DB Cooper

[Amazon 7]

Hello I will be your Evil Jeanne

[hangdiver 1]

I'll toast to that all you evil skydivers...
wait, I think I hear Satan..nope just someone sucking it low and swoopin it in.

is that you Cooper...?


666...

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[377 22]

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One of the few L-1011's still in service in the USA is owned by the Sands Corporation for employees and 'guests'. I can't think of a reason for a casino to haul a large group of employees around that can't be better handled by commercial carriers. So that just leaves the guests and they must be the Mondo-wealthy types

Bet quite a few mile high club qualifications have been made on that Sands TriStar. I hardly ever see L 1011s flying any more. ATA was using them on charters not too long ago.

I used to work for a big avionics company and got quite a few cockpit jumpseat rides in 1011s. On one trip from the middle east to the UK the crew was getting repeated reports from the FAs that pax in thecrear were getting sick from a continuous up and down motion. The Capt said "it's the weather hon, chop reported at all available altitudes, nothing we can do about it."

The FE told me it was really a rigging problem resulting in autopilot pitch hunting, but that they didn't want to hand fly for five hours. Pretty amazing plane systems wise. Triple redundant autopilots with a voting system.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

I think Orbital Sciences uses an L 1011 in California to launch rockets from high altitudes. I am surprised nobody has converted one into a fire tanker like the DC 10 and 747s tankers. L 1011s with some decent engine times and remaining time to C check are dirt cheap. Maybe there is concern about mfr support and spares in the future.

Can you tell I like airplanes?

I flew on TWA 1011s a lot in the 1980s and really liked them. They could get into A foggy Heathrow when other planes had to wait for better visibility.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

Saul Binstock! Quiet a story Farflung and one I have never heard before or if it was told I was sleeping.

Folks we do have another Snowmman in the making with Farflung.

I agree that Snowmman's informative post will be missed, but there is a part of Snow no one will miss. As I have said before it was more than 2 personalities - and I often thought two different individuals! (started to post my theory on that but will let it go). Still he will be missed - whoever he was.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Amazon 7]

Quote

I think Orbital Sciences uses an L 1011 in California to launch rockets from high altitudes. I am surprised nobody has converted one into a fire tanker like the DC 10 and 747s tankers. L 1011s with some decent engine times and remaining time to C check are dirt cheap. Maybe there is concern about mfr support and spares in the future.

Can you tell I like airplanes?

I flew on TWA 1011s a lot in the 1980s and really liked them. They could get into A foggy Heathrow when other planes had to wait for better visibility.

377

My very first airplane trip on a plane was to Europe on a TWA Connie... with the pretty ladies in the pretty green suits. I was 4

[skyjack71 0]

I have just learned there will be a Smoke Jumper Reunion this summer in Redding, California. Can anyone find any dates for this?

Some reservations about this information because the individual did NOT know that Earl Cooley passed away several months ago. What is the closest airport to Redding? I want to go!

If you see an old gray headed lady with her little bun on the back of her head all stooped over her cane, asking all sorts of questions - might be me.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

Here is the smokejumper reunion info Jo.

http://www.google.com/search?q=smoke+jumper+reunion+redding&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

378

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Amazon 7]

Quote

I have just learned there will be a Smoke Jumper Reunion this summer in Redding, California. Can anyone find any dates for this?

Some reservations about this information because the individual did NOT know that Earl Cooley passed away several months ago. What is the closest airport to Redding? I want to go!

If you see an old gray headed lady with her little bun on the back of her head all stooped over her cane, asking all sorts of questions - might be me.

I would think Suckramento would be the closest big airport..and hop a little on from there to Redding itself.

[georger 244]

Quote

Some of the 20 dollar bills found at Tena bar did not match the list of SNs recorded by the FBI:

http://www.pcgs.com/articles/article_view.chtml?artid=5253

377

article date: Feb 2008.

It is today Feb 23, 2010.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Quote

Some of the 20 dollar bills found at Tena bar did not match the list of SNs recorded by the FBI:

http://www.pcgs.com/articles/article_view.chtml?artid=5253

377

article date: Feb 2008.

It is today Feb 23, 2010.

This is in relation to the found money in 1980 - because some of the bills were stuck together. All of the numbers found match the master file numbers on the money delivered to Cooper.

377: If you think I am yanking your chain about what is happening then - you need to keep your eyes and ears tuned to the North West in Early March.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

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If you see an old gray headed lady with her little bun on the back of her head all stooped over her cane, asking all sorts of questions - might be me.

Jo,

Some of those older smoke jumpers might take a liking to a woman cohort who knows about parachutes. You may become the Belle of the Smoke Jumpers Reunion Ball.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Some of the 20 dollar bills found at Tena bar did not match the list of SNs recorded by the FBI:


377

Don't believe I've heard that before... very interesting. If they had been passed into circulation they would not have been picked up as Cooper money even if they did end up somewhere where they would be checked...

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[377 22]

If it's true then it would be surprising that such a small sample of bills would have several unrecorded SNs. Orange can probably run some stats on this issue.

Something is way off here. Did Cooper get more twenties than the FBI thought?

How many unique SNs were recorded? Extrapolating from Tena Bar sample size and number of unrecorded SNs in that small sample, what is likely number of unrecorded twenties that Cooper got in the whole batch?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[1969912 0]

From the link (my bold):

“This process revealed 35 additional full serial numbers that are on the FBI’s 1971 complete list of notes given as ransom, but apparently were not recorded when the notes discovered by Mr. Ingram in 1980 subsequently were inventoried by investigators. We are pleased to provide the FBI with these ‘new’ numbers with the hope that any new evidence may provide useful leads in this case.”

EDIT: So it looks like there was just more money there than what was originally found, but it was all part of the ransom.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[377 22]

OK, I misinterpretted. Thanks for the courteous correction.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Farflung 0]

Fortune smiled upon the crew and passengers of Flight 39 as there were astonishingly no injuries. The aircraft was repaired at George Air Force Base which is located in Victorville where the coupon book was first distributed which created the demand for the air service Binstock was using. The owner of the Hacienda stretched his luck by purchasing another casino and expanding his charter services. Snake eyes for the Hacienda in the form of the second property being a money loser and the government halting the Hacienda charter flights since it was operating as a de facto scheduled airline.

The Convair 240 returned to service and was eventually sold to Japan Airlines where it was ultimately destroyed in some type of mishap. Some aircraft are destined for destruction.

Mrs Binstock was fighting in the court system for her husbands life insurance monies. Apparently there was some desire to argue the virtues of an insurance company paying on policies which are purchased just before a suicide in a commercial aircraft. I guess there are some things which are not self evident.

Truth is infinitely stranger than fiction. What could have been embellished about Saul's story to make it any stranger? He was an operative for the CIA? He worked for Western Airlines repairing pilot's watches? He knew the Convair had a weak spot in the lavatory wall since he was employed by Vultee?

What changed about airline operations as a result of Flight 39? Nothing. One would think the airlines would be required to ask you if you are in possession of dynamite and Lucky Time Coupon Books. Nope. Is your car at your destination airport? Ummm....well....here's the story.... Saul was a psycho on a suicidal mission and didn't even consider the collateral damage his stupid action would generate. He could have taken that dynamite and blown himself to smithereens while acting like he was trying to remove a tree stump. Wife gets her 'dirty green' and innocent lives are spared or not even at risk. Saul never considered this possibility since other people are disposable and simply put on Earth to serve him. He most certainly didn't adopt this viewpoint in the weeks preceding his action.

The Cooper Vane was the product of several skydivers making unauthorized jumps in 727s. It's time for the aviation industry to design and implement - the 'Para-Saul'. There is too much crap going on in the lavatories of these aircraft. This is an obvious weak point in airline operations and the lavatory should be made as a modular unit with autonomous systems. Once the door is closed a timer will begin a count-down which would allow ample time for the winner of a prune eating contest to finish. Once this time is exceeded, the capsule will depressurize from the rotation of four cam-locks securing the lavatory in the fuselage. The unitized facilities would begin a gravity separation from the airframe where a secondary timer and barometric sensor would be activated by a micro switch which opens once the commode is in free fall.

At this point the Para-Saul would have a set of spring deployed, stabilization fins extended while awaiting the canopy to deploy which activates the tracking beacon. The police recover the Para-Saul pod with the offending individual securely locked inside. I would patent this, but feel is serves too great a good for society and should enter public domain.

In addition to the timer, a button would be wired to each seat for Strange Acting Undesirable Losers in the aircraft. If someone is acting suspicious, upon entry into the lavatory another passenger can push their SAUL button which jettisons the potty pod without the timed delay. The impact of the SAUL button would empower people to act upon suspicions and eliminate the ridiculous behaviors people display when seated next to me in airliners.

[377 22]

farflung wrote:

Quote

It's time for the aviation industry to design and implement - the 'Para-Saul'. There is too much crap going on in the lavatories of these aircraft. This is an obvious weak point in airline operations and the lavatory should be made as a modular unit with autonomous systems. Once the door is closed a timer will begin a count-down which would allow ample time for the winner of a prune eating contest to finish. Once this time is exceeded, the capsule will depressurize from the rotation of four cam-locks securing the lavatory in the fuselage. The unitized facilities would begin a gravity separation from the airframe where a secondary timer and barometric sensor would be activated by a micro switch which opens once the commode is in free fall.

At this point the Para-Saul would have a set of spring deployed, stabilization fins extended while awaiting the canopy to deploy which activates the tracking beacon. The police recover the Para-Saul pod with the offending individual securely locked inside

Farflung,

Given that a lot of Mile High qualifications are done in airliner lavs, shouldnt you have some doppler heart rate sensor looking for two distinct accelerating heartbeats or accelerometers looking for characteristic cyclic motion or some way to avoid blasting an amourous couple into a very embarrassing tandem jump?

Safety and Calvinism sometimes intersect, but not always.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 244]

Quote

From the link (my bold):

“This process revealed 35 additional full serial numbers that are on the FBI’s 1971 complete list of notes given as ransom, but apparently were not recorded when the notes discovered by Mr. Ingram in 1980 subsequently were inventoried by investigators. We are pleased to provide the FBI with these ‘new’ numbers with the hope that any new evidence may provide useful leads in this case.”

EDIT: So it looks like there was just more money there than what was originally found, but it was all part of the ransom.

- has been mentioned and covered many times here. I guess some of us dont get read here.
It doesnt exist until 377, Snow, and you say it
exists.

[377 22]

I read all your posts Georger. I cant say I remember them all but I do read them. I just misunderstood what was being said about the SNs and had forgotten the old dialog about the issue. It is that simpe. Nobody was being ignored.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

Quote

Snake eyes for the Hacienda in the form of the second property being a money loser and the government halting the Hacienda charter flights since it was operating as a de facto scheduled airline.

That mean old FAA always kills the good deals. There used to be a Beech 18 that flew to the Taft DZ from Van Nuys on weekends long long ago. You could pay to ride there, jump in and fly back on Sunday. Two takeoffs, one landing in the plane. It was dirt cheap and saved a lot of driving. The FAA reportedly shut it down as an unlicensed passenger operation.
Killjoys.

It is amazing that the Convair stayed intact with no pax injuries when that selfish jerk blew up himself and the lav. They built em TOUGH back then, supposedly because they didnt have computer programs that would tell them the absolute minimum structure needed to avoid metal fatigue in a pressurized hull. They had to err on the safe side.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

Guess they will have a memorial for Cooley at the Smoke Jumpers Reunion since it is the 1st one since his death.

Guess where the main 100 rooms have been blocked - The Red Lion Inn - in Redding. HOW appropriate - remember that Duane threw that bag in the river behind the RED LION in Vancouver. I don't know if it is still a Red Lion but it was in 1979.

Yes, I am interested enough to go to their site and check it out - thinking about attending if I can.
I would have to go ahead and pay the upfronts now and reserve a room and just HOPE that I would be able to fly at that time and that it is a good time. If now - oh, well.

Most of the men will be the younger jumpers because the old ones from the 40's are all gone - but, maybe just maybe there might be someone there who was a smoke jumper in the late 40's. Wish there was some way to find out.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

If he washed down the Columbia and out to sea the crabs would pick his bones clean, but the gear might remain reasonably intact.

Drag boats (bottom trawlers) drag up all sorts of stuff. See below.


http://www.bandonwesternworld.com/articles/2010/02/18/news/doc4b7c76d6d2460772945759.txt


377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Farflung 0]

377,

After more than 37 years in salt water the parachute for the Liberty Bell was very much intact.

A military backpack, reserve and canvas bag would not offer much buoyancy and must weigh close to 60 pounds.

Reading the transcripts makes for quite the mental picture. First Cooper is described as donning the chute like he has done it before. Then he is lashing the money to his body or harness or combination.

I remember how those backpacks went down to your belt line. Wouldn't it suck to give that money bag a few wraps around you body with shroud line and unintentionally (obviously) tie the container shut? You could still pull the D-ring but the chute would be tied into the backpack. Then pulling the inert reserve. Man, what a bummer.

Amazon made an excellent characterization about the aircrew military canopies. They were designed to make you 'not die'. Hitting the ground with a slight wind (10 knots) made me wonder if the landing could have been softer without the chute at all.

There were two more considerations regarding the aircrew equipment. Exiting the aircraft and being conscious or uninjured is a large assumption. Paratroopers jump to begin the fight, Aircrew jump to end the fight; diametrically opposed functions. The four line modification was an option, assuming you were awake to utilize the feature or the ejection process didn't break an arm.

Second was your head. As in situational awareness. Paratroopers get up knowing they will jump, suit up knowing they will jump, get into the plane to jump then jump, ditch the gear and start fighting.

Aircrew have no such thoughts....ever. Triple redundant systems failing, ineffective fire suppression, enemy actions and running out of airspeed, altitude and ideas forces one to push the Ah SH*T Button then consider what to do next. Let's see....umm...flaps 10...intercepting glide path....no...something is missing, I just can't put my finger on it...the plane.

Now they get to operate some equipment for the first time like their lives depended on it (taste the irony?).

Comparing aircrew parachutes to paratroopers is like comparing Raquel Welch to RuPaul. From a distance there appears to be more similarities. The closer one gets to the subject the more obvious the differences become and you may want to be a little selective depending upon planned use and personal experience.

[377 22]

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Wouldn't it suck to give that money bag a few wraps around you body with shroud line and unintentionally (obviously) tie the container shut?

That sure would suck and isn't out of the question. One of the world's very best skydivers (who was a rigger) accidently stitched his rig shut and died jumping it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_de_Gayardon

It is pretty easy to interfere with an opening when you start tieing stuff to a rig. Even if he didn't doom the opening by things he did in the cabin, the wild tumble and windstream on exit could take some loose line and wrap it on something like a pack opening band hook.

On the DC 9 WFFC jet jumps all sorts of things that normally stayed on jumpers were loosened or lost, like goggles, a fanny pack, etc.

There is quite a blast on exit when you are going 150 mph or better. The energy goes up as the square of velocity, it isnt linear.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.