georger 247
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377 22
Farflung wrote:
Great slot machine graphic Farflung!
Silicon Valley is the undisputed epicenter of Mid Life Crisis Manhood. We have a busy Ferrari dealer to prove it.
These paunchy Porsche pilots don't do comb-overs, they get follicle transplants from the top docs and are not strangers to liposuction needles.
It's funny to watch them shopping at Nieman Marcus with their young trophy babes who are apparently so passionate about their man that they cant be bothered with mundane things like looking at price tags.
These front line fighters against entropy and oxidation show up at the DZ for a tandem once in a while, but I cant recall ever seeing even one in an AFF class. Perhaps they buy a Harley instead. Most old skydivers are grown organically and got into the sport young.
Look at the parking lot at any DZ on a Saturday. Exclude the tandem passenger cars. What you are left with wouldn't make a very appealing used car lot. This demographic doesnt appeal to affluent older guys in mid life crisis mode. That's too bad because we'd like to see their eye candy come to the DZ with them.
I wonder if Cooper was in a mid life crisis? He sure didnt seem to focus on the money. You'd sure feel like a hot shot if you could pull off Norjack successfully. Problem is, you couldnt brag to women about it.
377
QuoteYour job is to equip this curmudgeon with all the panache to join the Old Navy and Dockers demographic. Choose the hot tub and proper toupee for starters. There are also the other standbys like the cars (you know the kind, they don’t) and of course- skydiving.
Great slot machine graphic Farflung!
Silicon Valley is the undisputed epicenter of Mid Life Crisis Manhood. We have a busy Ferrari dealer to prove it.
These paunchy Porsche pilots don't do comb-overs, they get follicle transplants from the top docs and are not strangers to liposuction needles.
It's funny to watch them shopping at Nieman Marcus with their young trophy babes who are apparently so passionate about their man that they cant be bothered with mundane things like looking at price tags.
These front line fighters against entropy and oxidation show up at the DZ for a tandem once in a while, but I cant recall ever seeing even one in an AFF class. Perhaps they buy a Harley instead. Most old skydivers are grown organically and got into the sport young.
Look at the parking lot at any DZ on a Saturday. Exclude the tandem passenger cars. What you are left with wouldn't make a very appealing used car lot. This demographic doesnt appeal to affluent older guys in mid life crisis mode. That's too bad because we'd like to see their eye candy come to the DZ with them.
I wonder if Cooper was in a mid life crisis? He sure didnt seem to focus on the money. You'd sure feel like a hot shot if you could pull off Norjack successfully. Problem is, you couldnt brag to women about it.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377 22
R99 said:
It sure would be hard to egress undetected from your landing area and get back to civilization without getting caught unless you had help from an accomplice.
There is another possibility though. Gossett was in the Army (reserves?) and could have jumped into Ft Lewis (very unilkely to be noticed at night) and blended in. He might have even left a car there and a uniform. Wasn't Ft Lewis consistent with a very early jump post takeoff?
I don't see convincing evidence that Gossett was Cooper, but there are viable Norjack escape plans that could have been pulled off without an accomplice. If Gossett was Cooper his Ft Lewis jump plan didnt work out because the pilots would not take off with the stairs lowered. By the time Cooper got the stairs lowered post takeoff the plane was far away from Ft Lewis.
377
QuoteI agree with your earlier point that he probably had an assistant somewhere along the way to help his escape.
It sure would be hard to egress undetected from your landing area and get back to civilization without getting caught unless you had help from an accomplice.
There is another possibility though. Gossett was in the Army (reserves?) and could have jumped into Ft Lewis (very unilkely to be noticed at night) and blended in. He might have even left a car there and a uniform. Wasn't Ft Lewis consistent with a very early jump post takeoff?
I don't see convincing evidence that Gossett was Cooper, but there are viable Norjack escape plans that could have been pulled off without an accomplice. If Gossett was Cooper his Ft Lewis jump plan didnt work out because the pilots would not take off with the stairs lowered. By the time Cooper got the stairs lowered post takeoff the plane was far away from Ft Lewis.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Farflung 0
You’re right about those modern day ‘hunter gatherers’ at the Neiman-Marcus. I’ve had to attract women the old fashioned way, through humility, sensitivity and a Henry the VIII codpiece.
Strange breed that group. They all feel so unique as they travel between Aspen, Corfu and Atherton. I’ve always wanted to live adjacent to East Palo Alto, but will probably never get the chance.
Still sitting the fence on Cooper and the money. He may have not thought that he would actually get as far as he did and was more surprised by the money as anything else. What would any of us do with a cash pile of money?
The elite struggle with the inverse side of the money equation. Who would worry about 0.14% (14 hundreds of one percent) regarding any purchase, investment or whatever? That is what percentage $200,000 represented to Meg Whitman’s, self funded campaign. What level of detachment must have been involved when ‘contracting’ with an agency to hire a part-time house cleaner for $25 an hour? I’ll bet she could have found a native born citizen, with all zee papers, if she offered fifty clams an hour and would have come across as a ‘Good Guy’ to boot.
Proportion, logic and relevance are usually the first victims when money is involved.
Strange breed that group. They all feel so unique as they travel between Aspen, Corfu and Atherton. I’ve always wanted to live adjacent to East Palo Alto, but will probably never get the chance.
Still sitting the fence on Cooper and the money. He may have not thought that he would actually get as far as he did and was more surprised by the money as anything else. What would any of us do with a cash pile of money?
The elite struggle with the inverse side of the money equation. Who would worry about 0.14% (14 hundreds of one percent) regarding any purchase, investment or whatever? That is what percentage $200,000 represented to Meg Whitman’s, self funded campaign. What level of detachment must have been involved when ‘contracting’ with an agency to hire a part-time house cleaner for $25 an hour? I’ll bet she could have found a native born citizen, with all zee papers, if she offered fifty clams an hour and would have come across as a ‘Good Guy’ to boot.
Proportion, logic and relevance are usually the first victims when money is involved.
More about witnesses to the 1971 incident:
Quote"I am going to make a judgement call from the telephone conversation the other night...and say the plane was probably low. He describe a couple of layer of clouds, but he could still see the sillouette of the plane and it was loud. His call was putting the plane way too low so I will double his call and say 7000 to 8000 ft. I wonder if at anytime the pilot dropped his altituted below the reported 8000 to 10000 ft. when he had to make adjustments in a curve - as I know they complained about the fear of the flaps at a specific degree."
"Another would be - when the lower stairway opened and they felt the pressure pump if that might not have cause some lowering of the altituted if only briefly. Maybe there was some communications with the skyjacker about this time. Some reason or something that would cause the pilot to pull back if only briefly and loose altitude."
I made 2 quotes from a prior post I made that no one responed to, but then this new guy comes in and mentions DRAG caused by an open door.
Question: Could the DRAG of the aft stair well being open have caused the plane to slow and to drop in altititude?
---------------------
Quote"There were just too many similar accountings in this same area. AT least I am not claiming nor are they claiming they could see anything other than the image of the plane beyond the clouds. This one man said the cloud cover was layered."
just cloud cover. Obviously certain areas may have had rain and more clouds than other area, but the area WAS NOT BLANKETED with A STORM.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
377 22
QuoteWhat would any of us do with a cash pile of money?
I'd grab a stack of bills and offer some to Tina (as a test). When she declined I'd know I had found a very attractive woman of good character and figure out a way to connect with her later sans disguise.
Isnt that what you'd do Farflung?
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
JCW1966 stated:
QuoteThe placard from the 727 was found in a cemetery. Maybe Cooper left it there on purpose. I'm mean really, what are the odds of that placard landing in a cemetery? Maybe by leaving it there he was making a statement. As meticulous as D.B. has appeared to be about things it wouldn't surprise me if it was left there on purpose. Was that placard ever finger printed?
JCW - you just asked the questions that have always puzzled me. In another post later on this same day - I believe it was Georger who stated he didn't know the placard was found in a Cemetery. Perhaps this is just part of my fantasy. I do know that the card was found by hunters and I knew about the cemetery in that area because Duane told me about it on our trip. The location mentioned in the books for the find is Toutle. How far is that from a cemetery?
JCW1966 stated:
QuoteI'm also thoroughly convinced that he had an accomplice or transportation in place on the ground. Now that would mean he would have to know where he was at in relation to the earth below during the flight and up until he left the plane. How hard would that be to do? If you knew where the plane was at in relation to the earth then you would have the navigation problem licked. A compass, a map, and a little math would get you pretty close.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
JCW1966 0
QuoteThe placard from the 727 was found in a cemetery. .
That would be news to me if true.
We have someone here who can probably
answer this.
I actually read that on here, it's the first time I had heard it. The problem is to go find it there's almost 800 pages of posts to rummage through
377 22
QuoteQuestion: Could the DRAG of the aft stair well being open have caused the plane to slow and to drop in altititude?
I hope Farflung will respond to you Jo. He has flown big jets.
My guess is the speed loss from stair and open door drag would be only a few knots, certainly less than 10.
Jet airliners are on autopilot most of the time and maneuvers such as climbs, turns and descents are done by making inputs to the autopilot rather than hand flying the plane with the control column and rudder pedals. The autopilots have an altiitude hold feature to assure maintaining level flight, so you wouldnt get a lot of altitude variation unless the power settings were insufficient to hold the set altitude.
When I jumped from a DC 9 jet I didn't feel any deceleration at all when they opened the cabin door, but it wasnt faired into the fuselage outer surface, it was inside and at the top of the stairwell area. The stairs had been removed and we just jumped out of the now open area where the stairs were normally stowed. We had good looking flight attendants too, but none quite as appealing as Tina.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
QuoteJo, with all due respect, just exactly what does a chase plane sound like? How did they know it was a chase plane(s)?
A natural assumption: the chase planes were smaller and faster and that is why they did loops back and forth in the 727's path.
Ever hear one of these small fast planes? They sure do not sound like a Boeing 727. Most who live near bases would know these sounds...they may not know what kind of plane it was or why it was flying where it was.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Robert99 50
QuoteR99 said:
QuoteI agree with your earlier point that he probably had an assistant somewhere along the way to help his escape.
It sure would be hard to egress undetected from your landing area and get back to civilization without getting caught unless you had help from an accomplice.
There is another possibility though. Gossett was in the Army (reserves?) and could have jumped into Ft Lewis (very unilkely to be noticed at night) and blended in. He might have even left a car there and a uniform. Wasn't Ft Lewis consistent with a very early jump post takeoff?
I don't see convincing evidence that Gossett was Cooper, but there are viable Norjack escape plans that could have been pulled off without an accomplice. If Gossett was Cooper his Ft Lewis jump plan didnt work out because the pilots would not take off with the stairs lowered. By the time Cooper got the stairs lowered post takeoff the plane was far away from Ft Lewis.
377
Cooper had an argument with Rataczak about the lowering of the stairs before take-off. Rataczak claimed that they couldn't take-off with the stairs in a partial down position. Cooper finally said to take-off with them up but he told Tina that he knew the airplane could take-off with them down.
The airliner took off towards the south and, about the time it rotated, it passed within about 1000 feet laterally of the Seattle VORTAC from which V-23 runs to the Toledo area.
In proceeding along the centerline of V-23, the airliner would have passed about 1 or 2 statute miles east of McChord AFB base at about 23 statute miles from the SEA VORTAC.
About 5 statute miles further along V-23, the airplane would have passed about 5 statute miles east of Gray AAF at Fort Lewis. Then as it continued along V-23, it would have passed to the east of several restricted areas that are probably part of the Fort Lewis complex.
The boundaries of Fort Lewis are not shown on any map I have, but it appears that from about the McChord AFB area there is nothing in the way of civilization (even today) that Cooper would have to avoid until he got to the Toledo area.
The airplane probably passed McChord about 7 minutes after take-off, and from that point Cooper would have a "window" of about 10-15 minutes to jump and land in a relatively unpopulated area from which he could probably easily slip through the brush into Fort Lewis.
So his goal may have been to land in the Fort Lewis area after dark and that may have been one reason for selecting this specific flight. Since sunset in Seattle that day was a number of minutes before 5:00 PM, and Cooper specified that the money was to be there at a time that was just after sunset, he probably planned to do a night jump all along.
But giving in to Rataczak, in order to get the airplane flying again, loused up a jump into the Fort Lewis area.
Robert
Robert99 50
QuoteQuoteQuestion: Could the DRAG of the aft stair well being open have caused the plane to slow and to drop in altititude?
I hope Farflung will respond to you Jo. He has flown big jets.
My guess is the speed loss from stair and open door drag would be only a few knots, certainly less than 10.
Jet airliners are on autopilot most of the time and maneuvers such as climbs, turns and descents are done by making inputs to the autopilot rather than hand flying the plane with the control column and rudder pedals. The autopilots have an altiitude hold feature to assure maintaining level flight, so you wouldnt get a lot of altitude variation unless the power settings were insufficient to hold the set altitude.
When I jumped from a DC 9 jet I didn't feel any deceleration at all when they opened the cabin door, but it wasnt faired into the fuselage outer surface, it was inside and at the top of the stairwell area. The stairs had been removed and we just jumped out of the now open area where the stairs were normally stowed. We had good looking flight attendants too, but none quite as appealing as Tina.
377
According to a post from Jerry Thomas a long time ago, NWA reportedly told Rataczak to hand fly the airplane all the way to Reno. But with the stair door open, the flaps down, and the landing gear down, the crew did report trouble in climbing, turning, and descending.
Reportedly, the aircraft could not make a standard rate two minute turn (3 degrees per second). In approaching Reno, the crew told the controllers that their best descent rate was slightly greater than 500 feet per minute. Then while on final approach to Reno, the aircraft had to break off the approach and do a 360 degree turn in order to get into the proper position.
Part of the final approach problem may have been that the 727 had a reputation for being difficult to stabilize on the final approach.
Robert
Farflung 0
377 Wildly fantasizes:
“I'd grab a stack of bills and offer some to Tina (as a test). When she declined I'd know I had found a very attractive woman of good character and figure out a way to connect with her later sans disguise.
Isnt that what you'd do Farflung?”
I would have used a three prong approach regarding Tina.
1. After noticing what a ‘God’s gift to Farflung’ Tina represented, I would have bailed on the hijacking idea and told her about my life’s ambition to build orphanages between working at the animal shelter and designing figurines for the Precious Moments Chapel.
2. If she remained nonplused, I would clutch my chest and feign a massive coronary while insisting that Tina write my dying declaration. I would bequeath my vast (and overstated) fortune to my wife and then confess that I had never known the joy of wedded union, my ‘last’ wish. An official on the plane conducts the ceremony in flight and I make a miraculous recovery (if you know what I mean).
3. Confess that I’m bad in the sack and become violently flatulent.
I know one of the tines of my trident would work, just not sure exactly which one.
“I'd grab a stack of bills and offer some to Tina (as a test). When she declined I'd know I had found a very attractive woman of good character and figure out a way to connect with her later sans disguise.
Isnt that what you'd do Farflung?”
I would have used a three prong approach regarding Tina.
1. After noticing what a ‘God’s gift to Farflung’ Tina represented, I would have bailed on the hijacking idea and told her about my life’s ambition to build orphanages between working at the animal shelter and designing figurines for the Precious Moments Chapel.
2. If she remained nonplused, I would clutch my chest and feign a massive coronary while insisting that Tina write my dying declaration. I would bequeath my vast (and overstated) fortune to my wife and then confess that I had never known the joy of wedded union, my ‘last’ wish. An official on the plane conducts the ceremony in flight and I make a miraculous recovery (if you know what I mean).
3. Confess that I’m bad in the sack and become violently flatulent.
I know one of the tines of my trident would work, just not sure exactly which one.
Beautiful!
Just beautful!!!!!
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