DB Cooper

skyjack71 · February 4, 2010

Snow: Sorry about your cat - I lost my Sheltie 2 yrs ago in April - 16 yrs old - just nine months after Jim died. Up until a few months ago I would see his image peeking around the door watching me - even though I knew he was gone. He finally moved on - he stayed as long as he could. Molly's spirit will stay as long as it can - and then one day she will move on.

Jo Stated:
"crossing the Columbia with approximates at McGuire Island keeping Troutdale airport to the East of the plane."

Georger Replied:
There is another whole slate of accounts of him jumping on the Oregon side, from FBI agents no
less. Maybe I will liven the mix and start posting a few of those, all AP wire stories or similar just
after the hijacking...

Congrats on your clarity this evening. Keep it up!

Did any of you ever really read the accountings of the trip Duane took me on in 1979 to WA? Remember that on the return trip from Seattle after 3 stops on the Columbia in WA, we crossed over into Portland. He takes me to an area near the airport - a row of concrete low buildings - like storage areas and mentions something about a car being left there (the FBI even admits to a car being left there and said it was a legitimate drop by a business man, but they NEVER identified that businessman!)

Then he proceeds on the road near the river - I still do not know the name of that road or highway. He points out an area and mentions that it is mostly industrial and then he talks about an Island in the river ( I still don't know what island he was referring to). This island he had been on, as that was the indications I got.

After that point he points out a overpass across the river (what I now know to be the Marina between Camas and Washougal.
He stated that because of the tressel I could not see the marina but it was behind it. This is when he told the story about the boat being stolen from the Marina and then let loose across from the Portland airport.

Since I don't know which came first - the chicken or the egg. He mentions the Airport right in the middle of all of this and we did turn around not to far from this area, but not until we reached the point he mentions the powerlines and pipelines that crossed the river. The only town he mentioned during this time was Gresham.

For some reason I remember an airstrip on my right, but the map shows Troutdale airport being on my left (when he pointed out the Troutdale airport I really couldn't see what I called an airport) - but maybe we had already turned around...but that is just not how I remembered it.
Perhaps I need to remember that the Milton, Fl, airport is just one building it is called an airport. When I think in those terms it helps.

So I have a question if we are heading East and the Troutdale airport is on my left amongest all of the industrial building along the river - why do I have a memory of a strip on my right which would be south of the road - He was pointing out flags which I was looking for, but couldn't see. He made some kind of remark about this strip - but my memory is limited to what I have stated. It was 31 yrs ago. We may already have turned around, but I swear that is NOT how I remember it.

I know that over the yrs I have lost some of the sequences of the things he showed me - but this is what I remember and NOT necessarily in that order. It is important to me to mention that we DID not go all the way back to Portland before heading South - so maybe that is where Gresham enters the memory.

This strip stays in my memory because of a remark he made - but I cannot remember what he said - and yes, I have heard some of the mentions of the plane coming over the Troutdale airport - but the plane was WEST of the Troutdale airport. With a 727 what difference does it make over it or West of it?

Duane never looked at a map the whole time we were there and the only map we had was an Atlas of all the states and one showing the western half of the USA. It was an old Osha dated back to the 70's and I left it accidentally in CA when I was there in 2004 for my husbands proton radiation treatments for his cancer. We did have a Seattle map the company gave to us - for our free days...but he never opened it - I did - which was when I told him his trip to the back side of the airport was NO short-cut!

Orange1 · February 4, 2010

RIP for your kitty, snow. 15 years is a good innings for a cat, especially one born (essentially) stray... kudos.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

snowmman · February 4, 2010

Quote

Any more news?

Yes. Duane was Cooper.

snowmman · February 4, 2010

At Sluggo's site, Galen Cook says he talked to Cossey.

he throws out some more wild cards

says Cossey now says it was an NB-8 (but I thought Ckret confirmed the NB-6 with a 28' canopy..)
Ckrett posted June 12, 2008
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3238357;search_string=28%20cossey;#3238357

The NB6 and the Pioneer were Cossey's chutes, he had them at his house, they weren't at Seattle Skysports. I asked Cossey why he packed a 28 foot canopy in the NB6 and he just shrugged. Kind of like, "it was my chute, I did it because I can."

If it was Cossey's rig at his home, it seems unlikely he would misremember.

Galen Cook floats the idea that the blackened bills are related to the fireball. We discussed that already. They weren't black at 1980 discovery (as far as we can see from photos), and the fingerprinting story sounds believable. (silver nitrate)

He also tries to float the idea of canopy flight from the flight path to Tena Bar. But we analyzed that and it's too far.

For all this talk about Galen Cook being a sophisticated DBC investigator, he sure comes off as a newbie?

http://305forum.dbcoopersite.com/user/Discussion.aspx?id=218542

That's the problem with all this history of people wanting to think they have secret knowledge. When you air it out, they have nothing but B.S.

georger · February 4, 2010

Quote
At Sluggo's site, Galen Cook says he talked to Cossey.

he throws out some more wild cards

says Cossey now says it was an NB-8 (but I thought Ckret confirmed the NB-6 with a 28' canopy..)
Ckrett posted June 12, 2008
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3238357;search_string=28%20cossey;#3238357

The NB6 and the Pioneer were Cossey's chutes, he had them at his house, they weren't at Seattle Skysports. I asked Cossey why he packed a 28 foot canopy in the NB6 and he just shrugged. Kind of like, "it was my chute, I did it because I can."

If it was Cossey's rig at his home, it seems unlikely he would misremember.

Galen Cook floats the idea that the blackened bills are related to the fireball. We discussed that already. They weren't black at 1980 discovery (as far as we can see from photos), and the fingerprinting story sounds believable. (silver nitrate)

He also tries to float the idea of canopy flight from the flight path to Tena Bar. But we analyzed that and it's too far.

For all this talk about Galen Cook being a sophisticated DBC investigator, he sure comes off as a newbie?

http://305forum.dbcoopersite.com/user/Discussion.aspx?id=218542

That's the problem with all this history of people wanting to think they have secret knowledge. When you air it out, they have nothing but B.S.

I wonder if Cook's science team got bills to turn
black on the bar?

What caught my attention was Orchards? Who
says Cooper "wanted to get to Orchards" and why?
What evidence suggests that? (He bailed over
Orchard's?). What's at Orchards that is so important?

snowmman · February 4, 2010

georger said "I wonder if Cook's science team got bills to turn
black on the bar?"

If they did, then they'd have to show that the money found in 1980 was blackened.

There is no photographic evidence I've seen that shows black bills in 1980.

The pictures of black bills arrive later.

If someone has evidence of black bills in 1980, I'd like to see it. The pictures I saw had some browning. Not all sides of the bundles were visible though.

I suspect there's going to be yet another unnamed witness verifying the existence of black bills in 1980.

It's interesting that none of the Ingram auction bills are black (confirming what I'm saying) They are faded (some) sure. And we've discussed the non-uniformity of fading front and back, and how that sometimes happen because they use different ink on front and back and the batches vary.

snowmman · February 4, 2010

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skyjack71 · February 4, 2010

Quote

What caught my attention was Orchards? Who
says Cooper "wanted to get to Orchards" and why?
What evidence suggests that? (He bailed over
Orchard's?). What's at Orchards that is so important?

I KNOW the answer to that ONE.
A car parked near 500 near Green Mountain Airport in what was a field at that time. A road turned at that field and on the South side of the highway and just East of there was Green Mountain and another airport called Green Mountain.

Didn't mean he wanted to get to Orchards but it was his turning point and his way out. The old Scholls Airport was just north of Orchards in the Fourth Plains and the road and the pipeline was East of 503 and intersected at Old 500. On a flight at 10K with any visibility you would be able to look West and see the massive power lines which had red lights sporatically placed and extended all the way to Lake Merwin and into Vancouver. He had to jump before and above Union or there would have been too many homes and a chance of being seen. Battleground would have been a land mark and if he missed that then it would be the slight turn of the aircraft. - then it was the matter of a countdown. Due to the winds he didn't land in his target area - and had to follow plan B.

Since he was off target (NORTH of the target area) - he chose to get out of the search area as fast as possible and did not go to retrieve the car...getting there was too far in an open area. To evade capture - he went South and he did this quicly to the cover of forests in the Brush Prairie Area - there was a tower there with a light on it. Once he got to the railroad tracks (open area from where he jumped to the tracks) - he took refuge there to rest and unburden himself. He buried something behind a shed that was there in 1971 and the tower was still there. As soon as he could move he went South East and kept those bearings with land marks he knew like no one else could ever know. His target at that time was Green Mountain.
I do not know why he did not retrive the car at that time - perhaps he lost the keys or there was too much activitely so he stayed along the pipe lines in wooded areas and kept going South East toward Camp Bonneville (another place he knew all too well).

Once he had reached the limits of this area he knew his way by the creeks and powerlines. Back many yrs before 2 young men had escaped from Camp Bonnevile around 1945. One of them was NEVER found. I have told the rest of the story before about the creek and the ridge and the Hill and the cabins and the lake and the farm house and the Marina and then the trip down the river in a stolen boat. Yea, Right Back AT them - Almost directly across from the PDX. FBI never DID check the property records of 1971 for those homes. They never checked the property records for 1945 for a farm I told them about and a cemetery for a marker?????

This escape route is
Copyright 2010 © by Jo Weber

Hope you enjoyed the Trip!

snowmman · February 4, 2010

Jo reported "Back many yrs before 2 young men had escaped from Camp Bonnevile around 1945. One of them was NEVER found"

So where did Duane hide the body? And why did he murder?

georger · February 4, 2010

Quote

georger said "I wonder if Cook's science team got bills to turn
black on the bar?"

If they did, then they'd have to show that the money found in 1980 was blackened.

There is no photographic evidence I've seen that shows black bills in 1980.

The pictures of black bills arrive later.

Cook says:

"Tosaw always believed Cooper landed in the river and that the "darkened bills" found at Tena's somehow related to the eyewitness story about seeing a fiery object in the sky that night, drifting towards the river and in the direction of Tena's."

Cook has a few bills. Are they black? Couldnt his
science team test any blackness and see what it is?
Is the black carbon? Why did he or Tosaw opt for "fire" to explain blackness/carbon, without any testing?

My dog is black. Was my dog in fire?

Or is the blackness more purple? Fire doesnt
produce purple?

Cook and Tosaw seem to be thinking like Jo
Weber!

The kind of blackness Cook is associating with fire
would be carbon-black. Cook needs to test the bills
for carbon? He can even date the carbon to see
when the fire induced carbon occurred. Maybe the
date will come out 2004BC. That is the date Bertrand
Russel's relative Lord Usher said Creation happened.

Orange1 · February 4, 2010

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

snowmman · February 4, 2010

re: georger's comments on burning bills (or Burning Man?)

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2206&dat=19800219&id=FqwyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=aukFAAAAIBAJ&pg=2667,3999894

Feb 19, 1980 news article.
This was done when Brian had to give all his found money to the FBI.

Brian Ingram, the 8-year-old boy who uncovered some of D.B. Cooper's hijack loot at Vancouver, Wash., has received a reproduction from a school official as a memento, along with a certificate of prase from his elementary school principal. A new $20 bill was burned around the edges to simulate the money Brian found when he was helping his father build a fire on a Columbia River beach Feb. 10"

Maybe the elementary school principal was Cooper, so he knew about the fireball?

I guess they decided from pictures in newspapers, that they could simulate the edges by burning. But if you look at the Ingram auction photos, it's obvious there's no burning.

Amazon · February 4, 2010

Quote
Quote
Ya, those flare pens are pretty cool. In the early 70's the sister of my girlfriend at the time was married to a Marine aircraft crew chief who gave me one.
Her dad was on a drunk binge and fired it off in our living room.
He was sitting in a recliner and I was sitting across the room on the couch telling him to be careful.
He was trying to cock the thing and the thumb lever kept slipping off his thumb going click, click, click until it fired.
I don't know how many times that flare flew around the room but it was spectacular.
The funniest thing was it stopped under his chair and caught it on fire.
I guess we were lucky it didn't hit one of us.

see there's the difference between whuffo stories and skydiver stories.

A whuffo (me) will tell a story about a flare gun, and it's fired out of the car and lights someone lawn on fire. And that's the story.

A skydiver will tell a story about a flare gun, and there's alcohol, and it's inside a house flying around the room, and ends up burning a chair up while someone keeps sitting there and drinking.

Which is why a whuffo has to make up as many things as he can. Even the wildest imagination is sometimes insufficient, and computerized random story generation is required to one-up...

(edit) And of course, if Amazon gets drawn in, there's going to be something about body parts being blown off, i.e. don't even bother competing.

Nope.. I just seem to know WAY too many idiots..... HERE HOLD MY BEER WATCH THIS.....bwahahahahahahahaha

snowmman · February 4, 2010

at http://305forum.dbcoopersite.com/user/Discussion.aspx?id=218542
Galen posted (among other things)

"The Ingrams used two different "cleaning agents" to clean-up the bills before they took them in to Himmelsbach."

We had discussed the likelihood of them washing sand off the bills since no sand was in the 1980 photos on the green table.

Given the friable edges visible in those pictures, it made sense that the rounded bills came about from breaking off brittle edges..i.e. they weren't necessarily as rounded when found.

But this "cleaning agent" story is another example of leaving thoughts hanging.

The bills were broken into at most 12 bundles. We know that from the 1980 FBI table photos. "Cleaning agents" wouldn't work well on bundles of bills still stuck together.

I don't know what Galen Cook is claiming. Maybe he's claiming that the black he knows was there originally was removed with secret chemicals, like the black money scam I posted above? So that the money was burned in a fireball but then the black was removed? Or was the black there when the FBI got them? Or did it go thru the fireball no matter what the bills look like?

If you pay me $50,000, I can provide chemicals that can be used to clean money that was blackened so it could be smuggled out of Africa without discovery. There is approximately $1M of this blackened money that I am trying to get rid of. The chemicals are a secret formula and only available thru me.

Farflung · February 4, 2010

The money was black as a result of some form of combustion (not necessarily a flare) which occurred from 10,000 MSL to contact with the Columbia River? This slays me.

I throw a magazine into the fireplace and it will never burn with such consistent margins and that is while laying on a bed of coals. I found myself considering Duane's 'under canopy welding' more likely.

If the money was found with a jar of Witch Hazel would all of the suspects suddenly become known for their raging cases of hemorrhoids? This seems to be standard fare for Cooper discovery.

A six inch plastic placard was discovered. A small bundle of money was discovered. Even a human body was discovered while searching for Cooper, but not a single brief case fragment or charred battery to be found.

Give me a photo of some black money and an undocumented report of aircraft which jettisons 'something' with an eerie glow, un-earthly like nuthin' me or the Mrs. haz ever sawed since. It landed just over that rise, property owners don't like people jumping the fence to have a look-see; I reckon they wuz threatened by the government. If-in you wuz to ask them about it they will deny any knowledge about the lights what had fallen from that jet and landing in their field. Just shows you what sort of unimaginable tortures they was fixin to get if they ever told a soul.

I was told when they first found the brief case is was still smoldering and glowing with an unnatural iridescence which pulsed and radiated a low tone. Rumor has it, a disembodied hand was still clutching the handle. That limb no doubt torn free from the shock induced by jumping from the air-stairs of a B-727; at least that's what one of the investigating agents told me in the strictest of confidence. So I wouldn't expect much in the way of documentation. That's the way this case has always been, you know - a 'Plate of Shrimp'.

snowmman · February 4, 2010

That all makes sense FarFlung.
Do you think Cooper adhered to the Repo Code?

A lot o' people don't realize what's really going on. They view life as a bunch o' unconnected incidents 'n things. They don't realize that there's this, like, lattice o' coincidence that lays on top o' everything. Give you an example; show you what I mean: suppose you're thinkin' about a plate o' shrimp.

Suddenly someone'll say, like, plate, or shrimp, or plate o' shrimp out of the blue, no explanation. No point in lookin' for one, either. It's all part of a cosmic unconciousness.

Trader Feedback · February 4, 2010

Quote
Rumor has it, a disembodied hand was still clutching the handle.

Great image! Farflung really knows how to start aviation related urban legends.

I wonder if Farflung started the one about a guy in a wesuit getting sucked into one of those lake skimming fire tanker planes and dropped onto a forest fire? Many folks actually believe that one even though the orfice of the largest intake pipe is less than forty square inches and has a grill over it.

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/freakish/scuba.asp

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Trader Feedback · February 4, 2010

Quote
It's all part of a cosmic unconciousness.

You didnt go to college at UC Berkeley Snow. Why are you talking like you did?

Also... that stopped working as a pickup line in 1968.

Now you have to say you are the number three guy in a red hot startup and you have founder's stock options.

The girl will then ask you to name the VC investors and you'd better have it right.

It was a lot easier to wing it in the 60s. Can I get an amen Guru? Airtwardo?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Trader Feedback · February 4, 2010

Quote
A lot o' people don't realize what's really going on. They view life as a bunch o' unconnected incidents 'n things.

Not Jo. EVERYTHING is connected. It all substantiates that Duane was Cooper and that he knew about a massive govt conspiracy dating from just after WW 2.

Lord knows what atrocities were being committed by our govt in rural Washington involving Duane and other prisoners.

She can't give us any details though. Her advisors won't permit it. Perhaps it's better that way. I am not sure the public is ready to know the whole truth.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Farflung · February 5, 2010

377,

That's the point about all this newly minted lore. It's like eating a hot dog, I can enjoy it if I don't think about it too much.

Scuba Divers sucked into air tankers, workers entombed in Hoover Dam and Vegas drunks having their kidneys removed makes for a great laugh until you find the story teller is dead serious. When challenged or lightly questioned they always launch into how it happened to a friends cousin or they seen it themselves. My what a cheap commodity personal dignity has become.

A few years ago I was trying to buy a garage door and install it myself. Yes, I enjoy manual labor. Well, the salesman tells me it has to be done by a 'professional' as the torsion spring could rip off a hand. Of course he went on to say, "Seen it many times". Wow, hyperbole and demagoguery in the same breath; a personal favorite.

For many people, logic is like that song "I'm a Henry the 8th", you know...next verse, same as the first....a whole lot louder and a little bit worse.

I remember reading about a product liability case where an old couple discovered a piece of latex or rubber in a loaf of bread. They filed a complaint with the health department stating the unsanitary conditions at the bakery where a condom!! could end up in a bakery product. What else is there to do while waiting for the muffins to cool? Grab yer partner and get a 'lil sumthin sumthin while rolling in the dough. In the heat of passion you may well lose that male barrier contraception in a freshly kneaded bun. Life has risks.

Now the county has lawyers and scientists investigating this den of Donuts and debauchery searching for the scene of the crime and the sickos who get their jollys by feeding the unsuspecting public slightly used party favors.

As it turns out, the 'condom' was a part of a disposable glove (small finger) that the workers used to insure a sanitary kitchen. Isn't that ironic? And embarrassing. What self respecting man would see a rubber glove finger (pinky) and think.....I'll just bet you that's a condom....same material and size of the ones I use.

Yep, there he was with his wife on the first page of the metro section of the paper. Beautifully framed were the couple, the bread and the offending device before the results of the investigation were published. What a way to spend your 15 minutes of fame. These are the type of people who are always looking for such situations and always the people who find them. Hey, what's that on the French Onion Soup? What are those guys doing in the kitchen? Martha...get the health department on the phone again.

Trader Feedback · February 5, 2010

Quote

I was told when they first found the brief case is was still smoldering and glowing with an unnatural iridescence which pulsed and radiated a low tone. Rumor has it, a disembodied hand was still clutching the handle. That limb no doubt torn free from the shock induced by jumping from the air-stairs of a B-727; at least that's what one of the investigating agents told me in the strictest of confidence. So I wouldn't expect much in the way of documentation. That's the way this case has always been, you know - a 'Plate of Shrimp'.

My first thought upon reading the above was "Repo Man."

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

Trader Feedback · February 5, 2010

Quote
A few years ago I was trying to buy a garage door and install it myself. Yes, I enjoy manual labor. Well, the salesman tells me it has to be done by a 'professional' as the torsion spring could rip off a hand. Of course he went on to say, "Seen it many times". Wow, hyperbole and demagoguery in the same breath; a personal favorite.

I installed one once a long time ago. As I recall the torsion spring was installed on a coaxial center shaft so that even if it broke it was contained and couldnt go anywhere. The amount of force in that spring was scary though.

The one I hear often is German shipyard workers oversome by fumes/sleeping/drunk etc and accidently entombed into a ballast tank on a U Boat... only to be found after the war when the boat was salvaged.

Why do people expect a big payoff on food contamination if they didnt eat it, didnt get sick etc. I mean is a jury going to give you a million because there was a condom in your doughnut? If they did would an appelate court let the verdict stand?

I found some plastic parts inside a Cliff Bar. Didnt swallow any, didnt chip any teeth. Sent it to the mfr and said I wasnt seeking damages, but they should find the problem and fix it. They sent me a box of Cliff Bars, explained the problem (something in their packaging machinery broke) and thanked me.

Some locals went to jail for faking a fingertip in a bowl of Wendy's chile. They planted it.

Wish Galen would post his theory about the red fireball and the coverup. Its getting harder defending him when he puts something like that out there and doenst give any explanation.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

snowmman · February 5, 2010

377 said "
Wish Galen would post his theory about the red fireball and the coverup"

Here's what happened.
The fighter planes that went up were armed, and they tried to shoot down 305. But they missed.
The coverup was about the failure of the missiles. Cold War and all that.

The fireball was a missile.

georger · February 5, 2010

Quote

re: georger's comments on burning bills (or Burning Man?)

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2206&dat=19800219&id=FqwyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=aukFAAAAIBAJ&pg=2667,3999894

Feb 19, 1980 news article.
This was done when Brian had to give all his found money to the FBI.

Brian Ingram, the 8-year-old boy who uncovered some of D.B. Cooper's hijack loot at Vancouver, Wash., has received a reproduction from a school official as a memento, along with a certificate of prase from his elementary school principal. A new $20 bill was burned around the edges to simulate the money Brian found when he was helping his father build a fire on a Columbia River beach Feb. 10"

Maybe the elementary school principal was Cooper, so he knew about the fireball?

I guess they decided from pictures in newspapers, that they could simulate the edges by burning. But if you look at the Ingram auction photos, it's obvious there's no burning.

That is funny - thanks!

georger · February 5, 2010

Quote

The money was black as a result of some form of combustion (not necessarily a flare) which occurred from 10,000 MSL to contact with the Columbia River? This slays me.

I throw a magazine into the fireplace and it will never burn with such consistent margins and that is while laying on a bed of coals. I found myself considering Duane's 'under canopy welding' more likely.

If the money was found with a jar of Witch Hazel would all of the suspects suddenly become known for their raging cases of hemorrhoids? This seems to be standard fare for Cooper discovery.

A six inch plastic placard was discovered. A small bundle of money was discovered. Even a human body was discovered while searching for Cooper, but not a single brief case fragment or charred battery to be found.

Give me a photo of some black money and an undocumented report of aircraft which jettisons 'something' with an eerie glow, un-earthly like nuthin' me or the Mrs. haz ever sawed since. It landed just over that rise, property owners don't like people jumping the fence to have a look-see; I reckon they wuz threatened by the government. If-in you wuz to ask them about it they will deny any knowledge about the lights what had fallen from that jet and landing in their field. Just shows you what sort of unimaginable tortures they was fixin to get if they ever told a soul.

I was told when they first found the brief case is was still smoldering and glowing with an unnatural iridescence which pulsed and radiated a low tone. Rumor has it, a disembodied hand was still clutching the handle. That limb no doubt torn free from the shock induced by jumping from the air-stairs of a B-727; at least that's what one of the investigating agents told me in the strictest of confidence. So I wouldn't expect much in the way of documentation. That's the way this case has always been, you know - a 'Plate of Shrimp'.

When most meteors are picked up just after falling,
are they hot or cold?

There might be a can of Coors in this for-ee.

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