DB Cooper

[snowmman 3]

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just ran into an interesting history bit
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=ewc0AAAAIBAJ&sjid=YfcDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5394,4602028&dq=issaquah+skydiving&hl=en

Nov 19, 1962
Paul Clifford died during a night jump at Issaquah (age 23).
He was president of the Boeing Employees Skydivers club.

Did we have any previous posts about this club?? Did the FBI talk to them??

It's a good example of what I was saying...most of the talking and history we do here, kind of bullshit, it doesn't really cover the real history, and applicable detail.

There's plenty of applicable detail. I tried to get conversations going here, but people here don't have any information.

I've dug up as much as I can that I thought applied, but only ended up with the one interesting case.

It made be realize, that if there's one good one, is there more? Probably. Made me realize that the FBI investigation was likely bullshit, and there is nothing we can do. You need FBI resources to go further.

[snowmman 3]

georger said "Go back to Ckret's posts. The club was discussed
at length."

No it wasn't georger. You go back. Look at the years if any were posted. Correlate the death notice with the years previously mentioned (by Ckret). (edit) Actually I'm not sure what years were mentioned by Ckret, if any. I'm not going back to look.

You're stupid, georger. Do you realize that?

[snowmman 3]

georger observed "Oh, and a number of people have left the forum.
Did you get that?"

Georger: I observe you haven't.

Why not?

I thought you weren't reading my posts. Fucking liar!

[happythoughts 0]

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I have had discussions with guys who jumped
in Calif back in the day. They are all certain that they know who DBC was.

"This one guy who jumped with us on a team, worked for an airline. All of a sudden, he didn't come to the dz after the Cooper thing. That guy was definitely Cooper."

I know 20 guys with that story.

...name...?

20 guys with the same story, but those 20 guys are talking about 20 different suspects.
Most of them would be dead by now, due to lifestyle and age (75+).

Also, I have never asked the name of their suspects.
That information just means that impolite people will
stop by your house to chat with you.

Last year, my parent lost $300K from his investment
portfolio because of thieving Wall Street swine.
The FBI isn't trying to put them in jail.
Now the stimulus money is costing every American another $10K in the future.
Those rich thieves are getting $500K bonuses this year too.

DBC stood at the bottom of that stair and looked down, then he stepped out.
I can respect that, at least.
Cooper wasn't a rich person using a pen to steal. If he's ever caught, he'll admit that he knew he was breaking a law.

I think this thread is interesting, but it is just entertainment.
If I ever find out, I'm not posting a name online - I'm buying him a beer at the dz bar.

[snowmman 3]

happy said "If I ever find out, I'm not posting a name online - I'm buying him a beer at the dz bar."

Happy, let's be real.
There is no way you could ever find out. How could you?
Someone would give you a twenty?

Were you just joking about the above? You agree it's not possible for anyone to know who Cooper was, right?
There's no way to go from any facts about someone to saying they are Cooper.

That's reality.

So, your intent is achieved, independent of anything you do.

So you can do anything you want. The result is independent of you.

[snowmman 3]

Happy said "Last year, my parent lost $300K from his investment portfolio because of thieving Wall Street swine."


Where did the $300k originally come from? I suspect the same Wall Street swine? or was it earned thru other means.

I'm just wondering. Lots of people lost lots of money.

The reasons are complicated. Unless you understand them, what does it mean for how you decide what to do with money in the future?

The problem is that we are all interconnected.

And people only want to be interconnected as long as it's positive for them. They get pissed at having to be part of the negatives. So they buy guns to solve the problem (but shoot at the wrong people)

[377 22]

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I have had discussions with guys who jumped
in Calif back in the day. They are all certain that they know who DBC was.

"This one guy who jumped with us on a team, worked for an airline. All of a sudden, he didn't come to the dz after the Cooper thing. That guy was definitely Cooper."

I know 20 guys with that story.

...name...?

Bill Dause, DZO at Lodi (Parachute Penter) was the initial top pick in Northern Cal among skydivers, but he doesnt look like the sketch so soon we had to select others. Bill is a commercial pilot and very skilled skydiver with zillions of jumps (now has about 26,000!!!). He reportedly got the attention of the IRS due to his ownership of far more assets than his reported income would account for. He had a P 51 Mustang, possibly even two of them for a while, plus many other valuable aircraft.

Quite a few California jumpers thought Mayfield was Cooper and some still do.

You had to have been there in the 71 jumping scene. We all thought Cooper HAD to be a skydiver. Few worried about the hijack giving skydiving a bad name. We kinda liked the outlaw image that skydiving had even though most jumpers were just working folks who didnt do crimes.

Tandems ruined all of that status stuff. After tandems got popular you couldnt impress anyone with just being an ordinary skydiver. Now you have to claim to have skimmed granite faces in a wingsuit to even get a second look from women at a party.

I am trying to see if I can photoshop a photo of me belly flying into an awesome wingsuit BASE jump picture.

Me: "yeah, I spent the summer in Norway BASE jumping the Fjords. I have a picture right here on my iPhone."

Her: "How pathetic. The sun's in the wrong position for those latitudes in summer. Looks like a fake to me. I'd say you were at about 37 degrees North, California's latitude, and PUHLEEEZE...that wingsuit is such an obvious cut and paste job. I came to this party to meet Snowmann, do you know him?

Me: "No, never heard of the guy."

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

377 reported on the party conversation
"I came to this party to meet Snowmann, do you know him?
Me: "No, I never heard of the guy."



I've got my party talk down

"and shit, after a couple years, I found I could track just as good without the wing suit..you gotta arch your back and get a little vacuum going there"

[377 22]

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"and shit, after a couple years, I found I could track just as good without the wing suit..you gotta arch your back and get a little vacuum going there"

Somewhere there is a video of jumpers exiting the WFFC 727 at Quincy, arching hard, and climbing ABOVE the altitude of the plane they just exited from as they slowed down to terminal velocity.

Really.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

I found an email address for the pilot of the WFFC 727 jumpship. I dont wish to post it here but if anyone wants to talk 727 jumps with someone who flew jumpers in a 727, PM me.

As I recall he flew 727 freighters for Amjet.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[happythoughts 0]

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You had to have been there in the 71 jumping scene. We all thought Cooper HAD to be a skydiver. Few worried about the hijack giving skydiving a bad name.

I never thought he was a civilian jumper.

Canadian or American. Ex-airborne.

A 38 yo guy who did his 20 years and got out.
Maybe he had jump training 10 years before, but was not current.

He discovered that his job skills didn't move into the civilian sector well.

Probably got screwed by the VA on benefits of some
kind - hence the "grudge".

42 years old. He went from being in charge and having valuable skills
to being under-employed and miserable.

Got on a plane and did what he knew.

[snowmman 3]

happy:

why 42 years old (I thought the descriptions were older)

why did you add Canadian? just because it's physically close? or ??

[Heatmiser 0]

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happy:

why 42 years old (I thought the descriptions were older)

why did you add Canadian? just because it's physically close? or ??

Maybe this is the reason: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

What you say is reflective of your knowledge...HOW ya say it is reflective of your experience. Airtwardo

Someone's going to be spanked! Hopefully, it will be me. Skymama

[georger 244]

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georger said "Go back to Ckret's posts. The club was discussed
at length."

No it wasn't georger. You go back. Look at the years if any were posted. Correlate the death notice with the years previously mentioned (by Ckret). (edit) Actually I'm not sure what years were mentioned by Ckret, if any. I'm not going back to look.

You're stupid, georger. Do you realize that?

Here you go Einstein (read below ... its your own post from 2008) re- Boeing skydiving club.

And you call me stupid?
--------------------------------------------------------

nowmman


Jumps
License
In sport :
:
:



Nov 5, 2008, 11:22 AM

Post #4963 of 15261 (1982 views)

Registered: Mar 30, 2008
Posts: 3979
1971 Boeing jump club: myth or fact? [In reply to] Can't Post


georger said: Quote

But the statement I have from my
Boeing engineer is stark and described forces no
ordinary person could manage and survive. In fact my Boeing friend is so firm about this he says, "That you are spending one minute on this is _____ and
I think its a total waste of time. He died and there is no other possibility. We knew that immediately."

Ask your friend to recite the history of similar successful jumps in 1972. If he can't, his opinion can be safely ignored. He probably believes the US lunar landing(s) were staged in Southern CA also since they were impossible.
In Reply To

crossed with the Boeing
enginner Ckret now cites who was a member of the
NWA jump club?


Ckret said Boeing jump club. He said it twice. I don't know if he misspoke. The only skydiving club I can find at Boeing is the "Boeing Employees Skydiving Club" BESC, formed in 1979. The data was gathered in late 71 thru early 72 sometime.

In terms of bogus data:
I read a newspaper article that had someone quoted as saying (back soon after the jump) that Cooper would have suffered black eyes from the jet exit with no googles. I was curious if skydivers would agree.. From what little I've read here, I assumed that opinion was wrong.

From their club history:
"The Boeing Employees Skydiving Club was formed in 1979 by 2 skydiving employees. It grew to become the largest non-commercial skydiving club in the country.."

It'd be nice if Ckret could clarify what he meant by Boeing jump club.

Ckret said:
"Didn't open the jpg's to look at the report you were referencing, [ed. the pg 272-273 report] I was speaking to the jump (equipement used and how it would have performed in a highor low opening) which was calulated by a member of the Boeing jump club, of which all were investigated. "

The page 272-273 report says nothing about skydivers from Boeing. It mentions a NWA pilot skydiver. Other data is mentioned as being from "The Boeing Company".

Boeing data was called "free-fall" data and specifically identified as different from "parachute open condition" data. To me, that suggests Boeing data didn't come from a jump club. In any case, if it did, why wasn't the jump club identified as the source, rather than saying "The Boeing Company"?

Or did Ckret just misspeak?


(This post was edited by snowmman on Nov 5, 2008, 1:15 PM)

[georger 244]

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Jo's analysis of the symbolism in Duane's last words would have greatly pleased my high school English teacher. She was always finding Christian rebirth meanings in everything from Willa Cather to JD Salinger. Want an A? Find a rebirth from accepting Christ symbolism in anything from Moby Dick to A Tale of Two Cities.

How about Duane shoplifting massive caches of Kool Aid? How does that risky behavior fit in with him pulling up stakes and moving to avoid attention, especially if he thought he'd "left his prints on the aft stairs."

A shoplifting arrest would include fingerprinting.
When did Duane ever give anyone "the shirt off his back." Last I heard he was swiping their coats.

Still, I found Jo's post strangely touching.

377

While fishing for synbolisms and meaning: try
the word PERSECUTION!

[snowmman 3]

I love when georger says Ckret discussed something or the forum discussed something...and I challenge him to go back and show me the data...and he has to dredge up something I posted.


It's a nice ego stroke, though.

So I didn't grok what you meant with the post you reposted.

You said we went thru all this before.

Can you summarize what we know or went thru?

You implied there was a lot of discussion. What was the summary?

[georger 244]

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As for Snow & 377's socalled candidate; that is old news also unless it is something recent.

Seriously Georger, find the suspect THEN tell us how irrelevant he is.

Or admit that Snow is a better searcher and beg for the name.

I had to eat some RF cooked crow because I couldn't find him.

How do you like your crow seasoned?

The dogs don't chew them unless Snow gives them permission.

This is a great lesson in the subtilty of search word choices.

377

Now why would I want to waste my time on that?

You and Snow are piccolo players - correct?

Weve been playing this score for 50,000 bars - correct?

Has it dawned on your and Snow your playing the
tympany part!? (on your damned piccolos, no less!)

Somebody handed you the wrong parts when the music was passed out!

Duhhhhhhhhhh.

The band is playing Swannee! You & Snowblower
are playing "Persecution Rag", and playing the wrong damned parts no less!

Christ on a Crutch.

[377 22]

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Now why would I want to waste my time on that?

To hone your search skills Georger. I'm not kidding. It is a worthwhile exercise.

Just do it. Tiger did.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 244]

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I love when georger says Ckret discussed something or the forum discussed something...and I challenge him to go back and show me the data...and he has to dredge up something I posted.


It's a nice ego stroke, though.

So I didn't grok what you meant with the post you reposted.

You said we went thru all this before.

Can you summarize what we know or went thru?

You implied there was a lot of discussion. What was the summary?

Ive seen the movie before. Let me quote it:

"Fuck you Beaver".

[snowmman 3]

As president-for-life of the CSG, it's out of place for me to individually claim the rewards for all the hard work CSG does.

I would be misrepresenting things if I didn't give a shoutout to all the CSG members, acknowledging that I'm only representing their hard work.

And to Theresa down in shipping, congratulations on the new baby!

[snowmman 3]

loving the rate.
666 is within reach.
we were just at 600, and now, what 611?

success is within our grasp!

I vote 377 gets to make the first post on page 666 when we get there.

[377 22]

The rate is great, but the S/N is just so so. Lots of noise from Iowa.

I still like Georger even though he doesnt share the feelings.

I consulted Notradamus and Madame Cleo. Both say the first post on page 666 is mine.

Olga just emailed me. AEROFLOT flights from Leningrad to Perris Valley are still on "security hold", but if I send another $1000 by Western Union, she can arrange to have the hold lifted.

Olga attached a picture, even racier then the last one. She says she can't wait to see me. Should I send the money or just wait for normal flight schedules to resume?

What would Snow do?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

I was thinking about 377's comments about search skills.

As I said, I decided this guy wasn't the guy.

But: I do have 3 photos of him.
Each require different strategies for acquiring.

One, it was a couple of months before I realized there was a path to it.
One requires payment.

I'll give some hints.
One is from 1966, b/w
One is from later, b/w with a beard
One is recent (within 2 years) color.

I'm fairly confident no one can find all 3 photos.
For that reason alone, I find joy.

edit) I've always thought the process was more important than any ending. If you have a good process, then you can be confident of the ending. Without a good process, you can have an ending, but it means nothing. I'm confident there is no additional info anyone has, so I don't have to care.
Strength of process.

[snowmman 3]

georger once said he had people making minimum wage who could run circles around me.

Now's the time to get them cranked up georger. Time to make hay. Time to break out the crystal meth.

now or never. Time to shine!

[377 22]

I think Georger could find two of the photos, but he is afraid to take the challenge. Instead of showing his search prowess, he derides me and Snow.

It feeds Snow's ego, so I guess that's good.

If I ran the FBI I'd do anything I could to draft Snow, but I'd have to assign at least four SAs to keep an eye on him.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.