hangdiver 1 #16201 February 1, 2010 Jo says Quote377, You say you are an attorney - don't goad me about riddles, because YOU should know the LAW. What has been found has been LONG over due. We were on the right trail several months ago - where I went in the very beginning is turning out to be the ending. That my dear sir is a riddle - but, it has a very specific meaning and is not intented to be a tease or a riddle. Okay maybe I don't have the best reading comprehension, but I'm confused is it a riddle or not? I just love riddles but if it's not one I'll just ignore the above statement and not start searching for trails that end before they begin. My adviser says I'm wasting my time reading and posting on the Cooper thread. I just don't pay any attention to her. "Mans got to know his limitations" Harry Callahan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 22 #16202 February 1, 2010 QuoteI knew full well, the guys operating the smallest atomic cannon had the largest stones. The forum tide has turned. Now smaller pipes/shafts/barrels are better? 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Orange1 0 #16203 February 1, 2010 Quote Blank stares of disbelief from the sort of confusion generated when one speaks Esperanto or that African dialect comprised of clicks and smacking sounds. The rest of it was funny :) It's not a dialect, it's a language, and while there are about 8 million who speak it at home there are probably at least 50-60 million, if not 100-million or more people who understand Xhosa (which is related to a number of other 'Bantu" languages). Perhaps you should have been more specific about where one might get confused ...certainly not in sub-Saharan Africa. Esperanto, of course, is a good example Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 22 #16204 February 1, 2010 Jo wrote: Quote377, You say you are an attorney - don't goad me about riddles, because YOU should know the LAW. What has been found has been LONG over due. We were on the right trail several months ago - where I went in the very beginning is turning out to be the ending. That my dear sir is a riddle - but, it has a very specific meaning and is not intented to be a tease or a riddle. Hangdiver replied: QuoteOkay maybe I don't have the best reading comprehension, but I'm confused is it a riddle or not? I just love riddles but if it's not one I'll just ignore the above statement and not start searching for trails that end before they begin. I see no riddle, just another Jo tease. My advisor tells me to ignore alien orders. So far so good. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 22 #16205 February 1, 2010 QuoteIt's not a dialect, it's a language, and while there are about 8 million who speak it at home there are probably at least 50-60 million, if not 100-million or more people who understand Xhosa Speaking of "that African dialect comprised of clicks and smacking sounds", I want to learn PRAWN. Those guys in District Nine could really sling the words. The interspecies prostitution was a novel idea for a sci fi flick. Blade Runner addressed it only tangentially. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Farflung 0 #16206 February 1, 2010 Orange1 corrects Farflung- "It's not a dialect, it's a language, and while there are about 8 million who speak it at home there are probably at least 50-60 million, if not 100-million or more people who understand Xhosa." Farflung quotes self - "Spotting anachronisms has never been a national strength." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 22 #16207 February 1, 2010 Jo wrote: QuoteSecrets kept by our government in 1945 need to be made public We agree Jo, so do your part and make those dirty secrets public immediately. If you delay you are just prolonging the coverup. That plays right into the FBIs hands. Why would you wish to further their cowardly conspiracy? Air it out Jo. Publish your evidence. Did Duane ever say "air it out"? Just wondering... 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowmman 3 #16208 February 2, 2010 I was thinking about the red fireball. Now if Duane knew he was the first to go out a 727, and it's night, he might have thought "WTF" and thrown a lit flare out the back just to see what would happen to it as it got buffeted around. But more likely, since Duane was a welder and could weld under canopy, was that he opened the briefcase after deployment and lit the flare. But how would he hold it? He would want both hands for steering his C9 using the techniques Duane pioneered (that 377 reported). I'm thinking that it's mostly like he held the flare in his butt cheeks. Airtwardo: is it possible to stick a lit highway flare up one's rectum while under canopy? I'm assuming no subsurface migration. Ignore the effect of any clouds. I have a scientific team, but they balked at this experiment. (edit) I'm assuming there's no reason to jump with a lit flare in your hand. So my scenarios seem the only plausible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 22 #16209 February 2, 2010 QuoteI have a scientific team, but they balked at this experiment. I wasn't aware that your t-shirt scientists could refuse any orders, requests or desires. Is SI trying for one of those "most desirable places for women to work" awards? Good Snowmman. You may be on the road to moral rehabilitation. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #16210 February 2, 2010 Just read Cooks letter to Himmelsbach - what's wrong with his letter? Himmelsbach was never difficult to communicate, but he does know how to sift out certain types of individuals. I do not have the communication skills of Cook but I do have enough common sense to have informed you guys about the how fragments sifted down thru the dirt as it was handled. Remember my story about the gold flakes upon the top of the sand and building sand castles on the beach - same principal and nothing mysterious about it. The flare is simple and one I mention a long time ago to Cook and to Himmelsbach - that Cooper might have utilized the flares to test the drift and the other thing which I guess he found unnecessary to mention was to let another party on the ground know he was getting ready to jump......Ahhhh so WHO was on the ground. Definitely NOT Cooper...at least at that point. Maybe Cook is drinklng his own Hawaian punch with Glacier Ice. Understand that stuff can really mess up your thinking.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 22 #16211 February 2, 2010 QuoteMaybe Cook is drinklng his own Hawaian punch with Glacier Ice. Understand that stuff can really mess up your thinking. Jo, If you know how to get high on such safe and easily obtainable grocery store items why have you waited so long to tell everyone? This is a jumper forum. We need to know this kind of information right away. You can hold back evidence about Duane, but it's not OK to hold back on crucial info like this. You don't want us sniffing glue and chuffing ether starting fluid do you? The nitrous oxide propellant in whipped cream cans is Snowmman's personal favorite, but I prefer solvent fumes... in moderation of course. What was Duane's favorite? Prisoners are very clever in this regard. Some cons at Folsom were fermenting raisins in their cells to make alcohol. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 22 #16212 February 2, 2010 I was trying to solve Jo's GLACIER ICE RIDDLE...but all I found was this mother of all wacked out conspiracy stories: http://www.beyondweird.com/ufos/Bruce_Walton_The_Underground_Nazi_Invasion_2.html Maybe Duane was associated with this sub polar Nazi relocation program. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 247 #16213 February 2, 2010 QuoteJust read Cooks letter to Himmelsbach - what's wrong with his letter? Himmelsbach was never difficult to communicate, but he does know how to sift out certain types of individuals. I do not have the communication skills of Cook but I do have enough common sense to have informed you guys about the how fragments sifted down thru the dirt as it was handled. Remember my story about the gold flakes upon the top of the sand and building sand castles on the beach - same principal and nothing mysterious about it. The flare is simple and one I mention a long time ago to Cook and to Himmelsbach - that Cooper might have utilized the flares to test the drift and the other thing which I guess he found unnecessary to mention was to let another party on the ground know he was getting ready to jump......Ahhhh so WHO was on the ground. Definitely NOT Cooper...at least at that point. Maybe Cook is drinklng his own Hawaian punch with Glacier Ice. Understand that stuff can really mess up your thinking. Daily Blithering wrote: I do not have the communication skills of Cook but I do have enough common sense to have informed you guys about the how fragments sifted down thru the dirt as it was handled. Remember my story about the gold flakes upon the top of the sand and building sand castles on the beach - same principal and nothing mysterious about it. Reply: 1+1 does not equal 47363534.3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #16214 February 2, 2010 QuoteQuoteI have a scientific team, but they balked at this experiment. I wasn't aware that your t-shirt scientists could refuse any orders, requests or desires. Is SI trying for one of those "most desirable places for women to work" awards? Good Snowmman. You may be on the road to moral rehabilitation. 377 I thought you guys were down in the Bay Area... I would think you could find some volunteers down in the Castro District to test out the flare insertions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hangdiver 1 #16215 February 2, 2010 I think that experiment was already done on an episode of "JackAss" with varying results. bottle rocket in ass "Mans got to know his limitations" Harry Callahan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowmman 3 #16216 February 2, 2010 Hey Amazon's still alive and kicking. How's the knee healing up? it sucks how things heal slower as we get older. On the flare thing, it's crazy how people throw out something, and want to imply it has meaning ..."red fireball" without fleshing out the entire thought. A characteristic of the loonies, is they leave the implication to the reader's mind..even better if there's implied "secret information"... it's no different than writing a novel. You don't fully state anything, because when you do, it becomes obvious it's stupid. Take this "throw a flare to signal someone on the ground theory". There's no way that makes sense. Lots of planes that night? probably couldn't see them. Could hear them. How would you know when to start looking for Cooper? If the plan was you were waiting in Portland/Vancouver and looking for a flare, heck you could listen for a low plane too. If you really thought there was any kind of plan, you could have been listening in to airplane radio frequencies (or tower) and been able to predict arrival. And the flight path is predictable if you know it's going to Portland. But Cooper didn't specify flying to Portland, unless you believe some of Sluggo's theories. So the idea of pre-stationing someone at Portland/Vancouver to be signalled by dropped flare? Doesn't make sense..even if the concept made sense, the dropped flare idea wouldn't be the optimal solution to the problem (or necessary)..it wouldn't identify a place to find Cooper very precisely either. What's crazy is people hold Galen Cook out to be something other than a nut bag because he's a lawyer. He's just a lawyer nut bag. Same as Jo, Jerry, Himmelsbach, Carr..etc. All nut bags. (edit) In short, if you want a flare theory, the only one that makes sense is Cooper opening something under canopy, getting and lighting a flare, and sticking it up his ass. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowmman 3 #16217 February 2, 2010 "The original anti-collision lights on a 727 were red rotating beacons. they were replaced by strobes as they wore out in the '80's and 90's in the US. (1980's aircraft were delivered with strobes). " Any of you guys who jumped 727's in the '70s would know the above. source: http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/tech_ops/read.main/131958/ Could probably find others. also discussed here http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/tech_ops/read.main/131958/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 247 #16218 February 2, 2010 QuoteHey Amazon's still alive and kicking. How's the knee healing up? it sucks how things heal slower as we get older. On the flare thing, it's crazy how people throw out something, and want to imply it has meaning ..."red fireball" without fleshing out the entire thought. A characteristic of the loonies, is they leave the implication to the reader's mind..even better if there's implied "secret information"... it's no different than writing a novel. You don't fully state anything, because when you do, it becomes obvious it's stupid. Take this "throw a flare to signal someone on the ground theory". There's no way that makes sense. Lots of planes that night? probably couldn't see them. Could hear them. How would you know when to start looking for Cooper? If the plan was you were waiting in Portland/Vancouver and looking for a flare, heck you could listen for a low plane too. If you really thought there was any kind of plan, you could have been listening in to airplane radio frequencies (or tower) and been able to predict arrival. And the flight path is predictable if you know it's going to Portland. But Cooper didn't specify flying to Portland, unless you believe some of Sluggo's theories. So the idea of pre-stationing someone at Portland/Vancouver to be signalled by dropped flare? Doesn't make sense..even if the concept made sense, the dropped flare idea wouldn't be the optimal solution to the problem (or necessary)..it wouldn't identify a place to find Cooper very precisely either. What's crazy is people hold Galen Cook out to be something other than a nut bag because he's a lawyer. He's just a lawyer nut bag. Same as Jo, Jerry, Himmelsbach, Carr..etc. All nut bags. (edit) In short, if you want a flare theory, the only one that makes sense is Cooper opening something under canopy, getting and lighting a flare, and sticking it up his ass. not to mention: _ seeing the bottom of the plane through overcast and clouds ... at 10k feet ... all the way from VCR to Orchard ... If you could see the bottom of the plane you could see the parachute - simple matter of optical resolution if the story holds. (Did Galen or his team make the calculation? They will now!). Did the witnesses have binoculars or a telescope ? _ who says it was road flares? Maybe what they followed was the trailing debris of a bomb exploding with the parachute on fire? _ if the jets could see 305's lights how come they missed the pyrotechniques that went onf or up to a minute? _ not one news report that I can find. _ this is an old sewing circle story. One version is "his life raft inflated on the way down and you could see that too. All those pilot chutes had built in life rafts. It was yellow" .... just like in the movies... _ westward drift ... guess winds at225-235 is wrong. _ unless this is a flare somebody other than Cooper deployed looking for Cooper or sending a signal? Im going to suspend judgement on all of this for the time being and hold my best cards - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 22 #16219 February 2, 2010 Snow wrote: QuoteHe's just a lawyer nut bag. Who're you calling a lawyer son? 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowmman 3 #16220 February 2, 2010 QuoteSnow wrote: QuoteHe's just a lawyer nut bag. Who're you calling a lawyer son? 377 Every time I get called on jury duty, I get dismissed. I've never served on a jury. The lawyers never like my answers to their questions. It totally pisses off guys who want to get out of serving. I remember once the judge made the guy admit he could sit on the jury, even though he really didn't want to, and he got seated. I got up after him. Answered a couple questions, said I had no trouble with the time (I wasn't busy at the time)..and they punted me right away. I don't think I'll ever be on a jury, my whole life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowmman 3 #16221 February 3, 2010 I started at the beginning of the web again, to read it thru another time and found this interesting book title, that I hadn't seen in the list of "Cooper" books, fiction or otherwise, before. Note this was before the money find. He's written other books. The first edition was "vanity" press. (self published). George Montgomery "And The Mountain Cried", Hicksville: Exposition Press, 1978. A novel, published by the author, about the "D.B. Cooper" skyjacking, with Cooper as a Vietnam veteran in league with corrupt Vietnamese officials. Partly set in Vietnam. http://www.ochsnerjournal.org/doi/full/10.1043/1524-5012%282007%297%5B40%3AOILF%5D2.0.CO%3B2 this account incorrectly says "Sierra Nevada" "The author, an Atlanta industrialist, was a classmate of John L. Ochsner, MD, at Darlington School in Rome, GA. The book is a fictional account of the fate of D.B. Cooper, the 1971 skyjacker who parachuted into oblivion over the Sierra Nevada mountains with a ransom of $200,000. In it, a main character is a sportsman/adventurer who learns that his younger brother, a helicopter pilot, has been shot down in Cambodia and evacuated to the States. He vows to see that his brother gets the best of care and proposes to have him moved from the military hospital to Ochsner, putting in a call to Dr. Ochsner (presumably John). The transfer proves unnecessary." listed in this bibliography: http://books.google.com/books?id=mp5uTxzSJOkC&pg=PA54&dq=%22and+the+mountain+cried%22+db+cooper&cd=1#v=onepage&q=%22and%20the%20mountain%20cried%22%20db%20cooper&f=false listed here as published by J. Pohl Associates in 1981 176 pages. Maybe another edition? http://books.google.com/books?id=yGL3AAAACAAJ&dq=%22and+the+mountain+cried%22&cd=1 The 1978 edition had 280 pages. Maybe smaller pages. here's the 1978 edition http://books.google.com/books?id=x2L3AAAACAAJ&dq=%22and+the+mountain+cried%22&source=gbs_book_other_versions_r&cad=2 Some others. This one is harder to find a copy of: "Night flight for ransom: the legend of D. B. Cooper" By Leroy H. Gray, Gale Ellis 1980, 159 pages, Publisher Lee Gray Pub., Christ Life Fellowship Interesting that another Gray already wrote a book.. http://books.google.com/books?id=qrPIHAAACAAJ&dq=db+cooper&lr=&as_drrb_is=b&as_minm_is=1&as_miny_is=1971&as_maxm_is=1&as_maxy_is=1984&as_brr=0&cd=20 (edit) Each time a book was published, Duane lit a flare and smoked it, remembering the good old days. Duane got a haircut when the 1978 book was published. He used the toilet when the 1980 book was published. Jo remembers. Gulf gas station. Door in the back on the right. Duane adjusted his glasses when he left. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guru312 0 #16222 February 3, 2010 Quote On the flare thing, it's crazy how people throw out something, and want to imply it has meaning ..."red fireball" without fleshing out the entire thought. From the old thread: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3079951;search_string=signal%20flare;#3079951Guru312 I am not DB Cooper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 247 #16223 February 3, 2010 Quote Quote On the flare thing, it's crazy how people throw out something, and want to imply it has meaning ..."red fireball" without fleshing out the entire thought. From the old thread: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3079951;search_string=signal%20flare;#3079951 well done ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowmman 3 #16224 February 3, 2010 I guess since Galen Cook has a witness that saw a red drifting fireball, that means Cooper fired a flare gun before or while jumping over Portland or Vancouver. Sounds like Galen has this figured out, then, if Himmelsbach would just give him the name of the agent that issued the coverup command. I wonder why the witness said the flare was drifting instead of falling? If fired at 10,000 feet, it would hit the ground in what, a minute or so? I guess if you're the guy that's supposed to find Cooper, you eyeball that flare for a minute and then drive to where Cooper lands? I wonder if the chase guy saw Cooper's parachute. Like georger said, lucky no one else did! Sounds like that's what happened. Now we're making progress. But who picked Duane up? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 247 #16225 February 3, 2010 QuoteI guess since Galen Cook has a witness that saw a red drifting fireball, that means Cooper fired a flare gun before or while jumping over Portland or Vancouver. Sounds like Galen has this figured out, then, if Himmelsbach would just give him the name of the agent that issued the coverup command. I wonder why the witness said the flare was drifting instead of falling? If fired at 10,000 feet, it would hit the ground in what, a minute or so? I guess if you're the guy that's supposed to find Cooper, you eyeball that flare for a minute and then drive to where Cooper lands? I wonder if the chase guy saw Cooper's parachute. Like georger said, lucky no one else did! Sounds like that's what happened. Now we're making progress. But who picked Duane up? The story hinges on the assumption the 'sticks' were flares, not dynamite. We discussed using flares during a drop, before. Did people/public even know there was a hijacking under way at 8:00pm on the 24th - had there been news reports? I doubt it. So any witness is either knowledgeable-involved or random ... Galen's account is specific as 'fire out of the end of the plane'! So the witness saw the event very early. Calcs: something between ~0.0957-0.0017 arc minutes for the plane based on 133ft length, depending on angle of sighting, distance & elevation relative to oberver all changing ... smaller angle subtended by Cooper and parachute. Flare would be a brilliant point source with sky glow (ball of fire?). Time in air 60-90 secs? No more than 4 mins as per prior posts here at DZ. The winds have to support the trajectory reported... Im not saying its impossible, just an uncanny observation. It would attract for more attention below 3500 feet. To see it at elevation and even the bottom of the plane lit up means he stood there on the stairs with the flare lighted before jumping ... ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
