DB Cooper

[377 22]

Quote

Right now these books are very SPECIFIC to Flight 305 - because of the origins of the books. Since Nov. 24 1971 was a traditional
Holiday wk-end - I HAVE ever reason to believe Tina or a passenger carried these book on board.

I see NOTHING connecting the Tina book to NW Flt 305.

What am I missing????

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Quote

Right now these books are very SPECIFIC to Flight 305 - because of the origins of the books. Since Nov. 24 1971 was a traditional
Holiday wk-end - I HAVE ever reason to believe Tina or a passenger carried these book on board.

I see NOTHING connecting the Tina book to NW Flt 305.

What am I missing????

377

The origins and limited publication of both books...and the age...and the enquiries made by passengers or on behalf of passengers about belongings never being returned.
If Cooper did not touch the overheads - there would be NO reason for the FBI in fingerprint items in those locations or to confiscate any of the items belonging to the passengers.

Also the discrepancies and inconsistency of the bag description and the likely-hood of the FBI not complying with Cooper's request. The white bank bag with a drawstring was a sutle delay tactic - but, it back fired after Cooper took note of this and allowed the passengers and crew to leave. Cooper was resourceful and so was Tina...

The FBI expected him to become disoriented about the bag - but that didn't happen. He made do and was NOT foolish enough to jump with a thin unsecured bank bag.....

I will note that Weber was always observant of everthing and everyone around him at all times in our yrs. together. He saw that bag come on board and knew the person DID not take it forward with them. Perhaps Tina opened the overhead cabinets to check for the belongings of passengers after they went forward...this is routine. She would have been checking those overheads before they landed in Seattle. Weber never missed things like that...probably looking for something he could steal - this I would gather after finding out about his records.

I asked the FBI yrs ago if the witnesses had observed such a trait in Cooper - this very alert and keen watching of people and circumstances and things going on around him. Now in retrospect I can anwer that question myself - he was a THIEF.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Quote

Right now these books are very SPECIFIC to Flight 305 - because of the origins of the books. Since Nov. 24 1971 was a traditional
Holiday wk-end - I HAVE ever reason to believe Tina or a passenger carried these book on board.

I see NOTHING connecting the Tina book to NW Flt 305.

What am I missing????

377

Explain why a waterstained picture of someone who looks like Tina, covered in plastic, is on the cover of that book, then? And why the FBI won't investigate that? (did we straighten out whether it was spiral bound? I forget. If metal spiral bound, was there any rust?)

[snowmman 3]

Jo reported "The author told me she used the name Tina because she liked the name."

So you decided the book was about Tina the stewardess, because the book had the name Tina in it?

[snowmman 3]

hangdiver said "I have a cousin who is a Columbia River pilot. I haven't spoken to him in some time but should ask him on his opinion on Cooper landing in the river and never being found. He could probably also confirm or deny the propeller snag theory. "

Yeah, that would be cool. Any first hand knowledge about seeing garbage floating in the Columbia too. What kind? logs/brush..any newspaper or other human trash?

Hmm...ranger connection..columbia river boat pilot connection..you're implicating yourself pretty deep hangdiver.

[snowmman 3]

I can't figure out which is more God.

[SKYWHUFFO 1]

there were two other stewardress that were released. Has anyone ever spoke to or seen any info from these two regarding the case? I don't think i have ever seen their names but once and i don't even remember them. I have never seen this info angle presented and have often wondered what the other two saw. They had to at least see Cooper when they were leaving the plane because they would have been clued into what was going on by the other crew. OR was this the time he was in the lavatory? Hope sombody can answer these i have often wandered

[snowmman 3]

downstream ( :) )
it would be cool if Bruce interviewed the dredge guys there. I think the same dredge that was used in '76 (was that the year, forget) is still there.

be nice to talk about:
30" pump?
what it can pass (was Tosaw accurate in his descriptio)
the blades used (I posted a current picture of the cutter blades..were those used in '76? also rpm of the cutter blades..and whether the cutter blades are ever not used? depends on river bottom?

also: was bottom in that area all clay and sand...no rock?

was any hopper dredge ever used? (in '76)

The CSG was looking at doing this, but they're all splayed out on a couch, with a lot of smoke hanging over them...they're bullshitting about skydiving and saying stuff like "just go with the wind man...mellow out"

[snowmman 3]

Quote

there were two other stewardress that were released. Has anyone ever spoke to or seen any info from these two regarding the case? I don't think i have ever seen their names but once and i don't even remember them. I have never seen this info angle presented and have often wondered what the other two saw. They had to at least see Cooper when they were leaving the plane because they would have been clued into what was going on by the other crew. OR was this the time he was in the lavatory? Hope sombody can answer these i have often wandered

their names and pictures were posted back in the thread.

[377 22]

Quote

Interesting article on piloting the Columbia River, info about tide, currents, "bank effect" etc. Georger should like this.

The Columbia River is a big deal to mariners, especially at the mouth where a sandbar and big ocean swells can combine to produce deadly "bar breaks." Many ships and boats have come to grief there and the loss of life over the last two centuries is staggering.

The Bar Pilots and River Pilots are two separate entities. Check out the photos on the Bar Pilots website. I have crossed the Columbia Bar in iffy conditions and it is waaaay scarier than skydiving. No reserve, no AAD.

http://www.columbiariverbarpilots.com/

Be sure to read the attached article. Any comments on its contents Georger? Tom?

377

see post 12332 for scans of river pilot article:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3647789#3647789

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Jo reported "The author told me she used the name Tina because she liked the name."

So you decided the book was about Tina the stewardess, because the book had the name Tina in it?

Bull, I only posted a picture of the little girl's photo (a photo what was use maybe as a book marker). The photo was NOT part of the book. It was Sluggo that said it looked like Tina. I did not connect Tina until that time and picture of Tina was posted. There was speculation at that time, because the text of the book was "righteous" in its context.

The recent research this was a result of finding the author had mention an individual by the name of Tina. The most recent research and speaking with the author resulted in my finding that Tina was just a name she liked. I did not ask her if she knew someone named Tina.

Go back to the date of the pictures of the child and then go forward and keep the sequences straight rather than try to create chaos...and your own interpretation.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

Jo said "It was Sluggo that said it looked like Tina."

Sluggo was involved in the book hijacking? Sluggo doesn't post here any more. It's unclear why. There was a gorilla involved. The book is not about gorillas.

(edit) Jo said "I did not ask her if she knew someone named Tina. "

??? why not? Considering what you ask the FBI, I would think knowing whether she knew someone named Tina would be equally important. It would clear up a lot of questions about Duane and his book habits. Or Kool Aid habits.

[snowmman 3]

Jo said "Go back to the date of the pictures of the child and then go forward and keep the sequences straight rather than try to create chaos"

I apologize for my chaos creation. Ignore anything I said, and let the preceding state of affairs return (the non-chaotic state of affairs).

Now about that bag. How long did it float?

[377 22]

Snow wrote:

Quote

I apologize for my chaos creation.

Never thought I'd live to see the day.

Jo, your turn. Will you apologize for making statements about having proof that Duane was Cooper or knew Cooper?

I apologize for everything that was rude or abrasive about you here. You said it wasn't Snow so it had to be me or perhaps Orange or Georger... but I'll take all the blame.

I am literally baffled at how you can think that Tina book is likely to have been on NWA Flt 305. Aren't you substituting wishes for facts? Your mind really works differently than most.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Snow wrote:

Quote

I apologize for my chaos creation.

Never thought I'd live to see the day.

Jo, your turn. Will you apologize for making statements about having proof that Duane was Cooper or knew Cooper?

I apologize for everything that was rude or abrasive about you here. You said it wasn't Snow so it had to be me or perhaps Orange or Georger... but I'll take all the blame.

I am literally baffled at how you can think that Tina book is likely to have been on NWA Flt 305. Aren't you substituting wishes for facts? Your mind really works differently than most.

377

I said I apologize for my chaos creation. I didn't define the scope of it. So far, I think it just covers the quesiton of Tina and the book. I am sorry for all the unnecessary investigative work I triggered as a result of Tina's book nonpresence as not reported by Jo but by Sluggo who probably didn't say that exactly anyhow. Although apparently the book still connects Duane and Flight 305. And Duane is God so that should not be unexpected.

Got it?

[377 22]

The Prince of Entropy and CSG czar said:

Quote

I said I apologize for my chaos creation. I didn't define the scope of it...Got it?

Got it!

Google Books failed to copy the Tina book.

Proof of a cover up. The FBI refuses to investigate.

I saw District Nine again. I would expect that Snow would like it even with the heavy handed plot.

I really liked Dsitrict Nine but Blade Runner is still at the top of my sci fi movie list. It has some subtle nuances, a rare commodity in films of this genere.

Avatar's special effects and 3D rock, but the plot is kinda trite. I need to see it now in IMAX. I am a special effects junkie.

I want some Cooper science. Give some to me.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

I am literally baffled at how you can think that Tina book is likely to have been on NWA Flt 305. Aren't you substituting wishes for facts? Your mind really works differently than most.

377

I do not believe I am substituting wishes for facts.

Remember that NO one for yrs even considered these books I had, but they continued to haunt me and then I started to really look at them. At first it was just me trying to find what Duane's connection to the books was. I thought may they had belonged to his wife, sister or mother and that maybe the picture was of his daughter or his sister as a child.

Had I not been told the relatives of someone on the plane had made an enquiry about some books that were not returned after the hijacking - they may have stayed on the shelf for the rest of my life.

Curiously I posted the pic of the child and mentioned the books.
Then recently I decided to research the backgrounds of those 2 books rather than to just speculate on their meaning. I EXPECTED to find they belonged to Duane's mother or sister or ex-wife - that was quickly ruled out due to dates and origins.

Before I knew it I was on the chase - then found what I have reported about the 1st book. Today I found the author of the second book and its origin. I will be talking to her in the next couple of days as she has just recently had surgery..and did not feel like trying to talk at that time. This woman lives in Oregon and her location in Oregon gave me goose bumps! I expect I will have to take a pill to sleep tonight...the anticipation is going to be high and the expectations, but I will report back to the forum only the truth as I have with the first book.

What do I know about the books so far.

1. Subject matter was not one Duane had knowledge or interest in, but is an item handed down to a family member.

2. Number of copies publish is very low.

3. They are specialized books.

4. They did NOT come from Duane or his wife or the family.

5. Question - what was Duane's obsession with these books? Why would he caution me to be very careful when he noted I was reading one of them a couple of yrs after he brought them into the house? It was at that time I asked who the little girl was - and he said it was just a picture.

6. Outside of disclosing the books and the authors you know what I know for now.


You asked why I put them on flight 305? You would have to be me to read between the lines, so I guess you are right - my mind works differently - perhaps because I knew Weber and you guys didn't. Hell, I had to be "different" to have swallowed his lies all of those yrs and not see thru his deceptions.

I do hope the author can shed some light on this book and offer an explanation that makes some sense...but I have a GUT feeling what she will tell me will only ADD to the mystery - simply because of where she lives. When I found it on the map it gave me quiet a start.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

sometimes I lie awake at night, wondering like Jo "what was Duane's obsession with these books"...these damn books...visions of them come to me in the dark. ...Out, Out damned books..


Much I marvelled this ungainly book to deliver discourse so plainly,
Though its answers little meaning - little relevancy bore;
For we cannot help agreeing that no living human being
Ever yet was blessed with seeing this book of gore -
Bound or not, Tina's tainted picture upon the cover tore,
Whispering the name: `Dan Cooper.' and more.


But the book, sitting lonely on the library shelf, spoke only,
Those two words, as if it's soul in those words it did outpour.
Nothing further then it uttered - not a page then it fluttered -
Till I scarcely more than muttered `Other friends have posted before -
On the morrow it will leave me be, as my hopes have flown before.'
Then the book said, `Duane Weber' and more.

[snowmman 3]

Attached is the 12 oz, aluminum, flat top Coors can that I believe was drunk from by Cooper on Flight 305.

You can see it was opened with a church key.

Contrary to my earlier research, Coors was available in aluminum cans in 1971, although somewhat rare. So this confirms my initial suspicions about this can.

Either Cooper, or maybe another passenger, ordered it, and maybe Cooper drank from it.

(edit) I'm theorizing about why a certain person was so interested in this can.

[snowmman 3]

Apparently Coors was the first beer to use an "all-aluminum two-piece beverage can"...Coors introduced their aluminum can, on Jan 22, 1959.

Beer had been available in cans since 1935, but the cans were made of steel, which left a metallic taste and created a large disposal problem.

The use of aluminum cans made it possible for Coors to no longer pasteurize its beer.

Today, Coors owns and helps operate the nation's largest aluminum can manufacturing plant, in Golden, Colorado.

It's known as "The Coors Can Manufacturing Plant".

About 130 billion cans are produced per year by the industry, with this plant producing 4 billion cans a year.

By switching the paints used in printing on the cans, to a lead-based toxic paint from China, Snowmman Industries was able to siphon $20 Million from the books of The Coors Can Manufacturing Plant, which was used to build a skydiving tunnel in South Africa.

(edit) that first can was only 7oz and in 8-packs. Coors brought someone over from German in 1957 who had been working on an extruded aluminum can. They worked out the problems and got the two piece can done by 1959.

377 can vouch for the importance of the aluminum can. I'm impressed that Coors was not worried about the initial 7 oz. limit. He had a vision and stuck to it. (Bill Coors who headed the company at that time).

(edit) picture of Bill Coors with the small can. Attached.

(edit) The German was named Ruben Hartmeister.

Hartmeister "had no idea what he was doing." But Hartmeister - who died in 2007 at age 96 - had a "passion for experimentation."

"After several months of tinkering, Hartmeister came to Bill's office with a crude aluminum can," Baum wrote. "Bill carried it around the brewery like the grail of Christ ."

from http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2009/jan/22/a-golden-milestone/


(edit) "The work of Bill Coors and Ruben Hartmeister eventually rendered the entire steel beverage-can industry obsolete"
http://www.contextmag.com/archives/200004/BookExcerpt.asp?process=print


So I ask: Was Duane Weber involved?

(edit) * 1959: Modern Metals magazine names Bill Coors "Man of the Year" for the aluminum can.

(edit) In 1959, Coors promised a penny for every can returned

[snowmman 3]

from http://www.contextmag.com/archives/200004/BookExcerpt.asp?process=print

When a character named Lou Bronstein showed up in Bill’s office in 1954, suggesting that beer cans could be made of aluminum, Bill’s first impulse was to have him ejected from the brewery. Bronstein was, as Bill later put it, "the antithesis of Coors, a fly-by-night," a fast-talking operator in a shiny suit. He reeked of the East Coast.

In fact, Bronstein was born in Vienna to a wealthy Jewish family. His father, a physician, wanted his son to follow him into medicine, but young Bronstein was, as a colleague remembered him, "too nervous to be a doctor," the kind of man who is forever remembering what he was going to say a few minutes ago.

Instead of wanting to be a doctor, Bronstein wanted to be a deal-maker and make his millions the easy way. By all accounts, though, Bronstein’s father had exerted every bit as much patriarchal authority as had the elder Coors men. Bronstein had trooped off to his premedical training with a heavy heart, knowing he’d been cowed into doing the wrong thing. It took Hitler to set him free.

Whether he was eager to slip his father’s leash or was smart enough to see what was in store for Viennese Jews, or both, Bronstein left Europe relatively early—early enough to have become a U.S. citizen in time to enlist in the U.S. Army after Pearl Harbor.

He fought with Gen. George Patton from North Africa all the way up the Italian boot. It was awful, but Bronstein used the battles as an all-expenses-paid research trip to explore potential products and markets. He came away unwounded and completely devoted to the consumer potential of aluminum.

What first caught his eye were the clever little drinking cups Italian soldiers carried—so light, so durable, so pleasant in the hand. Bronstein bought thousands of them right after the war and sold out of them immediately in New York.

The experience taught him that people love the feathery gray metal, and that he had the chance to be in on the ground floor of a multibillion-dollar aluminum craze. Pots, pans, doorknobs, bicycles, auto frames...almost anything made of steel could be made stronger and lighter from aluminum.

The giant British aluminum company Alcan Aluminium apparently thought the market was about to erupt, too; it had just built a behemoth of an aluminum plant in British Columbia that was far too big for current demand. Knowing Alcan would be looking for customers, Bronstein convinced the company to let him act as a kind of broker; if he lined up enough customers for its aluminum,

Alcan would guarantee them a low price. Now Bronstein was traveling the country, supply in hand, looking for demand. He’d already been to see a friend of Bill’s, who had sent him to Bill.

"Hiya Bill," Bronstein said, lowering himself into a chair before being asked. Whatever Viennese elegance Bronstein had once possessed was long gone.

He lit a cigarette and looked around for an ashtray, but because smoking was forbidden in the brewery there was none. Cupping his palm under the ash, he tried a few raunchy jokes on Bill and got a stony silence in return. Then he plunged into his pitch.

"A couple of little kraut breweries use aluminum beer cans, but the process is clumsy and too expensive for mass production," he said, talking about six times faster than Bill was used to.

An operator like Bronstein was repellent to Bill Coors. But in his extended pitch, Bronstein had unwittingly struck several of Bill’s chords. Bill told himself to put aside his dislike of the man’s style. He did what checking he could and finally agreed to form a small partnership under the grandiose title of Aluminum International.

Bill would put up a little money, and Bronstein would be his tour guide through the world of aluminum. Bill consented to go with Bronstein on a five-week research tour through Europe at Coors’s expense.

On the airplane east, Bronstein confided that he had several ex-wives after him for alimony, which explained their odd travel arrangements:
Bronstein had them entering and leaving each country through different cities.

The trip was a nightmare for Bill: cramped quarters, inadequate exercise, fatty food, and confinement with the windbag Bronstein. But Bronstein delivered. He knew the people to see, the can plants to visit, the laboratories to plumb for information. As they hopped from Frankfurt to Stuttgart to Mainz,

Bill grew increasingly excited. Every aluminum can the Germans made cost them 25 cents. Bill’s mind whirred in tune with the machinery as he calculated costs. Coors could make its own aluminum cans, he thought, and could do it cheaper than the Germans.

Bill wrote check after check for used presses, printers, washers, casting lines, and trimmers. He ordered them to be shipped to Golden posthaste, not knowing how all the machinery would fit together. When he got home, he confidently told his family it would take no more than half a year and another $250,000 to begin producing aluminum cans for Coors beer.

He approached Alcoa about forming a partnership, but Alcoa told Bill he was dreaming. Nobody can profitably make beverage cans out of aluminum, Alcoa told him, especially not a third-string beer-maker in Colorado.

Bill filed away the insult and pushed forward. His grandfather had made malt, ice, and bottles at a time when other brewers stuck only to beer. Why shouldn’t he make his own cans?

Bill needed an experienced aluminum engineer to launch his grand project. He did not, however, conduct a nationwide search for the best man; he simply opened the Denver Yellow Pages, where, down among the small print, he found the name Ruben Hartmeister.

Hartmeister was a skinny, balding, and bespectacled man who was slowly going broke in his own small machine shop.

Early in his career, Hartmeister had worked in an aluminum rolling mill. He told Bill he’d been raised by a Lutheran minister and would be able to read the German manuals that would accompany the machinery.

He also modestly mentioned that his grandfather was the inventor of Beech-Nut chewing tobacco.

[snowmman 3]

This was on the E channel
20 Shocking Unsolved Crimes

Cooper was the 2nd half after the Anthrax guy.
Start at 4:37 on this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1dlOZQZkog

New expert witness is revealed:
Rachael Bell
Criminologist and Forensic Therapist
Tosaw is there too.

Here's the nice thing
Better video of the money. Better than I've seen before.
Also better video of the money dig in 1980
that starts at 7:29
It's really nice. I'll post some snaps

Better video of the backhoe digging also (you can see it is green..a John Deere? )

Remember also, when they posted the ad for the ransom of Adolph Coors, when Corbett asked for a tractor ad, the ad they placed was for a John Deere tractor (they are green).

[snowmman 3]

attached

[snowmman 3]

These look somewhat like snaps we have from before.
but there are some slightly better looks at the money in color and the dig site that have not been seen before.

It's not much..blurry because it's video..but interesting.

it's probably one of the fazios sitting on the tractor.

(edit) in 1980 people dig 3, you can see other small bits of wood debris in the sand where they are digging

Also at 1980 money dig site 1.

(edit) if you download them, you can click on them so you get a viewer that lets you zoom in to get a bigger picture

[snowmman 3]

the end of the backhoe in the sand.