DB Cooper

[Robert99 50]

Jo, The additional drag of the stairs being lowered would be overcome by increasing the engine thrust which would not be a problem. Just more fuel would be used.

I agree with your statement that weather was apparently not a problem in the Portland/Vancouver area despite contrary information in a book or two.

Before take-off in Seattle, the crew asked for the weather along the planned flight path and were essentially told (I'm going from memory) that it would not be a problem but that they might have some haze south of Portland.

Somewhere around Medford, the crew expressed some concern about some light icing that they were encountering. But the NWA performance group in Minneapolis told them it would not be a problem and not to worry about it.

Robert

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

JCW1966 stated:

Quote

The placard from the 727 was found in a cemetery. Maybe Cooper left it there on purpose. I'm mean really, what are the odds of that placard landing in a cemetery? Maybe by leaving it there he was making a statement. As meticulous as D.B. has appeared to be about things it wouldn't surprise me if it was left there on purpose. Was that placard ever finger printed?

JCW - you just asked the questions that have always puzzled me. In another post later on this same day - I believe it was Georger who stated he didn't know the placard was found in a Cemetery. Perhaps this is just part of my fantasy. I do know that the card was found by hunters. The location mentioned in the books for the find is Toutle. How far is that from a cemetery?

JCW1966 stated:

Quote

I'm also thoroughly convinced that he had an accomplice or transportation in place on the ground. Now that would mean he would have to know where he was at in relation to the earth below during the flight and up until he left the plane. How hard would that be to do? If you knew where the plane was at in relation to the earth then you would have the navigation problem licked. A compass, a map, and a little math would get you pretty close.

Okay guys enough of this game, but I am sure it will go down that I started this rumor.

Quote

The Place Card was found in Toutle far far North of Ariel and Lake Merwin. See how quickly a MYTH can be created and take hold.

The damn story is so riddled with Myths (like the Dan Cooper Comic thing) that the truth is buried. Why not add another Myth about the place card. Georger was the only one who caught it.

All one has to do is make one small statement (on purpose or in error) and before you know it it has become fact.

No one knows how or why the placard was found in Toutle - did Cooper have the stairwell opened by then? Probably, but the FBI and others have used the placement of that placard to claim the flight was closer to I-5 rather than somewhat more East, Draw a straight line from Toutle to an area an area between Cama/Washougal and see where it goes.

Heisson, Camas, Troutdale, Brush Prairie, Orchards - all of this falls within the area. Over lay the radar source over a REAL map and see what you get. My problem has been finding a consistent flight path map and one NOT altered by Tom or Dick or Harry.

Now if someone has a real time actual copy of the official Radar - please see that I get it. Not one altered by others just to make things work. You guys redid the map because someone claimed that this place being referred to or that place being referred to was different. I didn't buy a lot of that....one would think that the flight path would have been laid out properly in 1971 by the media and the FBI in order to find clues. Did they have a reason to misdirect the public in 1971?

Unless the man who did the redo is the actual person who did the orginal report - stand by the orginal. I didn't understand what you guys where trying to accomplish other than to further complicate matters. All I want is the orginal projectory and what the original radar reports indicated...over layed on a real map. Then I will overlay that onto the map I have with the power lines and pipelines and railroad tracks - and see where it goes.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

Quote

I know one of the tines of my trident would work, just not sure exactly which one.

The demi-god pilots always get the hot girl, one way or another. We commoners have to select from the leftovers.

They didnt have flight attendants on B 52s, so what did you guys do for amusement on those long missions?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

Quote

According to a post from Jerry Thomas a long time ago, NWA reportedly told Rataczak to hand fly the airplane all the way to Reno. But with the stair door open, the flaps down, and the landing gear down, the crew did report trouble in climbing, turning, and descending.

Reportedly, the aircraft could not make a standard rate two minute turn (3 degrees per second). In approaching Reno, the crew told the controllers that their best descent rate was slightly greater than 500 feet per minute. Then while on final approach to Reno, the aircraft had to break off the approach and do a 360 degree turn in order to get into the proper position.

Part of the final approach problem may have been that the 727 had a reputation for being difficult to stabilize on the final approach.

Robert

Don Kirlin had to get access to Boeing's 727 stairs down flight test data before he could get the FAA to allow him to offer 727 jumps at the WFFC in Quincy Illinois. I tried to get Don to talk about this but got no response to my emails.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[quade 4]

Quote

I made 2 quotes from a prior post I made that no one responed to, but then this new guy comes in and mentions DRAG caused by an open door.

Question: Could the DRAG of the aft stair well being open have caused the plane to slow and to drop in altititude?

Not in any way that would be significant.

It's not like the stairs were a massive airbrake being held against the wind. In fact, just the opposite. Because they weren't locked down they simply trailed in the wind.

It would be the difference between holding your hand out a car window rigid or limp.

Just a small throttle bump or turn of the elevator trim probably would have fixed it enough to maintain altitude (although if fixed by elevator trim the aircraft would end up a fraction slower).

Since the pilots never seem to mention it anywhere in terms of maintaining control of the aircraft, I seriously doubt they felt it was a significant event in those terms. They almost certainly would have mentioned it to ATC if they could no longer maintain altitude of mountainous terrain.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[georger 244]

No as a matter of fact I didnt even look, but,
I know someone who is an expert on this and when
he gets back I think he will post on this, so lets
remember to ask ...

I thought the placard was found in the woods by
a hunting party (who picked up stray trash when
they saw it), almost directly under the flight path.
If there this was in or near a cemetery its news to
me, although I admit it hasnt been a critical issue
with me - knowing the pacard was nearly under the flight path was enough for me. Maybe someone
else knows, but I do know people who do know
for sure... I actually do have some coordinates
for the palcard find so maybe I should take a
look, lazy me.

It takes me back to when Sluggo suggested
exploring the cemeteries in and around ....
Brush Prarie? To look for money. Opening
each grave? Now that was funny.

[JCW1966 0]

Quote

JCW - you just asked the questions that have always puzzled me. In another post later on this same day - I believe it was Georger who stated he didn't know the placard was found in a Cemetery. Perhaps this is just part of my fantasy. I do know that the card was found by hunters. The location mentioned in the books for the find is Toutle. How far is that from a cemetery?



Okay guys enough of this game, but I am sure it will go down that I started this rumor.

Quote

The Place Card was found in Toutle far far North of Ariel and Lake Merwin. See how quickly a MYTH can be created and take hold.

The damn story is so riddled with Myths (like the Dan Cooper Comic thing) that the truth is buried. Why not add another Myth about the place card. Georger was the only one who caught it.

All one has to do is make one small statement (on purpose or in error) and before you know it it has become fact.

No one knows how or why the placard was found in Toutle - did Cooper have the stairwell opened by then? Probably, but the FBI and others have used the placement of that placard to claim the flight was closer to I-5 rather than somewhat more East, Draw a straight line from Toutle to an area an area between Cama/Washougal and see where it goes.

....one would think that the flight path would have been laid out properly in 1971 by the media and the FBI in order to find clues. Did they have a reason to misdirect the public in 1971?

Well I wasn't trying to add another myth to all of this. So the placard was found. We just don't know exactly where it was found. Now what are the odds of it being found period? Could it have been placed wherever on purpose? Look how many wrecked aircraft were found during the search for Fosset and these hunters found a placard?

I did find this on Wiki:

In late 1978 a placard containing instructions on how to lower the aft stairs of a 727, later confirmed to be from the rear stairway of the plane from which Cooper jumped, was found just a few flying minutes north of Cooper's projected drop zone. Surely the FBI had the sense to try to get some prints off of it?

Doesn't help much other than confirming the placard was found.

As did the FBI misdirect the public in 1971? When isn't the FBI misdirecting the public about something? Who knows what they did back in '71? I was only 5 and Scooby Doo was more along my lines than keeping up with current events.

If they did misdirect the public maybe it was to not let Cooper know what all they had, didn't have as far as clues as to his crime and identity thus keeping him looking over his shoulder wherever he went.

[georger 244]

Quote

Quote

R99 said:

Quote

I agree with your earlier point that he probably had an assistant somewhere along the way to help his escape.

It sure would be hard to egress undetected from your landing area and get back to civilization without getting caught unless you had help from an accomplice.

There is another possibility though. Gossett was in the Army (reserves?) and could have jumped into Ft Lewis (very unilkely to be noticed at night) and blended in. He might have even left a car there and a uniform. Wasn't Ft Lewis consistent with a very early jump post takeoff?

I don't see convincing evidence that Gossett was Cooper, but there are viable Norjack escape plans that could have been pulled off without an accomplice. If Gossett was Cooper his Ft Lewis jump plan didnt work out because the pilots would not take off with the stairs lowered. By the time Cooper got the stairs lowered post takeoff the plane was far away from Ft Lewis.

377

Cooper had an argument with Rataczak about the lowering of the stairs before take-off. Rataczak claimed that they couldn't take-off with the stairs in a partial down position. Cooper finally said to take-off with them up but he told Tina that he knew the airplane could take-off with them down.

The airliner took off towards the south and, about the time it rotated, it passed within about 1000 feet laterally of the Seattle VORTAC from which V-23 runs to the Toledo area.

In proceeding along the centerline of V-23, the airliner would have passed about 1 or 2 statute miles east of McChord AFB base at about 23 statute miles from the SEA VORTAC.

About 5 statute miles further along V-23, the airplane would have passed about 5 statute miles east of Gray AAF at Fort Lewis. Then as it continued along V-23, it would have passed to the east of several restricted areas that are probably part of the Fort Lewis complex.

The boundaries of Fort Lewis are not shown on any map I have, but it appears that from about the McChord AFB area there is nothing in the way of civilization (even today) that Cooper would have to avoid until he got to the Toledo area.

The airplane probably passed McChord about 7 minutes after take-off, and from that point Cooper would have a "window" of about 10-15 minutes to jump and land in a relatively unpopulated area from which he could probably easily slip through the brush into Fort Lewis.

So his goal may have been to land in the Fort Lewis area after dark and that may have been one reason for selecting this specific flight. Since sunset in Seattle that day was a number of minutes before 5:00 PM, and Cooper specified that the money was to be there at a time that was just after sunset, he probably planned to do a night jump all along.

But giving in to Rataczak, in order to get the airplane flying again, loused up a jump into the Fort Lewis area.

Robert

All except for one thing: he has not specified a
route to take, regardless of the stair issue. For
all he knows (and we know) they were headed
out to the coast intending to go south, on a low
elevation route. How could he have guessed they
would take V23 or go anywhere near Ft. Lewis?

He couldnt specify that. That would have tipped
somebody off, potentially.

How does he assure he's going to be on V23
without specifying it, if that was his desire?

BTW, to me the idea he intended to bail asap
after take off, near Seattle, is bogus. To do that
is to jump in the very area where law enforcement
is active and thickest. ??

[JCW1966 0]

Quote

All except for one thing: he has not specified a
route to take, regardless of the stair issue. For
all he knows (and we know) they were headed
out to the coast intending to go south, on a low
elevation route. How could he have guessed they
would take V23 or go anywhere near Ft. Lewis?

He couldnt specify that. That would have tipped
somebody off, potentially.

How does he assure he's going to be on V23
without specifying it, if that was his desire?

BTW, to me the idea he intended to bail asap
after take off, near Seattle, is bogus. To do that
is to jump in the very area where law enforcement
is active and thickest. ??

I have to agree with ya on the immediate bail out. Law enforcement probably would have been all over him.

Had Cooper been a commercial or military pilot would that have helped him to know where they were heading after takeoff?

People have always talked about him being a skydiver. You never hear anyone mention anything about him being a pilot but he seemed to know a lot more about the 727 than your average person.

I love airplanes and I made an aircraft carrier my home for 4 years. I didn't know the 727 had the rear staircase or what a Cooper Vane was until the early 80's and then it was only because of the stories about D.B. Cooper.

Had it not been for Cooper I might still not know that the 727 had that rear staircase.

On another note has anyone ever looked at Andrew Thorton, "The Company", and those he ran around with?

In his skydiving death Andrew Thornton was wearing night vision goggles, a bulletproof vest, Gucci loafers, and a green Army duffel bag containing approximately 40 kilos (79 lbs.) of cocaine valued at $15 million, $4,500 in cash, knives, and two pistols.

Where he jumped to his death at is over the Appalachians and the Smokeys, not a very nice place to be jumping into for sure. Oh and he was 26 in 71'

[Farflung 0]

377 Precisely concluded:

“The demi-god pilots always get the hot girl, one way or another.”

From your keyboard to God’s monitor 377. But it comes at a price.

[quade 4]

Quote

Had Cooper been a commercial or military pilot would that have helped him to know where they were heading after takeoff?

With the undercast (clouds under the plane), he wouldn't have had good enough visual contact with the ground to pick out any landmarks so he'd get no help there.

There's no indication he had any radio equipment at all, let alone any radio navigation equipment. Radio DF would be pretty useless to him and I think a portable Loran would have been equally useless, not to mention too time consuming to do in any covert manner. Obviously, no GPS existed at the time.

If he had a compass and a watch he could have a vague idea via ded reckoning, but that's about it. Since he didn't have access to the airspeed indicator or any way of knowing what his actual ground speed was, his estimates via ded reckoning would get worse and worse as he went along.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[JCW1966 0]

Quote

With the undercast (clouds under the plane), he wouldn't have had good enough visual contact with the ground to pick out any landmarks so he'd get no help there.

There's no indication he had any radio equipment at all, let alone any radio navigation equipment. Radio DF would be pretty useless to him and I think a portable Loran would have been equally useless, not to mention too time consuming to do in any covert manner. Obviously, no GPS existed at the time.

If he had a compass and a watch he could have a vague idea via ded reckoning, but that's about it. Since he didn't have access to the airspeed indicator or any way of knowing what his actual ground speed was, his estimates via ded reckoning would get worse and worse as he went along.

Thanks for the info. That answered a question or two, also gave me more questions. LOL.

[skyjack71 0]

JCW1966 has a personal meaning to me - WHY and how did you come up with JCW1966.

Number one JCW is my initials.
You can tell me this in a personal email so it is not public. I am sure it has no "covert" reason, but I just found it sort of unusual. 1966 is also very very significant.


You know his plane went in only 9 miles from the home I shared with Duane and lived in for 17 yrs. The plane went into a lake in subdivision I had some very personal contacts with and I sold a couple of homes in the area.

I now live 25 miles from that point. At the time I thought how appropriate he went in on the lake in East Milton. That was BIG news in our small communities.

Small world! I just did not engage in the prior discussions at that time, because I try to stay very low key in my community. Why was he targeting the Gulf - that was stupid because almost every incident in the Gulf has resulted in recovery? Stupid miscalulation of fuel only made the inevidentable find happen a little quicker. Wonder where he thought he could parachute into in this area and NOT be detected.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 244]

Quote

Quote

R99 said:

Quote

I agree with your earlier point that he probably had an assistant somewhere along the way to help his escape.

It sure would be hard to egress undetected from your landing area and get back to civilization without getting caught unless you had help from an accomplice.

There is another possibility though. Gossett was in the Army (reserves?) and could have jumped into Ft Lewis (very unilkely to be noticed at night) and blended in. He might have even left a car there and a uniform. Wasn't Ft Lewis consistent with a very early jump post takeoff?

I don't see convincing evidence that Gossett was Cooper, but there are viable Norjack escape plans that could have been pulled off without an accomplice. If Gossett was Cooper his Ft Lewis jump plan didnt work out because the pilots would not take off with the stairs lowered. By the time Cooper got the stairs lowered post takeoff the plane was far away from Ft Lewis.

377

Cooper had an argument with Rataczak about the lowering of the stairs before take-off. Rataczak claimed that they couldn't take-off with the stairs in a partial down position. Cooper finally said to take-off with them up but he told Tina that he knew the airplane could take-off with them down.

The airliner took off towards the south and, about the time it rotated, it passed within about 1000 feet laterally of the Seattle VORTAC from which V-23 runs to the Toledo area.

In proceeding along the centerline of V-23, the airliner would have passed about 1 or 2 statute miles east of McChord AFB base at about 23 statute miles from the SEA VORTAC.

About 5 statute miles further along V-23, the airplane would have passed about 5 statute miles east of Gray AAF at Fort Lewis. Then as it continued along V-23, it would have passed to the east of several restricted areas that are probably part of the Fort Lewis complex.

The boundaries of Fort Lewis are not shown on any map I have, but it appears that from about the McChord AFB area there is nothing in the way of civilization (even today) that Cooper would have to avoid until he got to the Toledo area.

The airplane probably passed McChord about 7 minutes after take-off, and from that point Cooper would have a "window" of about 10-15 minutes to jump and land in a relatively unpopulated area from which he could probably easily slip through the brush into Fort Lewis.

So his goal may have been to land in the Fort Lewis area after dark and that may have been one reason for selecting this specific flight. Since sunset in Seattle that day was a number of minutes before 5:00 PM, and Cooper specified that the money was to be there at a time that was just after sunset, he probably planned to do a night jump all along.

But giving in to Rataczak, in order to get the airplane flying again, loused up a jump into the Fort Lewis area.

Robert

If he is stationed or employed at Ft Lewis they
have a photo ID, his finger prints, a blood workup,
a phsysical description (medical file), etc. But lets
forget all of that for a moment...

Let's assume he has some knowledge. He has
asked for Mexico City. He knows that is impossible.
They tell him Reno. Given the settings he has
asked for he knows fuel is still an issue even to
Reno. Has he now almost assured himself an
interior route (shorter) vs. a coastal route to Reno?

If his goal is Ft Lewis and he misses it, what is
his next best option given visibility issues?
(Towait for Vancouver-Portland and bail there?)
The railroad line at Vancouver will take him
right back north to Ft Lewis.

But, given the specs having been decided and
conveyed to Cooper which includes Reno and a
fuel issue, does Cooper know its going to be an
interior route like V23 vs a coastal route?

There were other flights and other routes he could
have hijacked that day.

[skyjack71 0]

Blevins states:
"There are a fair amount of arguments against the idea of William Gossett as D.B. Cooper"

"But here's the one that convinced me:"

"If you look at the picture of Gossett during his retirement ceremony at Fort Lewis, only 18 months after the hijacking, you see a fat, old guy with hairy arms who looks NOTHING like the hijacker"


Mr. Blevins, I have edited your statements above only to be brief and avoid repetition.

I have to say that I agree with you - and Galen knows my stand on this also, but he trys to keep an open mind. The pictures I noted are distorted from the original ones I viewed before - Gossett was not fat in any of them. I have pictures of Duane that have been distorted by the media and one that his own brother did in sending to me. I do defend the pictures on that basis.

A journalist took the liberty of altering an FBI composite of Cooper to look more like Gossett without removing the FBI file number or noting the composite had been altered. I will defend Galen on this point also as he claimed he had NOTHING to do with that. I believe him on that point.



Blevins states:
"Cook said he recently made contact with Florence Schaffner, one of the flight attendants aboard the hijacked aircraft and an eyewitness to the crime. Schaffner was sent photos of the D.B. Cooper suspect, Bill Gossett (see D.B. Cooper Photos), and told Cook that Gossett looks very much like the man she saw on the plane that day. Schaffner also revealed to Cook that D.B. Cooper had been wearing makeup to darken his skin..."


Mr. Blevin, I again will defend Galen Cook as I warned him that Florence has ID'ed more than one suspect as being Cooper.

As for the Make-up - there was NO make up and NO toupe. The crew is so sick of questions they will feed the writers garbage and this includes you. Perhaps they do not do this intentionally, but then maybe they do? Who knows?

You are correct in stating the facts about make-up. If a woman saw a man with make-up and/or a toupe in 1971 she knew it right away. I was 31 in 1971 and had just divorced my husband - and in 1972 moved to Atlanta, Georgia - believe me when I say this - had Cooper been wearing make-up and/or a toupe - it would have been front page news from day one.


Now let's change colors for $$$'s.

Galen Cook like others has worked hard to uncover the mystery of Who Cooper Really Was...but like yourself he has fallen short as have others over the last 38 yrs. He and I have been at this a lot longer than you have so excuse me if my defending him offends you.

I felt you were another animal altogether - you did not enter this subject with the objective to find Who Cooper Really Was. Your motive was clearly to write a book and make money....and that made you a predator. In your defense since coming to this forum you have become a little more pliable in you attitude about KC....some predators can be tamed with time and patience. At least they learn to accept their circumstances when they are caged, but the instinct of the predator is hard to contain.

I haven't decided exactly which of the predators I would compare you to - not that it matters. You do not sit in wait of your prey and if you had been at this for 14 yrs - you would have starved to death...yet, you hesitate. Perhaps you have acclimated yourself to captivity.


No Need to explain RED:

You did not spend enough time researching the crime, but instead focused on your suspect.
Now you are making up for lost time - but, at the expense of others who have spent yrs and some their lively-hoods on finding Cooper or researching their subject. You have learned more about the actual crime in this thread than you could ever have learned reading every book and news article on Cooper in existence.

I hope you publically acknowledge those who have done the research and the participants of this thread for all of the yrs of hard work you have in only a few months took full advantage of and you need not deny it is not for profit.




I think in the process - you got HOOKED by Cooper himself and know full well your subject is not Cooper, but you had already committed yourself...therefore you will proceed and I do believe you will have an open ending on your book. Only a fool would not leave himself an out - unless he could prove his subject was Cooper.

Maybe the crew and the FBI are doing their own book and/or movie? Ever give that one a thought? Maybe they got tired of being misquoted and their lives being disrupted? Maybe they have been deliberately feeding some of the writers false information? Writers have lofted and posted here before - but, the ending to all of this will come as a big surprise to everyone and NO, I don't know anything and I am not teasing. It is just a GUT feeling or vibrations I am feeling...because of somethings said to me recently.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[hangdiver 1]

Jo, that's a great post. You surprise me with your moments of absolute clarity.
I don't comment much but that post deserves some praise, well done.

ETA: come on Quade...I know people who have been thrown out of the USPA for life and have been reinstated.
I know three personally.
Please let snowmman back on the DZ, even Bill Dause lets people come back to his DZ after told to never come back.
I have been a DZO I know how hard it is to handle whiners. When people whine they expose their buttons and I, like snow, have a hard time not punching their exposed buttons sometimes.
Anyway JMO

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[Farflung 0]

Don’t know if this will catch on, but I said the same thing about bungee jumping, the WheelSurf and Sea Monkeys.

Not quite sure if I was wrong about those things yet.

[377 22]

Brilliant!

I heard you have to scrap a plane after deploying a ballistic rescue chute. Is that true?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[quade 4]

Quote

I heard you have to scrap a plane after deploying a ballistic rescue chute. Is that true?

Would depend greatly on the plane and how it lands. My guess is that few planes are going to end up landing in situations where they aren't damaged considerably. Think about it.

Ballistic parachutes should really only be used in situations where the aircraft is completely out of control anyway; for instance an unrecoverable spin or loss of a flight control surface. A pilot would probably be making a pretty huge mistake to fire it off just for an engine failure since a gliding aircraft is controllable and one under canopy isn't.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[377 22]

I read that one kind (Cirrus?) could not be relicensed after a deployment even if it landed 100% intact. Trying to see if that is just urban aero rumor or fact.

I've heard that this outcome may be responsible for failures to deploy the aircraft chutes when they should have been deployed.

Imagine if you were permanently grounded if you ever came down on a reserve. Bet we'd see a lot of marginal main canopies landed. Not a perfect analogy because its the plane not the pilot which gets grounded, but if you only had liablity and not hull insurance I can see some reluctance to pull silver in that plane.

During a loss of control in VMC: "I'll hold off on the chute for just a few more seconds, I KNOW I can recover this."

Video of flaming wreck coming down under chute after mid air collision:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j86kyoogPvM&feature=related

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Farflung 0]

So here’s my business plan:

Cirrus produces about 285 airframes each year at about half a million per. That totals roughly $142,500,000 retail for the entire production run.

Now, can you think of anyone who has recently spent that much for the thrill of a humiliating loss running for the office of Governor? Yeah that adds some perspective, doesn’t it?

This is the ultimate sport. 377 acknowledged that none of the Paunchous Pilots attended an AFF course. The NTSB files are filled with partially trained celebs and uber-rich pranging one in.

Here is a sport that encourages partial training in two others, Skydiving and General Aviation. What a rush just having to learn to take off and climb at mil power to the service ceiling. I’m getting giddy just thinking about it. Then reaching above my head and grabbing that crimson, T handle and giving it a 60 pound pull to the ignition detent.

Then a rocket is launched pulling that massive chute out, in a full on, ballistic deployment. I’ve got a throbbing diamond cutter now.

Who’s your daddy? That’s right, who’s a Whuffo now? Yeeeee Hawwww!!! Instant, ultra exclusive, sports legend and pioneer just like most race drivers today.

When the FlyDiver lands in the FZ (OK, probably Spyglass or Pebble Beach), they will be met by their valet (let’s call her Pilar or Consuelo) and given a demitasse and a ride to the airport for their next FlyDive.

Who’s the victim here? General Aviation gets a boost they desperately need, Skydiving is elevated in the social stratum and job responsibilities are expanded for valets (like Pilar or Consuelo). Truly a win-win proposition with absolutely no chance of blow back consequences, and that’s with just ONE customer. Imagine when I land Gates and Musk.

[377 22]

A most excellent idea Farflung, like most that you have.

We can get FAA waivers for timed out and non noise compliant biz jets. Hell, why not do some acro in a dirt cheap Lear 23 or 24 and pop the chute when things get out of hand. Crack a spar? No big deal as long as it is above 5000 AGL. We'd have to get some drogue and reefing set ups to avoid high speed chute failures, but the technology is already there in military apps. Load it up with waivered pax and call it a Flydiving Tandem.

There are a lot of good places for an FZ, notably Mojave and Tucson which have a ready suppply of cheap semi airworthy sacrificial airframes.

I've seen timed out 747-100s going for less than a new Cessna 182. Think BIG.

As for the valets and personal assistants, don't risk a lost election by hiring an undocumented person. A local strip club can serve as your hiring hall.

I think Perris can revitalize their flagging DC 9 jumpship operation by offering DBC fantasy tandems. They light up the strip at night, outfit some old Crown Vics with light bars, hire cheap wannabe actors (zillions of em anywhere in So Cal) to play FBI and flight attendant roles. The demands are made, money gets delivered, you confidently down your third Makers Mark, smoke one more Raleigh and let the party begin. It's all shot on HD. With modern editing you could fill the plane with DBC tandems and it could be made to look like you were the only one aboard. If you dress the tandem master in all blue I'll bet you could edit them out too. You'd be the star of your own DBC jump movie.

$2500 a head and the plane doesnt schedule a flight until at least 20 tandems have put down deposits. What do ya think Farflung?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

The nearly 5K I spent on my venture to WA and OR is starting to show dividens - not monetarily, but in validation.

This has been a very very busy day. I have been following up on information I acquired in one localilty. I am taking it day by day and locality by locality. Currently I am working the Biggs, Rufus and The Dalles leads....they are leads because they are all leading in the same direction. Lots of phone calls and lots of emails that followed.
The grill is getting warm and it really heated up to day. I spent almost 2 hours on the phone with one woman and another hour sending her pictures.

What I was looking for the FBI claimed did not exist - did exist, but just what it means is still questionable. Will it prove Duane was Cooper? NO, but it sure increased the likely hood he was. Will anything prove Weber was Cooper? Only if I can put him on that plane.

What can I do at this time - substantiate the things he told me over the yrs...and I am doing that slowly - just wish I had been able to make this trip 10 yrs ago. First you think - God, I got it! Then you have to step back and say - well, I got it but what does it mean? This has been going on for about 7 hrs today. Tomorrow I will still be working the same places - and because it is the wk-end I doubt I will make much progress.

I realize now there are places I should have gone to, but didn't. I just didn't have the money to spend 3 days or a wk going around and checking records at all of the mulitple places I had to visit.

Could use the help of some of you jumpers on history, but until I learn more I cannot throw names out there and destory reputations. I have seen that done too many times in the thread. Would like to throw something at the old timers through PM's and with PM replies. This is area specific Old Time sky jumper questions - regarding OR and WA....WW11 until 1960.

Any volunteers can PM me.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 244]

one that makes me believe

[Amazon 7]

Quote

one that makes me believe

In an early statement you made you were
somewhat critical of the Citizens Science Group.
Could you expand on this? What would you have
liked the CSG to do, results you expected or wanted,
etc ? This is a serious question if you care to
elaborate your previous comments - this isnt a
trick question and you will not be graded. Im
looking for input ...

G