snowmman 3
In my efforts to engage Sheridan and learn more about the FBI's investigation of him, I have had the pleasure of talking to several FBI agents from the San Francisco area, who have been helpful and exceptionally curtious.
My first duty is to report, sadly, at least for Snoww and I, that Noelle Devereaux has married. Sigh.
Secondly, the PIO in SF thought that I would enjoy talking to one of their long-time SF agents who also worked on the Cooper case back in the day.
This agent's name is George Grotz, and here is a report on our very pleasant conversation last week:
George was a 2-month rookie G-man in the Seattle office when Danny Boy jumped. George ended up in the San Francisco office for much of his career and just retired. He also pulled an extensive hitch in DC doing some kind of field training of agents and evaluations.
George is a nice guy. Lives in SF area.
His first words to me were, "Have you found him?," meaning DB Cooper. Then he asked if I had spoken with Ralph, which I found interesting. Why would a Seattle guy direct me a Portland player? I wonder if that's the whole FBI program, namely, send everybody to Himms and get the "authorized" story.
We talked back and forth about Himms and the case. George really surprised me with his concern when I told him that Ralph won't talk to me because I can't pay his price, although I think the bigger reason is that I ask too many questions that Ralph doesn't want to answer.
"I don't think retired FBI agents should ever charge for talking about their cases," he said in a stern voice.
George did say that Ron Nelson was the case agent in Seattle. George didn't have any specifics on how the case was handled in Seattle, such as how often they spoke to Russ Calame in SLC. George must have been busy getting everybody coffee back in those days. He said they didn't do too much in Seattle when the skyjacking was in progress.
"We gave him the money; there was not much else to do," was what I heard.
George said there was an extensive ground search just days after the jump. He characterized it as a “wild goose-chase.” He also claimed that the original coordinates given by the pilots were off by 25 miles, which I find very intriguing.
This initial ground search was based in Vancouver, and George doesn’t exactly remember where it as centered, but he said they went north on I-5 to get there. He also said they drove about 30 minutes to get there, which could also be Ariel, so I got confused, or maybe George was confused.
George never heard any reports about a fiery object seen coming out of a plane and arcing west of Vancouver.
George was on the ground search in March, 1972. He said they got more information from the pilots, and he heard about the curtsey for the first time.
He said there was still snow on the ground, and that they found a large white sheet strung up in the trees saying, "Good Luck DB Cooper." George indicated that he had a much easier time in the woods than the soldiers who slept in tents in the woods while George and feds went to a hotel. Plus, the soldiers kept straight lines going over their terrain, making it very rugged physically, while the FBI guys were behind them, apparently strolling along.
“God, we were out there for weeks, it seemed like, and I was so glad I was out of the Army,” he said with a laugh.
He volunteered that they didn’t find anything, and said, ”But a cop found a young woman’s body in a cistern.”
George was in Seattle for a year, leaving in Sept. ‘72 for Cleveland.
I sent an email to George asking for contact info on Ron Nelson, but haven't heard back.
My first duty is to report, sadly, at least for Snoww and I, that Noelle Devereaux has married. Sigh.
Secondly, the PIO in SF thought that I would enjoy talking to one of their long-time SF agents who also worked on the Cooper case back in the day.
This agent's name is George Grotz, and here is a report on our very pleasant conversation last week:
George was a 2-month rookie G-man in the Seattle office when Danny Boy jumped. George ended up in the San Francisco office for much of his career and just retired. He also pulled an extensive hitch in DC doing some kind of field training of agents and evaluations.
George is a nice guy. Lives in SF area.
His first words to me were, "Have you found him?," meaning DB Cooper. Then he asked if I had spoken with Ralph, which I found interesting. Why would a Seattle guy direct me a Portland player? I wonder if that's the whole FBI program, namely, send everybody to Himms and get the "authorized" story.
We talked back and forth about Himms and the case. George really surprised me with his concern when I told him that Ralph won't talk to me because I can't pay his price, although I think the bigger reason is that I ask too many questions that Ralph doesn't want to answer.
"I don't think retired FBI agents should ever charge for talking about their cases," he said in a stern voice.
George did say that Ron Nelson was the case agent in Seattle. George didn't have any specifics on how the case was handled in Seattle, such as how often they spoke to Russ Calame in SLC. George must have been busy getting everybody coffee back in those days. He said they didn't do too much in Seattle when the skyjacking was in progress.
"We gave him the money; there was not much else to do," was what I heard.
George said there was an extensive ground search just days after the jump. He characterized it as a “wild goose-chase.” He also claimed that the original coordinates given by the pilots were off by 25 miles, which I find very intriguing.
This initial ground search was based in Vancouver, and George doesn’t exactly remember where it as centered, but he said they went north on I-5 to get there. He also said they drove about 30 minutes to get there, which could also be Ariel, so I got confused, or maybe George was confused.
George never heard any reports about a fiery object seen coming out of a plane and arcing west of Vancouver.
George was on the ground search in March, 1972. He said they got more information from the pilots, and he heard about the curtsey for the first time.
He said there was still snow on the ground, and that they found a large white sheet strung up in the trees saying, "Good Luck DB Cooper." George indicated that he had a much easier time in the woods than the soldiers who slept in tents in the woods while George and feds went to a hotel. Plus, the soldiers kept straight lines going over their terrain, making it very rugged physically, while the FBI guys were behind them, apparently strolling along.
“God, we were out there for weeks, it seemed like, and I was so glad I was out of the Army,” he said with a laugh.
He volunteered that they didn’t find anything, and said, ”But a cop found a young woman’s body in a cistern.”
George was in Seattle for a year, leaving in Sept. ‘72 for Cleveland.
I sent an email to George asking for contact info on Ron Nelson, but haven't heard back.
georger 244
QuoteGlad to see you made it here, Sheridan, and folks, I can verify that the guy posting here as Sheridan Peterson, eagleyeWindsor is the real deal.
Sheridan and I have exchanged a number of emails in the past week or two, and the tone, style and content of his emails to me is identical to what he is posting here on the thread.
In those emails I have suggested he visit this thread and join the party.
So, I am very pleased that you are here, Sheridan, and I echo all the requests to hear your stories.
Let 'er rip.
To all: I also have to revise my opinion of Sheridan's writing, for as I read his recent emails I have found them to be well-crafted and compelling. I had based my previous opinion on the few samples I had, such as the Smokejumper magazine article.
I hope Mr. Sheridan lives up to your expectations.
If he comes back at all.
Good luck Sparky.
Amazon 7
A little birdie told me there was a DZ in the Vancouver WA area about that time in 1971...Its before my coming to WA in Late spring 1972 so I don't know.
snowmman 3
Excellent work as usual Bruce. I hope you're enjoying it, because you're doing real work for free, and as a reader I enjoy getting details that I've been curious about and especially the stuff that it is brand new and out of left field. Random things do occur!
You said "when I told him that Ralph won't talk to me because I can't pay his price, although I think the bigger reason is that I ask too many questions ..."
I never knew Ralph gets paid, still, for commentary on this case. Is that true? Ralph gets paid whenever he talks to anyone? That would be amazing if true.
Did someone actually quote you a price? I thought Sluggo talked to him for a little bit (and the conversation was pretty lame, if I remember Sluggo's account).
(edit) oh, and Bruce, do you know anything about what Jerry Thomas was saying? Did Jerry just not understand something, or was making a joke, or ??? I can't see any way that Jerry or H. had conversations with Pete in 1995. (edit) I think Pete was in China or Japan then? Is Jerry making something up? If so, why? Or is there something there?
(edit) I wonder what the total amount is that's been paid to Himmelsach over the years on this thing. Is it just a little or ??
You said "when I told him that Ralph won't talk to me because I can't pay his price, although I think the bigger reason is that I ask too many questions ..."
I never knew Ralph gets paid, still, for commentary on this case. Is that true? Ralph gets paid whenever he talks to anyone? That would be amazing if true.
Did someone actually quote you a price? I thought Sluggo talked to him for a little bit (and the conversation was pretty lame, if I remember Sluggo's account).
(edit) oh, and Bruce, do you know anything about what Jerry Thomas was saying? Did Jerry just not understand something, or was making a joke, or ??? I can't see any way that Jerry or H. had conversations with Pete in 1995. (edit) I think Pete was in China or Japan then? Is Jerry making something up? If so, why? Or is there something there?
(edit) I wonder what the total amount is that's been paid to Himmelsach over the years on this thing. Is it just a little or ??
snowmman 3
Just had a thought, Bruce.
Larry Carr has told us (either rightly or wrongly) that he has no idea where the flight path map came from or how it was generated.
it's apparently radar locations, at 1 minute intervals.
All these FBI guys, if you could quiz them on if they ever saw the same flight path map (the picture is at the fbi site..it's marked with pencil)...
We've seen the 1972 flight path marked around the predicted DZ, and the flight path on it aligns with the flight path on the larger map we have now. But still, people want to say we don't know the flight path, when it seems obvious we do.
Anything you can add to that, including stuff like Ralph saying he never saw the flight path map! I suspect the full flight path map must have been available in 1972
But what did they use when they said they flew the flight path with planes abreast for a search? Did they just follow the airways or ???
(edit) How could the pilots have given any coordinates back then? I don't understand the off by 25 miles thing.
The news accounts from then do have this idea of the ground search location shifting. I wonder if that's all related. They were apparently over by Woodland at first, right? at least news reports made it sound that way.
Woodland is just off I-5 at the Lewis River. The columbia river is right there too.
(edit) "radar reports" are mentioned by SA Manning as early as 11/29/71 here
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=OCYfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=s1gEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1835,7502435&dq=hijacking+woodland&hl=en
Larry Carr has told us (either rightly or wrongly) that he has no idea where the flight path map came from or how it was generated.
it's apparently radar locations, at 1 minute intervals.
All these FBI guys, if you could quiz them on if they ever saw the same flight path map (the picture is at the fbi site..it's marked with pencil)...
We've seen the 1972 flight path marked around the predicted DZ, and the flight path on it aligns with the flight path on the larger map we have now. But still, people want to say we don't know the flight path, when it seems obvious we do.
Anything you can add to that, including stuff like Ralph saying he never saw the flight path map! I suspect the full flight path map must have been available in 1972
But what did they use when they said they flew the flight path with planes abreast for a search? Did they just follow the airways or ???
(edit) How could the pilots have given any coordinates back then? I don't understand the off by 25 miles thing.
The news accounts from then do have this idea of the ground search location shifting. I wonder if that's all related. They were apparently over by Woodland at first, right? at least news reports made it sound that way.
Woodland is just off I-5 at the Lewis River. The columbia river is right there too.
(edit) "radar reports" are mentioned by SA Manning as early as 11/29/71 here
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=OCYfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=s1gEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1835,7502435&dq=hijacking+woodland&hl=en
Ralph has never given me an exact figure on what he would like to be paid. Rather, I don't think Ralph is getting paid by anyone, and that seems to be the problem. He feels ripped off - that he is being exploited by the media - he gives them gold nuggets and he gets nothing in return.
I told Ralph that the best I could do was buy him lunch, and he laughed politely. I added that I'd give him ten percent of anything I made that featured his contributions, but he deferred.
As for my giving stuff away for free, here, well, I feel it is money well spent. I wouldn't have half the info I have now if it wasn't for the thread - I never would have heard about Braden, Waugh, Plaster, Sheridan - or all the flight path stuff and parachute detail. And all the phone numbers, etc.
Heck, I'd still be trying to figure out what da hay is an NB 8.
Besides, I believe in stirring the pot. Who knows, maybe some g-man on his death bed is gonna say to a nephew - here kid, give this file to that sonovabitch writer on the DZ who eveybody calls Cousin Brucie..........
...and I'll post that too, as a hat tip to y'all.
I told Ralph that the best I could do was buy him lunch, and he laughed politely. I added that I'd give him ten percent of anything I made that featured his contributions, but he deferred.
As for my giving stuff away for free, here, well, I feel it is money well spent. I wouldn't have half the info I have now if it wasn't for the thread - I never would have heard about Braden, Waugh, Plaster, Sheridan - or all the flight path stuff and parachute detail. And all the phone numbers, etc.
Heck, I'd still be trying to figure out what da hay is an NB 8.
Besides, I believe in stirring the pot. Who knows, maybe some g-man on his death bed is gonna say to a nephew - here kid, give this file to that sonovabitch writer on the DZ who eveybody calls Cousin Brucie..........
...and I'll post that too, as a hat tip to y'all.
Amazon 7
QuoteHeck, I'd still be trying to figure out what da hay is an NB 8.
Want to jump one
You can be in the same first jump class with snowmman this summer
er, no thanks. I have a problem with that first step thing.
But, I'm touched that you asked, Amazon
But, I'm touched that you asked, Amazon
snowmman 3
QuoteRalph has never given me an exact figure on what he would like to be paid. Rather, I don't think Ralph is getting paid by anyone, and that seems to be the problem. He feels ripped off - that he is being exploited by the media - he gives them gold nuggets and he gets nothing in return.
Ralph feels ripped off?
What an asshole.
He got paid by taxes to be a government employee. I don't know if there's a pension or what.
He feels ripped off because "he's giving them nuggets?"
He ain't giving shit. He's got nothing to give. He's a loser.
I feel ripped off by the USG employing guys like Himmelsbach.
(edit) Tell Ralph you heard rumors there's a guy on the internet named snowmman who's making money off DBC hand over fist. And he's not paying a red cent in taxes on it, and giving the FBI, the CIA, the IRS, and anyone else he can find, the middle finger while he's doing it, because he knows he's untouchable because they don't want to put him on the stand and reveal the truth.
It's like printing fucking money. Ka-ching. Damn straight Himmelsbach should feel cheated. I'm going to buy his place and put up a Walmart.
377 22
QuoteMy first duty is to report, sadly, at least for Snoww and I, that Noelle Devereaux has married. Sigh.
This is a skydiver forum Bruce. Marriages to other skydivers are viewed as "negotiable". Marriages to Whuffos are totally ignored. Snow hasn't jumped yet, but he has been fully trained on ground procedures regarding the above.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377 22
Smoke flares were used in the 60s and still are. I never saw illuminating flares used even on night jumps, but I heard they were used. The night jump gear I saw used battery powered lights.
I saw flour used a few times on day jumps In the late 60s but it wasn't very effective visually. Smoke flares were far better but posed a danger of burns and also line snags on the boot mounted flare brackets.
Pilots hated chemical burn devices of all kinds. Some refused to carry jumpers using flares of any kind. Too dangerous. More than one piston powered jumpship I've flown in reeked of avgas. Bet it wouldn't have taken much of an ignition source to get things roaring.
377
I saw flour used a few times on day jumps In the late 60s but it wasn't very effective visually. Smoke flares were far better but posed a danger of burns and also line snags on the boot mounted flare brackets.
Pilots hated chemical burn devices of all kinds. Some refused to carry jumpers using flares of any kind. Too dangerous. More than one piston powered jumpship I've flown in reeked of avgas. Bet it wouldn't have taken much of an ignition source to get things roaring.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377 22
QuoteHe said there was still snow on the ground, and that they found a large white sheet strung up in the trees saying, "Good Luck DB Cooper." George indicated that he had a much easier time in the woods than the soldiers who slept in tents in the woods while George and feds went to a hotel. Plus, the soldiers kept straight lines going over their terrain, making it very rugged physically, while the FBI guys were behind them, apparently strolling along.
proof that civilians were searching on their own, probably looking for a body and the cash.
If we only had the precise lat Lon coordinates of the ground strike. Talk about a major GEOCACHE!
The message on the sheet must have been discouraging to the FBI. Not only had some civilians beat them to the search area, but they were rooting for the bad guy.
Bruce, you have really moved the forum content up a couple of notches. Nice going.
Hope Pete returns. He is one of the few old time jumpers who is left wing, anti war and skeptical of the government. That's refreshing to me.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Ya know, just about everyone is on the take now days. It's been like that for ever behind closed doors. Now corporations can own elected officials out in the open.
"Dinner Hell! I want a yacht. hot and cold naked running girls and an off shore account."
I'll bet this thread is on the NSA's top 10 list with all the shit that's been posted here. If there was a place to give any of them the finger this would be the place. I think Himmelsbach deserves a big FUCK YOU for charging for information about a public funded investigation.
No wonder they never found Cooper...
By the way...Nice work Bruce!
"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan
"Dinner Hell! I want a yacht. hot and cold naked running girls and an off shore account."
I'll bet this thread is on the NSA's top 10 list with all the shit that's been posted here. If there was a place to give any of them the finger this would be the place. I think Himmelsbach deserves a big FUCK YOU for charging for information about a public funded investigation.
No wonder they never found Cooper...
By the way...Nice work Bruce!
"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan
snowmman 3
Well, one of the core things with this Cooper thing, is everyone likes to think they have secret information. (including the FBI)
The main secret is that the FBI investigation was no where near as exhaustive as they claim.
The details of the whole Pete saga prove it. Also way back early in the thread, I was trying to say that this notion of "everyone knew everyone" back then, and small community etc, was BS. Or that the FBI investigated everyone worthwhile.
I would really like to find any jumper that knew/remembers Pete, just to test that theory of "everyone knows everyone". That one jumper who has Pete's name in his jump log, couldn't remember Pete. (they had significant age differences at the time)
As far as I can tell, the first time the FBI talked to Pete was 2002-2003. So they were investigating a jumper just 7 years ago. And even though he seems reasonable to be in a pool of 1400 possibles, the investigation seems to have been incredibly light..i.e. "do you match DNA?" if not...we move on.
I think, as we've always said, that there's not enough stuff to ever prove anyone was Cooper. But we can prove that there's been a lot of BS.
Note the BS continues, with Tom Kaye etc. It's like the FBI doesn't have a modus operandi for interacting with the public, that doesn't involve BS.
The main secret is that the FBI investigation was no where near as exhaustive as they claim.
The details of the whole Pete saga prove it. Also way back early in the thread, I was trying to say that this notion of "everyone knew everyone" back then, and small community etc, was BS. Or that the FBI investigated everyone worthwhile.
I would really like to find any jumper that knew/remembers Pete, just to test that theory of "everyone knows everyone". That one jumper who has Pete's name in his jump log, couldn't remember Pete. (they had significant age differences at the time)
As far as I can tell, the first time the FBI talked to Pete was 2002-2003. So they were investigating a jumper just 7 years ago. And even though he seems reasonable to be in a pool of 1400 possibles, the investigation seems to have been incredibly light..i.e. "do you match DNA?" if not...we move on.
I think, as we've always said, that there's not enough stuff to ever prove anyone was Cooper. But we can prove that there's been a lot of BS.
Note the BS continues, with Tom Kaye etc. It's like the FBI doesn't have a modus operandi for interacting with the public, that doesn't involve BS.
snowmman 3
QuoteSmoke flares were used in the 60s and still are. I never saw illuminating flares used even on night jumps, but I heard they were used.
If you drop a flare and it hits the ground, it will start a fire.
I thought military illuminating flares, that illuminate a night battle, were attached to parachutes so they'd have slow descent and light the ground for a while. Plus they're big, right?
Why would you have a hand-thrown flare illuminating the sky?
People say "illuminate the DZ" but I can't imagine that working..
(edit) from http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/luu2.htm
LUU-2 Flare
Air-deployed LUU-2 high-intensity illumination flare are used to illuminate targets. The LUU-2B Flare has a light output rating of 1.8 x 10(6) candlepower and at 1,000 feet altitude illuminates a circle on the ground of 500 meters at 5 lux. The LUU-2 is housed in a pod or canister and is deployed by ejection. The mechanism has a timer on it that deploys the parachute and ignites the flare candle. The flare candle burns magnesium which burns at high temperature emitting an intense bright white light. The consumption of the aluminum cylinder that contains the flare "candle" may add some orange to the light. The LUU-2 flare enhances a pilot's ability to see targets while using Night Vision Goggles. With the introduction of A-10 Warthog Night Vision capability, such flares are not used as frequently as in the past as they provide too much light for the very sensitive goggles. Flares burn at uneven rates and therefore fluctuate in brightness.
The LUU-2 has a burn time of approximately 5 minutes while suspended from a parachute. The pyrotechnic candle consumes the flare housing, reducing flare weight which in turn slows the rate of fall during the last 2 minutes of burn time. At candle burnout an explosive bolt is fired, releasing one parachute support cable which causes the parachute to collapse. While unburned flares falling from high altitude could be dangerous, burned flares are much less dangerous since they are designed to burn up during the fall (even the aluminum casing is burned).
The LUU-2B/B flare is the latest in a series of illuminating flares introduced by Thiokol for nighttime target illumination and rescue missions. Designated as a multi service flare by United States military forces, the LUU-2B/B incorporates improvements and modifications that further enhance its performance and reliability. The LUU-2B/B has been selected by over 30 foreign countries for aircraft-deployed illumination.
377 22
There were some DZs where there wasnt much to ignite on the ground if you dropped a flare. Road flares drop molten sulphur and that stuff can create serious burns if it contacts skin. Flares in freefall sound like a bad idea for this and many other reasons.
Night vision is very important in night RW. Even a too bright altimeter light can compromise it. A flare would blind most jumpers or severely restrict their night vision. I never saw a flare used, just heard about it.
All the night jumps I saw used battery powered lights.
377
Night vision is very important in night RW. Even a too bright altimeter light can compromise it. A flare would blind most jumpers or severely restrict their night vision. I never saw a flare used, just heard about it.
All the night jumps I saw used battery powered lights.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
snowmman 3
This is the pic I thought everyone would have seen (attached)
(also we went thru the vietnam halo, and what they did for illumination. they tried using some glow in the dark paint-on stuff, and i think they had a battery light if i remember?..no flares..I think galen's cook's ideas are BS in the flare arena)
from http://www.parachutehistory.com/skydive/records/night/16night.html
Events in the article take place in 1972.
"The Elsinore Flying Farkle team of the early 70's was a closely-knit group that pushed the envelope of RW."
"Fielding established two rules to enhance the success of night dives.
1) Flashing strobes were forbidden.
2) Large formation attempts should be done as close to a full moon as possible."
"Most of the jumpers on the load had 600 to 700 jumps. They never funneled any of the attempts, but they were concerned about what to do in case they did. Should they reform, stay in the general area or pull immediately? Everyone was concerned about collisions."
"The next record was a 12-way night star. The formation aircraft were a Beech and a Cessna 180. It built smoothly and rapidly. Jenkins had a flash synchronized with his camera. Each time he took a photograph, the formation lit up. Bud Krueger fired a 20-second flare when the star was complete. The group broke off at 4000 feet."
"A few more lessons were learned on this successful 12-way night star. Black or dark jumpsuits did not photograph well at night and were hard for others to see. A new rule of having a jumpsuit at least 50% white was added. The photos were amazing to everyone. Jumpers came in from the jet-black sky to dock. There was a ball of fire in Bud Krueger's hand after lighting the flare."
the web page goes onto to detail the progress to 16-way night star. picture there. no flare in that pic?
(also we went thru the vietnam halo, and what they did for illumination. they tried using some glow in the dark paint-on stuff, and i think they had a battery light if i remember?..no flares..I think galen's cook's ideas are BS in the flare arena)
from http://www.parachutehistory.com/skydive/records/night/16night.html
Events in the article take place in 1972.
"The Elsinore Flying Farkle team of the early 70's was a closely-knit group that pushed the envelope of RW."
"Fielding established two rules to enhance the success of night dives.
1) Flashing strobes were forbidden.
2) Large formation attempts should be done as close to a full moon as possible."
"Most of the jumpers on the load had 600 to 700 jumps. They never funneled any of the attempts, but they were concerned about what to do in case they did. Should they reform, stay in the general area or pull immediately? Everyone was concerned about collisions."
"The next record was a 12-way night star. The formation aircraft were a Beech and a Cessna 180. It built smoothly and rapidly. Jenkins had a flash synchronized with his camera. Each time he took a photograph, the formation lit up. Bud Krueger fired a 20-second flare when the star was complete. The group broke off at 4000 feet."
"A few more lessons were learned on this successful 12-way night star. Black or dark jumpsuits did not photograph well at night and were hard for others to see. A new rule of having a jumpsuit at least 50% white was added. The photos were amazing to everyone. Jumpers came in from the jet-black sky to dock. There was a ball of fire in Bud Krueger's hand after lighting the flare."
the web page goes onto to detail the progress to 16-way night star. picture there. no flare in that pic?
Amazon 7
QuoteThis is the pic I thought everyone would have seen (attached)
(also we went thru the vietnam halo, and what they did for illumination. they tried using some glow in the dark paint-on stuff, and i think they had a battery light if i remember?..no flares..I think galen's cook's ideas are BS in the flare arena)
from http://www.parachutehistory.com/skydive/records/night/16night.html
Events in the article take place in 1972.
"The Elsinore Flying Farkle team of the early 70's was a closely-knit group that pushed the envelope of RW."
"Fielding established two rules to enhance the success of night dives.
1) Flashing strobes were forbidden.
2) Large formation attempts should be done as close to a full moon as possible."
"Most of the jumpers on the load had 600 to 700 jumps. They never funneled any of the attempts, but they were concerned about what to do in case they did. Should they reform, stay in the general area or pull immediately? Everyone was concerned about collisions."
"The next record was a 12-way night star. The formation aircraft were a Beech and a Cessna 180. It built smoothly and rapidly. Jenkins had a flash synchronized with his camera. Each time he took a photograph, the formation lit up. Bud Krueger fired a 20-second flare when the star was complete. The group broke off at 4000 feet."
"A few more lessons were learned on this successful 12-way night star. Black or dark jumpsuits did not photograph well at night and were hard for others to see. A new rule of having a jumpsuit at least 50% white was added. The photos were amazing to everyone. Jumpers came in from the jet-black sky to dock. There was a ball of fire in Bud Krueger's hand after lighting the flare."
the web page goes onto to detail the progress to 16-way night star. picture there. no flare in that pic?
Bright lights of any type on a night jump are a REALLLY bad idea. You do NOT want to destroy your night vision when you have to land your canopy... with a round... its not nearly as bad.. but with a square...eeesh. depth perception is everything for landing.
I had some drunk ASSHOLE hit me with a spotlight when I was on landing approach on a night jump on New Years Eve at Eloy. I was totally blinded and my landing resulted a torn rotator cuff when I crashed
I would REALLLY like to meet the fucknugget with the light for some VERY personal counseling.
I called the FBI today for the first time in a long time. The agent was NOT LARRY CARR. This new agent has not been assigned the Cooper Case yet.
I was told to MAIL my information to the FBI and my request. NO INFORMATION is processed on this case unless it is mailed. THIS may mean the information I shared with CARR by email probably never got into the FBI system. Maybe on his defense it did...but I have had a feeling that it did not and figured he was just using it to further his career or claim he solved the case AFTER I die.
I am going to resend that information and the new information - but it is a LOT of stuff. Maybe I should just take it to the LOCAL office and hand it to them and request a reciept.
What I am going to do is reprint ALL of the emails I sent to CARR and the pictures. I did keep a file on it and hard copied all of it - plus on CD backup.
I hope the last 3 yrs have not been wasted - this last new piece of information was going to require the help of the FBI, because I have in the last few days exhausted all the avenues I have to trace this info.
The other explanation is that this agent has no idea who Cooper is and they have put the case in the dead zone.
377:
The battery in the brief case could have been used to power a light. Perhaps what was in the paper bag was the attaching strobe. It was about the right size.
Help me with this:
Duane had a gadget - I didn't understand - so maybe some of you guys could explain it to me. It was a case big enough for a large battery and it had a part that was like the head of a flash light only it was just the light part
with wires that clamped onto a battery - but all I ever saw was the little case and the head part.
The case was canvas material with a loop on it so without the battery - it was only as big as a baseball (only thing I can think of right now). It had a red lens cover in the case and an orange one.
Was this some kind of signal light or stobe? Post pictures of these things for me - please.
I was told to MAIL my information to the FBI and my request. NO INFORMATION is processed on this case unless it is mailed. THIS may mean the information I shared with CARR by email probably never got into the FBI system. Maybe on his defense it did...but I have had a feeling that it did not and figured he was just using it to further his career or claim he solved the case AFTER I die.
I am going to resend that information and the new information - but it is a LOT of stuff. Maybe I should just take it to the LOCAL office and hand it to them and request a reciept.
What I am going to do is reprint ALL of the emails I sent to CARR and the pictures. I did keep a file on it and hard copied all of it - plus on CD backup.
I hope the last 3 yrs have not been wasted - this last new piece of information was going to require the help of the FBI, because I have in the last few days exhausted all the avenues I have to trace this info.
The other explanation is that this agent has no idea who Cooper is and they have put the case in the dead zone.
377:
The battery in the brief case could have been used to power a light. Perhaps what was in the paper bag was the attaching strobe. It was about the right size.
Help me with this:
Duane had a gadget - I didn't understand - so maybe some of you guys could explain it to me. It was a case big enough for a large battery and it had a part that was like the head of a flash light only it was just the light part
with wires that clamped onto a battery - but all I ever saw was the little case and the head part.
The case was canvas material with a loop on it so without the battery - it was only as big as a baseball (only thing I can think of right now). It had a red lens cover in the case and an orange one.
Was this some kind of signal light or stobe? Post pictures of these things for me - please.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Orange1 0
Bruce, thanks again for some interesting stuff.
377 is right of course pointing out there is "proof" civilians were also searching for DB... I guess we just can't discount that someone might have found him.
I would also be very interested to know if Pete knew about the 727 tests in Asia...
377 is right of course pointing out there is "proof" civilians were also searching for DB... I guess we just can't discount that someone might have found him.
I would also be very interested to know if Pete knew about the 727 tests in Asia...
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
snowmman 3
Jo reported on behalf of the FBI "the information I shared with CARR by email probably never got into the FBI system"
Well that would explain why when I hacked into the FBI system nothing was there, except for a lot of private porn folders, and some pictures of Noelle at a christmas party.
hmm. I mean she was investigating skydivers. You know if you tell her you're a jumper, it's gotta count for something.
I don't know about the gun thing though (SA). Might lead to a bad ending, especially with the husband.
Well that would explain why when I hacked into the FBI system nothing was there, except for a lot of private porn folders, and some pictures of Noelle at a christmas party.
hmm. I mean she was investigating skydivers. You know if you tell her you're a jumper, it's gotta count for something.
I don't know about the gun thing though (SA). Might lead to a bad ending, especially with the husband.
Hey Jerk! Once again you are factually wrong.
Now dont throw a tit! Go suck your Jack Daniels.
I'm wrong a lot. What was wrong about what I said above?
Are you talking about supposed military use of flares or sport jumping use of flares or ???
If you know something relative to the question I posed, just say it? Then people will confirm it if they have info too.
Why dump on me without giving the relevant info? What purpose does that serve?
I don't see sport jumpers throwing flares at 10,000'.
I've seen pictures of N-ways holding flares at night from the '60s. (I'm assuming everyone has seen those)
I suspect nowadays carrying flames at night isn't SOP?
??