DB Cooper

[377 22]

Blevins wrote:

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If this were 1972 and Kenny Christiansen had been arrested and put on trial with everything we have on him right now, he would need a very good defense lawyer and he would have a LOT of explaining to do.

He wouldn't have to explain anything at all. In fact, I'd advise him not to testify. He could remain silent and the jury will be instructed by the judge to make no adverse inferences from his silence. Unless they found some hot twenties in his possession there is zero evidence directly tieing KC to the hijacked 727. You might be able to work up a pretty good tax evasion case against him, but not skyjacking.

Conviction requires proof beyond a reasonable doubt and a unanimous jury verdict. I don't see how you'd ever get that in a prosecution of KC based on the evidence you have uncovered so far.

I'd bring a pre trial motion to dismiss based on the FBIs failure to preserve possibly exculpatory evidence, the Raleigh butts that had samples of Coopers DNA. I'll bet it would be granted unless there was some highly probative evidence that put KC on the plane.

Remember that today, accomplices are probably home free under the expired statute of limitations. If the trial were held after the statute had run, KC could be the guy on the ground. Unless the FBI could put him in the plane he'd walk.

Robert, does your legal advisor concur?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

http://gothamist.com/2010/12/03/video_rc_plane_flies_over_the_city.php

Search the Washougal with this.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

Quade:

HELP!

What happened to the size of the text in the forum. It got so little I can't read it. Is it something with my computer or the site?

My daughter said the same thing happened with Face Book and they got so many complaints they reverted back.

Most people over 50 can't read the small print.

I am find this when I search certain sites, but my email has stayed the size it was.

Is this something I have done or is this going to be universal with all computer sites now?

Or DID my eyes just go out on me the last few days. Anyone else experiencing this or is it me and my computer?

First it was the print on the shampoo and the ingredients on everything. Now it is the computer.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[fcolorado 0]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m09bN4kRj-s&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

[nigel99 476]

It is your computer. The site is fine.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[Orange1 0]

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She has...

I haven't...

..... YET!

But when the orange one [orange1] tells you to do it... you have to... it's some kind of law or something!

Well in that case Sluggo - GO JUMP!!! Post pics/video when you're done

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

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Skyjack71

Your 'sources' mean nothing if you can't establish the credibility of the source. Just your say-so does not make your statements fact.

And you can say this until you're blue in the face, and it won't sink in.
There are so many holes in the "night clerk" story, but he says what she wants to hear, so she believes him. As she said herself - all she has is emotions and personal involvement.

Just like Sluggo, bless his heart, tries and tries and still gets nowhere with trying to make her see where she is going wrong.

And now the Orange1 sceptism: instead of the imminent revelation we were promised, we apparently will see the FBI "destroy" the proof. (Which wasn't supposed to reside with them in the first instance.) Very convenient isn't it?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Amazon 7]

Jo you probably adjusted it by mistake. Sometimes it does that when you roll the wheel on the mouse while in the browser...

Try this http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/main/adjust.html

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

We have talked a lot about various folks who think their uncle, father, brother, etc. might have been D.B.

It never ceases to amaze me how little “evidence” leads them to this conclusion.

The following link has a simple statement:
"... "We thought he was D.B. Cooper," said Gehring, referring to the famous hijacker who disappeared after parachuting from a flight, likely over Washington state, in 1971. ..."

I wonder what the basis for such a statement would be?

Land that belonged to 'Unabomber' for sale

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[Sluggo_Monster 0]

In trying to figure out why the sawmill owner thought that Kaczynski might have been DB, I found some I-net sites (that means questionable) that indicate that the FBI case-name “Unabomber” was a contraction of “university and airline bomber”.

That’s odd since ol’ Ted never bombed an airliner.

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[Orange1 0]

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In trying to figure out why the sawmill owner thought that Kaczynski might have been DB, I found some I-net sites (that means questionable) that indicate that the FBI case-name “Unabomber” was a contraction of “university and airline bomber”.

That’s odd since ol’ Ted never bombed an airliner.

Apparently not for lack of trying though:

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From 1978 to 1995, Kaczynski sent 16 bombs to targets including universities and airlines, killing three people and injuring 23.

And there are a number of aspects in one simple sentence here that dovetail nicely with what we know about Cooper!!

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In 1971, he moved to a remote cabin without electricity or running water, in Lincoln, Montana, where he lived as a recluse while learning survival skills

note the:
1971
remote cabin
Montana
survival skills

(I daresay if these applied to certain other candidates they would be offered as proof! And no I am not arguing for him. Seems to have been a very bright guy though...)

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Farflung 0]

Come on now Sluggo Monster, what about American Airlines 444? Although it was a ‘trend’ of one.

With 20/20 hindsight, I think they should have called him the ‘UnaBerkleyChicagoEnviron’ Bomber since his targets all seems to cluster in those areas.

They should have been looking for a veteran with experience with ordinance since there were bombs and no one could possibly teach themselves how to make one of those things.

Obviously, since there was never a ransom demand, the Unabomber was very wealthy. They should have looked for a well off, veteran.

Plus, did you read his manifest? Man could that guy talk. So using the DB Cooper forum logic stream; the FBI should have been targeting a gregarious, explosives veteran who was independently wealthy and wore a toupee.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Good catch orange1, I found some more stuff.

Chicago, Illinois
June 10, 1980
United Airlines President Percy Wood receives cuts and burns from a package bomb disguised as a book and delivered by mail to his home in Lake Forest, Illinois, near Chicago.


Auburn, Washington
June 13, 1985
A parcel bomb, mailed on May 8 to the Boeing Company's Fabrication Division, is discovered when employees open it. The device is deactivated by a bomb squad. No one is injured.


Chicago, Illinois
November 15, 1979
A bomb explodes in a mailbag in the cargo hold of an American Airlines flight traveling from Chicago to Washington. Twelve people suffer smoke inhalation. The plane makes an emergency landing at Dulles Airport near Washington.

But, I got the sense that the sawmill owner and his wife were talking about Ted BEFORE he was caught and identified as the Unabomber. Maybe I’m wrong, but that is how I read it, because they were talking about him complaining (to them) about the sawmill noise. That would have occurred BEFORE his arrest. I’ll read again and see if I’m looking at it wrong.



Farflung,
Once again you are “on target”! Your humorous posts are a refreshing change from the bickering normally found here. Both you and orange1 have a good handle on this thread’s “logic”.

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[airtwardo 7]

So using the DB Cooper forum logic stream; the FBI should have been targeting a gregarious, explosives veteran who was independently wealthy and wore a toupee.

Then some smart-ass would come on and say that since he smoked cigarettes...

He wasn't very smart cuz they're bad for ya, couldn't have worked around explosives cuz puff puff KaBoom,
was poor or he'd be smokin' Cubans...and NOBODY would wear a toupee that smelled like an old bar rag.


In my mind, even MORE proof it was Roy Orbison!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Farflung 0]

You have your theory airtwardo and I have verified, certified, cross checked, pre arranged in advance, known facts, from numerous people who have said the same thing from different times for many years….. know whatta mean?

[377 22]

Blevins wrote:

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A 1972 trial, as I said, just is too much of a stretch. If they had one, sure...KC's lawyers could tell him not to testify. Then the jury would wonder WHY he refused to answer.

The Fifth Amendment is a powerful right, but juries do, of course, wonder about why defendants decide to invoke it.

After the final arguments are made, the judge instructs the jury and they are told to make no adverse inferences from the defendant's refusal to testify. Most of the time I think they follow the instruction, but words from judges can't completely nullify natural human suspicion that silence=guilt.

I think KC was up to something fishy, too much money for a guy who had a low paying job, but I just don't see a direct link to Norjack. Could he have embezzled much money as a purser? I doubt it, but I did date a stewardess while I was in school. Her roommate, also a stew, had literally over a thousand of those tiny liquor bottles. Little thefts can add up to big ones.

As an aside, some airlines did deal in a lot of cash. A good friend, now deceased, flew for Trans Ocean Airlines. They bought a bunch of used Boeing Stratocruisers and tried to take on the big boys in trans Pacific routes. They foundered as jets came on the scene and one of the big airlines threatened to cancel their orders if Boeing sold any 707s to Trans Ocean. With credit shaky, the Trans Ocean crews had to carry big bags of cash to pay for avgas and catering at every refueling stop. There was a big opportunity for shaving a few hundred here and there if you were crooked and had cooperation from a vendor.

If I were an NWA crew member, as KC was, I'd never pick an NWA plane to hijack, it just ups the risk of recognition hugely with no offsetting reward. The grudge motive can be argued, but the hijack didnt really hurt NWA very much. They had insurance. Passengers didnt shun the airline after the hijack. KC could have done a lot more damage as a rogue mechanic.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Orange1 0]

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Come on now Sluggo Monster, what about American Airlines 444? Although it was a ‘trend’ of one.

With 20/20 hindsight, I think they should have called him the ‘UnaBerkleyChicagoEnviron’ Bomber since his targets all seems to cluster in those areas.

They should have been looking for a veteran with experience with ordinance since there were bombs and no one could possibly teach themselves how to make one of those things.

Obviously, since there was never a ransom demand, the Unabomber was very wealthy. They should have looked for a well off, veteran.

Plus, did you read his manifest? Man could that guy talk. So using the DB Cooper forum logic stream; the FBI should have been targeting a gregarious, explosives veteran who was independently wealthy and wore a toupee.

Actually, this is where the Unabomber case has an interesting relevance (maybe). The FBI started out with the right direction in the profile, refined it to a near perfect match.... and then changed their minds. We know more than one Cooper profile has been suggested...

Quote

In 1980, chief agent John Douglas, working with agents in the FBI's Behavioral Sciences Unit, issued a psychological profile of the unidentified bomber which described the offender as a man with above-average intelligence with connections to academia. This profile was later refined to characterize the offender as a neo-Luddite holding an academic degree in the hard sciences, but this psychologically based profile was discarded in 1983 in favor of an alternative theory developed by FBI analysts concentrating on the physical evidence in recovered bomb fragments. In this rival profile, the bomber suspect was characterized as a blue-collar airplane mechanic

Don't underestimate profiling. I saw a documentary on this serial killer recently - they called in a profiler, who gave an extremely accurate fit, and apparently it was the first case where a criminal profile was used to get a search warrant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Hansen

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Farflung 0]

I suppose the profiling has as much to do with effective communications and probabilities as anything.

I failed with a point about long lists confounding an argument with the death penalty. The ‘opponents’ keep claiming that it is more expensive to execute than to jail for life. The State of Texas accepted this inefficiency the ‘opponents’ so deftly identified and streamlined their execution process to be the most efficient and cost effective in the nation. I guess that was their intent, since they still doggedly publish this fact daring other States to lower the costs and increase their output. I completely misunderstood their point and still can’t bring myself to put a price on justice. I’m just too simple of a thinker like that.

The profilers could offer more than one analysis and abandon this brain dead assumption that one profile trumps or invalidates another. The Unabomber demonstrated an affinity for Berkley and Chicago, he could have been blazingly brilliant or a Luddite of sorts. Hey, anyone know of a prodigy from Berkley or Chicago that acted weird and possibly burned out? Nawww, list would be way too long.

I’m convinced, if a body is recovered from the Columbia, wearing Cossey’s rig there will be an instant explanation of how ‘Whoever’s Favorite Suspect’ had robbed a grave or killed a guy accidentally (funny story though) and put him in the harness and tossed both into the river.

[Orange1 0]

The bombing aspect aside, I know Kaczynski was not exactly "mainstream" but I also guess he wasn't the only person out there who wanted to become a recluse in a remote cabin. (particularly in that era?)
The wiki article also mentions he needed a way to fund his lifestyle till he became self-sustainable (apparently relying on family handouts for a while)
Again not saying he was Cooper, but ... say a similar guy. Smart, knows stuff, can plan something like this. Wants to fund the lifestyle and just needs one big sum to get him started. Loses some dollars in the jump, goes in. No-one misses him because he was a recluse anyway ....
(doesn't explain why an airplane hijacking of course... but might explain why cooper was not missed and most of the money not found and there maybe is a body somewhere at the bottom of the columbia)

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[377 22]

Farflung wrote:

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. Hey, anyone know of a prodigy from Berkley or Chicago that acted weird and possibly burned out? Nawww, list would be way too long.

I was studying engineering at UC Berkeley when Kaczynski was an asst. math prof there. I didnt know him but he had a reputation as "weird" among my friends who were math majors. Now consider how far off normal you have to be to be considered weird at Berkeley in the late 60s. In the early 80s he sent a bomb to a favorite EE professor, "Dodge" Angelakos causing serious but not fatal injury. We were all speculating about who the Unabomber was, figuring he had to have a UC Berkeley connection, but nobody thought of Kaczynski. We didn't think math majors knew how to build stuff. We were betting on a physics guy.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[smokin99 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Come on now Sluggo Monster, what about American Airlines 444? Although it was a ‘trend’ of one.

With 20/20 hindsight, I think they should have called him the ‘UnaBerkleyChicagoEnviron’ Bomber since his targets all seems to cluster in those areas.

They should have been looking for a veteran with experience with ordinance since there were bombs and no one could possibly teach themselves how to make one of those things.

Obviously, since there was never a ransom demand, the Unabomber was very wealthy. They should have looked for a well off, veteran.

Plus, did you read his manifest? Man could that guy talk. So using the DB Cooper forum logic stream; the FBI should have been targeting a gregarious, explosives veteran who was independently wealthy and wore a toupee.

Actually, this is where the Unabomber case has an interesting relevance (maybe). The FBI started out with the right direction in the profile, refined it to a near perfect match.... and then changed their minds. We know more than one Cooper profile has been suggested...

***In 1980, chief agent John Douglas, working with agents in the FBI's Behavioral Sciences Unit, issued a psychological profile of the unidentified bomber which described the offender as a man with above-average intelligence with connections to academia. This profile was later refined to characterize the offender as a neo-Luddite holding an academic degree in the hard sciences, but this psychologically based profile was discarded in 1983 in favor of an alternative theory developed by FBI analysts concentrating on the physical evidence in recovered bomb fragments. In this rival profile, the bomber suspect was characterized as a blue-collar airplane mechanic

Don't underestimate profiling. I saw a documentary on this serial killer recently - they called in a profiler, who gave an extremely accurate fit, and apparently it was the first case where a criminal profile was used to get a search warrant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Hansen

I thought this passage (from Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kaczynski) was very interesting....

Paragraphs 204 and 205 of the FBI search and arrest warrant for Kaczynski stated that "experts"—many of them academics consulted by the FBI—believed the manifesto had been written by "another individual, not Theodore Kaczynski".[28]
As stated in the affidavit, only a handful of people believed Theodore Kaczynski was the Unabomber before the search warrant revealed the cornucopia of evidence in Kaczynski's isolated cabin. The search warrant affidavit written by FBI Inspector Terry D. Turchie reflects this conflict, and is striking evidence of the opposition to Turchie and his small cadre of FBI agents that included Moss and Puckett—who were convinced Theodore Kaczynski was the Unabomber—from the rest of the UNABOM Task Force and the FBI in general:

204. Your affiant is aware that other individuals have conducted analyses of the UNABOM Manuscript __ determined that the Manuscript was written by another individual, not Kaczynski, who had also been a suspect in the investigation.

205. Numerous other opinions from experts have been provided as to the identity of the unabomb subject. None of those opinions named Theodore Kaczynski as a possible author.[28]

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[377 22]

Has "profiling" ever been subject to rigorous testing and validation? Sounds pretty subjective. Easy to do post mortems and point to all the hits and ignore the misses. Remember when mediums and psychics were consulted to help solve kidnappings and disappearances?

Am I the only sceptic here? I shudder to think of search warrants being issued on the basis of profiling. Shop around enough and I'm sure you could find a profiler who would say the house you wanted to search is exactly the one likely to be contain what you are looking for. If you are going to invade a home you should have some objective evidence that justifies the warrant.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Farflung,

That little blurb in the bottom right of your photo shoud be Au H20 64.

I hadn't seen that little ditty since... well... uh... 1964.

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[smokin99 0]

I saw a comment on another site re DB that "he could have been on an earlier flight on the same flight path and timed the seconds and speed and determined where someone would land if they jumped at the right time. Then a vehicle might be waiting."

This was a regular route, correct? Understanding that winds, weather, choice of parachute, fact that he had possibly had trouble with the door, etc. are all ultimately factors....... would it be possible to determine, within say a couple of miles, where you would likely land if you jumped at a certain time using only the timing from a previous flight and correlating that with your current speed?

Pros and cons?

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[quade 4]

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Here's a Big Truth about the Cooper case: SOMEONE OUT THERE KNOWS SOMETHING.

Not in evidence and after 40 years, it's entirely possible that even if DB Cooper did have an accomplice or somebody somewhere has some vital fact, that person is long since dead.

This is why we'll also never "solve" the Jack the Ripper cases or who killed King Tut by looking for accomplices or witnesses. ;^)

The fact is it's entirely possible DB Cooper did do everything all by himself. Several other people have done copy-cat crimes solo.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver