DB Cooper

[Amazon 7]

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there were a few posts about macho bar talk etc while i was 'out' ... i don't think either Amazon nor I skydive to try prove we are macho

I think we need to get that ARMY LEG up in the air.. all that "wilderness" training but I think all of it is way to colored by someone afraid to leave the ground. Just because he could not survive the jump and experience.. he thinks no one else could. I have NEVER let the shortcomings of others stop me from trying to achieve what may be impossible for someone else.

[Amazon 7]

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sorry to rain on the testosterone parade, but i think you have no chance in hell to think for an instance the FAA is going to sign off on this LZ so you can make this jump. With that the words bandit jumps come to mind. No DZO is going to risk his plane or DZ to be apart of that. I would love to do it, but reality says no chance of a clearance from the FAA.

Hey.. not that hard to file for a waiver and NOTAM I think Mike at Toledo might actually help out... and make it all legal.

[Amazon 7]

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is Amazon a woman? is that what the name reference is! Woot!

DUH

It would really suck for Jerry if a girl can do this kinda thing and he can't.... that seems to have been the story of my life... surpassing others expectations and their own self imposed limitations.

[nigel99 476]

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This side of the state.. WAY too many idiots that dont know WTF they are doing in the woods. If he would have jumped a week earlier The elk season would have been open with alll kinds of people all over the roads.. he might have gotten shot by some of the fools out there.

Hey that's funny to ponder. We talked a bit about random possibilities of why 11/25.

No one mentioned a relation to hunting season. That would be really funny if he knew about that.

If he was the kind of person I think he is.. trust me.. he would have known that.

So the question to Jo is did Duane eat alot of Elk

Very interesting observation though possibly the only "new" idea in the last 10 000 posts (I refuse to back that up with research though).

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[snowmman 3]

I've never really paid attention to to all the logging/paper stuff.
It's interesting to me, because they were planning to log a parcel right next to my house, but people got up in arms and shut them down. Got me thinking about how little I know about logging.

I've done some reading. I liked stories I read about college kids going up to Canada for the summer and planting trees and how they got competitive with each other ..they get paid by the tree, and there's actually a lot of detail about what makes a plant hard or not.
You can imagine they get real focused about every little detail.

And then there are crews that go thru to thin out, with brushcutters. It's like another little niche culture. They talk about their tools with the detail of any other profession using the same tool day after day.

[snowmman 3]

Hey Amazon.
If you are a woman.
I do this thing with my dogs, and it's like mostly women there. All kinds of women. Kind of interesting.
I mean it's just dogs, so you don't expect much from the people.
And this one woman, she's on the PA, and getting everyone organized. Nothing special. And then someone mentions to me how she used to be a fighter pilot.

Really reinforces how easy it is to have a bias that's just way off base. (i.e. mine).

[georger 244]

White Buffalo Woman Pte Ska Win'tho T'tanka
said:

I believe the book is titled What Really Happened by Max Gunther. I have more cognitive knowledge of this crime than you have. You have been no more than a deterrent all of these yrs. The things you claimed I said to others (being media) and in this forum will come back to haunt you more than you are already haunted by the horrors you have buried in your mind from the past.

I can assure you that Duane Weber was involved in this crime and eventually it will be proven but without your help. Did I say involved? There are those who would say anything to you just to get you out of their hair. You believe whatever you want to believe or whatever makes you happy until the time comes. You think you are part of the Cooper story? All of the things you have said on this forum that are not true and that horrible phone call will be all they will remember - can you handle that?

Is that how you want your family to remember you - this man who goes to a forum and says these things to a woman whose husband it turns out really was involved in the hijacking. Well, as it stand right now that is how you will be remembered. You will NOT be part of the story and you will not be remembered or for that matter acknowledge.

You will be a bad memory for those involved in this part of the investigation. Maybe you will be remembered as a Screwed up Veteran who spent his life in the woods searching for Cooper's bones and who repeatedly called anyone who claimed to have any knowledge of the crime - a liar or a fiction writer. You will be remembered only for how badly you treated me and any untruths you have told and the grief you have caused. What you told about Duane's friend will NEVER beforgotten, nor the fact that my encounters with you were nothing but unpleasant. Can you handle that?

[snowmman 3]

okay, this is a little too personal, but it's worth sharing.

So I hook up with this guy I've never met and we go up to Canada to do a very hard route. It's very cold and we're all nervous, and failure possibility is high. We do a warmup thing and it goes okay and finally the big day comes and we leave at like 2 or 3AM for the long walk in, which is tough because you don't know if anyone else is going to be on the route until you walk in a couple miles. So we get there and there's like two people gearing up...

In the dark you can't make them out..just a mash of gear and goretex and headlamps. You really want to yell "what route are you doing"...but hell even in the middle of nowhere in the dark, you have to act casual, and let it trickle out.. Finally they say something and we realize it's two women. Fuck! two women beat us to our route, even though we left way early.

But it turns out they're going to do another route two over.

So we do our route. And we do get it done, although we never did anything together after that, and I left the trip early. So you can see it wasn't buddy buddy. But I remember in the tension of the whole thing, I'm looking over at the other team of two women, and they're in the same rough situation as us, and it's really cold...And the stronger woman is belaying the slightly less strong woman up, who's moving slow...and she's chattering (freezing, waiting for her partner to arrive with her coat) but encouraging her partner.

And I forget now what it was, I think one gave the other their coat, and I realized then that watching those two women, they were a vastly stronger team than us. (although we were on the slightly bigger ego route).

If I remember right, the one woman was the first US? woman to summit everest, I think it was.

Makes one reflect on oneself.

[georger 244]

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Jerry,

you keep talking about how Cooper was dressed. Why won't you answer my question i have asked you three times. Here it is to refresh your memory.

Jerry,

here's two questions for you. Can anyone say 100% confirmed with irrefutable evidence, no doubts not opinion as to what Cooper carried on the plane when he boarded? #2 what did he do in the extended time in the bathroom? did he have a bag of gear in the overhead he carried on? until these are answered you can not say 100% beyond a doubt what Cooper was wearing to survive or that he had loafers on and lost them. till these are 100% beyond a doubt answered you are connesting dots that are PRESUMED not know. The shoes were noted early on when he showed the bomb in the seat. they were not observed when he "was gearing up". did he change into survival gear or jump gear in the bathroom, then dump his suit out the back and drop the tie in the process? This is somthing we can not say cause, cause we do not know and won't know so making comments he had no shoes and was wearing a suit is urban ledgend till it is proved, and that scientifically can not be done till a time machine is invented.

I am not trying to pick a fight, we talk all the time about fanatasy versus know accepted evidence. I think this is a great example. Wouldn't you agree you are going on presumed not verified evidence.

Thanks

Hancock and Mucklow saw Cooper
suiting up - except for dawning a chut he changed nothing. Went out as he came in.

White Buffalo Woman Pte Ska Win'tho T'tanka
says this is so.

[georger 244]

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sorry to rain on the testosterone parade, but i think you have no chance in hell to think for an instance the FAA is going to sign off on this LZ so you can make this jump. With that the words bandit jumps come to mind. No DZO is going to risk his plane or DZ to be apart of that. I would love to do it, but reality says no chance of a clearance from the FAA.

you forgot:

White Buffalo Woman Pte Ska Win'tho T'tanka
runs the FAA, and all other manifestations of the
human animal too!

[georger 244]

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I was thinking how this is like the Survivor TV show.

That thought struck years ago -

Thatis why White Buffalo Woman Pte Ska Win'tho T'tanka copywrites everything she says/does.
White Buffalo Woman Pte Ska Win'tho T'tanka
is in charge fo this production -

[georger 244]

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Jerry tried to claim "Flight path was pointed out by Rat as being to the east of v23 and over the troutdale Airport. "

Bruce Thomas interviewed Rat recently and posted the interview.
Go back and review it.

Your claim seems weak here Jerry.

Yes by all means read it.
Bruce for got to ask Rat the crucial questions!
I asked Bruce to call Rat back and ask him
the crucial questions. When he did not, I called
Rat myself, but White Buffalo Woman Pte Ska Win'tho T'tanka said I couldnt post Rat's answers.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

georger,

Have you checked your PMs today. I've been ringing your phone.

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[Amazon 7]

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okay, this is a little too personal, but it's worth sharing.

So I hook up with this guy I've never met and we go up to Canada to do a very hard route. It's very cold and we're all nervous, and failure possibility is high. We do a warmup thing and it goes okay and finally the big day comes and we leave at like 3AM for the long walk in, which is tough because you don't know if anyone else is going to be on the route until you walk in a couple miles. So we get there and there's like two people gearing up...

In the dark you can't make them out..just a mash of gear and goretex and headlamps. Finally they say something and we realize it's two women. Fuck! two women beat us to our route, even though we left way early.

But it turns out they're going to do another route two over.

So we do our route. And we do get it done, although we never did anything together after that, and I left the trip early. So you can see it wasn't buddy buddy. But I remember in the tension of the whole thing, I'm looking over at the other team of two women, and they're in the same rough situation as us, and it's really cold...And the stronger woman is belaying the slightly less strong woman up, who's moving slow...and she's chattering (freezing, waiting for her partner to arrive with her coat) but encouraging her partner.

And I forget now what it was, I think one gave the other their coat, and I realized then that watching those two women, they were a vastly stronger team than us. (although we were on the slightly bigger ego route).

If I remember right, the one woman was the first US? woman to summit everest, I think it was.

Makes one reflect on oneself.

My experience is that many women like me do things like wilderness survival, skydiving, climbing or other "extreme" sports because we wish to challenge ourselves. We do it because we LOVE to do it. I love flying my body for that brief minute after I leave the plane. I guess I also do things like that to tell others not to place artificial limitations on ME, because of their own prejudices.

I do NOT do it for bragging rights.. or to show up my friends, which seems to be a much more common theme among so many others in a large percentage of the population..

[377 22]

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Oh and DUUUUUDE get a 4x4 that will go offroad..not that F-250 tank... no wonder you cant get into the back country.. might I suggest a nice 2 wheeler... or a Polaris Sportsman.

Hell, Jerry can stay at home and send out this ground drone robodog to look for Cooper. Not 4WD, 4LD. Watch it:


http://www.popsci.com/military-aviation-space/article/2008-03/darpas-amazing-robot-pack-mule-keeps-its-balance-ice

Snowmman Industries has a superior version that uses a nuclear battery. It can go for years. These nuke batts can be had in the old USSR suprisingly cheap.

Snow designed an adaptive networking protocol that has resulted in the spontaneous formation of dogpacks with aggressive agendas. The see money as food and they understand finance so they don't just stick up people for their wallet cash. They are programmed to be very hungry.

When Snow's robodogs deliver a ransom demand it doesnt go to a stewardess. It is delivered to a boardroom. Snowmman Industries gets a majority stake in the airline, not a mere $200,000 and a quartet of ragged out chutes.

Bow wow. Good dog.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 244]

It all depends on the area now doesn't it Jerry. Both companies own vast tracts of land in SW Washington. Lets not look at the map of the Gifford Pinchot NF today.. but the way it was back in 1971. Maybe your senior moments are preventing you from remembering that the government and the timber companies did quite a bit of swapping of land after Mt St Helens and the consolidation that led to Reagans signing the National Monument into being in 1982. They traded whole sections of land all over that area so they could set the boundries of the monument literally as a set aside forever. Face it there is a HELL of a lot clear cuts all over the area.. INCLUDING on national forest land. The only areas not cut have some special significance like the Mt St Helens monument the Big Lava Bed or the Trapper Creek Wilderness, ..............................

[snowmman 3]

377 joked
"When Snow's robodogs deliver a ransom demand it doesnt go to a stewardess. It is delivered to a boardroom. Snowmman Industries gets a majority stake in the airline, not a mere $200,000 and a quartet of ragged out chutes."

:) honestly I'm out of that part of the business now..

(edit) hey! remember I said I just need 3 guys (women?) armed up and I could take over anything? Gotta recruit somewhere!

[georger 244]

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georger,

Have you checked your PMs today. I've been ringing your phone.

give me a few minutes - have holiday events
today - trying to do too many things at once -
Thanks.

[snowmman 3]

Georger, you said
"McCoy on the other hand knew exactly where he was. "

review the other jumpers and decide if they knew where they were any more than Cooper.

Hell, start with Guatemala! or LaPoint!

(edit) 377: cool robot dog. I'd not seen that. Thanks for posting.

[snowmman 3]

While SI acknowledges it's role in publishing a link to the TSA screening procedures on the popular social networking site Dropzone.com, we deny any connection with today's release of information about the weapons carried by air marshalls.

Corporate Drone Snowmman said "We see no profit in such a move and will not invest in that".

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/tsa-security-cops-blast-release-handgun-information/story?id=9403793

[happythoughts 0]

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is Amazon a woman? is that what the name reference is! Woot!

DUH

It would really suck for Jerry if a girl can do this kinda thing and he can't.... that seems to have been the story of my life... surpassing others expectations and their own self imposed limitations.

I hope you aren't going to let these slackers do this the easy way.

Must be - At night, light rain, same temp, same exit speed,
same gear, and shoes.

At 80mph out of a Cessna, they might keep the loafers on.
That would hardly be fair.

[Amazon 7]

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is Amazon a woman? is that what the name reference is! Woot!

DUH

It would really suck for Jerry if a girl can do this kinda thing and he can't.... that seems to have been the story of my life... surpassing others expectations and their own self imposed limitations.

I hope you aren't going to let these slackers do this the easy way.

Must be - At night, light rain, same temp, same exit speed,
same gear, and shoes.

At 80mph out of a Cessna, they might keep the loafers on.
That would hardly be fair.

Oh come on... DB had to have had a few training jumps somewhere along the line... Getting the LEG and a few of the non jumpers here in the breeze would at least be a start before we jump into the DEATH WOODS.

[snowmman 3]

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is Amazon a woman? is that what the name reference is! Woot!

DUH

It would really suck for Jerry if a girl can do this kinda thing and he can't.... that seems to have been the story of my life... surpassing others expectations and their own self imposed limitations.

I hope you aren't going to let these slackers do this the easy way.

Must be - At night, light rain, same temp, same exit speed,
same gear, and shoes.

At 80mph out of a Cessna, they might keep the loafers on.
That would hardly be fair.

Hey I'll let everyone off the "let's prove snowmman is full of shit" hook by agreeing that all the evidence and comments from folks here, say, if Cooper jumped, he was probably injured on landing. Now who knows to what extent that would limit ground mobility.

Since you're not going to set me up for ground injury, it just can't be apples to apples.

Note this morphed into a Cooper jump reenactment, only because Jerry's original proposal (let's go into the dark woods together, just you and me and a blindfold and see who squeals like a pig) wasn't scary enough.

Actually, now that I'm thinking about it and Jerry, maybe I should have worried about that first option more.....

(edit) Jerry: My understanding was you're a big time jumper. How come you haven't responded to Amazon's taunts? Not worth it or?? I'd be interested in stories. Amazon has given a few.

(edit) My understanding for this adventure is I have to just show up right? I can't understand the motivation others would have for organizing it, but so be it.

[Amazon 7]

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is Amazon a woman? is that what the name reference is! Woot!

DUH

It would really suck for Jerry if a girl can do this kinda thing and he can't.... that seems to have been the story of my life... surpassing others expectations and their own self imposed limitations.

I hope you aren't going to let these slackers do this the easy way.

Must be - At night, light rain, same temp, same exit speed,
same gear, and shoes.

At 80mph out of a Cessna, they might keep the loafers on.
That would hardly be fair.

Hey I'll let everyone off the "let's prove snowmman is full of shit" by agreeing that all the evidence and comments from folks here, say, if Cooper jumped, he was probably injured on landing. Now who knows to what extent that would limit ground mobility.

Since you're not going to set me up for ground injury, it just can't be apples to apples.

Note this morphed into a Cooper jump reenactment, only because Jerry's original proposal (let's go into the dark woods together, just you and me and a blindfold and see who squeals like a pig) wasn't scary enough.

Actually, now that I'm thinking about it and Jerry, maybe I should have worried about that first option more.....

(edit) Jerry: My understanding was you're a big time jumper. How come you haven't responded to Amazon's taunts? Not worth it or?? I'd be interested in stories. Amazon has given a few.

My first thought is to take away all that SCARY..... death jump bullpucky. Way too many misconceptions.. that is why I said that EVERYONE posting to this thread... needs to get hucked from a plane. It will get rid of a whole lot of bullshit and show that jumping from a plane is survivable/. We can work on the rest of the misconceptions later

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

I’ve been watching this display of testosterone that I previously labeled “The Power Struggle (With No Power to Be Had)” and it has really started me to thinking.

I was amused at first, choosing up sides, and thinking about how brave the three involved individuals must be. And then... I started getting depressed! I began to realize that I’m not brave! I’m just a big sissy… a pussy… a woosie… a panty waist. Hell, I don’t even know anyone who is brave like those three guys.

I knew some people who I thought were brave (until now).

I knew a guy who made the first entry into the auxiliary building at the crippled Three Mile Island reactor in 1979, at a time that all the experts said there was a giant hydrogen bubble in the core and it was about to do what Chernobyl did 7 years later. I thought he was brave… but not now.

I knew an FBI Agent who rammed a car driven by a bank robber that was being chased by the police, in order to save the life of a motorcycle patrolman. He then took up a defensive position armed with only his service revolver and held that position until relieved by the SWAT team. I thought he was brave… but not now.

I knew of a preacher who demonstrated for racial equality in Birmingham and Selma while Bull Connor turned police dogs loose on him and State Troopers beat him with Billy-clubs. I thought he was brave… but not anymore.

And, I saw a young student on a very liberal campus (the one 377 went to), stand in the quad with a Bible in his hands and preach about his imaginary friend who was offering peace and solace for everyone. While the liberal students stood around and jeered at him. Even though I’m an atheist, I thought; “That’s a brave young man.” I thought he was brave… but not now.

The really funny thing is that all four of these people never even once bragged about being brave and/or pointed to these incidents to show others how brave they were/are.

So, after reading and thinking, I’ve come to the conclusion that bravery is only demonstrated by doing activities that occur outside and create adrenal hormones just for the sake of the hormones. Not altruistic activities, but hedonistic activities.

I’m not slamming rock/ice climbing or skydiving just for the thrill of it… as long as it hurts no one, go for it! I just didn’t realize, until this discussion that it is the only way to measure bravery. And it creates a need to point it out so others will know how brave you are.

So, as I said, now I’m depressed. I’m a woosie, because I don’t skydive or rock-climb. (And, I have to admit the prospect of either scares the shit out of me). I will probably never amount to anything. I guess I’ll just end it all.

I'm gonna off myself...Goodbye cruel world!

But wait!!!!

I just read an article called “Risk of Skydiving Accidents” from How Stuff Works. It says:

Skydiving is a remarkably popular sport. The United States Parachuting Association has 34,000 members. It estimates that about 350,000 people complete more than 3 million jumps in a typical year.
The big question is always, "How dangerous is skydiving?" Each year, about 30 people die in parachuting accidents in the United States, or roughly one person per 100,000 jumps. Look at the US Skydiving Incident Reports to get an idea of the types of problems that lead to fatalities. If you make one jump in a year, your chance of dying is 1 in 100,000.

How does the fatality rate in skydiving compare to other common activities? Since most adults in America drive cars, let's compare skydiving to driving. Roughly 40,000 people die each year in traffic accidents in the United States. That's 1.7 deaths per 100 million vehicle miles. Therefore, if you drive 10,000 miles per year, your chance of dying in a car wreck in any given year is something like 1 in 6,000. In other words, we accept a higher level of risk by getting into our cars every day than people do by occasionally skydiving. You would have to jump 17 times per year for your risk of dying in a skydiving accident to equal your risk of dying in a car accident if you drive 10,000 miles per year.

A logical question to ask here is this: Given these statistics, why do we think of skydiving as dangerous and driving a car as safe?

The first reason has to do with frequency. At 30 per year, fatal skydiving accidents are infrequent. That tends to make each one newsworthy, so you are likely to hear about them. On the other hand, there are about 110 fatal car accidents every day in the United States. In a city of one million people, 160 people die every year in car accidents. If you heard about every car accident, you would go insane, so you only hear about a few of them. That leaves you with the impression that car accidents are infrequent even though they happen constantly.

The second reason has to do with familiarity. Most people drive every day and nothing bad happens. So our personal experience leads us to believe that driving is safe. It is only when you look at the aggregated statistics that you realize how dangerous driving really is.

So, now I feel better about myself... I AM brave after all! I’m more brave than a skydiver ‘cause I drive 20,000 – 25,000 miles a year. I can just feel the adrenal hormones surging through my body.

BTW: Amazon, you keep using two terms that I (the lowly whuffo) don’t understand. Huck and LEG.

Hucking sounds it might have a sexual connotation and you use LEG when referencing Jerry a lot.

I hope you aren’t making fun of him because he’s an amputee. You did know he’s an amputee… didn’t you? Boy, that’s really crass!

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