DB Cooper

[Orange1 0]

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http://www.timeslive.co.za/sundaytimes/article174661.ece

That happened a few days ago - really funny!

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As one observer put it: "What a trip. That guy took off in an Astra, came down in a parachute, and landed back at base in a helicopter. Not bad for a for a single flip."

I love the Silver Falcons ... they're great.
http://www.silverfalcons.co.za/

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

Hey, maybe those posts aren't off topic. We've thought Cooper may have accidentally had a first jump falling out the back of a Herc...what if it was an ejection ...what if he was a USAF pilot?!

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[377 22]

I met a skydiver who had to do an ejection, sort of the reverse of your scenario. He was a very experenced skydiver and a Navy S3 pilot. He and his crew ejected from an out of control S3 over the ocean. He said it was horrible. The ejection G forces were huge and violent and he damn near drowned even with all his training and floatation gear. Fortunately all survived.

I like the slower acro teams. The Blue Angels and T Birds are great but their planes are out of your field of view so quickly. The Canadian Snowbirds are one of my favorites. They do all the same kinds of maneuvers as the teams with modern jets but they do it with grossly underpowered 1950s vintage trainers. They have to carefully manage energy not just punch the throttles to pull off those impressive stunts.

An 6 ship line abreast lop doesnt look so spectacular when done slowly but it is exceedingly difficult to pull off in perfect alignment. The Snowbirds really shine on this one.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

so I'm reading this
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/exclusive-convicted-cia-spy-broke-law/story?id=8995107

and I'm wondering: Say you're in a foreign country, and a bunch of CIA guys surround you and it's obvious they're going to kidnap you.

It sounds to me like it's perfectly okay to do anything in self-defense...like shoot it out with them...whatever.

That's my basic question. I understand how in the US if law enforcement identifies themselves, you basically go with the flow and resolve any disagreements in court, not with the officer.

But say it's the CIA grabbing you...it would seem those things don't apply? Would you be convicted of murder if you killed a bunch of CIA guys that were trying to kidnap you? It doesn't seem like "go with the flow and resolve it in court" applies?

How does it ever work if the CIA kidnaps people? Does it only work if they kill the person in the end?

note: anyone using the "well they would only do this to a bad guy, so the bad guy would be convicted of something" excuse, should note in this case they grabbed the wrong guy..he's free.
I'm wondering if he was armed and opened up. what would have happened to him?

[georger 244]

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Georger wrote:

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well you are both wrong. It was Henry Wallace of
Iowa, the Sec of Agriculture, not FDR, who thought
these programs up and convinced FDR to go along,
then Wallace enacted the programs including the
CCC. FDR wasnt going to do anything!

OK, we will make a place at the CCC shrine for Wallace as well.
377

You seem to miss the point. Wallace conceived
the program and enacted it, with Congressional
help. FDR barely had anything to do with it!

As a matter of fact when FDR finally caught on
with members of Congress in motion and complaints
beginning to surface from FDR's rich buddies, FDR
damned near cancelled the program! The program
hung in limbo for several weeks at which point
Wallace went in to see FDR and slammed his fist
on FDR's desk saying 'unless you want MacArthur
shooting every citizen of the United States .....
with America going Socialist and storming the
Whitehouse ......... that caught FDR's attention. Later the same day Eleanor Rooseveldt called Wallace and through her support behind the
program in opposition to her own husband!

So you can build your shrine to FDR if you
want. Just know who and what you are saying?

And what may this have to do with Cooper?

Cooper hijacked his plane in the midst of very
turbulent times in 1971. Weve talked a tiny bit about this before. If you had to look for an
immediate cause or association for a 'grudge'
(of a personal kind) it very easily vcould have
been the turbulent times themselves, because
that is precisely the association a lot of people
made, both in and out of law enforcement.

If Cooper did not have help before and during
the hijacking, if this trully was an independent
act on the part of some single person, then after
the fact Cooper had very strong and deep social
support for his act .... leading directly to his
legend.

That broad base is the corpse Weber feeds off
claiming her Duane was Cooper. A Robin Hood!
A Fun Guy! The other truth is Jo Weber knows
very well Duane was not Cooper. Her strongest
original claim was: 'Duane might know who Cooper
was', which in itself was a stretch.

[skyjack71 0]

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As a matter of fact when FDR finally caught on with members of Congress in motion and complaints beginning to surface from FDR's rich buddies, FDR damned near cancelled the program! The program hung in limbo for several weeks at which point Wallace went in to see FDR and slammed his fist on FDR's desk saying unless you want MacArthur shooting every citizen of the United States with America going Socialist and storming the Whitehouse, that caught FDR's attention. Later the same day Eleanor Rooseveldt called Wallace and through her support behind the program in opposition to her own husband!

So you can build your shrine to FDR if you want. Just know who and what you are saying?
And what may this have to do with Cooper?

============
There was an excellent documentary on PBS with some wonderful and clear footage of Roosevelt visiting the CCC camps and having a meal with them in the field. Lots of joking around...BUT great footage of the times. Not once in this documentary did they credit anyone other than Roosevelt.
Glad to have someone like you around who knows what goes on in the White House - we could use someone there today.

The only thing this has to do with Weber or Cooper was just seeing footage from times before the 1971 hijacking. It showed the men in the camps and the hobos jumping trains. It was just having a feel of the the days when Cooper would have been maybe 10 yrs old. Having a father who was or wasn't one caught up in the depression and what if any bearing that might have on a man in 1971....who was himself in his 40's and coming into hard time.

Most of us do not even think about the yrs during which Cooper was growing up and what was his life like as a young man.
There were those of priviledge and there was the very poor. There were those who lived well until the depression and suddenly had nothing - living from hand to mouth. My be interesting to explore how Cooper had grown up.

Had an interesting conversation with someone tonight - who has more on Duane than the FBI. This person will be providing me with some information that might be very suprising...for me and everyone else.

Our illustrous FBI NEVER provided me or anyone else with the information I learned tonight - nor did the FBI ever tell me about the places Duane worked under the John Collins ID. I knew they had the capablilities to do this and I needed it for my SS benefits...but they NEVER offered even when I BEGGED.

The FBI knew I needed this information for the SS benefits and someway to prove I was also the widow of John C. Collins. If the SS belonged to a real John Collins it will show dual employment for him - in different locations. A man can not be working for XYZ company in Alt and at the same time working for another in Maine. Also one of the prison records has several contacts listed - provided by Duane yet the FBI NEVER provided that to me...and they knew I was looking for one of the wives and her daughter.

East Coast and West Coast - where were these guys 9 yrs ago?
What was SO secret about Duane Weber the FBI could not tell his wife of 17 yrs? All I EVER wanted was the truth - and all the FBI ever did was LIE to me and hide information that might have helped me understand who I was married to. There should be a law against what they have done and their concealment of information.

Maybe this guy doesn't have the information he says he does, but I think he does - he had NO reason to lie to me. The truth is never a threat, but concealment of the truth was NOT called for in this case. If the answers I have sought have been right there in his prison files - someone needs to answer to this (there is NO conceiveable reason for the FBI to lie and to evade information to a wife).

Maybe the FBI was encapable of locating inidividuals named in a prison file given by Duane as contacts, but someone else did. The FBI didn't even give me the courtesy of acknowledging this information even existed...yet I have spent yrs looking for this very infomation.


I think one would call that CONCEALMENT of facts that might have proven a man was innocent or quilty of another crime. These HOT SHOTS who call themselves FBI investigators need to hire the people who have been helping me. Will what the FBI didn't tell me prove Duane was Cooper? No one will know until it is checked out, but none of these people are alive now and if the FBI did talk to any of them I want to know and I had a right to know about these people.

It there was a link to Duane's background in those names - do you really think the FBI agents of today would have had a clue of what they were looking for. It was just some contacts...and if they were not in the phone book they didn't make the effort to find them after all they were OLD contacts from yrs prior to the 1971 event. What do they think I have been looking for all of these yrs?

look on his face saying "I had urgent business on my mind". I guess you could be fair and put a bank in the background being robbed.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

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Jo's idea that the FBI is doing a cover up of Cooper's identity is absurd. It makes ZERO sense to me.

Maybe COVER-up is a little over board - but they sure did miss the hot buttons, especially if what I was told tonight is true.

As for the commutation I didn't even know what it was - what bothers me more is that it is granted to John C. Collins with no mention of the aka of Weber and the fact the FBI would provide me with NO information on the SS for John Collins.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

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Modeled after precedent employment-conservation programs in the United States and Europe, FDR initiated creation of the program with his first inaugural address. Legislation to create the program was presented by FDR to the 73rd United States Congress on 21 March 1933:

“ ...I propose to create a civilian conservation corps to be used in simple work, not interfering with normal employment, and confining itself to forestry, the prevention of soil erosion, flood control, and similar projects. I call your attention to the fact that this type of work is of definite practical value, not only through the prevention of great present financial loss but also a means of creation future national wealth...[8]

Georger,

You claim FDR barely had anything to do with the CCC. The Congressional Record says otherwise. He touted it big time.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[SKYWHUFFO 1]

Here's somthing to mess with your head JO! Maybe your husband was really John C Collins and Duane Weber never existed or was the made up alias or was sombody Collins knew and took his identity? HHHHMMMMM???????? Ever think about that? What a mind blower. Just like everything else speculation and theory. Can anybody show proof on anything related to the case- it can't be done.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

skywuffo,


Weber existed. He had a father and a mother with a broken heart.

I wish Jo was better at telling her story and you (all) could see what I see (have seen). If Jo spent less time bashing the FBI because they don't meet her expectations as a "private investigation agency" and more time showing the facts about Duane she would get more support from everyone.

Just my 2-cents.


Sluggo

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[377 22]

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Here's somthing to mess with your head JO! Maybe your husband was really John C Collins and Duane Weber never existed or was the made up alias or was sombody Collins knew and took his identity? HHHHMMMMM???????? Ever think about that? What a mind blower. Just like everything else speculation and theory. Can anybody show proof on anything related to the case- it can't be done.

Here is another theory. Duane Weber was posing as Cooper to pull off a con job, maybe to get someone to front money for a Cooper loot recovery expedition or something like that. His library research on Cooper wold sure match that scenario. Cooper wouldnt need to research Cooper. Duane had a lot more history as a con man than he did as a parachutist. The part that doesnt fit is his death bed confession, but maybe he just wanted Jo to remember him as a big time operator, a guy who really could pull off the big one without getting caught and without hurting any individuals.

Nobody wants to be remembered as a small time criminal who always got caught.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

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skywuffo,


Weber existed. He had a father and a mother with a broken heart.

I wish Jo was better at telling her story and you (all) could see what I see (have seen). If Jo spent less time bashing the FBI because they don't meet her expectations as a "private investigation agency" and more time showing the facts about Duane she would get more support from everyone.

Just my 2-cents.


Sluggo

Jo plays poker with the facts, bluffing, holding cards, etc. It seems to be a personality habit she is unable to break out of. We've all tried...

I too wish she'd just present what she actually has without spin or interpretation and let the facts speak for themselves.

There is no reason to be stealthy. This is an OLD crime, most of Duane's associates are probably demented or in wheelchairs. Jo's fear for her safety seem unfounded. In fact her safety would be enhanced by full public disclosure. That removes the incentive to silence her before she spills the beans. I think it's all groundless paranoia, but that doesnt mean that Jo's expressed fears are insincere.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

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Say you're in a foreign country, and a bunch of CIA guys surround you and it's obvious they're going to kidnap you.

It sounds to me like it's perfectly okay to do anything in self-defense...like shoot it out with them...whatever.

Yes, self defense actions including the use of deadly force if you had a resaonble fear for your own life, would be justified under those facts... but better not assume that justice will be fairly rendered in all foreign countries.

It is disgusting to me that Obama supports and continues so called extraordinary rendition, a euphemism for the process of exporting prisoners for torture. We used to be a better country than that. What about the US Constitution that he professed to deeply respect? The CIA is leading him around by the nose. Why does he follow?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

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Say you're in a foreign country, and a bunch of CIA guys surround you and it's obvious they're going to kidnap you.

It sounds to me like it's perfectly okay to do anything in self-defense...like shoot it out with them...whatever.

Yes, self defense actions including the use of deadly force if you had a resaonble fear for your own life, would be justified under those facts.

It is disgusting to me that Obama supports and continues so called extraordinary rendition, a euphemism for the process of exporting prisoners for torture. We used to be a better country than that. What about the US Constitution that he professed to deeply respect? The CIA is leading him around by the nose. Why does he follow?

377

Thanks. Yeah, the VP of Marketing at Snowmman Industries was thinking of a new promotion.

"Snowmman Industries. Your last best hope when the US wants you dead."

or

"You've just been named enemy of the state. Your supply chain has abandoned you. When all else fails: Snowmman Industries."

or

"Tired of dealing with fickle changes in political climate? Snowmman Industries: Your goals are our goals."

[Orange1 0]

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Here is another theory. Duane Weber was posing as Cooper to pull off a con job, maybe to get someone to front money for a Cooper loot recovery expedition or something like that. His library research on Cooper wold sure match that scenario. Cooper wouldnt need to research Cooper. Duane had a lot more history as a con man than he did as a parachutist.

Very insightful 377... and makes sense.

Sluggo - you've said before that Weber had an interesting story. However, I also recall you saying you didn't believe he was Cooper. Has something changed your opinion on that yet?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[377 22]

What would Snowmman Industries charge to engineer a massive all out firefight between Triple Canopy and Blackwater?

It would be a good investment for the US taxpayers, and Snowmman Industries can weaken two competitors in the process.

"PARIS — South Africa canceled a multibillion-dollar order for the Airbus A400M troop transport plane Thursday, dealing a painful blow to the program just weeks before the aircraft was expected to make its long-delayed first flight."

South Africa just backed out of their deal to puchase A400Ms, the supposed C 130 successor. Get in there quick Snow with refurbed Antonovs. They could have a dozen of them for the price of one of those high tech tatical transports from Airbus that is way behind schedule.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

What do the rest of you forum readers think of my Duane as Cooper con man theory?

It would explain a lot including the lack of contemporaneous (1971) hard evidence and the presence of subsequent (post 1971) manufacured circumstantial evidence (sentimental journey, library Cooper research etc.). We know Duane wasn't an experienced parachutist but was a long time con man. He didnt seem to be a fame seeker, just a crook. He didnt want the world to think he was Cooper, just certain people needed to perfect the con. It's just speculation but it fits the facts. It doesnt call Jo a liar, just a victim of Duane's lies.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[BruceSmith 3]

Greetings everyone,

I just wanted to let you know that I am on at intended hiatus from the thread and all DB Cooper research due to medical reasons.

I'm okay, but my colitis has reared-up, along with the need to address the underlying issue of an auto-immune response that is fueled in part by what makes me a good investigative reporter - a fierce passion for justice. However, that attitude is also accompanied by a searing vengeance, anger, and a rage against the machine type stuff that is off the charts some days. So I need to calm those wild fellas, too.

All the best to y'all, and thanks for all the assistance you've given me.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Orange1 said :

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Sluggo - you've said before that Weber had an interesting story. However, I also recall you saying you didn't believe he was Cooper. Has something changed your opinion on that yet?

What I probably said (I’m really not sure) was; “Duane has quite a story to tell, I’m just not sure it’s the story Jo thinks it is.”

I have never completely dismissed Weber, however, I’m not as “hot” on him as I once was.

Some recent information (not public) probably moves Duane even further from the “Cooper Possibility.”

377’s recent post (Re: Duane in the planning phase of a Cooper money recovery scam) really does fit what I know about Duane and his relationships. It still doesn’t address some of the really astonishing aspects of Duane Weber’s life. But, then again, a theory doesn’t have to be “all encompassing” to be supportable. Duane may have had a lot of irons in the fire.

I still think he might have been involved in a search (official or otherwise).

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[377 22]

Bruce,

My best wishes for a fast and full recovery and return to the forum. We'll really miss you.

Even if you dont do any research for a while just say hello from time to time and tell us how you are doing.

There is so much to rage against these days. too bad you can't take a vacation far away from all that riles you up.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

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Duane had a lot more history as a con man than he did as a parachutist. The part that doesnt fit is his death bed confession, but maybe he just wanted Jo to remember him as a big time operator, a guy who really could pull off the big one without getting caught and without hurting any individuals.

Nobody wants to be remembered as a small time criminal who always got caught.

You and others have tooted this before, BUT if that senario was true - don't you think he would have been sure that I understood who Dan Cooper was? I have asked before if the media or some other group ever made any fake tickets, stubs and bank bags to sell or distribute. If that is the way he wanted me to remember him - he would have been absolutely sure - I understood and he would have left more behind than the did or have been sure I understood what it was and were it was. Duane was not a GAME player and I doubt doing something like that ever entered his mind. A keeper of secrets - yes and he sure as hell had a lot of those.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

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Some recent information (not public) probably moves Duane even further from the “Cooper Possibility.”

Am I aware or been told of this information by FBI and is it recent information? I would appreciate an email or call from you explaining what this is.

I spent over 3 hrs with an individual yesterday and sent him some information to research. This individual and I are on different sides of the fence, but has the means and capabilities to help me find some resolutions.

If you are referring to what Jerry claimed about family saying Duane was with them - that one did NOT pan out. If the FBI has more information that can help me to resolve this then I need to be in the loop. Otherwise someone is making a decision on the basis of what they think they found or the opinions of someone else. I would be very interested to know what this information is about and I believe I am entitled to know.

I have always been open to information about Duane that can be proven - just like is requested of me over and over.
Anything I can learn about Duane is helpful - pro or con.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 244]

Quote

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Modeled after precedent employment-conservation programs in the United States and Europe, FDR initiated creation of the program with his first inaugural address. Legislation to create the program was presented by FDR to the 73rd United States Congress on 21 March 1933:

“ ...I propose to create a civilian conservation corps to be used in simple work, not interfering with normal employment, and confining itself to forestry, the prevention of soil erosion, flood control, and similar projects. I call your attention to the fact that this type of work is of definite practical value, not only through the prevention of great present financial loss but also a means of creation future national wealth...[8]

Georger,

You claim FDR barely had anything to do with the CCC. The Congressional Record says otherwise. He touted it big time.

377

I stand corrected.

I am wrong.

History is wrong.

Textbooks are wrong.

NPB is wrong.

Ken Burns is wrong.

Louis Shamey, Ken Rariden, Ike, etal were wrong.

The Wallace Foundation is wrong!

377 is correct!

Maybe the Congressional record came AFTER
the conception-launching of the program?

Maybe eggs come after chickens?

377 has won the debate. Burn all the libraries!

[377 22]

Georger,

Why go to such extremes? What Roosevelt said in his inaugural address to Congress is undisputed public record. I already conceded that FDR may have taken credit for Wallace's cabinet level work, a common presidential ploy.

My Dad liked FDR, a lot. I liked what my Dad liked. Was I duped? I really don't think so. FDR did promote the CCC as you can read.

Calm down. Take a deep breath. This isn't worth harsh words, sarcasm or ridicule.

Peace,
377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

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Anything I can learn about Duane is helpful - pro or con.

Duane was a pro. Duane was a con.

Just joking Jo, but in the absence of hard irrefutable evidence linking Duane to Cooper, you can't tell whether he was posing or not. Show us a twenty. Show us anything unambiguous. You can't. Therefore it is entirely possible that Duane was posing as Cooper. You prefer the alternative though it it less likely than the poser case.

You are free to believe what you wish, but stop blaming the FBI for your woes. You lived with Duane. You were in a far better position than the FBI to produce evidence proving your hypothesis.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.