DB Cooper

[Farflung 0]

377,
I agree that Quade demonstrated genuine moderation from a difficult position. I would have difficulties dealing with that type of situation and would not have done it with such eloquence. Thank you Quade.

Yet I will go to my grave never understanding what drives this to occur over and over again. Is this sport so polluted with participants that it can afford to alienate the curious and be so brusque to the veteran? Where are these threads that are ‘on point’, dedicated solely to skydiving or endlessly interesting to read? Is there one example out of the thousands available?

I have read a few other threads (largely safety related) and find them to represent some thoughtful analysis, risk mitigation and pro-active actions. There is also a large sector that does not meet those attributes and the weird part is, they DON’T know who they are.

No one ever describes themselves as - lacking a sense of humor, bad in the sack or violently flatulent; but damn there sure are a lot of them around on the average Friday night.

[377 22]

It's the Lord of the Flies, Clockwork Orange phenomena Farflung. It's alive and thriving in too many parts of skydiving. Go figure.

Is it any wonder that our sport's growth rate is barely positive? Tandems, unless they are hot young women, are treated like posers and wannabe jumpers at too many DZs. To me, anyone who leaves a plane aloft and lands under a chute is a jumper. We just have varying degrees of skill, experience and commitment.

I try to like everyone. When whuffos show up at a hostile or stuck up DZ I shield them from the sneering skygod venom and make them feel genuinely welcome.

Actually, I do it for selfish reasons. No real jumper will be impressed with my 747 type landings, but if I prep a whuffo family they will applaud wildly and their kids will press me for autographs.

I was once a dumb kid asking endless questions of skydivers at the DZ in Calistoga CA. The jumpers were so nice to me, showed me their gear, told amazing stories, let me help them pack. I was totally awed and hooked. I jumped as soon as I turned 18 and have been doing it ever since.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

Found this in a hollowed out coconut that washed up:

Larry Carr (Ckret) is corresponding with a lawyer from the Hague on the comic book connection, but won't reveal details [Ed. probably tie to KC]. Note it is the "closet thing to a lead"..i.e. Larry is confirming this is the new top lead in the Cooper case.


http://www.seattlemet.com/issues/archives/articles/cooper-comic-0509/

"Since releasing this new clue to the public in March, the closest thing Carr’s had to a lead is an email from a lawyer in The Hague working with the International Criminal Court on War Crime Tribunals. The lawyer grew up reading the comics and offered insight into the series, which Carr isn’t yet at liberty to disclose. "

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 247]

Quote

Quote

WHY ARE YOU HERE?

One might ask that same question about anybody anywhere.

While some people in this forum do seem to have some pretty strange motives, that doesn't invalidate their presence here.

They can only do that themselves by attacking others. Something you might want to consider when you continually press people to explain themselves and don't get an answer you want.

Bullies come in many forms.
I always look for the guy carrying a meat axe,
in a flower shop or a day care.

[377 22]

Quote

"Since releasing this new clue to the public in March, the closest thing Carr’s had to a lead is an email from a lawyer in The Hague working with the International Criminal Court on War Crime Tribunals.

Wish we could tie this in to Sheridan somehow. He is very interested in US war crimes and allegedly witnessed a number of them in Viet Nam. None of those atrocities are being reviewed in the Hague or by anyone really. They've been swept under the rug as Pete sees it.

Orange found some truly fascinating links between the CIA and USFS Smoke Jumpers who were deployed to Viet Nam to serve as cargo kickers and to perform other work in covert air ops. Sheridan Peterson went to Viet Nam as a civilian refugeee advisor. Sheridan Peterson served as a USFS Smoke Jumper in the NW (100% confirmed) prior to going to Viet Nam.

I have reestablished contact (he had moved) with a Vietnamese war vet who served as a paratrooper in the Vietnamese Army. He made BOTH S/L and frefall jumps during his military service. I am going to try and do a video of an interview with him in January. Any questions you want asked? I am gong to ask him about knowledge of the Air America 727 jumps, sport jumping in Saigon, etc. I first was skeptical of his freefall claims but found photos in a history book that confirmed them. They were made from old Sikorsky helos that look like H 19s, exactly as he recounted them.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

***No one ever describes themselves as - lacking a sense of humor, bad in the sack or violently flatulent;

Farting is a hotly discussed topic in jumping Farflung. B 52s fly pressurized so you were spared what we experience during climb when the decreasing atmospheric pressure works its wonders on jumper contained methane. I swear we have had flammable cabin atmospheres in the Otter with the door closed.

You DON'T want to fly on the sunrise load the morning after the DZ's annual Chile cookoff.

HD, 3DTV and other tech advances can bring skydiving right into your living room. When they add scent vision, shut that feature off when you watch skydiving movies. I am not kidding.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[quade 4]

Quote

You're right 377, I did forget one thing
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3804944;search_string=nexus%20of%20incivility;guest=75293567#3804944
Low Pull!

I am glad you've finally admitted your ruse. I was fairly certain you wouldn't be able to resist doing so. Sadly, now I have to ban this name as well.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Quote

Found this in a hollowed out coconut that washed up:

Larry Carr (Ckret) is corresponding with a lawyer from the Hague on the comic book connection, but won't reveal details [Ed. probably tie to KC]. Note it is the "closet thing to a lead"..i.e. Larry is confirming this is the new top lead in the Cooper case.


http://www.seattlemet.com/...s/cooper-comic-0509/

"Since releasing this new clue to the public in March, the closest thing Carr’s had to a lead is an email from a lawyer in The Hague working with the International Criminal Court on War Crime Tribunals. The lawyer grew up reading the comics and offered insight into the series, which Carr isn’t yet at liberty to disclose. "

377

Fixed Link

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

You know, I'm one of those whuffos previously mentioned. I have wondered (at times) why a skydiving website (forum) would have such an "open-door" policy.

In fact, I sent an inquiry to establish if it was okay for a non-jumper to register here before I did so.

If I were excluded (as opposed to banned) tomorrow, I would bear no hard feelings.

Which brings me to Quade... I sometimes wonder why he does what he does (Serve as moderator for the bottom-feeders forum). He is either; tremendously loyal to the Powers That Be (TPTB, Sangrio I believe), loves skydiving so much that he will do whatever is necessary to support it, thinks that this thread keeps the other threads from being contaminated with 100 DB posts a day (sort of quarentine), or he is a sick-minded individual.

At any rate, I have seen him display the patience of Job in situations where I would have gone super critical and melted down. Some even involving me.

I think none of us can even imagine the # of PMs he gets a day. It's probably more like running a daycare than moderating a forum.

So, hats off to Quade and hats off th TPTB.

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[377 22]

Amazon wrote:

Quote

Christ... I remember flying an A Model from a reserve unit out of Billy Mitchell Field all the way to freakin Hawaii in 1973... I think I was numb for about 2 days from the incessant freakin vibration of those engines.

This A model had the orginal 3 bladed Aero Products props. Vibration wasnt bad at all. The USAF upgraded all their As to the four bladed Hamilton Standard props which gave better performance above 17,000 feet compared to the old 3 bladers.

Lockheed would have nothing to do with supporting surplus As. They wanted them all scrapped but couldnt force it. The wing box design on the A was bad and with some overloaded flight and heavy turbulence cracks would start. Two surplus A model Herc fire tankers (one flying for Hemet, the other for Hawkins and Powers) shed wings in flight. Very sad for the crews and their families.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

Sluggo wrote;

Quote

In fact, I sent an inquiry to establish if it was okay for a non-jumper to register here before I did so.

If I were excluded (as opposed to banned) tomorrow, I would bear no hard feelings.

No way Sluggo. If you were excluded I would be all over you to do AFF and rejoin. You are a pilot, you are a Cooper fanatic, what is holding you back from participating in the aero sport that has the highest ratio of thrill to dollar of anything short of controlled substances?

Sugar, if you are reading this I have an idea for your husband's Christmas present.

Sluggo, do you think this love fest for Quade is hard on Snow?

I actually don't.

He probably views us as weak and obsequeous though.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Quote

Sluggo wrote;

Quote

In fact, I sent an inquiry to establish if it was okay for a non-jumper to register here before I did so.

If I were excluded (as opposed to banned) tomorrow, I would bear no hard feelings.

No way Sluggo. If you were excluded I would be all over you to do AFF and rejoin. You are a pilot, you are a Cooper fanatic, what is holding you back from participating in the aero sport that has the highest ratio of thrill to dollar of anything short of controlled substances?

Sugar, if you are reading this I have an idea for your husband's Christmas present.

Sluggo, do you think this love fest for Quade is hard on Snow?

I actually don't.

He probably views us as weak and obsequeous though.

377

I never had considered jumping before spending so much time with you guys. Last year, I gave it some serious thought. I've already had my fill of adrenaline producing activities, however, I do enjoy new experiences. My big fear is getting (seriously) injured in the process of a NORMAL jump. I have an artificial knee, artificial thumb-joint, really f%$&ed-up shoulders (screws,wires, pins and plates) and a prostetic scrotum/penis assembly. (Just joking about the scrotum and penis).
If I can regain my physical conditioning (which I am working on, so I can recover a third class FAA medical) maybe I'll jump (not on Christmas), but on my 63rd B'day.

You know, snowmman (two m's) probably irritated me more that any other poster, but I still had a certain level of respect for him. We don't know the whole story, Quade did what Quade had to do. I'll bet PMs were involved.

So, somebody help me out here:

Did EagleEyeWindsor = Sheriden Peterson = NexusofCivility ?

Or, did snowmman = NexusofCivility ?

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

I've been thinking about the “jumping” discussion, and now I have a question.

Is there some sort of simulator (no matter how crude) that would allow me to PROGRESSIVELY add stress to test my ability to withstand chute deployment and landing (not necessarily at the same time)?

That way, I could see how much the mass of lower-legs inertia stresses the fake joint during deployment in slow steps.

Ditto, for the shoulder stress, and mobility. I’m not sure I have the range of motion and strength to manage the basic mechanics.

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[377 22]

Quote

Quote

You're right 377, I did forget one thing
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3804944;search_string=nexus%20of%20incivility;guest=75293567#3804944
Low Pull!

I am glad you've finally admitted your ruse. I was fairly certain you wouldn't be able to resist doing so. Sadly, now I have to ban this name as well.

Low Pull? I dont think he pulled anything out except a middle finger.

Can't we let Snow back in if his inputs are automatically scrubbed by a software insult filter? Do such things exist? Just kdding Quade, I know you are unrelenting and so, apparently, is Snowmman.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

Quote

I've been thinking about the “jumping” discussion, and now I have a question.

Is there some sort of simulator (no matter how crude) that would allow me to PROGRESSIVELY add stress to test my ability to withstand chute deployment and landing (not necessarily at the same time)?

That way, I could see how much the mass of lower-legs inertia stresses the fake joint during deployment in slow steps.

Ditto, for the shoulder stress, and mobility. I’m not sure I have the range of motion and strength to manage the basic mechanics.

Dunno about a landing force simulator Sluggo, but if you jump a really big canopy in light non gusty winds and learn how to flare there should be close to zero vertical force when you alight.

You'll be trained to look at the horizon, but I always look at the ground when I land and I've never biffed a flare. I take height cues from what I can resolve, blades of grass, pebbles, footprints in dirt etc. When I look at the horizon I cant judge height as well.

Follow what your instructors tell you, not what I say. You can try alternatives later.

If you are REALLY conservative on canopy choices (BIG) and jumping conditions (PERFECT) you will dramatically lessen your chances of a landing injury.

As I've gotten older I've said no more often than I used to. Missing a load if the winds come up is no big deal. Femuring is.

If you do hop and pops the opening shock is pretty low and you wont have much stress on your shoulder or upper body. Terminal openings can be a bit rougher. You cannot depend on them always being smooth.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 247]

Quote

You know, I'm one of those whuffos previously mentioned. I have wondered (at times) why a skydiving website (forum) would have such an "open-door" policy.

In fact, I sent an inquiry to establish if it was okay for a non-jumper to register here before I did so.

If I were excluded (as opposed to banned) tomorrow, I would bear no hard feelings.

Which brings me to Quade... I sometimes wonder why he does what he does (Serve as moderator for the bottom-feeders forum). He is either; tremendously loyal to the Powers That Be (TPTB, Sangrio I believe), loves skydiving so much that he will do whatever is necessary to support it, thinks that this thread keeps the other threads from being contaminated with 100 DB posts a day (sort of quarentine), or he is a sick-minded individual.

At any rate, I have seen him display the patience of Job in situations where I would have gone super critical and melted down. Some even involving me.

I think none of us can even imagine the # of PMs he gets a day. It's probably more like running a daycare than moderating a forum.

So, hats off to Quade and hats off th TPTB.

Well... hard as it is to believe I share this basic
sentiment, as far as it applies to offering a place
for 'the underclass' to discuss their Cooper wash,
across the back fense so to speak. Hosting authors
and rabid pushers of candidates is a matter of a
different stripe completely; you know this has the
potential for trouble and incivility automatically.
That tends to bring out thje worst in me after
a while, and I admit it. I have my own prejudices
and biases and 'affiliations' to protect. But I
readily admit it. (The candidate pushers wont
admit it; in my estimation.)

I would not have banned Snow for life, but only
for a couple of months, and then see how it went.
Because we all know Snow can be civil when he
wants to be. I miss Snow's intlellect. So, I now
have that off my chest. I was sorry to see Snow
go ........ forever? That just doesn't make sense
to me.

That anyone would actually have to defend this
thread against skydivers surprises me - a lot!
I like skydivers as a group. Some of my best
friends are skydivers. Hell two of my sons are
"skydivers" and certified "divers" (who film no less).
So in order for me to turn on skydivers I would have
to turn on my own family and community! I cannot
image real skydivers turning on this thread or Quade
... whatever is going on. So Quade has my thanks
also ... I guess ... without even knowing what all
of the hu'bub is (behind the scenes).

As a group I think skydivers are a pretty dignified group. Dignity may be all anyone here is asking for?

Thanks,
G

[georger 247]

Or, did snowmman = NexusofCivility ?

for Pete's sake! Snowmmman WAS Nexus.
I knew it the instant it appeared. Not bragging,
just knew it, like I know footracks in the Snow.
It had the same footprint, ie. linguistics. Same
phrases used ... same tactical approach ... etc.
Anyone who stands twice as tall intellectually has
be to be Snowmman or his brother (from all those
who have ever posted here or who might)? Thats
how I knew... he was like a leopard stalking his
target with words and intention(s) ... and he was
too polite which is the funniest part. (Nobody but
Snow is THAT polite without a reason!)

[georger 247]

Quote

Quote

Quote

You're right 377, I did forget one thing
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3804944;search_string=nexus%20of%20incivility;guest=75293567#3804944
Low Pull!

I am glad you've finally admitted your ruse. I was fairly certain you wouldn't be able to resist doing so. Sadly, now I have to ban this name as well.

Low Pull? I dont think he pulled anything out except a middle finger.

Can't we let Snow back in if his inputs are automatically scrubbed by a software insult filter? Do such things exist? Just kdding Quade, I know you are unrelenting and so, apparently, is Snowmman.

377

BTW Snow never intended to start a
cult with his Dan Cooper comic find. That is Larry's
doing (for better or worse). We both knew from
the beginning that the Dan Cooper features were no more prolific than a few features spread over time within Tintin, and not too widely distributed at first.

Snow and I both exhausted hours finding links and tracking issues, distribution channels, etc etc etc... on the prospect that someboy might make more
out of this than was warranted. Well... you know
the rest.

There is no proof whatever that Dan Cooper
or anyone else we know of had any specific link to
Weinberg's Dan Cooper ... so whatever Larry thinks
he is pursuing its his affair and I know for a fact other agents have other ideas they think are
worth spending their time on. Nuff said.

Draw your own conclusions - you will anyway.

The power of the Dan Cooper comic, as I see it,
is the name. It is specific. DAN COOPER. The name
the perp signed in with on entry. Where in hell did
he pull that name from? Jerry Thomas also thinks
there is some significance in the name. Whatever
the link is (if any) it escapes me completely ...

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

The NWA pilots would be doing two things:

1. trying to comply with Cooper's flight profile demands (to avoid being blown up) and

2. staying well above the highest terrain in the area to avoid a crash.

If the cloud layers and the 727's altitude reports to ARTCC were acurately reported I think it's unlikely that the 727 could have been seen low enough to visually identify the aircraft type over any inhabited area that rainy night. I think the most you'd see is lights in the sky and perhaps a vague shape. Sluggo, your thoughts?

There were a number of planes flying around that night that were connected with the hijack. F 106s are VERY loud. T 33s are not. A C 130 Herc doesnt sound like a jet fighter or a jet transport and neither do helos. 1971 era 727s were very loud at high power settings. I am not confident that an average civilian could tell the difference between the sound of an F 106 chase plane and a 727.

377

I know transports and larger planes from the smaller fast planes in my area. The area I am talking about is very very close to the route the FBI proclaimed early on - Lake Merwin but East of there. The plane may have been higher north of this one area - but around the Heisson area - it has been claimed the darn thing was lower. There was more than ONE report and these people where just dismissed. One said it was just as dark asended on them - why he could see the plane. The other couple whose husband had died and she is hospitalized with a stroke had TOLD the same story and they lived close to this other man....

The other two women live further north and why I dismissed this yrs ago, but now when YOU go out there and SEE the terrain and DRIVE the areas - the picture is EASIER to SEE.

They did not say what kind of plane it was - but it was a large plane and NOT a small chase plane. Now someone tell me how quickly did they get other aircraft in the air that night the size of a 727 and was the 727 that was behind the hijacked plane - what was it's altittude and what course was it flying.

Had it been orderd to fly lower - probably not - because the Skyjacked plane was way ahead of it. What other aircraft was in the air that night at that time of that size?

Everyone of them made the same statement. They thought it was an aircraft in trouble and it was flying low. The 2 women to the north did NOT see the plane, but heard it...therefore it might have been higher there, but did the plane drop its altittude right after it crossed the Merwin area and did it veer toward after the Easterly portion of the lake.

There was more than ONE report of the siting of the plane visually in the Heisson area. One individual vividly describes being able to see the image of the plane - thru the clouds. When he was talking to me - I tried to compare what he was saying to what the guys do around here with the transports. The kill the engine to almost stall and then have to pull out...it is part of the training. They have dropped so low over my house I thought they were going to hit it (I am the highest point in my area). I made a complaint about this being done over a populated area. We have lots of Woods North of us they can teach this.

I have a feeling this is about the time the crew felt the change of pressure and the bump that followed. In hilly country can you actually tell how far you are over hills and valleys...to maintain a specific altitude you would be going up and down and up and down.

Did the chase planes fly under the 727? If so - it would have been very dangerous for a chase plane to fly at that low of an altitude??????

I am only repeating what I have heard - I know nothing about any of this. I am just telling you what little I know and repeating what individuals have told me.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 247]

Quote

I think everyone's missing the boat on the Dan Cooper comic thing.

Unless you can link the comic to a specific suspect somehow, it is useless as a clue, even if you KNEW Cooper took his name from the comic. It leads absolutely nowhere without a link.

Hmm...looks like there's been some heavy editing over at the Cooper Wiki page for KC. One thing I noticed was no more comic reference.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D._B._Cooper

I accidentally landed on this thread about ten pages back and saw some old questions by Jo and Georger regarding the value of Kenny's estate, as well as questions about how EXACTLY he may have laundered the money. Good questions. Fair questions. I will try to answer.

When KC died, here was the basic deal. He had about 400k in the bank. His gold coin, silver coin, and stamp collection was valued at about 300k. This is according to the person who distributed the estate to the relatives. The house went to a guy who took care of Kenny in his last year, but this guy sold it the minute he got the title. His car went to another friend. Lyle Christiansen (and family) say the value of the collection was established this way: That's about how much they got for it when they sold it. I have NOT seen the paperwork on this, but Skipp Porteous has. It's also true that the original value of the coins was much smaller, due to the price of gold being lower in previous years. Still, it's hard to explain an estate so large when Kenny usually made less than 20k a year, and many years LESS than 10k declared. That's your basic poverty level.

well, 300k for a coin collection is large for an
ordinary person. I wonder what the content was
that came to this 'selling' value. Normally most buyers wont offer more than 40% of the catalog
value of a coin collection (less on stamps), so
they either sold the collection to a friend or if
sold to a dealer the collection had a catalog value
at least twice the purchase value. (You can certify
what Im saying with any legitimate stamp or coin
dealer of which there are several in Seattle).

400k in the bank ... he had a nice little estate.

He must have spent time on his collection and
known something about what to collect or he had
an advisor. A collection of that value requires time
to assemble.

Robert, none of this means he was Cooper. You
know that. It does mean something about Kenny
however and would tie into his upbringing. He
probably did not spend anything like what the
final value of his collection became due to inflation.
A few gold coins worth $500 in the fifties could have
been worth ten thousand each by the 1990s, for
example. Farflung touched on this point (building
estates) earlier.

You have to 'put him on the plane' or tie him
directly to some unimpeachable piece of evidence
in the Cooper case. Thats the burden of proof.
If his prints match any of the prints found at
Reno then he was there. You know the routine.
That is the burden of proof.

Larry must think (just guessing) that Dan Cooper
on a comic and Dan Cooper on a ticket are just
too much of a coincidence to ignore. Farflung
has mentioned at least one more Dan Cooper
in literature. Max Gunther tried to postulate a
literary-philosophical context for Cooper in which
Cooper was a disaffected socialist Robin Hood.
(Gunther started a small cult ideology with that approach). Cooper said he had a grudge. What
was Kenny's grudge?

As for me I look for hard evidence. Im all
about that, or would like to think so. I am as
baffled by the last 37+ years as I am the crime
itself.

[quade 4]

Quote

Did the chase planes fly under the 727? If so - it would have been very dangerous for a chase plane to fly at that low of an altitude??????

The most logical place for a chase plane would be on-level and behind the aircraft they were chasing. This would enable them to maintain visual contact yet minimize anyone inside the hijacked aircraft from knowing they were being followed. It's illogical to assume the chase planes would be at an altitude significantly below the hijacked plane. approximately on-level and six o'clock in trail would be ideal and that's where they'd more than likely try to be unless told to attempt to make visual contact with the pilot through his side windows.

http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim/Chap5/aim0506.html

This procedure has been in place pretty much since WWII as it's the one that makes the most sense and allows the intercepting aircraft to have the most control over the situation.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Snowmmman WAS Nexus. I knew it the instant it appeared. Not bragging,
ust knew it, like I know footracks in the Snow.It had the same footprint, ie. linguistics. Same
phrases used ... same tactical approach ... etc.

Ditto here - I even made a comment about it.

So many phone calls to make from the contacts I made in WA and OR....and catching up with what is going on here.

I am serious is asking you guys for assistance on some of the research or advice on where to go. Need some geneological research on some names out of a small Wa town not to far from Arlington, OR.

Need research on the Spillway Tavern - people promise to help but then they get busy with life.

What about running pictures and asking for help in the local papers of these area - Does anyone think this will provide any answers?

I find little to zero on the CCS in WA and OR. Can't seem to obtain anything with names and pictures.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

Quote

This procedure has been in place pretty much since WWII as it's the one that makes the most sense and allows the intercepting aircraft to have the most control over the situation.

Correct. Remember the Soviet intercept of Korean Airlines flight 007?

It gets dicey in cloudy conditions. One of a pair of USAF jets dispatched to do a practice intercept of a civilian plane off the East Coast in clouds collided with the target and caused it to crash killing all aboard. The interceptor was able to return to base where the ground crew found parts of human scalps embedded in wing seams.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

The most logical place for a chase plane would be on-level and behind the aircraft they were chasing. This would enable them to maintain visual contact yet minimize anyone inside the hijacked aircraft from knowing they were being followed. It's illogical to assume the chase planes would be at an altitude significantly below the hijacked plane. approximately on-level and six o'clock in trail would be ideal and that's where they'd more than likely try to be unless told to attempt to make visual contact with the pilot through his side windows.

Thank You that is exactly what I am looking for. And it is exactly why I believe these individuals in the area I spoke to. More would come forward if they didn't fear being ridiculed by the media.

Back in 1971 when some of them came forward - the FBI agent who came out did not take even one written note. This was mentioned by more than one of the individuals.

When laymen such as myself try to figure out how high something is or how high up they are themselves - this is difficult unless they ask questions of those who know. When I am flying I asked what altituted we are - so this helps me to make some judgement calls. Since I live in an area of pilots I ask how high a plane is. I have been doing this for about 7 yrs now.

I am going to make a judgement call from the telephone conversation the other night...and say the plane was probably low. He describe a couple of layer of clouds, but he could still see the sillouette of the plane and it was loud. His call was putting the plane way too low so I will double his call and say 7000 to 8000 ft. I wonder if at anytime the pilot dropped his altituted below the reported 8000 to 10000 ft. when he had to make adjustments in a curve - as I know they complained about the fear of the flaps at a specific degree.

Another would be - when the lower stairway opened and they felt the pressure pump if that might not have cause some lowering of the altituted if only briefly. Maybe there was some communications with the skyjacker about this time. Some reason or something that would cause the pilot to pull back if only briefly and loose altitude.

There were just too many similar accountings in this same area. AT least I am not claiming nor are they claiming they could see anything other than the image of the plane beyond the clouds. This one man said the cloud cover was layered.

What I do find ODD is the FBI poo pooing these people over the yrs. What was happening in that area - MASS hysteria? These individual where well known in the area and business people - they were not know to be liars. Too many indidivuals in one specific community heard the same thing - and this alone makes me wonder how much truth has the FBI actually been able to tell...and if they concealed anything about the skyjacking - WHY?

Did they actually fly EAST to try and dump Cooper in the Forest and Mountains? Did Cooper make a communication with the crew regarding the area? Was Cooper knowledgeable enough to know where he was and was it at this time the plane then pulled to a more Westerly route?

I will note one thing that I as a lay person was able to take in. After the plane went the Easterly point of Lake Merwin it did make a turn back toward the West and the VOR just West and South of Battleground. If you are out there driving this area you realize that was a big plane and this area is not that big nor that spread out. It is rather compact.

The Amboy and Chelahatie story is starting to sound better all the time. If Cooper threw out the dummy chute - could that be what they found in Amboy? We do not know what was packed in that dummy! Cossey has never actually said. Who was the company and who were the individuals who took off from a private strip in Fargher just West and South of Amboy.

I am not ignoring the card found in a cemetary to the West. I am just dealing with one thing at a time. 4000 ft equals 1 inch on this map which mean by air that aft stair card was found 40,000 ft away. How man miles is that? One mile equals 5,280 feet so the aft card was found 7 1/2 miles from Amboy, but the curve the plane took was West and south of Amboy by about 3 or 4 miles. I think the card left the aft stairs at about this point West of the Heisson area if the wind was carrying it North West it only had to be blown about 3 miles.

Okay you geniuses out there - am I sailing off in the the wind and am I completely lost. I know NOTHING about any of this.

What I did not understand until I went back out there and drove on my own - is how close all of this stuff is. I was driving a car I didn't know how to work the windshield wipers on and with the gear on the floor and not on the steering wheel and I had never drove over hills - it had always been flat land. I had to stop to let people pass me and even then they blew their horns and gave me the finger.

Okay - one nutty old woman just thinking out loud. I don't know any of this to be fact - I have just been looking at that damn map all day long - this is enough to drive an old woman crazy if she is not already looney.

I really really want to know who the individuals where that flew that darn plane out of Fargher and what company they were associated with. Supposedly business people - what kind of business? I think we need to know this - maybe unrelated, but a business flying out of there on Thanksgiving Eve?????? Sounds odd to me. But obviously the FBI didn't think it ODD.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

G wrote:

Quote

I cannot
image real skydivers turning on this thread or Quade
... whatever is going on.

Real skydivers can be vicious cannibals who eat members of their own tribe. I think every dropzone moderator has been attacked, ridiculed and provoked often for no good reason. It's a thankless task being a kennel keeper at a pit bull diet farm.

I actually think Quade would make a fine appellate judge. He sentences too harshly to be considered a fair trial judge. He does have a certain Solomonic quality in his reign as a moderator. Do you see it Georger?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.