DB Cooper

[skyjack71 0]

The FBI did NOT listen to me yrs ago and they will probably NOT listen now...but, here I go with some things I tried to tell them and no one would listen.

Couer d'Alene, ID.

The FBI needs to recheck or to check (for the 1st time) the local arrest records in these areas. If they did they were looking for a man named Duane L. Weber or one of his other aliases...but, Duane was in the area. Since the McNeil file is basically useless per the family stories...they need to check the dates from June of 1945 to 1950. Then the records from 1957 to 1960. Then again the yrs 1961 - thur 1968 (I know you guys are thinking I have the dates wrong), but I don't.

The fact that the McNeil record is inaccurate was enough for me NOT to trust the system as it existed back in those days. Yes, he was at McNeil - but, only passed thru there and not in the facility itself.

There was an area near Coeur d'Alene called Hayden and south of that area is Mosow. There are 2 small towns near by Palouse WA and Potlatch, ID.

The 1957 St. Pete article caused me to re-examine everything Duane told me over the yrs. This is part of that exploration and I have already made some inquiries of my own. When Duane told me about these areas this was one of the few time he said "I". "I can never go back there" and when I asked why - the answer was just "I just got in some trouble there". When I asked the reason - he changed the subject and never told me WHY.

Back in those days I don't know if they did fingerprints with all arrests and of course if his fingerprints are on file there - no computers.. and little sharing of county arrest records.

Whatever it was - it was enough that he knew he could NEVER go back...which makes me feel the reason might NOT go back as far as the 40's.

I did share this with the FBI back in 1996, but it fell on deaf ears and the "young" FBI just didn't get it - how easy it was to hide in those days and to just disappear.

Ask yourself WHY Duane would NOT be able to ever go back to those places as late as 1979 unless there was something there that would connect him to the 1971 incident? Maybe someone in that area was able put him in a chute.

Do I already have the answers?
Maybe! And if I do - it is time for the FBI to do what they should have done 14 yrs ago.

I currently have NO reason to interfer in any of your discussions, but if Carr is lofting here - HA, HA, HA! He was just too arrogant to listen and I was just that crazy old lady the FBI was ordered NOT to listen to.

CARR told me the DNA "excused" Duane - and he was on his way to a press conference. NOTE: he did not say excluded. You can excuse someone from the room but if you exclude them they have been expelled....Weber was never excluded or expelled from the suspect list. In fact they may not even have Weber's DNA.
There is only one item that will positively have Weber's DNA and Sluggo know what that item is.

Blevins, if the FBI will not talk to you or to the history channel, the book is in serious trouble. Wonder why? You hinted that the History Channel found something during its own investigation - but, you never mentioned what it was....did they even TELL you what it was?

Get the Latest Cooper News at the DZ.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[quade 4]

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The Wisdom of the Ages includes the facts that the law of gravity still works for one an all and that water runs downhill.

The problem with that is, it means nothing.

If you assume that the money at Tina's Bar stayed attached to DB Cooper all the way to where he cratered, then maybe all you have to do is sweep the entire area upstream of that point, which is seriously ridiculous.

However, the real problem is to assume the money at Tina's Bar stayed attached to DB Cooper all the way to his point of impact, which, while not 100% impossible also isn't 100% likely.

In fact, it's entirely possible these particular bills slipped out of his hands while packing up the bag and fell out of the plane miles and miles away from where he exited.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[quade 4]

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'In fact, it's entirely possible these particular bills slipped out of his hands while packing up the bag and fell out of the plane miles and miles away from where he exited...'

Quade: If the money had just 'fallen', it wouldn't have been found all in the same place.

I'm not suggesting individual bills fell or even individual straps (100 bills), but rather an entire bank bundle ($20,000) may have become separated from the rest.

One of the major flaws in almost any heist movie is respect for the weight of whatever it is that the crooks are stealing. For instance, in the Batman movie with Heath Ledger as Joker, in an early scene, he's causally flipping huge duffle bags of money into the back of the bus. Well, a duffle bag full of money is going to weigh quite a bit. Unless The Joker is a hell of a lot stronger than he looks, those bags were essentially empty.

22 pounds of extra whatever strapped to a single point while also wearing these old school parachutes would make for an "interesting" time.

A smart and skydive savvy DB Cooper might have opted to distribute the weight and literally not place all his eggs in one basket.

What I'm suggesting may have happened, is it's entirely possible that in rigging up, a "bank bundle" of bills got out of his control.

Think about it another way, IF DB Cooper survived, then how did that money get there? Certainly a DB Cooper that survived wouldn't leave it there intentionally. The money would have had to have simply gotten out of his control. The most reasonable explanation is it happened either during his gearing up or during his descent, but it's perfectly clear to me that if Cooper survived, he didn't just drop the money and decide not to pick it up. If a live DB Cooper could have lost the money, then so too could the Cooper that cratered.

Again, I don't put a whole lot of stock in Tina's Bar being all that definitive as an indication where Cooper may have cratered/landed.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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[Robert99 50]

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'In fact, it's entirely possible these particular bills slipped out of his hands while packing up the bag and fell out of the plane miles and miles away from where he exited...'

Quade: If the money had just 'fallen', it wouldn't have been found all in the same place.

I'm not suggesting individual bills fell or even individual straps (100 bills), but rather an entire bank bundle ($20,000) may have become separated from the rest.

One of the major flaws in almost any heist movie is respect for the weight of whatever it is that the crooks are stealing. For instance, in the Batman movie with Heath Ledger as Joker, in an early scene, he's causally flipping huge duffle bags of money into the back of the bus. Well, a duffle bag full of money is going to weigh quite a bit. Unless The Joker is a hell of a lot stronger than he looks, those bags were essentially empty.

22 pounds of extra whatever strapped to a single point while also wearing these old school parachutes would make for an "interesting" time.

A smart and skydive savvy DB Cooper might have opted to distribute the weight and literally not place all his eggs in one basket.

What I'm suggesting may have happened, is it's entirely possible that in rigging up, a "bank bundle" of bills got out of his control.

Think about it another way, IF DB Cooper survived, then how did that money get there? Certainly a DB Cooper that survived wouldn't leave it there intentionally. The money would have had to have simply gotten out of his control. The most reasonable explanation is it happened either during his gearing up or during his descent, but it's perfectly clear to me that if Cooper survived, he didn't just drop the money and decide not to pick it up. If a live DB Cooper could have lost the money, then so too could the Cooper that cratered.

Again, I don't put a whole lot of stock in Tina's Bar being all that definitive as an indication where Cooper may have cratered/landed.

Quade, Tina said that Cooper was tieing the money bag to his waist the last time she saw him. That means he had secured the loot, except for maybe a small amount that he stuck in his rain coat pockets. The stairs had not been lowered at that point.

As Robert Blevins points out, if Cooper had lost some of the money during his descent, it would have been scattered any number of miles by the wind which was from the southwest at about 26 knots (at 10,000 feet) that evening. If the money landed at Tina Bar as a result of the wind, Cooper's jump point would have been 10+ miles southwest of there and well into Oregon.

The only sensible flight path for the airliner would have been to fly almost straight south (with respect to the grid lines) from the Toledo, WA area to the point reported as 27 DME miles south of the present day Battleground VORTAC on V-23. Such a flight path would have taken the aircraft almost directly over Tina Bar.

The much hyped idea of a flight path passing east of Portland is utter nonsense since it would have added about 10 to 15 nautical miles to the distance to Reno at the very time the flight crew didn't know if they had sufficient fuel to get there in the first place.

And weather was not a factor in this flight. The only weather the flight crew was informed of before taking off from Seattle was some haze south of Portland. And the airliner did encounter some light ice in that area. But Captain Bohan's famous 80 knot winds from the southeast at 14,000 feet are pure bunk. At 10,000 feet, the airliner only encountered the 26 knot winds from the southwest mentioned above.

Robert

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[Farflung 0]

Yes, the investigation into the Cooper toupee that Kenny refused to wear after Nov 1971 continues to gain momentum. This may prove to be as accurate as the Dan Cooper comic observed in the day room in 1951. Let’s all say a silent prayer for such an outcome.

Now I’ve discovered numerous attachment systems for Kenny’s toupee(s). Tape, glue or some sort of freakish alien weaving rounds out the candidates. All of which I will go into some of the most painful detail ever imagined.

You won’t believe that people actually put tape on their gourds that holds the front of their rug in order to look cool and hunky. But they do. Don’t we all start our day with some coffee while placing an adhesive strip across the forehead; then possibly going for a ‘quickie’? How could anyone resist such charms? I’m feeling funny down there just thinking about it.

The glue slays me. I guess one just slathers their head with the brush in bottle applicator and presses the chick magnet in place. I think huffing the glue in a small paper bag would produce a far better outcome and leave me not giving a crap about what is glued to the top of my head. According to the bottle this glue will last 3 to 6 weeks.

The weave is for people who want to make small children cry. An appliance is attached to the barren scalp which is tied to existing hair. The toupee is sewn to the skull cap holding the hairpiece in place for several months.

Not only does this latest information enlighten one about the bald Cooper the FBI talked about which has convinced everyone that he wore a toupee; there is a new source for holding bundles of money together.

Kenny may have been in the lavatory swabbing glue on his head and ooops; he’s got glue all over his hands. He reaches for the nearest paper source and uses three bundles of money to wipe off his hands. The money was held together with toupee glue which could easily withstand the windblast if Kenny’s toupee stayed on for his jump. Occam rules again.

There is still so much to learn about toupees. Much more to follow on this vital element of the DB Cooper story.

[quade 4]

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The bundles were packaged as 100 bills per bundle, or $2,000 each bundle, although some varied by a few bills one way or another. The $5,800 found was probably three separate bundles.

Terminology issue here.

100 bills wrapped with a rubber band is a "strap."
10 straps is a "bank bundle."

This is how money is typically grouped for ease of counting by banks.
Source; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency_strap

And while Tina may have said she saw him tying the bag to his waist, she definitely didn't see the final configuration as he exited the aircraft.

I still think the idea of tying a 22 pound bag of money around your waist is a bad one if we consider Cooper to be an experienced skydiver. Try this, take a bag and stuff it with newspapers until it weighs 22 pounds. Then, take some 550 cord and tie it around your waist. Then, hop up and down.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[airtwardo 7]

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The bundles were packaged as 100 bills per bundle, or $2,000 each bundle, although some varied by a few bills one way or another. The $5,800 found was probably three separate bundles.

Terminology issue here.

100 bills wrapped with a rubber band is a "strap."
10 straps is a "bank bundle."

This is how money is typically grouped for ease of counting by banks.

And while Tina may have said she saw him tying the bag to his waste, she definitely didn't see the final configuration as he exited the aircraft.

I still think the idea of tying a 22 pound bag of money around your waist is a bad one if we consider Cooper to be an experienced skydiver. Try this, take a bag and stuff it with newspapers until it weighs 22 pounds. Then, take some 550 cord and tie it around your waist. Then, hop up and down.

Then imagine opening shock on a round, out of a jet...

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Guru312 0]

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Then imagine opening shock on a round, out of a jet...

Of course!

This is the part the whuffos here simply do not grasp: tying a bulky, 22 pound package using 550 cord around/to/on a harness is not a trivial thing to do.

Tying it to withstand opening shock from an unsleeved round would be damn close to impossible to do single-handedly. In fact, it wouldn't be easy to do with a second pair of hands.

Tying it securely alone: extremely unlikely.

Whether DB cratered or if he limped away from a hard landing, it wasn't with a package full of money.

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

[airtwardo 7]

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Then imagine opening shock on a round, out of a jet...

Of course!

This is the part the whuffos here simply do not grasp: tying a bulky, 22 pound package using 550 cord around/to/on a harness is not a trivial thing to do.

Tying it to withstand opening shock from an unsleeved round would be damn close to impossible to do single-handedly. In fact, it wouldn't be easy to do with a second pair of hands.

Tying it securely alone: extremely unlikely.

Whether DB cratered or if he limped away from a hard landing, it wasn't with a package full of money.

And with wearing 'street' shoes, probably limped away in socks only!


What I've thought ~ and posted once in the thread.



...that either the container ripped 1/2 off, and/or ripped open during the exit or deployment...maybe only one side broke, letting the contents 'spill' out instead of falling away as a big clump.

The $$ may have fallen in a 'path' similar to a bombing run, might kind of explain both how some, but not all, was found neatly together at the bar, and why none of the rest has ever been spent or recovered...

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[airtwardo 7]

This is some of the text taken from a pm today with a poster on this thread asking about these subjects~




What Quade is implying is that with 20 lbs 'tied' onto one's body or even the harness there is more than just a possibility that some if not all of the items tied on could break free.

When a parachute opens the wearer experiences quite a g load from the deceleration...speed of the opening of course dictates the load.

The round parachute that is being discussed, would have opened rather fast and hard...especially if deployed right after exit.

The g load if I remember correctly can easily exceed 50g's, it doesn't kill because it's only for a fraction of a second but simple physics would lead one to question whether a string with a tensile strength of 550 pounds would be enough to secure a 20 pound package at that g load.

When i perform demonstration jumps I commonly use a container very similar to what's being discussed here, with 25 pounds of flag within.

These containers are attached with the exact same hardware and in the same way a front mounted reserve would be attached on an older style rig...my harnesses are custom manufactured explicitly for this purpose.

Many demo jumpers thought for a time, simply attaching a flag container to their chest-strap would do the same job...it doesn't, if the jumper takes the freefall to terminal velocity the load on their chest strap reaches limits it was never designed to take and often the stitching begins to tear out, those straps are usually rated in the 2500lb range...so you can see how 550 cord may have failed in this instance.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Farflung 0]

Very true about the viewpoint a whuffo would have about 550 cord and its application.

His use of items in the plane makes Cooper look like a ‘shoe clerk’ also.

Most people have seen a flight attendant demonstrate the use of the seatbelt and O2 mask. Believe it or not, there are dozens of seat belt extensions throughout the airframe. I would prefer that as an attaching accessory over some shroud cord any day. I’m too lazy to cut some cord and too stupid to tie a good knot.

The plane also had some chart or flight cases (pardon me, common sample cases) in the cockpit. One would have provided ample volume for the cash. Much easier to secure and extremely robust in construction.

Now there are some more toys in the sand box to consider. Not knowing the physics of jumping with a bank bag, perhaps some jumpers could ‘MacGyver’ some suggestions for the way a person with jump and flight experience would have problem solved attaching the loot.

[airtwardo 7]

Okay...just to satisfy my curiosity~

I just took a 20 pound bag of lead shot, put it in an ammo can, tied a 4 corner wrap around the can using 550 cord... then tied about a 10 inch section cut separately, in a loop to the wrap on the can and to a length of chain.

I attached the chain about 15 feet up a tree (12 foot chain) and tossed the can down.

The 550 broke...but not where or how I'd expected.

It pulled up tight enough to bend the can where those lines contacted it, but it actually broke at the point of the upper knot at the chain...looks like it pulled that knot extremely tight and the line at the point of entrance to the knot itself just exploded...Bowline...the rabbit ain't coming outta the hole!

Scratch one ammo can!

This really tells us nothing in regard to the hi-jacking...there are just too many possible and unknown variables involved to replicate the bag attachment.

It does show me that one piece of 550 can't handle the force I exposed it too...and that I maybe shouldn't have used a good ammo can!


...sure hope I didn't 'flat-side' any of the shot in the bag.



My only point...and hey, you guys know more about the details than I do...is that there has to be a reason none of the money was ever spent, the most likely reason (to me) is that it became separated from Cooper...who BTW I believe survived the jump.

Remember...during the D-day jump, some but not all of the jumpers lost their weapon when the parachute opened. 6 pound M1 carbines and 9 pound M1 Grands both were enough to break the double attachment lines securing them to the troopers. And those T-10's jumped from C47's were opening half as fast as a C9 out of a jet.

Wonder if I had a toupee, I could snuggle Carol Doda and the twins?! ...

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

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The bundles were packaged as 100 bills per bundle, or $2,000 each bundle, although some varied by a few bills one way or another. The $5,800 found was probably three separate bundles.

On a side note, Donald Nyrop's obituary from the New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/28/business/28nyrop.html?hpw

Mr Blevins,

Where did you find that the money was packaged that way?

Ckret posted that it was "ransom money", set up at the bank with the numbers recorded and bundled into irregular sized packs to make it look like it was hastily assembled.

I looked for that info, couldn't find it.

BUT, while looking, I found the descripiton of the training dummy reserve.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=2540834;page=30;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[skyjack71 0]

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A smart and skydive savvy DB Cooper might have opted to distribute the weight and literally not place all his eggs in one basket.

All his Eggs in one Basket! The phrase Duane Weber used over and over and over. One he learned to live his life with.

Study the photo I posted of Duane standing by that swimming pool. I knew Duane's body and I have pictures of him in bathing suits. When my daughter saw that picture for the first time after I acquired it - she asked -"What does he have under that Jacket?"

Duane did NOT have a broad chest nor a barrel chest.

The magazine he left in that safe deposit box explains how part of the money went out of that plane. The frontal pack they never found may also have been utilized....as a package. Tina only saw him tying something around his waist - what the container was has NOT been revealed. Did she see the cords around the outside of his jacket and overcoat? If she saw him tying "the package" over his jacket and coat - would that make sense to any of you jumpers?

Did he remove his coat and what exactly was he fastening to his body? Remember that money did NOT go out of that plane in a Whitish Bank Bag - that bag was placed in something else...it was too clean and not soiled.

If guys can jump with 50lbs of the stuff the guys jumped with in DuBop - Cooper could jumped with 20 lbs distributed in 3 different packages. He had some kind of chest container under that jacket and someone he knew very well made him a waist container - similar to a money belt, but more on the line of what we now call a Fanny Pac...the rest was in the container provided by Tina or the FBI.




A TV documentary show attended the Ariel celebrations hoping to interview Blevins or Porteous.
This was NOT the History Channel, but rumored to be something like "Forensic Files" or "Court TV". I do not know how accurate this information is or if it is a hoax to entertain me.

After neither Porteous or Blevins showed up the crew decided that the Christianson story must be a fraud and their documentary will treat is as such.

This story was funny to me because Duane Weber was discussed as a serious suspect by this group - so I have been told.

HOW MANY DOCUMENTARIES are coming out in January and HOW MANY BOOKS are on the publishing agenda for 2011?

Most importantly what is the FBI doing and what do they have to say? Also if these people actually did show up at in Ariel - who were they and who do they really represent? Maybe "Hoax Busters"!



Whoever or Whatever - it makes no difference! I just would like to see ONE program out there with the FACTs of the case entact, without all the "Myths" incorporated.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

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Study the photo I posted of Duane standing by that swimming pool. I knew Duane's body and I have pictures of him in bathing suits. When my daughter saw that picture for the first time after I acquired it - she asked -"What does he have under that Jacket?"

1. A vacuum packed 26 ft Navy Conical.

2. A VERY large screwdriver.

3. Someone else's wallet.

Can we vote?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Amazon 7]

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Study the photo I posted of Duane standing by that swimming pool. I knew Duane's body and I have pictures of him in bathing suits. When my daughter saw that picture for the first time after I acquired it - she asked -"What does he have under that Jacket?"

1. A vacuum packed 26 ft Navy Conical.

2. A VERY large screwdriver.

3. Someone else's wallet.

Can we vote?

377

Hey it could be one of those concealed rigs like Gene Hackman jumped in Gypsy Moths.

[377 22]

I've got over a hundred C9 jumps and I too thought that Coopers opening shock would be severe. Then Snowmman did some freeze frames from the Air America 727 S/L jumps. The canopies squidded and deployed relatively slowly. I was surprised. It made me rethink my assumptions.

Let's say Cooper knew a lot about those jumps. He'd know you could jump a 737 AND that you could deploy a C9 right off the stairs without a sleeve and not suffer a horrible opening shock.

Quade raises an issue that I don't even like to think about, but it's VERY possible: that Cooper lost ALL the money during the jump and landed with no loot. Can you imagine? That would be such a serious bummer. If the money was in a bag/container of some sorts and it detached in the violence of the jump, it could fit the known facts. Some money could have separated from the bag before it hit the ground or body of water.

I don't have much sympathy for crooks but the thought of Cooper landing in the cold rain and realizing that he had lost all of the money really is pitiful.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

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Hey it could be one of those concealed rigs like Gene Hackman jumped in Gypsy Moths.

Love that movie!

Of course Gene didn't really do any jumping

Have any stars done their own jump stunts? Any who are capable?

I read that Tom Cruise did solo freefalls for fun but never in his movies. Is that true?

Then there is that famous female porn star who is an experienced skydiver and used to jump at Elsinore as I recall.

I love Point Break too. Some of the jump photography is stunning. I just wish we really had five minute freefalls from 14K and could chat on the way down like Johnny Utah.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[airtwardo 7]

Patrick Swayze jumped some for Point Break and yes Tom Cruise was jumping at De land while I was there once, he was there with Nicole Kidman while they were filming Days Of Thunder...I reminded him of it a few years back when I saw him playing with his P-51 in L.A.

Nicole Sheridan is the porn star I believe you are refering to, both she and hubby post on this site.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[skyjack71 0]

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Let me re-quote the MOST important passage of what I frankly consider to be tripe:

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'...rumored to be something like "Forensic Files" or "Court TV". I do not know how accurate this information is or if it is a hoax to entertain me...'

Then you shouldn't be repeating it. You don't have a source, you don't know the name of the alleged 'show', you even admit it might be a hoax created to 'entertain you'. This is the most likely explanation.

Since you already admit that what you were told could be a rumor, then it's obvious your assumption about those programs writing off Christiansen as a hoax was very likely made up...BY YOU.

Your credibility has suffered enough. You are just making things worse on yourself. Next you'll be claiming Bigfoot was the hijacker's accomplice on the ground.

I guess you will just have to WAIT and SEE if I am Hoaxing you. If you knew anything about me you would know I don't do things like that. I did admitted that this was second hand information and I didn't know if it was true or not, therefore I was hot hurting my credibility in any way.

If it is information coming from another source I make sure my ass is covered, but this source was highly creditable and I had an interesting 1 hour phone call with another person about the same thing last night. Media are no longer allowed to do Documentaries at the Bar and Grill in Ariel, but they are welcome to come to the party, but not to interfer with business or hinder the activities.

One young man did have a video carmera, but he was a young man from WA who wants to be a news writer. If you or Porteous where they - you DID not sign in.

Dan Cooper was there! REALLY!
He signed in.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

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Study the photo I posted of Duane standing by that swimming pool. I knew Duane's body and I have pictures of him in bathing suits. When my daughter saw that picture for the first time after I acquired it - she asked -"What does he have under that Jacket?"

1. A vacuum packed 26 ft Navy Conical.

2. A VERY large screwdriver.

3. Someone else's wallet.

Can we vote?

377

Hey it could be one of those concealed rigs like Gene Hackman jumped in Gypsy Moths.

Your are Funny! Had to have been a very large wallet.

Seriously though the photo has always puzzled me!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

I have been in contact with another witness who puts the plane right in the area East of Lake Merwin, Amboy, Kelly Rd and Heison.

This makes 8 witnesses I have talked to or talked to their friends and relatives (a couple of these were deceased). This westerly flight path some of you are tooting did NOT happen. When you have 5 known sitings along Kelly Rd from just EAST of 503 and just south of Chelathie Mill who told their stories to the FBI and none were ever acknowledged.

This last witness is of a firm opinion the FBI knows exactly where the plane was and the FBI or anyone else trying to convince the public the plane passed West of the actual route near Yale Lake, Chelatchie, Kelly Rd. and Heisson has a motive.

There were according to 3 of the witnesses I spoke to many others came forward, but the FBI never acknowledged them. I was told they were made to feel VERY uncomfortable by the FBI and many DID NOT continue figuring it would all come out in the wash.

Some of these people were AFRAID to speak up and they are telling why they did not pursue it in 1971. In the late 70's and early 70's there was TAKING of land in that area (I don't understand what this old lady was talking about and I am just repeating what she said). The state or the government could just declare the land was theirs for whatever reason...and this is no longer being done.

I do know there is a legal process to do this, but what she was referring to sounded more like "threats" coming from FBI agents. I heard this same statement from 2 others as to why some witnesses did not recontact the government.

So far every witness is CLAIMING the plane was lower than 5K, but none of them are qualified to make that statement. I always explain the layering of the clouds making the planes seem and sound closer than they are...2 of them have argued they "know who how high that plane was" and it was not more than 5k around the Amboy area and S.E. of there near Heison.

Yes, the plane did gain altitude upon approaching the Vancouver area. But all of these people saw the SAME and or heard the same plane. All of this fluctuation of the route and the altitude of the plane has been stated only to keep the "talk" away from the focal points. A myth that was created to in my opinion intentionally become fact...as it almost had because so many of the witnesses have died.

As for the hand cars - again another person told me about this . In 1971 the mill was still open and there was a private rail in the area -- there was also a private logging bridge above there with dirt roads - hauling the wood in and out to the rails.

There were rails NOT on the map (owned by the timber company) in that area and have been removed. The bridge was destroyed due to a flood.

I need to get this old timers accounting on tape. Anyone got 5 K the can spare? I need to go back to WA! Just joking I am not physically able to make the trip ever again...but, I am NOT being quiet and I will continue to investigate until the FBI coughs up Cooper or I die.


The more I learn the more I am coming to believe the FBI had NO jurisdiction over this and WAS dictated to by the CIA....then I fall into the Knoss class! I chose to try to put room between myself and that type of theory, but the acquiring of recent information (other than what is stated above) is starting to SCREAM "involvement by concealment" by our own government with the Washington FBI "instructed", but NOT instrumental in this activity after the fact.

Damn - now I start to sound like Knoss, Bruce and others with the CIA and other "secret stuff". I really "try" to steer away from that hoping for better co-operation from the FBI, but like the skydivers - things just pull you down and there is nothing you can do about it ... believe it is called gravity!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Orange1 0]

Quote

1. A vacuum packed 26 ft Navy Conical.

2. A VERY large screwdriver.

3. Someone else's wallet.

Can we vote?

377

Well, from everything we know about Duane, Occam's Razor implies #3.

I don't often disagree with you 377, but I do disagree with you re it being a "pity" if Cooper lost the money. It wasn't his to start off with. Should a criminal be more "entitled' to his ill-gotten proceeds because of his means of getting them? If Duane jumped out a plane with someone else's coat would that be better than just swiping it out a restaurant?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[skyjack71 0]

The men waiting for Blevins had some very good question outlined to ask Blevins because they believe him to be a fraud. YES, they are with a TV program!

Question:
Blevins didn't know the date of the Cooper anniversary, but he was letting everyone on DZ know about his appearance at least a month before the event?

The Cooper Shindig always falls on the Last Saturday in Nov with the exception of one or two yrs.

Still - Blevins talked about the event for a month - HOW and WHY would he miss it? Maybe PR talked it over and decided it was NOT a good thing right now. He claimes he is not here to toot his book, but his posts are not conveying that message.

NOW FOR THE TRIVIA

[RED]The Ariel Bar and Grill in WA was offered the backstairs of the US 467 before it was all cut up for scrap...but, it was going to cost money she probably didn't have in those days. The shipping alone would have been out of site.[/RED]

I wonder how much of the fact and trivia we post here will be incorporated into Blevins book?
We can at least hope he gets some of the facts correct.

Should his book on Christiansen try to down play other suspects he looses. He has to remember that he is writing about a subject he never personally knew and it would be in his best interest to leave an open ending.

I feel sorry for the victims - the men and women who have been pulled into this Christiansen story. I myself have told about people Duane knew, but I haven't taken them before National TV or put them in a book...Too much time had passed for me to try to get written statements (I also thought the FBI was investigating and talking to these people until 2000) and I wasn't looking or poking around for a "story".


QUESTION:

Folks since I do NOT want to read or go toFACE BK (I just stay as far from that as possible). Has Blevins embraced Knoss's story? Or is he there to toot his book? You can PM me if you wish - don't have a clue why I even care.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

Quote

The more I learn the more I am coming to believe the FBI had NO jurisdiction over this and WAS dictated to by the CIA....then I fall into the Knoss class! I chose to try to put room between myself and that type of theory, but the acquiring of recent information (other than what is stated above) is starting to SCREAM "involvement by concealment" by our own government with the Washington FBI "instructed", but NOT instrumental in this activity after the fact.

Jo,

The CIA has done some wacky far out stuff (MK Ultra, remote viewing experiments etc) ) but I cant for the world see why they would have been involved in Norjack. It has all the earmarks of a real crime and none of a covert govt operation. Forget the conspiracy theory stuff. It is a dead end and a convenient excuse for not finding evidence.

This crime is solvable. It will just take time and some luck. The answers are not in Langley VA. Remember, its a pride thing for the FBI. They DO want the case solved, but understandably wont commit resources to it now because it is stale and there is no currrent threat. If I were running the FBI I'd put a few highly motivated agents on it, but that's not rational. Thsi is crime history, not active crime.

How about some responses to the Air America 727 canopy deployment videos that Snow edited? Those do not look like slammer openings to me.

And what about Sheridan Peterson? USMC combat vet, Boeing employee in tech publications during 727 rollout period, accomplished skydiver with night jumps, USFS smoke jumper in NW, jumped in Viet Nam (as a civilan), HUGE grudge against the US Govt over atrocities he saw in Viet Nam, probably was short on $$ in 71, resembles the sketches, wrote a protest novel with subtle Norjack parallels, etc

Pete's alibi is that he was living in a mud hut in Nepal during the skyjack. The FBI didnt rule him out until they got his DNA. What if the tie DNA did not belong to Cooper?

On the other side Pete has zero criminal history and seems to be an honest guy. His stories about old school skydiving check out, including his early use of bat wings and his stories about jumping from Vietnamese military H19 helos in Nam as a civilian.

And what about Ted Braden? Why is he ruled out? Eye color? Height? Highly qualified to do the job (SOG jumper in Nam) , criminal history, needed money, was a fugitive, etc.

Jo, you seem to think the FBI was intimidating witnesses and trying to get them to change their story about seeing the NWA 727 over certain areas.
Why would they care about those stories? What difference would it make? Cooper wasnt found so the witness flight path stories are kinda irrelevant.

I also question whether the witnesses could identify the plane type they saw given its altitude, night, rain and scattered clouds. I am a plane nut and I have 20-10 corrected eysight. I have a very hard time identifying airliners at night under conditions far more favorable than those witnesses had during the Norjack flight.

Drop all the conspiracy theories and focus on the hard evidence. Conspiracy theories are rat holes Jo. Every time you get stumped you can blame it on a cover up. Investigations usually get nowhere with this method of analysis.

Still waiting for you to put Duane in a chute. A spoken remark near Ft Benning doesnt cut it. I wonder how seriously the Army was checking IDs in WW 2. There are so many authentic stories of underaged soldiers and airmen making it in and staying in.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.