DB Cooper

[snowmman 3]

link to another prior post I made referencing jumpers in the Columbia http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3480993;search_string=Longview;#3480993

[377 22]

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Jo Weber said I was not rude or insulting.

Talk about DISLUSIONAL!!!

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

Amazon is right, C9s run with the wind and the "steering" you get with a 4 line cut isn't going to turn it into an aerial Ferrari, BUT, any forward drive and some steering can help you miss downwind hazards even in high winds.

You can fly perpendicular to the wind to miss hazards. You can run downwind to fly over them. It's all a matter of vectors and visual judgement using angular changes to estimate whether you will undershoot, overshoot or hit a target you are looking at.

I have over 100 jumps on a tired porous C9 with just a single T slot, not the more maneuverable TU mod. Even that sluggish beast allowed me to miss power lines, barns, ponds etc in winds that were driving me backwards when I faced into the wind for final. I never collided with a hazard or even came really close.

I get to hang out with Amazon because I have been baptized in the church of the round canopy. The good old days were good, but the good old gear was crap. Nobody appreciates squares like those who have jumped surplus rounds.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

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I keep thnking Ckret has some key piece of info that the FBI is not disclosing.

He appeared to rule out Snow's candidate very fast with no significant further investigation.

That "loadmaster" part has always seemed too specific to me to be pure speculation.

They'd be pretty dumb not to hold back a few key pieces of evidence that they could use to rule out self confessed wannnabes etc.

377

Finally everything seems back on target. WHEW! Leaving all of the plane technical and jump aspects of the crime to you guys. That was why I came to DZ in the first place - because this was knowledge that everyone needed to be aware of including me even though I understand only 50% of it.

As for a TV or radio program - forget it, 377. I don't need any of that. In the mean time I will just do what I have always done, which is trudge forward out of the media frenzie. I will leave that to Gook and Grey and others.

Really hate to ask a question, as I do not want to say something that will cause you guys to loose focus. This is Cooper related, but off of the subject you are absorbed in at this time.

I am working the human end of Cooper - because all I really know is what a suspect has told me and items that might be related to the 1971 skyjacking.
Does anyone anyone know what the heritage of Tina Mucklow was? I have searched, but my research abilities are also limited

One item I have mentioned has an orientation - and before I start to make available anymore information - I need to know about Tina's heritage. She was a Mucklow, but the mother would have had another last name - prior to the marriage that produced Tina. My reasons for knowing this is NOT to find Tina (I know how to do that), but chose not to intrude into her life.

I still have this gut feeling I have had since first becoming involved in this - that I hold clues to Duane being on that Plane. I keep going back to this little book (Since I mentioned the size of the book eons ago - I presume that is how Nigel knew it was the size of a diary). The book is unique after retriving it and looking at is in more detail and actually reading it.

The heritage in this book is not that of Duane Weber - with a German ancestory - which enforces my feeling this book is more than just something he treasured from his background.
In 1972 Tina (Teena) was 22,
but in 1961 SHE was about 9 yrs of age. Was Tina's given name Christina? What
was the maiden name of her mother...? I really prefer that if anyone is capable of answering the question they provide it in a PM to protect the privacy of Tina's family. Was there an artist of sorts in her family by the name of Gertrude who was instrumental in publishing this little book?

So Many Questions and So Little Time.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

you mean like Belgium, Jo?

that would be odd.

[skyjack71 0]

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Larry Carr put the Dan Cooper comic book thing out there all over the place, just based on a whim and a prayer as far as I can see.

Was that decision based on anything more? compared to the probable random guessing about loadmaster?

Larry Carr was not the one to introduce the Dan Cooper Comic or the Loadmaster theory - ONE of you did.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

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Larry Carr put the Dan Cooper comic book thing out there all over the place, just based on a whim and a prayer as far as I can see.

Was that decision based on anything more? compared to the probable random guessing about loadmaster?

Larry Carr was not the one to introduce the Dan Cooper Comic or the Loadmaster theory - ONE of you did.

Yes, I run the FBI. What I post becomes FBI theory.
(note I posted on the history of the comic book/DBC connection. It was in another thread/forum first...not here)

well, as Sluggo says, we're all serious researchers, so I'm assuming everyone else also bought Dan Cooper comic books?

Am I the only one with a 1971 Northwest Orient System Timetable? I missed out by being cheap from getting one real close to 11/71, but mine is pretty close (I scanned it and posted it before..I could have sworn the Nat Geo documentary got their NWA flight paths for the animation from my scan...those bastards!)

[snowmman 3]

You throw the dog a bone and he runs off and disappears to eat it?

[JerryThomas 0]

Hi Jo I'm Back Jerry

[JerryThomas 0]

Jo. Why do you continue comments based on fictional stories. Your fiction is the reason for The dis belief by all . Too include the FBI they have already proven that Duane was not DB Cooper. So are you DB Cooper. Jerry

[Amazon 7]

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link to another prior post I made referencing jumpers in the Columbia http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3480993;search_string=Longview;#3480993

So Tek was having issues at the time....

Do you know how many times a plane crash has been used for people wishing to escape from their current lifeinto a new one?


I notice most of the things you were talking about in there...were about the bodies being FOUND. If someone drowns.. yes they can be down for a while... especially when the water is cold.. but when it does warm up... the swell.. the float.. they wash up. Spring Chinook season can get interesting on the Willamette and the Columbia.

[JerryThomas 0]

Snowmman. You have more bone's than you or Amazon can Handle. Go figure.Jerry

[snowmman 3]

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Snowmman. You have more bone's than you or Amazon can Handle. Go figure.Jerry

377 was asking about party patter.

Jerry: I don't think the above works at parties, nowadays.

Gotta work in a wingsuit reference.

[snowmman 3]

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link to another prior post I made referencing jumpers in the Columbia http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3480993;search_string=Longview;#3480993

So Tek was having issues at the time....

Do you know how many times a plane crash has been used for people wishing to escape from their current lifeinto a new one?


I notice most of the things you were talking about in there...were about the bodies being FOUND. If someone drowns.. yes they can be down for a while... especially when the water is cold.. but when it does warm up... the swell.. the float.. they wash up. Spring Chinook season can get interesting on the Willamette and the Columbia.

Yeah, some of those links were when I was just looking. They do not get found for some weeks sometimes.

But you're right, I don't know for sure. (edit) I spent some time once looking for more cases, but realized that the newspapers weren't sufficient to get exact numbers.

I do know that Jack Murdock wasn't found, (I think the last reference I had was at least 9 years after the incident? maybe even later?)

If you're saying Jack Murdock was murdered by Duane Weber or Duane Weber helped him disappear, yeah I guess that's possible.

I'm comfortable with believing some of the drowned victims aren't found, from what I read. I guess we'll just agree to disagree.

Tom Kaye believes all the non-found bodies are ground up by propellers and eaten by diatoms.

[snowmman 3]

So how did Jack Murdock disappear and how is this tied to the 305 hijacking. Intriguing.

He couldn't have drowned. His body would have been found.

(edit)
"May 16, 1971 when he wasn't able to get his seaplane back in the air after landing at Miller's Cove on the Columbia and it tipped over on a stormy day in May. The treacherous undertow soon carried him and his plane out of sight. The plane was later recovered. Jack was last seen precariously clinging to a float. His body was never found. "


(edit) I guess I was thinking of Miller's Landing?? (sp?) Apparently Jack staged his death (according to Amazon) near Maryhill

" ... which also has grown since his one-engine float plane overturned on the Columbia River near Maryhill on May 1971 Murdock was presumed drowned. ... "

(edit) WOW! Maryhill is 100 miles EAST of Portland...farther from the ocean! So Amazon's right...why was Murdock's death faked? You should see all the stuff that was done in his memory.
This needs to be on Coast to Coast. This is BIG!

I wonder if any if the driftwood on the Columbia is Larch?

[snowmman 3]

Apparently Jack Murdock's death was faked so they could create this charitable trust.

Maybe Duane Weber killed him? Probably.

http://www.murdock-trust.org/trust-profile/jack-murdock.php

You can tell he was a scheming bastard, from the link above:

"Jack Murdock was both an idealist and a realist and a life-long seeker of new insights. He believed in science as a main source of knowledge, and knowledge as a key ingredient to addressing and solving the issues and challenges of our world. He was thoroughly unpretentious, soft-spoken, and a listener. He possessed a rare combination of good judgment, hard work, tolerance, life-long learning, and scrupulous honesty. He practiced philanthropy through his own private foundation that existed until the Murdock Trust was formed."

Jack wrote an autobiography at age 16. There may be clues in it, here: (from 1934)

http://www.murdock-trust.org/murdock-documents/trust-profile/jack-murdock/Autobiography-1934.pdf

Note his real name was Melvin Jack Murdock. His mother's name was Mae M. Murdock.

[Orange1 0]

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amazon said " No body ever found along the river... leads me to surmise he did not land in the water and drown. "

Amazon: I posted a couple of cases of drownings in the Columbia, in that area, (including one around the time period) where the body was never found.

One was an plane. Textronix executive and his girlfriend.

The claims of "the body would be found" are not accurate.

Interestingly I was last night watching a documentary on a flood at a town called Laingsburg in 1981. One river leading into another down to the sea a few hundred km's away would have been the water flow. 72 bodies were never found.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

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amazon said " No body ever found along the river... leads me to surmise he did not land in the water and drown. "

Amazon: I posted a couple of cases of drownings in the Columbia, in that area, (including one around the time period) where the body was never found.

One was an plane. Textronix executive and his girlfriend.

The claims of "the body would be found" are not accurate.

Interestingly I was last night watching a documentary on a flood at a town called Laingsburg in 1981. One river leading into another down to the sea a few hundred km's away would have been the water flow. 72 bodies were never found.

Yeah, the weird thing about all of this, is why do people chase the complicated scenarios, when the simple ones can't be excluded? Tosaw kind of argued that, and I don't think he had as much data as we do. I don't think Tosaw had the flight path, for instance (he would have published it in his book??)

Even Ckret seemed confident that the simple answer was not possible, when he seemed to think he needed expert hydrologists to track water flow from inland.

[georger 244]

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well, not a jumper strengthens the jump in the Columbia theory, I think.

There's nothing that strongly excludes jumping into the Columbia.
Most other theories have strong "not likely" issues.

The "not likely" issues around jumping into the Columbia aren't that strong.

How? The two have nothing to do with each other
outside of random probability in a scenario where
the jumper has no idea where he is, in the first place?

I'm assuming jumpers have some training that would decrease their likelihood of jumping into the Columbia.

If you're saying jumpers and non-jumpers are equally likely to land in the Columbia, okay. my opinion: no.

I don't need to know the "why" ...just if you threw jumpers up and nonjumpers up, I think the nonjumpers would more likely end in the Columbia.

if you add in hours or daylight then sure -

I dont know what your timeframe is.

[skyjack71 0]

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you mean like Belgium, Jo?

that would be odd.

The kind of reply I have come to expect - WHAT are you guys going to do if I am right - I am more right than wrong only about some of the theories I chased...which only hurt me , but then it was OK for Carr to theorize because he is FBI...and he does not have a clue who Cooper was.

I have sent pictures and what I have been able to find to someone who will be able to chase down what I am looking for. Sure - maybe this is just is just an old book - but whatever it is or was - it was important to Duane.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

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you mean like Belgium, Jo?

that would be odd.

The kind of reply I have come to expect - WHAT are you guys going to do if I am right - I am more right than wrong only about some of the theories I chased...which only hurt me , but the it was OK for Carr to theorize because he is FBI...and he does not have a clue who Cooper was.

I have sent pictures and what I have been able to find to someone who will be able to chase down what I am looking for. Sure - maybe this is just is just an old book - but whatever it is or was - it was important to Duane.

377 thinks there's someone out there who will talk to him at parties.

Who will be successful first? You finding someone who will research Duane's little brown book, or 377 talking about vectoring rounds back in the day, to some Norwegian wingsuiter who made her way thru college serving drinks in an Icelandic bar?

I don't know. It's an interesting wager.

[snowmman 3]

Just so you know

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wssUJKRFBEg

[georger 244]

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there was another posting I made about suicide jumpers that showed how far up the Columbia a body went before being discovered by fisherman. (a recent jumper off I-5)

I think it was all the way to Longview. (which is halfway to the ocean)

Surprising.

Main point: people who think "they just know" what happens when a body goes into the Columbia, especially back in 1971, are just guessing.

You seem devoted to 'Cooper went into the Columbia' and yet you appeal to Jo-ism?

The preponderance of the evidence would seem to
select against a Columbia landing, Near the Columbia is a higher probability.

And there is nothing about the money find at Tina Bar which requires a Columbia landing or makes it
more probable (that I know of).

If money had turned up in Toledo would you require a Toledo landing!

If money did not turn up in Toledo would that require a Columbia landing?

As I read your many posts on this they seem to
boil down to two things:

a. the money found at Tina Bar.
b. Cooper vanished.

[snowmman 3]

georger said
"a. the money found at Tina Bar.
b. Cooper vanished."

If you're saying I'm saying you need to analyze money travel and Cooper travel separately. Yes.

Everyone kind of agreed it was unlikely, because of the half-baked bag+rope, that the two would stay together long.

Like Gordon Gekko told us, when he was investigating Cooper:

"You're walking around blind without a cane, pal. A fool and his money are lucky enough to get together in the first place."

[georger 244]

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link to another prior post I made referencing jumpers in the Columbia http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3480993;search_string=Longview;#3480993

So Tek was having issues at the time....

Do you know how many times a plane crash has been used for people wishing to escape from their current lifeinto a new one?


I notice most of the things you were talking about in there...were about the bodies being FOUND. If someone drowns.. yes they can be down for a while... especially when the water is cold.. but when it does warm up... the swell.. the float.. they wash up. Spring Chinook season can get interesting on the Willamette and the Columbia.

You probably know this but it takes a certain temp
before body tissues release gas (cell breakdown)..
cold water low oxy can preserve things a long time.