Amazon 7 #16026 January 21, 2010 Quote Quote Maybe I should have included the proviso in the contract that the pilot had to be licensed for the craft being flown. Is that being too wussy? yeah, it is. Jumpers dont care about FAA licenses, they just want enough time in type to handle the acft in tough situations and reasonable blood alcohol and drug levels in the jumpship pilots. I didnt say ZERO. I mean that would be hypocritical, 377 I can remember doing a bandit water jump into the Ohio River many moons ago... the pilot... well shall we say was not quite right..... and had not flown jumpers before. On "Jump Run" he was in the freakin clouds....looking out his side window.. I was kneeling in the door of the C-180 trying to see some ground down there somewhere thru the clouds..... nothing to see but cloud. I look over at him..since the airplane is just not feeling right.. and as I look over I catch a glimpse of the ground.... out of the windshield... close lookin too... I punched him and pointed as I was diving out the door. I opened about 900 ft over a church steeple on the bluffs overlooking the river... he namaged to pull it out over the river. I never flew with that moron again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowmman 3 #16027 January 21, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Maybe I should have included the proviso in the contract that the pilot had to be licensed for the craft being flown. Is that being too wussy? yeah, it is. Jumpers dont care about FAA licenses, they just want enough time in type to handle the acft in tough situations and reasonable blood alcohol and drug levels in the jumpship pilots. I didnt say ZERO. I mean that would be hypocritical, 377 I can remember doing a bandit water jump into the Ohio River many moons ago... the pilot... well shall we say was not quite right..... and had not flown jumpers before. On "Jump Run" he was in the freakin clouds....looking out his side window.. I was kneeling in the door of the C-180 trying to see some ground down there somewhere thru the clouds..... nothing to see but cloud. I look over at him..since the airplane is just not feeling right.. and as I look over I catch a glimpse of the ground.... out of the windshield... close lookin too... I punched him and pointed as I was diving out the door. I opened about 900 ft over a church steeple on the bluffs overlooking the river... he managed to pull it out over the river. I never flew with that moron again. I'm picturing Cooper with a similar story. Just swap C-180 with 727, and "Ohio River" with "Columbia River".. :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SKYWHUFFO 1 #16028 January 22, 2010 Ian, Being a Canadian, was the Cooper comics a common thing? What's your opinion of this theory? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SKYWHUFFO 1 #16029 January 22, 2010 Amazon, where on the Ohio? I am setting about 150 yards from the Ohio (my house) right now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryThomas 0 #16030 January 22, 2010 Bruce Smith Check your messages. Jerry*** Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
b1jercat 0 #16031 January 22, 2010 I recall the first time I met you, we piled into a 182. You and I were in the back of the plane, you were jumping a SR71 I was jumping an anybody's guess rol rig. There was five of us on the load and no one under 250 out the door. After three or four bounces we were airbourn and at 1,000 ft that horn finally quit and you kept me enteratained all the way to altitude. You have some excelent stories, I can't believe you would be put off by a wierde vibe. It seems like that would be right down your alley. xoxo blues''jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowmman 3 #16032 January 22, 2010 QuoteBruce Smith Check your messages. Jerry*** uh oh. secret messages. I suspect death threats. If we don't hear from Bruce in a couple days... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #16033 January 22, 2010 Quote Amazon, where on the Ohio? I am setting about 150 yards from the Ohio (my house) right now. It was near Cincinnatti.... not sure where it wasexactly because it was over 30 years ago... they were having a boat race with hydro's.... and we were doing a bandit demo.. they thought we were all nutz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #16034 January 22, 2010 Quote I recall the first time I met you, we piled into a 182. You and I were in the back of the plane, you were jumping a SR71 I was jumping an anybody's guess rol rig. There was five of us on the load and no one under 250 out the door. After three or four bounces we were airbourn and at 1,000 ft that horn finally quit and you kept me enteratained all the way to altitude. You have some excelent stories, I can't believe you would be put off by a wierde vibe. It seems like that would be right down your alley. xoxo blues''jerry I guess I have survived this long because I have a very well developed sence of self preservation. I may do some reallllly stupid shit... but I ALWAYS figure out the best way to survive itI will say that F%@%@% stall warning... was a bit disconcerting... I do NOT like stall horns..at all...unless its me at the controls... so I can do something about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SKYWHUFFO 1 #16035 January 22, 2010 Amazon, Let me help your memory, Madison Indiana? I am down River but know Madison Well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BruceSmith 3 #16036 January 22, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteI think we can rule out petey. Georger will point out that he's not a good match for the sketch. Mouth is too big for one. I wonder how the FBI first ID'd Petey as a suspect? Based on my personal experience in criminal cases it's a mistake to rule out a suspect based on a witness sketch unless there is a HUGE difference. Petey may not be Cooper but he is close enough to the sketch to stay in the suspect pool. 377 I agree. BTW: Petey's clammed up on me again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BruceSmith 3 #16037 January 22, 2010 QuoteQuoteBruce Smith Check your messages. Jerry*** uh oh. secret messages. I suspect death threats. If we don't hear from Bruce in a couple days... Quote They ain't got me yet. I had PM'd Jerry asking for Brian Ingram's contact info, which he sent to me today. Brian and I had a delightful, but brief, chat before he put his kids to bed this evening. He said, "no briefcase," as per Dorwin's commentary. Brian and I made a date to talk again soon, after which I will report back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BruceSmith 3 #16038 January 22, 2010 QuoteQuoteDid you guys see this other thread on him - in trouble yet again http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3781613;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread I guess you just can't keep a bad man down. I still havent ruled him out as Cooper. His telephone alibi isnt convincing to me. 377 Quote I agree, 377. And why does Himms seem to give him credibility, including writing in his book that Mayfield gave important assistance to the FBI's investigation. What kind of assistance, Himms? C'mon, tell us. Plus, Teddy Boy seems like a real dangerous guy. He hasn't just committed one or two offences, but a plethora. Remember, he's a murderer! C'mon! What is this guy's story???? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #16039 January 22, 2010 Quote Amazon, Let me help your memory, Madison Indiana? I am down River but know Madison Well. It might have been Madison..but I am stillnot sure.. it was the only time I was there. A friend at the time put the demo together with this idiot who had the C-180.. It seemd like a good idea at the time. What better way to spend a warm summer day with a water jump... and boat racing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BruceSmith 3 #16040 January 22, 2010 QuoteMaybe Cooper asked for four chutes cause they might be Mayfield pack jobs. 377[/reply Best laugh of the day, 377. Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #16041 January 22, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI think we can rule out petey. Georger will point out that he's not a good match for the sketch. Mouth is too big for one. I wonder how the FBI first ID'd Petey as a suspect? Based on my personal experience in criminal cases it's a mistake to rule out a suspect based on a witness sketch unless there is a HUGE difference. Petey may not be Cooper but he is close enough to the sketch to stay in the suspect pool. 377 I agree. BTW: Petey's clammed up on me again. This is not right. Bruce: Tell Petey that you want to talk about his book. I think I may be the only person on the planet who's paid money for his book. I paid $25. And I can't get to talk to the author? Why write a book if you don't want to discuss it with your readers? This is like J. D. Salinger? We're supposed to guess at the themes? I've done a lot of guessing, and shit, it's about time the author speaks! He's going to be dead soon. (age: consult actuarial tables for prediction) Then where will I be? $25 short of of a twenty, shit out of luck, stuck in the Death Woods after a heli insert by a drunk unlicensed buddy of Jerry's, staring at some piece of shit ebook that I can't figure out. ... with Amazon cackling maniacally next to me as she gimps off into the dark with a leg half sawed off, with me yelling "hey, wait for me"..and all I can hear is her in the distance "..This is like a jump we did in Utah, man I beat the crap out of that rigger too when I got back..." What kind of friggin thread is this? (edit) If that doesn't work, tell him "The Ox Bow Incident" was way f*ing better, anyhow. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #16042 January 22, 2010 He said, "no briefcase," as per Dorwin's commentary. How would Brian Ingram know!? All he has is rumor. Brian Ingram was not a witness to any of this! And. neither was Jerry Thomas - or Jo Weber! (a smart attorney never asks a question he doesnt already know the answer to). Keep track of the fact the Cooper case (including all files) were transferred to Seattle... and the Ingram's interests right along with it - Brian Ingram is not a neutral witness, period. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AncestralManor 0 #16043 January 22, 2010 Quote Brian and I had a delightful, but brief, chat before he put his kids to bed this evening. He said, "no briefcase," as per Dorwin's commentary. Brian and I made a date to talk again soon, after which I will report back. Bruce, Brian's decision to auction off what he still had in the D B Cooper money seems to have resulted in an update to the serial numbers because the folks who prepped the money were able to separate bills that were still stuck together and put some of the scraps together to complete serial numbers. See links below. By comparing photographs of the money when it was found in 1980 with the detailed scans of the remnants that Brian has auctioned off as well as photos of the money that the FBI retains, there are several questions that Brian might particularly help with. How did the FBI estimate the dollar total for the three stacks if many bills were still stuck together? Would the total have been changed if each bill were separately counted in 1980? Might the $5880 total apportioned between Brian, the insurance company & FBI change? Has anyone compared the sequence of the serial numbers as recorded with the cluster of numbers found by Brian? If as some reports state, the money was microfilmed by a machine, then it seems possible that it was bundled in the rubber bands in the sequence it came out of the machine. Were the bundles stacked on top of each other or laying side by side when Brian found them? How deep? Published interviews with Brian seem to indicate right below the surface. Did the FBI bring him back to Tina Bar when they began digging? What are the sources for claims that the rubber bands would or would not have deteriorated completely if they had been wet for more than a few months or years? All of the photos appear to indicate only the lacy rotting damage to the money. Not any sort of sand or water friction and grinding. Did Brian see any evidence of other bills with the more traumatic grinding damage? Brian's web site (only links to images of the 1st 15 bills he sold in 2008) http://www.dbcoopermoney.com/ Info on serial number update http://www.coinnews.net/2008/02/27/pcgs-currency-notifies-fbi-of-d-b-cooper-serial-numbers-3953/ "scraps as small as pennies, along with the 13 half-bills and nearly 20 full bills he owns" http://www.katu.com/news/weird/12985152.html 38 auction images - front and back with FBI inspection initials http://historical.ha.com/common/auction/pricesrealized.php?src=collection&ID=&optGlobalSearch=&globalSiteDropdown=historical&cboDenomination=All%3A&cboSaleNo=&txtSearch=%22d.+b.+cooper%22&cmdSearch=Search+Auction+Archives&chkFullSearch=1&hdnSearch=True&txtLotNo=&stage=1 Citizen sleuth speculation reports http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2009/03/amateur_detectives_fish_for_db.html Thanks! AncestralManor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #16044 January 22, 2010 okay there's so many new posters, I'll throw out my idea for page 666, where 377 has to be the first post. Here's how to make it even better. On page 665, everyone is required to post only once. Think of it like a 25-way formation. We don't get to advance to page 666 unless there are 25 unique posters on page 665. So 366 makes it complete with the 26 way, on the start of page 666. So then everyone's in. Plus. We have to get 25 unique posters. Plus. Anyone can screw it up by posting twice on page 665. Kind of boosts the failure probability. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #16045 January 22, 2010 I would remind everyone, that Tom Kaye is just a frontman put out there to deceive the public, and I, Snowmman, am the president-for-life of the Citizen's Sleuth Group. The proof is that no one else claims the same position, and the CSG obviously exists. I don't give interviews. Why shouldn't I work for the NSA? That's a tough one, but I'll give it a shot. Say I'm working at NSA. Somebody puts a code on my desk, something nobody else can break. So I take a shot at it and maybe I break it. And I'm real happy with myself because I did my job well. But maybe that code was the location of some rebel army in North Africa or the Middle East. Once they have that location, they bomb the village where the rebels were hiding and 1,500 people I never had a problem with get killed. Now the politicians are saying, 'Send in the marines to secure the area' because they don't give a shit. It won't be their kid over there, getting shot. Just like it wasn't them when their number was called because they were pulling a tour in the National Guard. It'll be some guy from Southie taking shrapnel in the ass. And he comes home to find that the plant he used to work at got exported to the country he just got back from. And the guy who put the shrapnel in his ass got his old job, because he'll work for 15 cents a day and no bathroom breaks. Meanwhile my buddy from Southie realizes the only reason he was over there was so we could install a government that would sell us oil at a good price. And of course the oil companies used the skirmish to scare up oil prices so they could turn a quick buck. A cute little ancillary benefit for them but it ain't helping my buddy at $2.50 a gallon. And naturally they're taking their sweet time bringing the oil back and maybe even took the liberty of hiring an alcoholic skipper who likes to drink martinis and play slalom with the icebergs, and it ain't too long until he hits one, spills the oil and kills all the sea life in the North Atlantic. So my buddy's out of work and he can't afford to drive, so he's got to walk to the job interviews, which sucks because the shrapnel in his ass is giving him chronic hemorrhoids. And meanwhile he's starving because every time he tries to get a bite to eat the only blue plate special they're serving is North Atlantic scrod with Quaker State. So what do I think? I'm holding out for something better. Why not just shoot my buddy, take his job and give it to his sworn enemy, hike up gas prices, bomb a village, club a baby seal, hit the hash pipe and join the National Guard? I could be elected president. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #16046 January 22, 2010 ancestralmanor raises an issue I was wondering about recently. There were a number of estimates of total $ at the time of the find. $5800 was common. It's reasonable this was an estimate based on the average # of bills in each bundle, which ckret said was random. But here's what's strange this page http://historical.ha.com/c/press-release.zx?releaseId=1509 connected with the recent auction says Ingram had only 84 bills/fragments. "Ingram found approximately $5,800 of the $200,000 ransom given to the skyjacker, and the FBI later returned a small portion to his family. Ingram owns 84 D.B. Cooper bills and fragments." If Ingram and the insurance company went 50-50, and the FBI only kept 13 or 14 bills, then it doesn't add up..i.e. Brian didn't get enough. Recent account says the FBI has 13 http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-03-31-hijacker-bills_N.htm Brian did give or sell at least one bill very early after he got them. Remember the story of the teacher in the school (Sallislaw, OK) he went to after they left California that I posted? The teacher got a bill for his retired FBI agent dad. back in the thread here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3263447;search_string=ingram%20ebay;#3263447 That bill showed up on ebay around the time of the first Ingram auctions. We discussed it here. So did Brian have more bills before? maybe a small number more than the 84. Or is the 84 wrong? I wonder if it means that the "3 bundles" really didn't have as many bills as the original estimate implied, once they dissected the bundles? ancestral: I think I posted the largest photos (cropped) of the money from both auctions here already. I also posted pictures that someone who actually bought some of the bills, had put on the web. But my point: If the total number of bills in the Brian find was much less than $5800/$20 = 290, then maybe there were no rubber bands? They said only one bundle was missing rubber bands. But even if it was missing a lot of bills, there should be more? 84 + 84 + 13 = 181 bills, not 290. Even allowing for 10% randomness of bills per bundle, compared to the original FBI estimate, it seems too far off. I think we tried to estimate the number of bills from the side thickness of the bundles on the green table photos from 1980. was not conclusive. The 3 bundles were split into 12 stuck-together stacks in those pics. Now would any stuff found by the FBI be included in that $5800 sum? dunno. They reported it as found by Brian. ancestral: Ckret said neither the count per bundle, nor the serial number order per bundle was recorded. He wasn't even clear to us on how the rubber bands secured the bundles. One wrap or two or more? (remember the FBI never saw the rubber bands, though). ckret references: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3104370;search_string=serial%20numbers;#3104370 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #16047 January 22, 2010 manor person asked: "Were the bundles stacked on top of each other or laying side by side when Brian found them? How deep?" Brian has given multiple descriptions. Some conflicting. I think his description of all 3 bundles stuck together (i read as on top of each other..they wouldn't stick otherwise)...is the most consistent. (edit) Arguably, the rubber bands were there, if they were all stuck together, otherwise why would they say "3 bundles"...you need rubber bands around at least two groups, to say there are 3 groups. Otherwise you would just say "a mass" or "lots of bills" so I guess that supports rubber bands Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #16048 January 22, 2010 Quoteancestralmanor raises an issue I was wondering about recently. There were a number of estimates of total $ at the time of the find. $5800 was common. It's reasonable this was an estimate based on the average # of bills in each bundle, which ckret said was random. But here's what's strange this page http://historical.ha.com/c/press-release.zx?releaseId=1509 connected with the recent auction says Ingram had only 84 bills/fragments. "Ingram found approximately $5,800 of the $200,000 ransom given to the skyjacker, and the FBI later returned a small portion to his family. Ingram owns 84 D.B. Cooper bills and fragments." If Ingram and the insurance company went 50-50, and the FBI only kept 13 or 14 bills, then it doesn't add up..i.e. Brian didn't get enough. Recent account says the FBI has 13 http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-03-31-hijacker-bills_N.htm Brian did give or sell at least one bill very early after he got them. Remember the story of the teacher in the school (Sallislaw, OK) he went to after they left California that I posted? The teacher got a bill for his retired FBI agent dad. back in the thread here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3263447;search_string=ingram%20ebay;#3263447 That bill showed up on ebay around the time of the first Ingram auctions. We discussed it here. So did Brian have more bills before? maybe a small number more than the 84. Or is the 84 wrong? I wonder if it means that the "3 bundles" really didn't have as many bills as the original estimate implied, once they dissected the bundles? ancestral: I think I posted the largest photos (cropped) of the money from both auctions here already. I also posted pictures that someone who actually bought some of the bills, had put on the web. But my point: If the total number of bills in the Brian find was much less than $5800/$20 = 290, then maybe there were no rubber bands? They said only one bundle was missing rubber bands. But even if it was missing a lot of bills, there should be more? 84 + 84 + 13 = 181 bills, not 290. Even allowing for 10% randomness of bills per bundle, compared to the original FBI estimate, it seems too far off. I think we tried to estimate the number of bills from the side thickness of the bundles on the green table photos from 1980. was not conclusive. The 3 bundles were split into 12 stuck-together stacks in those pics. Now would any stuff found by the FBI be included in that $5800 sum? dunno. They reported it as found by Brian. ancestral: Ckret said neither the count per bundle, nor the serial number order per bundle was recorded. He wasn't even clear to us on how the rubber bands secured the bundles. One wrap or two or more? ckret references: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3104370;search_string=serial%20numbers;#3104370 dollar amount = no. of serial numbers matched - this was all pre auction company finding parts of more serial numbers (added about fifteen more?) The $5800 figure is ........... about as accurate as Brian's memory. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #16049 January 22, 2010 Brian has given multiple descriptions. Some conflicting. Brian was a kid in the middle of adults having a . . . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #16050 January 22, 2010 (edit) Arguably, the rubber bands were there, They picked rubber band fragments off back at the apt as the money was drying etc ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 637 638 639 640 641 642 643 644 645 646 647 Next Page 642 of 2570 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 50 50 Go To Topic Listing
BruceSmith 3 #16037 January 22, 2010 QuoteQuoteBruce Smith Check your messages. Jerry*** uh oh. secret messages. I suspect death threats. If we don't hear from Bruce in a couple days... Quote They ain't got me yet. I had PM'd Jerry asking for Brian Ingram's contact info, which he sent to me today. Brian and I had a delightful, but brief, chat before he put his kids to bed this evening. He said, "no briefcase," as per Dorwin's commentary. Brian and I made a date to talk again soon, after which I will report back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BruceSmith 3 #16038 January 22, 2010 QuoteQuoteDid you guys see this other thread on him - in trouble yet again http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3781613;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread I guess you just can't keep a bad man down. I still havent ruled him out as Cooper. His telephone alibi isnt convincing to me. 377 Quote I agree, 377. And why does Himms seem to give him credibility, including writing in his book that Mayfield gave important assistance to the FBI's investigation. What kind of assistance, Himms? C'mon, tell us. Plus, Teddy Boy seems like a real dangerous guy. He hasn't just committed one or two offences, but a plethora. Remember, he's a murderer! C'mon! What is this guy's story???? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #16039 January 22, 2010 Quote Amazon, Let me help your memory, Madison Indiana? I am down River but know Madison Well. It might have been Madison..but I am stillnot sure.. it was the only time I was there. A friend at the time put the demo together with this idiot who had the C-180.. It seemd like a good idea at the time. What better way to spend a warm summer day with a water jump... and boat racing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BruceSmith 3 #16040 January 22, 2010 QuoteMaybe Cooper asked for four chutes cause they might be Mayfield pack jobs. 377[/reply Best laugh of the day, 377. Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #16041 January 22, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI think we can rule out petey. Georger will point out that he's not a good match for the sketch. Mouth is too big for one. I wonder how the FBI first ID'd Petey as a suspect? Based on my personal experience in criminal cases it's a mistake to rule out a suspect based on a witness sketch unless there is a HUGE difference. Petey may not be Cooper but he is close enough to the sketch to stay in the suspect pool. 377 I agree. BTW: Petey's clammed up on me again. This is not right. Bruce: Tell Petey that you want to talk about his book. I think I may be the only person on the planet who's paid money for his book. I paid $25. And I can't get to talk to the author? Why write a book if you don't want to discuss it with your readers? This is like J. D. Salinger? We're supposed to guess at the themes? I've done a lot of guessing, and shit, it's about time the author speaks! He's going to be dead soon. (age: consult actuarial tables for prediction) Then where will I be? $25 short of of a twenty, shit out of luck, stuck in the Death Woods after a heli insert by a drunk unlicensed buddy of Jerry's, staring at some piece of shit ebook that I can't figure out. ... with Amazon cackling maniacally next to me as she gimps off into the dark with a leg half sawed off, with me yelling "hey, wait for me"..and all I can hear is her in the distance "..This is like a jump we did in Utah, man I beat the crap out of that rigger too when I got back..." What kind of friggin thread is this? (edit) If that doesn't work, tell him "The Ox Bow Incident" was way f*ing better, anyhow. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #16042 January 22, 2010 He said, "no briefcase," as per Dorwin's commentary. How would Brian Ingram know!? All he has is rumor. Brian Ingram was not a witness to any of this! And. neither was Jerry Thomas - or Jo Weber! (a smart attorney never asks a question he doesnt already know the answer to). Keep track of the fact the Cooper case (including all files) were transferred to Seattle... and the Ingram's interests right along with it - Brian Ingram is not a neutral witness, period. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AncestralManor 0 #16043 January 22, 2010 Quote Brian and I had a delightful, but brief, chat before he put his kids to bed this evening. He said, "no briefcase," as per Dorwin's commentary. Brian and I made a date to talk again soon, after which I will report back. Bruce, Brian's decision to auction off what he still had in the D B Cooper money seems to have resulted in an update to the serial numbers because the folks who prepped the money were able to separate bills that were still stuck together and put some of the scraps together to complete serial numbers. See links below. By comparing photographs of the money when it was found in 1980 with the detailed scans of the remnants that Brian has auctioned off as well as photos of the money that the FBI retains, there are several questions that Brian might particularly help with. How did the FBI estimate the dollar total for the three stacks if many bills were still stuck together? Would the total have been changed if each bill were separately counted in 1980? Might the $5880 total apportioned between Brian, the insurance company & FBI change? Has anyone compared the sequence of the serial numbers as recorded with the cluster of numbers found by Brian? If as some reports state, the money was microfilmed by a machine, then it seems possible that it was bundled in the rubber bands in the sequence it came out of the machine. Were the bundles stacked on top of each other or laying side by side when Brian found them? How deep? Published interviews with Brian seem to indicate right below the surface. Did the FBI bring him back to Tina Bar when they began digging? What are the sources for claims that the rubber bands would or would not have deteriorated completely if they had been wet for more than a few months or years? All of the photos appear to indicate only the lacy rotting damage to the money. Not any sort of sand or water friction and grinding. Did Brian see any evidence of other bills with the more traumatic grinding damage? Brian's web site (only links to images of the 1st 15 bills he sold in 2008) http://www.dbcoopermoney.com/ Info on serial number update http://www.coinnews.net/2008/02/27/pcgs-currency-notifies-fbi-of-d-b-cooper-serial-numbers-3953/ "scraps as small as pennies, along with the 13 half-bills and nearly 20 full bills he owns" http://www.katu.com/news/weird/12985152.html 38 auction images - front and back with FBI inspection initials http://historical.ha.com/common/auction/pricesrealized.php?src=collection&ID=&optGlobalSearch=&globalSiteDropdown=historical&cboDenomination=All%3A&cboSaleNo=&txtSearch=%22d.+b.+cooper%22&cmdSearch=Search+Auction+Archives&chkFullSearch=1&hdnSearch=True&txtLotNo=&stage=1 Citizen sleuth speculation reports http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2009/03/amateur_detectives_fish_for_db.html Thanks! AncestralManor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #16044 January 22, 2010 okay there's so many new posters, I'll throw out my idea for page 666, where 377 has to be the first post. Here's how to make it even better. On page 665, everyone is required to post only once. Think of it like a 25-way formation. We don't get to advance to page 666 unless there are 25 unique posters on page 665. So 366 makes it complete with the 26 way, on the start of page 666. So then everyone's in. Plus. We have to get 25 unique posters. Plus. Anyone can screw it up by posting twice on page 665. Kind of boosts the failure probability. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #16045 January 22, 2010 I would remind everyone, that Tom Kaye is just a frontman put out there to deceive the public, and I, Snowmman, am the president-for-life of the Citizen's Sleuth Group. The proof is that no one else claims the same position, and the CSG obviously exists. I don't give interviews. Why shouldn't I work for the NSA? That's a tough one, but I'll give it a shot. Say I'm working at NSA. Somebody puts a code on my desk, something nobody else can break. So I take a shot at it and maybe I break it. And I'm real happy with myself because I did my job well. But maybe that code was the location of some rebel army in North Africa or the Middle East. Once they have that location, they bomb the village where the rebels were hiding and 1,500 people I never had a problem with get killed. Now the politicians are saying, 'Send in the marines to secure the area' because they don't give a shit. It won't be their kid over there, getting shot. Just like it wasn't them when their number was called because they were pulling a tour in the National Guard. It'll be some guy from Southie taking shrapnel in the ass. And he comes home to find that the plant he used to work at got exported to the country he just got back from. And the guy who put the shrapnel in his ass got his old job, because he'll work for 15 cents a day and no bathroom breaks. Meanwhile my buddy from Southie realizes the only reason he was over there was so we could install a government that would sell us oil at a good price. And of course the oil companies used the skirmish to scare up oil prices so they could turn a quick buck. A cute little ancillary benefit for them but it ain't helping my buddy at $2.50 a gallon. And naturally they're taking their sweet time bringing the oil back and maybe even took the liberty of hiring an alcoholic skipper who likes to drink martinis and play slalom with the icebergs, and it ain't too long until he hits one, spills the oil and kills all the sea life in the North Atlantic. So my buddy's out of work and he can't afford to drive, so he's got to walk to the job interviews, which sucks because the shrapnel in his ass is giving him chronic hemorrhoids. And meanwhile he's starving because every time he tries to get a bite to eat the only blue plate special they're serving is North Atlantic scrod with Quaker State. So what do I think? I'm holding out for something better. Why not just shoot my buddy, take his job and give it to his sworn enemy, hike up gas prices, bomb a village, club a baby seal, hit the hash pipe and join the National Guard? I could be elected president. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #16046 January 22, 2010 ancestralmanor raises an issue I was wondering about recently. There were a number of estimates of total $ at the time of the find. $5800 was common. It's reasonable this was an estimate based on the average # of bills in each bundle, which ckret said was random. But here's what's strange this page http://historical.ha.com/c/press-release.zx?releaseId=1509 connected with the recent auction says Ingram had only 84 bills/fragments. "Ingram found approximately $5,800 of the $200,000 ransom given to the skyjacker, and the FBI later returned a small portion to his family. Ingram owns 84 D.B. Cooper bills and fragments." If Ingram and the insurance company went 50-50, and the FBI only kept 13 or 14 bills, then it doesn't add up..i.e. Brian didn't get enough. Recent account says the FBI has 13 http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-03-31-hijacker-bills_N.htm Brian did give or sell at least one bill very early after he got them. Remember the story of the teacher in the school (Sallislaw, OK) he went to after they left California that I posted? The teacher got a bill for his retired FBI agent dad. back in the thread here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3263447;search_string=ingram%20ebay;#3263447 That bill showed up on ebay around the time of the first Ingram auctions. We discussed it here. So did Brian have more bills before? maybe a small number more than the 84. Or is the 84 wrong? I wonder if it means that the "3 bundles" really didn't have as many bills as the original estimate implied, once they dissected the bundles? ancestral: I think I posted the largest photos (cropped) of the money from both auctions here already. I also posted pictures that someone who actually bought some of the bills, had put on the web. But my point: If the total number of bills in the Brian find was much less than $5800/$20 = 290, then maybe there were no rubber bands? They said only one bundle was missing rubber bands. But even if it was missing a lot of bills, there should be more? 84 + 84 + 13 = 181 bills, not 290. Even allowing for 10% randomness of bills per bundle, compared to the original FBI estimate, it seems too far off. I think we tried to estimate the number of bills from the side thickness of the bundles on the green table photos from 1980. was not conclusive. The 3 bundles were split into 12 stuck-together stacks in those pics. Now would any stuff found by the FBI be included in that $5800 sum? dunno. They reported it as found by Brian. ancestral: Ckret said neither the count per bundle, nor the serial number order per bundle was recorded. He wasn't even clear to us on how the rubber bands secured the bundles. One wrap or two or more? (remember the FBI never saw the rubber bands, though). ckret references: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3104370;search_string=serial%20numbers;#3104370 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #16047 January 22, 2010 manor person asked: "Were the bundles stacked on top of each other or laying side by side when Brian found them? How deep?" Brian has given multiple descriptions. Some conflicting. I think his description of all 3 bundles stuck together (i read as on top of each other..they wouldn't stick otherwise)...is the most consistent. (edit) Arguably, the rubber bands were there, if they were all stuck together, otherwise why would they say "3 bundles"...you need rubber bands around at least two groups, to say there are 3 groups. Otherwise you would just say "a mass" or "lots of bills" so I guess that supports rubber bands Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #16048 January 22, 2010 Quoteancestralmanor raises an issue I was wondering about recently. There were a number of estimates of total $ at the time of the find. $5800 was common. It's reasonable this was an estimate based on the average # of bills in each bundle, which ckret said was random. But here's what's strange this page http://historical.ha.com/c/press-release.zx?releaseId=1509 connected with the recent auction says Ingram had only 84 bills/fragments. "Ingram found approximately $5,800 of the $200,000 ransom given to the skyjacker, and the FBI later returned a small portion to his family. Ingram owns 84 D.B. Cooper bills and fragments." If Ingram and the insurance company went 50-50, and the FBI only kept 13 or 14 bills, then it doesn't add up..i.e. Brian didn't get enough. Recent account says the FBI has 13 http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-03-31-hijacker-bills_N.htm Brian did give or sell at least one bill very early after he got them. Remember the story of the teacher in the school (Sallislaw, OK) he went to after they left California that I posted? The teacher got a bill for his retired FBI agent dad. back in the thread here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3263447;search_string=ingram%20ebay;#3263447 That bill showed up on ebay around the time of the first Ingram auctions. We discussed it here. So did Brian have more bills before? maybe a small number more than the 84. Or is the 84 wrong? I wonder if it means that the "3 bundles" really didn't have as many bills as the original estimate implied, once they dissected the bundles? ancestral: I think I posted the largest photos (cropped) of the money from both auctions here already. I also posted pictures that someone who actually bought some of the bills, had put on the web. But my point: If the total number of bills in the Brian find was much less than $5800/$20 = 290, then maybe there were no rubber bands? They said only one bundle was missing rubber bands. But even if it was missing a lot of bills, there should be more? 84 + 84 + 13 = 181 bills, not 290. Even allowing for 10% randomness of bills per bundle, compared to the original FBI estimate, it seems too far off. I think we tried to estimate the number of bills from the side thickness of the bundles on the green table photos from 1980. was not conclusive. The 3 bundles were split into 12 stuck-together stacks in those pics. Now would any stuff found by the FBI be included in that $5800 sum? dunno. They reported it as found by Brian. ancestral: Ckret said neither the count per bundle, nor the serial number order per bundle was recorded. He wasn't even clear to us on how the rubber bands secured the bundles. One wrap or two or more? ckret references: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3104370;search_string=serial%20numbers;#3104370 dollar amount = no. of serial numbers matched - this was all pre auction company finding parts of more serial numbers (added about fifteen more?) The $5800 figure is ........... about as accurate as Brian's memory. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #16049 January 22, 2010 Brian has given multiple descriptions. Some conflicting. Brian was a kid in the middle of adults having a . . . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #16050 January 22, 2010 (edit) Arguably, the rubber bands were there, They picked rubber band fragments off back at the apt as the money was drying etc ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 637 638 639 640 641 642 643 644 645 646 647 Next Page 642 of 2570 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 50 50
BruceSmith 3 #16038 January 22, 2010 QuoteQuoteDid you guys see this other thread on him - in trouble yet again http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3781613;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread I guess you just can't keep a bad man down. I still havent ruled him out as Cooper. His telephone alibi isnt convincing to me. 377 Quote I agree, 377. And why does Himms seem to give him credibility, including writing in his book that Mayfield gave important assistance to the FBI's investigation. What kind of assistance, Himms? C'mon, tell us. Plus, Teddy Boy seems like a real dangerous guy. He hasn't just committed one or two offences, but a plethora. Remember, he's a murderer! C'mon! What is this guy's story???? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #16039 January 22, 2010 Quote Amazon, Let me help your memory, Madison Indiana? I am down River but know Madison Well. It might have been Madison..but I am stillnot sure.. it was the only time I was there. A friend at the time put the demo together with this idiot who had the C-180.. It seemd like a good idea at the time. What better way to spend a warm summer day with a water jump... and boat racing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BruceSmith 3 #16040 January 22, 2010 QuoteMaybe Cooper asked for four chutes cause they might be Mayfield pack jobs. 377[/reply Best laugh of the day, 377. Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #16041 January 22, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI think we can rule out petey. Georger will point out that he's not a good match for the sketch. Mouth is too big for one. I wonder how the FBI first ID'd Petey as a suspect? Based on my personal experience in criminal cases it's a mistake to rule out a suspect based on a witness sketch unless there is a HUGE difference. Petey may not be Cooper but he is close enough to the sketch to stay in the suspect pool. 377 I agree. BTW: Petey's clammed up on me again. This is not right. Bruce: Tell Petey that you want to talk about his book. I think I may be the only person on the planet who's paid money for his book. I paid $25. And I can't get to talk to the author? Why write a book if you don't want to discuss it with your readers? This is like J. D. Salinger? We're supposed to guess at the themes? I've done a lot of guessing, and shit, it's about time the author speaks! He's going to be dead soon. (age: consult actuarial tables for prediction) Then where will I be? $25 short of of a twenty, shit out of luck, stuck in the Death Woods after a heli insert by a drunk unlicensed buddy of Jerry's, staring at some piece of shit ebook that I can't figure out. ... with Amazon cackling maniacally next to me as she gimps off into the dark with a leg half sawed off, with me yelling "hey, wait for me"..and all I can hear is her in the distance "..This is like a jump we did in Utah, man I beat the crap out of that rigger too when I got back..." What kind of friggin thread is this? (edit) If that doesn't work, tell him "The Ox Bow Incident" was way f*ing better, anyhow. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #16042 January 22, 2010 He said, "no briefcase," as per Dorwin's commentary. How would Brian Ingram know!? All he has is rumor. Brian Ingram was not a witness to any of this! And. neither was Jerry Thomas - or Jo Weber! (a smart attorney never asks a question he doesnt already know the answer to). Keep track of the fact the Cooper case (including all files) were transferred to Seattle... and the Ingram's interests right along with it - Brian Ingram is not a neutral witness, period. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AncestralManor 0 #16043 January 22, 2010 Quote Brian and I had a delightful, but brief, chat before he put his kids to bed this evening. He said, "no briefcase," as per Dorwin's commentary. Brian and I made a date to talk again soon, after which I will report back. Bruce, Brian's decision to auction off what he still had in the D B Cooper money seems to have resulted in an update to the serial numbers because the folks who prepped the money were able to separate bills that were still stuck together and put some of the scraps together to complete serial numbers. See links below. By comparing photographs of the money when it was found in 1980 with the detailed scans of the remnants that Brian has auctioned off as well as photos of the money that the FBI retains, there are several questions that Brian might particularly help with. How did the FBI estimate the dollar total for the three stacks if many bills were still stuck together? Would the total have been changed if each bill were separately counted in 1980? Might the $5880 total apportioned between Brian, the insurance company & FBI change? Has anyone compared the sequence of the serial numbers as recorded with the cluster of numbers found by Brian? If as some reports state, the money was microfilmed by a machine, then it seems possible that it was bundled in the rubber bands in the sequence it came out of the machine. Were the bundles stacked on top of each other or laying side by side when Brian found them? How deep? Published interviews with Brian seem to indicate right below the surface. Did the FBI bring him back to Tina Bar when they began digging? What are the sources for claims that the rubber bands would or would not have deteriorated completely if they had been wet for more than a few months or years? All of the photos appear to indicate only the lacy rotting damage to the money. Not any sort of sand or water friction and grinding. Did Brian see any evidence of other bills with the more traumatic grinding damage? Brian's web site (only links to images of the 1st 15 bills he sold in 2008) http://www.dbcoopermoney.com/ Info on serial number update http://www.coinnews.net/2008/02/27/pcgs-currency-notifies-fbi-of-d-b-cooper-serial-numbers-3953/ "scraps as small as pennies, along with the 13 half-bills and nearly 20 full bills he owns" http://www.katu.com/news/weird/12985152.html 38 auction images - front and back with FBI inspection initials http://historical.ha.com/common/auction/pricesrealized.php?src=collection&ID=&optGlobalSearch=&globalSiteDropdown=historical&cboDenomination=All%3A&cboSaleNo=&txtSearch=%22d.+b.+cooper%22&cmdSearch=Search+Auction+Archives&chkFullSearch=1&hdnSearch=True&txtLotNo=&stage=1 Citizen sleuth speculation reports http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2009/03/amateur_detectives_fish_for_db.html Thanks! AncestralManor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #16044 January 22, 2010 okay there's so many new posters, I'll throw out my idea for page 666, where 377 has to be the first post. Here's how to make it even better. On page 665, everyone is required to post only once. Think of it like a 25-way formation. We don't get to advance to page 666 unless there are 25 unique posters on page 665. So 366 makes it complete with the 26 way, on the start of page 666. So then everyone's in. Plus. We have to get 25 unique posters. Plus. Anyone can screw it up by posting twice on page 665. Kind of boosts the failure probability. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #16045 January 22, 2010 I would remind everyone, that Tom Kaye is just a frontman put out there to deceive the public, and I, Snowmman, am the president-for-life of the Citizen's Sleuth Group. The proof is that no one else claims the same position, and the CSG obviously exists. I don't give interviews. Why shouldn't I work for the NSA? That's a tough one, but I'll give it a shot. Say I'm working at NSA. Somebody puts a code on my desk, something nobody else can break. So I take a shot at it and maybe I break it. And I'm real happy with myself because I did my job well. But maybe that code was the location of some rebel army in North Africa or the Middle East. Once they have that location, they bomb the village where the rebels were hiding and 1,500 people I never had a problem with get killed. Now the politicians are saying, 'Send in the marines to secure the area' because they don't give a shit. It won't be their kid over there, getting shot. Just like it wasn't them when their number was called because they were pulling a tour in the National Guard. It'll be some guy from Southie taking shrapnel in the ass. And he comes home to find that the plant he used to work at got exported to the country he just got back from. And the guy who put the shrapnel in his ass got his old job, because he'll work for 15 cents a day and no bathroom breaks. Meanwhile my buddy from Southie realizes the only reason he was over there was so we could install a government that would sell us oil at a good price. And of course the oil companies used the skirmish to scare up oil prices so they could turn a quick buck. A cute little ancillary benefit for them but it ain't helping my buddy at $2.50 a gallon. And naturally they're taking their sweet time bringing the oil back and maybe even took the liberty of hiring an alcoholic skipper who likes to drink martinis and play slalom with the icebergs, and it ain't too long until he hits one, spills the oil and kills all the sea life in the North Atlantic. So my buddy's out of work and he can't afford to drive, so he's got to walk to the job interviews, which sucks because the shrapnel in his ass is giving him chronic hemorrhoids. And meanwhile he's starving because every time he tries to get a bite to eat the only blue plate special they're serving is North Atlantic scrod with Quaker State. So what do I think? I'm holding out for something better. Why not just shoot my buddy, take his job and give it to his sworn enemy, hike up gas prices, bomb a village, club a baby seal, hit the hash pipe and join the National Guard? I could be elected president. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #16046 January 22, 2010 ancestralmanor raises an issue I was wondering about recently. There were a number of estimates of total $ at the time of the find. $5800 was common. It's reasonable this was an estimate based on the average # of bills in each bundle, which ckret said was random. But here's what's strange this page http://historical.ha.com/c/press-release.zx?releaseId=1509 connected with the recent auction says Ingram had only 84 bills/fragments. "Ingram found approximately $5,800 of the $200,000 ransom given to the skyjacker, and the FBI later returned a small portion to his family. Ingram owns 84 D.B. Cooper bills and fragments." If Ingram and the insurance company went 50-50, and the FBI only kept 13 or 14 bills, then it doesn't add up..i.e. Brian didn't get enough. Recent account says the FBI has 13 http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-03-31-hijacker-bills_N.htm Brian did give or sell at least one bill very early after he got them. Remember the story of the teacher in the school (Sallislaw, OK) he went to after they left California that I posted? The teacher got a bill for his retired FBI agent dad. back in the thread here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3263447;search_string=ingram%20ebay;#3263447 That bill showed up on ebay around the time of the first Ingram auctions. We discussed it here. So did Brian have more bills before? maybe a small number more than the 84. Or is the 84 wrong? I wonder if it means that the "3 bundles" really didn't have as many bills as the original estimate implied, once they dissected the bundles? ancestral: I think I posted the largest photos (cropped) of the money from both auctions here already. I also posted pictures that someone who actually bought some of the bills, had put on the web. But my point: If the total number of bills in the Brian find was much less than $5800/$20 = 290, then maybe there were no rubber bands? They said only one bundle was missing rubber bands. But even if it was missing a lot of bills, there should be more? 84 + 84 + 13 = 181 bills, not 290. Even allowing for 10% randomness of bills per bundle, compared to the original FBI estimate, it seems too far off. I think we tried to estimate the number of bills from the side thickness of the bundles on the green table photos from 1980. was not conclusive. The 3 bundles were split into 12 stuck-together stacks in those pics. Now would any stuff found by the FBI be included in that $5800 sum? dunno. They reported it as found by Brian. ancestral: Ckret said neither the count per bundle, nor the serial number order per bundle was recorded. He wasn't even clear to us on how the rubber bands secured the bundles. One wrap or two or more? (remember the FBI never saw the rubber bands, though). ckret references: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3104370;search_string=serial%20numbers;#3104370 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #16047 January 22, 2010 manor person asked: "Were the bundles stacked on top of each other or laying side by side when Brian found them? How deep?" Brian has given multiple descriptions. Some conflicting. I think his description of all 3 bundles stuck together (i read as on top of each other..they wouldn't stick otherwise)...is the most consistent. (edit) Arguably, the rubber bands were there, if they were all stuck together, otherwise why would they say "3 bundles"...you need rubber bands around at least two groups, to say there are 3 groups. Otherwise you would just say "a mass" or "lots of bills" so I guess that supports rubber bands Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #16048 January 22, 2010 Quoteancestralmanor raises an issue I was wondering about recently. There were a number of estimates of total $ at the time of the find. $5800 was common. It's reasonable this was an estimate based on the average # of bills in each bundle, which ckret said was random. But here's what's strange this page http://historical.ha.com/c/press-release.zx?releaseId=1509 connected with the recent auction says Ingram had only 84 bills/fragments. "Ingram found approximately $5,800 of the $200,000 ransom given to the skyjacker, and the FBI later returned a small portion to his family. Ingram owns 84 D.B. Cooper bills and fragments." If Ingram and the insurance company went 50-50, and the FBI only kept 13 or 14 bills, then it doesn't add up..i.e. Brian didn't get enough. Recent account says the FBI has 13 http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-03-31-hijacker-bills_N.htm Brian did give or sell at least one bill very early after he got them. Remember the story of the teacher in the school (Sallislaw, OK) he went to after they left California that I posted? The teacher got a bill for his retired FBI agent dad. back in the thread here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3263447;search_string=ingram%20ebay;#3263447 That bill showed up on ebay around the time of the first Ingram auctions. We discussed it here. So did Brian have more bills before? maybe a small number more than the 84. Or is the 84 wrong? I wonder if it means that the "3 bundles" really didn't have as many bills as the original estimate implied, once they dissected the bundles? ancestral: I think I posted the largest photos (cropped) of the money from both auctions here already. I also posted pictures that someone who actually bought some of the bills, had put on the web. But my point: If the total number of bills in the Brian find was much less than $5800/$20 = 290, then maybe there were no rubber bands? They said only one bundle was missing rubber bands. But even if it was missing a lot of bills, there should be more? 84 + 84 + 13 = 181 bills, not 290. Even allowing for 10% randomness of bills per bundle, compared to the original FBI estimate, it seems too far off. I think we tried to estimate the number of bills from the side thickness of the bundles on the green table photos from 1980. was not conclusive. The 3 bundles were split into 12 stuck-together stacks in those pics. Now would any stuff found by the FBI be included in that $5800 sum? dunno. They reported it as found by Brian. ancestral: Ckret said neither the count per bundle, nor the serial number order per bundle was recorded. He wasn't even clear to us on how the rubber bands secured the bundles. One wrap or two or more? ckret references: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3104370;search_string=serial%20numbers;#3104370 dollar amount = no. of serial numbers matched - this was all pre auction company finding parts of more serial numbers (added about fifteen more?) The $5800 figure is ........... about as accurate as Brian's memory. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #16049 January 22, 2010 Brian has given multiple descriptions. Some conflicting. Brian was a kid in the middle of adults having a . . . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #16050 January 22, 2010 (edit) Arguably, the rubber bands were there, They picked rubber band fragments off back at the apt as the money was drying etc ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #16039 January 22, 2010 Quote Amazon, Let me help your memory, Madison Indiana? I am down River but know Madison Well. It might have been Madison..but I am stillnot sure.. it was the only time I was there. A friend at the time put the demo together with this idiot who had the C-180.. It seemd like a good idea at the time. What better way to spend a warm summer day with a water jump... and boat racing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BruceSmith 3 #16040 January 22, 2010 QuoteMaybe Cooper asked for four chutes cause they might be Mayfield pack jobs. 377[/reply Best laugh of the day, 377. Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #16041 January 22, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI think we can rule out petey. Georger will point out that he's not a good match for the sketch. Mouth is too big for one. I wonder how the FBI first ID'd Petey as a suspect? Based on my personal experience in criminal cases it's a mistake to rule out a suspect based on a witness sketch unless there is a HUGE difference. Petey may not be Cooper but he is close enough to the sketch to stay in the suspect pool. 377 I agree. BTW: Petey's clammed up on me again. This is not right. Bruce: Tell Petey that you want to talk about his book. I think I may be the only person on the planet who's paid money for his book. I paid $25. And I can't get to talk to the author? Why write a book if you don't want to discuss it with your readers? This is like J. D. Salinger? We're supposed to guess at the themes? I've done a lot of guessing, and shit, it's about time the author speaks! He's going to be dead soon. (age: consult actuarial tables for prediction) Then where will I be? $25 short of of a twenty, shit out of luck, stuck in the Death Woods after a heli insert by a drunk unlicensed buddy of Jerry's, staring at some piece of shit ebook that I can't figure out. ... with Amazon cackling maniacally next to me as she gimps off into the dark with a leg half sawed off, with me yelling "hey, wait for me"..and all I can hear is her in the distance "..This is like a jump we did in Utah, man I beat the crap out of that rigger too when I got back..." What kind of friggin thread is this? (edit) If that doesn't work, tell him "The Ox Bow Incident" was way f*ing better, anyhow. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #16042 January 22, 2010 He said, "no briefcase," as per Dorwin's commentary. How would Brian Ingram know!? All he has is rumor. Brian Ingram was not a witness to any of this! And. neither was Jerry Thomas - or Jo Weber! (a smart attorney never asks a question he doesnt already know the answer to). Keep track of the fact the Cooper case (including all files) were transferred to Seattle... and the Ingram's interests right along with it - Brian Ingram is not a neutral witness, period. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AncestralManor 0 #16043 January 22, 2010 Quote Brian and I had a delightful, but brief, chat before he put his kids to bed this evening. He said, "no briefcase," as per Dorwin's commentary. Brian and I made a date to talk again soon, after which I will report back. Bruce, Brian's decision to auction off what he still had in the D B Cooper money seems to have resulted in an update to the serial numbers because the folks who prepped the money were able to separate bills that were still stuck together and put some of the scraps together to complete serial numbers. See links below. By comparing photographs of the money when it was found in 1980 with the detailed scans of the remnants that Brian has auctioned off as well as photos of the money that the FBI retains, there are several questions that Brian might particularly help with. How did the FBI estimate the dollar total for the three stacks if many bills were still stuck together? Would the total have been changed if each bill were separately counted in 1980? Might the $5880 total apportioned between Brian, the insurance company & FBI change? Has anyone compared the sequence of the serial numbers as recorded with the cluster of numbers found by Brian? If as some reports state, the money was microfilmed by a machine, then it seems possible that it was bundled in the rubber bands in the sequence it came out of the machine. Were the bundles stacked on top of each other or laying side by side when Brian found them? How deep? Published interviews with Brian seem to indicate right below the surface. Did the FBI bring him back to Tina Bar when they began digging? What are the sources for claims that the rubber bands would or would not have deteriorated completely if they had been wet for more than a few months or years? All of the photos appear to indicate only the lacy rotting damage to the money. Not any sort of sand or water friction and grinding. Did Brian see any evidence of other bills with the more traumatic grinding damage? Brian's web site (only links to images of the 1st 15 bills he sold in 2008) http://www.dbcoopermoney.com/ Info on serial number update http://www.coinnews.net/2008/02/27/pcgs-currency-notifies-fbi-of-d-b-cooper-serial-numbers-3953/ "scraps as small as pennies, along with the 13 half-bills and nearly 20 full bills he owns" http://www.katu.com/news/weird/12985152.html 38 auction images - front and back with FBI inspection initials http://historical.ha.com/common/auction/pricesrealized.php?src=collection&ID=&optGlobalSearch=&globalSiteDropdown=historical&cboDenomination=All%3A&cboSaleNo=&txtSearch=%22d.+b.+cooper%22&cmdSearch=Search+Auction+Archives&chkFullSearch=1&hdnSearch=True&txtLotNo=&stage=1 Citizen sleuth speculation reports http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2009/03/amateur_detectives_fish_for_db.html Thanks! AncestralManor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #16044 January 22, 2010 okay there's so many new posters, I'll throw out my idea for page 666, where 377 has to be the first post. Here's how to make it even better. On page 665, everyone is required to post only once. Think of it like a 25-way formation. We don't get to advance to page 666 unless there are 25 unique posters on page 665. So 366 makes it complete with the 26 way, on the start of page 666. So then everyone's in. Plus. We have to get 25 unique posters. Plus. Anyone can screw it up by posting twice on page 665. Kind of boosts the failure probability. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #16045 January 22, 2010 I would remind everyone, that Tom Kaye is just a frontman put out there to deceive the public, and I, Snowmman, am the president-for-life of the Citizen's Sleuth Group. The proof is that no one else claims the same position, and the CSG obviously exists. I don't give interviews. Why shouldn't I work for the NSA? That's a tough one, but I'll give it a shot. Say I'm working at NSA. Somebody puts a code on my desk, something nobody else can break. So I take a shot at it and maybe I break it. And I'm real happy with myself because I did my job well. But maybe that code was the location of some rebel army in North Africa or the Middle East. Once they have that location, they bomb the village where the rebels were hiding and 1,500 people I never had a problem with get killed. Now the politicians are saying, 'Send in the marines to secure the area' because they don't give a shit. It won't be their kid over there, getting shot. Just like it wasn't them when their number was called because they were pulling a tour in the National Guard. It'll be some guy from Southie taking shrapnel in the ass. And he comes home to find that the plant he used to work at got exported to the country he just got back from. And the guy who put the shrapnel in his ass got his old job, because he'll work for 15 cents a day and no bathroom breaks. Meanwhile my buddy from Southie realizes the only reason he was over there was so we could install a government that would sell us oil at a good price. And of course the oil companies used the skirmish to scare up oil prices so they could turn a quick buck. A cute little ancillary benefit for them but it ain't helping my buddy at $2.50 a gallon. And naturally they're taking their sweet time bringing the oil back and maybe even took the liberty of hiring an alcoholic skipper who likes to drink martinis and play slalom with the icebergs, and it ain't too long until he hits one, spills the oil and kills all the sea life in the North Atlantic. So my buddy's out of work and he can't afford to drive, so he's got to walk to the job interviews, which sucks because the shrapnel in his ass is giving him chronic hemorrhoids. And meanwhile he's starving because every time he tries to get a bite to eat the only blue plate special they're serving is North Atlantic scrod with Quaker State. So what do I think? I'm holding out for something better. Why not just shoot my buddy, take his job and give it to his sworn enemy, hike up gas prices, bomb a village, club a baby seal, hit the hash pipe and join the National Guard? I could be elected president. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #16046 January 22, 2010 ancestralmanor raises an issue I was wondering about recently. There were a number of estimates of total $ at the time of the find. $5800 was common. It's reasonable this was an estimate based on the average # of bills in each bundle, which ckret said was random. But here's what's strange this page http://historical.ha.com/c/press-release.zx?releaseId=1509 connected with the recent auction says Ingram had only 84 bills/fragments. "Ingram found approximately $5,800 of the $200,000 ransom given to the skyjacker, and the FBI later returned a small portion to his family. Ingram owns 84 D.B. Cooper bills and fragments." If Ingram and the insurance company went 50-50, and the FBI only kept 13 or 14 bills, then it doesn't add up..i.e. Brian didn't get enough. Recent account says the FBI has 13 http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-03-31-hijacker-bills_N.htm Brian did give or sell at least one bill very early after he got them. Remember the story of the teacher in the school (Sallislaw, OK) he went to after they left California that I posted? The teacher got a bill for his retired FBI agent dad. back in the thread here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3263447;search_string=ingram%20ebay;#3263447 That bill showed up on ebay around the time of the first Ingram auctions. We discussed it here. So did Brian have more bills before? maybe a small number more than the 84. Or is the 84 wrong? I wonder if it means that the "3 bundles" really didn't have as many bills as the original estimate implied, once they dissected the bundles? ancestral: I think I posted the largest photos (cropped) of the money from both auctions here already. I also posted pictures that someone who actually bought some of the bills, had put on the web. But my point: If the total number of bills in the Brian find was much less than $5800/$20 = 290, then maybe there were no rubber bands? They said only one bundle was missing rubber bands. But even if it was missing a lot of bills, there should be more? 84 + 84 + 13 = 181 bills, not 290. Even allowing for 10% randomness of bills per bundle, compared to the original FBI estimate, it seems too far off. I think we tried to estimate the number of bills from the side thickness of the bundles on the green table photos from 1980. was not conclusive. The 3 bundles were split into 12 stuck-together stacks in those pics. Now would any stuff found by the FBI be included in that $5800 sum? dunno. They reported it as found by Brian. ancestral: Ckret said neither the count per bundle, nor the serial number order per bundle was recorded. He wasn't even clear to us on how the rubber bands secured the bundles. One wrap or two or more? (remember the FBI never saw the rubber bands, though). ckret references: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3104370;search_string=serial%20numbers;#3104370 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #16047 January 22, 2010 manor person asked: "Were the bundles stacked on top of each other or laying side by side when Brian found them? How deep?" Brian has given multiple descriptions. Some conflicting. I think his description of all 3 bundles stuck together (i read as on top of each other..they wouldn't stick otherwise)...is the most consistent. (edit) Arguably, the rubber bands were there, if they were all stuck together, otherwise why would they say "3 bundles"...you need rubber bands around at least two groups, to say there are 3 groups. Otherwise you would just say "a mass" or "lots of bills" so I guess that supports rubber bands Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #16048 January 22, 2010 Quoteancestralmanor raises an issue I was wondering about recently. There were a number of estimates of total $ at the time of the find. $5800 was common. It's reasonable this was an estimate based on the average # of bills in each bundle, which ckret said was random. But here's what's strange this page http://historical.ha.com/c/press-release.zx?releaseId=1509 connected with the recent auction says Ingram had only 84 bills/fragments. "Ingram found approximately $5,800 of the $200,000 ransom given to the skyjacker, and the FBI later returned a small portion to his family. Ingram owns 84 D.B. Cooper bills and fragments." If Ingram and the insurance company went 50-50, and the FBI only kept 13 or 14 bills, then it doesn't add up..i.e. Brian didn't get enough. Recent account says the FBI has 13 http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-03-31-hijacker-bills_N.htm Brian did give or sell at least one bill very early after he got them. Remember the story of the teacher in the school (Sallislaw, OK) he went to after they left California that I posted? The teacher got a bill for his retired FBI agent dad. back in the thread here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3263447;search_string=ingram%20ebay;#3263447 That bill showed up on ebay around the time of the first Ingram auctions. We discussed it here. So did Brian have more bills before? maybe a small number more than the 84. Or is the 84 wrong? I wonder if it means that the "3 bundles" really didn't have as many bills as the original estimate implied, once they dissected the bundles? ancestral: I think I posted the largest photos (cropped) of the money from both auctions here already. I also posted pictures that someone who actually bought some of the bills, had put on the web. But my point: If the total number of bills in the Brian find was much less than $5800/$20 = 290, then maybe there were no rubber bands? They said only one bundle was missing rubber bands. But even if it was missing a lot of bills, there should be more? 84 + 84 + 13 = 181 bills, not 290. Even allowing for 10% randomness of bills per bundle, compared to the original FBI estimate, it seems too far off. I think we tried to estimate the number of bills from the side thickness of the bundles on the green table photos from 1980. was not conclusive. The 3 bundles were split into 12 stuck-together stacks in those pics. Now would any stuff found by the FBI be included in that $5800 sum? dunno. They reported it as found by Brian. ancestral: Ckret said neither the count per bundle, nor the serial number order per bundle was recorded. He wasn't even clear to us on how the rubber bands secured the bundles. One wrap or two or more? ckret references: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3104370;search_string=serial%20numbers;#3104370 dollar amount = no. of serial numbers matched - this was all pre auction company finding parts of more serial numbers (added about fifteen more?) The $5800 figure is ........... about as accurate as Brian's memory. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #16049 January 22, 2010 Brian has given multiple descriptions. Some conflicting. Brian was a kid in the middle of adults having a . . . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowmman 3 #16041 January 22, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI think we can rule out petey. Georger will point out that he's not a good match for the sketch. Mouth is too big for one. I wonder how the FBI first ID'd Petey as a suspect? Based on my personal experience in criminal cases it's a mistake to rule out a suspect based on a witness sketch unless there is a HUGE difference. Petey may not be Cooper but he is close enough to the sketch to stay in the suspect pool. 377 I agree. BTW: Petey's clammed up on me again. This is not right. Bruce: Tell Petey that you want to talk about his book. I think I may be the only person on the planet who's paid money for his book. I paid $25. And I can't get to talk to the author? Why write a book if you don't want to discuss it with your readers? This is like J. D. Salinger? We're supposed to guess at the themes? I've done a lot of guessing, and shit, it's about time the author speaks! He's going to be dead soon. (age: consult actuarial tables for prediction) Then where will I be? $25 short of of a twenty, shit out of luck, stuck in the Death Woods after a heli insert by a drunk unlicensed buddy of Jerry's, staring at some piece of shit ebook that I can't figure out. ... with Amazon cackling maniacally next to me as she gimps off into the dark with a leg half sawed off, with me yelling "hey, wait for me"..and all I can hear is her in the distance "..This is like a jump we did in Utah, man I beat the crap out of that rigger too when I got back..." What kind of friggin thread is this? (edit) If that doesn't work, tell him "The Ox Bow Incident" was way f*ing better, anyhow. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #16042 January 22, 2010 He said, "no briefcase," as per Dorwin's commentary. How would Brian Ingram know!? All he has is rumor. Brian Ingram was not a witness to any of this! And. neither was Jerry Thomas - or Jo Weber! (a smart attorney never asks a question he doesnt already know the answer to). Keep track of the fact the Cooper case (including all files) were transferred to Seattle... and the Ingram's interests right along with it - Brian Ingram is not a neutral witness, period. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #16042 January 22, 2010 He said, "no briefcase," as per Dorwin's commentary. How would Brian Ingram know!? All he has is rumor. Brian Ingram was not a witness to any of this! And. neither was Jerry Thomas - or Jo Weber! (a smart attorney never asks a question he doesnt already know the answer to). Keep track of the fact the Cooper case (including all files) were transferred to Seattle... and the Ingram's interests right along with it - Brian Ingram is not a neutral witness, period. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AncestralManor 0 #16043 January 22, 2010 Quote Brian and I had a delightful, but brief, chat before he put his kids to bed this evening. He said, "no briefcase," as per Dorwin's commentary. Brian and I made a date to talk again soon, after which I will report back. Bruce, Brian's decision to auction off what he still had in the D B Cooper money seems to have resulted in an update to the serial numbers because the folks who prepped the money were able to separate bills that were still stuck together and put some of the scraps together to complete serial numbers. See links below. By comparing photographs of the money when it was found in 1980 with the detailed scans of the remnants that Brian has auctioned off as well as photos of the money that the FBI retains, there are several questions that Brian might particularly help with. How did the FBI estimate the dollar total for the three stacks if many bills were still stuck together? Would the total have been changed if each bill were separately counted in 1980? Might the $5880 total apportioned between Brian, the insurance company & FBI change? Has anyone compared the sequence of the serial numbers as recorded with the cluster of numbers found by Brian? If as some reports state, the money was microfilmed by a machine, then it seems possible that it was bundled in the rubber bands in the sequence it came out of the machine. Were the bundles stacked on top of each other or laying side by side when Brian found them? How deep? Published interviews with Brian seem to indicate right below the surface. Did the FBI bring him back to Tina Bar when they began digging? What are the sources for claims that the rubber bands would or would not have deteriorated completely if they had been wet for more than a few months or years? All of the photos appear to indicate only the lacy rotting damage to the money. Not any sort of sand or water friction and grinding. Did Brian see any evidence of other bills with the more traumatic grinding damage? Brian's web site (only links to images of the 1st 15 bills he sold in 2008) http://www.dbcoopermoney.com/ Info on serial number update http://www.coinnews.net/2008/02/27/pcgs-currency-notifies-fbi-of-d-b-cooper-serial-numbers-3953/ "scraps as small as pennies, along with the 13 half-bills and nearly 20 full bills he owns" http://www.katu.com/news/weird/12985152.html 38 auction images - front and back with FBI inspection initials http://historical.ha.com/common/auction/pricesrealized.php?src=collection&ID=&optGlobalSearch=&globalSiteDropdown=historical&cboDenomination=All%3A&cboSaleNo=&txtSearch=%22d.+b.+cooper%22&cmdSearch=Search+Auction+Archives&chkFullSearch=1&hdnSearch=True&txtLotNo=&stage=1 Citizen sleuth speculation reports http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2009/03/amateur_detectives_fish_for_db.html Thanks! AncestralManor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowmman 3 #16044 January 22, 2010 okay there's so many new posters, I'll throw out my idea for page 666, where 377 has to be the first post. Here's how to make it even better. On page 665, everyone is required to post only once. Think of it like a 25-way formation. We don't get to advance to page 666 unless there are 25 unique posters on page 665. So 366 makes it complete with the 26 way, on the start of page 666. So then everyone's in. Plus. We have to get 25 unique posters. Plus. Anyone can screw it up by posting twice on page 665. Kind of boosts the failure probability. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowmman 3 #16045 January 22, 2010 I would remind everyone, that Tom Kaye is just a frontman put out there to deceive the public, and I, Snowmman, am the president-for-life of the Citizen's Sleuth Group. The proof is that no one else claims the same position, and the CSG obviously exists. I don't give interviews. Why shouldn't I work for the NSA? That's a tough one, but I'll give it a shot. Say I'm working at NSA. Somebody puts a code on my desk, something nobody else can break. So I take a shot at it and maybe I break it. And I'm real happy with myself because I did my job well. But maybe that code was the location of some rebel army in North Africa or the Middle East. Once they have that location, they bomb the village where the rebels were hiding and 1,500 people I never had a problem with get killed. Now the politicians are saying, 'Send in the marines to secure the area' because they don't give a shit. It won't be their kid over there, getting shot. Just like it wasn't them when their number was called because they were pulling a tour in the National Guard. It'll be some guy from Southie taking shrapnel in the ass. And he comes home to find that the plant he used to work at got exported to the country he just got back from. And the guy who put the shrapnel in his ass got his old job, because he'll work for 15 cents a day and no bathroom breaks. Meanwhile my buddy from Southie realizes the only reason he was over there was so we could install a government that would sell us oil at a good price. And of course the oil companies used the skirmish to scare up oil prices so they could turn a quick buck. A cute little ancillary benefit for them but it ain't helping my buddy at $2.50 a gallon. And naturally they're taking their sweet time bringing the oil back and maybe even took the liberty of hiring an alcoholic skipper who likes to drink martinis and play slalom with the icebergs, and it ain't too long until he hits one, spills the oil and kills all the sea life in the North Atlantic. So my buddy's out of work and he can't afford to drive, so he's got to walk to the job interviews, which sucks because the shrapnel in his ass is giving him chronic hemorrhoids. And meanwhile he's starving because every time he tries to get a bite to eat the only blue plate special they're serving is North Atlantic scrod with Quaker State. So what do I think? I'm holding out for something better. Why not just shoot my buddy, take his job and give it to his sworn enemy, hike up gas prices, bomb a village, club a baby seal, hit the hash pipe and join the National Guard? I could be elected president. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowmman 3 #16046 January 22, 2010 ancestralmanor raises an issue I was wondering about recently. There were a number of estimates of total $ at the time of the find. $5800 was common. It's reasonable this was an estimate based on the average # of bills in each bundle, which ckret said was random. But here's what's strange this page http://historical.ha.com/c/press-release.zx?releaseId=1509 connected with the recent auction says Ingram had only 84 bills/fragments. "Ingram found approximately $5,800 of the $200,000 ransom given to the skyjacker, and the FBI later returned a small portion to his family. Ingram owns 84 D.B. Cooper bills and fragments." If Ingram and the insurance company went 50-50, and the FBI only kept 13 or 14 bills, then it doesn't add up..i.e. Brian didn't get enough. Recent account says the FBI has 13 http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-03-31-hijacker-bills_N.htm Brian did give or sell at least one bill very early after he got them. Remember the story of the teacher in the school (Sallislaw, OK) he went to after they left California that I posted? The teacher got a bill for his retired FBI agent dad. back in the thread here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3263447;search_string=ingram%20ebay;#3263447 That bill showed up on ebay around the time of the first Ingram auctions. We discussed it here. So did Brian have more bills before? maybe a small number more than the 84. Or is the 84 wrong? I wonder if it means that the "3 bundles" really didn't have as many bills as the original estimate implied, once they dissected the bundles? ancestral: I think I posted the largest photos (cropped) of the money from both auctions here already. I also posted pictures that someone who actually bought some of the bills, had put on the web. But my point: If the total number of bills in the Brian find was much less than $5800/$20 = 290, then maybe there were no rubber bands? They said only one bundle was missing rubber bands. But even if it was missing a lot of bills, there should be more? 84 + 84 + 13 = 181 bills, not 290. Even allowing for 10% randomness of bills per bundle, compared to the original FBI estimate, it seems too far off. I think we tried to estimate the number of bills from the side thickness of the bundles on the green table photos from 1980. was not conclusive. The 3 bundles were split into 12 stuck-together stacks in those pics. Now would any stuff found by the FBI be included in that $5800 sum? dunno. They reported it as found by Brian. ancestral: Ckret said neither the count per bundle, nor the serial number order per bundle was recorded. He wasn't even clear to us on how the rubber bands secured the bundles. One wrap or two or more? (remember the FBI never saw the rubber bands, though). ckret references: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3104370;search_string=serial%20numbers;#3104370 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowmman 3 #16047 January 22, 2010 manor person asked: "Were the bundles stacked on top of each other or laying side by side when Brian found them? How deep?" Brian has given multiple descriptions. Some conflicting. I think his description of all 3 bundles stuck together (i read as on top of each other..they wouldn't stick otherwise)...is the most consistent. (edit) Arguably, the rubber bands were there, if they were all stuck together, otherwise why would they say "3 bundles"...you need rubber bands around at least two groups, to say there are 3 groups. Otherwise you would just say "a mass" or "lots of bills" so I guess that supports rubber bands Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #16048 January 22, 2010 Quoteancestralmanor raises an issue I was wondering about recently. There were a number of estimates of total $ at the time of the find. $5800 was common. It's reasonable this was an estimate based on the average # of bills in each bundle, which ckret said was random. But here's what's strange this page http://historical.ha.com/c/press-release.zx?releaseId=1509 connected with the recent auction says Ingram had only 84 bills/fragments. "Ingram found approximately $5,800 of the $200,000 ransom given to the skyjacker, and the FBI later returned a small portion to his family. Ingram owns 84 D.B. Cooper bills and fragments." If Ingram and the insurance company went 50-50, and the FBI only kept 13 or 14 bills, then it doesn't add up..i.e. Brian didn't get enough. Recent account says the FBI has 13 http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-03-31-hijacker-bills_N.htm Brian did give or sell at least one bill very early after he got them. Remember the story of the teacher in the school (Sallislaw, OK) he went to after they left California that I posted? The teacher got a bill for his retired FBI agent dad. back in the thread here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3263447;search_string=ingram%20ebay;#3263447 That bill showed up on ebay around the time of the first Ingram auctions. We discussed it here. So did Brian have more bills before? maybe a small number more than the 84. Or is the 84 wrong? I wonder if it means that the "3 bundles" really didn't have as many bills as the original estimate implied, once they dissected the bundles? ancestral: I think I posted the largest photos (cropped) of the money from both auctions here already. I also posted pictures that someone who actually bought some of the bills, had put on the web. But my point: If the total number of bills in the Brian find was much less than $5800/$20 = 290, then maybe there were no rubber bands? They said only one bundle was missing rubber bands. But even if it was missing a lot of bills, there should be more? 84 + 84 + 13 = 181 bills, not 290. Even allowing for 10% randomness of bills per bundle, compared to the original FBI estimate, it seems too far off. I think we tried to estimate the number of bills from the side thickness of the bundles on the green table photos from 1980. was not conclusive. The 3 bundles were split into 12 stuck-together stacks in those pics. Now would any stuff found by the FBI be included in that $5800 sum? dunno. They reported it as found by Brian. ancestral: Ckret said neither the count per bundle, nor the serial number order per bundle was recorded. He wasn't even clear to us on how the rubber bands secured the bundles. One wrap or two or more? ckret references: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3104370;search_string=serial%20numbers;#3104370 dollar amount = no. of serial numbers matched - this was all pre auction company finding parts of more serial numbers (added about fifteen more?) The $5800 figure is ........... about as accurate as Brian's memory. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #16049 January 22, 2010 Brian has given multiple descriptions. Some conflicting. Brian was a kid in the middle of adults having a . . . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #16050 January 22, 2010 (edit) Arguably, the rubber bands were there, They picked rubber band fragments off back at the apt as the money was drying etc ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
