DB Cooper

[snowmman 3]

I'm reading the description of the jump in Power's book (published just 2004) and it's incredibly gripping.

He didn't use the ejection seat. He climbed out! 377 will love the detail.

The U2 is spinning out of control, the g-forces are pinning him, the pressure suit isn't working, and he climbs out.
(part of all that contributed to why he wasn't able to auto-destruct the U-2)

starts here, then a couple pages till he jumps
http://books.google.com/books?id=O5qOKyrpQPkC&pg=PA59&lpg=PA59#v=onepage&q=&f=false

He didn't pull his rip, the the auto-deploy thing (at 15k feet?) kicked in before he decided to try.

I like this paragraph

And then I thought: I've just got to try to save myself now. Kicking and squirming, I must have broken the oxygen hoses, because suddenly I was free, my body just falling, floating perfectly free. It was a pleasant, exhilarating feeling. Even better than floating in a swimming pool, I remember thinking.

I must have been in shock.

and later

The first thing to do when the parachute opens, I had been taught in Air Force survival school, is to look up and make sure the chute has billowed correctly. This I was reluctant to do, since, having only one chute, I was not anxious to discover whether it had failed.


reading the back cover, I didn't realize Powers died in 1977 in a helicopter crash. The book was originally published in 1970?
from wikipedia:

After his return, Powers worked for Lockheed as a test pilot from 1963 to 1970. In 1970, he co-wrote a book titled Operation Overflight: A Memoir of the U-2 Incident, which led to his termination from Lockheed as a result of negative publicity over the book. He then became an airborne traffic reporter for radio station KGIL in the San Fernando Valley. He was then hired by Los Angeles television station KNBC to pilot their new "telecopter," a helicopter equipped with externally mounted 360 degree cameras.

Powers died on August 1, 1977. Returning from covering brush fires in Santa Barbara county, his helicopter ran out of fuel and crashed in the Sepulveda Dam Recreation Area just a few miles from Burbank Airport.

In 1998, newly declassified information revealed that Powers’ mission had been a joint USAF/CIA operation.

good detail on the helicopter crash here
http://www.check-six.com/Crash_Sites/Powers-N4TV.htm

[snowmman 3]

I was thinking about "wasting bandwidth"
Let's analyze that.
Using Google Chrome, I can get a breakdown of how much time different aspects of a web page "read" takes here.

For instance, on this page, it breaks down (for me, will vary depending on your connection)

569ms Documents (ms is milliseconds)
69ms Stylesheets
195ms Images
235ms Scripts
1.44s total (so if you notice you have to wait for the page, and it seems slow, that's why)

The scripts are mostly related to the targeted advertising.

If I multiply the amount of "time" and bandwidth consumed by the advertising images, and more silently but deadly, the scripts, times all the users of dz.com, anything I do is negligible in comparison, in terms of "wasting bandwidth".

let's see, I can get "size" info also. the "largest" stuff is associated with advertising also.

looking back on www.dropzone.com
size:
documents
31.5KB documents
23.69KB stylesheets
244.39KB images
75.46KB scripts (javascripts)
375.04KB total

So just going to www.dropzone.com forces you to download 375.04KB of stuff. (then more on every page as you navigate down)

latency:
171ms documents
120ms stylesheets
145ms images
528ms scripts (typically ad related)
1.41s total

Why doesn't Sparky complain about all that?
Why is that "good" but me bad?
ascii text is an incredibly concise, low-bandwidth way of transmitting information in comparison. And I think the text is what Sparky doesn't like? He probably doesn't click on any of the attachments I add.

are the attachments the problem, or the text?

[Farflung 0]

I've learned video taping certain things makes sense on paper but fall short when viewed later.

I had some friends over to watch my video with a perfect arch, I was truly in rare form. Silver helmet with 'Captain Kill' hand painted across the side and a brand new pair of boots; you could still smell the leather.

Then the obligatory, yeee....hawww.....wahhh......whooooo, while struggling not to lose control.

This inevitably leads to a less than focused moment while I'm grabbing around before main release.

Who's the fat chick? Man you make a funny face. It sure doesn't take long, blah, blah, blah.

So that was the last time I was video taped having sex. I went on to show them some video of skydivers from California City.

Who's the fat chick? Man they make funny faces. It sure doesn't last long. Yep, no denying it; skydivers from California City look like me having sex. Just another burden I've learned to live with all these years.

[snowmman 3]

I said Petey referred to himself as Pete. I wanted to back up that claim.

The following is a post Petey made elsewhere on the web. (this one is from Feb 12, 2005). It's typical of many posts of his, and aligns with his book.

Aw come on Cherry Pie. You remind me of Goebbles. Of course our troops target journalist. Our snipers in Faluja targeted unarmed civilians, women and children, some only infants.
How can I be so sure? As Rap Brown said: "Violence is as American as Mom and cherry pie."
What am I basing my opinion on. Seven years as a refugee advisor in Vietnam's Mekong Delta. I witnessed all sorts of genocide on a regular basis. You name it I saw it. However, it was the photos that the GI's carried about in their wallets. Atrocities that they'd committed and posed for. Photos that they were so proud of. They were a sign of manhood. They were so anxious to share them with me. Some had never even been in combat. One GI worked in the kitchen ordering around a crew of moma-sons. He found some bodies stacked behind a connex box. He got a clever and hacked off a couple of heads and had his mate take his picture holding the heads by their. He'd jammed lit cigarette in their mouths.

Don't tell me about our fine upstanding GI's. I don't buy it. Oh yes, as for freedom, have you got around to reading Patriot Acts I & II???
Pete

It's all about pattern matching. See here at SI we suck in the entire web every night, and then run proprietary search algorithms, on current web, and even tracking deltas to old web. We use that to project the actions of the world, and profit accordingly. We see all bandwidth as good bandwidth, as more raw data improves our matching capabilities.


Here's another post by Petey, for example. circa 2005. There are more recent posts. In 2005 Petey was roughly 79ish? So yes Orange1, I know old folks can use computers.

Isn’t time to stop lying and tell the truth. We Americans are barbarians. We always have been ever since our calvary massacred the Indians in a systematic manner. Winter Soldier is right on target. A World War II Marine, I spent seven years in Vietnam throughout much the war. As a refugee advisor in the Mekong Delta I witnessed atrocities of innocent civilians on a regulart bases. The napalm and white phosphorus were the worst. Seeing villagers taht I had known personally burned alive is a horror I will never forget. The Special Forces called them barbacue runs.
The combat grunts (70% were REMF)all had photos of atrocities they’d committed and posed for them. They were proud. It was the macho thing to do. Those of girls and women were the worst. Many had necklaces of peoples ears that they enjoyed wearing in the province capital(s)
Then there was the CIA and their interrogation centers at every province capital. Vietnamese trained at the University of the Americas at Fort Benning usually carried out thes atrtocities but were supervised by CIA operatives.
Yes, Jane Fonda is a brave American hero. I admire her intestinal fortitude.

[snowmman 3]

The book account is correct and visible thru google books
(pages are correct). I've decided you all are too lazy so I'm not going to include the url...

I just noticed that Petey's account here, had him "ordered to leave"...which is interesting since the brother's wife mentioned that suspicion (being kicked out of china, according to Bruce's interview)

this is off a web comments section, posted 4 June, 2009

I witnessed the worst of the Tiananmen Massacre at Muxidi. It is documented on pages 24 & 25 of Alan L. Heil, jr. book, "Voice of America, A History". Alan Pessin, VOA Bureau Chief in Beijing, broadcast my account countless times in Mandarin throughout China, and thus was ordered to leave. Fortunately I'd left, for camera crews arrived at my school, the College of Economic Management, to film me. A condensed version was published in the Plaza, a Japanese bilingual magazine. I have photos of


Hey while I'm at it: around the time I passed the name to Carr, we had the episode with the Night Clerk From China showing up at an FBI office somewhere and giving an interview. Since at the time I was all into Petey and his travels everywhere, including his stint teaching English as a second language in China, and the Night Clerk was supposedly in China as ESL teacher, I was sure there was something weird going on...
but apparently not...

It's funny how you can't trust anything anyone says on this. Everyone is full of shit. Larry Carr is the most full of shit.

[snowmman 3]

I think I'm the only reader Petey has in the whole world.

Have I read everything he's written? Probably.

here's sept. 30, 2005
Titled "Nation of Cowards"

Returning to America after thirty years traveling about Asia and the Middle East, I experienced a reversed culture shock. I was stunned at how frightened Americans are. As a Vietnamese living in New Orleans resently said. "The hurricane was nothing new for us Vienamese. We have had so much worse experiences. However it was different for the Americans.They were so terrified."

It's so easy to control the American people. Frighten them and they'll follow you like docile sheep.All bush has to do to get his rating back up in the ninety percentile is to stage another "terrorist" attack. The masses along with their Democrat leaders will fall right in line. They'll be led to the slaughter.

Fear cripples a nation. If we are occupied by another nation, see how many Quizlings grovel at the feet of their conquerors. It will be an interesting observations. Soon after the World Trade Center disaster, Newsweek interviewed Moms across the nation who were the soccer moms. They said without exception that they were now security moms and shifted their allegience to the Republican Party. They didn't care about freedom any longer. They wanted security. They wanted their children to be protected from the "enemy". Is this why generation after generation fought and died for our Bill of Rights? So that a nation of wimps could hand it over to a gang of Nazi plutocrats?

[snowmman 3]

I asked the question whether anyone here knew about flour bag jumps in the '60s. No one answered.

Get this:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1074060/index.htm
August 13, 1962
Sports Illustrated.
Sixth World Championships at Orange New Jersey.

Also for sale at the center are such accessories as a wind-drift indicator, a striped baton to hand to another sky diver during free fall, a combination altimeter and stopwatch, a ladies' fancy-colored jump suit and a Sky Diver flour bag filled with flour for "smoke jumps." The bag is attached to your leg and trails a smooth stream of "smoke" during free fall. It permits a kind of nonmechanical skywriting.

You fuckers are holding out on me!
Don't make me sneak into your houses and mess with your reserve pack!

Now, ask yourself, how's a whuffo like me know about flour bag jumps from the sixties?

(edit) sorry for the temp nutty overbolding..I should have previewed my post. Also updated source url.

(edit) video of a modern flour bag jump. (lots of jumpers) ..Interesting these guys have bags attached by rope, so the bags flop in the air behind them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyzloR06ZIo&feature=player_embedded#

Has anyone done a flour bag jump like this in the modern era? This seems different than the thing described in '62.
Airtwardo could give us some detail, I suspect.

[JerryThomas 0]

Snowmman. Did you buy DropZone.Ive been trying to read all the post and it apears that you may have with all your Irelevent post.Jerry

[snowmman 3]

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Snowmman. Did you buy DropZone.Ive been trying to read all the post and it apears that you may have with all your Irelevent post.Jerry

sorry for the off-topic stuff Jerry.
Maybe you can get it back on track?
(edit) What's the average diameter of the trees in the woods you've been looking in? I'm wondering about growth rate and how it applies to the Cooper case, and whether a fireball could ignite brush in the Washougal in 1971.

[JerryThomas 0]

Perfect ?. There is some old growth especialy around dougan falls and the head waters of the washougal.How it relates to the cooper case is only your guess . except for the fact that the clear cut areas that has been searched. Mostly because it was clear cut. However the national forest has not been touched and the head waters of the washougal and its tributaries are in the national forrest. Now let's examine one, the forest floor it is still the same in all area's covered with debris. Regardles as to when it was cut. Still if anything was found it should have been reported. That doesn't mean that it was. This is why. If something is found related to a crime or of historical value, the logging operation or construction operation is haulted. So your question can be answered, with a question . What do You Think. As for a flare falling from the sky on the night of the jump! that could be possible. Remember there was a lot of searcher's in the wood's that night. Now examine the fact that the FBI did consider the posibility that Cooper's brief case held road flare's. It is a fact that the color of the sticks in cooper's brief case was that of flare's. If anyone can say different then they should be considered as a person telling lies and trying to make a name for theselve's. Fireballs from the sky was realy a normal observation in that time frame ,Thanksgiving popping fireworks.. Still there is a point that could be made about flarse being seen in this area that night.However I would not put to much faith into this sighting . I don't care what Galen Cook say's. It is like most people trying to make money off this case. Anything Goes. Especialy in this time of deppresion . The fact is the case has not been solved and there is no suspects that can be proven by DNA testing Or any other way. One thing for sure .All suspects in this case to include duane Webber is and never could be COOPRR.Jerry

[JerryThomas 0]

Slugo. Call me. We need to talk.Jerry

[snowmman 3]

Jerry: is there poison oak in that area? in 1971? Poison oak skin reaction takes multiple exposures to sensitize the skin. Jo: Did Duane ever get poison oak skin reaction? Poison ivy is more an east coast thing, but I don't think exposure to one, counts for sensitizing you to the other. Maybe there's a botanist out there who can fill in this blank.

(edit) Jerry said:

"Remember there was a lot of searcher's in the wood's that night. "

That's new data. I didn't know there were searchers in the woods on the night of 11/24/71. That's pretty odd. Do you have more on this, Jerry?

(edit) About making money off this case. I thought I've been very transparent. So far I've just made $23,000. I don't know about how much others are making hay with this. Not as much as I've bragged, but it's been difficult to get people to pay true value.

[snowmman 3]

I wasn't familiar with it, and it was misspelled, but there's a wikipedia entry for it.

You learn a little bit of everything on the DBC thread.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quisling

"Quisling, after Norwegian politician Vidkun Quisling, who assisted Nazi Germany to conquer his own country and ruled the collaborationist Norwegian government, is a term used to describe traitors and collaborators. It was most commonly used for fascist political parties and military and paramilitary forces in occupied Allied countries which collaborated with Axis occupiers in World War II, as well as for their members and other collaborators.

The term was coined by the British newspaper The Times on 15 April 1940, entitled "Quislings everywhere." The editorial asserted: "To writers, the word Quisling is a gift from the gods. If they had been ordered to invent a new word for traitor... they could hardly have hit upon a more brilliant combination of letters. Actually it contrives to suggest something at once slippery and tortuous."

The term was used by the then Prime Minister of the United Kingdom Winston Churchill during an address to both houses of Congress in the United States of America on the 26 December 1941. Commenting upon the effect of a number of Allied victories against Axis forces, and moreover the United States’ decision to enter the war, Churchill opined that; “Hope has returned to the hearts of scores of millions of men and women, and with that hope there burns the flame of anger against the brutal, corrupt invader. And still more fiercely burn the fires of hatred and contempt for the filthy Quislings whom he has suborned.” It subsequently entered the language, and became a target for political cartoonists.
...
The term 'quisling' was also used by Max Brooks in his recent zombie-themed novel, World War Z, to describe human survivors of the zombie war who subsequently lost their minds, and would comport themselves in a manner that was indistinguishable from the actual undead."

[georger 244]

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I wasn't familiar with it, and it was misspelled, but there's a wikipedia entry for it.

You learn a little bit of everything on the DBC thread.

Try "SCHLEMIEL" or "PUTZ".

Sometimes they both apply -

[snowmman 3]

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I wasn't familiar with it, and it was misspelled, but there's a wikipedia entry for it.

You learn a little bit of everything on the DBC thread.

Try "SCHLEMIEL" or "PUTZ".

Sometimes they both apply -

You're saying I offended your sensibilities somehow?
How exactly?
By my very existence, or something I posted?

Are you another bandwidth bigot? Or just the bombastic georger of old?

Explain.

[eagleeyeWindsor 0]

Bruce,
Why are you doing this to me? Alden and Barbara are winos. They've been winos for a long time. It sounds as though they were drunk when you called them. Ten years ago they consumed several gallons of an evening. The kind that comes in a box. Barbara has bipolar disorder.

Please leave my daughter alone. She has been a real nightmare. She is schizophrenic and is in a mental health facility. She is why I came down here from Deer Park. At the present she's disappear. I am in great distress.

You know that I am not D. B. Cooper. You may not like my antiwar crusade. The am a member of Veterans for Peace. We feel that Obama has deceived us. How you got a hold of my protest novel I can't imagine. However it has a copy write (or how ever you spell it) with the Library of Congress. This appears to be a personal vendetta. Why? I'm an old man with prostate cancer. It is at the critical stage. What is it you want?

Sheridan Peterson

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[email]

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[snowmman 3]

Sheridan,
I'm assuming you actually posted the above, and if you did, I welcome you to the forum.

I have read as much of your writing as I can find. I led this thread thru a painful (for me) look at vietnam.

I am being honest, when I say that you caused me to have many a gutwrenching moment, realizing there was US and world history I was not aware of.

You may be off the curve that some people use when they pick people to listen to. But I think you, indirectly thru me, helped get people to think about things they would not have thought about otherwise.

Now after digesting everything, even though you have a very interesting history, that I for one would like to hear more about, I decided you weren't Cooper.

However, 377 here, nagged that you were the best suspect, in terms of matching a theoretical model, that we ever heard of. Orange1 agreed. So we thought it would nice to have Bruce call you. We were flabbergasted when we found the FBI had investigated you and taken DNA. We have heard of such a small number of suspects, that it was an amazing coincidence.


We all wished we could get you here, just to hear more. But especially, to tell us more about skydiving in the WA area in the '60s.

Even if you weren't Cooper, you have a lot more relevant info then any other jerk that posts here, I think.

Also, Vietnam was THE major event of that era. Cooper may have been connected to Vietnam in some random way. Other hijackers were, sometimes civilian. Hahneman for instance.

Your civilian USAID experience was unique and I think not understood or well appreciated by people who think they understood Vietnam.

The entire CORDS/USAID story in vietnam was not well publicized.

I read a recent account, where the author claimed the programs were good and welll-intentioned, but that mixing the programs with ducking bullets was a recipe for disaster.

If indeed you are Sheridan, I say "welcome". I'd like to hear your story.

This thread is a weird collection of outcasts. You would be right to walk away. But there are a lot of experts. A lot of smart people, and it's a world-wide audience. Orange1, for instance, is in South Africa.

Again, greetings.

[eagleeyeWindsor 0]

Hey Larry Carr:

I was not kicked out of China. That was Alan Pessin, Bureau Chief for VOA. He was kicked out for broadcasting my statement that Dein Zhao Ping and Li Pung were war criminals. I was in Akita, Japan when Pessin made the broadcast.

What has all this got to do with D.B.Cooper? Who are you anyway? Why the harassment?

Is it political? Are you CIA? Do think there is an Osama bin Lauden and an al Queada and that the aircraft fuel caused the World Trade Center to collapse? And that Saddam Hussain and bin Lauden are or were enemies of the U.S.? And that Israel is a democratic free society who has the Palestinians best interests at heart? Is that what it is all about?

Sheridan Peterson

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[snowmman 3]

Sheridan,
This is a sport skydiving web site, as you can tell.

A lot of these guys talk like skydiving started in 1970.

Sometimes it seems like none of them know anything about what was going on in the early '60s.

You said that you experimented with "bat wings" then. What did you do? What happened? where?

This is skydiving history/trivia....so stuff like that is cool to talk about also.

But heck, you've been around longer than all of us. Anything you've got to say is more interesting than more spew from 20 year olds.

[snowmman 3]

Sheridan
You and I have a common enemy in larry carr. (lower case, intentional. :) )

He is everything you can imagine in terms of being a dolt, too confident in the FBI and it's place in the USA.

I have not posted my name here, because privacy is so hard to maintain. You won't believe me anyhow.

I have no govt connection. I work with computers for a living. I read a lot. I just turned 50 last year. I have never skydived. There are a number of younger and older jumpers on this thread though. There is one military grunt from Vietnam days: Jerry Thomas.

377 is a lawyer but very fair minded. Jo Weber is here, and she is a little bit crazy (I'm sure you've read about her Duane Weber vendetta). I think there's a consensus here to ignore her, so don't get all riled up by any of her posts.

Georger is a smart guy, but can be inflammatory, so don't get too worked up if he responds.

Orange1 is a woman, cool, calm and collected. Very smart.

Larry Carr used to post here as "ckret" but left around Nov. 2008.

There are some others.

[snowmman 3]

On your book, Sheridan.

I purchased a copy from Lulu.com last year for $25 (the pdf).

I read it and asked 377 to read it. I didn't post the pdf anywhere publicly accessible.

I try my best to respect privacy, but curiosity sometimes makes me behave badly.

I do have a lot of questions about your book, but I'll let you decide if you want to discuss that here.

I'm mostly excited that someone I thought about a lot is actually here. Again, welcome.

[snowmman 3]

Sheridan
I saw you updated your jump profile.
Is that D license number accurate? I didn't realize you were a relatively early D license. I thought maybe you had been PCA-only.

(edit) There was someone who posted here recently, giving us crap like he was an oldtimer. He was D 5476! You got that beat, if the D-2024 is right.

(edit) Oh: when you say "14 years".....I think most people here don't count years as "active jumping years"...14 makes it sound like you started 14 years ago, given the typical way people use that field? I think? Maybe someone else can comment. How do non-active jumpers fill in their "years in the sport" ??? Do you just subtract start year from current year?

(edit) There are some people from your era at the site, but they don't post to this thread.
Jerry Baumchen D-1543 for instance. There could be some old friends (or non-friends! :) from back in the day, here.

[eagleeyeWindsor 0]

Snowman,

Outside of the library of congress you are surely the only guy who has a copy of my book. I cancelled their connection after they goofed up the publication by putting the cover in the middle of the text. I wonder if anyone else has a copy? I wonder who got the $25? I don't know what to imagine.

I'll get back to you later after I can absorb this. I'm a bit overwhelmed.

Sheridan

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[snowmman 3]

Thanks for the response Sheridan (I don't know if you prefer Sheridan or Pete?) we usually just use the assumed names...your "eagleeyeWindsor" is kind of long..but I'll use whatever you sign.

If you didn't get the $25 from lulu, heck I'll paypal you the $25 if you got stiffed!

I actually thought I might be the only person in the world who bought it. I actually posted that thought here.

Yeah, I can imagine its all a rush. This thread can be fun, or really really a pain in the ass to post to.

Give it some thought and come on back. You can send private messages to people too, if you don't want to discuss stuff publicly.

I think you'll like chatting with 377. He's one of the older-timers who posts here, and he's fascinated with history.

Orange1 is younger but she's fascinated with world history, and well read.

(edit) I realized they double printed pages in your book. I chopped out the extra pages in my copy, so it was no problem.

(edit) I will note, that if you post here, you have the bragging rights of being the only skydiver that I know of, that has been investigated by the FBI with respect to DBC, and had DNA taken.

A lot of people want to think they're cool because the FBI talked to them, but they're like kids from 1970, which doesn't make any sense.

[Amazon 7]

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Sheridan
I saw you updated your jump profile.
Is that D license number accurate? I didn't realize you were a relatively early D license. I thought maybe you had been PCA-only.

(edit) There was someone who posted here recently, giving us crap like he was an oldtimer. He was D 5476! You got that beat, if the D-2024 is right.

(edit) Oh: when you say "14 years".....I think most people here don't count years as "active jumping years"...14 makes it sound like you started 14 years ago, given the typical way people use that field? I think? Maybe someone else can comment. How do non-active jumpers fill in their "years in the sport" ??? Do you just subtract start year from current year?

(edit) There are some people from your era at the site, but they don't post to this thread.
Jerry Baumchen D-1543 for instance. There could be some old friends (or non-friends! :) from back in the day, here.

Psst.. Snow.... mine is D-4888

Told ya I was old and decrepit