DB Cooper

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

1971 PDX VORTAC = 2010 BTG VORTAC

In 1971, "Miles west of PDX" refers to PDX VORTAC or PDX Airport?

I still do NOT understand West of Portland - No reports in 1971 put that plane West of Portland.
After 35 yrs seems like some people are suddenly claiming this, but why didn't they come forward in 1971?


NOTE NEWS ARTICLE

Lessons from Failed Cold War Spy Mission in China:

Washington AP had an interesting article in the new today regarding the "CIA coming to grips with one of the most devastating episodes in its history, a botched cloak and dagger flight into China that stole 2 decades of freedom from a pair of fresh-faced American operatives".

This happened in 1952.
The mission was "smotherered in U.S. Government denials, sealed in official secrecy and consigned to the darkest corner of the spy agency's vault of unpleasant affairs".

"Bits and pieces of the story surfaced over the yrs, but the lid was intact until a series of disclosures - some required of the CIA , some not- revealed a tale of tragedy, miscalculation, misery and personal tripumph, as well as the agency's misplaced confidence it could manipulate events in China".

This was "declassified by the CIA 3 yrs ago and the CIA (HIRED) a filmmaker to produce a documentary". The CIA does not plan to release the fim publicly, but it was premiered for the employees at it Langley, Va. headquarters with an AP reporter in attendance.

I just took some quotes from the article because I have not learned how you get an url on an AP Washington new item. There is no name of the reporter on this article.

This article was in the June 20, 2010 Dailey News out of Ft.Walton. This was declassified about 3 yrs ago in 2007, but it happened in 1952. IT took our Government 55 yrs to come clean. We are only into the 38 th yr of the only Unsolved Skyjacking in US history...why records I tried to obtain about 3 yrs ago have been sealed until 2038.

I guess 50 plus yrs is the NORMAL on these things - so that most if not all participants have deceased. The information I was requested access to was NOT about the 1971 skyjacking...but a request to view pictures that were available until the FBI found out Jo Weber wanted to get into this picture archive. It was immediately closed until 2038. You had to make application to view this file in Washington, D.C. --- my mistake was saying a damn word to the FBI or to anyone about what I wanted to do and what I was looking for.

There was also a documentary - a very rare film that was shown publically only one time - when I tried to get a copy of it - POOF - it was NOT available. In the doumentary I saw briefly someone I believed was Duane Weber - and was sure I was just seeing things. I just happened to be watching TV and the subject matter interested me, because it was something Duane had talked about....things he told me, but always like it was about someone else.

I still think we chased the wrong Bradon......

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

I have enjoyed being here and hope that you guys have been sincere and that someone will pursue my search on my behalf when I can no longer do so.

Don't let the truth be buried. Don't let the government get away with this crime of subversion. If there is another world that looks down on this one - I will be there waiting - my soul will not rest until justice has been served.

What ever a soul is - each body is energy and that energy and thoughts have to go somewhere, don't they? Sorry this has been a bad day - so much coming at me so fast, Not able to absorb it all.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

All,


Today, I posted a new page on my web site (N467US.com). The page is called “Aeronautical Calculations (by Robert99).”

I am providing this space to Robert99 because I think the work he has done deserves an outlet that everyone interested in NORJAK can see. (Not just limited to the DZ.com posters and readers). However I am aware that the bulk of the discussions about his determinations will be conducted here on this forum and in this thread (assuming the thread survives). I think that is appropriate.

Robert has experience as a skydiver, pilot, and an aeronautical engineer, so, in my opinion, he certainly has enough credibility to garner the interest of those who are looking for answers in the NORJAK case.

Part1 of his “ANALYSIS of NWA 305 FLIGHT TRACK” went up today. As of this time he has 7 or 8 parts “in-the-can.” We have agreed to post them at regular intervals (about one per week) to allow time for discussion of the details without broadening the subject issues to the point of unmanageable discussions.

As I told Robert, I haven’t had the time to read the posts with map and transcript in hand so as to be able to comment on the validity of his assumptions and conclusions, but on the surface they appear to be “well considered”. My role as “librarian first, investigator second” dictates that I go ahead and start posting his work and then evaluate it when I have time. *

The standard disclaimer (opinions of author not N467US.com) appears on the page, but honestly, knowing how he approaches his work with immense attention to details, I find it hard to believe it could be anything but credible.

---

* Speaking of free time… I have accepted a position with Southern Nuclear Corporation, assigned to the Vogtle Units 3 & 4 Project. Assuming I pass the security screening, I hope to be reporting in the next few weeks. I will be located in Augusta, GA (at Augusta Technical College) for about the first year and then move to the plant-site near Waynesboro, GA when the Training Facility is built. Sugar will be staying at Plant Farley until she retires in about 2-years. This (house position) is the first time I have had a “real job” (not contract consulting) in over thirty years and I am looking forward to it.

It is an exciting project for me to be involved in at the end of my career. Vogtle 3 & 4 will be the first new construction of commercial nuclear plants (in the US) in over thirty years. The units are both Westinghouse AP1000s (the Westinghouse design of the Advanced Light Water Reactor (ALWR)). I will be developing the Health Physics Training Program.

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[airtwardo 7]

Congrats Sluggo~ sounds like an interesting chapter!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[377 22]

Quote

Vogtle 3 & 4 will be the first new construction of commercial nuclear plants (in the US) in over thirty years. The units are both Westinghouse AP1000s (the Westinghouse design of the Advanced Light Water Reactor (ALWR)). I will be developing the Health Physics Training Program.

Way to go SLUGGO!!! We are proud of ya man.

Keep the lizards out of the containment vessels, please. We dont need Godzilla messing with our efforts to cap that BP gusher.

On the other hand perhaps a trained mutant sea monster could be of great utility in mitigating that disaster. I think the hard part would be the "training" but hey, that's your specialty isn't it?

As for the security screening, youd better hope that they dont read this forum. You are associating with people who have close connections to the assassination of JFK, RFK and MLK, not to mention DBC.

Thanks for giving Robert99 some space on your site. I like his approach.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[SKYWHUFFO 1]

Congrats Sluggo! Don't let the FBI find those Danica Patrick race shirts in the back of your closet. You boys in GA don't mess around like that! HA! Hopefully it will keep you home on the 9 to 5 where you can post more info here and on your site as well. But on the flip side Sugar has had a LOT of time to hone that honey do list.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

If I had Danica Patrick Race Shirts they would be in my closet for sure. Not because I wouldn't want people to think I was a DP fan, but because I wouldn't want them to think I was an Indy-Car fan!
Actually, I think she is pretty talented (or pretty and talented). She returns to the Nationwide Series this week (at New Hampshire) and has about 3 or 4 more NNWS races before running the remainder of the season after the Indy-Car series shuts down.

Traditionally, females haven't had a chance in NASCAR because of (anti-female) bias among the drivers, but I think maybe DP can "hold her own." At least she has her head straight, not like Franchitti and other open-wheelers who tried their hand at NASCAR and failed miserably because they thought "driving a Taxi" couldn't possibly take any skill.

Only time will tell.

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[skyjack71 0]

Quote

It is an exciting project for me to be involved in at the end of my career. Vogtle 3 & 4 will be the first new construction of commercial nuclear plants (in the US) in over thirty years. The units are both Westinghouse AP1000s (the Westinghouse design of the Advanced Light Water Reactor (ALWR)). I will be developing the Health Physics Training Program.

Check your regular email as I have a NON Cooper related question that is personal in nature.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Hearth Physics = Radiological Hygine = Radiation Safety = Radiological Control

All these mean the same thing.

The mission of a Health Physicist, Health Physics Technologist, and/or Health Physics Technician is:
To protect the public, environment, and the worker (in order of importance) from the harmful effects of ionizing and non-ionizing radiation.

Commercial Nuclear Plants prefer the term "Health Physics." DoD, DOE, and NNSA sites prefer the term Radiological Control (RADCON).

Back to you soon with other request.

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[SKYWHUFFO 1]

as of this morning I have now completed my 4000 jump! 12K out of a grandcaravan ( no Jo that is not a minivan, it's an airplane ) pulled high and just floated and enjoyed the early morning, thought about my first jump, and paid a little tribute to friend who i have lost in the sport. So here is the question, we got Safecrackingplf hooked on the windtunnel, unfortunately, now we never hear from him again. I want to re challenge Sluggo and Georger to taste flight like we do. It will give your work a whole new prespective. come on everyone encourage these two to experience just once the feeling Cooper faced as he was under canopy minus the obstacles of course. come on Jerry get your Georger out the DDDDOOOOOOOOOORRRRRR!!!!!

[JerryThomas 0]

Skywhuffo.I'd love too I'd even pay for it.Geoger how about it,Ralph jumped one time .His comment was "What a rush" Sure it was a tandem jump but he still enjoyed it. Robert 99 glad to see you finally made it to the forum. I should have told you there was already a thread here . Quade Robert realy didn't know about the thread.Jerry Thomas

[georger 244]

Quote

Skywhuffo.I'd love too I'd even pay for it.Geoger how about it,Ralph jumped one time .His comment was "What a rush" Sure it was a tandem jump but he still enjoyed it. Robert 99 glad to see you finally made it to the forum. I should have told you there was already a thread here . Quade Robert realy didn't know about the thread.Jerry Thomas

I TAKE THAT PERSONALLY!
BIG CONGRATS SKYWHUFFO!!

Truth is I had a few jumps when I was young and that's enough for me. But I admire your pluck
and your enthusiasm. Keep up the great work.

G.

[georger 244]

Quote

Skywhuffo.I'd love too I'd even pay for it.Geoger how about it,Ralph jumped one time .His comment was "What a rush" Sure it was a tandem jump but he still enjoyed it. Robert 99 glad to see you finally made it to the forum. I should have told you there was already a thread here . Quade Robert realy didn't know about the thread.Jerry Thomas

Keep your opinions to yourself! I got busy
and didnt call last night ... still digging thru old files
but am going to break starting right now ...

[JerryThomas 0]

Geoger . I figured you probably had a hot date with a 21 year old waitress or something like that Or maybe delivering a calf. HaHa. Jerry

[JerryThomas 0]

SkyWuffo. Congrats. Must have been nice. Clean Air and all.Jerry

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

12K out of a grandcaravan ( no Jo that is not a minivan, it's an airplane

You saw that one coming.

the aviation communications tower as the HAT.

I thought maybe it was because they looked like a hat, but someone sent this to me and it is interesting enough to make a post with.


Aeronautical term:
HAT height above touchdown zone elevation

The height in feet of the decision height (DH) or minimum descent altitude (MDA) above the touchdown zone elevation (TDZE).

also called: height above touchdown (HAT) and height above touchdown zone.

To this Dumb Blonde that sounds like dumbo language, but WHY did Duane call it a HAT.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Way back when - 377 made this post in relation to something I had said.

377

Quote

Between a couple of his stays in multiple prisons he had the "opportunity" around 1962 to be in association with known Mafia out of Chicago and LA.
Through this association he learns how to sharpe shoot and jump - those yrs he remembers with remorse, but he has in 1971 a basic skill he is going to use.

New Information:
We DO now know of an association with such a man between 1962 and 1970...there were others, but this one can be proven.

----------------------------------

377

Quote

I've been skydiving for over four decades and have never heard even a rumor of Mafia involvement in any aspect of parachuting.

New Information:
Mafia is a broad term to me and I knew little about Mafia when I got involved in this. Yes, I still believe that Duane was an informant of some sort during the 60's who infiltrated various groups to obtain information. To what extent (unknown) - but his past is checkered with known contacts with such individuals.

I was actually involved unbeknowest to me in at least 2 transactions - which means he still had some contacts in 1979 and 1980 and 1981. This does NOT include the individuals who knew him only as John Collins when we resided in Mobile, AL in 1980 and 1981. Nor does this include others I met who were purported to have participated in certain political actions - some convicted for their actions.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[1969912 0]

Caravan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cessna.208b.n208nj.arp.jpg

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Skyjack71 said:

Quote

I always wondered why Duane referred to that thing up near Scrottons Corner - the aviation communications tower as the HAT.

Jo,


My wife (Sugar) refers to modern VORs (VORTACs) as “a Mexican Hat” because it is shaped like a sombrero. I would suspect it was the same for Duane.

One of the behaviors that you are criticized for (here and otherwise) is your tendency to ignore “Occam’s Razor” and substitute the more complex explanation for the simplest explanation.

Here are a few (from about 150) terms that HAT could be an acronym for:

Height Above Threshold
HEAT Asset Tracker
High Adventure Training
Health Advisory Team
Hazard Awareness Training
Horizontal Axis Turbine
Honor Among Thieves
High Adventure Team
Head Arms Trunk
HOORA Analysis Tool
Humid Air Turbine
Highveld Altitude Training
hearing assessment test
high ambient temperature
hydrogen atom transfer
Heavy Atom Transfer
Hunters Anglers Trappers
Hurricane Awareness Tour
Hazard Assessment Tool
High Altitude Test
Highway Advisory Telephone
Height Above Target
Hospital Arrival Time
Honeywell Alliant Techsystems
Hemispheric Air Temperature
Hazard Arrival Time

Any of these are just as likely and reasonable (?) as the one you are investigating (Height Above Touchdown).

Attached is a ground level photo of the BTG VORTAC (Formerly the PDX VORTAC).

Doesn’t it look like a sombrero?

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[377 22]

Congrats on 4000 jumps Skywhuffo! Aren't those HAHO jumps a refreshing change from burning up altitude at 120 mph plus? I've been jumping since 1968 and until recently had never pulled high. I like cruising around under canopy.

Georger a jumper? What other secrets is the modest Dr. concealing? Well in my book you are a skydiver Georger. Wish you'd tell us about your early jumps.

I really wish Jo would use Occams razor. She usually does exactly the opposite.

One good reason there has been no mafia involvement in skydiving is that there is no money in it. DZOs don't drive Ferraris or live in mansions, except for a few who got into drug running.

Georger, I will be operating QRP on Field Day from the northern coast of CA on Sat afternoon, mostly 40M. You?

We haven't heard from Orange in a while. How's life in SA during the World Cup?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[SKYWHUFFO 1]

At $25-30 bucks a jump nowadays, I am going to extend my airtime as much as possible. HA! It's a whole different world by yourself up there, a quiet you can't explain. So do you think Orange has bought one of those Damn World Cup horns? HA!

[georger 244]

Quote

Congrats on 4000 jumps Skywhuffo! Aren't those HAHO jumps a refreshing change from burning up altitude at 120 mph plus? I've been jumping since 1968 and until recently had never pulled high. I like cruising around under canopy.

Georger a jumper? What other secrets is the modest Dr. concealing? Well in my book you are a skydiver Georger. Wish you'd tell us about your early jumps.

I really wish Jo would use Occams razor. She usually does exactly the opposite.

One good reason there has been no mafia involvement in skydiving is that there is no money in it. DZOs don't drive Ferraris or live in mansions, except for a few who got into drug running.

Georger, I will be operating QRP on Field Day from the northern coast of CA on Sat afternoon, mostly 40M. You?

We haven't heard from Orange in a while. How's life in SA during the World Cup?

377

not sure what Im going to do on Field Day, probably family things going on but will look for you if I can. I thot about trying something from Pal-Dows Observatory but we have a brand new grandson
which takes priority. Sometime this year I want to get
the guys to run an op from Dows with a CAA or Rockwell card for it - will let you know. We have talked for years about this but never got down to
it -

later ...

[skyjack71 0]

Sluggo stated:

Quote

My wife (Sugar) refers to modern VORs (VORTACs) as “a Mexican Hat” because it is shaped like a sombrero. I would suspect it was the same for Duane.

One of the behaviors that you are criticized for (here and otherwise) is your tendency to ignore “Occam’s Razor” and substitute the more complex explanation for the simplest explanation.

I think I was VERY clear in the post that the definition for HAT was sent to me in the last few days. I am not SUBSTITUTING the more complex for the simplest explanation. I was providing this as just another explanation of what HAT meant.

As others have done - they present what they find and all I did was present what SOMEONE else derived from HAT. It is just simply another explanation and does not mean that I am looking for another meaning. I will reminded you that Duane told me it was called a Hat because some thought it looked like a Hat....

This definition WAS provided by someone from OREGON and cause to note HAT had other meanings. Since I am sure the party KNEW the VOR had been referred to as HAT, it was just another trivial piece of information and NO MORE trivial than other information presented by others over the yrs in this forum. There is often more than ONE explanation for everything.

Now, we have a man purporting the plane was WEST of Portland PDX - after 38 yrs? This RAZORS edge is pushed to limits with the eyewitness accounts provided in the early yrs that put the plane over Vancouver/Camas area and not WEST of the PDX. There were a couple of reports that put it on Target for the PDX.

If my memory serves me correctly there was another flight in the air right behind Cooper who complained about weather and was enroute to PDX - I do not remember the details about that other flight. How far behind it was and its exact route and destinations? DON't you think the other plane plays an important part in this chase?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

377 stated:

Quote

One good reason there has been no mafia involvement in skydiving is that there is no money in it. DZOs don't drive Ferraris or live in mansions, except for a few who got into drug running.

As I have said MAFIA is a broad term for me and encompasses CIA also and COVERTS. Within the realm of Duane's background we do know he had strong connections with certain individuals and these guys knew planes and survival jumping (NOT RECREATIONAL).

We also know he had connections with individuals who have been purported to be MAFIA or related to the Mafia through association. He worked for certain establishments OWNED by Mafia...but then they had their hands into lots of thing all across the country - right? With his background - How could you question his having Mafia connections on some level?

I have NOT said that Duane was Mafia...he could have been a server, a doorman, dishwasher or a janitor - any position that would allow him to over-hear even parts of conversations during the upheaval between, Mafia, Unions, CIA, Coverts and the general unrest of the 60's.

Duane was a criminal - but there is NOTHING violent within his records - not even resisting arrest. Used alias that even the FBI has not revealed - and this regards Jefferson. WHY did the FBI refuse to give me access to this file using the excuse I was not the widow of John Collins? All I was able to obtain was in public records. We do know that during the recorded time for John Collins being in prison - Duane Weber was in other places on 2 occassions.

Protective custody would explain the Commutation of sentence for John Collins - no one was looking for Duane Weber, but as soon as John Collins was released the FBI chased him all the way to Boulder, CO in 1968 -knocking on the door of his brother-in-law. A phone call is made and Duane Weber and his wife and 4 of her children flee to N.Orleans (abandoning a car with a continental kid along the way)and then to Mobile, AL and then Atlanta, GA and culminating with the Hijacking in 1971. What is he doing during these yrs - working as an insurance saleman under the name of Duane Weber? One company was known for its JM/WAVE connections (hence again Mafia).

Strange thing - he served at a banquet for Bob Hope while he was supposed to be in prison in Jefferson. This is just one of the traceable things. His wife said that while he was in Jefferson he spent several months in Solitary confinement...yet they commute him and he is a 5 time felon. Prior to his arrest in 1966 he had worked for an insurance company for a couple of years as John Collins...in the Mo. and Ks area...yet, they claimed to have purged their records - yet the FBI should be able to verify this with a simple SS search.

None of you can digest this information because you don't know some of the sordid details I do. Because I do know these details I was able to figure out a lot of Duane's past and what I found made me sick....some I cannot and will never discuss.

A man who could have participated knowingly in this could have and would have made that jump in 1971 and part of it was revenge and part of it was the prognosis regarding an illness he had been diagnosed with. If he was ever found out he was a dead man anyway - he had been promised things that were NOT provided and he could trust no one...he was refusing to live what he thought would be his last yrs in poverty and being afraid that around each corner there lurked someone who knew him...he was not able to continue to run and to hide.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Nice Pictures Jerry and I don't mean Thomas. Now I understand why you spend so much time in the field and with the cows. My brother and I did the same and he still does.

The two of you have met...but, what I want to know is how does any of your knowledge qualify you to make judgements on the money and time in the ground or on flight information. What qualifies you as someone who would be the GO-to-man regarding Cooper research and why you even have an interest in Cooper?

I would have preferred to have addressed this by PM, but since you don't receive PM's from me I had no choice except to state this in the forum. You know my regular email address and if you wish to address this there - please do so. That way it is NOT public.

.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber