So the collectors have some opinions about how to identify fake vs real vietnam era engraved lighters.

The story I'm pitching to Nat Geo, is that Cooper flicked his lighter for lighting Tina's smoke. She never mentioned it, but a repressed memory surfaced when I showed her pictures of typical SOG engraved lighters.....she yelled "OMG...Cooper was Duane"

(when 377 dies of a heart attack..Jo will say "See: evidence that Duane was Cooper)

[snowmman 3]

referencing
http://www.nia.nih.gov/NR/rdonlyres/B47E2C81-3AA6-4439-A07B-246820102223/1991/hypothermia.jpg

In 2001, the rate of death due to hypothermia, for the 40-49 age group, was about 2 per million (in the age group). In the U.S.

The age-adjusted rate is important. Hypothermia death rate is higher for older.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

The story I'm pitching to Nat Geo, is that Cooper flicked his lighter for lighting Tina's smoke. She never mentioned it, but a repressed memory surfaced when I showed her pictures of typical SOG engraved lighters.....she yelled "OMG...Cooper was Duane"

(when 377 dies of a heart attack..Jo will say "See: evidence that Duane was Cooper)

Best laugh yet.
Got something to add - Don't forget that personal car tag Cooper sported - FLIC

This is funny to me because you used the word flicked.
FLIC stands for Family Life Insurance Company and we actually did have a Colorado Tag using FLIC.
On a trip to Wy. a group of young men passed us Flicking their lighters and holding their thumbs up. They were referring to the popular expression of the time - Flick your Bic.

Just one of those "memories" I am accused of creating. A trigger word - brings back memories and this is common.

I have NO stories about lighters other than the FLIC story that occurred many yrs after the Cooper Caper.

BUT, we could talk about antique lighter covers. Ornate covers and other covers - sold as souveniers and others in precious metals to the very rich.
Most lighters of the day (1971) used lighter fluid...

This reminds me of the little ornate snuff boxes of the 1800's and early 1900's that later generations used for cocain and now are highly collectible. Also the match holders - tight and waterproof to hold a precious few matches, but small enough to be carried in the pocket of ones britches.


I had not even remembered these subjects and items until the trigger word - but I have no memory of anything related to the Cooper Caper regarding Lighters.

Cooper could have had a lighter, but it either ran out of fluid or he wanted to save his fuel for the landing? Possible? If he was going to use the road flares to signal his accomplice, he would need a lighter - matches would have gotten wet. The theory about the flares being used for signals has been suggested - BUT, we forgot to think about HOW he would light them with WET matches.

Also it takes two hands to light a match with a folder for most people. If Cooper did that he could have been subject to someone grabbing the brief case and his bomb.

NOW, you guys KNOW I HATE to agree with anything Jerry says, but this is ONE subject we as a forum have never given a lot of thought to. Hopefully Jerry will respect this insite enough to leave me alone and allow subjects like this to be explored without using this valuable tool (the thread) to bash or discredit me without providing documentation.

When reasonable explanations have been provided for something I just "thought" could have been - I have stated my appreciations. What I saw with my own eyes, held in my hands and was shown to me and those things I hold documentation on - I hold unrelentingly steadfast.

Jerry, you have never provided those Georgia files you CLAIMED would show Duane was in Jail at the time of the crime - because they DO NOT EXIST...!

Now you claim Duane had an alibi for November 24, 1971, but if the FBI ever had an alibi provided by a second party further investigation would have showned the statement was incorrect OR the investigation would not have continued to encompass DNA and fingerprints and to include a challenge on TV in 2001 with Doug Pasternac. The FBI would have stated to the public - that they had documented proof Weber could NOT have been in Wa. on November 24, 1971, but that was never done.

Do you have 15 ft of research? ASK Sluggo how much I had in 2008...and that doesn't include what I have on disks.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

Jo-

I said:
"when I showed her pictures of typical SOG engraved lighters.....she yelled "OMG...Cooper was Duane""

Then you told the story of the FLIC license plate in Colorado.

Yes, that's how Tina knew Cooper was Duane. She knew Duane got that vanity plate, because of the lighter episode on the flight and the double reference to the insurance company he worked for.

One of the profiles created by the Beowulf cluster that analyzes Cooper said "Cooper is likely to purchase vanity plates containing the initials of the company he works for, which is likely an insurance company".

Jerry Thomas also knew the FLIC story. Which is why he accidently mentioned that Cooper probably had a lighter.

It was not a Bic. It was a Zippo.

Snowmman Industries is selling authorized replicas of the Cooper/Weber lighter on ebay.

Jo: your memories of lighters has been repressed. This is a good verification that lighters are the key element that connects Duane as Cooper.

That, and Jerry's reference.

[377 22]

Quote

Snowmman Industries is selling authorized replicas of the Cooper/Weber lighter on ebay.

Really Snow, make some. I'll buy one.

Not much intersting Cooper stuff on eBay these days.

http://cgi.ebay.com/DB-Cooper-Poster-Old-Great-One-D.B.-D.-B.-D-B_W0QQitemZ390092155380QQcmdZViewItem

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

Quote

Jo: your memories of lighters has been repressed. This is a good verification that lighters are the key element that connects Duane as Cooper.

There must be constant pressure on Jo. When I, Orange and Jerry back off, Snow rushes in to fill the vacuum. Georger could model it with an equation. It is a closed loop system.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

I never realized that the movie scene where Major Kong straddles the bomb on the way out of the airplane, actually had a real life event in 1958 like that. (the movie was 1964)

What I'm thinking is maybe Cooper was a bombardier from an Air Force plane that carried nuclear weapons, in the late 50's?
Specifically Kukla. Why would he stay out of country?

"Kukla now resides in Thailand and when visiting the states stays on the West Coast in a hotel. He does not respond to questions for an interview."

Also, the name of the operation: "Operation Snow Flurry"

Here's the evidence: (note the reference to oxygen.)

"As the person responsible for the bomb, Kukla was instructed by the pilot to go back there and figure out what is wrong. Because the bomb bay compartment is not pressurized the entire plane had to be depressurized and the whole crew had to go on oxygen.

The space in the plane where the bomb is stored is very tight. In fact, it was so small a space Kukla could not wear a parachute back there. The 7,600 pound bomb with dimensions of 10 feet, 8 inches long and 61 inches in diameter was just about as large as the inside of the B-47E.

Kukla had to blindly reach up and try to re-insert the pin. Now remember, this place is cramped, Kukla can't even see what he is doing and he is hauling around an oxygen tank.

Turns out that instead of the pin Kukla grabs the emergency-release lever. The bomb drops onto the bomb bay doors with Kukla on top of the bomb. The co-pilot would later remark, "I wouldn't even try to imagine what he was feeling in those seconds."

With the combined weight of Kukla and the bomb, the doors give way and the bomb and Kukla begin to drop. Having better luck now Kukla manages to grab onto something and stop his fall towards Earth.

After, pulling himself back into the plane Kukla notifies the pilot of what has transpired. As per Air Force regulations, the pilot has a special code to transmit back to base in this case of an accidental drop. Because the procedure had never been used the operations center at Hunter Air Force Base did not recognize the coded transmission. As a final resort the pilot was forced to radio into Florence airport, six miles from Mars Bluff, and ask them to telephone Hunter and notify them that Aircraft 35-1876A had lost a "device".

Meanwhile, on the ground at the Gregg Family property. The bomb was impacting.

The explosion was not a full nuclear explosion. Thankfully, Air Force policy is such that at peacetime, the fissionable nuclear core of the weapon is to be stored elsewhere in the aircraft, in what is called a "birdcage". The explosion injured all five members of the Walter Gregg family and destroyed practically everything standing.

Mrs. Gregg was sewing on the front porch; her son and husband were in the tool shed. The two Gregg girls were 65 feet from where the bomb struck, playing with their cousin Ella Davis at the playhouse their father had constructed for them.


Ella was to receive 31 stitches and was the only one who had to stay overnight at the Florence hospital. That evening at the hospital was when Walter Gregg learned that the explosion was from an Air Force bomb."

more detail:
http://historyonair.com/?page_id=6&id=1

also:
http://www.rense.com/general45/Manrec.htm

All mentions of Kukla's cigarette lighter apparently have been suppressed.

[georger 244]

Quote

When Snow uses the back door he designed into the FBI server chips and retrieves the "suppressed" lighter photos could he please also liberate the suppressed inmate smoke jumper photos too?

Jerry, I agree there is a good chance that Cooper died the night of the jump, but how could such a disappearance go unnoticed for so long? Somebody would miss someone, a landlord, a relative, a neighbor etc. Some parked car would become impounded. Some bank account would go dormant. Someone would put two and two together especially if the missing person looked like the sketch and was unaccounted for on the night of the hijack.

I think even a whuffo might have been able to get the canopy out. That would just be the start of his troubles, but he would likely land alive. I just dont know enough to predict whether he could have survived the night. You say no, Snow says yes and offered (for a fee/bet) to replicate the land part of the jump in comparable clothing terrain and weather.

I am confident I could land alive on a similar jump with similar gear, but good chance of a tree snag, rock landing, broken leg/ankle etc. Hypothermia seems like a real risk. I just have no idea on my chances for making it out alive.

377

It all comes down to where he landed, doesnt it?
Which depends on Flight Path...

I never would have dreamed there would be
so much uncertainty (debate) over the flight path,
even in 1971. Trailed by two jets no less. He'lo
intercept en route. Continental flight overhead on
know trajectory and altitude etc all known. And
they dsont know where flight #305 was at 8:10-
8:15 ? This could ONLY happen on the Letterman
Show!

[georger 244]

Quote

Quote

Jo: your memories of lighters has been repressed. This is a good verification that lighters are the key element that connects Duane as Cooper.

There must be constant pressure on Jo. When I, Orange and Jerry back off, Snow rushes in to fill the vacuum. Georger could model it with an equation. It is a closed loop system.

377

Nature abhores a vacuum. That explains Jo.
Nature abhores two vacuums. That explains Snow.

[skyjack71 0]

The only one we haven't heard from is Jerry. He will probably say the dummy "bomb" never hit the farm and that the FLIC story is made up.

Orange, are you having fun?

Here is another thought - maybe Gerry has PROOF Weber is not Cooper, because the gender bender was Cooper.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

Jo said "Now for a serious moment - Cooper could have had a lighter for the very reasons I stated about the bomb and lighting a match with one hand."

True story.
Guy walked into a bar.
Came right up in my face.
and did this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSQHP5NmisM

I said "Are you Cooper?"
He said "FLIC off!"
I said "Are you Cooper?"
He said "The dog knew."
I said "Are you Cooper?"
He said "In space, you can't smoke Raleighs."

That's how I found out.
He told me.

(edit) I like articles that turn the everyday into something bizarre.
Here's a good one. "Learning to Smoke" (when you're 46)
http://www.esquire.com/features/learning-to-smoke-0308

"This is serious stuff. And you're not taking it seriously."

Yes. Exactly.

[snowmman 3]

So I'm talking to the Nat Geo guys, and they're pressing me.

"So, you found Cooper's room."

I look at them.

"It was what, an old apartment?"

"Not sure", I say.

"Well, what was in it."

"Nothing."

"What do you mean, nothing? Nothing has nothing. There had to be something."

I shrug my shoulders. A streetlight flickered above the sidewalk in Old Town. I could see the drawbridge towers over on I-5. I really wanted to see the drawbridge go up and down again. Why green? There's enough green here. Why paint more?

"There was nothing. I took pics though. Fifty for all of them."

Smiles. Things were going to be good again.

It'd be better with Roman though. It always was.

(attached)

FSN 6505-515-1584

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Quote

Jo: your memories of lighters has been repressed. This is a good verification that lighters are the key element that connects Duane as Cooper.

There must be constant pressure on Jo. When I, Orange and Jerry back off, Snow rushes in to fill the vacuum. Georger could model it with an equation. It is a closed loop system.

377

I was wondering about that myself Ah well. At least Georger hasn't succumbed

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[SKYWHUFFO 1]

I am buying off on Georger's thought! The whole thing comes down to flightpath. How can you search 2 states post volcano eruption (mt St. Helens) and expect to find anything with a large search area. The flight path has to be narrowed to even have a chance to find anything. As far a we know the flight path and DZ could have been my backyard here in Southern Indiana. Once again Sarcasim sorry. Jerry, I am here in corn country Indiana, just old enough to remember Mt. St Helens, so i don't know the territory there other than TV and maps. Don't you think the eruption would have pretty much sealed any chance of finding anything. The next thing to figure out and consider is how much difference in LZ areas would the difference in 1 or 2 minutes exit time make at that speed. IF he left the plane at 8:10 vs 8:13 could mean the difference of 30 to 50 miles ground distance conservativley at the exit speed and wind. I spot visually when jumping or rely on the pilots GPS and Green light. Georger, you have the data how much difference is it? Next question i can't find the answer to is, once the plane landed did the crew search the plane or just leave it to the FBI?
I personally still am not satisified the question has been answered I brought up a long time ago here. How do we know Cooper ever even existed???? Nothing has ever been found to support the exit of the plane via the rear stairs. sombody lowers the stairs and tosses the parachutes and never jumps is also plauseable, which goes back to the question about flight path is Jerry looking in the right place to find these chutes. To me too many things don't add up with the plane and the info provided by the crew, from the flight path, to descriptions of what was going on and how they reported it, to the description of Cooper, to the diappearing after the incident Tina pulled after the incident, what better place to keep a secret. People are trying to prove who Cooper was maybe till these gaps are filled in maybe we need to ask if Cooper should be plural? Since i babbled here, Georger you are totally right and I think Sluggo you should jump back in here on this subject again, The flight path is a key element if Jerry or anyone is to find anything that was not buried.

[Orange1 0]

Shana Tova to those of you who celebrate it! May you have a sweet new year.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[377 22]

See below. The orbital path of this multispectral imager spysat (cleverly disguised as a ham radio-university research project) goes right over the Washougal.

It is rumored that Snowmman Industries had a "black" payload loaded at Kazakhstan by Slovenian launch techs who performed a covert swap-out by removing KwaZulu's VLF module. Hmmmm....

*************************************

SB SPACE ARL ARLS007
ARLS007 South African Amateur Radio Payload Reaches Orbit

After several delays, South Africa's SumbandilaSat satellite finally
blasted to orbit aboard a Soyuz rocket from the Baikonur Cosmodrome
in Kazakhstan on September 16. The main payload is a multi-spectral
imager, but the satellite also carries an Amateur Radio component
consisting of a 2 meter/70 cm FM repeater.

After SumbandilaSat is fully commissioned, the repeater will be
activated with an uplink at 145.880 MHz and a downlink at 435.350
MHz; there will also be a voice beacon at 435.300 MHz. The
transponder mode will be controlled by a CTCSS tone on the uplink
frequency. The CTCSS tone frequencies have yet to be announced.

SumbandilaSat was sponsored by the Department of Science and
Technology and was built at SunSpace in cooperation with the
Stellenbosch University.

In addition to the SA-AMSAT amateur module, the satellite carries
Stellenbosch University's radiation experiment and software defined
radio (SDR) project, an experiment from Nelson Mandela Metropolitan
University and a VLF radio module from the University of
KwaZulu-Natal.
NNNN
/EX

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

377, you almost got it right.

http://www.makeyev.ru/main/invcoop/
"You are welcome to make use of SRC services on the basis of creative and mutually beneficial cooperation."

So I’m drinking vodka with Vladimir Degtyar at the the Makeyev State Rocket Centre.
And telling him how I loved the scene in Dr. Strangelove where Major Kong rides the bomb.
I say I know a guy, 377, who’s practicing with O2 and could recreate it if Vladimir let us borrow a bomber.
For icing I throw in “Plus I can pay for it with South African gold.”

Vladmir laughs and says that’s nothing.

He says ‘You bring your American, and he can trying riding a rocket out of the back of a 727”.

I spew my vodka “What???” generating a fireball when the candle on the table lights it.
Vladmir continues “Your CIA. We make for them a ICBM they can fire out the back of a 727…You know it?”

http://www.makeyev.ru/rocspace/nwcoscmp/

I mutter “oh yeah, yeah, that one.. sure that’ll work.” And try to change the conversation back to the old days and Flight 305.

Well to make a long story short, I wake up with a headache, and find I’ve bought a Volna.
And I couldn’t back off on my B.S. so 377, you have a date for a very HAHO rocket jump.
They don’t speak English too well, but you’ll be okay.

So, back in the US, we drive 3000 miles on I-80 towing the Volna (attached pic) behind a Ford Super Duty.

We get pulled over in Indiana for going over the 55mph trailer towing limit.
The officer asked what we’re towing.
We said "It's a submarine launched rocket based on the RSM-50, capable of launching payloads into near earth orbits. We just bought it from some Russians".
He says “Commercial or private?”
I say “Private”
He said "Well, keep it under 55."
As we pulled away I yelled “Damn that Obama, he’s making us all socialists with his health care program”.

[377 22]

Wonderful Snow! This moritorium on Jo bashing is bringing out some really fun stuff.

Did you know that the C 133 was used in air launched ICBM tests? Right out the HUGE tailgate.

I think they only did static extraction/drops, no rocket firings.

I have my oxygen gear ready to go. Just trying to figure out how I'll attach myself to the RSM 50. Slim Pickens was riding a ballistic vehicle. I assume you want a rocket firing.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

BTW some guy on dropzone.com bribed Russian AF pilots to let him jump from an operational TU 95 Bear strategic bomber!!! I am so jealous.

You can search and find his post.

As Snow knows, the question over there isn't "can we ... ?"

The only question is: "how much?"

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

We may never know Cooper's exit point but why didn't the USAF SAGE radar give us an unambiguous track of the NWA 727 flight path?

This may have been answered thousands of posts ago.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

I it is OK to bash me - Jerry can dish it out but he can't take it.

What gives with his lighter story and his statement about the Georgia criminal files PROVING Duane was in jail ... NOT so and he knows this and he knows he cannot prove it.

I would be interested in what he has to say for himself about the lighter comment .

The Midnight Sun in Altanta Georgia 1966 - 1971 - does anyone know how to find out who owned or had specific interests in this place during that time frame.
I am looking for specific names and will only state these might begin with F,T,L and R - only one is important and chose the others at random.

So much is going on right now and it is overwhelming. A key could be hidden in the Midnight Sun...No not a real key but a key.
I have been reading OLD files from 1999 and 2000. Amazing what I am finding that has been just pushed asided - didn't mean anything back then as I was researching anything Duane ever talked about...and my first access to a computer.

Enquiries are now being fielded (by others) regarding things I pushed aside and trudged unknowingly on and forward. I had so many things I planned on doing today and ended up spending the entire day on Cooper.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 244]

Slim Pickens was riding a ballistic vehicle. I assume you want a rocket firing.

377

[georger 244]

Quote

I am buying off on Georger's thought! The whole thing comes down to flightpath. How can you search 2 states post volcano eruption (mt St. Helens) and expect to find anything with a large search area. The flight path has to be narrowed to even have a chance to find anything. As far a we know the flight path and DZ could have been my backyard here in Southern Indiana. Once again Sarcasim sorry. Jerry, I am here in corn country Indiana, just old enough to remember Mt. St Helens, so i don't know the territory there other than TV and maps. Don't you think the eruption would have pretty much sealed any chance of finding anything. The next thing to figure out and consider is how much difference in LZ areas would the difference in 1 or 2 minutes exit time make at that speed. IF he left the plane at 8:10 vs 8:13 could mean the difference of 30 to 50 miles ground distance conservativley at the exit speed and wind. I spot visually when jumping or rely on the pilots GPS and Green light. Georger, you have the data how much difference is it? Next question i can't find the answer to is, once the plane landed did the crew search the plane or just leave it to the FBI?
I personally still am not satisified the question has been answered I brought up a long time ago here. How do we know Cooper ever even existed???? Nothing has ever been found to support the exit of the plane via the rear stairs. sombody lowers the stairs and tosses the parachutes and never jumps is also plauseable, which goes back to the question about flight path is Jerry looking in the right place to find these chutes. To me too many things don't add up with the plane and the info provided by the crew, from the flight path, to descriptions of what was going on and how they reported it, to the description of Cooper, to the diappearing after the incident Tina pulled after the incident, what better place to keep a secret. People are trying to prove who Cooper was maybe till these gaps are filled in maybe we need to ask if Cooper should be plural? Since i babbled here, Georger you are totally right and I think Sluggo you should jump back in here on this subject again, The flight path is a key element if Jerry or anyone is to find anything that was not buried.

good post - you probably wont get anyone
to respond. Good luck -

[377 22]

Quote

Slim Pickens was riding a ballistic vehicle. I assume you want a rocket firing.

377

nope, it was a hydrogen bomb dropped from a B52.