DB Cooper

[georger 244]

Quote

As far as I can tell, there were no black bills when the money was found.

Originally, the Fazio tale talked about "black shards"

I notice "black" isn't in Bruce's report.

Do we all agree, from the limited photos we have, and the report of unknown provenance from georger, that the bills were not black when found?

Remember my long discourse on how many, and which bills were black, and when.

I've never heard money described as a shard.
What exactly does shards of money look like? Is it curled up? Rotted in a sandy ball? Dry and flakey?

Porcelain like?

(edit) Did Fazio personally recover any shard? How did he know they weren't shards of something else? Could he see green/white? But Ingram didn't recognize bills till he cleared the junk from them? How did Fazio recognize bill shards?

How did Fazio recognise the feds?
How did Fazio recognise Blue Bunny?
How did Fazio recognise Fazio!?

[snowmman 3]

Quote

If the FBI can't find real terrorists then what's wrong with manufacturing some? Ya got a problem with that Snow?

I mean those guys might have become real terrorists on their own. Who can prove otherwise? What's wrong with giving them a little push?

377

I can't imagine people really believing someone is going to sell them C-4 or Stinger missiles in the US, in Newburgh, NY.

If you set up a big business, I wonder how many fake Stinger missiles you could sell in the US? I mean...bring on all comers.

What do you do if you sell 10,000?
Ka-ching! You earn a profit, is what you do.

SMMI: we aim to please, so you don't have to.

(edit) Real Stingers are always given away free..asking for money is the tipoff of a setup.

Photo attached:
An Afghan fighter with a C.I.A.-supplied Stinger missile in late 1987 or early 1988, during the war against the Soviet Union.
“We were handing them out like lollipops,” an American intelligence official later said.

How many Stingers recovered from Afghanistan can fit on a C-123K?

(edit) from http://books.google.com/books?id=ToYxFL5wmBIC&dq=steve+coll+ghost+wars&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=eZUVSqO2F82Dtgfa7LzbDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7#PPA12,M1

"Between 2,000 and 2,500 missiles had been given away by the C.I.A. to Afghan rebels during the war. Many had gone to commanders associated with anti-American radical Islamist leaders [...]

Pakistan’s intelligence service handled most of the repurchases on a subcontract basis for the C.I.A. earning an authorized commission for each missile collected [...]

The total cash spent by the C.I.A. on Stinger repurchases during the mid-1990s rivaled the total cash donations by other sections of the U.S. government for other humanitarian assistance in Afghanistan during those years by the American government."

"The going rate per missile ranged between $80,000 and $150,000 (repurchase)"

(edit) the current market:
http://www.fas.org/programs/ssp/asmp/MANPADS.html
Man-Portable Air Defense System (MANPADS) Proliferation
"There are an estimated 500,000 MANPADS in the world today, many thousands of which are thought to be on the black market and therefore accessible to terrorists and other non-state actors."

Here's a DHS slide deck on a counter-MANPADS proposal...Ka-ching!
http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2008homest/manpad.pdf

[skyjack71 0]

Bruce stated regarding his conversation with Fazio:

Quote

Quote

Once he cleared that up, he headed to the beach and saw lots of shards scattered along the high-tide line. Al says the bundle of bills was found just below the high-tide line, and Al is passionate when he says, "They washed in. They were buried there by the tide."

Quote

The next day Tuesday, the feds asked Al and Richard to get their backhoes out and start digging. Al is adamant that no pieces of Cooper money were found beneath the surface of Tina's Beach.

=======================

God Love you Bruce - Thank Heavens someone beside me has heard almost these same words. This is very close to what was told to the crew - I didn't hear all of Fazio's conversation - I got mad and left after the crew wanted me to pretend this was the place Duane took me.

I am not sure this is the same Fazio brother who was there for the documentary - because I forgot the name, but the documentary should name him.
Regardless they tell the story the same - time adds things and subtracts things - (give us a break we are all 70+ with a lot of mileage).

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

I am afraid to even make a post in regards to the things you are doing because then you might get ignored the same way I do.

"My Guy" is also doing ground work, but in another state right now. He was looking for old pictures and records, but was referred to several other places to view the rest of the files.

There is so much history that has been buried, archived, scattered thur out the Universities and just plain lost.
Reconstructing what seemed to be un-important things from the 40's and 50's is task of enormous undertaking, but we are trying.

A lot has been learned in the last few wks, but we are not ready to make any statements.
I will tell you this - the FBI did NOT investigate Duane Weber.
If they did - it was not much more than a cursory look back but, ,the interviews done by the FBI regarding the van, his friends and associates here in this area seemed to be thorough,

Where the screw-up is - other agents who had NO knowledge of Cooper who interviewed an ex-wife. This is the only physical interview outside of local inteviews I know they did. Phone (only) interviews where done on the others I provided them and some were NEVER contacted.

As for phyical interviews with the family - they had nothing they were willing to offer and the brother had NOT seen Duane since the 40's except for the time he supposedly order Duane out of his mother's home in the late 50's, but he himself did not remember this incident. The sister was very protective of Duane and begged me to leave the past in the past - I never understood this. If she had something to offer that would have convinced me Duane was NOT Cooper - it makes sense she would have presented it to me at that time.

Duane was an embarrassment to his family - but, I find it strange that the only member of his family he made any attempts to contact was his sister. He would call her, but never tell her where he was or give her an address - until about 1984 - when he learned the kidney disease was on the march again and advancing to another stage.

It looks like my having to go to WA and CA are inevitable, but I had hoped it could be done without me being there. The FBI doesn't want to solve this case.
One agent told me very recently that the CASE is CLOSED. They are taking NO NEW evidence unless you want to send them a long detailed letter - which I know will go into file 13. I am not providing them with the details of our own investigation, but had only one question to ask them about the early stage of their own investigation.

This was a simple question, because they immediately went to California looking for Cooper because of leads they received. All leads took them to the places my guy is looking...and the background of Duane took us there. The FBI's search in Ca resulted in NO suspect, because the individuals investigated came up with:

1. deceased
2. No physical resemblance to Cooper
3. Had a solid alibi
4. Unable to Locate

If the FBI will relook at those files they refuse to make public and those names - they will find they go right back to Weber. This one simple thing the FBI can do - they refuse to do.

So what does the refusal of the FBI to examine these records do - cause one widow and many others countless loss of time and expensive research - the FBI has right in their files and accessible. Sure we can pull names out of a hat for them to correlate their names with, but they need to re-examine those files and after all these yrs make those names public - after all they checked out - right?. So the FBI is not exposing anyone with this disclosure. Remember Cooper would be about 83 now .

Those names in the files of the FBI CA/OR investigation of Cooper are the FBI's salvation, but they will need to act quickly.
Of course they do nothing, but sit on their hands and the agent of record spends his free time playing super sleuth on a thread from which he took credit for the revealing of the "Dan Cooper Comics" on the FBI site.

Now I am being like some others in this forum, but I hope if the FBI reads this they get their you know what in gear. If they can't do this one simple thing - how can they protect anyone? In fact it doesn't need a FBI agent - just a lowly clerk with access to the files.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

Quote

Jo writes:. The FBI doesn't want to solve this case.

I really disagree Jo. They don't want to solve the case the way YOU want them to, but saying that the FBI doesn't want to solve one of the greatest crime mysteries of the 20th century is absurd.

Ckret would be deservedly world famous if he solved NORJACK. You really think he would ignore relevant probative evidence? You do, I don't.

I've taken the pledge not to bash you. This isn't a bash. I hope you are enjoying the new atmosphere in the forum as much as I am.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

Quote

Any FBI clerks out there need to make a extra buck or two?

Careful Jo. It's a federal crime. I am sure you were making the offer in jest.

People, including attorneys, were federally prosecuted for slipping patent office clerks a couple of bucks to expedite requests to make copies of files that were public record.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

Individuals like Sluggo and Jerry and Georger claim to have such a close relationship with the FBI - why don't you guys ask about the CA and OR names given as suspects in the early part of the investigation?

What was the result of each investigative effort on these guys. Did they ever ask about Idently theft (it wasn't called that back in the 70's)? Did anyone of them act upset? How many of them were deceased prior to 1971 automatically taking them off the list - but the FBI forgot to find out if anyone else might have used that persons identity.
Did they interview any of these deceased individuals - past referencing the time frame of the connecting information.

Such as: I served with John Doe in WW11 and he was in my unit in Belgium. I don't know what happened to him, but that joker looked like Cooper and his name was "John Doe".

Dead Senario:
So the FBI pulls up this guys name and guess what he died - pick a date (1964). Can't be Cooper. BUT, what if the real Cooper had taken John Doe's place in 1944 or after and participated in Belgium. When he got back stateside - they change places again. Cooper pulls the caper and one of John Doe's old army buddy thought it was him...did the FBI verify the man in Belguim was the man who died...using photos. You know they didn't.

Alive Senario:
Now, on the other hand if the call had resulted in John Doe not being deceased, but having an alibi such as being with his family and with photos on that day in 1971. One would expect he was relative nervous about being questioned, but this John Doe knew who Cooper was because Cooper had changed places with him in the 40's. He didn't know how to contact Cooper or if he was still alive until Cooper contacted him in 1990 (blackmail).

Cooper was ill and needed money. If John Doe didn't provide for him he would reveal what they did in 1944 destroying John Does' life as he knew it, subjecting him to military and criminal prosecution. Revealing the trangression of 1944 or 1945 would destroy all that John Doe held dear. John Doe bellies up 50K to Cooper in 1990. Cooper dies in March of 1995, but John Doe lives with the fear of disclosure. Maybe he died the same yr the real Cooper died or

Georger you know the means I am kidding and everyone else does - so chill out.

A story is just a story unless someone proves it. Oh, that was a wink wasn't it?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Farflung 0]

22 Sept 09 - Associated Press

HOPKINS ACADEMY GRANT, Maine — Maine State Police say an Air Force parachute that possibly came from a C-45 cargo plane that crashed 53 years ago has been found in a rugged region of rural Maine.
Lt. Wesley Hussey says the fully packed and unopened parachute with a 1952 tag was discovered two weeks ago in Hopkins Academy Grant, near Millinocket.
Wesley told the Bangor Daily News that the Air Force suspects the parachute came from a cargo plane that crashed in 1956 while en route to the former Loring Air Force Base in northern Maine. He said as the aircraft was going down, the pilot and co-pilot were throwing things out in an apparent attempt to lighten the load.
The plane ended up crashing in Millinocket, killing the pilot.

[377 22]

Poor guys. They should have jumped.

I've jumped many times from surplus C 45s, the military version of the Beech 18.

Now we have a data point on the survivability of unopened military rigs dropped from high altitudes and left undiscovered.

There is definitely some Cooper gear out there awaiting discovery.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Quote

Any FBI clerks out there need to make a extra buck or two?

Careful Jo. It's a federal crime. I am sure you were making the offer in jest.

People, including attorneys, were federally prosecuted for slipping patent office clerks a couple of bucks to expedite requests to make copies of files that were public record.

377

The offer was in jest - guess I should have put a smiley on it.

Glad the thread is making a turn.
I am trying to be informative about things that have not been looked at by the FBI and stay light about it. Hope I am coming across that way!

I try not to say things that will offend others - We all call attention to mistakes made by the FBI. Others talk about their theories and subjects and I will talk about what "we" are doing about mine...

Just more garbage in and garbage out - but if I die in my sleep anyone given night then I will have least tried to tell what I have tried to tell for yrs and exposing the mistakes made by the FBI, past and present. Every decade of FBI agents over the past 38 yrs has screwed up in one way or another regarding the Cooper investigation.

We are now bearing down on the last part of the 4th decade and as for FBI agents - assigned to the case - I lost count. Bet Sluggo knows how many.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Now we have a data point on the survivability of unopened military rigs dropped from high altitudes and left undiscovered.

There is definitely some Cooper gear out there awaiting discovery.

377

I think Cooper hid the chute and retrived it in a short period of time. Took it home (out of WA) disassembling it and disposing of parts in different areas. He kept souveniers and they are gone forever unless someone finds that collector who bought a piece of the harness off of me in 1995.

I now know the importance of the San Marino Santitarium in CA.
and the name on the picture...
George Edwards. Wonder if the FBI or anyone else even tried to figure that one out? It took me 14 yrs to do it - no one thought it important but me. Don't even ask - if simple little old me found it then surely the FBI would have been able to do so.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Poor guys. They should have jumped.

I've jumped many times from surplus C 45s, the military version of the Beech 18.

Now we have a data point on the survivability of unopened military rigs dropped from high altitudes and left undiscovered.

There is definitely some Cooper gear out there awaiting discovery.

377

agree. it's just figuring out where to look...
..hopefully it doesn't lie around as long as the anglo-saxon gold as per my post the other day!!

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Farflung 0]

Bruce Smith has shared two events associated with the extraordinary D B Cooper case which have the common thread of credibility via their mundane telling. This is not a criticism.

Bruce Smith passes an Email message free of apparent editing or manipulation regarding a conversation with Andy Anderson, the Flight Engineer and the events of Thanksgiving eve. True to the transcripts, Mr Anderson recalls a flight where little is known regarding the sole non-paying passenger on Flight 305A. Landing in Reno and requesting fuel is reflective of expecting to continue the journey rather than exit the aircraft since Cooper 'walked' several hours prior. Suspecting and knowing events are two entirely different animals. The crew suspected the bailout but behaved as if Cooper was still in the smoking section of the fuselage.

Then the family with the generosity to talk about and allow visiting of the site know as Tena Bar. Here again is a tale recalled with all the earmarks of another day in the life. We all know treasure MUST be buried, so the Cooper cash gets the deep six and therefore resides inches from a parachute laced skeleton. Alas there is no collateral evidence and geologists must be brought in to explain why Tena Bar does not resemble the locker of Davy Jones. Here the rancher recalls some litter of an unknown nature and origin existing along the high water mark of the beach. This story has less 'umph' than an eight year old 'digging' like a homesick devil through the Columbian shore on a February day with the efficiency of a gopher. How far could any of us dig in a snow covered shore in the coldest month of the year?

Now the pressure bump and dredging operations should carry less weight as both appear to have similar genuine significance. That is less than presumed before. Cooper could have stepped out any time from Ms Mucklow's last observation to the final approach fix at Reno. The money with a darkened exterior could have been sitting on top of the surface with the appearance of any other debris from the perspective of an 8 year old. After all, dear ol' Dad didn't direct his son to 'smooth the sand' by that packet of green paper. Right??

The truth may set those free who are bound by previous stories, TV reports or books from the bargain bin at K-mart. Drink deep the possibilities fueled by rational thought guided by physics or at least common sense. The answer is out there somewhere and not necessarily 'out there!'

There now, I feel better.

[377 22]

Quote

Jo wrote: I think Cooper hid the chute and retrived it in a short period of time. Took it home (out of WA) disassembling it and disposing of parts in different areas.

Jo. Why on Earth would Cooper do something that dumb?

Please explain your reasoning.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[BruceSmith 3]

Quote

As far as I can tell, there were no black bills when the money was found.

Originally, the Fazio tale talked about "black shards"

I notice "black" isn't in Bruce's report.

Do we all agree, from the limited photos we have, and the report of unknown provenance from georger, that the bills were not black when found?

Remember my long discourse on how many, and which bills were black, and when.

I've never heard money described as a shard.
What exactly does shards of money look like? Is it curled up? Rotted in a sandy ball? Dry and flakey?

Porcelain like?

(edit) Did Fazio personally recover any shard? How did he know they weren't shards of something else? Could he see green/white? But Ingram didn't recognize bills till he cleared the junk from them? How did Fazio recognize bill shards?

All good questions, Snow. I'll put them on the table next time I'm with the Fazios.

[BruceSmith 3]

Galen asked me to post this commentary from Skipp Porteus' blog at Sherlock Investigations.

-BAS

*****************

Hunting for D.B. Cooper

Even though I've exchanged e-mails and chatted with Skipp Porteous by phone during the course of a couple years, I have yet to meet him. I'm looking forward to it one day.

Skipp and I have a few things in common: we are both private investigators, and we both spend our free time hunting for DB Cooper. Of course, Skipp has his beautiful angels working with him, I work mostly alone.

Skipp and I do not share a suspect list. We bounce ideas off of each other and examine hypotheticals that could support some of the more credible theories about the DB Cooper case. Skipp was seen on National Geographic's tv special and I was heard on the Coast to Coast radio show. We both believe that the DB Cooper mystery is solveable and we each carry a portfolio of active investigation in the case.

Skipp and I also share the belief that the FBI has not been forthcoming with the public when it comes to DB Cooper. The FBI refers to this case as "NORJAK," the only unsolved case of air piracy/extortion in the United States. Could it be that the FBI is haunted by this case, or does it more resemble a pesky fly that won't leave the dinner table? Take your pick. When it comes to solving bank robberies, the FBI is pretty good. But when a particular robber escapes by company jet and then jumps out the back end into a November storm with a parachute and a bag full of money, the FBI flounders. Sure, the FBI did catch McCoy and others who copied DB, but they were now prepared to defend against known criminal tactics. A criminal with original design is hard to catch, though. For DB Cooper it has been 38 years on the uncaptured list, an eye-sore for the pursuer.

Recently, the FBI announced that it was assembling a "Citizens Sleuth Group" (CSG) to broaden the scope of opportunity to catch DB Cooper. In part, Skipp Porteous can take some credit for this, in part, maybe I can. In 2004, I sued the Department of Justice in a Seattle federal court to release some of the NORJAK file to the public. In 2008, Skipp outed a new DB Cooper suspect through an article in New York Magazine, based on his investigative work for a client. Shortly thereafter, the FBI started releasing more details about DB Cooper and upped their efforts to get the public involved. These arrangements are usually broached through compelling efforts of others................oh, those pesky flies.

Skipp and I have made numerous attempts during the past two years to coordinate with the FBI in certain matters regarding the Cooper case. For the most part, we have been ignored, despite our professional backgrounds and our knowledge about the case. What is puzzling is that the FBI has made public appearances with certain individuals from the CSG. It can be assumed that these individuals have access to the FBI NORJAK files and the evidence room where Cooper-related "material articles" are stored. Skipp and my repeated requests to the FBI for access to these items go ignored.

The question we both ask, then, is on what basis does the FBI discriminate or use discretionary authorization in the sharing of its material evidence to the public?
Skipp and I would like nothing better than to see the DB Cooper case solved. Sure, one of us, or both of us, would like to be in on the resolution to this mystery. But after nearly four decades of tantalizing the public with a brilliant and daring escape, does the real DB Cooper really care who solves his case?

Galen G. Cook
Attorney at Law

[snowmman 3]

Well the Citizen's Sleuth thing has always been bullshit.
Galen's pointing out the obvious: Tom Kaye was all prepared to use his special access to further his career, if he could, with the publication of a scientific paper, using his special access to data.

These guys want to do the same thing, but they don't have the special access.

What happened to the release of data that was pending scientific publication?

I mean, we see on TV a tease about "metal that shouldn't be there"...and then never hear about it again...and then our only info is from georger about some silver nitrate story.

Who knows if that is all lies or what?

I mean, I see stuff on TV, and then I read stuff on a web forum called DZ.com? This is the FBI?

oh p.s. that web forum has some nutbag that's offering sale of Stinger missiles, is moving large quantites of gold around the planet on C-123Ks, and probably involved in cow mutilations. Not to mention references to porn actresses ("Bunny Blue").

And you know the CSG is connected to Zazi somehow.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Quote

Jo wrote: I think Cooper hid the chute and retrived it in a short period of time. Took it home (out of WA) disassembling it and disposing of parts in different areas.

Jo. Why on Earth would Cooper do something that dumb?

Please explain your reasoning.

377

Some theory and what is known about Weber's prior activities and family in the area:

Not really dumb - if he left the chute in WA. there would always be the possibililty of it being found and his having left evidence on it - he couldn't take time to wipe all that hardware down. It was cold and damp. He wanted to get somewhere warm.

There is a strong possibility he had transportation hidden in the area...such as right on the highway not too far from an airport in Vancouver or at a bar in the area. No one would think anything about a car left at a bar if it was registered in WA. If Cooper used a relatives car - registered in WA and stored because the owner was overseas - who would be looking for it. NO ONE.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

Farflung said "How far could any of us dig in a snow covered shore in the coldest month of the year?"

There is nothing to suggest there was snow on the beach during the money find.

If you're referring to the pictures of Brian playing in the snow taken shortly after the money find, those are not at the money find location.

We have many photos of the money find, and video snaps, posted back in the thread. (taken in the days immediately following).

The video snaps are interesting because you get a bit of a feel for the looseness of the sand. (they're digging with shovels and rakes, before the backhoe is used)

(edit) This has the comparison with the new photo from georger
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3636341;search_string=tena%20bar;#3636341

nice one showing the bigness of the backhoe dig operation
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=109644;

I mused about wet vs dry sand here
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3273075;search_string=tena%20bar;#3273075

Oh remember the 3/09 video with Tom Kaye...there were new photos of Tena Bar (color) from the dig time. I thought they were FBI but not sure.
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=109741;
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=109740;

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=109742;

Good money photos that we didn't focus on before. (color)
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=109744;
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=109743;
I can't find some of the other posts right now.

[snowmman 3]

Farflung said: "The money with a darkened exterior could have been sitting on top of the surface with the appearance of any other debris from the perspective of an 8 year old. "

There is nothing to suggest the money was darkened when it was found. Photos seems to suggest not.

The current information seems to point to the use of silver nitrate for fingerprints, causing the darkening.

But I'm suspicious about that claim.

In any case, although photos from that day don't show both sides of all bills, the total info we have seems to suggest the bills darkened after they were found.

Now from what? we only have anecdotal info.
The CSG porn movie group would know more.

[snowmman 3]

You know, all these recent claims about the money being below the high tide water mark.

I'm thinking that might be false? Or at least, more complicated than that. (high tide water mark from how recent???)

Can't you see the high tide water mark in the picture on the left here
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=114192;

the money find was above that water mark (the dark sand, I'm thinking, is where the water level changes due to tide)

(edit) all of the fake C4 is sold. New stock in 3 months.

[snowmman 3]

Galen:

Thank you for your inquiry. I have recently taken the reins as head of the Citizen's Sleuth Group. I am looking forward to a good year as we continue our intimate relationship with the FBI.

In terms of you or others getting access to CSG-privileged information: you can kiss my ass.

p.s. Did you see the National Geographic documentary? We are interested in other promotional events this year, and CSG would be interested in joint ventures, as long as audience numbers can be guaranteed.

Sincerely yours,
Snowmman
President, CSG
Founder, Snowmman Industries

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Hunting for D.B. Cooper

Even though I've exchanged e-mails and chatted with Skipp Porteous by phone during the course of a couple years, I have yet to meet him. I'm looking forward to it one day.

Skipp and I have a few things in common: we are both private investigators, and we both spend our free time hunting for DB Cooper. Of course, Skipp has his beautiful angels working with him, I work mostly alone.

Skipp and I do not share a suspect list. We bounce ideas off of each other and examine hypotheticals that could support some of the more credible theories about the DB Cooper case. Skipp was seen on National Geographic's tv special and I was heard on the Coast to Coast radio show. We both believe that the DB Cooper mystery is solveable and we each carry a portfolio of active investigation in the case.

Skipp and I also share the belief that the FBI has not been forthcoming with the public when it comes to DB Cooper. The FBI refers to this case as "NORJAK," the only unsolved case of air piracy/extortion in the United States. Could it be that the FBI is haunted by this case, or does it more resemble a pesky fly that won't leave the dinner table? Take your pick. When it comes to solving bank robberies, the FBI is pretty good. But when a particular robber escapes by company jet and then jumps out the back end into a November storm with a parachute and a bag full of money, the FBI flounders. Sure, the FBI did catch McCoy and others who copied DB, but they were now prepared to defend against known criminal tactics. A criminal with original design is hard to catch, though. For DB Cooper it has been 38 years on the uncaptured list, an eye-sore for the pursuer.

Recently, the FBI announced that it was assembling a "Citizens Sleuth Group" (CSG) to broaden the scope of opportunity to catch DB Cooper. In part, Skipp Porteous can take some credit for this, in part, maybe I can. In 2004, I sued the Department of Justice in a Seattle federal court to release some of the NORJAK file to the public. In 2008, Skipp outed a new DB Cooper suspect through an article in New York Magazine, based on his investigative work for a client. Shortly thereafter, the FBI started releasing more details about DB Cooper and upped their efforts to get the public involved. These arrangements are usually broached through compelling efforts of others................oh, those pesky flies.

Skipp and I have made numerous attempts during the past two years to coordinate with the FBI in certain matters regarding the Cooper case. For the most part, we have been ignored, despite our professional backgrounds and our knowledge about the case. What is puzzling is that the FBI has made public appearances with certain individuals from the CSG. It can be assumed that these individuals have access to the FBI NORJAK files and the evidence room where Cooper-related "material articles" are stored. Skipp and my repeated requests to the FBI for access to these items go ignored.

The question we both ask, then, is on what basis does the FBI discriminate or use discretionary authorization in the sharing of its material evidence to the public?
Skipp and I would like nothing better than to see the DB Cooper case solved. Sure, one of us, or both of us, would like to be in on the resolution to this mystery. But after nearly four decades of tantalizing the public with a brilliant and daring escape, does the real DB Cooper really care who solves his case?

Galen G. Cook
Attorney at Law

I wish that email or letter had been dated. Galen is right about this - why are a privileged few allowed to view the files and the rest of us are not? Gathering from the details listed in that letter - it was written early this yr in 2009. We all know they saw something they were NOT supposed to see - but what?

If anything has been hidden - it is because certain individuals do NOT want it known now. Use this senario - What if something has been revealed to the FBI and the agent of record was able to link this to the crime. An FBI agent who takes credit for the "Dan Cooper Comics" on the FBI site would also stoop to other things.
I know others would not agree with me, but that is my opinion based on how I was raised.

At this stage of the game the only purposed served by hiding information is for personal gain or it really was a cover-up for FAA or CIA actions..and/or something no one has mentioned before, but, I will at this time since the opportunity has been presented.

Not sure how to word this - in fact I don't know where to begin it.
Note this is a theory - this is a senario - this might be why the FBI wanted to bury Cooper - this might be why the FBI had to make sure Weber was ruled out and why secrets are kept to this day.

1. The name of a suspect was presented in the early yrs. of the crime.
2. In 1971 this name was associated with high profile activity - socially, economically, politically, family ties, religiously etc.
3. The individual had an alibi.
4. The individual did not match the Cooper composite only the general description.
5. Yrs later this individual made a name for himself in his chosen profession.
6. This individual kept his secret - forever fearful the real Cooper would eventually knock on his door.
7. This individual is blackmailed in 1990 by the man who took his place.
8. This individual since 1996 has lived in fear of being unveiled. His life became a sham - it was built on a lie. He confessed that he did NOT go-over and apologized to his family, but that was not enough to calm his quilt.
9. He wrote a letter to the FBI or contacted someone within the system regarding what he did...he maybe terminally ill or have already died.
10. What was his fear - Cooper's widow and her words and her keyboard. Damned that woman!

Nahhh! No one keeps a secret to himself that long! - but Cooper did and he did so because he didn't want to spend the rest of his life in prison. The guy he went over for had to keep the same secret or face financial ruin and destruction of his family.

What Really Happened - there are so many theories and senarios there will be umpteen dozen books written about Cooper and none of them will get it right...other than Cooper Died sometime on or after November 24, 1971.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Orange1 0]

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I've taken the pledge not to bash you. This isn't a bash. I hope you are enjoying the new atmosphere in the forum as much as I am.

377

for me it was never about 'bashing' Jo, although the frustration with trying to make her see the illogical arguments and inconsistencies in her thinking may have come out that way. my pledge is simply not to respond to her at all - which i find easier if i don't read her posts, because then i don't feel an urge to try make her see sense.
i repeat: it was never intended to be 'bashing'. i work in a field where good people/companies will root out inconsistencies in the arguments (analysis, research, investment cases) they are presented with. good analysts will take it in the way it is intended and seek to improve their work. bad analysts just get defensive, and will never get rated or make money for their clients. we take our responsibility of investing for people's retirement very seriously and have no room for people who are not topclass in their ability. i tend to transplant this way of thinking to a lot of other things, i guess it is just the way i am. sorry if that comes across as too harsh sometimes.

btw one of my PET HATES is people who try twist facts to fit their theory. I am strongly of the opinion that if your a priori expectations are not borne out by the data/evidence, you need to find a new theory/approach.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[georger 244]

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Bruce Smith has shared two events associated with the extraordinary D B Cooper case which have the common thread of credibility via their mundane telling. This is not a criticism.

Bruce Smith passes an Email message free of apparent editing or manipulation regarding a conversation with Andy Anderson, the Flight Engineer and the events of Thanksgiving eve. True to the transcripts, Mr Anderson recalls a flight where little is known regarding the sole non-paying passenger on Flight 305A. Landing in Reno and requesting fuel is reflective of expecting to continue the journey rather than exit the aircraft since Cooper 'walked' several hours prior. Suspecting and knowing events are two entirely different animals. The crew suspected the bailout but behaved as if Cooper was still in the smoking section of the fuselage.

Then the family with the generosity to talk about and allow visiting of the site know as Tena Bar. Here again is a tale recalled with all the earmarks of another day in the life. We all know treasure MUST be buried, so the Cooper cash gets the deep six and therefore resides inches from a parachute laced skeleton. Alas there is no collateral evidence and geologists must be brought in to explain why Tena Bar does not resemble the locker of Davy Jones. Here the rancher recalls some litter of an unknown nature and origin existing along the high water mark of the beach. This story has less 'umph' than an eight year old 'digging' like a homesick devil through the Columbian shore on a February day with the efficiency of a gopher. How far could any of us dig in a snow covered shore in the coldest month of the year?

Now the pressure bump and dredging operations should carry less weight as both appear to have similar genuine significance. That is less than presumed before. Cooper could have stepped out any time from Ms Mucklow's last observation to the final approach fix at Reno. The money with a darkened exterior could have been sitting on top of the surface with the appearance of any other debris from the perspective of an 8 year old. After all, dear ol' Dad didn't direct his son to 'smooth the sand' by that packet of green paper. Right??

The truth may set those free who are bound by previous stories, TV reports or books from the bargain bin at K-mart. Drink deep the possibilities fueled by rational thought guided by physics or at least common sense. The answer is out there somewhere and not necessarily 'out there!'

There now, I feel better.

A good allegorical shit sometimes helps.

Getting ready to write your memoirs?