DB Cooper

[377 22]

Jerry,

Snow knows a retired soldier isn't likely to have enough spare cash to charter a helo. Can you put Snow (blindfolded) in a 4WD or ATV and get him to a suitable area? I guess he'd just follow the tracks out so maybe a helo is needed after all.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Orange1 0]

Great :) Get wierd al jankovich to record it and sell it at the annual DB Cooper fest, etc

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

Jerry's gotten me thinking about, okay, when have I been in OR and WA and what happened.

I was on the north side of Mt Hood one winter with a friend. Not a big deal, but lonely, since most people go up the easier sides, and not as much traffic in winter.

But we did get lost coming down. And we were following a road. The road twisted and turned, and we knew we had left our car on the road, so we figured we would walk into it. But we took these shortcuts they had between switchbacks, and we must have bypassed the car somewhere. (edit) It was my wife's Honda Civic. We borrowed it, and it got stuck in the snow and my friend pushed in the hood trying to shove it out. We left it figuring the snow would melt by the time we returned. We didn't think the hood was a big deal. My wife did.

Hmm. probably my friends will say I have more of these kind of long walkout stories, than maybe I will admit!


It's the worst feeling, after you've walked downhill a long long way. And you have to turn to your buddy and say "We have to go back" Because you're never sure which way to go..basically a toss of the coin...now that I'm thinking of it, the worst "we have to go back" stories have been summer.

I can think of a number of stories like that. Just not being able to find the car.

Now, really being lost. It's hard to feel lost for more than a day. I can remember only maybe once when I had to go to sleep at night thinking "I really have no idea where I am"....but at least I knew I was no more than a day's travel from where I started.

Why the fuck do people panic at a day's travel?

It's when fatigue, dehydration, unable to stay warm/dry set in..that's the hard times. You don't get that in just one day unless you do something stupid.

[snowmman 3]

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Jerry,

Snow knows a retired soldier isn't likely to have enough spare cash to charter a helo. Can you put Snow (blindfolded) in a 4WD or ATV and get him to a suitable area? I guess he'd just follow the tracks out so maybe a helo is needed after all.

377

I want to be alone in the woods with him and convince him to pull a weapon on me too, so I can beat the shit out of him.
I'm tired of these assholes with guns like Jerry and Sluggo.
Like it means shit.

(edit) Jerry: I'm 6'4". Right now I weigh 190-195. My usual good weight is 180-185. You know what I'm tired of? All these women who startle when I come around the corner, like I'm supposed to apologize for scaring them. I'll take it out on you.

[snowmman 3]

See here's my pet peeve.
All these fucking military guys who think they know jack shit about survival or outdoor skills.

Every military guy I've ever met has been dumb as a board. And unsafe to be with, because they've been coddled in the massive-group approach the military has.

Now I understand the military operations and their needs. But to say they understand outdoors and survival more than anyone else (especially individual in extremis situations not involving combat?) ....well only when you're talking about a bunch of 18 year olds with no experience thrown into stuff that's new for them. I mean we can break down these so called high-end military training camp things Jerry has mentioned, and you'll see what I mean.

They are bullshit. I wouldn't trust anyone trained there to hold my dog's leash in winter. That's just fact.

[377 22]

Snow wrote:

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Every military guy I've ever met has been dumb as a board. And unsafe to be with, because they've been coddled in the massive-group approach the military has.

That's not been my experience. I have a friend who is ex USCG. He doesn't have a degree but he's smart as hell. He was a top main frame troubleshooter for IBM back in the day. He did far more than blindly swap circuit cards. He can fix anything from diesel engines to radar transceivers.


A guy I work with has long hair in a pony tail but spent many years in the left seat of a B 52G bomber. He is creative and flexible. Smart as hell too with degrees in law and engineering.

There are dummies in uniform and dummies in expensive suits.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

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Snow wrote:

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Every military guy I've ever met has been dumb as a board. And unsafe to be with, because they've been coddled in the massive-group approach the military has.

That's not been my experience. I have a friend who is ex USCG. He doesn't have a degree but he's smart as hell. He was a top main frame troubleshooter for IBM back in the day. He did far more than blindly swap circuit cards. He can fix anything from diesel engines to radar transceivers.


A guy I work with has long hair in a pony tail but spent many years in the left seat of a B 52G bomber. He is creative and flexible. Smart as hell too with degrees in law and engineering.

There are dummies in uniform and dummies in expensive suits.

377

Agreed. I'm talking about the ones that like to lecture about them knowing "the one true way".

My experience has been that people who really know, never lecture. They always realize they're limited by their own experiences, and maybe have been lucky enough to have some others haven't, and others have had some they've not.

Once people start spewing dogma, that's when my b.s. detector goes off.

I know I post a lot, But I don't think I spew dogma? Maybe I do? Let me have it then.

[Amazon 7]

Talk about BULLSHIT....

Sheesh..

You do know that the USAF Survival School usually trains at least 100 aircrew every week of the year, just at the other corner of Washington State... every year since 1968 when it moved there from Stead AFB in Nevada. We took a bunch of college boys and taught them the skills every week to do exactly what Dan Cooper did.. to bail or eject from an aircraft in flight.. parachute to the ground and survive. We taught them how to improvise all kinds of equipment from their harness and from the parachute itself. Did I mention.. they were military and getting paid a whole lot less money to go thru that two week training course than what Dan Cooper got from his excellent little adventure

There are plenty of people who have made jumps under really lousy conditions.. and lived to tell about it. In many cases they also had very little equipment.

I would love to watch you actually spend some time in that area.. I have hunted all over it especially when I lived in Vancouver.. its not that hard to do quite well there... even at the end of NOV which is usually after most of the hunting seasons are over for the year on this side of the state. The area is littered with roads... and was even back in the 70's when I first started hunting in the area. With any skills whatsoever its very probable that MANY of those college boys could do that jump and walk away with the bucks. If they could do it.. well.. he could have done it.. Hell I could still do it and I am old and decrepit now... given enough financial incentive.




CHRIST, One thing that this thread makes me want to do is put a rig on a bunch of candy asses... and huck em from a plane.

[377 22]

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CHRIST, One thing that this thread makes me want to do is put a rig on a bunch of candy asses... and huck em from a plane

A tough as nails drill sgt/survival trainer with a heart of gold. If you didn't have one you'd have omitted the rig part.

Happy Holidays.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Amazon 7]

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CHRIST, One thing that this thread makes me want to do is put a rig on a bunch of candy asses... and huck em from a plane

A tough as nails drill sgt/survival trainer with a heart of gold. If you didn't have one you'd have omitted the rig part.

Happy Holidays.

377

Trust me... that thought DID cross my mind.. but I have grown to be all kinder and gentler in my old age

And a Happy Nude Year to yall too

[JerryThomas 0]

Amazon. I was Head Survival Instructer at the Northern warfare training center at Ft Greely Alaska I taught your airforce Instructor's and other armed forces. How ever our course was a lot longer than a week. I'm sure If you were in the military you've heard of NWTC. Now as far as my financial status I asure you this is one retired soldier that does not have any financial woe's.Snowmman stand by for your Email and enough with the name calling. Jerry

[377 22]

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I know I post a lot, But I don't think I spew dogma? Maybe I do? Let me have it then.

No dogma Snow, but you are awfully quick to insult. It really doesn't accomplish much. Why attack Jerry? Wouldn't a civil dialogue be better? Jerry is not the enemy. Neither is Sluggo, Jo or Georger. I get testy with Jo but I've tried not to attack her personally.
I am listening to Coast to Coast AM right now. Angels, not an errant Russian missile, caused that glowing spiral in Norweigan skies. It had something to do warning us about the Large Hadron Collider. The guest claims to be a physicist, mathematician and skydiver. As a skydiver he "knew" that high altitude winds would have quickly destroyed the spiral if it were just rocket exhaust. The enduring stability showed it was not a normal event.

Tune in.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Amazon 7]

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Amazon. I was Head Survival Instructer at the Northern warfare training center at Ft Greely Alaska I taught your airforce Instructor's and other armed forces. How ever our course was a lot longer than a week. I'm sure If you were in the military you've heard of NWTC. Now as far as my financial status I asure you this is one retired soldier that does not have any financial woe's.Snowmman stand by for your Email and enough with the name calling. Jerry

I did the USAF Cool School at Eilson AFB in DEC of 1972.. and served as a SERE instructor for 8 years.. I had lots of fun going camping all over the world compliments of the USAF. I am sure you know the USAF training gave the students far less gear when they were doing survival training.... If I would have had my way I would have extended their training a bit by hucking them from planes as well.

[snowmman 3]

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Amazon. I was Head Survival Instructer at the Northern warfare training center at Ft Greely Alaska I taught your airforce Instructor's and other armed forces. How ever our course was a lot longer than a week. I'm sure If you were in the military you've heard of NWTC. Now as far as my financial status I asure you this is one retired soldier that does not have any financial woe's.Snowmman stand by for your Email and enough with the name calling. Jerry

I did the USAF Cool School at Eilson AFB in DEC of 1972.. and served as a SERE instructor for 8 years.. I had lots of fun going camping all over the world compliments of the USAF. I am sure you know the USAF training gave the students far less gear when they were doing survival training.... If I would have had my way I would have extended their training a bit by hucking them from planes as well.

Amazon, I think you're agreeing with me. Yes?
I'm just a middle-of-the-road guy, but if we're going to throw down, I'm pretty confident I could out-photo either of you guys with personal in-extremis shots.

But that's not the point.

It's a simple matter of "Pick a spot in WA. Claim it's the DZ. Prove you can't walk out to humanity". So far, the one spot Jerry has pointed to, has been obscenely close to humanity. Yet Jerry claims it's "death woods".

That's the bullshit part. I've read Jerry Thomas' and Himmelsbach's bullshit and had to put up with it because Jerry gets some slack for being a soldier ..but it's bullshit.

[JerryThomas 0]

Amazon. In 1972 I was stationed at Ft Jackson SC as adrill Seargeant.stayed there for a few years.Then was transfered to Korea 9th Infantry Division Then back to Jackson. Iwas assigned to the northern warfare training center at Ft Greely Alaska in 1980.We taught Asault Climber's course Sking Both Alpine and Nordic. High Altitude rescue Numurious cold weather survival escape and evasion courses. Mountaineering Glasier travel and rescue. Rock climbing and combat mountain asault courses.along with river navigation and movement behind enemy lines in all weather conditions.Jerry

[snowmman 3]

377 said "No dogma Snow, but you are awfully quick to insult."

It's only an insult if it's true.
If it's not true, I'm just another dumb guy spouting off on DZ.com and you can all laugh at me.

Now, aren't we after truth here?

See the "let's be nice to people full of shit" is what leads to the Jo Weber effect. Jo Weber, Jerry Thomas, and Himmelsbach, they're all part of the same bullshit.

[Amazon 7]

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Amazon. In 1972 I was stationed at Ft Jackson SC as adrill Seargeant.stayed there for a few years.Then was transfered to Korea 9th Infantry Division Then back to Jackson. Iwas assigned to the northern warfare training center at Ft Greely Alaska in 1980.We taught Asault Climber's course Sking Both Alpine and Nordic. High Altitude rescue Numurious cold weather survival escape and evasion courses. Mountaineering Glasier travel and rescue. Rock climbing and combat mountain asault courses.along with river navigation and movement behind enemy lines in all weather conditions.Jerry

Sounds like a lot of LEG work

[snowmman 3]

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Amazon. In 1972 I was stationed at Ft Jackson SC as adrill Seargeant.stayed there for a few years.Then was transfered to Korea 9th Infantry Division Then back to Jackson. Iwas assigned to the northern warfare training center at Ft Greely Alaska in 1980.We taught Asault Climber's course Sking Both Alpine and Nordic. High Altitude rescue Numurious cold weather survival escape and evasion courses. Mountaineering Glasier travel and rescue. Rock climbing and combat mountain asault courses.along with river navigation and movement behind enemy lines in all weather conditions.Jerry

Have you ever rescued someone? I'd be interested in hearing the details. Training doesn't count. What's something that you did that you trained for, but wasn't training?

High Altitude Rescue? Like what? I can't imagine you did anything other than call in choppers. Is there more to that?

[JerryThomas 0]

Snowmman Check your Email. Call me Jerry

[Amazon 7]

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Amazon. In 1972 I was stationed at Ft Jackson SC as adrill Seargeant.stayed there for a few years.Then was transfered to Korea 9th Infantry Division Then back to Jackson. Iwas assigned to the northern warfare training center at Ft Greely Alaska in 1980.We taught Asault Climber's course Sking Both Alpine and Nordic. High Altitude rescue Numurious cold weather survival escape and evasion courses. Mountaineering Glasier travel and rescue. Rock climbing and combat mountain asault courses.along with river navigation and movement behind enemy lines in all weather conditions.Jerry

Have you ever rescued someone? I'd be interested in hearing the details. Training doesn't count. What's something that you did that you trained for, but wasn't training?

High Altitude Rescue? Like what? I can't imagine you did anything other than call in choppers. Is there more to that?

I hate to tell you this..but the types of training the military does... has led to a hell of a lot of training deaths over the years.

[snowmman 3]

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Amazon. In 1972 I was stationed at Ft Jackson SC as adrill Seargeant.stayed there for a few years.Then was transfered to Korea 9th Infantry Division Then back to Jackson. Iwas assigned to the northern warfare training center at Ft Greely Alaska in 1980.We taught Asault Climber's course Sking Both Alpine and Nordic. High Altitude rescue Numurious cold weather survival escape and evasion courses. Mountaineering Glasier travel and rescue. Rock climbing and combat mountain asault courses.along with river navigation and movement behind enemy lines in all weather conditions.Jerry

Sounds like a lot of LEG work

Sounds like bullshit to me. Training is training. Let's hear some real life stories if there's bragging to be done.

Let's see. Jerry tell us about the time you actually fell in a crevasse, not on purpose during training, and it was just you and your partner with no one for 70 miles? How'd you make it back?

[georger 244]

I did the USAF Cool School at Eilson AFB in DEC of 1972.. and served as a SERE instructor for 8 years.. I had lots of fun going camping all over the world compliments of the USAF. I am sure you know the USAF training gave the students far less gear when they were doing survival training.... If I would have had my way I would have extended their training a bit by hucking them from planes as well.

Good school. Anthropologists & Stateside physicians helped set up those survival courses back in the 60s. Still have some old memrographed spiral bound training manuals from those courses. ....
dont eat polar bear liver. Hyper vitaminosis.
Vitamin A.

[snowmman 3]

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Amazon. In 1972 I was stationed at Ft Jackson SC as adrill Seargeant.stayed there for a few years.Then was transfered to Korea 9th Infantry Division Then back to Jackson. Iwas assigned to the northern warfare training center at Ft Greely Alaska in 1980.We taught Asault Climber's course Sking Both Alpine and Nordic. High Altitude rescue Numurious cold weather survival escape and evasion courses. Mountaineering Glasier travel and rescue. Rock climbing and combat mountain asault courses.along with river navigation and movement behind enemy lines in all weather conditions.Jerry

Have you ever rescued someone? I'd be interested in hearing the details. Training doesn't count. What's something that you did that you trained for, but wasn't training?

High Altitude Rescue? Like what? I can't imagine you did anything other than call in choppers. Is there more to that?

I hate to tell you this..but the types of training the military does... has led to a hell of a lot of training deaths over the years.

exactly! I think you get what I mean. It's like there's this macho thing going down, as opposed to "it's all about getting home safe". I'm serious about how the military training (for small teams like 2-3) seems to play catchup to the non-military groups in terms of skills/equipment/current techniques...see the sport aspect of it, is way out there...it's 20-30 year olds, with the best gear, fitness and training, and experience and learning...large groups in the military training...can't compete with that...because you have to WANT to put it out there...there's really no sane reason to do it..so how you going to train that? train to be a nut case?

See it's not just about the training...it's about wanting it.

Another example: all the gear/equipment migration is from sport to military, not the other way around. Same thing with instructors.

(edit) Note that I'm equating if you're dying = means you're stupid. Explain details if it means otherwise.

(edit) I'll caveat the above with a guess that the macho stuff is partly tied to the need to be ready to die in combat situations. Whereas sport situations have different goals (have fun/stay alive/goals can be adjusted).

I guess I'm positing the military stuff doesn't create the flexible mind/advanced state-of-the-art experiences, in my personal experiences with folks. I'd never do something with a military guy.

[JerryThomas 0]

Snowmman Believe it or not I have. Im even a combat vet. Of course you already knew that. Here's the best part Im not a want a be. Im Highly decorated and can Prove it. Or your welcome to check my military record's.I'll even show you a copy of my DD form 214 It list all my awards and decorations. I have earned my bragging right's the hard way. most combat vet's have. So when we meet I will bring all the paper work for you to review even copy if you would like. Also we'll pay a visit to Ralph and Larry Carr. Maybe we can get Geoger to Join us. Jerry

[snowmman 3]

If I remember right, no one was shooting at Cooper.
Why does combat experience matter here?

(edit) Why the fuck would I care about Larry Carr or Himmelsbach? I think they're both stupid???