DB Cooper

[georger 244]

Wish Galen would post his theory about the red fireball and the coverup. Its getting harder defending him when he puts something like that out there and doenst give any explanation.
377

My thought id Galen is following thge trail of Tosaw and this new science team, and a golden opportunity
has been lost?

Call of the wild.
What might Cooper might need to do?
Build a fire.
Available tender? Dry money.
Therefore, blackened bills .... and only a few bills
left at that burn sight ... his campfire, from his
campsight contemplating what to do next ...

[georger 244]

The fireball was a missile.

[SKYWHUFFO 1]

"There might be a can of Coors in this for-ee. "

After 2600 posts, Georger finally figures out how to get skydivers interested- BEER Bribes. That's his first so that's a case!

[377 22]

Quote

377 said "
Wish Galen would post his theory about the red fireball and the coverup"


Here's what happened.
The fighter planes that went up were armed, and they tried to shoot down 305. But they missed.
The coverup was about the failure of the missiles. Cold War and all that.

The fireball was a missile.

Hey, my former co-workers at Hughes made the MA1 fire control system for those F 106 Cooper chase planes.

Are you telling me it didnt work as advertised?

Actually it sounds like it didn't. The F 106s couldnt even locate the 727 according to some accounts. Others have thme circling because they couldnt fly as slow as the 727 which is hogwash, it was easily in their speed range.

Good thing the missile wasn't a Genie. The Genie (designed to be carried by F 106s) had a nuke warhead to blast bombers out of the sky even if it missed. Close is good enough if your blast is big enough.

I think its really funny that NORAD, SAGE and the MA1 system failed to direct the F 106s to intercept the 727, but a USAF C 130 Hercules propeller driven cargo plane using dead reckoning and some voice comms with ground radar stations reckoning DID intercept it.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

Inflight canopy mods.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9FmVESsvqQ

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

So much is going on right now - that I haven't been able to post.

I will assure you even if I don't make it to see the truth told - it WILL be told and it WILL be made public. The secrets will be made PUBLIC - NO one wants or cares how our government functioned in the 40's or the innocent men whose lives they destroyed. The CO's and their families where outcasts - just as anyone with a Bad Conduct Discharge. If they ended up in certain courts for even minor offenses they received SERIOUS sentences - that a decorated veteran would not receive.

A man who was a CO and refused to bear arms - (he had a wife and a child) was sentenced to Life in Prison for refusing to bear arms...AND SENT to McNeil. No, it wasn't Duane, but he was a Weber, but no relation to Duane we are aware of.

I am simply pointing out to those of you who do not know the history of this country and what happened in the 40's in this place we call America.

This is the Same Government that sends Senior letters stating they owe 10's of 1000's of dollars in over paid Social Security and offer NO explanation. When you call them - the IRS and SS - you get 30 different people with 30 different stories.

These stressed seniors are required to wait for an explanation of over-payment for 45 - 90 days. In the mean time some of them are so stressed they commit suicide or die of heart attacks - I CALL THIS THE KILLING FIELDs OF AMERICA....

There should be a law against this tactic...The explanation of overpayment should accompany the notice and better yet - these seniors (or their representative) should just simply be asked to report to the office within 90 days by appointment for a mandatory reiview of their benefits. Then and only then should the SS receipient be told about any problem and the SS should have a written report available at that time to validate their "supposed" over payments. The receipient then would have 90 days to make a response.

As it stands at this time they just send you a form letter telling you your check will be cut or you can come and talk to them about a payment plan. How many seniors have died or committed suicide because of one of these letters?

Needless to say - the government didn't need to give me one more thing to fight them about - it is time for AMERICANS to stand up to this government. It is time for the GOVERNMENT of AMERICA to take responsibility for its actions. I mean past actions and current dictatorship tactics.

The government needs to make this SS issue FRONT PAGE...and make sure NO more SENIORS receive these threatening notices.
One man killed his wife and then himself after one of these notices. How many others have died of heart attacks?

A widow or a couple on a fixed income - bearly making it is told they want 1/3 of their benefits for the next yr...that they have over paid her by that much. Seniors are just pawns to be manipulated by this new White House. This is just a quieter and more acceptable alternative to the Nazi GAS CHAMBERS...only Seniors are the targets and not the Jews.

Is this how Obama intends to pay for the bail-outs? Take it from the Seniors...and give to people who thought it was just their right to have the American Dream - a house far more expensive than they could really afford.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

I thought Sarah Palin just gave that speech at the Tea Party Convention.

Sounds like you need to join the hordes who are going to Rise Up for the revolution.

Is there any thing I can sell you to help facilitate it?

I would have posted a link to all the youtube videos of Sarah's speech, but no one editted them down...they just posted the entire thing, multiple times.

I think it's because they're not able to decipher it down to any set of main points. So they just put up the whole thing.
Who's going to listen to her for an hour on youtube? It's like she was just putting in her minutes to collect her check.

Rally on, Jo.

[377 22]

Quote

A man who was a CO and refused to bear arms - (he had a wife and a child) was sentenced to Life in Prison for refusing to bear arms...AND SENT to McNeil

a CO or a deserter? I never heard of COs getting life sentences.

Name? Date? Court?

You made a claim now show the evidence.

Jo, regarding your SS nightmare, go to your Congressman's local office or write or call them. Aides help with stuff like this all the time.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

Quote

Who's going to listen to her for an hour on youtube? It's like she was just putting in her minutes to collect her check.

The check will be $100,000. That's her new speaking fee. If you divide her fee by her IQ it sets a new world record smashing the current one held by George Bush Jr.

"The revolution will not be televised." Gill Scott Heron.

He was wrong.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

Hey anyone who wants to Tea Bag it, I'm all for articulating your point of view.
And if you want a revolution, sure, guns or votes, either way, the world tries both.

I may be stupid, but it seems like a minority who wants to be a majority, by declaring they are more right than the other guy.
I thought you get a majority by getting more people to agree with you? Or you try to kill off your enemy a la jihad.

I think a lot of people can't get over the idea that everything is revalued more rapidly now. Just because you think something is worth something, (like your labor or property or ???) doesn't mean someone else does. And that's all that value is about, if you're talking physical stuff...what someone else will pay for it.

All this yelling about rights, or constitutions, ain't going to solve anything. The way to get what you want, is to have people give a damn about you. That's the only interesting question: why should anyone give a damn about anyone else?

Anything that improves that, is the path to success. There is no individual success. People seem to want to think there is. It's a myth. (well, the "american way of life" is a myth, so I guess that's another one of them)

Well, there is individual success, but people don't want to deal with the repercussions of everything that goes with that. People don't seem to want to couple their desires, with what individual action can deliver nowadays. So I hear arguments about how it's unfair that things changed.

Hell, there's more to come with globalization.
A lot of the past strength of "the american way of life" was due to barriers that don't exist any more.

What people really want is the relative, unfair, success. We've marketed a lifestyle that's not sustainable for everyone, so everyone argues that they should get it, and screw the rest.

I only listen to people that are growing potatoes. You grow potatoes: you got your head on straight.

Hey Jo, you just got the shaft: get over it. If you can't fix it, you just have to live with getting screwed. Lots of people get screwed every day.

You won't get your way, whether you're right or wrong, by ranting.
Honestly: you deserve to fail in this thing. You need to think about how to work with people and bureaucracies. Don't get so worked up..just go with the flow.

Here's a hint: People help people who are nice.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Quote

A man who was a CO and refused to bear arms - (he had a wife and a child) was sentenced to Life in Prison for refusing to bear arms...AND SENT to McNeil

a CO or a deserter? I never heard of COs getting life sentences.

Name? Date? Court?

You made a claim now show the evidence.


377

Unbelievable. Even in apartheid South Africa CO's only got a maximum of 6 years.

edit: of course yet more wild unsubstantiated and clearly ridiculous claims just further undermine the credibility of whatever there migt have been, even further.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

Okay, back from the convention, and it was a bust. No one bought any of our bumper stickers, and ammo sales are down.

Laura in marketing says we need to go more upscale...."the flow is in the Stewart/Colbert crowd" she says...

So we're coming out with a new line of gear. First bumper sticker attached. I'm a little worried that the "Duane was Cooper" focus is not as much a draw as it used to be. But we can reinvent Duane.

[Orange1 0]

As for how government function re COs in the 40s:

During World War II, all registrants were sent a questionnaire covering basic facts about their identification, physical condition, history and also provided a checkoff to indicate opposition to military service because of religious training or belief...Civilian Public Service (CPS) provided conscientious objectors in the United States an alternative to military service during World War II. From 1941 to 1947 nearly 12,000 draftees,[42] unwilling to do any type of military service, performed work of national importance in 152 CPS camps throughout the United States and Puerto Rico. The work was initially done in areas isolated from the general population both because of the government's concern that pacifist philosophy would spread and conscientious objectors would not be tolerated in neighboring communities. A constant problem through the duration of the program, especially in camps located in national forests for fire control, was make-work projects designed to occupy the men's time in the off-season and between fires. For instance, men at a camp on the Blue Ridge Parkway in Virginia shoveled snow from an unused roadway while a snowplow was parked nearby. The uselessness of this type of work led to low morale and loss of experienced men as they requested transfers to other camps hoping for more meaningful work. Draftees from the historic peace churches and other faiths worked in areas such as soil conservation, forestry, fire fighting, agriculture, social services, and mental health.

The CPS men served without wages and minimal support from the federal government. The cost of maintaining the CPS camps and providing for the needs of the men was the responsibility of their congregations and families. CPS men served longer than regular draftees, not being released until well past the end of the war. Initially skeptical of the program, government agencies learned to appreciate the men's service and requested more workers from the program. CPS made significant contributions to forest fire prevention, erosion and flood control, medical science and especially in revolutionizing of the state-run mental health institutions which had previously been very inhumane and often cruel.

Alternatives to war bonds and war savings stamps were provided for those who would not fund the war for conscientious reasons. National Service Board for Religious Objectors offered civilian bonds and Mennonite Central Committee offered Civilian Public Service stamps and War Sufferers' Relief stamps.

Civilian Public Service was disbanded in 1947. By the early 1950s a replacement program, 1-W service, was in place for conscientious objectors classified as 1-W by Selective Service. The new program eliminated the base camps of CPS and provided wages for the men.


---
You'll note that there is no mention of imprisonment at all. COs were imprisoned in WW1, but only if they absolutely refused to serve in any non-combatant roles, and anyway that was well before the 40s. A history of COs in the US as well as the various punishments etc along the way can be found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscientious_objector#United_States

Also, before we get another shape-shifter story clutching at straws, note that while fire-fighting was one of the duties it was (a) for people who were NOT in jail and (b) no mention of smokejumping.
Actually, it strikes me that to an ignorant family in a pre-internet age, a story about being sent to jail for being a CO sounds a lot better than being sent to jail because you're a common criminal.

Edited to add: history is actually very easy to find out, if you bother to look, in this day and age, for the 40s or before or after.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

As for how government function re COs in the 40s:

Edited to make this brief

You'll note that there is no mention of imprisonment at all. COs were imprisoned in WW1, but only if they absolutely refused to serve in any non-combatant roles, and anyway that was well before the 40s. A history of COs in the US as well as the various punishments etc along the way can be found here:

Orange do you really believe everything you read - propaganda?

Here ARE some facts as provide in historical documentations from one of the researchers.

A Private Henry P. Weber born in 1918, a shipyard foreman in Vancouver, WA at the time the was drafted - was sentenced to death by hanging in a court martial trial for refusing to bear arms. The trial was held in 1945 at Camp Roberts, CA and his sentence was eventually reduced first to 20 yr and later down to 5 yrs in Leavenworth. He had son Wayne Weber born in 1941 or 1942.

This Weber was NO relation to Duane that we know of. Our government would like to keep these things like this buried
forever and be done with it. Who knows, as secret as Duane's family was, - maybe it was a relative - but the genealogy shows no connection.

Just a piece of trivia information found in our search ...FACTS ARE FACTS and I am currently a personal victim of our Government's aggressive actions to reform and redistribution of funds. They want about a 1/3 of my SS check - with NO explanation or proof of reason.
Just send you a letter before they sent your check and tell you that you owe Thousands of dollar to them and you can request a waiver and explanation of proof - which take about 90 days, In the mean time seniors die of stress and or commit suicide.

Most of these Seniors are barely making it now,

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 244]

Edited to add: history is actually very easy to find out, if you bother to look, in this day and age, for the 40s or before or after.

[snowmman 3]

Jo reported 'This Weber was NO relation to Duane that we know of. Our government would like to keep these things like this buried
forever and be done with it"


Okay, so Wayne Weber has nothing to do with Duane Weber.
But are you saying then that Wayne Weber was Cooper?

Or was Wayne, Duane?

"Wayne Was Duane" has a nice ring to it.

But how could Wayne be Duane, when Duane was Cooper, and Duane was Collins?

I guess anything's good as long as it moves the merchandise. Attached.

[snowmman 3]

Some nice stuff at some web sites on how to deal with the SS recovery you've been dinged with.

Here's the SSA form for requesting waiver of overpayment recovery or change in payment (the .gov suffix means these are government sites). The first link gives an overview of what the form is about and what to do with it.
http://www.ssa.gov/online/ssa-632.html
http://www.socialsecurity.gov/online/ssa-632.pdf

overview of the process you should go thru here.
The main thing: note that you're not unique, so just go with the flow and go thru the process. Ranting won't help.

http://www.ptla.org/overpay.htm
"
Ask for Reconsideration. This means you want SSA to look at your case again, either by looking at your file or by meeting with you in a conference or hearing. Ask for a reconsideration if you think the amount of the overpayment is wrong or the reason SSA gives for the overpayment is wrong.

Ask for a Waiver. If you agree that you were overpaid, you can still ask SSA to waive it so that you don't have to pay it back. Ask for a waiver if you think that the overpayment was not your fault and you can't afford to pay the money back.

Ask for a Payment Arrangement. Do this if you think that the overpayment was your fault or you can afford to pay it back. You can tell SSA that you want to pay the money back a little at a time.
"

another overview here:
http://www.utahlegalservices.org/public/self-help-webpages/social-security-administration-overpayment-q-as

another overview here:
http://drnpa.org/File/publications/pabss-overpayment-fact-sheet.pdf

It looks like for people who can't afford lawyers, that there are free legal services that can help if you get to the point of needing a lawyer.

(edit) SSA frequently-asked-questions with respect to overpayment
http://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/handbook/handbook.19/handbook-toc19.html

[georger 244]

Quote

Jo reported 'This Weber was NO relation to Duane that we know of. Our government would like to keep these things like this buried
forever and be done with it"


Okay, so Wayne Weber has nothing to do with Duane Weber.
But are you saying then that Wayne Weber was Cooper?

Or was Wayne, Duane?

"Wayne Was Duane" has a nice ring to it.

But how could Wayne be Duane, when Duane was Cooper, and Duane was Collins?

I guess anything's good as long as it moves the merchandise. Attached.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Quote

Jo reported 'This Weber was NO relation to Duane that we know of. Our government would like to keep these things like this buried
forever and be done with it"


Okay, so Wayne Weber has nothing to do with Duane Weber.
But are you saying then that Wayne Weber was Cooper?

Or was Wayne, Duane?

"Wayne Was Duane" has a nice ring to it.

But how could Wayne be Duane, when Duane was Cooper, and Duane was Collins?

I guess anything's good as long as it moves the merchandise. Attached.

damn..you're good!

[377 22]

Quote

Some nice stuff at some web sites on how to deal with the SS recovery you've been dinged with.

That was very thoughtful Snow, really. I hope Jo uses the info.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Some nice stuff at some web sites on how to deal with the SS recovery you've been dinged with.

Thank You Snow. I had been to see 2 CPA's and have called the Elder Hot line and have a phone interview with an attorney on Weds. The waiver has already been in place since they told me about this DEBT. Now they are sending it to me to be signed (but the other SS employees told me they could do it over the phone - different employees and different answers.

I have spent over 100 hrs on this and have made my self sick over it. I know more about my husbands business than I ever knew during our marriage. He was a very meticulous man and I have not found one mistake.

What I have found is a mistake on the part of the SS. Since the total of this mistake is about the same amount - I am going on the assumption this is it until they inform me of what the overpayment is. If I am right I don't owe them a cent.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Quote

Some nice stuff at some web sites on how to deal with the SS recovery you've been dinged with.

Thank You Snow. I had been to see 2 CPA's and have called the Elder Hot line and have a phone interview with an attorney on Weds. The waiver has already been in place since they told me about this DEBT. Now they are sending it to me to be signed (but the other SS employees told me they could do it over the phone - different employees and different answers.

I have spent over 100 hrs on this and have made my self sick over it. I know more about my husbands business than I ever knew during our marriage. He was a very meticulous man and I have not found one mistake.

What I have found is a mistake on the part of the SS. Since the total of this mistake is about the same amount - I am going on the assumption this is it until they inform me of what the overpayment is. If I am right I don't owe them a cent.

Even though you apparently need the money, you have to just not get emotional about it..it's a bureaucracy. You can't fight, you just have to go thru the process.

If you're right and there's no error on your part, that's great, just fill out the forms, schedule the appts, etc.

Just be nice to everyone. These people are used to ranters.
You're not going to be able to finesse the system. The only way is to do everything you're asked as efficiently as possible. Everyone in the bureaucracy appreciates that.

Hey they're being pushed to eliminate fraud and overpaying. No system is perfect, they'll make some mistakes too.

It doesn't matter how much time you've spent really. If you still have time to investigate and think about Duane Weber, then you've got time on your hands.

(edit) I would also note that the Tea Party wouldn't really solve any of your issues either. So why speechify like a Tea Partier?

[georger 244]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Jo reported 'This Weber was NO relation to Duane that we know of. Our government would like to keep these things like this buried
forever and be done with it"


Okay, so Wayne Weber has nothing to do with Duane Weber.
But are you saying then that Wayne Weber was Cooper?

Or was Wayne, Duane?

"Wayne Was Duane" has a nice ring to it.

But how could Wayne be Duane, when Duane was Cooper, and Duane was Collins?

I guess anything's good as long as it moves the merchandise. Attached.

damn..you're good!

[hangdiver 1]

Quote

I only listen to people that are growing potatoes. You grow potatoes: you got your head on straight.

Thanks snow, just got our potato buds in the mail yesterday. Be planting this week.
Yes we get mail delivered on Sunday, one of the few places in the USA.
Don't ask...

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Quote

I only listen to people that are growing potatoes. You grow potatoes: you got your head on straight.

Thanks snow, just got our potato buds in the mail yesterday. Be planting this week.
Yes we get mail delivered on Sunday, one of the few places in the USA.
Don't ask...

really? I want to plant potatoes. what kind?
I thought I'd seen everything, but then I saw videos on how to plant potatoes on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=planting+potatoes&search_type=&aq=f

I never used to think I was a redneck. But last night I think I passed the Jeff Foxworthy "You know you're a redneck when.." acceptance test.

I integrated a garden hose into the main water supply in the house.

We've had low pressure for a long time, I finally had a brainstorm that just one section might be clogged and bypassed it. Worked great, I had forgotten how great a good shower is in the morning.

Now the real redneck test will be how long the garden hose stays in place..