DB Cooper

[Amazon 7]

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Are you really going to charter a helo? Why not just rent a Cessna and have Snow make a more realistic entry into the "death woods" by chute? You could S/L him in a round and you'd know he'd land somewhere under an open chute. I have a GPS tracking beacon we could put on him. It would not only give his position but also his heart rate and temperature. It runs in the 144 MHz ham band, but there are mountaintop repeaters in the area that would pick up his signal most of the time.

I know Mike.. and he has a sweet little Cessna and its very close to the area since he is just to the NW of Mt St Helens... If he was reading this thread I think he would agree thtat some people need to put their asses out of the plane so they might discover a clue.

Heck I even got a sat view of Ariel... look at all the nice potential LZ in this picure... hell there is even the beach there to swoop

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Ariel+WA&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=50.291089,124.453125&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Ariel,+Cowlitz,+Washington&ll=45.957467,-122.560301&spn=0.005437,0.015192&t=h&z=17

[snowmman 3]

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Are you really going to charter a helo? Why not just rent a Cessna and have Snow make a more realistic entry into the "death woods" by chute? You could S/L him in a round and you'd know he'd land somewhere under an open chute. I have a GPS tracking beacon we could put on him. It would not only give his position but also his heart rate and temperature. It runs in the 144 MHz ham band, but there are mountaintop repeaters in the area that would pick up his signal most of the time.

I know Mike.. and he has a sweet little Cessna and its very close to the area since he is just to the NW of Mt St Helens... If he was reading this thread I think he would agree thtat some people need to put their asses out of the plane so they might discover a clue.

Hi Amazon.
I've never jumped, and it would be an interesting experience.
If you can arrange this Cessna jump somehow, I'd do it. It would be interesting, to actually know, as you say.

I mentioned this before. When I'm calibrating and trying to understand whether you guys are just old farts trying to act macho, or whether there's something real here.....

The article I posted about the guy who did his first jump off El Cap as a base jump...and we got the background that he had only had some tunnel and ground training beforehand.

Now I'm sure that was scary, But hey, no problem for him. So execution-wise, I'm not sure what bullshit you're talking about.

Any bullshit thing you're going to do with a cessna seems pretty mentally easy, fear-wise, if that's the angle you're going after.

Is this a test of who's macho and who's not? I'm up for it. Free plane rides are fun.

[Amazon 7]

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Are you really going to charter a helo? Why not just rent a Cessna and have Snow make a more realistic entry into the "death woods" by chute? You could S/L him in a round and you'd know he'd land somewhere under an open chute. I have a GPS tracking beacon we could put on him. It would not only give his position but also his heart rate and temperature. It runs in the 144 MHz ham band, but there are mountaintop repeaters in the area that would pick up his signal most of the time.

I know Mike.. and he has a sweet little Cessna and its very close to the area since he is just to the NW of Mt St Helens... If he was reading this thread I think he would agree thtat some people need to put their asses out of the plane so they might discover a clue.

Hi Amazon.
I've never jumped, and it would be an interesting experience.
If you can arrange this Cessna jump somehow, I'd do it. It would be interesting, to actually know, as you say.

I put this link in the other thread.. right there at Ariel WA... lot of nice grass places to land....

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Ariel+WA&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=50.291089,124.453125&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Ariel,+Cowlitz,+Washington&ll=45.957467,-122.560301&spn=0.005437,0.015192&t=h&z=17

The closest DZ to where Cooper jumped would be this... they can hook you up with training and the cessna...Mike might even have a round stuck in the loft someplace. I have a few jumps there and even did Video for him when we set the NW record for tandem jumpers in one day at his DZ.

http://www.skydivetoledo.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=17&Itemid=35

[snowmman 3]

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Are you really going to charter a helo? Why not just rent a Cessna and have Snow make a more realistic entry into the "death woods" by chute? You could S/L him in a round and you'd know he'd land somewhere under an open chute. I have a GPS tracking beacon we could put on him. It would not only give his position but also his heart rate and temperature. It runs in the 144 MHz ham band, but there are mountaintop repeaters in the area that would pick up his signal most of the time.

I know Mike.. and he has a sweet little Cessna and its very close to the area since he is just to the NW of Mt St Helens... If he was reading this thread I think he would agree thtat some people need to put their asses out of the plane so they might discover a clue.

Hi Amazon.
I've never jumped, and it would be an interesting experience.
If you can arrange this Cessna jump somehow, I'd do it. It would be interesting, to actually know, as you say.

I put this link in the other thread.. right there at Ariel WA... lot of nice grass places to land....

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Ariel+WA&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=50.291089,124.453125&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Ariel,+Cowlitz,+Washington&ll=45.957467,-122.560301&spn=0.005437,0.015192&t=h&z=17

The closest DZ to where Cooper jumped would be this... they can hook you up with training and the cessna...Mike might even have a round stuck in the loft someplace. I have a few jumps there and even did Video for him when we set the NW record for tandem jumpers in one day at his DZ.

http://www.skydivetoledo.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=17&Itemid=35

Arrange it, give me a date. Like I said, better after christmas.
you pay for the plane. I'll pay to get there.

[Amazon 7]

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Are you really going to charter a helo? Why not just rent a Cessna and have Snow make a more realistic entry into the "death woods" by chute? You could S/L him in a round and you'd know he'd land somewhere under an open chute. I have a GPS tracking beacon we could put on him. It would not only give his position but also his heart rate and temperature. It runs in the 144 MHz ham band, but there are mountaintop repeaters in the area that would pick up his signal most of the time.

I know Mike.. and he has a sweet little Cessna and its very close to the area since he is just to the NW of Mt St Helens... If he was reading this thread I think he would agree thtat some people need to put their asses out of the plane so they might discover a clue.

Hi Amazon.
I've never jumped, and it would be an interesting experience.
If you can arrange this Cessna jump somehow, I'd do it. It would be interesting, to actually know, as you say.

I mentioned this before. When I'm calibrating and trying to understand whether you guys are just old farts trying to act macho, or whether there's something real here.....

The article I posted about the guy who did his first jump off El Cap as a base jump...and we got the background that he had only had some tunnel and ground training beforehand.

Now I'm sure that was scary, But hey, no problem for him. So execution-wise, I'm not sure what bullshit you're talking about.

Any bullshit thing you're going to do with a cessna seems pretty mentally easy, fear-wise, if that's the angle you're going after.

Is this a test of who's macho and who's not? I'm up for it. Free plane rides are fun.

Ask around... I think you will find plenty of people on this site that know me... and have jumnped with me... all over the country. I may be old and decrepit.. but I know I could still do that jump at night... in bad weather... I have quite a few night jumps.. I have hundreds of round jumps... and the area where he jumped at.. I have hiked and climbed and hunted in for many years.

[snowmman 3]

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Are you really going to charter a helo? Why not just rent a Cessna and have Snow make a more realistic entry into the "death woods" by chute? You could S/L him in a round and you'd know he'd land somewhere under an open chute. I have a GPS tracking beacon we could put on him. It would not only give his position but also his heart rate and temperature. It runs in the 144 MHz ham band, but there are mountaintop repeaters in the area that would pick up his signal most of the time.

I know Mike.. and he has a sweet little Cessna and its very close to the area since he is just to the NW of Mt St Helens... If he was reading this thread I think he would agree thtat some people need to put their asses out of the plane so they might discover a clue.

Hi Amazon.
I've never jumped, and it would be an interesting experience.
If you can arrange this Cessna jump somehow, I'd do it. It would be interesting, to actually know, as you say.

I mentioned this before. When I'm calibrating and trying to understand whether you guys are just old farts trying to act macho, or whether there's something real here.....

The article I posted about the guy who did his first jump off El Cap as a base jump...and we got the background that he had only had some tunnel and ground training beforehand.

Now I'm sure that was scary, But hey, no problem for him. So execution-wise, I'm not sure what bullshit you're talking about.

Any bullshit thing you're going to do with a cessna seems pretty mentally easy, fear-wise, if that's the angle you're going after.

Is this a test of who's macho and who's not? I'm up for it. Free plane rides are fun.

Ask around... I think you will find plenty of people on this site that know me... and have jumnped with me... all over the country. I may be old and decrepit.. but I know I could still do that jump at night... in bad weather... I have quite a few night jumps.. I have hundreds of round jumps... and the area where he jumped at.. I have hiked and climbed and hunted in for many years.

Hi Amazon.
I'm not interested in jumping as a hobby or anything like that, so I have no need to make friends here. You could ask "Why the fuck do I post?" I have no answer to that. I don't know.

I'm sure you're everything you say you are. That's great.

But we're talking about a lot of things. Being macho. Bogus military training. Why people die doing dangerous things. Exposure issues in the woods we're talking about. Weather survival.

Sounds like it's all degraded into bar talk.

My take is that skydiving is mostly about bar talk.

[Amazon 7]

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Are you really going to charter a helo? Why not just rent a Cessna and have Snow make a more realistic entry into the "death woods" by chute? You could S/L him in a round and you'd know he'd land somewhere under an open chute. I have a GPS tracking beacon we could put on him. It would not only give his position but also his heart rate and temperature. It runs in the 144 MHz ham band, but there are mountaintop repeaters in the area that would pick up his signal most of the time.

I know Mike.. and he has a sweet little Cessna and its very close to the area since he is just to the NW of Mt St Helens... If he was reading this thread I think he would agree thtat some people need to put their asses out of the plane so they might discover a clue.

Hi Amazon.
I've never jumped, and it would be an interesting experience.
If you can arrange this Cessna jump somehow, I'd do it. It would be interesting, to actually know, as you say.

I mentioned this before. When I'm calibrating and trying to understand whether you guys are just old farts trying to act macho, or whether there's something real here.....

The article I posted about the guy who did his first jump off El Cap as a base jump...and we got the background that he had only had some tunnel and ground training beforehand.

Now I'm sure that was scary, But hey, no problem for him. So execution-wise, I'm not sure what bullshit you're talking about.

Any bullshit thing you're going to do with a cessna seems pretty mentally easy, fear-wise, if that's the angle you're going after.

Is this a test of who's macho and who's not? I'm up for it. Free plane rides are fun.

Ask around... I think you will find plenty of people on this site that know me... and have jumnped with me... all over the country. I may be old and decrepit.. but I know I could still do that jump at night... in bad weather... I have quite a few night jumps.. I have hundreds of round jumps... and the area where he jumped at.. I have hiked and climbed and hunted in for many years.

Hi Amazon.
I'm not interested in jumping as a hobby or anything like that, so I have no need to make friends here. You could ask "Why the fuck do I post?" I have no answer to that. I don't know.

I'm sure you're everything you say you are. That's great.

But we're talking about a lot of things. Being macho. Bogus military training. Why people die doing dangerous things. Exposure issues in the woods we're talking about. Weather survival.

Sounds like it's all degraded into bar talk.

My take is that skydiving is mostly about bar talk.

No its about the jumping.. I have a call into the DZ.. Mike will get back to me


Remember you really ARE posting on a skydiving website.. and you will find a disproportionate amount of people here who DO actually jump. I would like to invite all the others who are doing the BAR TALK... to come make a jump. If they are gettin all macho and trying to talk the talk... its time to come JUMP the JUMP.

[snowmman 3]

Amazon, it's always the same old thing.

I don't even remember how we started talking about the woods again. But we start with claims about how Cooper could or couldn't walk out (remember I'm in the camp of him landing in the water right now)..then it rapidly progresses into chest beating (it's such a man thing)...then if the other person isn't intimidated, the ante has to be up and up'ed..because the base skydiving thing isn't that bad, execution wise (if you're not worried about the fear-managing part).


So we get to the "jump naked in a snowstorm with a 50 lb weight from a cessna flying upside down"...and everyone claiming they're the only one in the world who have managed to conquer fear or manage an adrenalin rush.

I never (well, historically, never) attack your guy's sport. I'm talking about Cooper.

Somehow, you guys have unhealthily wrapped whuffo beliefs into your sport.

You know, from the outside in, when you guys have deaths, it sure looks like some percentage of it comes from your fucked up minds about the whole sport.

It's like you guys need a certain percentage of deaths, to justify your little chest thumping. It's weird.

[377 22]

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My take is that skydiving is mostly about bar talk.

Nahhh. Bars are too expensive. Onsite DZ drinking after the last jump leaves more money for jumping. Why pay $6 for one beer at a bar when that amount will get you six beers at a DZ?

Like all extreme sports including yours Snow, it's mostly about drinking, drugs, boasting and trying to score on newbies, but come the next morning you have to put all that on hold, suit up and actually jump.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Amazon 7]

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Amazon, it's always the same old thing.

I don't even remember how we started talking about the woods again. But we start with claims about how Cooper could or couldn't walk out (remember I'm in the camp of him landing in the water right now)..then it rapidly progresses into chest beating (it's such a man thing)...then if the other person isn't intimidated, the ante has to be up and up'ed..because the base skydiving thing isn't that bad, execution wise (if you're not worried about the fear-managing part).


So we get to the "jump naked in a snowstorm with a 50 lb weight from a cessna flying upside down"...and everyone claiming they're the only one in the world who have managed to conquer fear or manage an adrenalin rush.

I never (well, historically, never) attack your guy's sport. I'm talking about Cooper.

Somehow, you guys have unhealthily wrapped whuffo beliefs into your sport.

You know, from the outside in, when you guys have deaths, it sure looks like some percentage of it comes from your fucked up minds about the whole sport.

It's like you guys need a certain percentage of deaths, to justify your little chest thumping. It's weird.

There are a LOT of misconceptions in that post. When we have deaths.. most of the time its because somebody did not execute properly on some aspect of keeoping their asses alive. Most deaths now are landing incidents where experienced jumpers do stupid shit.. and always the ground does not give a rats ass how many jumps you have when you hit it at too high a speed.

AS far as chest beating.. OWEEEE. in my case.. that just hurts.

[snowmman 3]

yeah I can see that.

Orange1 is like the only person that made jumping sound like it makes sense. She talked about the fun feeling of flying.

And I can see the social thing. It's fun talking about the big cool thing you just did with a bunch of friends.

And you have a lot of variation. So there's always something new to try, new gear etc. It's always changing.

But doesn't all these guys who want it to just be a exhibition of manhood, kind of take away from it? Doesn't it make you wonder if you're getting sucked into that thinking?

I have no problem with dying.. But the worst feeling must be just before dying, realizing that maybe you did something for this chest-beating reason only.

I just read a thing where a jumper got injured and he was questioning his motivations, in terms of returning.

I think for anything with high rate of injury, you gotta be sure that it's worth the risk, before you get injured. (actually I think you have to convince yourself that you've got everything under control and it can't happen to you..but that's about managing, i.e. avoiding, self deception).

So when I see all this chest thumping talk, I think "Okay, there's nothing to be learned skill wise from that..it's probably part of the self-deception that should be avoided"

[Amazon 7]

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My take is that skydiving is mostly about bar talk.

Nahhh. Bars are too expensive. Onsite DZ drinking after the last jump leaves more money for jumping. Why pay $6 for one beer at a bar when that amount will get you six beers at a DZ?

Like all extreme sports including yours Snow, it's mostly about drinking, drugs, boasting and trying to score on newbies, but come the next morning you have to put all that on hold, suit up and actually jump.

377

Do you want to get in on this shindig???? I am not going to suggest we huck him in winter when there is low cieling.... I am thinkin spring.... maybe AFF ... I will do the video

[snowmman 3]

Amazon said "When we have deaths.. most of the time its because somebody did not execute properly on some aspect of keeoping their asses alive."

Yes I may be wrong. Remember my only exposure has been this thread. So I say what I think, if I'm wrong, people correct it. Nice thing about the internet..one can learn from people you normally wouldn't come into contact with.

But you threw out swooping on your DZ mention (see your post)

Why the fuck did you mention swooping? See my point? You do it without even realizing.

So you're saying the only problem with swooping deaths is people didn't execute properly?

(edit) The other thing I believe exists, is that the social behavior leads to people not talking about stuff directly, which also causes deaths...i.e. all this bullshit stuff you guys drum on about, causes people to lose focus on the nuts and bolts..i.e. think it's about balls, as opposed to just getting the canopy open and landing on the ground.

[Amazon 7]

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Amazon said "When we have deaths.. most of the time its because somebody did not execute properly on some aspect of keeoping their asses alive."

Yes I may be wrong. Remember my only exposure has been this thread. So I say what I think, if I'm wrong, people correct it. Nice thing about the internet..one can learn from people you normally wouldn't come into contact with.

But you threw out swooping on your DZ mention (see your post)

Why the fuck did you mention swooping? See my point? You do it without even realizing.

So you're saying the only problem with swooping deaths is people didn't execute properly?

Yup.. usually... doing a swoop over water.... headed for that fine little beach there at Lake Merwin.... did I mention a poorly executed swoop over water beats the shit out of one done over VERY hard dirt.
Its something an experienced jumper might do there... just because its there. when done right.. its hella fun....

AS a student jumper... trust me they will NOT put you anywhere near water.. or on a canopy that is going to hurt you.

Did I mention I have a LOT of water landings... rounds and squares... I prefer the big splash ANYDAY... over a big THUD.

There are MANY disciplines in this sport.. I have done most.. some I am better at than others..

Being old and decrepit.. I prefer nice soft landings.. although I am not adverse to speeding up a landing for a nice turf surf on occasion when the conditions are right

[snowmman 3]

Hi Amazon,

Like I said, I'm sure you're all that, and congratulations.

But in terms of instructing, it sounds like you need some introspection about swooping, if you're instructing beginners.

I wouldn't want you as an instructor. I suppose others might.

[Amazon 7]

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Hi Amazon,

Like I said, I'm sure you're all that, and congratulations.

But in terms of instructing, it sounds like you need some introspection about swooping, if you're instructing beginners.

I wouldn't want you as an instructor. I suppose others might.

Nope.. I go to the DZ to have fun.. to fly.... to relieve the stress of work..... I do NOT go there to WORK( ie teaching classes)

To me its about having fun in the sky... and spending all weekend teaching.... nah.. I will jump with newbies once they are off student status.. and pass along knowledge.. but a steady diet of it... NOPE... not happenin.

AS far as newbs swoopin.... there are others far mor qualified to teach canopy control... and progression. I will and have told more than one that they need to slow down and learn from those who are really into it.

I know plenty of people with instructional ratings that will be happy to teach you to be safe... me... I will just be right over there... with the camera helmet I like to watch...

[377 22]

Amazon wrote:

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Do you want to get in on this shindig???? I am not going to suggest we huck him in winter when there is low cieling..

We have to do it in Winter otherwise it's too easy.

As I get older (just turned 60) I keep notching down the skydiving risk. I still do belly RW and jumped recently in gusty 20 knot winds, but I never swoop, fly a big Triathlon 190 and land like a 747. When I am 70 I'll set my wind limits a lot lower, probably fly a 210 and eventually will stop doing RW. Just by not swooping I am lowering my risk of jump death by 60 pct. 100 pct would mean stopping jumping which will come someday but hopefully after I reach 80. I jumped with a 78 year old at WFFC and he was better than me.

If Snow is going to be tossed from a plane I am going to treat him to some tunnel time first.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Amazon 7]

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Amazon wrote:

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Do you want to get in on this shindig???? I am not going to suggest we huck him in winter when there is low cieling..

We have to do it in Winter otherwise it's too easy.

As I get older (just turned 60) I keep notching down the skydiving risk. I still do belly RW and jumped recently in gusty 20 knot winds, but I never swoop, fly a big Triathlon 190 and land like a 747. When I am 70 I'll set my wind limits a lot lower, probably fly a 210 and eventually will stop doing RW. Just by not swooping I am lowering my risk of jump death by 60 pct. 100 pct would mean stopping jumping which will come someday but hopefully after I reach 80. I jumped with a 78 year old at WFFC and he was better than me.

If Snow is going to be tossed from a plane I am going to treat him to some tunnel time first.

377

I see you are from the Bay area.. I have done Holister. a few jumps.. hated the van ride thing back to the airport.. been to Davis but did not jump there.. same with Lodi... everytime I have been there it was windy or too late in the day...

SOOO I go to Byron. I guess I have about 50 or so jumps there with friends..... windy ass place.... I guess if they turned off all those fans over on the hills to the west it would be calmer. Its a good thing I have a canopy I load about 1.7 to one... plenty of speed to land in those winds. Byron was the first place I ever heard the term "hook it for safety". It is also the place where I told several of the kids.. that my D lisence number was low enough that I KNOPW when its time to sit it out and watch those who ARE jumping in those winds.. My cutoff is at about 20 to 25 there , But I have seen the regulars there jumping into the 30MPH plus range.. nope.. not me.

[JerryThomas 0]

377 I'm to young to be Cooper. The truth about the helo! is my cousin own's one.So I don't have to rent one.As far as, would I have survived that jump. Even with my training, it would have been tough I would not have attempted it to begin with. Not in that area. The terain is just to rough. Forest is to dense. The floor is to rocky a lot of volcanic rock pile's and cliff's most of the time the only way you can travel is down the center of a creek.Just ask Geof Gray. Im sure he'll back me up. Ther is not one person I have taken into that enviroment, that once they have walked a short distance in that terain that believe's Cooper could have survived that jump. You can contact a couple of them if you like there easy to find. Here's two names they both work for the seatle times One is Richard Seven The other is Susan Gilmore. I have plenty more names. Your right about the turkey and Im wondering if your daughter and my wife mite be related they sure seem to think alike. LoL .Jerry

[snowmman 3]

Hey! I just realized. I'm the dumbass here.

So that means: Cooper jumped in the woods and died.

How was it again that we know he jumped in the woods? I forgot.

[Amazon 7]

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377 I'm to young to be Cooper. The truth about the helo! is my cousin own's one.So I don't have to rent one.As far as, would I have survived that jump. Even with my training, it would have been tough I would not have attempted it to begin with. Not in that area. The terain is just to rough. Forest is to dense. The floor is to rocky a lot of volcanic rock pile's and cliff's most of the time the only way you can travel is down the center of a creek.Just ask Geof Gray. Im sure he'll back me up. Ther is not one person I have taken into that enviroment, that once they have walked a short distance in that terain that believe's Cooper could have survived that jump. You can contact a couple of them if you like there easy to find. Here's two names they both work for the seatle times One is Richard Seven The other is Susan Gilmore. I have plenty more names. Your right about the turkey and Im wondering if your daughter and my wife mite be related they sure seem to think alike. LoL .Jerry

Oh come on.. tree landings under a round are just not that hard to do...even in the dark. If we are talking the Indian Heaven area.... there are still trees as they were back then... otherwise most of the freakin area was being clear cut at the time. I have walked hundreds of miles thru that area.. climbed Mt St Helens and Mt Adams numerous times including from the Killian Creek\North Cleaver route.

I used to hunt elk on the south side of Swift Resevoir and south in the Star Peak area. I dont know if I would want to drag a couple of desk driving journalists into the area.. but someone with training.. and the WILL to pull it off... not that hard.

[JerryThomas 0]

Amazon that wasn't in 1971. and it wasn't you jumping from that plane even you have better sense that to have jumped in those weather conditions. Hell He probably didn't even know how to deploy the chute. It was modified and not user friendly . The guy didn't have the experience necessary to even dress properly. If you been all over this terain you and I need to hook up I'll take you to some of the old mines Show you the old Indian cave's and trails they used to use.Jerry

[377 22]

Amazon wrote:

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Its a good thing I have a canopy I load about 1.7 to one

That number is a bit sporty for me. I like 1.2-1.3 lbs/sq ft wing loading, enough forward drive to jump at Byron in the afternoon but not something that I have to worry about on a calm day. I watched Luigi Cani land a 38 sq ft canopy at WFFC. I was actually scared just watching it.

My last jump was in October at Byron, windy as usual, but hey, jump tix were only $17, way cheaper than the 60s if you account for inflation.

Bill Dause (Lodi DZO) is having some FAA hassles arising from a gear collapse on a King Air. He was suspected by many local jumpers to be DBC but the height doesnt match and Bill would have taken the ParaCommander for sure. I have jumped at Lodi (tix were $15!), but now Byron is cheaper if you count driving expenses. Monterey took me to 18K for $26 a few months ago, really nice ocean views.

Hooking it is really fun but adds so much to the risk that I just do not do it. Too many jumpers waaaaay more skilled than I am have died hooking it. The way I see it, if you need a hook to land safely you need to lower your wind limits.

Having landed under a reserve twice (26 foot $25 Navy surplus conical and a $960 PD 193R square) I think about my reserve's ability to handle winds when I jump. I also think about landing waaay out in an area surrounded by tall trees or buildings. That's a lot easier at 1.2 than at 1.7.

I always wondered about having a DZ next to a wind farm, I mean you KNOW its gonna be windy, but I guess the rent is cheap. Byron has a good vibe and its the closest DZ to home.

I am really in a quandry because I respect Snow's opinions and ability and Jerry's too. They cant both be right however. Jerry has trudged the suspected LZ area and that does count for something. If he says he doubts that he could have survived the Cooper jump I have to give that some credence.

Snow says Jerry is full of it and Jerry just says come up here and I'll show you first hand why you are wrong. This will be a fascinating showdown if it happens. Snow is literally betting his life that he is right.

Maybe we should have Snow jump in a neoprene survival suit so he can survive a cold water landing, but he has to shed it immediately if he lands on terra firma. I like Snow. I don't want to see him hurt or killed proving a point. I have a survival suit, a LPU, a 121.5 MHz rescue beacon and an APRS position and physio telemetry beacon that I can loan Snow.

I also have an unmodified zero jump C9 canopy on risers, but no suitable container. Amazon could probably hook it up to some of her gear. I still wonder about Cooper's opening shock with an unsleeved C9 in a high speed exit. Those Air America 727 jump videos showed "canopy squidding" that acted as a natural opening decelerator. Maybe that happened to Cooper.

Step right up, the show is about to begin. Jerry even has a helo connection.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

okay, I've never walked naked in the woods (that I can remember?) , so I went for a hike in steep mid-dense woods with no pants or shoes on.

The ground was steepish. (50 degrees in places?) Wet from recent rains. I slipped on wet clay/mud a little till I got the hang of using toes. Tree canopy was 100' or more. Contrary to my expectations, there was no worry about puncture injuries on my soles. Normal branches, sticks etc from tree litter on the ground (no trail). I could navigate steep terrain pretty easily by digging my toes into the duff. It actually felt pretty cool..like going native.

My legs weren't cold. Picture a stiff hike in shorts. (edit) Looks like temps were in the mid to low 40's.

But, the wet ground does chill your feet pretty quickly. I could stop and warm them with my hands, which worked fine, but you'd really need a covering to make any significant progress. You can actually walk fine as your feet go numb, but you stop because you know it's bad. (but little toes are still numb as I type this. My circulation isn't as good as in younger years, I think?)

Like you'd have to tear up some clothes to bind your feet. i.e. better to keep your feet warm than elsewhere.

So, I'd have to play the "ankle boot" description card. Cooper was described as wearing ankle boots. (I'm assuming "ankle" boots would be the only way to guarantee shoes on the ground?)

I think the barefoot requirement is too extreme. Well, basically it's pretty predictable results, so why bother?

I'm not sure which we're more interested in proving out: the forest navigation from semi-unknown point thing, the barefoot thing, or whether I have enough balls to jump from a Cessna like a couple thousand random yahoos off the street with a couple hundred bucks do every year.

(edit) I've walked in pretty thick wood with sandals. So the real issue is just a barrier between you and the wet ground. Not traction.

(edit) I took some pictures of my feet, in the duff, if interested, but it was getting dark.

[snowmman 3]

Amazon pointed out

Quote

I used to hunt elk on the south side of Swift Resevoir and south in the Star Peak area. I dont know if I would want to drag a couple of desk driving journalists into the area.. but someone with training.. and the WILL to pull it off... not that hard.

Amazon: the thing I don't understand about what Jerrry says: He takes journalists and walks to an area. He points to stuff. He says "Cooper couldn't escape from here". Then they walk out.

How does that add up?

(edit) I've also never seen "woods", no matter how dense, that doesn't have some sort of game trail somewhere, or opening..i.e. if animals can get thru somehow, humans can.

Unless we're talking like traversing across the grand canyon?

(edit) 377 said: "Maybe we should have Snow jump in a neoprene survival suit so he can survive a cold water landing, but he has to shed it immediately if he lands on terra firma. I like Snow. I don't want to see him hurt or killed proving a point. I have a survival suit, a LPU, a 121.5 MHz rescue beacon and an APRS position and physio telemetry beacon that I can loan Snow. "

377, assuming one doesn't land in water, and you are well hydrated and fed, a thin one piece gortex suit is almost like a survival suit. It's amazing how little insulation you need if your body is burning calories cause you're moving.

See that's why the clothing issue is critical. I'd cheat and get a raincoat or whatever with a hidden layer of goretex, unless you caught me.

Remember, I have no honor here in the game. Cheat to win.