DB Cooper

[hangdiver 1]

Anyone, Bueller?

>edit for question mark

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[snowmman 3]

hangdiver "Maybe power over gravity I dunno?"

I would think, at least initially, there's that rush of getting over the fear of falling, which is one of the most primal things we're all born with.

Overcoming, controlling fear...
Then I would think it morphs into the pleasurable "oh look what I can do" after breaking thru a mental block, compared to "normal people"

plus there's a cool little subculture thing, there's cool gear, you're playing for keeps, and you stay alive thru using your brain..

yeah I can see it's addictive.
Too bad each jump is over so quick though. A lot of setup for quick buzzes.

[hangdiver 1]

If I have it figured out I know snowmman does too.

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[snowmman 3]

Quote

hangdiver said: "I'm thinking this post or the next is going to be top of page."

yeah you initially pulled high, but you got the canopy out, and got first post on the page, so I guess that's all that counts :)

(edit) hangdiver said "If I have it figured out I know snowmman does too. "

It's sort of like relative work, except everyone jumps and there's just one parachute. Then you see who gets it....hmm I guess it's hard to hold the formation when everyone knows once it's done there's just one chute. Tests commitment.

[hangdiver 1]

>Overcoming, controlling fear...
Then I would think it morphs into the pleasurable "oh look what I can do" after breaking thru a mental block, compared to "normal people"

When I was instructing it was much easier generally to teach females than males. Males tend to muscle things like a helicopter beating the air into submission.

Females on the other hand have more finesse, less over control and the ability to relax.
learning to jump is more about relaxing than seeing how hard you can flap your arms.

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[snowmman 3]

orange1 lobbied for statistics with "i mean, it's a bit like your newspaper doesn't run a headline of "98000 cars drove without incident today"... "


yeah, whenever I drive my car thru a flooded street, I always ask what the average depth of the water is. Is there a problem with that?

Dismissing the outlier cases is fine, unless for some reason, you're the outlier case. Then it's a 100% certainty.

So: have to decide where your dart is going to be relative to the target and what you do to hit the target, right? And it's all about "you" ..not some statistical horde.

If you're saying "it's random, you have no say in the matter"...well then it's just dumb.

[snowmman 3]

I mean, just recognizing that the process is a bit flawed, and so are the instructors, who also could be burned out on running the cattle call thru the program, or just be off that day...

so at every step, you're basically on your own, regardless of the best intentions of the people grabbing on to you.

From reading posts and stuff, it seems like there's weird social dynamics, where everyone wants it to be a team thing etc. but it's really an individual thing..You fly or die alone, when it comes down to it.

[hangdiver 1]

>but it's really an individual thing..You fly or die alone, when it comes down to it.



Snowmman you'll do just fine.

Don't tell anyone and take a two week vacation to Skydive Arizona. I did and stayed there 3 1/2 years.

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[377 22]

Quote

I've been watching some of the AFF hell vids on youtube.

Didnt' Richard Branson of Virgin Airlines do an AFF from hell?

I heard he lawyered up to get it pulled off the Internet, but as Snow says, its too late once its on the net.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

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I've been known to drive a car out of a plane once also.

What car, what plane, how'd it go?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

Quote

My son just called as I was writing this post to tell me his girlfriend is in labor right now. I'm gonna be a grandpa, again. Damn I feel old.

Congrats Hangdiver!

BTW, is there a path from the maternity ward to the altar....or is your son a skydiver?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Quote

My son just called as I was writing this post to tell me his girlfriend is in labor right now. I'm gonna be a grandpa, again. Damn I feel old.

Congrats Hangdiver!

BTW, is there a path from the maternity ward to the alter....or is your son a skydiver?

377

Look who's talking! Is there a path to your kid talking English?

hmm...actually I wonder if he's brilliant..a couple million women who want to practice English with him ..."Oh yeah in the US, when we practice English, first we have to remove all binding garments...."

[snowmman 3]

If he tumbles, does that mean he's Cooper? (since Cooper tumbled, at least Ckret said so)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90yNsoCeORQ

[377 22]

Quote

Quote

Quote

My son just called as I was writing this post to tell me his girlfriend is in labor right now. I'm gonna be a grandpa, again. Damn I feel old.

Congrats Hangdiver!

BTW, is there a path from the maternity ward to the alter....or is your son a skydiver?

377

Look who's talking! Is there a path to your kid talking English?

hmm...actually I wonder if he's brilliant..a couple million women who want to practice English with him ..."Oh yeah in the US, when we practice English, first we have to remove all binding garments...."

Snow,

Those old pickup lines dont work any more.

It is all complicated now, lots of Twittering, Facebook, texting. sexting, etc.

I wonder if the new protocols decrease unwanted pregnancies? Any stats on that Orange?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

Quote

If he tumbles, does that mean he's Cooper? (since Cooper tumbled, at least Ckret said so)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90yNsoCeORQ

Branson was never a loadmaster with ties to McChord. Rules him out.

There was something to be said about the old style solo FF training.

Nobody could really say much about bad jumpmastering cause the jumpmaster was nowhere near.

AFF just put jumpmasters right in the line of critical fire.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

Snow on AFF:

Quote

so at every step, you're basically on your own, regardless of the best intentions of the people grabbing on to you.

We have to adopt this into the liability waiver text. Forget all the legalese.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Snow on AFF:

Quote

so at every step, you're basically on your own, regardless of the best intentions of the people grabbing on to you.

We have to adopt this into the liability waiver text. Forget all the legalese.

377

:)

377 is right, I do try to be a nice guy.
But I remember once when it was difficult, and my friend was asking me to do something that would affect his safety, and I was just wiped out, and plus what he was asking for was just psychological anyhow....and I told him basically "If things go bad, you're just fucked".

Which isn't what he wanted to hear, and I've always regretted it. But at the time, I knew it really was what was needed..i.e. he had to know that he couldn't screw up, because there was no real backup plan. Anything incremental from me, was going to have no benefit to him.

I think that's one thing to watch out for when things get too social, it's easy to unconsciously think there's like all sorts of support..well there is, but not during the critical time..then you're alone. I think it's best to get used to thinking "it's all about me"

we're brought up not to think that..i.e. that it's all about the group...so I think it's a good thing to think thru what being selfish is about. Then it's much easier to make the tradeoffs when you're part of something where there's group responsibilities too, that you want to be part of.

You can make a strong group out of strong self-focused individuals. Its not mutually exclusive.

(edit) maybe it's all just a paraphase of what airtwardo said a while back, about timing for the good lord to take a shit if he wanted to.

I guess it's all the same thing.

[hangdiver 1]

>What car, what plane, how'd it go?

I think it's in Joe Jennings "The Good Stuff". Out of a Skyvan and only eight seconds in the car. I could have stayed longer but when the guy with experience left I followed. It really never did settle down. I could have gone one more time but gave my slot to another. After watching the video I felt more lucky than skilled. When you see your closing pin bouncing off ever thing, in slow motion, reality kicks in. Turns out I made the right call. The guys that went got beat up pretty good.

>Congrats Hangdiver!

BTW, is there a path from the maternity ward to the altar....or is your son a skydiver?

Thanks, last I heard still in labor. As far as the alter what ever makes them happy. I prefer to live in sin, so I'm really not the one to ask about that. He has a few jumps all military static line.

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[hangdiver 1]

>I wonder if the new protocols decrease unwanted pregnancies? Any stats on that Orange?

Who said anything about unwanted pregnancies?
Not saying he wasn't an internet whore. I gave him the talk, if your going into battle wear your armor.

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[hangdiver 1]

>"If things go bad, you're just fucked"

Like 377 said the static line progression after five stable exits on the static line you just started freefall. You were dead unless you did something yourself and saved your own life. Now really all you have are two baby sitters. You still are ultimately responsible for your own life.
Call it selfish or self preservation but if your going to save someone else, first you have to save yourself. There have been instructors bounce with their students.
There is protocol that should be followed in any sport like rock climbing, Ice climbing and mountain climbing. There can be a condition where you cut your climbing partner away to save yourself. I guess it happens.

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[airtwardo 7]

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hey twardo...nice to see you round
with you and amazon here this feels almost like a 'real" dz forum at the moment

It's 'cause we're gettin' paid for our input...plain brown envelope post marked from Tahiti....comes packed with cash, ~ all old 20's.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[airtwardo 7]

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>"If things go bad, you're just fucked"

Like 377 said the static line progression after five stable exits on the static line you just started freefall. You were dead unless you did something yourself and saved your own life. Now really all you have are two baby sitters

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Yeah Buddy!
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3745669#3745669

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[snowmman 3]

I didn't understand half of it, but I can appreciate a professional rant when I see one...:) (edit) I liked it airtwardo, if you can't tell..maybe that's bad though!

it deserves reposting:

airtwardo, in full-on rant mode, with no canopy, going in because he feels like it, yelling with his last breath:


"Why if you board short wearin', spike hair gellin', pink gear jumpin' spoiled lil' brats ever got more than elbow deep into the asshole of the beast, you'd be Sumo slammed into the realization that the path was blazed and black-topped for your comfort & ease by a generation of jumpers firmly believing there's no such thing as 'automatic openers' or TOO MUCH VELCRO.

The reason we made the damn thing easy enough for ya to cake walk through is because we did the math, between the booze the drugs and the gutter sluts we were gang bangin' after hours out in the peas.
...we figured the Skydiving version of generation next would either be sporting too many fingers or too little brains to keep 'our' sport alive, you better thank GOD we took the time to it dumb it up, because I'm here to tell ya ~ ~ though clearly much has changed around here, it ain't the gloves!

So go ahead Skippy, shun the wisdom and choose not to follow the path of righteousness and safe travel...instead blindly continue to toggle whip your ever decreasing numbers, natural selection will as always prevail.

With age comes experience, knowledge and understanding, we can see now where we went wrong...we watch feigning interest, - and with few real expectations, we wait.

We know eventually all the ponds will be drained, the snot-rag sized canopies will go the way of the T-bow and the sport's evolution will take still a different direction.

Next time we won't make it so easy for the N00bs, that way maybe they'll live a little longer...or at least lose the limp!"


and from another poster in that thread, this was interesting insight:


I saw an experienced jumper at our dz in '99 pull low after a 4-way. He was really jazzed on landing and told me he and his team mate did this sometimes but this was unusually intense. Then his team mate walked over with huge eyes and said "Did you see that?! I had a hard pull and thought I wasn't going to get it!" My friend got pale after he realized he was having a low pull contest with someone experiencing a malfunction.

I have always tried to remember what I learned that day about perception and reality.

[377 22]

Still don't know about what makes a good post, but man what a fine RANT.

We early skydivers sound so cool in that rant. We look cooler in our own hindsight than we really were. It was just how jumping WAS back then. We didn't know what lay ahead and how primitive our gear was in comparison.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Still don't know about what makes a good post, but man what a fine RANT..

377

I think whenever there's a rant needed on any thread, you just need to post something like "airtwardo 6" and everyone will know it off by heart...no one can put them together better anyhow.

"Yeah and your post is definitely OT ..airtwardo 9 to you, buddy!"