DB Cooper

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

The question of manuals is interesting.

From the transcripts, you can see that at least some number of humans also had defacto operational knowledge of inflight aft stair opening behavior.

We don't know how widespread this knowledge was, or where flt ops got it from when they communicated it to the pilots.

We don't know why they quickly were able to determine that the plane would fly well in that configuration because 2 to 3 hundred lb. boxes had been shoved out with that option before..i.e. who they talked to.

Snowmman, remember this post? This year you found the clip about the Boeing and 377 was surprised. I had been saying since "GET GO" that it was known that the 377 was used in this manner in the past.

I have also said for yrs that Duane was familiar with the Boeings (because of his very broad knowledge of planes and how he could identify the planes at the airports - telling me what each of them where and what they were capable of).

I have been asked repeatedly to prove how Duane would have this knowledge. What I have is vague.

1. The brother working for Boeing

2. The Uncle having an impressive association with Sherwin Williams, who provided and developed the paints used on the 727's. (He died in the late 50's).

3. The Boeing having been used by the JMWave and Duane's association with this group thru his employment during the time he was known as John C. Collins - 1962 - 1968.

4. The fact the brother told me the schematic were available to Duane. Makes me wonder how long the 727 or its precursors where in developement.

5. Duane's explanation to me about how the aftstairs worked when we boarded and disembarked from a Boeing 727 on our trip to St. Thomas.

6. Duane's knowledge of lots of planes - their design purpose and when they were produced. What they were capabable of.



What I would like to do is chase down a list of people invited to that presentation. The Uncle died in the 50's, but he had a son by the name of Richard who would have been around 36 at that time. He may have followed in his father's footsteps....if he were alive today he would be in his early 80's. This is a long shot and I really don't know what I am looking for.

I had seen that photo or a similar one before, but I don't remember from where or when.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Agent Carr made the statement below and will someone tell me if this is fact or myth.

Quote

Cooper did want the airstairs down at take-off, when he learned they could not be down for take off he said, "thats ok, the cockpit can do it after we take off." This was wrong on his part, the air stairs can only be lowered from the rear of the aircraft.

Outside of Carr stating this I had no knowledge Cooper made such a statement. Is this statement in the actual records or is this a myth created by the FBI agent himself?

Attention Sluggo:

You will know if what Carr stated was fact or myth or his own opinion.

We have not heard from you lately and I think everyone would like to know how you are doing. We are aware you were having some health issues.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

What I said in 2008 about the 727 and its use:

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Dear 377:

During the Viet Nam war the 727's were used to dump supplies - I do not remember off hand my source on this.

Duane had access to Boeing Schematics - not aware if the 727 was in this - the access was available to him in the 40's and the 727 was not even on the drawing board. He may have had access between 1958 and 1960 - but I am uncertain of this. I do not know if the brother was working in the same capacity nor what his affiliation with Boeing was.

Somehow Duane knew an awful lot about planes - he could describe the plane and tell me about the different attributes and faults of that particular plane. Maybe he aspired to be a pilot and his two attempts with the military ended that. I will also Note something in his letter from Camp Siebert - he states that the chemical end (referring to the war) of it is all right. Note that the tone of the letter indicates regret and mentions his brother in the same sentence.

I think someone claimed my story changes - not much it doesn't. I am human and I might have felt one way about something 5 yrs ago but, what I am thinking and feelings evolves with new information. I jump on new information without all the facts. Remember that I am emotionally involved in this - and I do act prematurely sometimes. In 14 yrs what I have said has basically stayed the same except for exploring theories and working with things thrown at me. Almost everything I have said can be backed up by tapes, recordings, letters and emails, phone bills and (with daily journals in the first 4 yrs before I got a computer).

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

I still believe most of what I wrote in a post from early 2008.
A lot of it was and still is theory, but what I think is pretty close to the truth.

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I have been busy researching the 727 crashes and I did find something interesting regarding the Salt Lake City 727 crash in 1965...and there were 3 crashes within a 4 month period during 1965 of 727's.

3 more 727 crashes in 1969 and top that off with 1 crash in 1971.

Did the FBI investigate this possibility - that the hijacking might have been related to the fatality rates with the 727's?

Senario: Cooper or a friend knew someone in one of the 1965 crashes. They are in a prison - these prisoners sit around and talk about doing the BIG one...to pass time. Some of these inmates have been in the War and some are experienced drug runners (like a pilot). Moving drugs - such as Casa Grande...stealing planes. They cook up this idea, but no one is ever going to do it - right!.

A few yrs pass and one of the inmates has been out of prison and trying to make it - but all he gets is low paying jobs - cleaning garbage cans, washing dishes, busing tables. He is getting by working 3 jobs at one time.

Then in late 1970 or early 1971 - he finds out he has an illness - he has been in the hospital - now he is knee deep indebt. He goes back to a life of crime.

(edited) His wife gets fed up and leaves him - but there is a lot more to this part of the story.

Thanksgiving is coming up - what he is living off of he is stealing and that is going to put him back in prison if he gets caught.

He is a man with NO family.
They gave up on him yrs before - he had not seen his brother or spoke to him since right after his father died in the 1950's. He calls his sister ever few yrs, but she doesn't know where he is calling from - he has been on the run most of his life.

We know from the exwife that he had reasons to go to WA and OR and has contacts there. His brother was with Boeing and at one time owned property in the Seattle area. He is very familiar with the 727's.

All of that Boeing information he had carried around inside his head for yrs. was refreshed in the prison - when the cell mates planned the BIG one.

Between a couple of his stays in multiple prisons he had the "opportunity" around 1962 to be in association with known Mafia out of Chicago and LA.
Through this association he learns how to sharpe shoot and jump - those yrs he remembers with remorse, but he has in 1971 a basic skill he is going to use.

Washington state - he knows it like the back of his hand from 1945 to 1950. No one will remember him. If he pulls it off OK, but if he bites the dust SO BE IT. Once he handed that note to the stewardess there was no going back. Duane was never one to back down...yet he never hurt anyone in his life except maybe to defend himself. Always the goof ball growing up - always getting into something...but always taking the blame and full responsiblity if he got anyone else in trouble.

He chose #18 because that was the day he was born on and the 24th because that is the yr he was born and Thanksgiving, because it was convenient and Wa. because he knew a man there - who was a caretaker (FBI you never checked that one out) - perhaps they had been in prison together.

If he didn't pull this off he was going to end-up back in prison anyway, but if he made it then he had enough to live off of for sometime - the rest of his life...or so he thought.

Ripley's Belive It or Not - he survived - and knew if he ever got in trouble with the authorities that he would go back to prison for the rest of his life. He had to go straight - he faltered during the first few yrs - but for the next 24 yrs he managed for the most part to stay out of trouble.

Duane had in his possession a picture of a little girl with braided sandy - light hair - a white blouse and a plaid skirt. The photo seemed to have water damage.....I have repeatedly asked if Tina gave Cooper something or if he took something from her.

Also I have asked if Florence Shaffner was doing the Denver to Atlanta routes for Frontier in 1978 and 1979. The first time I had to fly with Duane was back to Atlanta and he got real nervous about one of the Stews. He said he didn't want her to recognize him - I assumed it was an old girl friend. edit: he told me it was an old girl friend and that is why I looked at her - she didn't seem his type.

After seeing photos of Florence Shaffner from around that time - I think it was her. He seemed relieved that this stewardess was in 1st Class and he changed seats with me (buried himself in a magazine with his head down) - he always asked for rows 17 or 18 when we flew.

Added October 2009 - after we started discussing the picture of the girl..I found the picture of Tina without all the make-up and convinced myself that MAYBE that theory was right.

I want to add something else - Richard would have been the closest thing Duane had to a little brother - this is why I want to find out what happened to Richard. Duane NEVER even told me about these cousins - I find that strange and worth exploring.
I also find it strange the brother nor the sister told me about any other family members...just to leave the past in the past...to let it be.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

Quote

Between a couple of his stays in multiple prisons he had the "opportunity" around 1962 to be in association with known Mafia out of Chicago and LA.
Through this association he learns how to sharpe shoot and jump - those yrs he remembers with remorse, but he has in 1971 a basic skill he is going to use.

How does a Mafia connection lead to learning how to jump? I've been skydiving for over four decades and have never heard even a rumor of Mafia involvement in any aspect of parachuting. Some skydivers were drug smugglers but they weren't Mafiosos. Please explain Jo. You made a claim now substantiate it.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Orange1 0]

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Please explain Jo. You made a claim now substantiate it.

377

Hope springs eternal

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Quote

Between a couple of his stays in multiple prisons he had the "opportunity" around 1962 to be in association with known Mafia out of Chicago and LA.
Through this association he learns how to sharpe shoot and jump - those yrs he remembers with remorse, but he has in 1971 a basic skill he is going to use.

How does a Mafia connection lead to learning how to jump? I've been skydiving for over four decades and have never heard even a rumor of Mafia involvement in any aspect of parachuting. Some skydivers were drug smugglers but they weren't Mafiosos. Please explain Jo. You made a claim now substantiate it.

377

Mafia type was a word used by the common-law wife who was with him at the time. She said that during their stay in Chicago, she was afraid of the men he was associating with and the places he went to. This was during the time he was moving around under John Collins and probably some other aliases.

As for La - I was referring to N.Orleans. I get my state abbreviations mixed up. After he got out of Jefferson they went back to New Orleans and at that time he worked at the Bourbon Orleans under Duane Weber - yet his prior times there were under John Collins, because that is where the fled to from Denver when the FBI came looking for him (I will have to go to the note to verify the yr that occurred). This would have been prior to his being apprehended and incarcerated at Jefferson.

Duane was known in N. Orleans before and after Jefferson under two different names.

I personally met a couple of individuals in the N.Orleans area that I now know were what I call Mafia (if their name has ever been associated with covert CIA - I call that Mafia). I did NOT know who these individuals where at that time.

At some time in my story I have told about the Red Rooster in an area below Colorado Springs up into the mountains of Co. I will have to go back to find these names - but, my experience there on that day was more than unpleasant...it scared the HELL out of me and he never told me what it was all about.

We went to this old hotel and bar located in an old mountain resort area. Duane had made arrangements to meet with these men...but I thought we were just on an outing. It was during a day before the place was open to the public. This man whose appearance I will never forget greeted us along with a man I would describe as a bodyguard. I was instructed to sit at the bar and the bartender who was setting up was told to serve me anything I wanted.

Duane and these two men went to a private area of the place far from where I could hear any conversation. Shortly after I heard raised voices and Duane is walking toward me - he told me to get infront of him and stay infront of him. He had his top coat over his arm and instructed me to go straight toward the car and not look back staying infront of him. As we were leaving the heavy set man (who was the man Duane had come to see) shouted at him - I don't remember what he said. It was basically a warning not to ever see him again.

I asked Duane what that was all about - he told me the guy wanted to spend some private time with me and Duane told him I was his wife and not that kind of woman That is not what this private conversation was about and we all know that - it was just the first thing Duane could think to say. When we left there we headed out pretty rapidly - Duane NEVER offered me an explanation.

In my investigation of Duane's background - I have tried to find a picture of the man who owned that place around 1979 - there was some history on him being connected to gambling casinos, but I never found a picture of him. This was after our trip to Washington state.
I believe Duane was attempting blackmail him or trying to sell him something.

The man was about 5'6 and heavy set and he had on lots of diamonds (one ring was extremely impressive because it was an unusual design. the man who acted like a "bodyguard" was maybe 6'3" (taller than Duane) with sandy hair and much younger than the heavy set man.

These are the things that maybe I haven't told you guys, but I have told in the past if not in this forum to private individuals and definitely to the FBI. As I have said before I knew Duane had a past and I will tell you this - I didn't want to know what that past was after that. I pushed it out of my mind until I realized who Dan Cooper was. Duane and I NEVER talked about that incident - I just knew when NOT to ask question.

Prior to our reaching this place in the mountains Duane told me about all of the elaborate rooms and the movie stars and government official who had been guest there (he did not tell me from when and if he did I don't remember). In the general conversation before they went private - the man mentioned that he had redone the rooms from what Duane remembered.
Therefore I gather Duane and this man shared a past...but I don't know from when.

If men were connected to Covert action or gambling or crime - I would think Mafia (I actually at that time knew NOTHING about covert CIA actions). If they were sinister or threatening and dressed like that I would think Mafia or organized crime and gambling (I associated gambling with organzied crime).

I hope this explains what I have said - and perhaps explains my reluctance to talk about it. It was scary and it still bothers me to this day. Duanes criminal background goes far beyond the crimes he was arrested for and served time for.......and the people I met where not your common run of the mill type criminals.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

Jo,

You have told a believable account of Duane meeting with some shady characters. They may very well have had organized crime connections. You have explained that you used the term Mafia loosely. OK.
Nothing in your post connects any of this with parachuting. How about substantiating your claim?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Jo,

You have told a believable account of Duane meeting with some shady characters. They may very well have had organized crime connections. You have explained that you used the term Mafia loosely. OK.
Nothing in your post connects any of this with parachuting. How about substantiating your claim?

377

How can I substantiate something that was covert - no one will be able to do that 1962- 1970 - we all know that we will never ever know the truths that are sealed by our own government.

The only other answer lies in Duane's prior connections - in the mid to late forties (what I believe may have been the first jumping connections - but only thru basic knowledge and association with).

Face it Cooper was not a KNOWN sky jumper or he would have been identified. What Cooper knew was basic and thru association - and the fact this experience may well have been under another name other than his real name...this was NOT uncommon in those yrs.

He may also have went - over in the military between 1945 - 1946 under another name - There is a VERY strong reason to think this at this time...we are still searching for records regarding this - but, without a full name and birthdate of the person - it is hit and miss. This is where the FBI could be of a strong assistance and why I keep asking for the names of individuals they received calls on and the reasons they where investigating in CA and why they were looking for certain military men.

The FBI will not release nor even discuss this with me - they are responsible for what I now consider concealment of Cooper's identity. There are individuals who could research this for them with access to the files and paid by private industry. This research would be done under discretion - meaning that the individuals whose name where provided to the FBI in the early yrs would not be made public. Only those individuals who might be connected to Weber or other suspects would be of interest. This would be determined by location, age, employment, background, family members, common interest and other criterior.

If the FBI REALLY wants to solve this case - they need to take Cooper one step further and if they are not financially capable of doing so, the research group can do this for them as most of this will be thru paper work and recorded documents. When one of the individuals is a HIT with Weber or another suspectthe research group will by contract give the FBI an agreed upon time frame to do their job or let the research group do it.

It would be better if this was done before I expire, because I might be the only one alive who might know the connection when it is found. The FBI has screwed around long enough - allowing all possible witnesses or those having any knowledge or suspicions of the involvement of a love one or family member or friend to pass-away.

It is time for the FBI to step aside and allow private research groups to do what the FBI is encapable of doing or cannot financially do. There are several groups and private individuals through out the US who will welcome this opportunity - to end this saga that has for too long been called The Only Unsolved Hijacking in US History.

These groups and individuals would need access to uncensored Cooper files - with the names of every suspect reported to them during the first 15 yrs after the crime. Cooper's real identity has been sitting in that file all of these yrs waiting for the FBI to make the connections. By the time the connection was made available to them - there was no one interested or capable or available to complete the investigation of these individuals.

My calls and messages to the FBI have gone unanswered in regards to those early records.
One agent said - the case is CLOSED. If all of those individuals reported as suspects to the FBI in the early part of the investigation are NOT Cooper and had NO involvement then there should be NO reason for these names to remain confidential.

This "Confidentiality thing" has hindered the Cooper investigation for 38 yrs.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

Quote

Cooper's real identity has been sitting in that [FBI] file all of these yrs waiting for the FBI to make the connections.

Jo,

That's just a wild guess of yours. You have no way of knowing that.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 244]

Quote

Quote

Cooper's real identity has been sitting in that [FBI] file all of these yrs waiting for the FBI to make the connections.

Jo,

That's just a wild guess of yours. You have no way of knowing that.

377

Jo Weber is a Troll and everything she says is a guess or conjecture or concoction and meant
for maximum sensational effect, which keeps her
active in the case (in her mind) - with no
consideration of the cost.

Jo Weber is simply out of touch with reality.

The extent to which she is fed and kept going
here in her self immolation is astonishing and perverted.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

All,


There have been several inquiries lately about my condition (health), so I would like to make a generalized response:

First, thank you (all) for asking, I think 100% of the inquiries were sincere and 0% were of the “the witch is dead” variety. If that isn’t true, just let me keep believing it… okay?
The job a LANL was very stressful for me, and stress + diabetes = cardiac disease. I have known this for a long time, but it is just my lot in life (it’s what I do for a living).

When I got home, I went straight to a cardiologist and underwent angioplasty. I now have two shiny new stents to go with the one I already had. So, now my heart is happy and everything is good (maybe with a slight “lifestyle modification”). However, the catherization procedure did not go as expected. The large amount a manipulation caused a “pseudo-aneurism” in the femoral artery. That has now been repaired, so, except for some nerve damage in my right leg, I’m as good as new. I am still suffering some discomfort (which makes me grumpy), but that should be gone in about three weeks.

I haven’t been posting lately because of the health issues, but that isn’t the only reason. The nature of this thread has changed considerably from where it was originally. I assume it is serving those who post and those who lurk as well. It just isn’t serving me well (at this time). I read it when I can, I’m still interested, but I just have nothing to add to the current discussions. Maybe later… just not now.

In my free time (from not spending so much time with the thread), I have been able to do some serious “library investigations,” (NOTE: I didn’t say research.) and have refined my best guess at a Cooper profile. It’s nothing worth publishing, just some new conclusions.

BTW:
Galen Cook posted a comment to “Sluggo’s Blog” (see link in my signature line) yesterday. It sounds like he’s getting closer with the book. His post is in the “The New Suspect and Another Book” blog. Check it out.


Thanks again to all,

Sluggo

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Jo Weber is a Troll and everything she says is a guess or conjecture or concoction and meant for maximum sensational effect, which keeps her
active in the case (in her mind) - with no consideration of the cost.

Jo Weber is simply out of touch with reality.

The extent to which she is fed and kept going here in her self immolation is astonishing and perverted.

Under no circumstances am I a Troll. There is some conjecture but NO concoctions. Not one thing I say is meant for sensationalism - I try to be as honest as I can in my post and replies to questions.

If the FBI is not investigating that does not keep them active in the investigation. What COSTS are you referring to - if the FBI is not looking at Weber and has CONCLUSIVE proof he is not Weber than ALL they have to do is provide me with records of that PROOF. I was given a letter in 1998 - which you know I proved in 2000 wasn't worth the paper it was written on. I publically disputed the statements made by the FBI as late as 2000. Remember their claim in March of 2000 regarding - Duane was never in the Army and he was NEVER at McNeil? Yet, I held in my hands government documentations which proved Weber was indeed in the Army and at McNeil. The agent of record had NOT investigated Duane Weber as late as the early part of 2000.

If you consider my posts as fiction or contoctions then DON'T READ THEM. I am NOT out of touch with reality - I am more down to earth than most have the imagination to fathom.

Individuals can over ANALYZE a subject and we have all seen this with CONJECTURES and CONTOCTIONS regarding other suspects this thread has previewed. Some of these subjects the thread pulled out of the pages of military history. Are all of these other posters also self immobalated and out of touch with reality?

Why do you have a problem with my subject? It has long been believe by me, you have some personal or prior connection with the investigation of Dan Cooper.

1. Is your interest Personal?
2. Is your interest self-motivated for financial gain or satisfaction?
3. Is your interest due to prior or current employment?
4. Do you know who Dan Cooper was?
5. Exactly what is YOUR interest in Dan Cooper and what is your motivation to silence me?

The answers to these questions are of interest to others outside of the active participants of this thread (those who come here to read, not post). They understand Jerry and Orange, but you remain an enigmatic anomaly.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

377 stated:

"I am convinced Cooper was no skydiver. Ckret's conclusions from Cooper's gear choices is correct in my opinion. Also, if he was a jumper he likely would have been figured out by others and word would have spread. That never happened."


I believe that statement made by 377 will stand the test of time.
Also if Cooper was a jumper - he obtained experience under another name. Say Cooper had the basics thru military training (it has been stated by some military old timers they where taught to put on a chute and had to make a jump from a tower). They were taught this procedure as a safety precaution. This may only have been at a bases with the facilities for this...and not included in ALL basic training.

Leads were called in on Cooper by mililtary who claimed to know this guy or thought he was in their division. The name provided may have been Dutch, Dusty, Max, Tommy, Dick, Richard, Douglas, Barlow, Michael, Brook, Jackson, El Rey, Payne, Parker, Knutsen, Marvin, Melvin, John, Claude, Allison, Lyman - more than likely he was asked to be called Dusty because that was easier to answer to than the assumed name.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Need assistance from someone who lives in the Greeley or Loveland, Colorado area.

During our yrs (1978 and 1979 and 1980) in Colorado, Duane had a FRIEND he found who was working one of the bars. It was a narrow hole in the wall on the main street of the town.
Just inside the door on the right was room for the Steel Guitar player and his wife (I forget what instrument she played). His name was Rick and her name was Elaine. Rick knew Duane from the past, but it was never discussed.

They left the area to travel in their the USA in their travel trailer or recreational vehicle. They were Duane's age, but hopefully one of both are still alive. I do not have a last name and hope someone living within the area of Greeley or Loveland can help me find some old pictures and maybe the last name of this couple.

I have tried to prove to myself Duane was not Cooper, but everything I find says YES.
Perhaps finding people who knew him for way back when (before 1971) will help.

Those I found:

Ex-wife - Claimed they were separated. but then changes her story depending on how much she had to drink.

Step-daughter - Said she knew Duane was Cooper.

His employer - Said when he came back to work he had an injury he got cutting limbs from in front of his trailer. Ex-wife said there were NO trees and she also mentions his injuries.

Step-daughter #2 - did not live with Duane and her mother.

Step-son - too young to remember much other than fragments and stories the family told over the yrs.

Other employers - just work applications and one I was instructed not to find.

Old Buddy - only met Duane in Ga. thru his employement.

The man who threatened me who knew Duane as John...and why I was led to believe Duane was involved in somethings related to the government. Plus his involvement over the yrs with companies also involved in the same. Plus things Duane said over the yrs.

Never have found;

Ed Huran
Rick or Elaine
Richard Weber
Daugher Zona
Mother of Zona (Edna)
Any prison buddies

Duane Weber had few friends and I think I just mentioned them all except Tony and he died around the time Duane did.

If that was not a loner I don't know what was.

PS: I forgot the guy from the lower part of CO called Harry or Harrison - this is the couple we spent a Holiday with in Denver at a hotel. The guy was from Duane's past and had worked (so he claimed) as a driver or guard for Howard Hughes and he had lost his right leg to cancer.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[1969912 0]

Good to hear from you, Sluggo. Hope your health stays good after the repairs.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[skyjack71 0]

Remember Ckret Agent Carr and his ambiguous requests:

Quote

I don't mean to call anyone out, but give me just one document that directly supports just one claim made. So much has been brought forward, surely there exists just one small piece of paper that can support any part of a claim. i am not asking for proof that someone is or is not cooper, just one piece of paper that can support just one small aspect of a persons story.

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So, for those of you putting forward a person of interest and you are asserting it as a matter of fact, then "show me the facts"

Quote

With regard to this clerk, again I say, show me the facts (really I mean evidence). I want where Tim Collins or John Collins signed in so I can compare the signature with another persons. And with regard to witnesses, hearing the same story told from another person just means they told the same story, which still makes the original a story. Don't get me wrong, there is value in having two stories but without evidence their still stories.

Quote

In regard to handwriting, I was thinking more along the line of comparing John Collins' handwriting sample to that of Weber to see if they are the same. We don't have a sample of Coopers handwriting

Read those quote from Carr and think about what we have for FBI in this country. He is ASKING those of us who have suspects to present PROOF. His conversation is full of DOUBLE TALK. The FBI has handwriting samples of Weber and John Collins - after all they have his prison records - RIGHT.
They have other samples of his handwriting provided by me to the FBI - I presume the agent made copies of what he needed.

I provided the FBI with the things they requested - but, what was Ckrets reply - they couldn't find the hotel registration. Excuse me - first he wants samples to compare with the registration and later on he tells us he can't find the registration (in fact he say he found NO registrations).

Regarding the Night Clerk:
We provided a tape we made of the witness 7 yrs after the FBI was aware of him and how to contact him. The FBI made NO effort to contact this night clerk in 2001 when they were made aware of him, before his testimony became tainted by the media and contact with me.

This is double talk, but what else do we expect for the government anymore. They have give away programs and give the bigwigs money. It is time to go back to the practices of the 30's when Roosevelt created JOBS with the CCC - a program that saved our land and provided us with men who were service ready in a time of war. The pay was $30 a month and $25. of that was sent to their families and they got $5. Back then our unemployment was around 25 % and we are going to see this again - but no our current goverment wants to give medical care, unemployment benefit, discounts for those who can afford to buy - not one thing they are doing is CREATING NEW JOBS in America or promoting American MADE.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

The cigarette butts were never in the Seattle office, they were recovered by the Las Vegas office and sent to Quantico for analysis. After processing they were returned to Las Vegas for storage. So the butts told their story back at the lab, they gave all they could give and could give no more. It's not like they were lost and never processed.

They may still be in Las Vegas for all I know, I can't find the paper work that state the items were disposed of, nor can I find the butts. Alas, another mystery to the mysteries.

Agent CARR and the FBI - let us see the evidence! Let us see the reports and the butts.



What I said to Carr in rebuttal:

"I told you that he signed in as John Collins and that I would provide enough writing samples of Duane Weber covering a period of yrs to match the signature on the card with....to put Duane in Portland on the 24th of Nov. 1971. NO RESPONSE UNTIL I GO ON A PUBLIC FORUM WITH THIS INFORMATION."

What was his response - he couldn't find the registrations - no registrations - STRANGE.


It is a NO WIN situation with the FBI - the agents are too young to think back over the ys. Most of them were not born until 1970 - I do not expect them to be able to think or correlate information that is so entwined in our history during the worse yrs of American politics.


Then our elite FBI makes this statement:

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So, we all have the story down on all of them (referring to all suspect I presume), now it is time to bring forward the evidence, anything, just bring it forward.

He goes on in another post to asking me to produce the things they obtained in 1997 from me and that were made available at that time.

Asking me for a receipt at a hotel - He evaded the whole issue, because he couldn't find the hotel registrations and expects me to produce a receipt and proof Duane was at the Rodeway that night in 1971. The FBI was provided the video we made 7 yrs after the FBI had knowledge of the man and the contact information.

HOW am I supposed TO ACCESS the FBI files to find the statement the night clerk gave to the FBI in Nov of 1971? The FBI knows very well that the hotel changed hands 3 times and is no longer there. SO ALL there is regarding this - happens to be what is in the FBI FILES. I get a notarized copy of his statement and you will just say it was what Aunt Gertie said.

We did on better than that he was sent a video of the interview but made 7 yrs after the FBI was told about this night clerk.


So far I and others have done the FBI's job for them. The night clerk - the 727 information - the mililtary connection...and names given in the early days of the Cooper investigation. Without access to the FBI files I as a layman nor the researchers can go forward.
The FBI would rather the evidence rot or perhaps they have already destroyed it.

Remember that Jerry Thomas CLAIMED they were getting rid of some files and that Himmelsbach had them. NOW WE ALL KNOW that is NOT TRUE, but that is what Jerry claimed.

Later the thread would investigate the things the ex told me about the San Diego Aircraft in CA and Southern Airlines. The FBI didn't investigate that - you guys did. The FBI could have done that with a simple SS search. Just a few clicks of the keys on Duane Weber, John Collins and his ex's name.

We could seach till dooms day and not be able to get what the FBI can with the SS files, but a couple of you guys gave it all you could and so did I.

There was a Brinks connection with a man by the name of J. Lanaman - again not something a layman can do without FBI access.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

You guys helped me find more on the Commutation of Sentence - without the help of the FBI. This went on for several wks. Where and What was the FBI doing? You guys and I are the ones who made searches with what we had to work with.

Ckret (agent Carr) doesn't comment regarding the Commutation or any of the yrs surrounding that time frame when Weber was using the name John Collins or why Duane was incarcerated under an AKA. He totally ignores this information and the information I provided about the yrs from 1962 to 1966. Go back and read this for yourself and ask but ONE question. WHY?

What he does in turn is to divert the thread to the bag - WHY?

Ok, I am going to shut-up, but I think I have made my point in a review. The FBI doesn't want this case solve and they are NOT going to provide any information.

They have NO idea what they are sitting on, but then maybe they do know exactly what they
are sitting on - and this has been a cover-up since 1971.

The FBI does NOT want this case solve - it is a matter of National Security. Duh! What difference does it make? America is already in the potty.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Regarding the 1979 trip to WASHINGTON - with Duane Weber and then his subsequent claim he was Dan Cooper in 1995.

Remember that farm that I felt had a cement block building in front of it...I felt it was a milking station, as that was often done so that the milk was easy to access by the trucks picking it up?

I asked lots of people to look up the county records from 1941 to 1971 - but I had NO takers. I contacted real estate agents hoping someone would take on the challenge. I would not have been that difficult as it was a farm in 1979 and some forest land. I told Jerry Thomas about this farm in 1996 so I have no idea how he had me on the other side of the Columbia - DUH!

I contacted real estate agents asking for someone to do the search for a nominal fee - no takers.

Now someone who lives 100's of miles from WA is taking it on. This was the farm that Duane told me "They had a son about my age". Since I have been able to narrow down the yrs Duane would have been exposed to WA - that limits the time from 1942 - 1950 and then from 1962 to 1967. The later is really not feasible, but since we only have hear-say as to his whereabouts in those yrs. they have to be looked at.

My gut is telling me and I hope we have already seen a picture of this "son".

I also had asked Jerry Thomas yrs ago to obtain a list of all of the individuals interned at the cementary in Washougal from 1941 to 1972. He never did it.
No one would do this. I tried to get the information by phone, but no one knew who needed to be contacted. Surely there is a roll call for that cementary for those yrs.

Maybe I won't recognize the name, but what if it was a name he mentioned or that I could connect to his history?

If anyone know some way of getting that cemetery "roll call" I would appreciate it. It was called the Washougal Memorial Cemetery. Duane mentioned he knew someone who was buried there.

The names of the owners of the land in 1940 and the Cemetery records - might have something that will bring together Duane's past and his connections to WA.

Duane pointed out several cemeteries during that trip - maybe he was a GRAVE digger.
During the 40's - who dug the graves and why would Duane know where so many cemeteries were located? There was at least 6 cemeteries he pointed out.

The one in Washougal and then on up the road off of a side road after we turned away from Wahougal. The along the upper route toward Ochards he mentions 2 more - he also points our every airstrip and tower during this trip. When we got on I-5 he mentions another cemenary near the Grist Mill in the same breath as knowing a woman who lived in St. Helens who owned a store there.

When someone makes sense of all of these things Duane told me about the area - and can provide some kind of explanations that make sense - besides Duane being Cooper. YOU will get my attention. But, then maybe I have yours - because I told ALL of this to the FBI in 1996 and 1997, but they were NOT listening.


Respectfully, Jo Weber

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

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The FBI does NOT want this case solve - it is a matter of National Security. Duh

Jo,

That is completely illogical. This is 2009. Nothing about Cooper affects national security today. The FBI would LOVE to solve NORJACK. Ckret would jump at the chance.

You claim you were married to Cooper yet you have failed to produce one bit of irrefutable evidence to support that claim. Blaming the FBI is absurd.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

Jo wrote:

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It is time to go back to the practices of the 30's when Roosevelt created JOBS with the CCC - a program that saved our land and provided us with men who were service ready in a time of war. The pay was $30 a month and $25. of that was sent to their families and they got $5.

Jo,

The CCC was a remarkable program that gave dignified employment to thousands of impoverished Americans and provided us with roads, dams, trails and other infrastructure that is still in use 80 years later.

I learned this from my father long before it was taught to me in school. My Dad practically worshipped FDR and for good reason. My father was homeless, jobless and hungry when he was offered work in the CCC. He jumped at the chance to become a corp member and spent the rest of the Great Depression doing hard work, but getting clothed, fed and even a little pay. He credited the CCC for giving him a strong work ethic that endured for the rest of his life.

I am not one of those right wingers who attack welfare on all fronts, but for unemployed Americans the CCC type of workfare sure seems like a better alternative.

BTW, my Dad did fight many wildfires in the CCC, but as a shovel wielding grunt rather than as a smoke jumper.

377

per

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 244]

Quote

Jo wrote:

Quote

It is time to go back to the practices of the 30's when Roosevelt created JOBS with the CCC - a program that saved our land and provided us with men who were service ready in a time of war. The pay was $30 a month and $25. of that was sent to their families and they got $5.

Jo,

The CCC was a remarkable program that gave dignified employment to thousands of impoverished Americans and provided us with roads, dams, trails and other infrastructure that is still in use 80 years later.

I learned this from my father long before it was taught to me in school. My Dad practically worshipped FDR and for good reason. My father was homeless, jobless and hungry when he was offered work in the CCC. He jumped at the chance to become a corp member and spent the rest of the Great Depression doing hard work, but getting clothed, fed and even a little pay. He credited the CCC for giving him a strong work ethic that endured for the rest of his life.

I am not one of those right wingers who attack welfare on all fronts, but for unemployed Americans the CCC type of workfare sure seems like a better alternative.

BTW, my Dad did fight many wildfires in the CCC, but as a shovel wielding grunt rather than as a smoke jumper.

377

per

377

well you are both wrong. It was Henry Wallace of
Iowa, the Sec of Agriculture, not FDR, who thought
these programs up and convinced FDR to go along,
then Wallace enacted the programs including the
CCC. FDR wasnt going to do anything! FDR then chose Wallace to be his Vice President during FDR's second term. Wallace was the most powerful VP
ever to serve until Cheney!

After FDR's death Wallace ran for President
and would have won election except for a late night putz among corporate power brokers at the Democratic Convention who chose the nameless Harry Truman instead. That is how Truman became president and it broke Henry Wallace and gave us
World War II and the Cold War.

The power brokers involved at the convention included Rockerfeller, Kennedy, and several
railroad and mining barons... they stopped the convention and the next day the podium would not recognise Wallace's name being put from the floor in a motion, and the Democratic chairman placed Truman's name in motion from the podium ...
it through the convention into chaos and troops
were waiting outside to deal with the crowd of
angry people ...

As usual, Jo doesnt even know what she's talking about! Is that any surprise? And it is through the
same lack of even basic facts that Jo got involved
in the Cooper matter, which Jo never did understand
and still does not underdstand, but flaps her gums about like some total idiot on fire ...

Jo Weber is literally one hand clapping the air!

[377 22]

Georger wrote:

Quote

well you are both wrong. It was Henry Wallace of
Iowa, the Sec of Agriculture, not FDR, who thought
these programs up and convinced FDR to go along,
then Wallace enacted the programs including the
CCC. FDR wasnt going to do anything!

OK, we will make a place at the CCC shrine for Wallace as well. It is common for US Presidents to take credit for good ideas originating from cabinet members, nothing unusual there. It was a hell of a good idea and the US got a great deal on labor for infrastructure. It was win win. It was pretty rough according to my Dad, lots of fist fights and squabbles, but they got the job done.

The CCC saved my Dad from being homeless. I am grateful to Wallace and whoever else started it and made it work so well for so many.

Sounds like Wallace really got screwed. I need to read some more US political history, didnt get much while studying EE.

Jo still makes a huge deal about Duane's sentence commutation. I too thought it was VERY unusual until Snowmman dug up proof that they were handed out wholesale during that period. It doesnt prove Duane got it for nothing in return, but it sure raises the odds that his was just one of the masses given out back then, presumably to thin the prison population.

Jo's idea that the FBI is doing a cover up of Cooper's identity is absurd. It makes ZERO sense to me.

Let's find out what would bring Sluggo back to the forum. I hope Galen has found something new to support his theory regarding Gossett. Without some hard evidence it is just going to be another speculative Cooper book.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

http://www.timeslive.co.za/sundaytimes/article174661.ece

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.