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snowmman 3
QuoteQuoteI thought you were an engineer? Why do you need a social anthropologist turned physicist to solvethis for you?
I only know electronics, LORAN, GPS jammers etc You are more of a big picture guy G. Besides I did really poorly in statistics. I got a good grade but I had no idea how to use the teachings. My prof used to post absurd trick stat arguments like proving black is white etc and I could never see the trick.
If you left the particle analysis to me I might accidently conclude that it was all from a bag tossed off a bridge by Duane. I am confident you'd not let that happen.
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Hey this is the USA dammit. A poor paintball gun designer can dream of breaking a big FBI case. A social anthropologist turned physicist can do the same.
Unless Jay Leno wants to do it. Then you're screwed.
Maybe the object lesson of the Cooper case is age old:
"If you meet Buddha in the road, kill him"
i.e.
Whatever your conception is of the Buddha, it’s WRONG! Now kill that image and keep practicing. This all has to do with the idea that reality is an impermanent illusion. If you believe that you have a correct image of what it means to be Enlightened, then you need to throw out (kill) that image and keep meditating.
Could that Buddha be you yourself, having reached Enlightenment?
http://www.dailybuddhism.com/archives/670
snowmman 3
georger said "What we have here is an extremely strong circumstantial case complete with witnesses which a little physics will make even stronger. "
yes, the latest witness is the strongest and most credible (plus he headed up the norjak investigation post Himmelsbach, which really started with the money find. H. wasn't involved because he was retiring in just days!)
We had an earlier FBI agent who found money but he only had minimal info.
We have Fazio, right? talking about shards.
We have the Seattle head of the FBI being quoted about more fragments found, within days of the money find. This is pre-internet. So no email. He probably got a phone call, since mail would be slower? He didn't read it in the papers and regurgitate it to reporters.
So there's a whole bunch of aligning information.
The only unaligned information is from Ckret.
yes, the latest witness is the strongest and most credible (plus he headed up the norjak investigation post Himmelsbach, which really started with the money find. H. wasn't involved because he was retiring in just days!)
We had an earlier FBI agent who found money but he only had minimal info.
We have Fazio, right? talking about shards.
We have the Seattle head of the FBI being quoted about more fragments found, within days of the money find. This is pre-internet. So no email. He probably got a phone call, since mail would be slower? He didn't read it in the papers and regurgitate it to reporters.
So there's a whole bunch of aligning information.
The only unaligned information is from Ckret.
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Quotei.e.
Whatever your conception is of the Buddha, it’s WRONG! Now kill that image and keep practicing. This all has to do with the idea that reality is an impermanent illusion. If you believe that you have a correct image of what it means to be Enlightened, then you need to throw out (kill) that image and keep meditating.
Could that Buddha be you yourself, having reached Enlightenment?
I think Snow may be using this forum as a practice site. His goal is eventually forming a cult. Lots of money in that game. Look at L. Ron Hubbard, Rajneesh, Maharishi, Werner Erhard, etc.
Talk about money for nuthin and chicks for free... Those guys wrote the damn book.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
snowmman 3
QuoteQuotei.e.
Whatever your conception is of the Buddha, it’s WRONG! Now kill that image and keep practicing. This all has to do with the idea that reality is an impermanent illusion. If you believe that you have a correct image of what it means to be Enlightened, then you need to throw out (kill) that image and keep meditating.
Could that Buddha be you yourself, having reached Enlightenment?
I think Snow may be using this forum as a practice site. His goal is eventually forming a cult. Lots of money in that game. Look at L. Ron Hubbard, Rajneesh, Maharishi, Werner Erhard, etc.
Talk about money for nuthin and chicks for free... Those guys wrote the damn book.
377
Yup.
You can picture my infomercials on late nite tv already.
Think of the late, great, pitchman Billy Mays bellowing:
"Using the proven "Cheat To Win (tm) philosophies, you too can do things like:
-crack 40-year old unsolved FBI cases
-get South African skydivers to jump with you
-jump from planes without a parachute
-get free drinks in a bar
-sing like Frank Sinatra
Call now. Operators are standing by"
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Cooper Money HAIKU:
Peaceful rest river floor
sucking monster screaching lift
pieces sandy cloud
377 San
Peaceful rest river floor
sucking monster screaching lift
pieces sandy cloud
377 San
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Quote
And by-the-by, Jo Weber's case is now HISTORY! Her lies have been revealed. Her case is closed!
My My how you do jump to conclusions! Perhaps you should pick up the phone and do exactly what I did to day. Call Himmelsbach.
Himmelsbach stated there was no briefcase or pieces of briefcase found.
Tosaw talked to the detectives and FBI - and to Ingram. The money was just below the surface and there was no other money found other than what has been reported...other than what may have separated from the one bundle which had lost its rubber band.
======================
QuoteNo doubnt Jo Weber will nowcome here with a post
ten miles long full of redm black red, green, purple,
and blue CAPITOL LETTERS...
Only to tell you - you are making a bigger FOOL out of yourself than I ever made. At least I have held my ground on my story - explored, but always went back to the basics. Yesterday I was preparing some things to send to XXXXXXX, when I found something - The FBI agents screwed up with Duane's prison records - they didn't try to find out how he got from A to C and what happened to B. A piece information Doug acquired explained it - no one looked at the date or had the information provided by the family until a later date. Therefore the FBI DID NOT do a good check of Weber's past.
Will what they missed put him in that plane or in a chute? I put him in a chute and then they tell me I have to put him on the Plane - now go figure!
By the way Georger I have only told a couple of very little WHITE lies to protect other people in relating what I know and was told and saw and learned.
As far as a debris field - I know that answer - but pick up the phone and call him or even Ingram - he was just a kid, but he might be a better witness than an FBI agent who is rambling at best...perhaps pulling Bruce's leg just a little.
Did you read Tosaw's book?
Did you read the Palmer Report?
Did you talk to Himmelsbach?
Where you there in 1971?
NO briefcase and the debris field was less than 20Ft. Considering Brian had already brought the money to the surface - and a couple of days before the FBI converged on the area - that would explain the 20 ft debris area. NO MONEY was found outside of that area.
You aren't contributing to the Hunt for D.B. Cooper, but you are contributing to the Proliferation of Myths: D.B.Cooper
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
snowmman 3
Jo ranted "As far as a debri field - I know that answer - but pick up the phone and call him or even Ingram -"
Why would Himmelsbach know everything about the FBI dig? (more so then the guy running Norjak post Himmelsbach)
Himmelsbach is much older than Dorwin. Why would Himmelsbach memory be sharper than Dorwin's? Remember Himmelsbach also likes the Washougal.
Why would Brian Ingram?
Why would Jo Weber?
Jo Weber can not be Buddha. If Jo Weber is Buddha, well I don't want to be part of this world.
Jo Weber the evidence techician reported "that would explain the 20 ft debris area."
I think Himmelsbach never accepted that he was never part of the post-money-find stuff.
Jo, where did you get this 20 ft number?
If you had this number before, why didn't you report it before?
Why would Himmelsbach know everything about the FBI dig? (more so then the guy running Norjak post Himmelsbach)
Himmelsbach is much older than Dorwin. Why would Himmelsbach memory be sharper than Dorwin's? Remember Himmelsbach also likes the Washougal.
Why would Brian Ingram?
Why would Jo Weber?
Jo Weber can not be Buddha. If Jo Weber is Buddha, well I don't want to be part of this world.
Jo Weber the evidence techician reported "that would explain the 20 ft debris area."
I think Himmelsbach never accepted that he was never part of the post-money-find stuff.
Jo, where did you get this 20 ft number?
If you had this number before, why didn't you report it before?
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To my mind we really did have currency shards, lots of em, with a dispersion pattern making a dredge deposit the only rational transport explanation.
Hey, we moved a step forward. I am also beginning to think we might rule out all those Cooper wannabes who were allegedly spending big unexplainable amounts of cash post Norjack. The money went in the drink.
Cooper probably did too, but we have no proof yet.
I REALLY want to know if that briefcase piece recovery story is true. The briefcase sure makes more sense as a money bag that a jury rigged pouch fashioned from a reserve rig.
If Cooper did go into the river I'll bet it was as a no pull. If the canopy were open it would have been far more likely to have been found or wash up or eventually snag somewhere visible.
If he tied the briefcase to him he would have tumbled wildly after exiting and probably been unable to stabilize. The flailing briefcase could have even knocked him out if it collided with his unprotected head.
What a horrible night for Cooper. At best he landed alive without the money and at worst he drowned or died from impact.
It's enough to have turned a living Cooper into an eccentric frugal old hermit with a big grudge, with memories of a freezing trudge along the banks of the Columbia, shivering broke and hurting.
377
Hey, we moved a step forward. I am also beginning to think we might rule out all those Cooper wannabes who were allegedly spending big unexplainable amounts of cash post Norjack. The money went in the drink.
Cooper probably did too, but we have no proof yet.
I REALLY want to know if that briefcase piece recovery story is true. The briefcase sure makes more sense as a money bag that a jury rigged pouch fashioned from a reserve rig.
If Cooper did go into the river I'll bet it was as a no pull. If the canopy were open it would have been far more likely to have been found or wash up or eventually snag somewhere visible.
If he tied the briefcase to him he would have tumbled wildly after exiting and probably been unable to stabilize. The flailing briefcase could have even knocked him out if it collided with his unprotected head.
What a horrible night for Cooper. At best he landed alive without the money and at worst he drowned or died from impact.
It's enough to have turned a living Cooper into an eccentric frugal old hermit with a big grudge, with memories of a freezing trudge along the banks of the Columbia, shivering broke and hurting.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
snowmman 3
377 said "I REALLY want to know if that briefcase piece recovery story is true. The briefcase sure makes more sense as a money bag that a jury rigged pouch fashioned from a reserve rig."
it may be unanswerable. Remember Georger posted about other stuff they found in the sand? (I don't know where georger got that..the palmer report?)..he said cans (edit) see my next post for what georger posted. interesting detail about rusted stuff and variations in layers.
Maybe the "briefcase" turned out to be other random garbage? later disproved by FBI technicians maybe?
I'll search for georger's "cans" post.
it may be unanswerable. Remember Georger posted about other stuff they found in the sand? (I don't know where georger got that..the palmer report?)..he said cans (edit) see my next post for what georger posted. interesting detail about rusted stuff and variations in layers.
Maybe the "briefcase" turned out to be other random garbage? later disproved by FBI technicians maybe?
I'll search for georger's "cans" post.
snowmman 3
Jo posted the following, I think claiming georger posted it.
But I can't find the original georger post...maybe he deleted it.
That must have been what happened.
So georger, did you post the following from the Palmer report?
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3622324;search_string=%26quot%3Bgeologist%20palmer%20advises%26quot%3B;#3622324
misspellings like uppermpost make me think jo is quoting a georger post, also if you look at the link, she sounds like she was ranting to georger.
The fragment issue is answered with this summary you posted:
'Geologist Palmer advises that he found the beach area in the vicinity where the money was found to be in approximately four different layers.
The layers consisted of an upper sand layer, a post dredging sand layer, a clay lump (dredge) sand layer and below that an older sand layer.
The upper layer consisted. of six inches to eight inches of reworked beach sand and is the sand which contained the fragments and bundles of the recovered money. This sand also contained soda pop cans and other debris, which were not severely damaged and/or rusted.
This uppermpost layer is what I shall later describe as the 'upper active working layer' because it is most recent in aquisition showing signs of both acquisition and erosion, in the near term.
The post dredging sand layer under the upper active working layer contained older soda pop cans, rusted nails and spikes, and other older rusted artifacts, which were in a much more deteriorated condition indicative of their age compared to the upper active working layer. "
But I can't find the original georger post...maybe he deleted it.
That must have been what happened.
So georger, did you post the following from the Palmer report?
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3622324;search_string=%26quot%3Bgeologist%20palmer%20advises%26quot%3B;#3622324
misspellings like uppermpost make me think jo is quoting a georger post, also if you look at the link, she sounds like she was ranting to georger.
The fragment issue is answered with this summary you posted:
'Geologist Palmer advises that he found the beach area in the vicinity where the money was found to be in approximately four different layers.
The layers consisted of an upper sand layer, a post dredging sand layer, a clay lump (dredge) sand layer and below that an older sand layer.
The upper layer consisted. of six inches to eight inches of reworked beach sand and is the sand which contained the fragments and bundles of the recovered money. This sand also contained soda pop cans and other debris, which were not severely damaged and/or rusted.
This uppermpost layer is what I shall later describe as the 'upper active working layer' because it is most recent in aquisition showing signs of both acquisition and erosion, in the near term.
The post dredging sand layer under the upper active working layer contained older soda pop cans, rusted nails and spikes, and other older rusted artifacts, which were in a much more deteriorated condition indicative of their age compared to the upper active working layer. "
snowmman 3
I have posted about the dredging the Fazios did.
Maybe the above Palmer report is not consistent with the '74 dredge displacing the money, but IS consistent with the Fazio dredging displacing the money. (edit) I forget, but maybe we said Fazio didn't dredge as early as '74-'80. I don't remember the answer to that.
Maybe the above Palmer report is not consistent with the '74 dredge displacing the money, but IS consistent with the Fazio dredging displacing the money. (edit) I forget, but maybe we said Fazio didn't dredge as early as '74-'80. I don't remember the answer to that.
snowmman 3
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3229648;search_string=Fazio%20dredge%20winter;#3229648
this post included info from the guy living in a houseboat behind Caterpillar Island (recent)
he said
"Fazio dredges with an Auger suction dredge (do a wikipedia search) every winter (it's illegal to dredge after April 1st, salmon habitat and all). They pump the dredge spoils up onto the hill, so every year the sand increases, then decreases as the sand is trucked out."
Also, remember I posted how the Fazios got their dredging permit renewed recently. (updated to add below)
(edit) I had posted at
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3684983;search_string=fazio%20permit;#3684983
(source info is at the url)
"I was intrigued by the Fazio's dredging operations.
I found they had hired an environmental consultant to get their dredging access permit renewed recently.
They claimed they had been doing it since 1995. I don't know for sure when the earliest was.
But I found their dredging permit from 2004. (It expires at the end of Oct. this year)
There are 3 pages.
The second page has a picture of the exact location the dredge goes to. It's at the plume area in '74, that seemed to have runoff. Georger talked about this a lot apparently from info from Tom Kaye and Fazio.
It's right at the big sand hills, which you would expect. "
attached the permit thing again (2004)
this post included info from the guy living in a houseboat behind Caterpillar Island (recent)
he said
"Fazio dredges with an Auger suction dredge (do a wikipedia search) every winter (it's illegal to dredge after April 1st, salmon habitat and all). They pump the dredge spoils up onto the hill, so every year the sand increases, then decreases as the sand is trucked out."
Also, remember I posted how the Fazios got their dredging permit renewed recently. (updated to add below)
(edit) I had posted at
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3684983;search_string=fazio%20permit;#3684983
(source info is at the url)
"I was intrigued by the Fazio's dredging operations.
I found they had hired an environmental consultant to get their dredging access permit renewed recently.
They claimed they had been doing it since 1995. I don't know for sure when the earliest was.
But I found their dredging permit from 2004. (It expires at the end of Oct. this year)
There are 3 pages.
The second page has a picture of the exact location the dredge goes to. It's at the plume area in '74, that seemed to have runoff. Georger talked about this a lot apparently from info from Tom Kaye and Fazio.
It's right at the big sand hills, which you would expect. "
attached the permit thing again (2004)
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Jo wrote: ***I put him in a chute and then they tell me I have to put him on the Plane - now go figure!
REALLY? When? How? Proof?
377
REALLY? When? How? Proof?
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
snowmman 3
QuoteJo wrote: ***I put him in a chute and then they tell me I have to put him on the Plane - now go figure!
REALLY? When? How? Proof?
377
I think they said they wanted "Proof" and Jo heard "Poof" and said "I have evidence of Poof!"
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QuoteI was intrigued by the Fazio's dredging operations.
I found they had hired an environmental consultant to get their dredging access permit renewed recently.
We better be careful not to screw up their dredging permits. Those old military bailout rigs had a thick plating of Cadmium on the hardware. Can't be grinding up toxic heavy metals in a salmon river. Maybe Jerry can be a consultant and offer compelling evidence that the Cadmium is in the Death Woods not in the river.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
snowmman 3
Jo the money fragment dispersal expert reported:
"Considering Brian had already brought the money to the surface - and a couple of days before the FBI converged on the area - that would explain the 20 ft debris area."
You're saying in 2 or 3 days, money fragments that Brian raised, but left, got mixed into the sand, over that area, at those depths? ('thousands' ??)
By what, water? How did water do that?
Why didn't the little shards you're talking about, float away?
What you say doesn't make sense. Can you explain more?
You're saying the money was in one state on Sunday when Brian found it. And then fragments left by Brian got dispersed into the state the FBI agent reported, in the intervening 2 or 3 days?
Why and how? Did Brian leave money fragments there? A pile of small ones? Why didn't they wash away before Brian found his bundles? Did Brian uncover more money than just his bundles, but left it there?
I'm assuming water is causing the dispersal? Why would the money fragments get buried in sand? Or are you suggesting people buried the fragments in the sand after Brian's find? or ??
Are you saying water both moved fragments after Brian's find and also buried them with sand.in those 2-3 days?
I just can't picture this scenario you're describing Jo.
I also still can't believe Jo doesn't realize she's nuts.
"Considering Brian had already brought the money to the surface - and a couple of days before the FBI converged on the area - that would explain the 20 ft debris area."
You're saying in 2 or 3 days, money fragments that Brian raised, but left, got mixed into the sand, over that area, at those depths? ('thousands' ??)
By what, water? How did water do that?
Why didn't the little shards you're talking about, float away?
What you say doesn't make sense. Can you explain more?
You're saying the money was in one state on Sunday when Brian found it. And then fragments left by Brian got dispersed into the state the FBI agent reported, in the intervening 2 or 3 days?
Why and how? Did Brian leave money fragments there? A pile of small ones? Why didn't they wash away before Brian found his bundles? Did Brian uncover more money than just his bundles, but left it there?
I'm assuming water is causing the dispersal? Why would the money fragments get buried in sand? Or are you suggesting people buried the fragments in the sand after Brian's find? or ??
Are you saying water both moved fragments after Brian's find and also buried them with sand.in those 2-3 days?
I just can't picture this scenario you're describing Jo.
I also still can't believe Jo doesn't realize she's nuts.
snowmman 3
Why does Himmelsbach have more credibility than Dorwin?
Dorwin, I think sounds more accomplished as an agent then Himmelsbach.
I looked for stuff Himmelsbach had done, and didn't find a lot.
Maybe Jo can fill us in.
Jo also suggested Brian would be a better witness
Jo said
"As far as a debris field - I know that answer - but pick up the phone and call him or even Ingram - he was just a kid, but he might be a better witness than an FBI agent who is rambling at best...perhaps pulling Bruce's leg just a little."
So Brian, the kid that's selling money at auction houses, and was a kid then, is a better witness than the guy who headed Norjak after Himmelsbach?
Here's the clear truth: you've wasted 14 years of your life. I don't know if we can take Jerry at face value for the amount of time he says he's spent, but that's been a waste also.
Dorwin, I think sounds more accomplished as an agent then Himmelsbach.
I looked for stuff Himmelsbach had done, and didn't find a lot.
Maybe Jo can fill us in.
Jo also suggested Brian would be a better witness
Jo said
"As far as a debris field - I know that answer - but pick up the phone and call him or even Ingram - he was just a kid, but he might be a better witness than an FBI agent who is rambling at best...perhaps pulling Bruce's leg just a little."
So Brian, the kid that's selling money at auction houses, and was a kid then, is a better witness than the guy who headed Norjak after Himmelsbach?
Here's the clear truth: you've wasted 14 years of your life. I don't know if we can take Jerry at face value for the amount of time he says he's spent, but that's been a waste also.
I only know electronics, LORAN, GPS jammers etc You are more of a big picture guy G. Besides I did really poorly in statistics. I got a good grade but I had no idea how to use the teachings. My prof used to post absurd trick stat arguments like proving black is white etc and I could never see the trick.
If you left the particle analysis to me I might accidently conclude that it was all from a bag tossed off a bridge by Duane. I am confident you'd not let that happen.
377
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