DB Cooper

[Amazon 7]

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Amazon that wasn't in 1971. and it wasn't you jumping from that plane even you have better sense that to have jumped in those weather conditions. Hell He probably didn't even know how to deploy the chute. It was modified and not user friendly . The guy didn't have the experience necessary to even dress properly. If you been all over this terain you and I need to hook up I'll take you to some of the old mines Show you the old Indian cave's and trails they used to use.Jerry

Ok we can do that.. but what we really need to do is get all the LEG off of you. A lot of that area is already pretty big second growth and it WAS already cut in 1972 when I got there. Weyerhauser cut the shit out of that area for years since it was fairly close to Longviewand their big facility there. And.. lets not forget about Longview Fibre... and all the others in the area. !0,000 ft... night.. even in the 40's.. although with the altitude it would have been a bit chillier. If DBC had any training at all I am sure he could have exited just fine.... freefall to a lower altitude.. and then deployed. Come on.. let me show you how its done. My first rig I bought was one of those old military rigs that had been sportereized.. and it had this really high performance Papillion for a main. I had a C-9 in a belly reserve that I had to use on my 5th jump because I sucked at packing the Papillion and those funky steering lines.

I think you need to join the same class at Skydive Toledo with Snow.... I wonder if any of the other wuffo detractors who say it cant be done..... to man up and come jump.

[snowmman 3]

I happened to find this, which was news to me.
We debated whether the placard came from flight 305.

This news article quotes a Cowlitz County Sheriff as saying they knew two days after the hijack, that flight 305's placard was missing. That's what is news to me. We never had confirmation of that?

(edit) Surprisingly, the FBI says the area where the placard was found was searched twice beforehand, by the FBI and no further searches were planned. I didn't realize they searched up there. Maybe just by plane? (edit) note it shows how the FBI searches really couldn't find anything small, since they missed it.


I'm not sure this gives us any new info. The timeline suggests the airstairs may have been down before 8:05 (if that's where the plane was when the placard was found)

It's hard to believe the stairs stayed down in the airflow, so I guess we've debated this before, but it got me thinking the idea of Cooper walking the stair multiple times may have been true.
(assuming you need full open stairs to get the airflow to grab the placard out of it's holder?)

Oh since I'm here. a couple other clips.
One, a detailed description of the Rainey "pilot chute" find, with a better picture. (dismissed by Cossey).

Also, a tragic, fall in water, recovered after hours in water, fall in water again, and not found? (apparent owner of a ship). 377 will identify with the tragedy of this one.


I doubt Jerry will say to jump at the placard location, unless he has a new money travel theory.
My understanding is Cooper jumped in the Washougal because that's the only way the money could have arrived on Tena Bar.

And since the Washougal is inpenetrable, Cooper couldn't escape.

And because of those two things, that's how we know Flight 305 flew over the Washougal. (independent of any other information)

(edit) Did I post the thing about the 727 pilot flying Arrow Air when a 727 airstair deployed in flight (they had to go down to 10k feet, open the rear door and tie a lever up to land, to avoid the airstair dropping and getting damaged on landing). He talked about initial airframe vibration, then that went away. But still the climb rate was limited, and increased fuel burn (they had to change their landing plans).

[snowmman 3]

Okay, I'm reviewing maps to plan my way out.

I'm assuming the jump is going to be somewhat close to Flight 305's flight path?

If so, it appears that my safest bet, assuming I don't know where I am, but that I know it's somewhere between the placard find and Vancouver, is to always just go W, no matter what.

It looks to me like that is a max of 12 miles to go.

Assuming it's really dense, but water is probably not a problem in Fall conditions, let's say I can go 6 miles a day.

So two days travel. Assuming we jump at night, that's two overnights.

Will have to keep an eye out for food and water. The 2nd night might be a little grim.

Once I hit I-5, it's no problem hitching a ride.

So we're just talking 12 miles of overland travel.

Am I wrong on the plan yet?

12 miles is possible in a long day sure, but not good to plan on that.

I'm assuming I can hide a compass in my pocket? And I don't have limitations on matches right? (cooper=smoker). What about the flares? Do I get to keep them? I think so?

If we agree the jump is between Lake Merwin and Vancouver, it'll probably be easier to sight for the Lewis River, Lake Merwin or something like that.

I suppose it should be easy to see Mt. St. Helens, so I'll be able to make some dynamic decisions about where I probably am.

I'm trying to limit how much map memorization i need to do?

Or: Can I keep a map in my pocket? My memory isn't so great anymore, and I think that fits within Cooper-legal? (if it fits in my pocket). If you say no, I'll just hide a small one.

[Amazon 7]

If you head west anywhere to the west of Silver Star Peak you will hit roads all over the freakin place in no time at all. The mouth of the Lewis River is down stream of the Tena Bar by quite a ways so the geology and hydrology of that just does not work .

I think Jerry is of the EAST of Silver Star in the Washougal River Basin kinda guy... but heading west in that area will have you going uphill in a big hurry... For the money to end up on Tena Bar it probably had to be east of the mountain. but MAN that ia a LONG way farther south and a whole lot east than where the placard was found.. north of Ariel.

Just look at a sat photo of the entire area... there are clear cuts all over the area and all of the area he is talking about has plenty of roads. Many of what were clearcuts back in the 70's are now being harvested for the third time.

[snowmman 3]

I'm assuming any borrowed gear I get, I don't have to return.

I may leave some behind or take some with me. Unless it's summer, I'll likely take the chute or some portion of it to stay dry at night or during heavy rain. I'll probably cut the lines.

The harness will probably get dumped.

I'm assuming you guys will give me a rig that's sized to fit me correctly? Like I said, I'm tall.

(I know this is a combination of testing my initial "getting out" statement and "do I have balls enough to post on a DBC thread at DZ.com with a bunch of old fat farts". So you get to decide I guess)

I get a knife because DBC had one. (right? We all agree he cut the lines on the plane with a knife?)

If you want to give me Raleighs for effect, that would be cool. I'm picturing crawling into a ride on I-5, and when they ask for my story, launching into a description of how I jumped out of a plane I hijacked, two days ago, and here's $500 if you get me to a Starbucks in Portland so I can post to DZ.com and win the charms of a certain South African lass.

[Amazon 7]

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I'm assuming any borrowed gear I get, I don't have to return. heck I just want you to nake a training jump with modern gear.. so that belongs to the DZ

I may leave some behind or take some with me. Unless it's summer, I'll likely take the chute or some portion of it to stay dry at night or during heavy rain. I'll probably cut the lines. I would bet thta DBC also used the canopy.. I would.. I have cut up hundreds of them to improvise clothing...sleeping bags...shelter...sling chairs( hey gotta get comfy)

The harness will probably get dumped. you can improvise belts... shoes....a tumpline.. all kinds of goodies. The parapack material is heavy nylon some of it VERY heavy so your feet would like that if Jerry goes for the whole shoeless Snowmman thing

I'm assuming you guys will give me a rig that's sized to fit me correctly? Like I said, I'm tall. Uh.. I am over 6' tall I would think it would fit you

(I know this is a combination of testing my initial "getting out" statement and "do I have balls enough to post on a DBC thread at DZ.com with a bunch of old fat farts". So you get to decide I guess)

I get a knife because DBC had one. (right? We all agree he cut the lines on the plane with a knife?) Be rude not to

If you want to give me Raleighs for effect, that would be cool. I'm picturing crawling into a ride on I-5, and when they ask for my story, launching into a description of how I jumped out of a plane I hijacked, two days ago, and here's $500 if you get me to a Starbucks in Portland so I can post to DZ.com and win the charms of a certain South African lass.

Now we just need to get Jerry to join in on the jumpin fun.... anyone else???

[snowmman 3]

amazon said "The mouth of the Lewis River is down stream of the Tena Bar by quite a ways so the geology and hydrology of that just does not work ."


That doesn't fucking matter. I think Cooper landed in the Columbia.

This is about whether Jerry is a dumbass like I said, and apparently you guys deciding whether I have balls enough to post here.

If you can dig up any evidence other than what we have, that suggests a legitimate alternate flight path, I guess that's on the table, but we'd have to discuss it for probability or just bullshit random guessing?

[Amazon 7]

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amazon said "The mouth of the Lewis River is down stream of the Tena Bar by quite a ways so the geology and hydrology of that just does not work ."


That doesn't fucking matter. I think Cooper landed in the Columbia.

This is about whether Jerry is a dumbass like I said, and apparently you guys deciding whether I have balls enough to post here.

If you can dig up any evidence other than what we have, that suggests a legitimate alternate flight path, I guess that's on the table, but we'd have to discuss it for probability or just bullshit random guessing?

One of the KOIN segments on DBC over on youtube.com said the pilot thinks his flight path was farther east....ok I can live with that.. that is one of the reasons I brought up the Indian Heaven region between Mt St Helens.. and Mt Adams . If the plane was en route to Reno.. it would have been farther east. I dont buy his landing in the Columbia River.. there is WAY too much activity on a daily basis... and a night water landing in it.. without flotation gear and anti-exposure suit would have made for a very bloated body being washed up along the river within a few days. I think he landed in the trees. and with a round canopy evne a modified one. easliy done... or in a clear cut... also easily done.

[snowmman 3]

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amazon said "The mouth of the Lewis River is down stream of the Tena Bar by quite a ways so the geology and hydrology of that just does not work ."


That doesn't fucking matter. I think Cooper landed in the Columbia.

This is about whether Jerry is a dumbass like I said, and apparently you guys deciding whether I have balls enough to post here.

If you can dig up any evidence other than what we have, that suggests a legitimate alternate flight path, I guess that's on the table, but we'd have to discuss it for probability or just bullshit random guessing?

One of the KOIN segments on DBC over on youtube.com said the pilot thinks his flight path was farther east....ok I can live with that.. that is one of the reasons I brought up the Indian Heaven region between Mt St Helens.. and Mt Adams . If the plane was en route to Reno.. it would have been farther east. I dont buy his landing in the Columbia River.. there is WAY too much activity on a daily basis... and a night water landing in it.. without flotation gear and anti-exposure suit would have made for a very bloated body being washed up along the river within a few days. I think he landed in the trees. and with a round canopy evne a modified one. easliy done... or in a clear cut... also easily done.

yeah, you've missed the whole flight path discussion. We've gone over that a lot. I'll leave it to others to explain what they think is a reasonable flight path zone and why (and how it correlates with all available info or not)

You should get an overlay (kml) in google earth to look at the flight path. Sluggo has it. I can post it if he doesn't.

(edit) I attached a kml that is from Sluggo's work. it has the v23 and the probable 305 flight path from radar with times (there is a potential minute error issue). The money find is located there also.

(for amazon since he's not seen this before..)

It sounds like you have google earth on your pc. Just open the 305.kml and zoom in. (the blue line is flight path. green is v23. they look intermittent because I put them at low altitude, so they cut thru land sometimes. I was trying flybys in GE or something.

[skyjack71 0]

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Okay, I'm reviewing maps to plan my way out.

I'm assuming the jump is going to be somewhat close to Flight 305's flight path?

If so, it appears that my safest bet, assuming I don't know where I am, but that I know it's somewhere between the placard find and Vancouver, is to always just go W, no matter what.

If you are going West - where the hell will you be jumping?

walk the areas I have marked on a map. I promise you will survive and feel great about it. Regardless of how difficult JT claims it is - It is virtually impossible for Cooper to have landed East of the Washougal.

In fact I will put you even closer in - just above and West of Camp Bonneville. I will map the rivers, creeks and tributaries, plus how show you where there will be shelter - I can't put the tower back in the woods nor can I take out all of the new development nor can I assure you that other such structures once there still exist but, I would try it myself if I didn't have this bad knee and hip and I was a few yrs younger.

I have only skimmed the posts and again you guys have let yourselves be convinced Cooper landed in the Washougal area. NO WAY - the path of the plane would have to been seriously altered to do that. I can see being off some due to weather, but to be totally out of the Vextor - no way -there were too many people tracking that plane.

I agree the LD could have been a little more east than what we have been told, but NOT into the forest above the Washougal or East of the Washougal....just didn't happen. Jerry gets his kicks out of declaring Cooper died by taking them into an area that is off the charts (per the vector and wind drifts) - that is just NOT how it was. He has NO documented proof the plane was that FAR EAST.

One thing you guys need to do is obtain a copy of the all famous Palmer report on that money - make the FBI provide it. That Palmer report needs to be made a part of the FIOA...don't take anyones word for what it say -demand to see it.

Sluggo - has anyone ever read the Palmer report in detail or is everyone going by what the FBI says?

WHY is that Palmer report not part of the FIOA? WHY?

Ok, I let you guys go on and on and stayed quiet like a good little girl, but I am here. Sure can learn a lot of things by listening and watch how easily a bunch of guys can get suckered into a niche.

I have one last thought regarding the last 3 pages of posts: I have seen many credentials posted by a specific individual, but can he prove them...the positions, places, responsiblities, duties, rank and yrs? Alway know your opponent and know him well.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 244]

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amazon said "The mouth of the Lewis River is down stream of the Tena Bar by quite a ways so the geology and hydrology of that just does not work ."


That doesn't fucking matter. I think Cooper landed in the Columbia.

This is about whether Jerry is a dumbass like I said, and apparently you guys deciding whether I have balls enough to post here.

If you can dig up any evidence other than what we have, that suggests a legitimate alternate flight path, I guess that's on the table, but we'd have to discuss it for probability or just bullshit random guessing?

The Bohan flight path, winds at 166* on my nose ?
4 mins behind and 4000ft above #305.
?????

[Amazon 7]

Jo.. I think you need to come show Jerry you have some bronze ovaries.. and make a jump with us

I could even take you for a trip around the area.. I do have a nice big diesel 4x4 and I do know the roads up in that area pretty good.

Come on out for a visit...

[georger 244]

that is one of the reasons I brought up the Indian Heaven region between Mt St Helens.. and Mt Adams . If the plane was en route to Reno.. it would have been farther east. I dont buy his landing in the Columbia River.. there is WAY too much activity on a daily basis... and a night water landing in it.. without flotation gear and anti-exposure suit would have made for a very bloated body being washed up along the river within a few days. I think he landed in the trees. and with a round canopy evne a modified one. easliy done... or in a clear cut... also easily done.

[snowmman 3]

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that is one of the reasons I brought up the Indian Heaven region between Mt St Helens.. and Mt Adams . If the plane was en route to Reno.. it would have been farther east. I dont buy his landing in the Columbia River.. there is WAY too much activity on a daily basis... and a night water landing in it.. without flotation gear and anti-exposure suit would have made for a very bloated body being washed up along the river within a few days. I think he landed in the trees. and with a round canopy evne a modified one. easliy done... or in a clear cut... also easily done.

that isnt far off Jerry's estimate either, I think. Jerry? Remember your last search area? Vector NE from there?? So long as we
wind up coming in over Troutdale (Jerry's requirement). Is this possible?

[snowmman 3]

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Jo.. I think you need to come show Jerry you have some bronze ovaries.. and make a jump with us

I could even take you for a trip around the area.. I do have a nice big diesel 4x4 and I do know the roads up in that area pretty good.

Come on out for a visit...

Amazon. You don't want to invite Jo anywhere. If you need to invite, invite Orange1.

[snowmman 3]

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amazon said "The mouth of the Lewis River is down stream of the Tena Bar by quite a ways so the geology and hydrology of that just does not work ."


That doesn't fucking matter. I think Cooper landed in the Columbia.

This is about whether Jerry is a dumbass like I said, and apparently you guys deciding whether I have balls enough to post here.

If you can dig up any evidence other than what we have, that suggests a legitimate alternate flight path, I guess that's on the table, but we'd have to discuss it for probability or just bullshit random guessing?

The Bohan flight path, winds at 166* on my nose ?
4 mins behind and 4000ft above #305.
?????

draw it on a google earth snapshot (or google maps).... you can photoshop. Put some rough times for spots.

The problem has been aligning to stuff happening in the comms in the transcripts right?
If you can show a scenario that makes sense, sure..

the problem is: Himmelsbach never bothered with this level of detail. He just spouted (like Jerry)

[Amazon 7]

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that is one of the reasons I brought up the Indian Heaven region between Mt St Helens.. and Mt Adams . If the plane was en route to Reno.. it would have been farther east. I dont buy his landing in the Columbia River.. there is WAY too much activity on a daily basis... and a night water landing in it.. without flotation gear and anti-exposure suit would have made for a very bloated body being washed up along the river within a few days. I think he landed in the trees. and with a round canopy evne a modified one. easliy done... or in a clear cut... also easily done.

that isnt far off Jerry's estimate either, I think. Jerry? Remember your last search area? Vector NE from there?? So long as we
wind up coming in over Troutdale (Jerry's requirement). Is this possible?

If someone draws a flight path that shows the plane's potential path going over Troutdale and show how it gets back onto V23 and when, then we can discuss,

The problem is this Troutdale stuff is bullshit. No one has drawn a potential flight path so we can all agree on whether it makes any sense.

Jerry won't draw a flight path because it's bullshit.

Might as well jump in Texas.

(edit) Or: Is the goal to see if anyone can jump near Troutdale and survive?

[Amazon 7]

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Jo.. I think you need to come show Jerry you have some bronze ovaries.. and make a jump with us

I could even take you for a trip around the area.. I do have a nice big diesel 4x4 and I do know the roads up in that area pretty good.

Come on out for a visit...

Amazon. You don't want to invite Jo anywhere. If you need to invite, invite Orange1.

Heck lets get everyone there for jumps.. Jo can do a tandem at Toledo...while you and Jerry and georger can do AFF jumps...

[snowmman 3]

Hey amazon,
It's nice to have someone who actually has walked the woods there.
So far we've not had someone.

Jerry's been passing himself off as someone who's "walked the land" but he's walked like nowhere except some secret search spots around the washougal.

interesting you're an elk hunter like the guy who found the placard.
I knew there was elk like in Montana. Didn't realize there were any in WA. Do people still hunt elk there?

[Amazon 7]

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Hey amazon,
It's nice to have someone who actually has walked the woods there.
So far we've not had someone

Jerry's been passing himself off as someone who's "walked the land" but he's walked like nowhere except some secret search spots around the washougal.

interesting you're an elk hunter like the guy who found the placard.
I knew there was elk like in Montana. Didn't realize there were any in WA. Do people still hunt elk there?

Oh heck yeah... its kinda a short season.. but there are plenty of them up in that area.. I live way north of there now.. NE of Seattle.. and If I hunt in any given year now.. I go to the other side of the state.. I know that area very well too. That is where I did a LOT of walking compliments of the USAF. I prefer the colder dryer, snowier weather over there during the elk and late deer season... the forest is a bit more open... and you have elk and white tail deer as well as mule deer. Over on this side of the state we have the smaller blacktail deer but the elk are Roosevelt.. bigger than the Rocky Mtn elk on the east side of the state.

[georger 244]

I agree the LD could have been a little more east than what we have been told, but NOT into the forest above the Washougal or East of the Washougal....just didn't happen. Jerry gets his kicks out of declaring Cooper died by taking them into an area that is off the charts (per the vector and wind drifts) - that is just NOT how it was. He has NO documented proof the plane was that FAR EAST.

One thing you guys need to do is obtain a copy of the all famous Palmer report on that money - make the FBI provide it. That Palmer report needs to be made a part of the FIOA...don't take anyones word for what it say -demand to see it.

[snowmman 3]

Why didn't the guy who found the placard die when he went into the death woods?


I guess he had a truck, but that would mean there was a road, minimally dirt.

I guess he walked some distance. How far do elk hunters walk?
My understanding is they usually make it back to a camp by night, and the camp is near where they can park a truck.

So how many miles out do the elk hunters walk from their trucks?

Why do they survive? Is it the boots? In November what kind of clothing would you wear if were walking a couple miles in the woods?

What happens to an elk hunter if he breaks a shoelace on his boots? Or if he falls and hurts his leg? Does he die? Do elk hunters ever make it back alive after injury in the death woods or do they commit suicide or do rescue parties find them?

[Amazon 7]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


The trick is to scout the herds BEFORE opening of the season...or know where the herds are going to run to when all the idiots start sighting in their rifles on opening morning.

This side of the state.. WAY too many idiots that dont know WTF they are doing in the woods. If he would have jumped a week earlier The elk season would have been open with alll kinds of people all over the roads.. he might have gotten shot by some of the fools out there.

[snowmman 3]

I always feel nervous when I run into hunters in the woods.
I know sometimes I'm in areas that are stupid to be in, because you can hear shooting, and I'll have my dogs.

It's always odd when you surprise someone, because they look surprised you're not a deer..then you realize you're lucky you didn't get shot, or you dogs get shot..and then when you see he's a bit of a city slicker with new gear, you feel really lucky...and what do you say when you're in the middle of the woods and the other guy has a weapon and maybe almost shot you? Hi? Bye?

Let's see
I remember running into a kid laying behind a log one time. He was poaching deer out of season. Awkward.

Another time my dogs were barking ahead of me on the trail behind a cabin I had. I get up there, and a bow hunter's up on a stump. I'm like "what are you doing here" and he's like "what are you doing here? I thought this was a game trail" (i had cut a trail to walk the dogs)

And then there was the stupid time in Wyoming I was visiting and went to a park where they just had griz sightings and I was being really stupid with my dog and the trail petered out and I thought for sure every time my dog came running back he'd have a griz in pursuit. Someone shot a griz there that week saying it was around their camp or something. They got in trouble.

But then Alaska with their brown bear stories, like Jerry says. Never been where they roam, but reading some of the stories is scarier than I expected.

So yeah, I can be stupid in the woods.

(most states have laws letting hunters shoot dogs they say were running deer...So I always worry about that excuse)

[Amazon 7]

I usually feel very comfortable in the woods.. no matter where I am.
Hunting seasons I tend to go places few others go.
Not too many people actually get out and walk all that far.. thankfully most hunters ideas of getting ready for the deer season is buying 4 new tires for their truck. Elk season for rifle is later after the first deer season.. the weather is colder... more of the leaves on the trees and underbrush have fallen from the first fall storms. You have less spoilage of the meat though because it has natural refrigeration with the cool weather.The north side of Silver Star and that area to the east on both sides of the Lewis and its resevoirs have a good amount of wildlife.