DB Cooper

[snowmman 3]

If trying to shape a behavior using a clicker and intermittent rewards, make sure you allow the dog to work for the reward. A common mistake is to not wait long enough. If you reward before you get the desired behavior, you're training undesired behavior.

[377 22]

So how can I use this to my advantage at parties?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

So how can I use this to my advantage at parties?

377

uh. I don't know how to break this to you.
But the most critical thing is finding something your dog wants.
If the dog doesn't like food rewards, you're not going to get anywhere with more food rewards.

Hey, it's not like I'm bragging. But at least I'm out there on the pullup bar trying to create something.

But all dogs like something. Some are fully entertained with a blade of grass. Just got to find that something. (and don't pass it over when you do find it, thinking you're supposed to be using food treats).

(edit) oh that, and timing. Only click on the desired behavior. Then reward. Don't jump the gun and click wrong behavior.

(edit) Oh yeah, and the dog always has to be winning. You don't need to be winning. What's fun in losing all the time?
"Always be winning" can be thought of as a variant on "Cheat to win" :)

[skyjack71 0]

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Jo,

I don't like answering your posts as I feel like I am "feeding the troll".

But your last post had a small section of interest. Are you alleging that

1) Tina gave Cooper a notebook/diary on the flight and that this is definitely THE Tina (not Tina Turner)
2) You still have this book in your possession and the mystical FBI gremlins have not made it go "poof"?

I hope you'll prove me wrong and provide a straight answer to these questions - but I am not holding my breath as you've got a reputation to uphold

I try to give straight answers, but I refuse to provide somethings I have not been able to verify...which I and others have worked hard to acquire.

I have refused to show the front of the book or the title because I want it to be described and identified by the individual it belongs to...this is a reason thing.

1. Tina did not give Cooper a "notebook/diary" - but there does exist a book which resembles a diary or notebook only in size and appearance, acquired by Weber which I believe belonged to Tina - with the NOTED writings and drawings I have quoted in this forum. There is a picture of a little girl in it who resembles Tina. See the attachements. There is a piece of notebook paper inside with information written on it (not related to Cooper or the flight).

2. I have this book - locked away in a safe place and not under my name. I have told the FBI about this book - they were NOT interested and never asked to know any information about it. Do you really believe the FBI would let it's rookie agent have access to all - that would create a security glich.

3. This book along with lots of things was discussed with the FBI. They took only the old resume in 1997. In 2003 they collected some DNA after things had been used by others and cleaned and much of what I had - was given away or taken to Goodwill.

4. I made sure they can't make this go "poof"..... they have been aware of it for a few yrs. Just never thought I would realize what I might have...even I am not sure of what I have, but it DOES exist...

5. It was this thread that made the connection between the little girl and Tina - NOT me. It origin and reason has always puzzled me and I believe it is connected because it came to be in 1990 when all of the other things came into the house and in his possession...after his mysterious 48 hr disappearance from Tallahasee at that time. The one in which an airline ticket was charged to my acct. He claimed he didn't make it and I argued for 9 months with the credit card company - finally he said - "Its' not that much just pay it".

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[airtwardo 7]

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"so this is safe right? What are the odds everything's going to be ok?"

I still use the same reply MY instructor gave me on my 1st free-fall.



"If the good Lord was lookin' for a perfect day to take shit on ya...this would be it."

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[snowmman 3]

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Quote

"so this is safe right? What are the odds everything's going to be ok?"

I still use the same reply MY instructor gave me on my 1st free-fall.



"If the good Lord was lookin' for a perfect day to take shit on ya...this would be it."

oh damn, now 377's going to be jumping with a roll of toilet paper, in addition to his 5 altimeters.

[Amazon 7]

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just ran into an interesting history bit
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=ewc0AAAAIBAJ&sjid=YfcDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5394,4602028&dq=issaquah+skydiving&hl=en

Nov 19, 1962
Paul Clifford died during a night jump at Issaquah (age 23).
He was president of the Boeing Employees Skydivers club.

Did we have any previous posts about this club?? Did the FBI talk to them??

Yeah its where theparachutes were brought to the plane from.

Long gone now.. but a long time home of the Seattle Skydivers. They moved from there back to Snohomish..... where I jump since its only a few miles form my house..

[Amazon 7]

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Are there odds on that bet?

Vegas called...it's somewhere in between a snowman's chance in hell~

and

~ walkin' away from night landing on a C-9 in an Oregon thunderstorm.




I dunno...maybe I heard them wrong from Vegas, who the heck is 'Slim the Nun' ?

Drizzle and a bit of rain in November.. thunderstorms in November in the Pacific NorthWET... not so much.. just a weather fact.

What kinda odds would you give me at in drizzley weather..at night over trees with a C-9... given proper financial rewards

[snowmman 3]

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Quote

Quote

just ran into an interesting history bit
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=ewc0AAAAIBAJ&sjid=YfcDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5394,4602028&dq=issaquah+skydiving&hl=en

Nov 19, 1962
Paul Clifford died during a night jump at Issaquah (age 23).
He was president of the Boeing Employees Skydivers club.

Did we have any previous posts about this club?? Did the FBI talk to them??

Yeah its where theparachutes were brought to the plane from.

Long gone now.. but a long time home of the Seattle Skydivers. They moved from there back to Snohomish..... where I jump since its only a few miles form my house..

I posted some photos of Issaquah from the '60s from newspapers back in the thread. Some of the buildings there. Some of an old plane they used. I think I remember 377 commenting about the old plane when I posted a picture of it.

Some from around when they held the Nationals at Issaquah in 1963.

Two nice photos, for example, here:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3437442;search_string=Issaquah%20nationals;#3437442
old picture of Linn Emrich there (2nd)
I was posting then, trying to drum up anyone from those days.
The lack of response was what led to my thinking the right group of people don't post here.

[snowmman 3]

Picture of Issaquah Parachute Center (was Skyport?) in 1980

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3384609;search_string=issaquah%20;#3384609

[snowmman 3]

As confirmation of what I posted earlier

from Linn Emrich's obituary, in 2002

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20021010&slug=emrichobit10e

"Pickering, 80, fondly recalled spending time with Mr. Emrich at Issaquah Skyport.

His one regret: Mr. Emrich didn't call him the time five naked women leapt out of a plane."

(edit) It was a 1929 Travelair in 1963 (attached)

[georger 244]

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I think Georger could find two of the photos, but he is afraid to take the challenge. Instead of showing his search prowess, he derides me and Snow.

It feeds Snow's ego, so I guess that's good.

If I ran the FBI I'd do anything I could to draft Snow, but I'd have to assign at least four SAs to keep an eye on him.

377

Its not fear at all. Im just coming from the other
end of this. I generally dont chase rainbows. But
more importantly Snow and I discussed this privately, briefly (I think). I listened to what he had to say, I sympathised, I tend to stay out of people's
business unless asked in, and I thought: 'well its Ckret and Snow's call'. That is all there is to this, from my perspective. I thought Sluggo might be involved. I knew Tom wasnt involved. I went on
with my dinner and the day's work . . .

[snowmman 3]

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Quote

I think Georger could find two of the photos, but he is afraid to take the challenge. Instead of showing his search prowess, he derides me and Snow.

It feeds Snow's ego, so I guess that's good.

If I ran the FBI I'd do anything I could to draft Snow, but I'd have to assign at least four SAs to keep an eye on him.

377

Its not fear at all. Im just coming from the other
end of this. I generally dont chase rainbows. But
more importantly Snow and I discussed this privately, briefly (I think). I listened to what he had to say, I sympathised, I tend to stay out of people's
business unless asked in, and I thought: 'well its Ckret and Snow's call'. That is all there is to this, from my perspective. I thought Sluggo might be involved. I knew Tom wasnt involved. I went on
with my dinner and the day's work . . .

Sorry Georger, your ass-kissing doesn't cut it.
I've always thought you were an asshole.
I may have PM'ed you once or twice. Heck post any and all PMs I ever sent you. I don't care.
You're full of shit.

(edit) I really doubt I PM'ed you on this thing. Prove me wrong.

(edit) On the other hand, it's not your fault. As president-for-life of the CSG, I do have powers beyond those granted by Congress.

[georger 244]

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Quote

Quote

just ran into an interesting history bit
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=ewc0AAAAIBAJ&sjid=YfcDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5394,4602028&dq=issaquah+skydiving&hl=en

Nov 19, 1962
Paul Clifford died during a night jump at Issaquah (age 23).
He was president of the Boeing Employees Skydivers club.

Did we have any previous posts about this club?? Did the FBI talk to them??

Per conversations I had with retired FBI - this group was one of the first they looked at and interviewed. That is why I had tried to make contact before I ever had a computer. It was one of the starting points.

N467US was a Boeing plane. Some people felt Cooper knew more about the plane than the average person. A crew member may have suggested just that. Boeing personnel were
involved in discussions as the plane sat at SEA
so Boeing personnel were already in the loop.
Looking at Boeing employees was a logic next
step.

[georger 244]

Quote

Exactly. The FBI looked at all this before.

Now tell me again, what can anyone here do that the FBI couldn't?

(edit) I remember reading the transcript of when the FBI interviewed Braden in '73. It's amazing how they were able to figure out he wasn't Cooper in just a couple hours.

Hats off!

You have read a 1973 FBI interview transcript of Braden, and the FBI disposition file?

I dont recall you ever claming this before?
I must have missed this!

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Quote

Exactly. The FBI looked at all this before.

Now tell me again, what can anyone here do that the FBI couldn't?

(edit) I remember reading the transcript of when the FBI interviewed Braden in '73. It's amazing how they were able to figure out he wasn't Cooper in just a couple hours.

Hats off!

You have read a 1973 FBI interview transcript of Braden, and the FBI disposition file?

I dont recall you ever claming this before?
I must have missed this!

Exactly. As far as Sluggo reported, the FBI never contacted Braden.

It's an example of how silly it is to listen to Jo's comments on what the FBI did or didn't do. Or Orange1's about what the FBI did or didn't do.

The right answer: no one has a clue what the FBI did. Best to assume they just jerked off.

(edit) I use Braden as an example, because Waugh thought he was worth investigating. If you're going to say Waugh's opinion is worth less than whoever's opinion it was that caused the FBI to interview that other SOG guy (forgot his name)...well I guess there's a difference of opinion.

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

just ran into an interesting history bit
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=ewc0AAAAIBAJ&sjid=YfcDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5394,4602028&dq=issaquah+skydiving&hl=en

Nov 19, 1962
Paul Clifford died during a night jump at Issaquah (age 23).
He was president of the Boeing Employees Skydivers club.

Did we have any previous posts about this club?? Did the FBI talk to them??

Per conversations I had with retired FBI - this group was one of the first they looked at and interviewed. That is why I had tried to make contact before I ever had a computer. It was one of the starting points.

N467US was a Boeing plane. Some people felt Cooper knew more about the plane than the average person. A crew member may have suggested just that. Boeing personnel were
involved in discussions as the plane sat at SEA
so Boeing personnel were already in the loop.
Looking at Boeing employees was a logic next
step.

Being a Boeing Employee is not all that exclusive a club.. I even worked there for a couple years...

I wish they would have taken me up on my offer to test jump the 787 Dreamliner... I have stood right there in the port rear door..... looked at the horizontal stabilizer.. the curve of the fusalage there.... no problem

Full flaps... gear down.. Approach speed of 150 knots..open the rear door...... and give me 3500' over Paine filed... easy..

Check the door

http://blog.flightstory.net/wp-content/uploads/787-dreamliner-fatigue-airframe.jpg

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Orange1: check with Jo again on what the FBI did back then.

I think maybe there was Kool Aid involved that hasn't been fully discussed.

Look, I haven't read the posts that brought up Kool Aid. But presumably when we are talking late 60s/early 70s there is one HUGELY obvious implication of Kool Aid? What are people saying, that Cooper was on LSD when he did the hijack??

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[georger 244]

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Quote

Quote

I think Georger could find two of the photos, but he is afraid to take the challenge. Instead of showing his search prowess, he derides me and Snow.

It feeds Snow's ego, so I guess that's good.

If I ran the FBI I'd do anything I could to draft Snow, but I'd have to assign at least four SAs to keep an eye on him.

377

Its not fear at all. Im just coming from the other
end of this. I generally dont chase rainbows. But
more importantly Snow and I discussed this privately, briefly (I think). I listened to what he had to say, I sympathised, I tend to stay out of people's
business unless asked in, and I thought: 'well its Ckret and Snow's call'. That is all there is to this, from my perspective. I thought Sluggo might be involved. I knew Tom wasnt involved. I went on
with my dinner and the day's work . . .

Sorry Georger, your ass-kissing doesn't cut it.
I've always thought you were an asshole.
I may have PM'ed you once or twice. Heck post any and all PMs I ever sent you. I don't care.
You're full of shit.

(edit) I really doubt I PM'ed you on this thing. Prove me wrong.

(edit) On the other hand, it's not your fault. As president-for-life of the CSG, I do have powers beyond those granted by Congress.

so you are denying you told me about your
candidate and Larry not getting back to you
about it, that you were pissed after all the time you spent, blah blah blah ....

FUCK YOU BEAVER.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

He was president of the Boeing Employees Skydivers club.

Did we have any previous posts about this club?? Did the FBI talk to them??

Yeah its where theparachutes were brought to the plane from.

Long gone now.. but a long time home of the Seattle Skydivers. They moved from there back to Snohomish..... where I jump since its only a few miles form my house..

I knew the parachutes came from Issaquah but I wasn't aware that it was called the Boeing Employee Skydivers Club!

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[georger 244]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Exactly. The FBI looked at all this before.

Now tell me again, what can anyone here do that the FBI couldn't?

(edit) I remember reading the transcript of when the FBI interviewed Braden in '73. It's amazing how they were able to figure out he wasn't Cooper in just a couple hours.

Hats off!

You have read a 1973 FBI interview transcript of Braden, and the FBI disposition file?

I dont recall you ever claming this before?
I must have missed this!

Exactly. As far as Sluggo reported, the FBI never contacted Braden.

It's an example of how silly it is to listen to Jo's comments on what the FBI did or didn't do. Or Orange1's about what the FBI did or didn't do.

The right answer: no one has a clue what the FBI did. Best to assume they just jerked off.

(edit) I use Braden as an example, because Waugh thought he was worth investigating. If you're going to say Waugh's opinion is worth less than whoever's opinion it was that caused the FBI to interview that other SOG guy (forgot his name)...well I guess there's a difference of opinion.

Do you realise there are people who read this forum who knew Braden personally ... you silly ....?

[Farflung 0]

Being a little more familiar with aircraft operation and knowing nuthin bout jumpin, I tend to notice the aircraft related anachronisms.

Why have the gear down and full flaps if you want 150 knots? Do 130s or 141s lower their gear before a drop?

Gear will certainly induce some more drag but that can be countered by adding more thrust.

Is there a thought among jumpers that having the gear down will insure some lower airspeed? The speed limits on the heavies regarding the gear is more related to the doors than anything else. Gear operation causes those relatively delicate wheel well covers to articulate and become exposed to the slipstream.

The reason I ask has to do with Cooper's assumed aviation expertise. From his behavior I have seen very little evidence of aircraft systems knowledge. Perhaps he was trained to jump and having gear down is something jumpers are concerned about.

[georger 244]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

just ran into an interesting history bit
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=ewc0AAAAIBAJ&sjid=YfcDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5394,4602028&dq=issaquah+skydiving&hl=en

Nov 19, 1962
Paul Clifford died during a night jump at Issaquah (age 23).
He was president of the Boeing Employees Skydivers club.

Did we have any previous posts about this club?? Did the FBI talk to them??

Per conversations I had with retired FBI - this group was one of the first they looked at and interviewed. That is why I had tried to make contact before I ever had a computer. It was one of the starting points.

N467US was a Boeing plane. Some people felt Cooper knew more about the plane than the average person. A crew member may have suggested just that. Boeing personnel were
involved in discussions as the plane sat at SEA
so Boeing personnel were already in the loop.
Looking at Boeing employees was a logic next
step.

Being a Boeing Employee is not all that exclusive a club.. I even worked there for a couple years...

I wish they would have taken me up on my offer to test jump the 787 Dreamliner... I have stood right there in the port rear door..... looked at the horizontal stabilizer.. the curve of the fusalage there.... no problem

Full flaps... gear down.. Approach speed of 150 knots..open the rear door...... and give me 3500' over Paine filed... easy..

Check the door

http://blog.flightstory.net/wp-content/uploads/787-dreamliner-fatigue-airframe.jpg

I was speaking "strictly" about WHY the FBI would
investigate any particular group within the Boeing
looking for a lead to who Cooper was.

Jo's recitation of what happened is almost identical to my understanding also. Jo says she was given this
info from a retired FBI person. I have already given
my sources in earlier posts on this matter - which
Snowmman says was never discussed!

[georger 244]

Quote

Quote

Orange1: check with Jo again on what the FBI did back then.

I think maybe there was Kool Aid involved that hasn't been fully discussed.

Look, I haven't read the posts that brought up Kool Aid. But presumably when we are talking late 60s/early 70s there is one HUGELY obvious implication of Kool Aid? What are people saying, that Cooper was on LSD when he did the hijack??

I expected Kool Aid to bring in Jim Jones and his
cult. Im surprised Nomman didnt go there and bring us photos of Jonestown .... or the Great Wall ...
or Mons Olympus .... or something?

[snowmman 3]

Quote

so you are denying you told me about your
candidate and Larry not getting back to you
about it, that you were pissed after all the time you spent, blah blah blah ....

FUCK YOU BEAVER.

Hey dipshit for brains.
If you want to embarass me, just post the PMs you're claiming exist.
You're worst then Jo.
You don't have to describe the evidence.
Post the evidence.

Clearly I may have forgotten something, and you'll be able to prove it.

Go ahead.

Yes I am saying I don't think I PM'ed you.