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[edit]: One part of the story that intrigues me
is the splitting off into two pieces. I have played
with flares too as a kid. I have seen a lot of flares
burning. I have never seen a flare split apart into
two burning pieces. Janet's account sounds like
two flares were dropped - appeared as one in the
beginning then separated as the flares drifted apart.
That intrigues me because it sounds like a willful
act on somebody's part. Would a trained jumper
drop two flares for a specific reason, as a part of
prior experience-training vs. just one flare?



Boy, lots of us (including me) were flare pyros as kids. I lived near a railroad switchyard and there were "fusee" labeled flares laying all over the place. We did all sorts of insane things with them including melting lead fishing weights and casting them into molds we made out of sand.

I too never saw a road flare break into two burning pieces. If Janet's account is accurate it may have been the result of simultaneous burning of a couple of attached flares (eg taped together) and then the attachment tape burned and they separated during descent.

Think of what a road flare looks like even a few hundred feet way let alone several thousand feet away. It is a bright red POINT SOURCE of light, no flames, not big at all. It wouldnt look much different than an extra bright red navigation light on a plane.
It wouldnt look like a flaming comet or anything close. No flames, no glowing trail, just a bright red dot, in my opinion.

If a dropped road flare illuminated nearby clouds then perhaps it could give the appearance of a flaming object, but I doubt it. I have seen white search and rescue flares dropped by military HC 130 planes and watched them descend under parachute thorugh broken overcast layers. They are way bigger and brighter than road flares and still all you see is a point source of light, not flames.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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attached flares (eg taped together) and then the attachment tape burned and they separated during descent.
377



that could be ... just as they were in the briefcase.

I think its important Janet establish herself as
a witness independent of anyone having a candidate. This supposed witness account needs
to stand on its own ...

thoughts?

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attached flares (eg taped together) and then the attachment tape burned and they separated during descent.
377



that could be ... just as they were in the briefcase.

I think its important Janet establish herself as
a witness independent of anyone having a candidate. This supposed witness account needs
to stand on its own ...

thoughts?



Question:

Is this the same story Cook told on Sluggo's site? If it is then it has changed considerably. In the post I am referring to there was no mention of the spouse being deceased - and 'all the rest of the details' that are now being told. How many people are claiming the FBI told them to "Shut the F-up"? In this other accounting supposedly they came to their house to tell them this.

I have not gone back to read the other accounting - just calling it off the top of my head - so I am sure I made some errors.

I do remember the other accounting was also something from Tosaw's records that Cook was provided with.

Questionable and requires some answers from your truely - Galen Cook and the witness. This is exactly why I have not let anyone write "The Jo Weber / Cooper Accounting"....what ends up coming out is not what was told or said or claimed. Too many liberaties are taken by the writers.

P.S. Can anyone pin point on a map where this siting was supposed to have occurred? Just curious how this siting fits into the LZ proposed by the FBI. I think the FBI's proposed LZ was in essence correct - except more South. In the fury of finding Cooper they didn"t extend the search far enough fast enough.

Does anyone have a list of all the claimed sitings - given back in 1971? Overlay those sitings with the Easterly and Westerly most possible lines.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Does anyone have a list of all the claimed sitings - given back in 1971? Overlay those sitings with the Easterly and Westerly most possible lines.



1.


SafecrackingPLF


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Mar 31, 2008, 7:10 AM

Post #727 of 17628 (5129 views)
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Registered: Nov 27, 2007
Posts: 423

Re: [speedy] If Cooper Lived... [In reply to] Can't Post

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Speedy,

Interesting thought.

I will be interested to read the Hancock statement to see if Cooper was harnessing up BEFORE speaking to Rataczak... that would play directly into that idea.

Well, I was going to post on this anyway, but someone new already touched on it.

There are witnesses who swear the plane was on a different flight path that night. Witnesses meaning people who either heard or saw the plane in a totally different location.

I know of one witness, someone I've spoken to personally, who was reading a book that night between 8-8:30 and heard an enormous roar from a slow moving jet go over her house.

What made it so odd was that this person lived in Cougar at the time and it's extremely quiet out there. Cougar meaning west side of Yale Lake!

If I go off of her testimony, it would mean the plane was 13.5 miles off course to the East.

Apparently this witness knows of another family that lived close by who corroborated hearing the same thing. Incidentally, some Portland FBI agents interviewed this woman and her husband a few days later because the husband witnessed a man dressed in a business suit heading west on Lewis River Road, but the location of the spotting was literally on the north side of Yale Lake... implying that he was coming from the east!

This husband claimed to think it was odd clothing for the location (this is way up in the mountains) and was expecting to see a broken down car, which he never saw. The husband was working construction on the east side of Swift Resevoir.

As posted already, in Friday's Columbian, Dennis Levanen was quoted as saying the plane was in the wrong location as well. He places the plane in Heisson, 7 miles east of point F on the Jan 72 landing zone map.

If you actually thought the parachute was found in Amboy, then you could trace a line between Cougar, Amboy and Heisson and have them all line up. The problem is, this jet would be coming from Mt. St. Helens, not MALAY.

Further, it should be noted, there were several witnesses in Ariel who vividly remember the roar of the jet flying over their town Thanksgiving Eve.

Therefore, we have witnesses who swear the jet was East and witnesses who swear the jet was right where McChord AFB

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Does anyone have a list of all the claimed sitings - given back in 1971? Overlay those sitings with the Easterly and Westerly most possible lines.



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Sluggo_Monster

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Mar 31, 2008, 7:15 AM

Post #728 of 17628 (5123 views)
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Registered: Jan 24, 2008
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Re: [SafecrackingPLF] If Cooper Lived... [In reply to] Can't Post

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All,

I received some information from a quasi-anonymous source. I tried to verify whether it was the truth or just someone with time on their hands and a fertile imagination, but I was unable to do so. Requests for a source, so I could verify the authenticity of the information, have gone un-answered so I’m going to post this, with the caveat as just stated.

I have uploaded two images the first (Truck-and-Tractor-5583-ft-ANN-RED.jpg) is a Google Earth Image (taken 05/07-2007) at an apparent altitude of 5583 feet. It shows the approximate parachute location and a region of interest labeled “Truck and Tractor”.

The other image (Truck and Tractor-Close.jpg) is at an apparent altitude of 1080 feet.

The quasi-anonymous source claims the truck is parked over the location of the parachute find.

I sat on this for one day, waiting for a response from the sender, so, now I’m posting. It’s yours, for what it’s worth.

Once again, this is not my work, I don’t do rumors, myths, and conjecture. Well, maybe conjecture.

Sluggo_Monster

Attachments: Truck-and-Tractor-5583-ft-ANN-RED.jpg (122 KB)
Truck-and-Tractor-Close.jpg (123 KB)

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georger,

The post (Post #728), you just referenced, was about the Amboy chute find in the Spring of 2008.

What does this have to do with the question (also referenced) from skyjack71 about plane sightings in 1971.

Help me… I’m lost and I can’t find my way!



Key words are: /
I received some information from a quasi-anonymous source. I tried to verify whether it was the truth or just someone with time on their hands and a fertile imagination, but I was unable to do so. Requests for a source, so I could verify the authenticity of the information, have gone un-answered so I’m going to post this, with the caveat as just stated. /

It just illustrates how difficult it is to get hard
information even on the most mundane of subjects
in this case. I think it has infected the investigation
from the start - the consequences of which seems to be a tunnel vision and sometimes a pandemic paranoia for anyone saying anything
'on the record' which only fuels further suspicion
and distrust . . . leading to everyone chewing on everyone.

The discovery of the money at Tina Bar resulted in
a flurry of activity involving all kinds of people not just at Portland-Vancouver but in other areas of Washington-Oregon, activity which continued for years (finally involving people like Tosaw and Jerry Thomas, for example).

Here at DZ we have been relying on a small core of people who it turns out are expressing a small
core of facts and opinion compared to the larger population which was actually involved in the money
find and subsequent events. I have been sampling this larger population with some interesting results.
Some of these people go way-back before the 1980
money find and have an interesting perspective based on their very long experience with the Columbia, Washougal, Lewis, weather, hydrology,
potential sightings and rumored sights, etc.

I may have more to share later if things go well.
[Jerry also.]

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Key words are:
I received some information from a quasi-anonymous source. I tried to verify whether it was the truth or just someone with time on their hands and a fertile imagination, but I was unable to do so. Requests for a source, so I could verify the authenticity of the information, have gone un-answered so I’m going to post this, with the caveat as just stated.

It just illustrates how difficult it is to get hard information even on the most mundane of subjects
in this case. I think it has infected the investigation from the start - the consequences of which seems to be a tunnel vision and sometimes a pandemic paranoia for anyone saying anything 'on the record' which only fuels further suspicion
and distrust . . . leading to everyone chewing on everyone.




:)
I understand what you just said and it is true. I also know that things are happening at Tina's Bar (Tena's Bar). Really hope Jerry in not involved in this as he is a 'hoax' maker, such as his attacks against me ---which are uncalled for in genuine research. When narrow minds cannot try to objectively view what is known and what is found - it is just "money" down the river. When it is someone elses money the "truthslayers" (no that is NOT misspelled) muddy the truths.


Yes, 377 - I am speaking in riddles as I am sure Georger will be telling all about what is found soon. Remember whatever the findings are - they will be co-mingled with the objective of the study.

Also note that I proposed several yrs ago that Tina Mucklow is not where the FBI and others would have you believe she is. The trail that myself and others have followed are only what the authorities want us to find regarding Tina. The turmoil Cooper created destroyed her marriage (my opinion) and when she attempted to go OUT on her own - it had to be "under the table". An address that was available in 1979 may or may not have been the actual residence of Tina and by 1980 it was obvious she needed more protection from the public and "others".

An "incident" occurring in 1979 was treated as just that - an incident. When the money surfaced in 1980 - any security Tina may have been able to establish for herself vanished. What happened to her after this?

We were all led to believe she became a nun and perhaps she did for a period of time, but life has a way of moving on. Another choice was made...to protect her and provide her with the life "Cooper stole from her". The choice of who knew and who did not was hers to make...and she did make those choices.

Communications were made regarding those who tried to contact her - only 2 (I know of) actually got past the "security gate" and made contact with her.
Those who care about her did not repeatedly go knocking on a door that had a "false" front and she is the one who chose who would be admitted. It was an elaborate front and it has worked up until now - because of the constant barrages of eager journalist and writers this "false" front has been fractured.

Let her have her life - she remembers little of the incident. It is just a bad nightmare she has tried to forget and had been successful in doing, until all the flurry of enquiries in the past few yrs. My coming forward with what Duane told me and what I knew was the trigger that renewed the interest in Cooper - any hardship this has caused her is my only regret. She is well and happy and shielded by those who love her - leave her be.

Living a life with no past is not an easy thing to do...you are forever afraid of divulging yourself to others and the harm it could cause.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Yes, 377 - I am speaking in riddles as I am sure Georger will be telling all about what is found soon. Remember whatever the finding are - they will be co-mingled with the objective of the study.



I will? ;)

Sluggo must be losing it about now, wondering...
so for his sake alone let me say, Jo, you are batting
at snowballs in June.

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Yes, 377 - I am speaking in riddles as I am sure Georger will be telling all about what is found soon. Remember whatever the finding are - they will be co-mingled with the objective of the study.



I will? ;)

Sluggo must be losing it about now, wondering...
so for his sake alone let me say, Jo, you are batting
at snowballs in June.

Georger - It is not June, yet and you KNOW exactly what I am talking about!

Deleted attached photo.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Bruce. I realy can't understand the problem when it comes to people claiming to be Cooper or knowing who he was. Just get some of there DNA and finger prints.a picture and take it to the FBI and let them test it like they have everyone else.All claims to date have been proven to be those of want a bee's.Then you won't have to waist your time on those who make false claims.Jerry

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Riddles, hints, insinuations but nothing us outsiders can understand.

Give us a break. What is happening regarding Tena Bar?

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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You could PM me Jerry. I do keep things confidential, Sluggo and others can vouch for me on that.

I truly have no clue about what is going on behind the scenes in the case regarding Tena Bar. I dont like being in the dark. Shine a light Jerry!

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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Would be glad to say. However one member of this forum loves to write fictional stories.The only way I can keep some info from becoming a part of a new story is keep it under the table untill it is made public info.Jerry



Jerry - you are the one with the fiction and fantasy. Even Himmelsbach doesn't want to hear from you. So please leave your snide remarks about others out...of the forum.

I am more involve than you know......and Galen will tell you this ---- Jo does keep secrets and for yrs now she has NOT told all she knows until recently. There were certain individuals who I shared specific information with and it was in a written form for verification purposes and on tapes - information Galen was unaware of. Information I have not told this forum.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Regarding Tina's Bar, I know that Galen was there a few days ago saying that he was back at work with his soil scientists and hydrologists.

Other than that, I haven't a clue what is going on, and I sure don't understand the current mystery dust-up.

Also, as for Burnworth - or any suspect for that matter - I think it is important to explore all details of the case, including who the FBI investigated and how they did it. Yes, it would be simple, I suppose, to send off a fingerprint to the feds and ask for confirmation, but what does that achieve? Merely scratching another name off a list? Rather, I think it is important to examine FBI behavior and dynamics, as well as the cultural effluvia of suspects, confessees, witnesses and wannabees. There are important lessons to be learned in their study, in my judgment.

The trick, I think, is not to become distracted, side-lined or overwhelmed.

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Bruce philosophisized:
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The trick, I think, is not to become distracted, side-lined or overwhelmed.



Just when I thought I might actually accomplish the above, along came the Internet which rendered the goal impossible.

It was obviously conceived in Hell not at SRI, DARPA or PARC.

What say ye Sluggo?

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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Jo. Very Funny. Posting more fiction. Galen the attorney. From Spokanne has some awfull strange therioes. Another man just looking to make money off this case.Now as for Ralph, He and his wife are like surrogate parents to Shelly and I. and I am positive that you should be aware of this fact. Everyone else is ,and your comment was made without Merrit. Yes I am aware that you talked to him today. I just got off the phone with him 10 minutes ago. We discussed a few things and Shelly and I will be spending time with Him and his wife this weekend. Kinda strange for some one who wants nothing to do with me. You see there is one problem Ralph, has allways told everyone how close he and I are. Maybe if you would like, ask those who has talked to him. Why don't you start with Geof Gray or Tom Kaye, or Geoger, or Larry Carr or Brian Ingraham or Susan Gilmore from the Seattle Times or Edward Walsh from the Oregonian or the Fazio brothers. Shall I go on? I think I made my point.SO take a sugestion, drop this obsession on Cooper and go on with the rest of your life and let those that would realy like to see this case solved before Ralph passes away do what we can. If you here of someone who claims to be Cooper or has info that might lead to solving this case have them send DNA ,finger prints or pictures to the FBI so it can be tested and ruled out along with all the others they have excluded already. Jerry

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Jo does keep secrets and for yrs now she has NOT told all she knows until recently. There were certain individuals who I shared specific information with and it was in a written form for verification purposes and on tapes - information Galen was unaware of. Information I have not told this forum.



To what end? If you're interested in solving the case, then why would you hold anything back?

What purpose could that possibly serve?
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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Bruce. The later of your comment makes for good book writing material and confuses others on the isue's of this case. For instance do you have any Idea how many people actually believed that there was 6000 dollars found and that Brians dad kept $200 dollars of it to pay a fine that he had. This was published in one of the books written by a guy that claimed Cooper was a realestate salesman in Arizona.Some one actually started a rumor that a famous artist that lived on skamania mines road was actually Cooper back in the 90's Do you see my point.Maybe someone that reads this stuff may actually have good info and get thrown off because someone decided that confussing the facts of the case would make a good book.Remember some people can't read that well and will only read one book and believe the case is solved. Never knowing the truth.Jerry

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Jo does keep secrets and for yrs now she has NOT told all she knows until recently. There were certain individuals who I shared specific information with and it was in a written form for verification purposes and on tapes - information Galen was unaware of. Information I have not told this forum.



To what end? If you're interested in solving the case, then why would you hold anything back?

What purpose could that possibly serve?



What purpose could they serve?
To sift out those who know and they who pretent to know. Those who would use certain information that might damage others. Things I kept quiet on has been things there was NO need for the public to know - things from my own research and those who have helped me...but, oddly enough 3 individuals came up with some of the same research connections - that was NOT a co-incidence. None of us knew about the others, but each of us will be able to document when we found this specific information.

There is a fourth also -and this man's story seems to cross with Duane - but no proof of this - other than same background and same acquaintances. Cook nor Bruce were aware of this one person who has for yrs done extensive research regarding his subject which he has guarded and DOCUMENTED in a way not available to peons like Gray, Cook, Bruce and Myself.

Two well known individuals have secretly collected information and compiled it for yrs. Both of the names are well known by everyone, but not inconnection to Cooper. One is a very very famous writer / investigator and the other is a retired media individual from the Cooper era.
Neither of these individual have ever posted ONE word in this forum.

Many of my communications with those involved in the past with the history of Cooper have NEVER been talked about by me in a public arena...nor with the FBI. I have not been able to travel nor could I afford some of the other types of investigations done by other individuals, but I have documented what I have that could not be made public...in such a manner they are copied and dated. No way they could be constructed for the purpose of falsification (like Jerry constantly calling me a liar and a fiction writer or creating a fantasy).

As for the FBI - most if not all ceased those communications, because they ended up in file 13 - the waste basket of Agent Carr and past agents. The system is too fragmented and too loosely connected - too many agents and too much information just LOST over the yrs...and I have talked to agents in the last 14 yrs who did NOT know who D.B. Cooper was and didn't understand what I was talking about...even in Seattle. Now those are the one's that got my attention...that is when you realize this crime WILL not be solved by the FBI.

I am curious about what results they obtained with the research that was done on Tena's bar and other areas - and we may not know until the book comes out.
I predict Cook's book will have a TWIST...after all what good is another book on Cooper if it doesn't prove WHO Cooper really was.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Bruce. The later of your comment makes for good book writing material and confuses others on the isue's of this case. For instance do you have any Idea how many people actually believed that there was 6000 dollars found and that Brians dad kept $200 dollars of it to pay a fine that he had. This was published in one of the books written by a guy that claimed Cooper was a realestate salesman in Arizona.Some one actually started a rumor that a famous artist that lived on skamania mines road was actually Cooper back in the 90's Do you see my point.Maybe someone that reads this stuff may actually have good info and get thrown off because someone decided that confussing the facts of the case would make a good book.Remember some people can't read that well and will only read one book and believe the case is solved. Never knowing the truth.Jerry




Some people cannot read, write or spell or compose a literate sentence...therefore how can that be "ConFUSSING".

The correct spelling is C-O-N-F-U-S-I-N-G. There are 2 spaces after a period. "isue's " is spelled ISSUES and it has no possessive apostrophe.

Many of us make grammatical and punctuation mistakes, but we don't go around making false accusations about other posters.
You are an excellent example of those who start rumors and cause actual suspects to be ignored. You have done everything in your power to discredit me since 2001 when I refused to communicate with you after you "lied" to me. Then you found the forum and again proceeded to attack me...yet I have the written documentations
regarding what I wrote to Himmelsbach which is the same things I tried to tell you.

I also have written documentations (Quade received quotations from a copy of the email sent to me by Perry) regarding the trip to WA in 2001...this particular E-mail proved you are the one who lied and not me.

I also have a copy of the letter I mailed to Himmelsbach with a map of the area I was describing which is exactly how I described it to you. I reminded you over and over that I didn't know the names of the places and all I could do was describe them. I sent you the same drawing I sent Himmelsbach. I did not have a map of the area - I was drawing that map from my memory of the trip - yet you said there were no such places and you are the one who insisted on the names and the places Duane took me. I was able to find these places when I went to WA, despite your flagrant insistence that no such places existed.

Also there is an email to Perry regarding the Tavern we went to and the Tavern you insisted was torn down before I was there in May of 2001. Sorry, you are the one who is mistaken or as you put it writing fiction that caused individual's to discount truths that were told.

You have gone down publically in this forum calling me names and discrediting me - these items will be provided to anyone who publically quotes you on these inaccuracies and will receive photo copies of the items. Names of places used in a documentary were provided by you before I had a map of the area...and all I knew was what I had seen. I did everything I could to get that corrected, but you had done what you set out to do.

You knew exactly the area I was describing and you were all over it, all the while claiming I was talking about another area....what was your purpose?

You are an excellent example of the senario you stated with this quotation "someone that reads this stuff may actually have good info and get thrown off because someone decided that confussing the facts of the case would make a good book".

That is a quoted from your own post! You claim to be such a Christian - but, you are as phony as a 3 dollar bill.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Some people cannot read, write or spell or compose a literate sentence...therefore how can that be "ConFUSSING".

The correct spelling is C-O-N-F-U-S-I-N-G. There are 2 spaces after a period. "isue's " is spelled ISSUES and it has no possessive apostrophe.

Many of us make grammatical and punctuation mistakes, but we don't go around making false accusations about other posters.
You are an excellent example of those who start rumors and cause actual suspects to be ignored. You have done everything in your power to discredit me since 2001 when I refused to communicate with you after you "lied" to me. Then you found the forum and again proceeded to attack me...yet I have the written documentations
regarding what I wrote to Himmelsbach which is the same things I tried to tell you.

I also have written documentations (Quade received quotations from a copy of the email sent to me by Perry) regarding the trip to WA in 2001...this particular E-mail proved you are the one who lied and not me.

I also have a copy of the letter I mailed to Himmelsbach with a map of the area I was describing which is exactly how I described it to you. I reminded you over and over that I didn't know the names of the places and all I could do was describe them. I sent you the same drawing I sent Himmelsbach. I did not have a map of the area - I was drawing that map from my memory of the trip - yet you said there were no such places and you are the one who insisted on the names and the places Duane took me. I was able to find these places when I went to WA, despite your flagrant insistence that no such places existed.

Also there is an email to Perry regarding the Tavern we went to and the Tavern you insisted was torn down before I was there in May of 2001. Sorry, you are the one who is mistaken or as you put it writing fiction that caused individual's to discount truths that were told.

You have gone down publically in this forum calling me names and discrediting me - these items will be provided to anyone who publically quotes you on these inaccuracies and will receive photo copies of the items. Names of places used in a documentary were provided by you before I had a map of the area...and all I knew was what I had seen. I did everything I could to get that corrected, but you had done what you set out to do.

You knew exactly the area I was describing and you were all over it, all the while claiming I was talking about another area....what was your purpose?

You are an excellent example of the senario you stated with this quotation "someone that reads this stuff may actually have good info and get thrown off because someone decided that confussing the facts of the case would make a good book".

That is a quoted from your own post! You claim to be such a Christian - but, you are as phony as a 3 dollar bill.



So the above is your Sacrament?

Your words are like lightning, out of the anus
of a squirrel.

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