DB Cooper

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Jo said:

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I did not feel using this as an example would cause a backlashe, as it would if I used faulty information other posters have done. You came back to admitted your own error.

No backlash… no need for backlash… I always admit my errors (when I discover they are an error).

You see, for me, it’s not about being right, or clever, or skilled, or the Alpha-Dog… it’s about solving the mystery. Nothing more… Nothing less.

I think Robert Blevins theories and approaches to solving NORJAK are ridiculous, but if he every produced (even one) shred of evidence that he knew what he was talking about… I’d be behind him 100%. I would be wrong, he would be right, and the mystery would be solved.

I gather the data, plot ALL the points, and then fit a curve to the points… you (and many others) plot the curve, then accept the data points that fit along the curve, and reject all others.

I hope you are feeling better (I mean that sincerely).

---

BTW:

Here are two articles by Blevins. I’m amazed that in all of his and Skipp’s research (?) they haven’t discovered that there is no statute of limitations on NORJAK.

Part 1

and

Part 2

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[Sluggo_Monster 0]

More in-fighting between Cook and Blevins...

Go here to see post from Galen Cook on 7/2/2010 4:58 PM.

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[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

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Now THAT'S funny!!

Oh my GOD!!

Someone finally came up with the proper response to an EPBA (Emergency Pancake Bunny Alert - search the phrase if you want to find out how it started).

The COOKIE BUNNY

'Twardo - I think he was saying that at that location, at that time of the year, using the sun as a navigation reference would suck.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[skyjack71 0]

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More in-fighting between Cook and Blevins...

Go here to see post from Galen Cook on 7/2/2010 4:58 PM.

Absolutely amazing. I only read a portion of the Blevins book and then decided I didn't want my mind poisoned (no the truth is I couldn't down load but 38 pages of it).

Sluggo - I have something VERY interesting to tell you - it did not seem important until I read Blevins story - This is something we have proof of and picture of but did not understand the significance of it. (One of my guys found this). I don't have the information in front of me and I am sure he would not want me to make it public...he spent a lot of money and time trying to chase it down - but, it was all a matter of having the right names to use. You will find this interesting.

I have to check with my guy to see if he wants to share this but I am sure he will not want to go public with it .... but what I found odd was Blevins mention of this particular subject and I had NOT read that until just now. I am getting ready to put a phone call into my guy and see what he thinks. I am sure he would rather talk by phone rather than thru an email (because he spent lots of money chasing this one particular thing).

He is going to have to be assured by you to keep it confidential. Your call - I don't know if the cell phone I have is current.

I am logging off to put a call into him...now.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Orange1 0]

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I gather the data, plot ALL the points, and then fit a curve to the points… you (and many others) plot the curve, then accept the data points that fit along the curve, and reject all others.

Now, this is the approach I agree with. Something I work with a lot in my daily work as well. Of course, sometimes you spend a lot of time gathering data, testing hypotheses and ... nothing of significance comes up. The theory is not supported by empirical evidence. In economics, in science you have to accept that and let go and look for what does work. Here, on the other hand, there seem to be people who think that because they have spent time gathering data it "has" to mean something. That's when they try force the data to fit the theory.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[JerryThomas 0]

Orange 1. This is not directed to you, or anyone else. How ever I now realize why I am glad I do not live in south africa. Because if you do or if you post on a web site owned by south africa you can be sensored. It reminds me of when I was in Viet Nam and my leters were sensered.Quade are you a US citizen Or not . Explain. Jerry

[quade 4]

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It reminds me of when I was in Viet Nam and my leters were sensered.Quade are you a US citizen Or not . Explain. Jerry

Jerry,

What the flip are you going on about?

Are you implying I've censored something? I haven't. In fact, I go out of my way to ensure people can express themselves.

Am I a US citizen? What kind of a flippin', bullshit, insulting, NAZI, "show me your papers" question is that?

BTW, if you can't tell from the subtle subtext of the last sentence; yes, I'm a US Citizen. Born here as were several generations of my relatives going back to the time before there was a US (or so I've always been lead to believe).

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[skyjack71 0]

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I think Robert Blevins theories and approaches to solving NORJAK are ridiculous, but if he every produced (even one) shred of evidence that he knew what he was talking about… I’d be behind him 100%. I would be wrong, he would be right, and the mystery would be solved.

I read the interview with Scott Butki and if you guys think I am looney - check out Blevins.

1. Blevins talks about this guy Watson, but never distinguishes if that is his real name of the fictious name assigned.

2. Now we got Christiansen wearing a toupee - but in 1971 the toupee available unless it had bangs was VERY OBVIOUS.

3. The statue of Limitations has expired???? Blevins can write anyting he wants, but one has to wonder if he can read.

4. This Watson claims he wasn't good friends with Christiansen and Blevins claims Christiansen was the best man for Watson in 1968.

5. Second Edition! - what the (I won't say it) but I sure was thinking it.

6. He mailed a copy of the book with large pictures of Christiansen....if he thinks he has Tina's address - he is mistaken and even I would never have done that (boy, did I think about it - but used better judgement than to impose pics on someone who did not grant permission).

7. He even threw in the Dan Cooper Comic - and all of you know that idea was born on this thread. Forgot who gave birth to that one - I think Snowmman did.

8. Shaffners hand shakes - did he interview her? I know others who did interview her and her hand did not shake.

9. Blevins knocks Galen Cook regarding the Janet article, but Blevins is off base on so many of the factual things - it is absurd.

10. Blevins trys to cover his ass - by including a little tidbit fed to him by a second party, but he even got that wrong. (SAVE that one for LATER).

Lesson on number 10 - Know your enemies. A tidbit was passed by a second party and Blevins did a CYA.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

Jerry wrote:

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It reminds me of when I was in Viet Nam and my leters were sensered.Quade are you a US citizen Or not . Explain. Jerry

Anyone who thinks the Internet in the US is free from government monitoring and intervention needs to read this.

http://www.google.com/search?q=eff+FBI+social+networks&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

Some folks who need total security in their data comms have used obsolete spread spectrum radio modems originally used for the Ricochet wireless Internet service. They can easily be configured to ping each other and automatically form ad hoc networks. Range between modems can be several miles if you have line of sight. Ever wonder why these modems still sell on eBay even though the Ricochet ISP is defunct? Now you know.

Censorship is often exercised in moderation because it indicates that surveillance exists.

C4, dirty nuke, secret service radio frequencies, municipal water supply, shaped charge, GPS spoofing, UAV satellite control uplinks, isotope separation, breeder reactor. Test 123. Exercise complete.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Jerry wrote:

Quote

It reminds me of when I was in Viet Nam and my leters were sensered.Quade are you a US citizen Or not . Explain. Jerry

Anyone who thinks the Internet in the US is free from government monitoring and intervention needs to read this.

http://www.google.com/search?q=eff+FBI+social+networks&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

Some folks who need total security in their data comms have used obsolete spread spectrum radio modems originally used for the Ricochet wireless Internet service. They can easily be configured to ping each other and automatically form ad hoc networks. Range between modems can be several miles if you have line of sight. Ever wonder why these modems still sell on eBay even though the Ricochet ISP is defunct? Now you know.

Censorship is often exercised in moderation because it indicates that surveillance exists.

C4, dirty nuke, secret service radio frequencies, municipal water supply, shaped charge, GPS spoofing, UAV satellite control uplinks, isotope separation, breeder reactor. Test 123. Exercise complete.

377

I think Jerry is confusing South Africa with China. I also think he is simply not understanding what Quade, over the course of a few posts, has been trying to get across. I also think he does not understand that "freedom" includes the freedom to run your business the way you see fit (including having forums on a website you own being moderated) as long as it does not contravene any alws. Finally, I find it strange that he protests "censorship" when he himself has proposed doing exactly that by wanting to prevent some other people posting!

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Orange1 said:

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Finally, I find it strange that he protests "censorship" when he himself has proposed doing exactly that by wanting to prevent some other people posting!

Hmmmmm......

A progression of emotions (emoticons).

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[Sluggo_Monster 0]

All,


A busy day for me today… I’m behind on yard-work (I was traveling all last week) and the high today will only be in the mid-nineties (as opposed to the three-digit temperatures we had two-weeks ago). But, I wanted to get some updates posted (on my web-site).

I put up Robert99’s NWA FLIGHT TRACK ANALYSIS - Part 3 this morning. I’m a little puzzled that there hasn’t been more discussion about his calculations, I thought his posts would stir-up some high-quality conversations about the “structure” of the flight-path. Oh well!

Also, the “Author Wars” continue with a couple more responses to my blog. See: Sluggo wrote @ 7/2/2010 7:12 PM.

I have been thinking about Jo a bunch this morning. I would give anything if she would drop this Duane was Cooper quest in favor of peeling back the layers of Duane’s life she discovered while researching his background. If I wasn’t so wrapped-up in NORJAK, I would consider digging into Duane’s past (with her help and permission, of course) with the goal of writing a book about an incredible life of crime and subversion. Many on this thread have stated (something like); “Duane was just a petty criminal, who wasn’t even good at it”. I beg to differ… I think Mr. John C. Collins (Duane Weber) was involved in some pretty strange stuff, stuff that is (at least) interesting if not historically significant.

Well… that’s my two-cents worth, I need to get outside.

If you are an American…
Happy Independence Day, I hope all of us take time to reflect what it means and where it has taken us. If you are now serving in the military (or have served), THANK YOU (and your families) FOR YOUR SERVICE.

If you aren’t American…
Indulge us and our arrogance for today… you see… we think are convinced we deserve it!

---

07/04/2010 @ 13:05 EDT: Edited to fix broken link.

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[Farflung 0]

I'm at a loss to see where there is room for much in the way of discussion about the flight path.

It has already been shown that Flight 305 was on center line within 4 NM and at reporting points within 2 minutes. Winds aloft were around 25 to 30 knots, on and on.

Then there are those that 'believe' the plane was off course as far as XX NM either side of center line V-23 or that they did not use V-23 at all. Attribution, if it exists, is inside information or the product of data points cherry picked to match a pre-selected curve.

The transcripts are of little value since they record ransom demands of $200,000 when it is well known that $400,000 was heard by a teenage girl at Shady Acres. Additionally, Cooper was an expert aviator that was able to 'steer' the crew to the perfect jump point since he was a pilot capable of flying a DC-7 out of Dutch Harbor, Unalaska, AK.

The blanched story of the plane actually following a standard airway at speeds around 170 knots is simply too banal. They were given "all the space they want" when flying to Reno. The government had the transcripts edited to appear as if it flew V-23. It was standard procedure to circumnavigate major cities during hijackings. Winds around Portland were hurricane force.

You already pointed out that there are those who cobble a curve they find attractive then proceed to stuff that curve with selected data points. Right.

Those that believe Cooper was a super secret, triple agent will latch with a death grip on any person who was in paratrooper training. Then go on to use this painfully authenticated data point as proof that this must be Cooper.

If you want a data point that indicates Cooper having been to paratrooper training from Cooper's actions or statements you would be given a wave file of cricket chirps.

Same for anything indicating jump training, flight training or systems knowledge.

But the existing culture has placed a deep seated belief that Cooper was clearly, obviously and self evidently extensively trained in all three. This again without the benefit of any exemplar or source but with copious quantities of blind, sophomoric faith.

Now that Cooper is capable of defying the laws of physics without challenge, let alone unbridled outrage at any such suggestion, the desire for a quality discussion appears anachronistic when placed in the most sanguine of lights.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Farflung,

Good one! I must admit… you had me going for a minute (I flashed anger, an uncharacteristic response for me). Then I “got it.”

Man you are a very cynical (where’s my damned “cynical emoticon”?) person.

Try this… think of the world as a beautiful place. Something like the Garden of Eden (except with a subway and interstate highways). (Where’s my “simile emoticon”?) Smell the flowers, see the butterflies and rainbows.

Realize that everyone you meet is altruistic, loves you, and wants this paradise to be an even better place. Rid yourself of suspicion, fear and apprehension for those feelings are vexations to your spirit.

Those narrow-minded, troglodytic, pea-brained, pathetic, (Where’s my “pathos emoticon”?) and dull “Cooper Researchers” posting to this thread are just speed-bumps (Where’s my “metaphor emoticon”?) on your journey to better understanding. (i.e. understanding understanding) (Where’ my “redundancy emoticon”?)

And BTW:

What the hell is wrong with “blind, sophomoric faith”?

I dated a girl in high-school named Faith, and yes, she was blind, and a sophomore! So what’s wrong with that… Mr. Cynic?

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[airtwardo 7]

I dated a girl in high-school named Faith, and yes, she was blind, and a sophomore!

Did she by chance, ever loan out her Ray Charles sunglasses to a "skydiver/pilot/aircraft mechanic/secret agent" guy?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[377 22]

Farflung wrote:

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Now that Cooper is capable of defying the laws of physics without challenge,

Hold on, we never went so far as saying he jumped chuteless.

DBC beat the law, but not the ones Newton studied.

Occam likes V 23.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Farflung 0]

I once asked "Other than wearing a parachute, what did Cooper say or do to indicate any experience?"

The best (and only) response I received was roughly, 'Well, he didn't just jump without any training, duh.. chah.. gah as if.' That's my rough recall of the exchange .

Next was to use the skyjacker who jumped with no training and actually made it home sans the cash as a case study of successful incompetence.

That was that. Cooper had jump training cause for shure, like he would have to dude and stuff, so yeah.

Challenging the premise that Cooper was other than a thoroughly trained and gifted jumper with a Special Ops background was on par with farting in church. Nothing cynical, just the product of numerous observations.

The flight path presently being analyzed will be met (yet again) with proclamations of the plane actually being 22 NM east of V-23 according to some inside FBI information or well west of V-23 as it was 'standard procedure' (albeit unpublished) to avoid large population centers during hijackings.

The above interactions drew a shuttering yawn by all those who tortured themselves by reading them.

Good luck to Robert99 on his analysis. I would suggest sexing it up with a little inference to magnesium flares or how one of the radar technicians had Mafia connections or how the VORTAC signal was accidentally altered by the BFOs of transceivers used by prepubescent girls monitoring VHF communications.

That will stimulate some discussion, the quality will prove to be far more illusive.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

No... but she WAS a Stevie Wonder fan!

Hmmmm... I wonder if Cooper was a Stevie Wonder fan???

He must have been... he wore Stevie Wonder sunglasses!

airtwardo... You're onto something! (Or on something.)

That settles it! Cooper was a Stevie Wonder Fan.

Wait a minute!!!! Wonder's contract with Motown Records expired on May 21, 1971... That was the "grudge" Cooper talked about. THAT's IT! Stevie Wonder was Cooper!

Case solved... So now, who wants to teach me to skydive?

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[airtwardo 7]

Case solved... So now, who wants to teach me to skydive?

Just Do It


...like 'Flung' says, training is over-rated and unnecessary!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Farflung 0]

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Case solved... So now, who wants to teach me to skydive?

Just Do It


...like 'Flung' says, training is over-rated and unnecessary!


Therein lies the slippery slope.

If you simply accept that Cooper must have had jump training just because there is no other logical conclusion. This facilitates the stories that Cooper had trained with the Rangers or CIA. Which begat special operations in a conflict we all would like to forget. Which spawns a contempt for a government he once proudly served. Which produces an underground network of jaded, jump trained, suburban anarchists, funded through hijacking airlines.

Or......

He spent a Saturday at the Your-In-Airy Drop Zone and paid $40 for a jump.

[airtwardo 7]

Quote

Quote

Case solved... So now, who wants to teach me to skydive?

Just Do It


...like 'Flung' says, training is over-rated and unnecessary!

Therein lies the slippery slope.

If you simply accept that Cooper must have had jump training just because there is no other logical conclusion. This facilitates the stories that Cooper had trained with the Rangers or CIA. Which begot special operations in a conflict we all would like to forget. Which spawns a contempt for a government he once proudly served. Which produces an underground network of jaded, jump trained, suburban anarchists, funded through hijacking airlines.

Or......

He spent a Saturday at the Your-In-Airy Drop Zone and paid $40 for a jump.

I think we can all agree that at the very least, he knew how to put one on...at the bare minimum he'd watched 'Ripcord' on television.

I believe we also can agree that he was, at least on the surface smart enough to have a 'plan' and had considered a few possible contingencies...that ends any speculation of involvement with the CIA.

We can ascertain through known data points, that our suspect was white, watched television, could read & write, wore creepy sunglasses and was likely more lucky than good...

~Anybody know where Roy Orbison was that day?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Airtwardo said:

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~Anybody know where Roy Orbison was that day?

Orbison recorded in the 1970s, but his albums performed so poorly that he began to doubt his talents. Author Peter Lehman would later observe his absence was a part of the mystery of his persona: "Since it was never clear where he had come from, no one seemed to pay much mind to where he had gone; he was just gone."

Born on April 23, 1936 Orbison was 35 years old on November 24th, 1971, although he looked much older due to his "hard living" habits. He was a Bourbon drinker and a chain smoker. He was known for performing while standing still and solitary, wearing black clothes and dark sunglasses which lent an air of mystery to his persona.

On January 1, 1972 the formerly cash-strapped Orbison released an album: "The All Time Hits of Roy Orbison, Vol. 2" on Monument Records. Many wondered how he had come up with the money to produce the record. Notably, the critically identified "best cuts" were "Falling" and "Drifting Away".

Summation:

• 36 years old at time of hijacking
  
• depressed and bitter in 70s (grudge)
  
• no one knew where he had gone
  
• mysterious persona
  
• disappeared in 70s
  
• bourbon drinker
  
• chain smoker
  
• liked to stand still (and solitary)
  
• wore black clothes
  
• wore sunglasses (indoors)
  
• used money not accounted for
  
• Hit records "Falling" & "Drifting Away"

This is absolute proof that Roy Orbison was Cooper!

Now… that’s twice I’ve solved this damned mystery… where’s my skydiving lessons?

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[377 22]

I've always liked Roy Orbison, ever since I was a little kid listening to "Only The Lonely."

Didn't he lose part of his family in a house fire? That might have lead to a "nothing to live for" attitude.

So it was either Roy or Rod Serling. Remember Snowmman's case for Rod?

Farflung, $40 for a fun jump? NOT. That will buy you two 14K jumps and beer change round these parts.

Skydivers are the cheapest people in the world of aeronautics. DZO's everywhere who live in mobile homes so they can make the payments on our turbine jumpships can attest to that. Jumps (inflation adjusted) are far cheaper now than they were when I started in 1968.

I feel a twinge of guilt every time I buy a $17 jump ticket knowing that if we paid $30 the DZO's kids could probably get those new shoes they need.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Farflung 0]

The tragic part is that the Orbison Theory is the most logical, linear, attributed and compelling offering I've read to date.

In 1979 this 'singer' released an album titled 'Laminar Flow' and obvious reference to the lack of turbulence experienced from the rear of the 727. All of his other album names are of the typical Rock-A-Billy lineage.

Later his tune "In Drams" would be featured in a flick where Dean Stockwell sings into a drop light while wearing Kabuki makeup and clasping a six inch cigarette holder. While a manic Frank Booth who appreciates the finer qualities of PABST BLUE RIBBONNNN shows some strained attention. This has absolutely nothing to do with Cooper, just some free association with Orbison and one of the most disturbingly awesome film scenes ever.

You're right 377, I really tubed the cost of a jump from the 70's. I get too many people calling me a liar if I quote any prices from that era. Go ahead and try to convince a 20 something how Motel 6 got its name or that there was a time when states had no speed limits.

[377 22]

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You're right 377, I really tubed the cost of a jump from the 70's. I get too many people calling me a liar if I quote any prices from that era. Go ahead and try to convince a 20 something how Motel 6 got its name or that there was a time when states had no speed limits.

Yeah, how the hell did Motel 6 do it? If you figure the ratio of condom cost to room cost then vs now, things have really gone crazy.

Belly freefall is still about 120 mph last time I checked. Some things never change.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.