377 22
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georger 244
QuoteJo the money fragment dispersal expert reported:
"Considering Brian had already brought the money to the surface - and a couple of days before the FBI converged on the area - that would explain the 20 ft debris area."
You're saying in 2 or 3 days, money fragments that Brian raised, but left, got mixed into the sand, over that area, at those depths? ('thousands' ??)
By what, water? How did water do that?
Why didn't the little shards you're talking about, float away?
What you say doesn't make sense. Can you explain more?
Thats just more Weber Hokum. (FOX news shit).
The sky is falling!
Here's a true fact: During every 24 hour period
I breath in at least 2-2 atoms of oxygen that
Julius Ceasar also breathed in and out.
That makes me Ceasar?
377 22
QuoteHere's a true fact: During every 24 hour period
I breath in at least 2-2 atoms of oxygen that
Julius Ceasar also breathed in and out. P
I am so confused by statistics that I buy Georger's story. I guess he breathed some of Cleopatra's air too. Maybe that's what sets him off now and then.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
georger 244
QuoteJo wrote: ***I put him in a chute and then they tell me I have to put him on the Plane - now go figure!
REALLY? When? How? Proof?
377
I keep coming back to the notion of having just walked on to a crime scene for the first time.
I look around and look at where things are:
bodies, pieces of bodies, blood spatter, bullet
casings, items strewn around the scene, footprints,
etc etc. And I ask "what does it say"? What's the
sequence of events - who did what? What happened?
And all witnesses have fled the scene... so its just
the physical evidence that is going to tell a story,
or not. I look for the most obvious things first.
If we can believe 'fragment field' at Tina bar then
the nature of those frags and the field itself can only
have been caused by the following: mechanical,
hydrological, man-made. To simplify this let's
eliminate the Mechanical Option ...
Could hydrology ands man-made account for what
we see?
I think you would have a problem explaining the
facts of the scene using "man made" and "hydrology" alone.
If you chose "mechanical" you can explain everything
alleged.
I am ready to be proved wrong but its going to
take a hell-of-lot more than Jo Weber/Sean
Hannity conjectures to do so! The Maldum Fornax
and Angel Udell did not create the scene at Tina Bar.
And to re-ask an old question: Who was in charge?
Is this a major excavation - arcaheological dig -
without a Master Planner? Where's the records for this major archaeological dig!?
Even the Egyptians keep records!!!
snowmman 3
from georger's post
"The post dredging sand layer under the upper active working layer contained older soda pop cans, rusted nails and spikes, and other older rusted artifacts, which were in a much more deteriorated condition indicative of their age compared to the upper active working layer. "
Yeah, there's no way Palmer was an expert on rusty objects!
I think he was just looking for something to validate his opinion?
There are other massive contributors to rust: acidity (pH), water content, oxygen content. Heck I suspect there was non-uniform distribution of iron thru the depth. The "stuff" at the top may have been more naturally resistant to rust. Who knows.
Without the objects, it's all speculation, as georger says.
(and if aluminum cans were there, well they don't corrode so fast)
hey my Coors aluminum can sidetrack was on topic.
"The post dredging sand layer under the upper active working layer contained older soda pop cans, rusted nails and spikes, and other older rusted artifacts, which were in a much more deteriorated condition indicative of their age compared to the upper active working layer. "
Yeah, there's no way Palmer was an expert on rusty objects!
I think he was just looking for something to validate his opinion?
There are other massive contributors to rust: acidity (pH), water content, oxygen content. Heck I suspect there was non-uniform distribution of iron thru the depth. The "stuff" at the top may have been more naturally resistant to rust. Who knows.
Without the objects, it's all speculation, as georger says.
(and if aluminum cans were there, well they don't corrode so fast)
hey my Coors aluminum can sidetrack was on topic.
snowmman 3
georger said "A briefcase is not mentioned in the Palmer Report, my source says."
Palmer wasn't there for the entire dig right? So Palmer isn't a good source for the sum total of stuff found, I think.
So while the briefcase might not be true, not being mentioned in Palmer's report doesn't mean much.
For instance: how much did Palmer talk about fragments, shards, or the state of the bundles Ingram found? Probably not much.
Palmer wasn't there for the entire dig right? So Palmer isn't a good source for the sum total of stuff found, I think.
So while the briefcase might not be true, not being mentioned in Palmer's report doesn't mean much.
For instance: how much did Palmer talk about fragments, shards, or the state of the bundles Ingram found? Probably not much.
snowmman 3
QuoteThere could be a body and a packed rig (or what is left of them) in the woods. It isn't impossible, just improbable.
Next to some tributary?
Himmelsbach promoted the theory once of Cooper crawling injured to a tributary, and the money falling in, and Cooper dying next to the water.
There's no place that's worth it for Jerry to look.
That's why he's in the same camp as Jo. There's no place in the whole states of OR and WA together, worth looking at.
Only a crazy person would be looking for stuff.
They both think they've got some elevated status because of their personal meetings with Himmelsbach. It's a mini cult.
snowmman 3
georger asked "And to re-ask an old question: Who was in charge?
Is this a major excavation - arcaheological dig -
without a Master Planner? Where's the records for this major archaeological dig!?"
Dorwin said there was a wall of records in Portland.
I wonder if there is stuff in Portland that didn't get moved to Seattle. Or if it did, it didn't get read, because agents believed they had all relevant info already.
I don't think the investigation did much "from the evidence out" work...it sounds like all their work was following tips.
Or interviewing at hotels, airport, etc.
I suspect they didn't write a lot about the dig.
Is this a major excavation - arcaheological dig -
without a Master Planner? Where's the records for this major archaeological dig!?"
Dorwin said there was a wall of records in Portland.
I wonder if there is stuff in Portland that didn't get moved to Seattle. Or if it did, it didn't get read, because agents believed they had all relevant info already.
I don't think the investigation did much "from the evidence out" work...it sounds like all their work was following tips.
Or interviewing at hotels, airport, etc.
I suspect they didn't write a lot about the dig.
snowmman 3
The rusty metal stuff close to the dredge layer. I wonder if that came up thru the dredge pump. Seems possible.
If not, where did it come from? Fazio? Drift wood with nails? But the nails were loose? Did the wood rot away?
random loose nails are not what you usually find. You find them on a construction site in the dirt, because workers just drop nails and don't pick them up.
But random loose bits of iron under Tena Bar is odd.
I've found strap hinges and rusty angle iron, but it's always still attached to pieces of wood..not loose metal. (rare)
I guess things like bedsprings, car parts etc are bigger metal objects you might find.
loose nails is odd.
If not, where did it come from? Fazio? Drift wood with nails? But the nails were loose? Did the wood rot away?
random loose nails are not what you usually find. You find them on a construction site in the dirt, because workers just drop nails and don't pick them up.
But random loose bits of iron under Tena Bar is odd.
I've found strap hinges and rusty angle iron, but it's always still attached to pieces of wood..not loose metal. (rare)
I guess things like bedsprings, car parts etc are bigger metal objects you might find.
loose nails is odd.
377 22
Quotehey my Coors aluminum can sidetrack was on topic.
Given enough time, anything will eventually become relevant or did I get that part of Stat 112 wrong too?
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
snowmman 3
QuoteQuotehey my Coors aluminum can sidetrack was on topic.
Given enough time, anything will eventually become relevant or did I get that part of Stat 112 wrong too?
377
That's the buy-and-hold strategy for the stock market. The problem is "long time" might exceed your lifetime.
Hmm. I wonder if I'll be posting here in 10 years, referencing posts made 11 years ago.
I wonder how long this thread could last before DZ.com does a major change or something happens.
The odd thing is I can still find posts I made to usenet groups back in '92. It's really weird to see stuff you posted 18 years ago (thru google groups, who bought dejanews, if you remember back when).
Will this thread live for 18 years? Or will it rust away and be buried by the post-dredge layer?
Jo may have it right. It will only be perserved on paper.
The book will be "The DBC Thread. By Jo Weber"
She'll print it after she's outlived all of us.
History is written by either the winner, or the survivor.
Quote
QuoteBruce reported
"Dorwin also said that the dredger “Bedell” was parked off-shore in the Columbia, and he concluded as self-evident that the money had been shredded by the dredge and thrown up on the beach as part of deposition of material. "
The money was 1980, the dredging with 1974. I don't think they were dredging in 1980.
I'll have to look into this. Maybe he's misremembering.
Bruce: maybe you have to call back on this?. There was no dredge parked right there on the photos we have that look out across the columbia on the money find days in 1980. (just the channel buoy)
I agree. I will have to call. The dredge is one big question. The briefcase is the other. The third is where the h**l are the baggies with all these thousands pieces of Cooper money? I've never seen a pix of the evidentiary collection that displays the shard find. Has anyone else?
Thanks for the correction on who the real singer-songwriter is on this thread. Mark Knoefler is one of my favorites.
georger 244
For instance: how much did Palmer talk about fragments, shards, or the state of the bundles Ingram found? Probably not much.
Not at all. He doesnt mention the money at all.
He only generalises about deterioration of objects
found but not the money.
It is a surprisingly brief report. More of an Abstract
than a report. A summary report?
The wall of reports at Portland does make me wonder. Only the FBI knows what that contained.
I have stated before I spoke with several people at Portland State trying to track down any lab work or
reports-documentations Palmer may have left on
the Tina Bar excavation and I came up with zilch.
The people I spoke with seemed very cooperative and they searched several times and could find nothing. One professor at PSU finally remarked to me: "It may not have been that important a project given everything else Leonard was involved with. He was very involved in many important projects".
In my moments of frustration here Ive been a
little critical. Its easy to forecast in hindsight now.
There are also some observations about Tina Bar
that Tom has made that I feel are accurate and
worthwhile, while at the same time if the Schreuder
report is valid then Tom's measurements of the
money location are probably wrong and irrelevant?
Thats just an opinion on my part -
I also find it a little ironic that after intense discussion about what a dredge will do, we turn
around and may have an example of what a dredge
did do, and now we run away from that?
The question in my mind is could some of that material have come from the mouth of the Lewis?
I thought we had already decided - no - but I'm still
wondering and curious.
georger 244
QuoteQuoteQuoteBruce reported
"Dorwin also said that the dredger “Bedell” was parked off-shore in the Columbia, and he concluded as self-evident that the money had been shredded by the dredge and thrown up on the beach as part of deposition of material. "
The money was 1980, the dredging with 1974. I don't think they were dredging in 1980.
I'll have to look into this. Maybe he's misremembering.
Bruce: maybe you have to call back on this?. There was no dredge parked right there on the photos we have that look out across the columbia on the money find days in 1980. (just the channel buoy)
I agree. I will have to call. The dredge is one big question. The briefcase is the other. The third is where the h**l are the baggies with all these thousands pieces of Cooper money? I've never seen a pix of the evidentiary collection that displays the shard find. Has anyone else?
Thanks for the correction on who the real singer-songwriter is on this thread. Mark Knoefler is one of my favorites.
You did a good job Bruce. At least you are out there
pounding the pavement and that is comendable.
Good luck...
snowmman 3
at the time Ckret released the aerial photos of tena bar, I remarked that you could see pipeline dredges downstream from Tena Bar, with their output pipes extending to shore.
That suggests that dredging did happen up closer to Lewis, but it also shows that dredge spoils didn't seem to be transported.
BUT: my paper about dredge spoil sites, was when I was trying to show you couldn't just dump dredge spoils anywhere.
So, did they ever use hopper dredges and transport material to a spoils site? I don't know. I think not.
Here's the picture showing pipeline dredges downstream from Tena Bar. The picture is from Sept 6th, 1974...So it's less than 1 month after the August 1974 dredging around Tena Bar.
The full picture is available at sluggo's restaurant:
here: http://n467us.com/Data%20Files/Tena%20Bar%2009-06-1974.jpg
Those could be the same pipeline dredges.
They're not very far from Tena Bar.
You can see how they put the output pipe on floats at intervals.
(edit) Ckret said the relevant dredging was August 19 through the 25th, 1974, and the court case I mentioned said August..but it seems like dredging continued on the river until Sept at least?
so maybe they were dredging all summer?
(edit) for comparison, 2nd attach is a closer picture of a known pipeline dredge on the Toutle River after the Mt St. Helens eruption, from
http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/ohq/106.2/willingham.html
You can see how the output pipe layout matches what you see in the '74 picture.
(edit) 3rd photo is a closeup of a pipeline from a dredge. not sure of the pipe size. But you can it's on floats like in the prior two pictures...more clear because it's close.
That suggests that dredging did happen up closer to Lewis, but it also shows that dredge spoils didn't seem to be transported.
BUT: my paper about dredge spoil sites, was when I was trying to show you couldn't just dump dredge spoils anywhere.
So, did they ever use hopper dredges and transport material to a spoils site? I don't know. I think not.
Here's the picture showing pipeline dredges downstream from Tena Bar. The picture is from Sept 6th, 1974...So it's less than 1 month after the August 1974 dredging around Tena Bar.
The full picture is available at sluggo's restaurant:
here: http://n467us.com/Data%20Files/Tena%20Bar%2009-06-1974.jpg
Those could be the same pipeline dredges.
They're not very far from Tena Bar.
You can see how they put the output pipe on floats at intervals.
(edit) Ckret said the relevant dredging was August 19 through the 25th, 1974, and the court case I mentioned said August..but it seems like dredging continued on the river until Sept at least?
so maybe they were dredging all summer?
(edit) for comparison, 2nd attach is a closer picture of a known pipeline dredge on the Toutle River after the Mt St. Helens eruption, from
http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/ohq/106.2/willingham.html
You can see how the output pipe layout matches what you see in the '74 picture.
(edit) 3rd photo is a closeup of a pipeline from a dredge. not sure of the pipe size. But you can it's on floats like in the prior two pictures...more clear because it's close.
snowmman 3
so we mentioned Knoefler because of Dire Straits.
But Knoefler also wrote music for the movie "The Princess Bride".
(this may prove 377's point about how everything eventually becomes relevant)
"The Princess Bride" reminds me of something that ticked me off about Ckret.
This goes back to a post I made Nov 13, 2008.
Titled "obvious question for Ckret"
here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3393457;search_string=%26quot%3Bobvious%20question%20for%20ckret%26quot%3B;#3393457
I posted
Ckret, you stated that the members of the informal Boeing "jump club" were all investigated. I presume this was the membership as of 1971.
The Boeing 727 was designed starting in 1959. The first delivery was in 1964. (727-100. first delivery 727-200 in 1967)
From what I can tell, the first time Boeing employees got together for an informal jumping club was in 1962.
If there was any suspicion Cooper might have been involved in some way with the 727 design or rollout, then an obvious investigation would be anyone involved in this informal jumping club from 1962 to 1964 or 1965.
Actually, one could imagine that it was a waste of time investigating 1971 members.
I'm assuming the 1962 to 1965 period was thoroughly investigated also? You mentioned that the case has been investigated thoroughly, so I'm assuming the answer is yes. If the answer is no, that's good too, it just confirms there really wasn't much of an investigation.
Now what was interesting (at least to me) was Ckret's answer..
I had another post in between where I buried this dig at Ckret for not answering the above. I said
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3394517;search_string=%26quot%3BYeah%20you%20missed%20something%26quot%3B;#3394517
"4) Yeah you missed something. You didn't answer my question with your name in the subject.
surprisingly, he noticed the dig and replied with this classic scene from "The Princess Bride"
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=3110098;page=205;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;
Ckret posted:
A question with my name in the subject? I can neither confirm nor deny the existence of such a question and if the answer to said question would have been yes then the complete answer in whole is no. However, there are those questions we know we know and then those questions we know we don’t know.
It would seem your question falls in the category of a known, known; which then could only mean that you in fact are trying to trick me. This would then lead you to believe I guessed wrong, however, you only think I guessed wrong! That's what's so funny! I switched glasses when your back was turned! Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Asia, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha...
But Knoefler also wrote music for the movie "The Princess Bride".
(this may prove 377's point about how everything eventually becomes relevant)
"The Princess Bride" reminds me of something that ticked me off about Ckret.
This goes back to a post I made Nov 13, 2008.
Titled "obvious question for Ckret"
here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3393457;search_string=%26quot%3Bobvious%20question%20for%20ckret%26quot%3B;#3393457
I posted
Ckret, you stated that the members of the informal Boeing "jump club" were all investigated. I presume this was the membership as of 1971.
The Boeing 727 was designed starting in 1959. The first delivery was in 1964. (727-100. first delivery 727-200 in 1967)
From what I can tell, the first time Boeing employees got together for an informal jumping club was in 1962.
If there was any suspicion Cooper might have been involved in some way with the 727 design or rollout, then an obvious investigation would be anyone involved in this informal jumping club from 1962 to 1964 or 1965.
Actually, one could imagine that it was a waste of time investigating 1971 members.
I'm assuming the 1962 to 1965 period was thoroughly investigated also? You mentioned that the case has been investigated thoroughly, so I'm assuming the answer is yes. If the answer is no, that's good too, it just confirms there really wasn't much of an investigation.
Now what was interesting (at least to me) was Ckret's answer..
I had another post in between where I buried this dig at Ckret for not answering the above. I said
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3394517;search_string=%26quot%3BYeah%20you%20missed%20something%26quot%3B;#3394517
"4) Yeah you missed something. You didn't answer my question with your name in the subject.
surprisingly, he noticed the dig and replied with this classic scene from "The Princess Bride"
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=3110098;page=205;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;
Ckret posted:
A question with my name in the subject? I can neither confirm nor deny the existence of such a question and if the answer to said question would have been yes then the complete answer in whole is no. However, there are those questions we know we know and then those questions we know we don’t know.
It would seem your question falls in the category of a known, known; which then could only mean that you in fact are trying to trick me. This would then lead you to believe I guessed wrong, however, you only think I guessed wrong! That's what's so funny! I switched glasses when your back was turned! Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Asia, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha...
377 22
That old post of Ckret's was cute. I actually enjoyed his presence here even though he was at times evasive. What a shame he was a victim of an obsessive grudge. The guy did have a good sense of humor.
I feel refreshed by the latest tone in the forum. We are a pack of Jackyls and Bruce just tossed us a ton of meat. We are feasting on it and, for moment at least, have stopped snapping at each other.
It is curious that there is so little documentation of the money shards. I do believe they were there. Lots of stories corellate. Could there be , as G suggests, lost or misplaced FBI files?
If the money container separated from Cooper during his fall it could end up in the river and Cooper on land. That's all I am saying in distinguishing Jerry's quest from Jo's. A body or rig could be in the woods. I don't give comparable odds on Duane being Cooper or even having ever parachuted.
Jerry at least gets sone vigorous exercise and an opportunity to commune with nature. Maybe more if he runs into some of those Washougal cabin widows.
Jo gets something different than Jerry does. It's less tangible but no less satisfying. Jerry slogs through inhospitable terrain and vegetation. Jo slogs through derisive doubters.
Petey sure makes a perfect Cooper even though he may not be Cooper. It was funny. Orange and I were constructing an ideal Cooper: 727 tech knowledge, smoke jumper, skydiver with night jumps, OUS resident in 71, SE Asia connection... And Snow finds a perfect match.
377
I feel refreshed by the latest tone in the forum. We are a pack of Jackyls and Bruce just tossed us a ton of meat. We are feasting on it and, for moment at least, have stopped snapping at each other.
It is curious that there is so little documentation of the money shards. I do believe they were there. Lots of stories corellate. Could there be , as G suggests, lost or misplaced FBI files?
If the money container separated from Cooper during his fall it could end up in the river and Cooper on land. That's all I am saying in distinguishing Jerry's quest from Jo's. A body or rig could be in the woods. I don't give comparable odds on Duane being Cooper or even having ever parachuted.
Jerry at least gets sone vigorous exercise and an opportunity to commune with nature. Maybe more if he runs into some of those Washougal cabin widows.
Jo gets something different than Jerry does. It's less tangible but no less satisfying. Jerry slogs through inhospitable terrain and vegetation. Jo slogs through derisive doubters.
Petey sure makes a perfect Cooper even though he may not be Cooper. It was funny. Orange and I were constructing an ideal Cooper: 727 tech knowledge, smoke jumper, skydiver with night jumps, OUS resident in 71, SE Asia connection... And Snow finds a perfect match.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
snowmman 3
377 said "Orange and I were constructing an ideal Cooper: 727 tech knowledge, smoke jumper, skydiver with night jumps, OUS resident in 71, SE Asia connection... And Snow finds a perfect match."
you forgot the all important age, height, physical description.
Throw all that in as requirements, and you'd think it'd be hard to find someone, unless you just had to look thru Snowmman Industries employee records.
you forgot the all important age, height, physical description.
Throw all that in as requirements, and you'd think it'd be hard to find someone, unless you just had to look thru Snowmman Industries employee records.
Brian was a child - when children come running with money in their hands - the crumbles fall. A child is not going to dig a hole for a fire. All he was doing was clearing an indent to build the fire in. At the most he could have cleared away 3 inches of sand to make an area for the fire. Have ANY of you ever built fires on the river - then GO build on in sandy soil on the river.
Unless there was a tide in those two day that could have brouht water over the area - tide would not be a factor in dispersing other fragments. From the area pointed out to me (while I was in Washington) - on an average day there would BE no tide to hit that area. HEAVY SNOW Melt Off along with a "normal' tide (I don't know how the tide works there - but I did learn that it is NOT normal for the tides to go up to where the money was except when snow melts/rain). The Fazios can explain that to Bruce before they die like everyone else has or is.
When some one talks to them - it has to be on 1971 - 1980 stats, because as dams are built and just usuage cause the rivers to change. Any Flooding that brought the river up is a factor. I know from hearsay (woman who lived there and the Fazios) there had been at least one flood since 1971 and before 1980.
You are forcing me to have to talk about something I am NOT qualified about and the rivers I am accustomed to are different than the Columbia with the influence of the Willamett within a short distance. FIND an old timer who lived on that river - and talk to them. I did - she was born and raised on that river, but was away at school during those yrs - so could not give any details for the time needed. Fazio is the one who needs to have those questions asked directly to him - without a lot of to do. What I am saying - he is getting old - make the subject of the conversation ONLY about tide - and tell him before you go - and don't ask anything else until AFTER he has told you all he can about the tides of 1971 - 1980. Old folks like me - can't handle 2 much at one time.
Unless there was a tide in those two day that could have brouht water over the area - tide would not be a factor in dispersing other fragments. From the area pointed out to me (while I was in Washington) - on an average day there would BE no tide to hit that area. HEAVY SNOW Melt Off along with a "normal' tide (I don't know how the tide works there - but I did learn that it is NOT normal for the tides to go up to where the money was except when snow melts/rain). The Fazios can explain that to Bruce before they die like everyone else has or is.
When some one talks to them - it has to be on 1971 - 1980 stats, because as dams are built and just usuage cause the rivers to change. Any Flooding that brought the river up is a factor. I know from hearsay (woman who lived there and the Fazios) there had been at least one flood since 1971 and before 1980.
You are forcing me to have to talk about something I am NOT qualified about and the rivers I am accustomed to are different than the Columbia with the influence of the Willamett within a short distance. FIND an old timer who lived on that river - and talk to them. I did - she was born and raised on that river, but was away at school during those yrs - so could not give any details for the time needed. Fazio is the one who needs to have those questions asked directly to him - without a lot of to do. What I am saying - he is getting old - make the subject of the conversation ONLY about tide - and tell him before you go - and don't ask anything else until AFTER he has told you all he can about the tides of 1971 - 1980. Old folks like me - can't handle 2 much at one time.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
377 22
I did take those criteria (ht, wt, looks) as a given starting point, but I didn't think to look inside the ultimate den of evil capitalism: SI. Who knows what lurks within?... the Snowmman knows.
I like old TV shows and was watching Route 66 on a DVD. One episode was practically written for Sluggo. Some wacked out nuke scientist forsees a message of impending Soviet ICBM attack hidden in the chess moves of a Russian opponent. He takes a bunch of human breed stock into Carlsbad Cavern to await the strike. The dialogue at one point recites every nuclear weapon fallout isotope and their human effects ("this one favors the thyroid"). Sluggo would have loved it.
In the end, as usual, conflicts are resolved and Buzz and Todd ride off to a new adventure in their Vette convertable. Am I the only one old enough to remeber this show? I have about 80 episodes and am hoping one involves skydiving.
Jo, you said very recently that you had put Duane in a chute. I assume you meant parachute not laundry or garbage chute. Why do you claim Duane was a parachutist when there is not a scintella of CREDIBLE evidence that he was?
377
I like old TV shows and was watching Route 66 on a DVD. One episode was practically written for Sluggo. Some wacked out nuke scientist forsees a message of impending Soviet ICBM attack hidden in the chess moves of a Russian opponent. He takes a bunch of human breed stock into Carlsbad Cavern to await the strike. The dialogue at one point recites every nuclear weapon fallout isotope and their human effects ("this one favors the thyroid"). Sluggo would have loved it.
In the end, as usual, conflicts are resolved and Buzz and Todd ride off to a new adventure in their Vette convertable. Am I the only one old enough to remeber this show? I have about 80 episodes and am hoping one involves skydiving.
Jo, you said very recently that you had put Duane in a chute. I assume you meant parachute not laundry or garbage chute. Why do you claim Duane was a parachutist when there is not a scintella of CREDIBLE evidence that he was?
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377 22
QuoteBrian was a child - when children come running with money in their hands - the crumbles fall.
Jo,
The VERTICAL distribution says D R E D G E deposit to me and to most others. Not Brian, not tides, not river currents.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
QuoteThat old post of Ckret's was cute. I actually enjoyed his presence here even though he was at times evasive. What a shame he was a victim of an obsessive grudge. The guy did have a good sense of humor.
Ckret was not the VICTIM of an Obsessive Grudge. He was a victim of his own Actions. He was unprofessional in his actions and words...too much into extraneous subjections and making himself public with hypothecital theories touted to the public. His behaviour was immature and impulsive - He might be good at robberies, but cold cases - he doesn't have the motivation to dig.
I passed a piece of information to Ckret (CARR) that he ignored, and I specifically asked him to examine a specific record one more time to see if he didn't see an irregularity there considering the time - 1945. Well, I final found someone who could do this - along with myself - and we found something the FBI did not find or too inept to find.
We now need for someone to dig into the archives of California to the 40's. I told Carr exactly where to go and what to look for but no "tea" time. It was not like they needed to look at yrs of record - we are talking a few months.
Those few months give us Duane's connections to jumping in the beginning and his "grudge". Then there is a second connection to Jumping they ignored, found by the brother (prior to 2000) when the FBI closed the file on Duane Weber..permanently at that time.
Please note that there was a military inquiry prior to 1998 - one that beat the FBI to the punch. I am not sure how this party acquired the information except to say that he had a friend who was an FBI agent and was just making an inquiry about a younger relative of his.
Since this young relatives name had NOT been mentioned in relation to a crime - the information was readily available.
I have been told an FBI agent couldn't do that - but the guy was just enquiring about his family member for genealogy purposes - but, later when this relatives possible involvement in
a major unsolved crime becomes public - that information become "secret". NO LONGER AVAILABLE!
Sorry but you got me going on the FBI again...because it is the major part of discussions going on outside of this forum.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Orange1 0
Quote
And the simple fact everything including the briefcase is "all chewed up" points to one source
alone: the dredge. The dredge did exactly what
everyone said it would - chewed everything up and spit it up then distributed by the end loader over
an area to weather until top erosion exposed the
sediment layer ... for Ingram tofind a few remaining
bundles.
yup... Jo's story is out, as is Gossett and his safe deposit box, as is Christiansen and his suddenly coming into money. (Jo predictably latched onto the briefcase and ignored the shards; you don't need the briefcase to explain the shards.)
ooh ooh ooh Jo said
QuoteBy the way Georger I have only told a couple of very little WHITE lies
thin edge of the wedge, grey area, etc etc. lies are lies. you didn't need to tell any lies to protect anyone Jo; after all there were plenty of times you simply claimed not to release info to protect people. i am afraid i am with georger on this one. your story had no credibility anyway; admission of lies just underscores that.
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377 - came across the LORAN story somewhere, possibly Boston Globe site - it probably wouldn't have caught my eye, except the mention of fishing boats made me think of you
----
Snow - I didn't think much of the movie The Princess Bride, but I adore the book - haven't read it for years but I think I must have read it 10 or 15 times before then
...and then your quote (or Ckret's quote) from it (ref the Sicilian) makes me think of that classic exchange in (my favourite movie) True Romance, which involved Dennis Hopper...
--- Ooh, I have just come across Jo's post lambasting Ckret. WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU ARE? He always acted highly professionally and patiiently with you even though you acted precisely the opposite. I think Obsessive Grudge is a very true characterisation. The truth hurts sometimes, Jo.
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
snowmman 3
Jo the expert on kids running with money said 'Brian was a child - when children come running with money in their hands - the crumbles fall."
But the money was found both vertically and horizontally dispersed in the sand.
How do explain the variety of depths the shards were found at?
Are you saying they were mixed up with that amount of sand, in the 2-3 days after Brian ran around?
You're saying that amount of sand arrived in those 2-3 days and uniformly mixed in with the shards (as opposed to being washed away or washed somewhere).
Jo: do you think anyone believes anything you say?
What do the people that work for you think about this issue? Do they believe the Brian Ingram running-with-scissors theory?
But the money was found both vertically and horizontally dispersed in the sand.
How do explain the variety of depths the shards were found at?
Are you saying they were mixed up with that amount of sand, in the 2-3 days after Brian ran around?
You're saying that amount of sand arrived in those 2-3 days and uniformly mixed in with the shards (as opposed to being washed away or washed somewhere).
Jo: do you think anyone believes anything you say?
What do the people that work for you think about this issue? Do they believe the Brian Ingram running-with-scissors theory?
I think Jo is chasing a phantom but Jerry's quest is different. Cooper could have easily been separated from the loot during a high speed unstable exit. There could be a body and a packed rig (or what is left of them) in the woods. It isn't impossible, just improbable.
Jo keeps finding more weird stuff about Duane's life in and out of prison, but none of it puts him in a chute much less jumping from an NWA 727.
377
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