georger 244 #17651 May 27, 2010 QuoteYou could PM me Jerry. I do keep things confidential, Sluggo and others can vouch for me on that. I truly have no clue about what is going on behind the scenes in the case regarding Tena Bar. I dont like being in the dark. Shine a light Jerry! 377 Jerry Thomas did not begin this work. I began this work, with others, months ago. If you've got any questions address them to me. Jerry is a recent addition because we felt his experience was needed and valuable. In case you forgot, Jerry has been working the Cooper case in Washington since approximately 1985-88. I do not approve or condone this ongoing debate between Mr. Thomas and Jo Weber. I see this as pointless-in-the-extreme and I have voiced this to Jerry many many times. From my vantage point, I think this debate should never have started in the first place, and I doubt it will ever be settled to Jo Weber's satisfaction. I can do nothing about that any more than I can stop BP's broken oil well. Everyone is departing Washington on Friday for the holiday so there will be a propracted lull which I am personally looking forward to - Have a good holiday. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sluggo_Monster 0 #17652 May 27, 2010 377 said:QuoteIt was obviously conceived in Hell not at SRI, DARPA or PARC. Uhh... I believe DARPA and probably PARC*, but SRI was too busy with goofy-guys staring at goats! * Don't forget Al Gore who probably is Satan (that is, unless Janet Reno is Satan, which would make Gore a JAFMI (Just Another F%$king Minor Imp). Come to think of it... I think Janet Reno is/was Michael Jackson. I never saw them together... that's how I figured out that Clark Kent was Superman! georger said:Quote do not approve or condone this ongoing debate between Mr. Thomas and Jo Weber. I see this as pointless-in-the-extreme... Bravo georger! Now we need to convince them that others just don't care how they feel about each other. Sluggo Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #17653 May 27, 2010 Quote377 said:QuoteIt was obviously conceived in Hell not at SRI, DARPA or PARC. Uhh... I believe DARPA and probably PARC*, but SRI was too busy with goofy-guys staring at goats! * Don't forget Al Gore who probably is Satan (that is, unless Janet Reno is Satan, which would make Gore a JAFMI (Just Another F%$king Minor Imp). Come to think of it... I think Janet Reno is/was Michael Jackson. I never saw them together... that's how I figured out that Clark Kent was Superman! georger said:Quote do not approve or condone this ongoing debate between Mr. Thomas and Jo Weber. I see this as pointless-in-the-extreme... Bravo georger! Now we need to convince them that others just don't care how they feel about each other. Sluggo Have a good holiday. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 22 #17654 May 27, 2010 QuoteJerry Thomas did not begin this work. I began this work, with others, months ago. If you've got any questions address them to me. OK Georger, what's going on at Tena Bar? Did the money arrive by natural water transport from another location? Was it deliberately buried there? Or? I am literally in the dark. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #17655 May 28, 2010 Quote Jerry Thomas did not begin this work. I began this work, with others, months ago. If you've got any questions address them to me. Jerry is a recent addition because we felt his experience was needed and valuable. In case you forgot, Jerry has been working the Cooper case in Washington since approximately 1985-88. I do not approve or condone this ongoing debate between Mr. Thomas and Jo Weber. I see this as pointless-in-the-extreme and I have voicedthis to Jerry many many times. ] Georger - as long as Jerry posts about Cooper, I do NOT have a problem with that. He seems to have a problem posting without slandering me and calling me a liar, fiction and fantasty writer. Why doesn't he just accept that I have the right to contribute to solutions and to tell the story as I know it. I do NOT make a NEGATIVE post regarding Jerry unless he attacks my credibitability regarding things he knows I can prove. Maybe he didn't realize I have a paper and disk trail...on everything since 2000 (ever important email and research done) plus copies of all written material received or sent prior to 2000 (my pre-computer days). I also have notes on every phone conversation I received or made (including the bills). There is no excuse for his actions and that is what you should consider anal. I have done all I can to be polite to him and to ignore him, but I finally had to defend myself...and say things I had promised myself I would not. Now - back to Cooper: I knew tests were on going regarding the Columbia, but I was under the impression this was a study being done for Galen Cook. I am confused about who paid for and executed the tests that have been done. What qualifications did those conducting the tests have? What kind of tests have been done? What was the purpose of the tests? And the final question - What were the results or are those still being studied? At least give the forum a hint at what was being attempted.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BruceSmith 3 #17656 May 28, 2010 QuoteBruce. The later of your comment makes for good book writing material and confuses others on the isue's of this case. For instance do you have any Idea how many people actually believed that there was 6000 dollars found and that Brians dad kept $200 dollars of it to pay a fine that he had. This was published in one of the books written by a guy that claimed Cooper was a realestate salesman in Arizona.Some one actually started a rumor that a famous artist that lived on skamania mines road was actually Cooper back in the 90's Do you see my point.Maybe someone that reads this stuff may actually have good info and get thrown off because someone decided that confussing the facts of the case would make a good book.Remember some people can't read that well and will only read one book and believe the case is solved. Never knowing the truth.Jerry Quote Sigh, yes, Jerry, there is truth in what you are saying. I assure you, though, my goal as a journalist is to cast some illumination upon this case, and not add to the shimmer of the shadows. I say trust good hearts, strong coffee and a steady hand. Along these lines, I had a brief conversation with Lt. Ray Luney of the San Mateo County Sheriff's Department today, and he told me a packet of court documents is on its way to me. He confirmed that Burnworth had been arrested, but "not for anything having to do with airplanes." The arrest was for a contempt of court citation, and I presume it has to do with taking his kids out of the country. When I get the details, I'll post a comprehensive view of what happened with Donny B. Although this appears to be a dead-end, I don't regret a moment spent on the Burnworth angle. I have a better understanding of the moth-to-flame syndrome, and also I have a broader feel for the actual investigation of the 1971-1972 era. Remember, Ralph and Larry, and several other federal agents, choose not to talk with me, so I have to look at the case from a different perspective than you and many others. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #17657 May 29, 2010 Georger stated: "I do not approve or condone this ongoing debate between Mr. Thomas and Jo Weber. I see this as pointless-in-the-extreme" Sluggo stated: "Bravo georger! Now we need to convince them that others just don't care how they feel about each other." This thread is NOT about how we feel about each other and it is NOT about condoning abuse. I do NOT debate him - I defend myself. One can agree to disagree WITHOUT - calling the other a liar and some of the substitutes he uses. I do not come into the forum and accuse others of lieing and making up stories. I disagree with others and I make that known - but, I do not go around trying to discredit them or making fun of them and publicly ridiculing them. Most come here to discuss the Cooper pro and cons - looking for answers. Others who participate in this forum and those who read it - do not ask other posters to call them then use the call to abuse and accuse and ridicule, then repeatedly over and over and over demanding I tell him I was lieing and he would do this or do that and if I didn't he would do this or that. It was horrible. Jerry Thomas put me in the ER twice. What he does is called abuse. I have ignored his post, but even that doesn't stop him. There is NO reason in the WORLD for anyone to treat another person with this kind of abuse - if I had recorded that phone call - I could have pressed charges. This is supposed to be a group of relative intelligent individuals seeking answers and this should be respected. Lots of you disagree with other posters, but you don't harrass them...some of you make remarks in jest and in fun and snicker or get sarcastic - but, he goes way beyond that! I do not apologize for defending myself and my word. How much information has been gleaned from the DZ in relation to the pros and cons and the technical aspects of the 1971 incident? Would any of you be doing what you are doing to the extend you are doing it - had it not been for DZ? WE as a group owe the Drop Zone some respect and we do that by respecting each other by utilizing this opportunity to share ideas DZ has provided to us...as a courtesy. Most of us are whuffos or Cooper enthusiats and some are personally involved, but some are writers and researchers. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 22 #17658 May 29, 2010 Jo claimed:QuoteJerry Thomas put me in the ER twice. Really? From thousands of miles away with no physical contact? The CIA was wasting their time having men staring at goats. The power they sought to harness was already being put to work by Jerry Thomas. Or ... Jo may be getting a little bit over dramatic Which alternative would Occam choose? 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Orange1 0 #17659 May 29, 2010 QuoteJo claimed:QuoteJerry Thomas put me in the ER twice. Really? From thousands of miles away with no physical contact? The CIA was wasting their time having men staring at goats. The power they sought to harness was already being put to work by Jerry Thomas. Or ... Jo may be getting a little bit over dramatic Which alternative would Occam choose? 377 I haven't read the original post you replied to, 377, but I imagine Jo is blaming the stress or whatever that Jerry supposedly inflicted on her (as though pre-existing health problems had no bearing on the case). Personally, I find Jo's attempts to put guilt trips on people rather distasteful. Of course, isn't this the way that voodoo, the "evil eye" etc are supposed to work - the "victim" becomes one because they pyschologically convince themselves they have been cursed? There is power in the mind. (Would be nice if some of that got used to solve the case rather than coming up with ways to blame everyone else for one's own misfortunes...)Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Sluggo_Monster 0 #17660 May 29, 2010 Blah bla blah bla. Blather, blah, blather, blah. Blah bla, blah bla bla. No one cares. Again, Jo, it's the INTERNET not the real world. Try, try, try to understand... he's a "Magic Man" - Heart 1977 (or there about) Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 22 #17661 May 29, 2010 http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-80s-BOEING-SKYDIVING-CLUB-T-SHIRT_W0QQitemZ250627282511QQcategoryZ52405QQvarZQQcmdZViewItem Odd that this vintage item would end up in the Phillipines. The 707 in the logo suggests that it is older than the 1980s. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Sluggo_Monster 0 #17662 May 30, 2010 All, I got an e-mail today from Robert Blevins (below in green) pointing me to his response to Galen Cook’s “Janet" Article. Oh well, if things get boring here at DZ.com, we can always spend our time keeping up with the “Cooper Author Soap Opera.” The real kicker is… after I sprung $12.99 + shipping for the book, and before I had the time to write a review in my blog, he has made the book available for FREE as a .PDF file. Gee whizz! Here we go: Hello Sluggo, You should probably take a look at the recent article in the Standard Examiner, an interview with Galen Cook. Personally, I thought it was a bunch of hooey. After I read it, I decided YOU were the real expert on the Cooper case. I used to think it was Cook. This was my response to it. I offer proof 'Janet's' story is hogwash. Can't believe both Cook and the reporter bought into it. BTW- on that response article is a link to our new book. We decided to make it free to the public in PDF, at least for now. Sincerely, Robert So now you can read “Into The Blast” for free and watch two authors with two different suspects hurl insults at each other. (It’s sort of like Jerry and Jo, isn’t it?) Happy Holiday, Sluggo Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BruceSmith 3 #17663 May 30, 2010 QuoteAll, I got an e-mail today from Robert Blevins (below in green) pointing me to his response to Galen Cook’s “Janet" Article. Oh well, if things get boring here at DZ.com, we can always spend our time keeping up with the “Cooper Author Soap Opera.” The real kicker is… after I sprung $12.99 + shipping for the book, and before I had the time to write a review in my blog, he has made the book available for FREE as a .PDF file. Gee whizz! Quote On behalf of starving artists and authors everyhwere, Slugs, thanks for the 12.99 contribution..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #17664 May 30, 2010 That was an excellent rebuttal to Blevins. But, then I don't count. It is a given that Galen chases certain things and uses things that do NOT fit the pattern as we know it. Blevins can't get his details correct - note that early on Blevins was at Sluggo's site - I made a comment in this forum that Blevin's needed to get his FACTs correct before trying to write a book. He had made a statement about a note being given to Tina Mucklow - and we all know it was Florence Shaffner. He must have gotten the message because he finally got it right. I don't agree with Blevins on his accounting and I also have problems with Cook (of course I would they aren't writing about Weber). Every book done on Cooper does the same thing - change facts or dress the truth...the only accepted "factual accountings" ever written into books are Tosaws and Himmelsachs - BUT, how much of their stories are also dressed to make for better reading. There will never be factual book about Cooper because the FBI has never made their files available to the public - and sometimes I think the FBI files will read like the different books -depending on the agent making the report. The truth just keeps changing every time someone writes a book - and NO book is going to be successful until the writer can prove his subject was Cooper. Even the FBI's own site used literary licensing. Too many writers and too many stories and the public looses interest...that is one way to make Cooper go away! Good thing Blevins made his book free - I wouldn't have paid for it. Blevins has NO idea where Tina is and I do not believe he ever talked to her....but that is just Jo talking - she is crazy and delusional - she claims she talked to Tina yrs ago. Now we know I am crazy - I am talking to and about myself!If someone actually held proof their subject was Cooper - that individual and the public will never know! Why? Because we don't know what is in a 38 yr old FBI file. After 38 yrs - an individual who could identify an item that might put a subject on the plane are either dead or have age or trauma induce memory loss![ Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #17665 May 30, 2010 Along these lines, I had a brief conversation with Lt. Ray Luney of the San Mateo County Sheriff's Department today, and he told me a packet of court documents is on its way to me. He confirmed that Burnworth had been arrested, but "not for anything having to do with airplanes." The arrest was for a contempt of court citation, and I presume it has to do with taking his kids out of the country. When I get the details, I'll post a comprehensive view of what happened with Donny B. This is about what I suspected, and previously posted. That leaves one to wonder what Mr. X, Burnworth, and Galen Cook are up to. On the other hand children often build myths for missing or deficient significant others - Don't be too surprised if the myth continues. Don't be surprised either if someday the FBI surfaces to say the Burnworth story was not true. The Janet story may be a horse of a different shade. Where there is one witness, there are potentially two (or more), or at least the rumor of another witness. The rumor was communicated in a church circle in Vancouver in 1972. The rumor may have made its way to Portland or even began in Portland for all I know. Janet may be the source of it all - I literally don't know (in spite of spending hours on the phone trying in vain to recover the rumor and people who heard it and passed it along). If nothing else, the rumor was real and passed on. A number of people eventually heard the rumor. I have no idea what Janet's church affiliation was, (if any), but I would very much like to know! I communicated part of this to Sluggo some time ago. Beyond this, there isn't much I want to say right now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SKYWHUFFO 1 #17666 May 30, 2010 Hey Sluggo! The Indy 500 has just finished, I guess it's time to watch the b-team race, the Coca-Cola somthing-er other? HA! Happy Memorial Day all! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Sluggo_Monster 0 #17667 May 30, 2010 Ohhhhhhhhh! Don't make me hurt you! Mess with me and you'll get Biffle-ated! Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #17668 May 31, 2010 Regarding Burnworth and the Report from San Mateo: Bruce said: QuoteThis is about what I suspected, and previously posted. That leaves one to wonder what Mr. X, Burnworth, and Galen Cook are up to. On the other hand children often build myths for missing or deficient significant others - Bruce - I have to agree. Since Burnworth didn't check out - it could have been "planted" information to see if anyone would take the "bait". There have been worse things done in the Cooper research and efforts to discredit others in search of Cooper. It was known by Cook and others that I was looking for a SLC pilot - and one was provided with a background that could have crossed with that of Weber...I never made an attempt to contact Burnworth, but it was worth the effort regardless of the results. I was curious about him because of the life style and his being a SLC pilot. Maybe the lead was sincere and maybe it was a cast off others did not think significant - only time will tell. What surpised me was the eagerness of his daughter and I got the drift from your posting of the conversation that she thought her father was Cooper or did I miss read that. This did NOT correspond with the conversation you had with her father as he said he didn't know who Cooper was. The motive Burnworth gave for the Cooper Set-up was WAY OUT - I didn't buy that at all....that is when "No Way" started flashing for me. The stated motive was a "Red Light".Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BruceSmith 3 #17669 May 31, 2010 Interview with Robert Blevins, author of: “Into the Blast, The True Story of DB Cooper” I spoke with Robert Blevins for about 20-30 minutes on the Memorial Day Weekend, 2010. Robert seemed to be guarded, initially. His first words to me were: “It’s okay with me if you tape this.” That mind-set had been revealed earlier when I read his web site and learned of his efforts to achieve absolute security when he conducted his interviews and wrote his book. He was afraid that the FBI would take all of his notes and shut down his project. However, over time, my conversation with Robert warmed up, but the initial stages were filled with many pauses. Overall, Robert Blevins has only a modest understanding of the DB Cooper case. In fact, he has very little knowledge of much of what is in the book, and as a result he is unable to expand or explain in greater detail many elements of the book. Frequently, when I asked a question, Robert would say, “Oh, Skipp Porteous knows that – he did the interview.” In reality, Robert was more like an editor of Porteous’ transcripts than a writer in the customary sense of the word. However, he did conduct a few interviews on his own, primarily with the Mike, Dawn and Katie characters, and the current owners of the former Christianson property in Bonney Lake, WA. Apparently, Porteous, a private investigator in New York City, did copious amounts of investigatory work to find all these people and their addresses, and to verify corroborative information, such as determining the various owners of the Christianson property in Bonney Lake and obtaining the details regarding the bag of $2,000 in 20s found in a stump pile. When I asked if I could interview these individuals, Robert gave a curious answer. He told me that the characters had indicated to him that they would be open to the idea of speaking with other researchers and journalists, but he said that he wanted to protect them and would not release their contact information. He said he wanted to spare them the “onslaught” or words to that effect. Nevertheless, I asked him to pass on my contact information to them along with my invitation to call me, and he said he would. Robert also said that he and Porteous did not speak directly with Tina Mucklow, and only communicated with a “family intermediary.” He said that Tina was unable to speak with journalists and researchers because it would be “too upsetting.” Nevertheless, he characterized Tina’s health and well-being as “fine.” He also said that she “has a normal life – family and kids and all that.” Indicative of Robert’s paucity of knowledge in the DB Cooper case, Robert was surprised to learn that Tina had been in a convent for 12 years. He had thought the stories of Tina being a nun were false. Robert also does not seem to have any substantive knowledge of the works of Calame, Tosaw or Himmelsbach, and seemed unfamiliar with information provided by Captain Bohan on the wind speed and direction, and other similar details pertaining to the flight path and jump. Robert also seemed very comfortable with what he considers the FBI’s officially stated metrics on weather, wind speed and direction, and does not appear eager to entertain conflicting information, even if it comes from a former FBI official. However, Robert is very familiar with Richard McCoy’s age of 29 in 1971, and spoke with incredulity about how the FBI could consider a suspect so wildly out of the reported age range of “mid-to-late forties.” As for the book’s statement that Captain Scott left the cockpit and sat next to Cooper to ascertain the reality of the bomb, Robert said that he got that from Porteous, who got it from Bill Rataczak in a taped phone conversation. Robert has not visited or communicated with Florence Schaffner, nor has Skipp, apparently, yet, although Robert said Porteous would in the future. Robert says they are comfortable with the information provided by Geoff Gray in his New York Magazine piece, where Florence says the picture Gray showed her of Christianson is the closest she has seen, yet, of DB Cooper. Robert does not have a DNA profile of Kenny Christianson. In addition, he claimed that the FBI doesn’t have any viable DNA samples of DB Cooper, stating that the Bourbon cup and the cigarette butts were mis-handled too severely to provide a viable sample of genetic material. Robert said he got this information from Skipp. When asked why the FBI ruled out Christianson, Robert said it was because of disparities in the height and eye color. Robert told me that Kenny’s driver’s license says that KC was 5’8” and 170 pounds, with hazel eyes, “whatever color that is,” added Robert. Later, though, Robert characterized Kenny as “lying” on his driver’s license, adding, “I don’t know why he would lie.” Robert said that Kenny was taller than 5’8” and probably closer to six-foot tall, based on two pictures. One, taken with his father, Kenny stands an inch taller than his 5’11” dad. Also, in the picture of Kenny walking in the doorway of his home a few days after the skyjacking with a briefcase and paper sack, Robert says the measurements of the door frame and the placement of Kenny in the picture show him to be “about six-feet tall.” Robert says he has verified this by measuring the actual door frame. Robert also provided some original and interesting information. He said that Kenny Christianson worked for Northwest Orient Airlines, part-time, until 1993. Further, the Christianson family seems circumspect about the possibility of Kenny being DB Cooper. “Some don’t care, others are embarrassed,” said Robert. Robert also said the free PDF version of “Into the Blast” will be “around for awhile.” He spoke convincingly that his work is about finding the truth. “It’s not about the money at all. It’s about the truth.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wolfriverjoe 1,523 #17670 June 1, 2010 Quote Janet, who was in the passenger seat, looked up just as the car was backing out of the driveway and saw a light pass overhead. A platform or ladder below a plane caught her eye. WE CAN'T have it both ways! Which is it. Reports say the weather was shitty, clouds and Cooper could not see the ground except for breaks in the clouds here and there. Now this lady stated she could see the steps at 10-12K at night while setting in a Datson and see the flares leave the plane. I throw the BS flag, but the problem is which is truth and which is fiction???? HHHMMMM!!!??!?!?!? anyone concour???? I haven't been keeping up with this thread the way I used to, but I have to chime in here. BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There's no way she could have been able to pick out a person standing on the lowered rear stairs from 10k. I spend way too much time looking up at a Cessna 182 at 10,000 feet. With years of practice, under optimum conditions, I can tell when the door is opened (hinged at the top, the inside of the door is black, the bottom of the wing is white). The inexperienced spectators need to be guided to the plane (I bring them under the opened hangar door and use it as a reference) and they often refuse to believe that I can see that the door is opened. At night, in cloudy weather, with a darkened cabin... With little or no experience looking for opened doors on planes. Yeah, riiiiiight."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 22 #17671 June 1, 2010 from my post about 3 pages back: ************ "What I saw was flames and thought I saw something on the platform which could have been a person," Janet said. I say NO WAY on the accuracy Janet's alleged sighting of a "platform, ladder, person" or any other structural detail on the 727 that night. **************** Jumpers have a lot of experience looking at exits from jumpships. No jumper would give Janet's visual account of aircraft detail any credibility, especially given the altitude and conditions. Her flare trajectory account is a bit more interesting to me because she allegedly described an arcing descent path. That's what you would see and it's not intuitive to most non aviation people. The "flames" part makes no sense. A road flare would be seen as a bright red point source of light. 66.6 % of Janet's story appears to be BS... hmmmm. What are the chances the rest is true? 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #17672 June 1, 2010 Quote Quote Janet, who was in the passenger seat, looked up just as the car was backing out of the driveway and saw a light pass overhead. A platform or ladder below a plane caught her eye. WE CAN'T have it both ways! Which is it. Reports say the weather was shitty, clouds and Cooper could not see the ground except for breaks in the clouds here and there. Now this lady stated she could see the steps at 10-12K at night while setting in a Datson and see the flares leave the plane. I throw the BS flag, but the problem is which is truth and which is fiction???? HHHMMMM!!!??!?!?!? anyone concour???? I haven't been keeping up with this thread the way I used to, but I have to chime in here. BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There's no way she could have been able to pick out a person standing on the lowered rear stairs from 10k. I spend way too much time looking up at a Cessna 182 at 10,000 feet. With years of practice, under optimum conditions, I can tell when the door is opened (hinged at the top, the inside of the door is black, the bottom of the wing is white). The inexperienced spectators need to be guided to the plane (I bring them under the opened hangar door and use it as a reference) and they often refuse to believe that I can see that the door is opened. At night, in cloudy weather, with a darkened cabin... With little or no experience looking for opened doors on planes. Yeah, riiiiiight. The physics supports you. again from several pages back: " The physical facts of human vision remain the same, regardless of anyone's story: * Angular resolution: about 0.02°-0.03°), which corresponds to 30–60 cm at a 1 km distance = 0.625mi = 3300ft. Translated this means that people with normal vision can usually resolve objects no closer apart than 30-60cm (1-2 feet) at a distance of 3300 feet or 1 km. (see Wiki Vision Acuity; other sources convey the same standard data on human vision)." attached - [a camera may be considered a perfect eye] [edit] The problem is: the physics requires Jan's report was of a plane below 10,000 feet and more likely 2500 feet or less. And secondly, Jan's was not the only report of this kind which surfaced by 1972. That is documented fact. Stories like Jan's are of the type which one might expect after a highly publicised hijacking of this nature (in your own back yard). Lots of Washingtons and Oregonians surfaced with all kinds of "stories" and "claims" following the highjacking. Obviously not all made into the news. Jan's apparently didnt. Norma's didnt. Emma's didnt. Evene a few LE people surfaced with stories .... all of which proves, we have only scratched the surface of the Cooper hijacking. Imagine for one moment the catalog of stories and anecdotes LE and the FBI could tell! They could write a book! (did I say that again?) [edit] one story I want to hear more about is the story from the woman in Washington who said 'they all listened to flight #305 on their radio'. Finally distance and interferenece washed out the signal. This story was mentioned in this forum, once long ago. The story involves multiple witnesses some of whom may still be alive. maybe they belonged to Emma's church group too!Meanwhile, the "Coopre researchers and book writers" (whoever ithey are!) would have you believe there is some some secret information or some edge on this case only they have, and never mind the thousands of people from professionals to lay-people who actually had some real part of this case, unimagined and real as it actually happened. Why in that context was Cooper never found? Why did the man pick the name Cooper? What was the real flight path and drop zone? How did the money get to Tina Bar? The Cooper hijacking happened in the real world. I think its time to start reminding ourselves of that small fact in order to avoid more of the same old unproductive nonsense people have dispensing and trying to sell ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #17673 June 1, 2010 Quote Why in that context was Cooper never found? Because he actually got away and he was an unknown as far as jumpers are concerned. The composite was off and the media in the East and South did not make it front page news. Quote Why did the man pick the name Cooper? Starts to say D, but then stops short and looks down at his cigarettes with the Coupon on the page and says Cooooper. Does there really have to be a REASON for his using that name? Does it really have to have a connection. Perhaps it was just a name he made up with no meaning to it what so ever. Quote What was the real flight path and drop zone? You guys are the specialist on that. Quote How did the money get to Tina Bar? When he went back to retrive the money he had buried - some of it was too damaged so he threw it into the Columbia - behind the Red Lion Inn in Vancover and with a grin on his face watched the evidence go down the river. ***The Cooper hijacking happened in the real world. I think its time to start reminding ourselves of that small fact in order to avoid more of the same old unproductive nonsense people are dispensing and trying to sell ...[/quote I guess I fall in the dispensing category - sure don't fall in the trying to sell. Sorry Georger the whole time. I just couldn't help myself, but you are right - those are simple question and none of them addressl PS. WHY doesn't someone post a picture of a plane 2000 ft, and 3000 ft and so forth - surely such pictures exist in this arena of skydivers. Surely there are many examples of such within this forum taken from the ground. Be interesting to see even though they would be on sunny clear days - but it might help some of us determine just how much could an individual on the ground actually see on that night. Perhaps a picture of a 727 could be simulated at the various elevations - would be an interesting thing to see just how much detail could be seen at all of the possible elevations.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #17674 June 2, 2010 Today I was bored and did something I have NEVER done. I went to Sluggo's site and viewed the media articles he had. Something I never wanted to do was to contaminate my memory by reading about other skyjackings...and did little research in that manner other than McCoy and Coffelt. ( I have never read the book written about McCoy). My research has been trying to validate the past of one Duane L. Weber. I was disappointed because a news video had been removed...and wondered what Sluggo meant by "only thing on the plane shredded". Was that referring to the aft stair well? Some of you I am sure viewed it when it was available. Reading all of the various articles about prior skyjackings - I think I did the right thing by NOT doing this several yrs ago...Seriously...it was a good thing - my not being exposed to the information about prior skyjackings. A few of the Cooper articles I had read - but isolated myself from articles about prior skyjackings - to avoid faulting my memories. Now I am glad I did. (A couple of them I had read before because they had been sent to me or I accidentally stumbled into them). Sluggo asked if anyone spotted the myths and facts. The fact vesus myth thing regarding the Skyjacking was happening way back then - so I ask this question. IS part of WHAT we think or know as FACT a reporting error or incorrect information (the creation of a Myth) that made it into the FACT category during the past 37 plus yrs? Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #17675 June 2, 2010 Senator Orin Hatch of Utah today proposed as follows: AMENDMENT NO.llll TO STOLEN HONOR ACT Calendar No.lll Purpose: To prohibit the fraudulent representation of military service to obtain employment or other benefits. IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES—111th Cong., 2d Sess. H. R. 4899 Making emergency supplemental appropriations for disaster relief and summer jobs for the fiscal year ending Sep- tember 30, 2010, and for other purposes. Referred to the Committee onllllllllll and ordered to be printed Ordered to lie on the table and to be printed AMENDMENTintended to be proposed by Mr. HATCH Viz: On page 81, between lines 22 and 23, insert the fol- 1 lowing: 2 PROHIBITION ON FRAUDULENT REPRESENTATION OF MILITARY SERVICE TO OBTAIN EMPLOYMENT OR OTHER BENEFITS 5 SEC. 3008. (a) CRIMINALOFFENSE.—Section 704 of 6 title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the 7 end the following new subsection: 8 ‘‘(c) FRAUDULENT REPRESENTATION OF MILITARY SERVICE OR AFFILIATION.—Whoever knowingly makes a fraudulent statement . . . 10 : Tues June 01 2010 Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) is attempting to amend the 2005 Stolen Honor Act, which criminalized false claims of military service, in order to seek False gain by fraud. Sen. Orrin Hatch’s (R-Utah) bill would make it illegal to air misleading public statements about anyone’s military service or the service of another ... Hatch's amendment defines an offender as "whoever knowingly makes a fraudulent statement or representation, verbally or in writing, regarding the military service of any citizen of the United States vis-a-vis service in the United States Armed Forces, including but not limited to, participation in combat operations, or affiliation with United States Armed Forces, for the purpose of gaining recognition, honorarium, official office or titles, a position of authority, or any other fraudulent purpose seeking gain or recognition or recompense." [edit] Sen Hatch's bill has strong support from a cross section of the American public and organisations. Sen Hatch's bill would cover instances of fraudulent assertions of military service occurring on the internet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 702 703 704 705 706 707 708 709 710 711 712 Next Page 707 of 2568 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. 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skyjack71 0 #17657 May 29, 2010 Georger stated: "I do not approve or condone this ongoing debate between Mr. Thomas and Jo Weber. I see this as pointless-in-the-extreme" Sluggo stated: "Bravo georger! Now we need to convince them that others just don't care how they feel about each other." This thread is NOT about how we feel about each other and it is NOT about condoning abuse. I do NOT debate him - I defend myself. One can agree to disagree WITHOUT - calling the other a liar and some of the substitutes he uses. I do not come into the forum and accuse others of lieing and making up stories. I disagree with others and I make that known - but, I do not go around trying to discredit them or making fun of them and publicly ridiculing them. Most come here to discuss the Cooper pro and cons - looking for answers. Others who participate in this forum and those who read it - do not ask other posters to call them then use the call to abuse and accuse and ridicule, then repeatedly over and over and over demanding I tell him I was lieing and he would do this or do that and if I didn't he would do this or that. It was horrible. Jerry Thomas put me in the ER twice. What he does is called abuse. I have ignored his post, but even that doesn't stop him. There is NO reason in the WORLD for anyone to treat another person with this kind of abuse - if I had recorded that phone call - I could have pressed charges. This is supposed to be a group of relative intelligent individuals seeking answers and this should be respected. Lots of you disagree with other posters, but you don't harrass them...some of you make remarks in jest and in fun and snicker or get sarcastic - but, he goes way beyond that! I do not apologize for defending myself and my word. How much information has been gleaned from the DZ in relation to the pros and cons and the technical aspects of the 1971 incident? Would any of you be doing what you are doing to the extend you are doing it - had it not been for DZ? WE as a group owe the Drop Zone some respect and we do that by respecting each other by utilizing this opportunity to share ideas DZ has provided to us...as a courtesy. Most of us are whuffos or Cooper enthusiats and some are personally involved, but some are writers and researchers. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 22 #17658 May 29, 2010 Jo claimed:QuoteJerry Thomas put me in the ER twice. Really? From thousands of miles away with no physical contact? The CIA was wasting their time having men staring at goats. The power they sought to harness was already being put to work by Jerry Thomas. Or ... Jo may be getting a little bit over dramatic Which alternative would Occam choose? 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Orange1 0 #17659 May 29, 2010 QuoteJo claimed:QuoteJerry Thomas put me in the ER twice. Really? From thousands of miles away with no physical contact? The CIA was wasting their time having men staring at goats. The power they sought to harness was already being put to work by Jerry Thomas. Or ... Jo may be getting a little bit over dramatic Which alternative would Occam choose? 377 I haven't read the original post you replied to, 377, but I imagine Jo is blaming the stress or whatever that Jerry supposedly inflicted on her (as though pre-existing health problems had no bearing on the case). Personally, I find Jo's attempts to put guilt trips on people rather distasteful. Of course, isn't this the way that voodoo, the "evil eye" etc are supposed to work - the "victim" becomes one because they pyschologically convince themselves they have been cursed? There is power in the mind. (Would be nice if some of that got used to solve the case rather than coming up with ways to blame everyone else for one's own misfortunes...)Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sluggo_Monster 0 #17660 May 29, 2010 Blah bla blah bla. Blather, blah, blather, blah. Blah bla, blah bla bla. No one cares. Again, Jo, it's the INTERNET not the real world. Try, try, try to understand... he's a "Magic Man" - Heart 1977 (or there about) Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 22 #17661 May 29, 2010 http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-80s-BOEING-SKYDIVING-CLUB-T-SHIRT_W0QQitemZ250627282511QQcategoryZ52405QQvarZQQcmdZViewItem Odd that this vintage item would end up in the Phillipines. The 707 in the logo suggests that it is older than the 1980s. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sluggo_Monster 0 #17662 May 30, 2010 All, I got an e-mail today from Robert Blevins (below in green) pointing me to his response to Galen Cook’s “Janet" Article. Oh well, if things get boring here at DZ.com, we can always spend our time keeping up with the “Cooper Author Soap Opera.” The real kicker is… after I sprung $12.99 + shipping for the book, and before I had the time to write a review in my blog, he has made the book available for FREE as a .PDF file. Gee whizz! Here we go: Hello Sluggo, You should probably take a look at the recent article in the Standard Examiner, an interview with Galen Cook. Personally, I thought it was a bunch of hooey. After I read it, I decided YOU were the real expert on the Cooper case. I used to think it was Cook. This was my response to it. I offer proof 'Janet's' story is hogwash. Can't believe both Cook and the reporter bought into it. BTW- on that response article is a link to our new book. We decided to make it free to the public in PDF, at least for now. Sincerely, Robert So now you can read “Into The Blast” for free and watch two authors with two different suspects hurl insults at each other. (It’s sort of like Jerry and Jo, isn’t it?) Happy Holiday, Sluggo Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BruceSmith 3 #17663 May 30, 2010 QuoteAll, I got an e-mail today from Robert Blevins (below in green) pointing me to his response to Galen Cook’s “Janet" Article. Oh well, if things get boring here at DZ.com, we can always spend our time keeping up with the “Cooper Author Soap Opera.” The real kicker is… after I sprung $12.99 + shipping for the book, and before I had the time to write a review in my blog, he has made the book available for FREE as a .PDF file. Gee whizz! Quote On behalf of starving artists and authors everyhwere, Slugs, thanks for the 12.99 contribution..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #17664 May 30, 2010 That was an excellent rebuttal to Blevins. But, then I don't count. It is a given that Galen chases certain things and uses things that do NOT fit the pattern as we know it. Blevins can't get his details correct - note that early on Blevins was at Sluggo's site - I made a comment in this forum that Blevin's needed to get his FACTs correct before trying to write a book. He had made a statement about a note being given to Tina Mucklow - and we all know it was Florence Shaffner. He must have gotten the message because he finally got it right. I don't agree with Blevins on his accounting and I also have problems with Cook (of course I would they aren't writing about Weber). Every book done on Cooper does the same thing - change facts or dress the truth...the only accepted "factual accountings" ever written into books are Tosaws and Himmelsachs - BUT, how much of their stories are also dressed to make for better reading. There will never be factual book about Cooper because the FBI has never made their files available to the public - and sometimes I think the FBI files will read like the different books -depending on the agent making the report. The truth just keeps changing every time someone writes a book - and NO book is going to be successful until the writer can prove his subject was Cooper. Even the FBI's own site used literary licensing. Too many writers and too many stories and the public looses interest...that is one way to make Cooper go away! Good thing Blevins made his book free - I wouldn't have paid for it. Blevins has NO idea where Tina is and I do not believe he ever talked to her....but that is just Jo talking - she is crazy and delusional - she claims she talked to Tina yrs ago. Now we know I am crazy - I am talking to and about myself!If someone actually held proof their subject was Cooper - that individual and the public will never know! Why? Because we don't know what is in a 38 yr old FBI file. After 38 yrs - an individual who could identify an item that might put a subject on the plane are either dead or have age or trauma induce memory loss![ Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #17665 May 30, 2010 Along these lines, I had a brief conversation with Lt. Ray Luney of the San Mateo County Sheriff's Department today, and he told me a packet of court documents is on its way to me. He confirmed that Burnworth had been arrested, but "not for anything having to do with airplanes." The arrest was for a contempt of court citation, and I presume it has to do with taking his kids out of the country. When I get the details, I'll post a comprehensive view of what happened with Donny B. This is about what I suspected, and previously posted. That leaves one to wonder what Mr. X, Burnworth, and Galen Cook are up to. On the other hand children often build myths for missing or deficient significant others - Don't be too surprised if the myth continues. Don't be surprised either if someday the FBI surfaces to say the Burnworth story was not true. The Janet story may be a horse of a different shade. Where there is one witness, there are potentially two (or more), or at least the rumor of another witness. The rumor was communicated in a church circle in Vancouver in 1972. The rumor may have made its way to Portland or even began in Portland for all I know. Janet may be the source of it all - I literally don't know (in spite of spending hours on the phone trying in vain to recover the rumor and people who heard it and passed it along). If nothing else, the rumor was real and passed on. A number of people eventually heard the rumor. I have no idea what Janet's church affiliation was, (if any), but I would very much like to know! I communicated part of this to Sluggo some time ago. Beyond this, there isn't much I want to say right now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SKYWHUFFO 1 #17666 May 30, 2010 Hey Sluggo! The Indy 500 has just finished, I guess it's time to watch the b-team race, the Coca-Cola somthing-er other? HA! Happy Memorial Day all! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Sluggo_Monster 0 #17667 May 30, 2010 Ohhhhhhhhh! Don't make me hurt you! Mess with me and you'll get Biffle-ated! Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #17668 May 31, 2010 Regarding Burnworth and the Report from San Mateo: Bruce said: QuoteThis is about what I suspected, and previously posted. That leaves one to wonder what Mr. X, Burnworth, and Galen Cook are up to. On the other hand children often build myths for missing or deficient significant others - Bruce - I have to agree. Since Burnworth didn't check out - it could have been "planted" information to see if anyone would take the "bait". There have been worse things done in the Cooper research and efforts to discredit others in search of Cooper. It was known by Cook and others that I was looking for a SLC pilot - and one was provided with a background that could have crossed with that of Weber...I never made an attempt to contact Burnworth, but it was worth the effort regardless of the results. I was curious about him because of the life style and his being a SLC pilot. Maybe the lead was sincere and maybe it was a cast off others did not think significant - only time will tell. What surpised me was the eagerness of his daughter and I got the drift from your posting of the conversation that she thought her father was Cooper or did I miss read that. This did NOT correspond with the conversation you had with her father as he said he didn't know who Cooper was. The motive Burnworth gave for the Cooper Set-up was WAY OUT - I didn't buy that at all....that is when "No Way" started flashing for me. The stated motive was a "Red Light".Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BruceSmith 3 #17669 May 31, 2010 Interview with Robert Blevins, author of: “Into the Blast, The True Story of DB Cooper” I spoke with Robert Blevins for about 20-30 minutes on the Memorial Day Weekend, 2010. Robert seemed to be guarded, initially. His first words to me were: “It’s okay with me if you tape this.” That mind-set had been revealed earlier when I read his web site and learned of his efforts to achieve absolute security when he conducted his interviews and wrote his book. He was afraid that the FBI would take all of his notes and shut down his project. However, over time, my conversation with Robert warmed up, but the initial stages were filled with many pauses. Overall, Robert Blevins has only a modest understanding of the DB Cooper case. In fact, he has very little knowledge of much of what is in the book, and as a result he is unable to expand or explain in greater detail many elements of the book. Frequently, when I asked a question, Robert would say, “Oh, Skipp Porteous knows that – he did the interview.” In reality, Robert was more like an editor of Porteous’ transcripts than a writer in the customary sense of the word. However, he did conduct a few interviews on his own, primarily with the Mike, Dawn and Katie characters, and the current owners of the former Christianson property in Bonney Lake, WA. Apparently, Porteous, a private investigator in New York City, did copious amounts of investigatory work to find all these people and their addresses, and to verify corroborative information, such as determining the various owners of the Christianson property in Bonney Lake and obtaining the details regarding the bag of $2,000 in 20s found in a stump pile. When I asked if I could interview these individuals, Robert gave a curious answer. He told me that the characters had indicated to him that they would be open to the idea of speaking with other researchers and journalists, but he said that he wanted to protect them and would not release their contact information. He said he wanted to spare them the “onslaught” or words to that effect. Nevertheless, I asked him to pass on my contact information to them along with my invitation to call me, and he said he would. Robert also said that he and Porteous did not speak directly with Tina Mucklow, and only communicated with a “family intermediary.” He said that Tina was unable to speak with journalists and researchers because it would be “too upsetting.” Nevertheless, he characterized Tina’s health and well-being as “fine.” He also said that she “has a normal life – family and kids and all that.” Indicative of Robert’s paucity of knowledge in the DB Cooper case, Robert was surprised to learn that Tina had been in a convent for 12 years. He had thought the stories of Tina being a nun were false. Robert also does not seem to have any substantive knowledge of the works of Calame, Tosaw or Himmelsbach, and seemed unfamiliar with information provided by Captain Bohan on the wind speed and direction, and other similar details pertaining to the flight path and jump. Robert also seemed very comfortable with what he considers the FBI’s officially stated metrics on weather, wind speed and direction, and does not appear eager to entertain conflicting information, even if it comes from a former FBI official. However, Robert is very familiar with Richard McCoy’s age of 29 in 1971, and spoke with incredulity about how the FBI could consider a suspect so wildly out of the reported age range of “mid-to-late forties.” As for the book’s statement that Captain Scott left the cockpit and sat next to Cooper to ascertain the reality of the bomb, Robert said that he got that from Porteous, who got it from Bill Rataczak in a taped phone conversation. Robert has not visited or communicated with Florence Schaffner, nor has Skipp, apparently, yet, although Robert said Porteous would in the future. Robert says they are comfortable with the information provided by Geoff Gray in his New York Magazine piece, where Florence says the picture Gray showed her of Christianson is the closest she has seen, yet, of DB Cooper. Robert does not have a DNA profile of Kenny Christianson. In addition, he claimed that the FBI doesn’t have any viable DNA samples of DB Cooper, stating that the Bourbon cup and the cigarette butts were mis-handled too severely to provide a viable sample of genetic material. Robert said he got this information from Skipp. When asked why the FBI ruled out Christianson, Robert said it was because of disparities in the height and eye color. Robert told me that Kenny’s driver’s license says that KC was 5’8” and 170 pounds, with hazel eyes, “whatever color that is,” added Robert. Later, though, Robert characterized Kenny as “lying” on his driver’s license, adding, “I don’t know why he would lie.” Robert said that Kenny was taller than 5’8” and probably closer to six-foot tall, based on two pictures. One, taken with his father, Kenny stands an inch taller than his 5’11” dad. Also, in the picture of Kenny walking in the doorway of his home a few days after the skyjacking with a briefcase and paper sack, Robert says the measurements of the door frame and the placement of Kenny in the picture show him to be “about six-feet tall.” Robert says he has verified this by measuring the actual door frame. Robert also provided some original and interesting information. He said that Kenny Christianson worked for Northwest Orient Airlines, part-time, until 1993. Further, the Christianson family seems circumspect about the possibility of Kenny being DB Cooper. “Some don’t care, others are embarrassed,” said Robert. Robert also said the free PDF version of “Into the Blast” will be “around for awhile.” He spoke convincingly that his work is about finding the truth. “It’s not about the money at all. It’s about the truth.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wolfriverjoe 1,523 #17670 June 1, 2010 Quote Janet, who was in the passenger seat, looked up just as the car was backing out of the driveway and saw a light pass overhead. A platform or ladder below a plane caught her eye. WE CAN'T have it both ways! Which is it. Reports say the weather was shitty, clouds and Cooper could not see the ground except for breaks in the clouds here and there. Now this lady stated she could see the steps at 10-12K at night while setting in a Datson and see the flares leave the plane. I throw the BS flag, but the problem is which is truth and which is fiction???? HHHMMMM!!!??!?!?!? anyone concour???? I haven't been keeping up with this thread the way I used to, but I have to chime in here. BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There's no way she could have been able to pick out a person standing on the lowered rear stairs from 10k. I spend way too much time looking up at a Cessna 182 at 10,000 feet. With years of practice, under optimum conditions, I can tell when the door is opened (hinged at the top, the inside of the door is black, the bottom of the wing is white). The inexperienced spectators need to be guided to the plane (I bring them under the opened hangar door and use it as a reference) and they often refuse to believe that I can see that the door is opened. At night, in cloudy weather, with a darkened cabin... With little or no experience looking for opened doors on planes. Yeah, riiiiiight."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 22 #17671 June 1, 2010 from my post about 3 pages back: ************ "What I saw was flames and thought I saw something on the platform which could have been a person," Janet said. I say NO WAY on the accuracy Janet's alleged sighting of a "platform, ladder, person" or any other structural detail on the 727 that night. **************** Jumpers have a lot of experience looking at exits from jumpships. No jumper would give Janet's visual account of aircraft detail any credibility, especially given the altitude and conditions. Her flare trajectory account is a bit more interesting to me because she allegedly described an arcing descent path. That's what you would see and it's not intuitive to most non aviation people. The "flames" part makes no sense. A road flare would be seen as a bright red point source of light. 66.6 % of Janet's story appears to be BS... hmmmm. What are the chances the rest is true? 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #17672 June 1, 2010 Quote Quote Janet, who was in the passenger seat, looked up just as the car was backing out of the driveway and saw a light pass overhead. A platform or ladder below a plane caught her eye. WE CAN'T have it both ways! Which is it. Reports say the weather was shitty, clouds and Cooper could not see the ground except for breaks in the clouds here and there. Now this lady stated she could see the steps at 10-12K at night while setting in a Datson and see the flares leave the plane. I throw the BS flag, but the problem is which is truth and which is fiction???? HHHMMMM!!!??!?!?!? anyone concour???? I haven't been keeping up with this thread the way I used to, but I have to chime in here. BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There's no way she could have been able to pick out a person standing on the lowered rear stairs from 10k. I spend way too much time looking up at a Cessna 182 at 10,000 feet. With years of practice, under optimum conditions, I can tell when the door is opened (hinged at the top, the inside of the door is black, the bottom of the wing is white). The inexperienced spectators need to be guided to the plane (I bring them under the opened hangar door and use it as a reference) and they often refuse to believe that I can see that the door is opened. At night, in cloudy weather, with a darkened cabin... With little or no experience looking for opened doors on planes. Yeah, riiiiiight. The physics supports you. again from several pages back: " The physical facts of human vision remain the same, regardless of anyone's story: * Angular resolution: about 0.02°-0.03°), which corresponds to 30–60 cm at a 1 km distance = 0.625mi = 3300ft. Translated this means that people with normal vision can usually resolve objects no closer apart than 30-60cm (1-2 feet) at a distance of 3300 feet or 1 km. (see Wiki Vision Acuity; other sources convey the same standard data on human vision)." attached - [a camera may be considered a perfect eye] [edit] The problem is: the physics requires Jan's report was of a plane below 10,000 feet and more likely 2500 feet or less. And secondly, Jan's was not the only report of this kind which surfaced by 1972. That is documented fact. Stories like Jan's are of the type which one might expect after a highly publicised hijacking of this nature (in your own back yard). Lots of Washingtons and Oregonians surfaced with all kinds of "stories" and "claims" following the highjacking. Obviously not all made into the news. Jan's apparently didnt. Norma's didnt. Emma's didnt. Evene a few LE people surfaced with stories .... all of which proves, we have only scratched the surface of the Cooper hijacking. Imagine for one moment the catalog of stories and anecdotes LE and the FBI could tell! They could write a book! (did I say that again?) [edit] one story I want to hear more about is the story from the woman in Washington who said 'they all listened to flight #305 on their radio'. Finally distance and interferenece washed out the signal. This story was mentioned in this forum, once long ago. The story involves multiple witnesses some of whom may still be alive. maybe they belonged to Emma's church group too!Meanwhile, the "Coopre researchers and book writers" (whoever ithey are!) would have you believe there is some some secret information or some edge on this case only they have, and never mind the thousands of people from professionals to lay-people who actually had some real part of this case, unimagined and real as it actually happened. Why in that context was Cooper never found? Why did the man pick the name Cooper? What was the real flight path and drop zone? How did the money get to Tina Bar? The Cooper hijacking happened in the real world. I think its time to start reminding ourselves of that small fact in order to avoid more of the same old unproductive nonsense people have dispensing and trying to sell ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #17673 June 1, 2010 Quote Why in that context was Cooper never found? Because he actually got away and he was an unknown as far as jumpers are concerned. The composite was off and the media in the East and South did not make it front page news. Quote Why did the man pick the name Cooper? Starts to say D, but then stops short and looks down at his cigarettes with the Coupon on the page and says Cooooper. Does there really have to be a REASON for his using that name? Does it really have to have a connection. Perhaps it was just a name he made up with no meaning to it what so ever. Quote What was the real flight path and drop zone? You guys are the specialist on that. Quote How did the money get to Tina Bar? When he went back to retrive the money he had buried - some of it was too damaged so he threw it into the Columbia - behind the Red Lion Inn in Vancover and with a grin on his face watched the evidence go down the river. ***The Cooper hijacking happened in the real world. I think its time to start reminding ourselves of that small fact in order to avoid more of the same old unproductive nonsense people are dispensing and trying to sell ...[/quote I guess I fall in the dispensing category - sure don't fall in the trying to sell. Sorry Georger the whole time. I just couldn't help myself, but you are right - those are simple question and none of them addressl PS. WHY doesn't someone post a picture of a plane 2000 ft, and 3000 ft and so forth - surely such pictures exist in this arena of skydivers. Surely there are many examples of such within this forum taken from the ground. Be interesting to see even though they would be on sunny clear days - but it might help some of us determine just how much could an individual on the ground actually see on that night. Perhaps a picture of a 727 could be simulated at the various elevations - would be an interesting thing to see just how much detail could be seen at all of the possible elevations.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #17674 June 2, 2010 Today I was bored and did something I have NEVER done. I went to Sluggo's site and viewed the media articles he had. Something I never wanted to do was to contaminate my memory by reading about other skyjackings...and did little research in that manner other than McCoy and Coffelt. ( I have never read the book written about McCoy). My research has been trying to validate the past of one Duane L. Weber. I was disappointed because a news video had been removed...and wondered what Sluggo meant by "only thing on the plane shredded". Was that referring to the aft stair well? Some of you I am sure viewed it when it was available. Reading all of the various articles about prior skyjackings - I think I did the right thing by NOT doing this several yrs ago...Seriously...it was a good thing - my not being exposed to the information about prior skyjackings. A few of the Cooper articles I had read - but isolated myself from articles about prior skyjackings - to avoid faulting my memories. Now I am glad I did. (A couple of them I had read before because they had been sent to me or I accidentally stumbled into them). Sluggo asked if anyone spotted the myths and facts. The fact vesus myth thing regarding the Skyjacking was happening way back then - so I ask this question. IS part of WHAT we think or know as FACT a reporting error or incorrect information (the creation of a Myth) that made it into the FACT category during the past 37 plus yrs? Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 244 #17675 June 2, 2010 Senator Orin Hatch of Utah today proposed as follows: AMENDMENT NO.llll TO STOLEN HONOR ACT Calendar No.lll Purpose: To prohibit the fraudulent representation of military service to obtain employment or other benefits. IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES—111th Cong., 2d Sess. H. R. 4899 Making emergency supplemental appropriations for disaster relief and summer jobs for the fiscal year ending Sep- tember 30, 2010, and for other purposes. Referred to the Committee onllllllllll and ordered to be printed Ordered to lie on the table and to be printed AMENDMENTintended to be proposed by Mr. HATCH Viz: On page 81, between lines 22 and 23, insert the fol- 1 lowing: 2 PROHIBITION ON FRAUDULENT REPRESENTATION OF MILITARY SERVICE TO OBTAIN EMPLOYMENT OR OTHER BENEFITS 5 SEC. 3008. (a) CRIMINALOFFENSE.—Section 704 of 6 title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the 7 end the following new subsection: 8 ‘‘(c) FRAUDULENT REPRESENTATION OF MILITARY SERVICE OR AFFILIATION.—Whoever knowingly makes a fraudulent statement . . . 10 : Tues June 01 2010 Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) is attempting to amend the 2005 Stolen Honor Act, which criminalized false claims of military service, in order to seek False gain by fraud. Sen. Orrin Hatch’s (R-Utah) bill would make it illegal to air misleading public statements about anyone’s military service or the service of another ... Hatch's amendment defines an offender as "whoever knowingly makes a fraudulent statement or representation, verbally or in writing, regarding the military service of any citizen of the United States vis-a-vis service in the United States Armed Forces, including but not limited to, participation in combat operations, or affiliation with United States Armed Forces, for the purpose of gaining recognition, honorarium, official office or titles, a position of authority, or any other fraudulent purpose seeking gain or recognition or recompense." [edit] Sen Hatch's bill has strong support from a cross section of the American public and organisations. Sen Hatch's bill would cover instances of fraudulent assertions of military service occurring on the internet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 702 703 704 705 706 707 708 709 710 711 712 Next Page 707 of 2568 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. 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skyjack71 0 #17664 May 30, 2010 That was an excellent rebuttal to Blevins. But, then I don't count. It is a given that Galen chases certain things and uses things that do NOT fit the pattern as we know it. Blevins can't get his details correct - note that early on Blevins was at Sluggo's site - I made a comment in this forum that Blevin's needed to get his FACTs correct before trying to write a book. He had made a statement about a note being given to Tina Mucklow - and we all know it was Florence Shaffner. He must have gotten the message because he finally got it right. I don't agree with Blevins on his accounting and I also have problems with Cook (of course I would they aren't writing about Weber). Every book done on Cooper does the same thing - change facts or dress the truth...the only accepted "factual accountings" ever written into books are Tosaws and Himmelsachs - BUT, how much of their stories are also dressed to make for better reading. There will never be factual book about Cooper because the FBI has never made their files available to the public - and sometimes I think the FBI files will read like the different books -depending on the agent making the report. The truth just keeps changing every time someone writes a book - and NO book is going to be successful until the writer can prove his subject was Cooper. Even the FBI's own site used literary licensing. Too many writers and too many stories and the public looses interest...that is one way to make Cooper go away! Good thing Blevins made his book free - I wouldn't have paid for it. Blevins has NO idea where Tina is and I do not believe he ever talked to her....but that is just Jo talking - she is crazy and delusional - she claims she talked to Tina yrs ago. Now we know I am crazy - I am talking to and about myself!If someone actually held proof their subject was Cooper - that individual and the public will never know! Why? Because we don't know what is in a 38 yr old FBI file. After 38 yrs - an individual who could identify an item that might put a subject on the plane are either dead or have age or trauma induce memory loss![ Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #17665 May 30, 2010 Along these lines, I had a brief conversation with Lt. Ray Luney of the San Mateo County Sheriff's Department today, and he told me a packet of court documents is on its way to me. He confirmed that Burnworth had been arrested, but "not for anything having to do with airplanes." The arrest was for a contempt of court citation, and I presume it has to do with taking his kids out of the country. When I get the details, I'll post a comprehensive view of what happened with Donny B. This is about what I suspected, and previously posted. That leaves one to wonder what Mr. X, Burnworth, and Galen Cook are up to. On the other hand children often build myths for missing or deficient significant others - Don't be too surprised if the myth continues. Don't be surprised either if someday the FBI surfaces to say the Burnworth story was not true. The Janet story may be a horse of a different shade. Where there is one witness, there are potentially two (or more), or at least the rumor of another witness. The rumor was communicated in a church circle in Vancouver in 1972. The rumor may have made its way to Portland or even began in Portland for all I know. Janet may be the source of it all - I literally don't know (in spite of spending hours on the phone trying in vain to recover the rumor and people who heard it and passed it along). If nothing else, the rumor was real and passed on. A number of people eventually heard the rumor. I have no idea what Janet's church affiliation was, (if any), but I would very much like to know! I communicated part of this to Sluggo some time ago. Beyond this, there isn't much I want to say right now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SKYWHUFFO 1 #17666 May 30, 2010 Hey Sluggo! The Indy 500 has just finished, I guess it's time to watch the b-team race, the Coca-Cola somthing-er other? HA! Happy Memorial Day all! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sluggo_Monster 0 #17667 May 30, 2010 Ohhhhhhhhh! Don't make me hurt you! Mess with me and you'll get Biffle-ated! Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #17668 May 31, 2010 Regarding Burnworth and the Report from San Mateo: Bruce said: QuoteThis is about what I suspected, and previously posted. That leaves one to wonder what Mr. X, Burnworth, and Galen Cook are up to. On the other hand children often build myths for missing or deficient significant others - Bruce - I have to agree. Since Burnworth didn't check out - it could have been "planted" information to see if anyone would take the "bait". There have been worse things done in the Cooper research and efforts to discredit others in search of Cooper. It was known by Cook and others that I was looking for a SLC pilot - and one was provided with a background that could have crossed with that of Weber...I never made an attempt to contact Burnworth, but it was worth the effort regardless of the results. I was curious about him because of the life style and his being a SLC pilot. Maybe the lead was sincere and maybe it was a cast off others did not think significant - only time will tell. What surpised me was the eagerness of his daughter and I got the drift from your posting of the conversation that she thought her father was Cooper or did I miss read that. This did NOT correspond with the conversation you had with her father as he said he didn't know who Cooper was. The motive Burnworth gave for the Cooper Set-up was WAY OUT - I didn't buy that at all....that is when "No Way" started flashing for me. The stated motive was a "Red Light".Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BruceSmith 3 #17669 May 31, 2010 Interview with Robert Blevins, author of: “Into the Blast, The True Story of DB Cooper” I spoke with Robert Blevins for about 20-30 minutes on the Memorial Day Weekend, 2010. Robert seemed to be guarded, initially. His first words to me were: “It’s okay with me if you tape this.” That mind-set had been revealed earlier when I read his web site and learned of his efforts to achieve absolute security when he conducted his interviews and wrote his book. He was afraid that the FBI would take all of his notes and shut down his project. However, over time, my conversation with Robert warmed up, but the initial stages were filled with many pauses. Overall, Robert Blevins has only a modest understanding of the DB Cooper case. In fact, he has very little knowledge of much of what is in the book, and as a result he is unable to expand or explain in greater detail many elements of the book. Frequently, when I asked a question, Robert would say, “Oh, Skipp Porteous knows that – he did the interview.” In reality, Robert was more like an editor of Porteous’ transcripts than a writer in the customary sense of the word. However, he did conduct a few interviews on his own, primarily with the Mike, Dawn and Katie characters, and the current owners of the former Christianson property in Bonney Lake, WA. Apparently, Porteous, a private investigator in New York City, did copious amounts of investigatory work to find all these people and their addresses, and to verify corroborative information, such as determining the various owners of the Christianson property in Bonney Lake and obtaining the details regarding the bag of $2,000 in 20s found in a stump pile. When I asked if I could interview these individuals, Robert gave a curious answer. He told me that the characters had indicated to him that they would be open to the idea of speaking with other researchers and journalists, but he said that he wanted to protect them and would not release their contact information. He said he wanted to spare them the “onslaught” or words to that effect. Nevertheless, I asked him to pass on my contact information to them along with my invitation to call me, and he said he would. Robert also said that he and Porteous did not speak directly with Tina Mucklow, and only communicated with a “family intermediary.” He said that Tina was unable to speak with journalists and researchers because it would be “too upsetting.” Nevertheless, he characterized Tina’s health and well-being as “fine.” He also said that she “has a normal life – family and kids and all that.” Indicative of Robert’s paucity of knowledge in the DB Cooper case, Robert was surprised to learn that Tina had been in a convent for 12 years. He had thought the stories of Tina being a nun were false. Robert also does not seem to have any substantive knowledge of the works of Calame, Tosaw or Himmelsbach, and seemed unfamiliar with information provided by Captain Bohan on the wind speed and direction, and other similar details pertaining to the flight path and jump. Robert also seemed very comfortable with what he considers the FBI’s officially stated metrics on weather, wind speed and direction, and does not appear eager to entertain conflicting information, even if it comes from a former FBI official. However, Robert is very familiar with Richard McCoy’s age of 29 in 1971, and spoke with incredulity about how the FBI could consider a suspect so wildly out of the reported age range of “mid-to-late forties.” As for the book’s statement that Captain Scott left the cockpit and sat next to Cooper to ascertain the reality of the bomb, Robert said that he got that from Porteous, who got it from Bill Rataczak in a taped phone conversation. Robert has not visited or communicated with Florence Schaffner, nor has Skipp, apparently, yet, although Robert said Porteous would in the future. Robert says they are comfortable with the information provided by Geoff Gray in his New York Magazine piece, where Florence says the picture Gray showed her of Christianson is the closest she has seen, yet, of DB Cooper. Robert does not have a DNA profile of Kenny Christianson. In addition, he claimed that the FBI doesn’t have any viable DNA samples of DB Cooper, stating that the Bourbon cup and the cigarette butts were mis-handled too severely to provide a viable sample of genetic material. Robert said he got this information from Skipp. When asked why the FBI ruled out Christianson, Robert said it was because of disparities in the height and eye color. Robert told me that Kenny’s driver’s license says that KC was 5’8” and 170 pounds, with hazel eyes, “whatever color that is,” added Robert. Later, though, Robert characterized Kenny as “lying” on his driver’s license, adding, “I don’t know why he would lie.” Robert said that Kenny was taller than 5’8” and probably closer to six-foot tall, based on two pictures. One, taken with his father, Kenny stands an inch taller than his 5’11” dad. Also, in the picture of Kenny walking in the doorway of his home a few days after the skyjacking with a briefcase and paper sack, Robert says the measurements of the door frame and the placement of Kenny in the picture show him to be “about six-feet tall.” Robert says he has verified this by measuring the actual door frame. Robert also provided some original and interesting information. He said that Kenny Christianson worked for Northwest Orient Airlines, part-time, until 1993. Further, the Christianson family seems circumspect about the possibility of Kenny being DB Cooper. “Some don’t care, others are embarrassed,” said Robert. Robert also said the free PDF version of “Into the Blast” will be “around for awhile.” He spoke convincingly that his work is about finding the truth. “It’s not about the money at all. It’s about the truth.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #17670 June 1, 2010 Quote Janet, who was in the passenger seat, looked up just as the car was backing out of the driveway and saw a light pass overhead. A platform or ladder below a plane caught her eye. WE CAN'T have it both ways! Which is it. Reports say the weather was shitty, clouds and Cooper could not see the ground except for breaks in the clouds here and there. Now this lady stated she could see the steps at 10-12K at night while setting in a Datson and see the flares leave the plane. I throw the BS flag, but the problem is which is truth and which is fiction???? HHHMMMM!!!??!?!?!? anyone concour???? I haven't been keeping up with this thread the way I used to, but I have to chime in here. BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There's no way she could have been able to pick out a person standing on the lowered rear stairs from 10k. I spend way too much time looking up at a Cessna 182 at 10,000 feet. With years of practice, under optimum conditions, I can tell when the door is opened (hinged at the top, the inside of the door is black, the bottom of the wing is white). The inexperienced spectators need to be guided to the plane (I bring them under the opened hangar door and use it as a reference) and they often refuse to believe that I can see that the door is opened. At night, in cloudy weather, with a darkened cabin... With little or no experience looking for opened doors on planes. Yeah, riiiiiight."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 22 #17671 June 1, 2010 from my post about 3 pages back: ************ "What I saw was flames and thought I saw something on the platform which could have been a person," Janet said. I say NO WAY on the accuracy Janet's alleged sighting of a "platform, ladder, person" or any other structural detail on the 727 that night. **************** Jumpers have a lot of experience looking at exits from jumpships. No jumper would give Janet's visual account of aircraft detail any credibility, especially given the altitude and conditions. Her flare trajectory account is a bit more interesting to me because she allegedly described an arcing descent path. That's what you would see and it's not intuitive to most non aviation people. The "flames" part makes no sense. A road flare would be seen as a bright red point source of light. 66.6 % of Janet's story appears to be BS... hmmmm. What are the chances the rest is true? 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #17672 June 1, 2010 Quote Quote Janet, who was in the passenger seat, looked up just as the car was backing out of the driveway and saw a light pass overhead. A platform or ladder below a plane caught her eye. WE CAN'T have it both ways! Which is it. Reports say the weather was shitty, clouds and Cooper could not see the ground except for breaks in the clouds here and there. Now this lady stated she could see the steps at 10-12K at night while setting in a Datson and see the flares leave the plane. I throw the BS flag, but the problem is which is truth and which is fiction???? HHHMMMM!!!??!?!?!? anyone concour???? I haven't been keeping up with this thread the way I used to, but I have to chime in here. BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There's no way she could have been able to pick out a person standing on the lowered rear stairs from 10k. I spend way too much time looking up at a Cessna 182 at 10,000 feet. With years of practice, under optimum conditions, I can tell when the door is opened (hinged at the top, the inside of the door is black, the bottom of the wing is white). The inexperienced spectators need to be guided to the plane (I bring them under the opened hangar door and use it as a reference) and they often refuse to believe that I can see that the door is opened. At night, in cloudy weather, with a darkened cabin... With little or no experience looking for opened doors on planes. Yeah, riiiiiight. The physics supports you. again from several pages back: " The physical facts of human vision remain the same, regardless of anyone's story: * Angular resolution: about 0.02°-0.03°), which corresponds to 30–60 cm at a 1 km distance = 0.625mi = 3300ft. Translated this means that people with normal vision can usually resolve objects no closer apart than 30-60cm (1-2 feet) at a distance of 3300 feet or 1 km. (see Wiki Vision Acuity; other sources convey the same standard data on human vision)." attached - [a camera may be considered a perfect eye] [edit] The problem is: the physics requires Jan's report was of a plane below 10,000 feet and more likely 2500 feet or less. And secondly, Jan's was not the only report of this kind which surfaced by 1972. That is documented fact. Stories like Jan's are of the type which one might expect after a highly publicised hijacking of this nature (in your own back yard). Lots of Washingtons and Oregonians surfaced with all kinds of "stories" and "claims" following the highjacking. Obviously not all made into the news. Jan's apparently didnt. Norma's didnt. Emma's didnt. Evene a few LE people surfaced with stories .... all of which proves, we have only scratched the surface of the Cooper hijacking. Imagine for one moment the catalog of stories and anecdotes LE and the FBI could tell! They could write a book! (did I say that again?) [edit] one story I want to hear more about is the story from the woman in Washington who said 'they all listened to flight #305 on their radio'. Finally distance and interferenece washed out the signal. This story was mentioned in this forum, once long ago. The story involves multiple witnesses some of whom may still be alive. maybe they belonged to Emma's church group too!Meanwhile, the "Coopre researchers and book writers" (whoever ithey are!) would have you believe there is some some secret information or some edge on this case only they have, and never mind the thousands of people from professionals to lay-people who actually had some real part of this case, unimagined and real as it actually happened. Why in that context was Cooper never found? Why did the man pick the name Cooper? What was the real flight path and drop zone? How did the money get to Tina Bar? The Cooper hijacking happened in the real world. I think its time to start reminding ourselves of that small fact in order to avoid more of the same old unproductive nonsense people have dispensing and trying to sell ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #17673 June 1, 2010 Quote Why in that context was Cooper never found? Because he actually got away and he was an unknown as far as jumpers are concerned. The composite was off and the media in the East and South did not make it front page news. Quote Why did the man pick the name Cooper? Starts to say D, but then stops short and looks down at his cigarettes with the Coupon on the page and says Cooooper. Does there really have to be a REASON for his using that name? Does it really have to have a connection. Perhaps it was just a name he made up with no meaning to it what so ever. Quote What was the real flight path and drop zone? You guys are the specialist on that. Quote How did the money get to Tina Bar? When he went back to retrive the money he had buried - some of it was too damaged so he threw it into the Columbia - behind the Red Lion Inn in Vancover and with a grin on his face watched the evidence go down the river. ***The Cooper hijacking happened in the real world. I think its time to start reminding ourselves of that small fact in order to avoid more of the same old unproductive nonsense people are dispensing and trying to sell ...[/quote I guess I fall in the dispensing category - sure don't fall in the trying to sell. Sorry Georger the whole time. I just couldn't help myself, but you are right - those are simple question and none of them addressl PS. WHY doesn't someone post a picture of a plane 2000 ft, and 3000 ft and so forth - surely such pictures exist in this arena of skydivers. Surely there are many examples of such within this forum taken from the ground. Be interesting to see even though they would be on sunny clear days - but it might help some of us determine just how much could an individual on the ground actually see on that night. Perhaps a picture of a 727 could be simulated at the various elevations - would be an interesting thing to see just how much detail could be seen at all of the possible elevations.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #17674 June 2, 2010 Today I was bored and did something I have NEVER done. I went to Sluggo's site and viewed the media articles he had. Something I never wanted to do was to contaminate my memory by reading about other skyjackings...and did little research in that manner other than McCoy and Coffelt. ( I have never read the book written about McCoy). My research has been trying to validate the past of one Duane L. Weber. I was disappointed because a news video had been removed...and wondered what Sluggo meant by "only thing on the plane shredded". Was that referring to the aft stair well? Some of you I am sure viewed it when it was available. Reading all of the various articles about prior skyjackings - I think I did the right thing by NOT doing this several yrs ago...Seriously...it was a good thing - my not being exposed to the information about prior skyjackings. A few of the Cooper articles I had read - but isolated myself from articles about prior skyjackings - to avoid faulting my memories. Now I am glad I did. (A couple of them I had read before because they had been sent to me or I accidentally stumbled into them). Sluggo asked if anyone spotted the myths and facts. The fact vesus myth thing regarding the Skyjacking was happening way back then - so I ask this question. IS part of WHAT we think or know as FACT a reporting error or incorrect information (the creation of a Myth) that made it into the FACT category during the past 37 plus yrs? Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #17675 June 2, 2010 Senator Orin Hatch of Utah today proposed as follows: AMENDMENT NO.llll TO STOLEN HONOR ACT Calendar No.lll Purpose: To prohibit the fraudulent representation of military service to obtain employment or other benefits. IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES—111th Cong., 2d Sess. H. R. 4899 Making emergency supplemental appropriations for disaster relief and summer jobs for the fiscal year ending Sep- tember 30, 2010, and for other purposes. Referred to the Committee onllllllllll and ordered to be printed Ordered to lie on the table and to be printed AMENDMENTintended to be proposed by Mr. HATCH Viz: On page 81, between lines 22 and 23, insert the fol- 1 lowing: 2 PROHIBITION ON FRAUDULENT REPRESENTATION OF MILITARY SERVICE TO OBTAIN EMPLOYMENT OR OTHER BENEFITS 5 SEC. 3008. (a) CRIMINALOFFENSE.—Section 704 of 6 title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the 7 end the following new subsection: 8 ‘‘(c) FRAUDULENT REPRESENTATION OF MILITARY SERVICE OR AFFILIATION.—Whoever knowingly makes a fraudulent statement . . . 10 : Tues June 01 2010 Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) is attempting to amend the 2005 Stolen Honor Act, which criminalized false claims of military service, in order to seek False gain by fraud. Sen. Orrin Hatch’s (R-Utah) bill would make it illegal to air misleading public statements about anyone’s military service or the service of another ... Hatch's amendment defines an offender as "whoever knowingly makes a fraudulent statement or representation, verbally or in writing, regarding the military service of any citizen of the United States vis-a-vis service in the United States Armed Forces, including but not limited to, participation in combat operations, or affiliation with United States Armed Forces, for the purpose of gaining recognition, honorarium, official office or titles, a position of authority, or any other fraudulent purpose seeking gain or recognition or recompense." [edit] Sen Hatch's bill has strong support from a cross section of the American public and organisations. Sen Hatch's bill would cover instances of fraudulent assertions of military service occurring on the internet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
