snowmman 3
Recommended Posts
georger 244
QuoteQuote
(edit) Arguably, the rubber bands were there,
They picked rubber band fragments off back at
the apt as the money was drying etc ...
ah good info, thanks georger.
I always thought the description was they crumbled at the touch, so they disappeared at the beach. It makes more sense that they are confident of the rubber bands if there were fragments still when they got home and could see without the sand.
'crumbled at the touch' is a metaphor. The brands
had crystalised, with molecular fractures. Some brittle pieces flaked off the bills and crumbled when rolled between the fingers, other pieces stayed adhered to the outside bills - but adhered is also
relative. Keep in mind the paper was wet and
deteriorated. During the gooey stage some bands
(soaked into) and adhered to the cotton fibres of the bills, then crystalised to adhere permanently.
In picking some of these band fragments off the
bills the Ingrams actualy pulled cotton fibres off
the paper - that is easily visible ....
georger 244
QuoteWe saw how the FBI stored the money.
I just found this picture of Laura A. Kessler examining Ingram's money at pcgs, and realized she's looking at a brown photo album with plastic sleeves of some kind, that brian must have used to store the money.
PCGS put each bill in individual protection after they got them, before the auction. So the brown album must be Brian's original storage.
from http://www.pcgs.com/articles/article_view.chtml?artid=5244
attached
Exactly who and where was the money presented
to Brian for his final selection? Brian might know
that ... whoever it was and whatever the final
process it certainly was not forensic if Brian walked
away with serial numbers the FBI had not even recovered!
God only knows what the insurance company has!
How did a Court supervise an unknown?
snowmman 3
QuoteQuoteWe saw how the FBI stored the money.
I just found this picture of Laura A. Kessler examining Ingram's money at pcgs, and realized she's looking at a brown photo album with plastic sleeves of some kind, that brian must have used to store the money.
PCGS put each bill in individual protection after they got them, before the auction. So the brown album must be Brian's original storage.
from http://www.pcgs.com/articles/article_view.chtml?artid=5244
attached
Exactly who and where was the money presented
to Brian for his final selection? Brian might know
that ... whoever it was and whatever the final
process it certainly was not forensic if Brian walked
away with serial numbers the FBI had not even recovered!
God only knows what the insurance company has!
How did a Court supervise an unknown?
We talked about the person that represented the Insurance company at the money split before.
It was Globe Indemnity Co. represented by lawyer
I think he still has a practice up there in WA or OR.
I could dig up his probable contact and maybe Bruce could contact him? I'm not sure if it would be useful though?
articles said he got $2760 out of the $5800
http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=FB&p_theme=fb&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_topdoc=1&p_text_direct-0=0EAE7ED3B2951562&p_field_direct-0=document_id&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM
Evidently brian's plane was late for the money presentation, and there were just a lawyer for brian and for the insurance company at first? (when the money was given up in 1986)
elsewhere it says they split $5520 with the FBI keeping $280 (14 bills...like I say, some say the FBI got 13)
The insurance company lawyer was Stephen P. Rickles
(edit) fixed link
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=K2gVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=MOEDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3291,2764266&dq=brian-ingram+indemnity+lawyer&hl=en
This Stephen P. Rickles graduated with his JD in 1979
http://www.rickles-law.com/rick.att.rickles.html
He was admitted to the Oregon State Bar in 1979
He was a Senior Deputy DA until 1985 apparently
then started working in insurance defense
The firm is based in Portland, OR. (his picture is at the link)
So I'm thinking he might be the guy?
AncestralManor said:
Okay dude! Who the hell are you really, and how/why are you reading my mail?
I want (demand) full disclosure!
Sluggo
---I will stand out, I am a raven in the snow.
Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum
QuoteHas anyone compared the sequence of the serial numbers as recorded with the cluster of numbers found by Brian? If as some reports state, the money was microfilmed by a machine, then it seems possible that it was bundled in the rubber bands in the sequence it came out of the machine.
Okay dude! Who the hell are you really, and how/why are you reading my mail?
I want (demand) full disclosure!
Sluggo
---I will stand out, I am a raven in the snow.
Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum
Re: [Sluggo_Monster] Are you 007?
QuoteAncestralManor said:
QuoteHas anyone compared the sequence of the serial numbers as recorded with the cluster of numbers found by Brian? If as some reports state, the money was microfilmed by a machine, then it seems possible that it was bundled in the rubber bands in the sequence it came out of the machine.
Okay dude! Who the hell are you really, and how/why are you reading my mail?
I want (demand) full disclosure!
Sluggo
---I will stand out, I am a raven in the snow.
Sluggo,
Simply reading this forum and wondering why the discussion doesn't stay with the evidence.
There seems to be no doubt that three bundles of Cooper hijack money was found on 10 Feb 1980 by Brian Ingram on Tina Bar.
Outlining a time line from there, the bills were divided up in June 1986 as the result of a Federal court case in Portland where Tousaw was also apparently involved.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=943&dat=19860611&id=XggPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=sIIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5973,3812994
Should be a contemporaneous public record detailing more about the money find in the Portland federal files - original sources, primary information, much less room for conjecture.
So many ifs have been discussed that they wind around disputing each other - Reductio ad absurdum.
AncestralManor
Please reply to my PM.
I'll say more there.
The pictures have big ears.
Sluggo
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted.
Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum
I'll say more there.
The pictures have big ears.
Sluggo
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted.
Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum
snowmman 3
ancestralmanor: another woman who wants to lecture people about how she's the only one who can see shit.
ancestral: rather than assuming other people are clue-free, just state your case.
If you have no new evidence or viewpoints, why are you accusing others of being clue-free?
she said "Should be a contemporaneous public record detailing more about the money find in the Portland federal files - original sources, primary information, much less room for conjecture. "
So get them.
ancestral: rather than assuming other people are clue-free, just state your case.
If you have no new evidence or viewpoints, why are you accusing others of being clue-free?
she said "Should be a contemporaneous public record detailing more about the money find in the Portland federal files - original sources, primary information, much less room for conjecture. "
So get them.
snowmman 3
ancestralmanor: obviously the right path is to contact Larry Carr, Seattle FBI who has asked for the public's help. I suppose the 2nd step would to get involved in that group of citizen sleuths I read about that's working with the FBI.
Wouldn't that get you all the information?
If not, then where do you go?
Have you contacted Larry?
re serial numbers order
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3100085;search_string=serial%20number;#3100085
"I know what your saying when you write, "the money is in the same order as when it was handed to Cooper" but the order per serial number was never documented. There is no indication the money was re-bundled. "
and intentional random bundling
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3171040;search_string=random;#3171040
"the money was put together in different bill counts so it looked as if it was put together in a hurry. "
Wouldn't that get you all the information?
If not, then where do you go?
Have you contacted Larry?
re serial numbers order
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3100085;search_string=serial%20number;#3100085
"I know what your saying when you write, "the money is in the same order as when it was handed to Cooper" but the order per serial number was never documented. There is no indication the money was re-bundled. "
and intentional random bundling
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3171040;search_string=random;#3171040
"the money was put together in different bill counts so it looked as if it was put together in a hurry. "
Orange1 0
QuoteIs Sluggo's avator a falcon?
If people haven't seen this Nat Geo vid that combines analyzing the dive speed of a peregrine falcon with skydiving...I thought it was way cool. link below.
Has anyone ever been hit by a bird in some way, while skydiving?
Not personally, but we had to do a quick manouevre in the cessna to avoid some high altitude flamingos one day.
Falcons... beautiful things. Love raptors. We have 'adopted' two at a wildlife rehab centre. Some are injured, rehabilitated and are able to be put back into the wild, the ones that were handreared and then abandoned are used for educational shows (they think they are humans, apparently, and could not survive in the wild.) I hadn't seen the natgeo vid before but i've seen the falcons in real life and they are incredible.
p.s. test
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
377 22
Quotebut we had to do a quick manouevre in the cessna to avoid some high altitude flamingos one day.
Like I said, reasonable levels of drugs and alcohol in pilots are OK, enough to see the same Flamingos your jumpers are seeing, but not so much that you cant do a successful evasive maneuver.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
georger 244
well, lets skip-ta-loo to whatQuoteRe: [Sluggo_Monster] Are you 007?
QuoteAncestralManor said:
QuoteHas anyone compared the sequence of the serial numbers as recorded with the cluster of numbers found by Brian? If as some reports state, the money was microfilmed by a machine, then it seems possible that it was bundled in the rubber bands in the sequence it came out of the machine.
Okay dude! Who the hell are you really, and how/why are you reading my mail?
I want (demand) full disclosure!
Sluggo
---I will stand out, I am a raven in the snow.
Sluggo,
Simply reading this forum and wondering why the discussion doesn't stay with the evidence.
There seems to be no doubt that three bundles of Cooper hijack money was found on 10 Feb 1980 by Brian Ingram on Tina Bar.
Outlining a time line from there, the bills were divided up in June 1986 as the result of a Federal court case in Portland where Tousaw was also apparently involved.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=943&dat=19860611&id=XggPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=sIIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5973,3812994
Should be a contemporaneous public record detailing more about the money find in the Portland federal files - original sources, primary information, much less room for conjecture.
So many ifs have been discussed that they wind around disputing each other - Reductio ad absurdum.
AncestralManor
you are really driving at, or part of what you are
hedging at - inflationary style? (Please* dont add more inflation to an already collapsing market!)
If the serial numbers found represent core money,
inside the core of the bag as delivered to Cooper,
wouldnt that mean 'no repacking as per Tina' and
a sure sign of 'original bag vrs briefcase/repacking'
such that core money from the middle of the bag
is what was found at Tina Bar, plus fragments of other bills also?
The poster is trying to nail down what exactly
arrived at Tina Bar, all of the money, some of the
money, core money from the middle of the bag ...
etc. The poster thinks knowing that will imply/prove
all kinds of other things ...
In other words, we have a new logician in the mode
of SafecrackingPLF II.
All of that for starters...
The answer may be: Nobody knows what consequtive
order or where any particular serial number wound
up in the bag, as delivered to Cooper.
But since poster knows more than we do I will just
sit here and wait for knowledge to be delivered,
or witheld and a book written, or rents and inflation
to goup further . . . until each and every one of us has to be an expert to survive on this group and
still know nothing!
Jo has sent this new poster here! ? Is the poster still
driving the same old red truck ?
Do I really care? Must I care?
377 22
Quotequick manouevre in the cessna
What are the chances of getting some bigger jumpships down there Orange, something that a Flamingo will respect. If you keep flying those tin cans they will keep jaywalking right in front of you.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
snowmman 3
QuoteQuotebut we had to do a quick manouevre in the cessna to avoid some high altitude flamingos one day.
Like I said, reasonable levels of drugs and alcohol in pilots are OK, enough to see the same Flamingos your jumpers are seeing, but not so much that you cant do a successful evasive maneuver.
377
Okay I thought it was pretty cool that Orange1 had both a cat story and a falcon story and a flamingo story...but lets get real.
If Amazon told the flamingo story, it would have ended with her grabbing the flamingo in mid-jump, holding onto to it all the way to landing, and then going back to the pilot with it and beating him upside the head and never flying with that bozo again.
:) (I actually love Amazon's stories and want to hear more)
Orange1 0
QuoteQuotebut we had to do a quick manouevre in the cessna to avoid some high altitude flamingos one day.
Like I said, reasonable levels of drugs and alcohol in pilots are OK, enough to see the same Flamingos your jumpers are seeing, but not so much that you cant do a successful evasive maneuver.
377
Yeah, I personally didn't see the flamingos, but the pilot assured me they were. At 7K.
Anyway, he is now flying jumpers in Oregon 
edited to add: the turbines are all upcountry. we'd love one down here. occasionally get hercs (C130) at boogies but i've not yet had the honour of jumping one (the futility of trying to convince my husband that the middle of a semidesert region in midsummer was a good place for a family holiday...)
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
snowmman 3
I was thinking how this thread may seem absurd to a newcomer.
But its absurdity is not because of any one poster.
Every poster has been absurd at some point.
Jo obviously.
Ckret has been absurd.
Sluggo.
Me. Georger. 377....everyone.
It's not possible to not be absurd.
Even SafecrackingPLF was absurd, although he spent a lot of time trying to convince everyone he was the only one who could think things thru.
I thought he jumped the shark when he made a video announcing his thoughts and confidence that Tom Kaye was going to discover something for us...as Tom Kaye ran off with his dinosaur bones into his caves.
Bruce, the trying-to-stay-sober, broken-table-light-and-computer, guy-who-shows-up-at-the-Ariel-party-and-drinks, and talks to everyone, has been the best source of new info, for a while here.
I wonder what new people think when they find out the whole thing the FBI has talked about with "citizen sleuths" is a big lie?
Hey investigate that! How can "The FBI" put something out there that's obviously not true?
And: Why does the FBI (Ckret) push information that's obviously not correct?
Well, because the whole thing is absurd.
Flamingos are on-topic.
But its absurdity is not because of any one poster.
Every poster has been absurd at some point.
Jo obviously.
Ckret has been absurd.
Sluggo.
Me. Georger. 377....everyone.
It's not possible to not be absurd.
Even SafecrackingPLF was absurd, although he spent a lot of time trying to convince everyone he was the only one who could think things thru.
I thought he jumped the shark when he made a video announcing his thoughts and confidence that Tom Kaye was going to discover something for us...as Tom Kaye ran off with his dinosaur bones into his caves.
Bruce, the trying-to-stay-sober, broken-table-light-and-computer, guy-who-shows-up-at-the-Ariel-party-and-drinks, and talks to everyone, has been the best source of new info, for a while here.
I wonder what new people think when they find out the whole thing the FBI has talked about with "citizen sleuths" is a big lie?
Hey investigate that! How can "The FBI" put something out there that's obviously not true?
And: Why does the FBI (Ckret) push information that's obviously not correct?
Well, because the whole thing is absurd.
Flamingos are on-topic.
377 22
QuoteFlamingos are on-topic.
Duck hunters and mudflat fishermen have reported for years seeing an elusive flock of wild Flamingos in obscure sloughs around San Francisco Bay. Bird experts explained it as a combination of fog, pelicans, and hinted at intoxication.
Finally someone got a photo of at least two of them.
Quotehttp://www.sfbbo.org/volunteer/fall03.php
The older and much larger flock is reputed to be just barely pink. I have talked with several fishermen who saw them and said there were at least 20 birds back in the 1980s.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377 22
Quotethe turbines are all upcountry. we'd love one down here. occasionally get hercs (C130) at boogies
JUMP THE HERC Orange, wild fun. You'll see.
You mean you didnt get the jumper marriage vows? In sickness and in health, in Hercs and in Cessnas...
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Orange1 0
QuoteQuotethe turbines are all upcountry. we'd love one down here. occasionally get hercs (C130) at boogies
JUMP THE HERC Orange, wild fun. You'll see.
You mean you didnt get the jumper marriage vows? In sickness and in health, in Hercs and in Cessnas...
377
You have no idea how i felt looking at pics of my mates jumping it
... but when the kids are older it will be easier to be more selfish about these thingsFlamingoes - if they are barely pink it is because of lack of a certain type of food (algae IIRC). I've seen white flamingoes, but can't remember where (possibly in a zoo). Seen very many pink ones too.
Ha! And look here:
http://www.infoplease.com/askeds/high-flying-flamingos.html
We've seen eagles around the DZ on numerous occasions. So perhaps your jumpers in Oregon are safe with our ex-pilot.QuoteWhen traveling during the day, the flamingos fly at high altitudes, possibly to avoid predation by eagles.
I'm desperately trying to think of a way to link this back to Cooper, but I can't really imagine that he slammed into a flamingo on his descent.
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
snowmman 3
Orange1 said "You have no idea how i felt looking at pics of my mates jumping it ... but when the kids are older it will be easier to be more selfish about these things"
Nah, it's never easier. If you trap yourself into thinking that, you'll kick yourself in the rear... I think you just have to budget time for yourself. Nothing wrong with that. Heck once a month you should be able to take off and do whatever you please. That's not too much to ask.
I think the biggest risk is that you lose the motivation. Better to do stuff whenever you're motivated..that's the thing that disappears and is hard to bring back...Partly because there will be different things in the future!
Nah, it's never easier. If you trap yourself into thinking that, you'll kick yourself in the rear... I think you just have to budget time for yourself. Nothing wrong with that. Heck once a month you should be able to take off and do whatever you please. That's not too much to ask.
I think the biggest risk is that you lose the motivation. Better to do stuff whenever you're motivated..that's the thing that disappears and is hard to bring back...Partly because there will be different things in the future!
Farflung 0
Let's get some Americana in line when it comes to addressing our national emblem.....the Pink Flamingo.
I love this bird, it is like a stork with glitter. One very skinny leg to support a body plumed with pink feathers from a diet of iodine rich shrimp.
It is better known for strolling than flying in some of the more agreeable climates on earth. Is it any wonder the Pink Panther was cool? Or Jayne Mansfield was....OK, then.
Pink wildlife is a global exemplar of what to aim for regarding hip-nissity.
Does anyone remember what McCoy called himself? How about LaPointe or McNally? That's right, not a Mike Hunt or Richard Hertz in the group.
Soooo, what was the hit movie of 1972, a mere 37 days after Cooper's jump? Pink Flamingos......Bingo. There must be something else, I just need time to pink.
I love this bird, it is like a stork with glitter. One very skinny leg to support a body plumed with pink feathers from a diet of iodine rich shrimp.
It is better known for strolling than flying in some of the more agreeable climates on earth. Is it any wonder the Pink Panther was cool? Or Jayne Mansfield was....OK, then.
Pink wildlife is a global exemplar of what to aim for regarding hip-nissity.
Does anyone remember what McCoy called himself? How about LaPointe or McNally? That's right, not a Mike Hunt or Richard Hertz in the group.
Soooo, what was the hit movie of 1972, a mere 37 days after Cooper's jump? Pink Flamingos......Bingo. There must be something else, I just need time to pink.
377 22
Snow wrote:
Snow is right.
Do it now.
Bundle up Baby O and take her to the DZ. Get her used to the intoxicating colorful chaos.
It really does get harder later. Seems counterintuitive but it's a fact.
I was going to wait for my kids to get older before I started travelling to distant boogies. Instead I went to WFFC for 6 years before it folded. I still took my kids on fun vacations, but 1/3 of my vacation time was used for boogies.
WFFC had jet jumps, DC 3, DC 4, Carvair, Herc, CASA, Skyvan, Schweizer sailplane, AN 2, Beech 18, Helos, Balloon, B 24 and B 17 bombers, etc. Plus anachistic hedonistic chaos of the highest order.
Although great boogies still remain, like Lost Praire, Couch Freaks, etc., WFFC was the tops IMHO.
Also, try to find those rarer jumpships now. Almost impossible.
377 says: good times and convenient times dont run on the same schedule. Plan accordingly.
377
QuoteNah, it's never easier. If you trap yourself into thinking that, you'll kick yourself in the rear... I think you just have to budget time for yourself. Nothing wrong with that. Heck once a month you should be able to take off and do whatever you please. That's not too much to ask.
Snow is right.
Do it now.
Bundle up Baby O and take her to the DZ. Get her used to the intoxicating colorful chaos.
It really does get harder later. Seems counterintuitive but it's a fact.
I was going to wait for my kids to get older before I started travelling to distant boogies. Instead I went to WFFC for 6 years before it folded. I still took my kids on fun vacations, but 1/3 of my vacation time was used for boogies.
WFFC had jet jumps, DC 3, DC 4, Carvair, Herc, CASA, Skyvan, Schweizer sailplane, AN 2, Beech 18, Helos, Balloon, B 24 and B 17 bombers, etc. Plus anachistic hedonistic chaos of the highest order.
Although great boogies still remain, like Lost Praire, Couch Freaks, etc., WFFC was the tops IMHO.
Also, try to find those rarer jumpships now. Almost impossible.
377 says: good times and convenient times dont run on the same schedule. Plan accordingly.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377 22
QuoteSoooo, what was the hit movie of 1972, a mere 37 days after Cooper's jump? Pink Flamingos......Bingo. There must be something else, I just need time to pink.
Di you know that pink in a rig or canopy reduces its resale value by a lot? Isn't that crazy? Even a pink reserve gets discounted in the used market. A reserve is like underwear, nobody's gonna see it unless things get frantic.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
snowmman 3
QuoteQuoteSoooo, what was the hit movie of 1972, a mere 37 days after Cooper's jump? Pink Flamingos......Bingo. There must be something else, I just need time to pink.
Di you know that pink in a rig or canopy reduces its resale value by a lot? Isn't that crazy? Even a pink reserve gets discounted in the used market. A reserve is like underwear, nobody's gonna see it unless things get frantic.
377
Bringing it back to Cooper, from Pink Flamingos, is the dyed reserve.
Ckret mentioned, when we asked, that the cords were white inside where Cooper cut them.
So we never worked out, why that reserve was dyed.
Cooper knew, you leave the pink one behind.
How come people came up with all sorts of complicated theories about why he cut the "good" reserve.
he cut the pink one. The bad one.
Too bad we don't know the color of the one he took.
I read somewhere that both chutes he took were white. but can't be sure.
If he left the pink, must have been a jumper.
I just found this picture of Laura A. Kessler examining Ingram's money at pcgs, and realized she's looking at a brown photo album with plastic sleeves of some kind, that brian must have used to store the money.
PCGS put each bill in individual protection after they got them, before the auction. So the brown album must be Brian's original storage.
from http://www.pcgs.com/articles/article_view.chtml?artid=5244
attached
Share this post
Link to post
Share on other sites