DB Cooper

[Farflung 0]

Dit Dit Dit DAH Dit

If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there....

Did Roswell Aliens chop it down?

[377 22]

Yes. The alien loggers have been recorded on several Skunk cams. It's on YouTube.

Barry Goldwater was an active ham radio operator. So are a lot of people who post here. This proves that exposure to intense radio fields causes chronic mental dysfunction, far exceeding the minor abberations attendant to cell phone usage.

What's the frequency Kenneth?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

I saw a comment on another site re DB that "he could have been on an earlier flight on the same flight path and timed the seconds and speed and determined where someone would land if they jumped at the right time. Then a vehicle might be waiting."

This was a regular route, correct? Understanding that winds, weather, choice of parachute, fact that he had possibly had trouble with the door, etc. are all ultimately factors....... would it be possible to determine, within say a couple of miles, where you would likely land if you jumped at a certain time using only the timing from a previous flight and correlating that with your current speed?

Pros and cons?

99,

what someone without a LOT of experience might have done. For the life of me I have always thought people try to COMPLICATE this whole thing just too much.

and if you feel that your life has no value (which Weber did at that time).

What the Hell - If I don't make it so what! If I live and they catch me - I go to prison. What's my life worth anyway? I have spent most of my life in Prison - why not - at least I won't be sleeping on the street and I will get medical treatment.

He had been given a terrible blow that yr finding out he really did have polysystic kidney disease and knew his mother died within 2 yrs of going on the machine.

The had the KNOWLEDGE, FAMILIAR WITH THE AREA, MOTIVE, CAUSE and his attitude fit the PROFILE. Why has the world made this so Fxxxxx complicated? He survived - WOW, was he surprised
It is all very very simple. It didn't take a genius or an expert to do this - he survived and it was dumb luck.
This is basically what I told the FBI in the very beginning although I did not know about all of the prisons and when I found out how many prisons - this was my solution....BUT, the FBI said I had to put him in a chute and on the plane. So I spent yrs searching looking for the answers they wanted.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[quade 4]

Quote

I saw a comment on another site re DB that "he could have been on an earlier flight on the same flight path and timed the seconds and speed and determined where someone would land if they jumped at the right time. Then a vehicle might be waiting."

This was a regular route, correct? Understanding that winds, weather, choice of parachute, fact that he had possibly had trouble with the door, etc. are all ultimately factors....... would it be possible to determine, within say a couple of miles, where you would likely land if you jumped at a certain time using only the timing from a previous flight and correlating that with your current speed?

No.

The original statement assumes a "normal" flight is taking the same route, with the same wind and ATC vectors as the highjacked aircraft. That it's also flying at the same airspeed.

A normal flight gets shoved around a bit (vectored) by air traffic control to keep it out of the path of other airplanes. That means that just in the departure from the airport an extra minute or two might be added to the flight and a passenger would have no way of knowing. Contrast that with the highjacked flight where although ATC would have given it carte blanche in terms of route, there's know way DB Cooper could possibly know if the route wasn't being slightly fudged or being flown as directly as possible.

Wind plays a significant part in how far an airplane travels over the ground at a certain airspeed. For instance, add in a 30 knot head wind and over the course of two minutes of flight time you've lost a mile compared to no wind and two miles compared to a 30 knot tail wind.

Airplanes on "normal" flights aren't restricted in how fast they're supposed to fly by a highjacker that has demanded the aircraft fly at a certain altitude and airspeed.

No. Simply flying on a "normal" flight along that same route would have been a pretty horrible way to estimate where the highjacked flight was. Especially when you consider DB Cooper had no real way of knowing precisely what course the airplane was on or what the wind speeds aloft were.

Might a person with no flight or jumping experience try to do that to "plan" the highjack? Maybe. But he'd almost certainly be woefully wrong in his estimation. Almost certainly well outside any vague area associated with his intended landing zone. Certainly not accurate enough to land near a waiting vehicle to pick him up. That's simply a ludicrous concept using this "theory."

No experienced person would ever plan their jump that way with any expectation of landing on target.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Guru312 0]

Quote

Dit Dit Dit DAH Dit

So...you know that Au H2O was a ham operator.

But the joke is on me: the DropZone.com forum code won't allow certain word constructs within a sentence.

Di Di Di Dit/Di Dit//Di Di Di Dit/Di Dit

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

[Farflung 0]

Just look at what has happened from 1964 to 2008.

The Goldwater campaign was established on the platform which was constructed around their campaign slogan:

“Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice; moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.”

Forty four years later, a much better educated and far more sophisticated group gathered all of their creative talents and crafted:



“Change”



A new dawn indeed.

The election year 2052 will no doubt culminate in the complete abandonment of the written word and witness the continued atrophy of what resides between our ears and below some toupees. All the better since no one appeared to be using the things in the first place.

[quade 4]

If you would like to discuss politics that have nothing to do with DB Cooper, please do so in the Speakers Corner forum.

Please return to the topic at hand.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Quote

I saw a comment on another site re DB that "he could have been on an earlier flight on the same flight path and timed the seconds and speed and determined where someone would land if they jumped at the right time. Then a vehicle might be waiting."

This was a regular route, correct? Understanding that winds, weather, choice of parachute, fact that he had possibly had trouble with the door, etc. are all ultimately factors....... would it be possible to determine, within say a couple of miles, where you would likely land if you jumped at a certain time using only the timing from a previous flight and correlating that with your current speed?

No.

The original statement assumes a "normal" flight is taking the same route, with the same wind and ATC vectors as the highjacked aircraft. That it's also flying at the same airspeed.

A normal flight gets shoved around a bit (vectored) by air traffic control to keep it out of the path of other airplanes. That means that just in the departure from the airport an extra minute or two might be added to the flight and a passenger would have no way of knowing. Contrast that with the highjacked flight where although ATC would have given it carte blanche in terms of route, there's know way DB Cooper could possibly know if the route wasn't being slightly fudged or being flown as directly as possible.

Wind plays a significant part in how far an airplane travels over the ground at a certain airspeed. For instance, add in a 30 knot head wind and over the course of two minutes of flight time you've lost a mile compared to no wind and two miles compared to a 30 knot tail wind.

Airplanes on "normal" flights aren't restricted in how fast they're supposed to fly by a highjacker that has demanded the aircraft fly at a certain altitude and airspeed.

No. Simply flying on a "normal" flight along that same route would have been a pretty horrible way to estimate where the highjacked flight was. Especially when you consider DB Cooper had no real way of knowing precisely what course the airplane was on or what the wind speeds aloft were.

Might a person with no flight or jumping experience try to do that to "plan" the highjack? Maybe. But he'd almost certainly be woefully wrong in his estimation. Almost certainly well outside any vague area associated with his intended landing zone. Certainly not accurate enough to land near a waiting vehicle to pick him up. That's simply a ludicrous concept using this "theory."

No experienced person would ever plan their jump that way with any expectation of landing on target.

All that, plus the altitude difference vs a normal flight.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[SKYWHUFFO 1]

I have a question. I can not get a straight answer so a very simple one or two sentence answer would be great. Was there other air traffic in the pattern besides the NWA flight? If no then how long before and after was it cleared?
I ask this with all these claims of sightings of "the Plane". If there was other planes how do yu tell what plane you saw. I know I can't look up at the sky and see a plane and say there goes NWA flight 123 bound for Moosejaw Sakatchawan.
If sombody can answer that would be great.

[377 22]

You know it was funny that the con men who swindled Newsweek KNEW that Cooper couldnt just figure out his position by elapsed time so they came up with that preposterous planted ground transmitter triangle story. They KNEW there would be questions about Cooper's navigation and they came up with a tale they thought was credible.

I agree with Quade, elapsed time position fixing on a prior flight would be useless on the hijacked flight.

Remember FO Ratazack wanted to deviate from the planned course and trick Cooper into jumping into the frigid Pacifc Ocean. No guarantee that the pilots would be following any particular path. It was an adversarial life and death situation. You couldn't take anything for granted.

Still, several copycats managed to land alive without precise location info for their exit. McCoy did pretty well in fact. When I was a student, I stupidly obeyed a jumpmaster's command to jump into a solid cloud cover. I turned out OK, I landed on a farm miles from the DZ. You can get lucky on a blind exit, but the risks are high.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Farflung 0]

WOW Quade, is that what you gleaned from those comments? Politics? You actually think Roswell Aliens will run in 2052 sponsored by an ‘Atomic Bouffant’ and I was making a political statement?

Really?

I haven’t seen the mark missed this bad since that Thai Ladyboy sued me for paternity. But this isn’t about my obvious talents with the ladies, it is about DB Cooper.

It was an example of the historical dumbing down the average American represents and how bad our reading comprehension has become. It was an attempt at trend analysis and I failed. Ore halve eye?

A thousand pardons for my grotesque transgression. Please remember I’m a humorless man with a small, oh so small bank account and equally sized winky.

I am not now, nor have I ever been a member of the Alien party. Nor was I endorsing or campaigning for any member of that party, now or 42 years in the future. Up to and including the green chick which I began to find oddly attractive.

Hey, I think you caught this just in time, thanks – I needed that.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

I re-scanned the transcripts and best I can tell all traffic in SW WA was normal and unrestricted from the time of the hijacking forward.

Exceptions:
Landing at SEA delayed to clear ground traffic on RWY/TXYWAY
Frequency cleared for exclusive use of comms with 305
South 3500 ft of 16L closed while 305 on ground on 16R.
I have no evidence, but I think they would have held departures while 305 was still in the pattern at departure.

I know it's more that two sentences, but I'm such a blabber-mouth.

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[quade 4]

Quote

WOW Quade, is that what you gleaned from those comments? Politics?

When you started to compare a President from the 50s to the current one and specifically about "Change"; yes.

Keep that stuff off this thread.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

I re-scanned the transcripts and best I can tell all traffic in SW WA was normal and unrestricted from the time of the hijacking forward.

Exceptions:
Landing at SEA delayed to clear ground traffic on RWY/TXYWAY
Frequency cleared for exclusive use of comms with 305
South 3500 ft of 16L closed while 305 on ground on 16R.
I have no evidence, but I think they would have held departures while 305 was still in the pattern at departure.

I know it's more that two sentences, but I'm such a blabber-mouth.

Well, I was told other flights were held that might intercept with the flight path after the Highjacked plane had left - and until the pilot told those waiting for news stated - He thought their passgenger had left them.


He (a person who definitely knows) said the air space was CLEARED. They had search planes doing figure eights back and forth above the 727. Some smaller craft went into air hoping to locate the 727...Himmelsbach was on one of those crafts.

Another plane left several minutes after the 727 from Seattle to Portland - with a slightly different route. It was my understanding this plane was NOT released until the 727 was out of it airspace. - SO how many minutes before the 727 cleared the WA area?

Time and space -

I agree that Cooper missed his target because of factors he did not consider. Had the weather have been better and had he considered the delay the angle of the Flaps made...he would probably have hit his target.

His target was Near the old 500, but he landed North of there and made the best of the situation he could. He improvised, but feared his target might already have been discovered. He took the only alternative route he had - follow the power lines and the pipelines. He knew where to go. I have asked the FBI about a car that was left just north of the old 500 near a field, but never got any answers.

This car probably had WA tags as the owner lived in WA. It was a borrowed car - and the owner was known to Cooper. Duane knew 2 individuals who were living in the area during that time...but, the vehicle could have been taken without their permission. If one of these individuals was out of the "states' the vehichle may have been in storage...but, Duane would have known how to get access to the vehicle.

How quickly did the FBI investigate every car left along the road or in a field? It was awhile because they weren't looking that far South.

Just a guess from somethings I know none of you know and that I have never been able to state in this forum or anywhere else except to the FBI, but I didn't realize my words where falling on deaf ears as far as the FBI was concerned. It is also possible the vehicle was picked-up and returned to its regular place and never missed by the owner since he was out of town.

Sluggo - if you which to discuss this - you know my phone number.

I have another issue to discuss with you about a prior post you NEED to be aware of.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Farflung 0]

All this loose, unsourced and unattributed guano about flight profiles and aircraft ops is giving me some heartburn. Especially considering the Shoe Clerk opinion it represents. So rather than adding to the endless stream of professorial down speak, I felt a simple show and tell was long, long. looooooooooong over due.

I would love to blather on and on about my qualifications (code for penis) but feel an individual validation of what I write and represent is far more honest, valuable and damages only my sense of self importance and unchecked ego.

The attached graphic is from Sluggo Monster’s web page which has the instrument charts for the Seattle airport. It is a close up of the SeaTac (Seattle – Tacoma) airport and the many, many, many, many, many routes one could chose when flying in a Southerly direction…… OK, there is only two, ummm….just two choices. They are the lines which are colored YELLOW and PINK. Do you see them?

They both begin at Runway 16C which I have crudely but like a person with a massive knob, drew with the correct orientation, relative scale and number with thick, black lines. Are they too big for you?

SeaTac has three (3) long runways and they are numbered based upon magnetic headings rounded to the nearest ten (164 degrees is Runway 16) and in the case of parallel runways will include an alpha designator for left, right and center (Runway 16C is the center strip).

The RED circles are highlighting the Radials the two routes represent. If you are taking off from Runway 16C, you would climb out on runway heading then turn from three to thirteen degrees and join the airway which is virtually oriented in the direction of departure. Following along so far? I knew you would.

The three images on the right margin of the chart are structures which many women have asked about and ALL men have lied with a Cliff Claven-esque answer. Anyone want to claim this is not true? I thought so.

Anyway, those three images are of VORTACs which transmit the electronic highway the aircraft equipped with an RMI and DME (instruments) can follow. VORTAC stands for - Very High Frequency Omnidirectional Radio Range and Tactical Air….. ahhh crap, there is not a single person on this planet that knows or cares what this stands for; so just do like everyone in history and make up whatever name makes you happiest. I would contract the two contractions of SeaTac and VORTAC and create a SEAVORTAC thus trumping Esperanto as an exclusive language while creating a wicked Scrabble score in one smooth move. Damn I’m awesome.

Not so quick, there is more to review. The GREEN line starts where the VORTAC is located and terminates in a GREEN, quadrangle with chamfered edges which contain the DNA for SeaTac’s VORTAC. Or excuse me, SEAVORTACDNA.

Seattle is the name of the station and has an associated tri-graph of SEA. Now there is some James Bond-y stuff in that the audio identifier is transmitted in…… wait for it….. that’s right…. Morse code. How quaint, arcane and Mondo-testicular can one thing be at the same time? Listen closely; you can hear it through static and above the ambient noise…. Dit Dit Dit….. Dit….. Dit Dahhhh……… Well, that’s how you know you dialed in the right station AND know it is transmitting righteous signals.

Next to the secret, decoded, Morse tri-graph is 116.8. This is the VHF (remember how VORTAC got the name?) frequency you dial into the Navigation receiver to receive the directional signal and hear the Morse identifier. Not too tough, unless you are trying to make things sound all ‘only I can do this-y’ and ‘you can’t understand-y’ because you are suffering from a crippling case of overcompensation.

Which leaves the last data point in the form of Chan(nel) 115. I know you probably think this is so you can watch the Telemundo girls in the cockpit (laughs), but no, that is not what channel it is at all (recovers from laughs). This is a preset frequency from the UHF band and can be calculated to figure the value in MHz if you are willing to remain a friendless individual, who will never know the touch of a beautiful woman. Obviously there is someone on this thread with the answer, it simply is not me.

This channel will facilitate the operation of DME (Distance Measuring Equipment) which is equipment that measures distance…….. ummm… in Nautical Miles of slant range called ‘miles DME’. Sort of like an electronic odometer but you never get the rush of seeing it roll over to 000,000 miles.

So that is a long introduction to the cornucopia of information contained in the ‘L’ series of FAA approved instrument charts. If you found this to be too long and boring, you are a loser for making such a determination at this point and should (but won’t) find a hole to slither into and die. If you understood this stuff you are of above average intelligence and possess a rare ability to comprehend the written American language. If you have any questions, ask. If I don’t know the answer, I will lie.

[Amazon 7]

Quote

I would love to blather on and on about my qualifications (code for penis) but feel an individual validation of what I write and represent is far more honest, valuable and damages only my sense of self importance and unchecked ego.

On this website the long rant is invalid without pictures, Please post in BonFire which is the proper venue for said pictures.

[377 22]

Farflung wrote:

Quote

If you have any questions, ask. If I don’t know the answer, I will lie.

Farflung is too modest about his "qualifications". If bigger is better he wins, having flown planes with nearly three times the number of jet engines as a 727 has.

When I was a kid I longed to be a commercial pilot. I had it all planned out. I was also fascinated by radio and at age 11 converted an old AM FM vacuum tube radio to receive the aero VHF band by unwinding some turns off an oscillator coil and making a few other minor changes. The hacked up radio performance was suboptimal, but I could hear all the local airliners and a few VORTAC stations. As I recall, in addition to Morse IDs they VORTACS had a voice ID too. I remember "WOODSIDE VORTAC" being announced endlessly on a recorded loop.

I loved listening to the airliners. It was 99.9% routine, but once I heard an emergency declared by an inbound Pan Am plane that had an engine fire warning. I rushed outside and waited. We lived right under an approach to SFO. Soon a big Pan Am Stratocruiser passed overhead with one prop feathered and trailing smoke from the shut down engine. Im my 11 year old mind I was in the left seat of the Strat, masterfully saving the day, soon to be congratulated by grateful stewardesses and passengers.

Fortunately, before I made any real commitments to an aviation career, I met a real pilot. He had flown P 47s win WW2 and went to work for the airlines after the war. He said airline flying was really boring and that the life wasn't good for raising a family. Tales of jet lag, hassles with senority and route choices, endless paperwork and long stretches of autpilot boredom dampened my enthsusiasm. I chose electrical engineering and it worked out fine. I got my "sky fix" cheap by skydiving starting at age 18 and still jumping today at 61.

I remain optimistic that Cooper will be ID'd. All it takes is a lucky break, like in the UNABOMBER case.
We aren't likely to solve it at our keyboards, but we have unearthed some very interesting stuff, like the Air America 727 jumps, USFS smoke jumper SE Asia CIA links, Tena Bar area dredging history and analysis etc.

If Cooper escaped, I still wonder how he did it without an accomplice. By morning the news was widespread and anybody who looked out of place walking in the rural areas under the flight path would be a suspect.

The Tena Bar money suggests that something went wrong. People dont throw cash away. What would Occam conclude about the money find?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[quade 4]

Quote

This channel will facilitate the operation of DME (Distance Measuring Equipment) which is equipment that measures distance…….. ummm… in Nautical Miles of slant range called ‘miles DME’. Sort of like an electronic odometer but you never get the rush of seeing it roll over to 000,000 miles.

So that is a long introduction to the cornucopia of information contained in the ‘L’ series of FAA approved instrument charts. If you found this to be too long and boring, you are a loser for making such a determination at this point and should (but won’t) find a hole to slither into and die. If you understood this stuff you are of above average intelligence and possess a rare ability to comprehend the written American language. If you have any questions, ask. If I don’t know the answer, I will lie.

However, it should be noted, DB Cooper would have had NO access to a DME. There's no indication he carried one and even if he did he would have needed access to external antennas for it to operate. At the time, a DME was a fairly large, expensive and sophisticated piece of equipment.

There is no indication whatsoever that he had access to any DME that was in the cockpit of the aircraft. There is no indication that the crew relayed DME information to him in the aft of the cabin.

Further, because he did not specify a routing, there's no way he could have been certain any particular landing area he'd want to use that information would be useful.

This is a dead end.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[377 22]

Quade wrote:

Quote

However, it should be noted, DB Cooper would have had NO access to a DME. There's no indication he carried one and even if he did he would have needed access to external antennas for it to operate nor the 24 volt power required to operate it. At the time, a DME was a fairly large and sophisticated piece of equipment.

Good points about DME being impractical Quade, but there are all sorts of tricks one can use with a cheap 1971 vintage handheld VHF receiver to get estimates of distance and direction to known stations. Hams use body fade techniques (interposing your body as a shield for attenuating when between the receiver antenna and the direction to the transmitting station). You can get crude direction info from body fade without a directional antenna. Range can be estimated by reducing telescoping antenna length and seeing at what point the received signal fades out.

I want Cooper to have used radios because it adds a tech twist to the mystery, but there is zero evidence that he did.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Farflung 0]

Don’t even get me started on the lack of chart reading skills on this thread. Too late.

OK, so now the field of airway possibilities has been narrowed from thousands to two in regard to traveling south from SeaTac, some further analysis may be needed. Cooper let it be known that he wanted to fly at 10,000 feet and go to Mexico City or at least something around 170ish on the whiskey compass.

Somehow, the idea was hatched that this aircraft had some sort of carte blanche in regard to flying over Washington. More ‘Shoe Clerk’ goo which has been left on the bathroom doorknob in the house of Cooper. Where do these ‘people’ come up with these absurd ideas? Hollywood or some dark recess perhaps? Well it is long time to put this ridiculous notion back where it came from and this may involve some squealing, boy, lots and lots of squealing.

Won’t you give a warm DB Cooper thread welcome, for an encore performance of Sluggo Monster’s, L-1 instrument chart with the two Southbound and down, airways? Cause we’re goin’ to do what they say can’t be done. We’ve got a long way to fly and a short time to get there. We’re Southbound, just watch ‘ol Cooper jump.

So gaze upon the two choices of routes. They both start off in the GREEN ovals with altitudes of 3,000 feet. I like it when the airways are nice to each other it makes me happy and joyous. But then something goes horribly wrong at WIRT intersection on the pink (but no threat to my obvious masculinity) airway. All of a sudden the minimum altitude is 9,000 (RED oval) feet while the YELLOW route requires only 5,000 (GOLD oval) feet many miles further south.

Now, I’m so sad because the airways are not the same anymore and I need to, a little bit, cry, bwahh, bwahhh, bhahhahahah.

With mean old DB Cooper wanting 10,000 feet, that leaves very little margin for the sweet little Nancy, pink route that I was so completely stuck upon. Gosh, now it appears there is only one logical selection and that is Victor 23, if one is interested in NOT crashing and burning on a mountainside. And according to the ‘Crew Transcripts’ on PDF page 64, finding a route that allowed 10,000 was priority.

So why was the crew so uptight about having charts, making sure there is clearance from terrain, blah, blah, blah. Are you looking at the chart? What do you see? Some blue lines and confounding clusters of numbers and arrows and bizarre names I suppose. Where are the mountain tops? Can you see any? Oh yeah, that’s because the airways represent a surveyed section of airspace which exists 4 nautical miles either side of centerline and NO MORE. None, nada, zip, nothing but death and writhing pain in the form of a violent fireball. Get it Shoe Clerks? I didn’t think so.

Turn your attention to the textual box that says “4000 foot delta in 7 miles”. See that little ‘ol blue line between the YELLOW and PINK routes? In that distance one is required to climb 4,000 feet. So if you’re making a groundspeed of 180 knots you would have just over 2 minutes to make this climb by achieving a 2,000 foot per minute climb rate. You think anyone with an operative brain stem would consider deviating from a standard airway just for the heck of it? I mean really, where did this 10, 15, 20 plus miles off centerline deviation come from? Just another glaring example of how shallow, vapid and embarrassing the flight ops knowledge is and with few exceptions, most should classify themselves as a sort of ‘Toonces the Flying Cat’ and that is being way generous.

So it appears that the choice of airways was actually one, kinda like voting for Hitler. If people get the government they deserve, then forums get the information they deserve. What does this say about this thread? Pretty deep monkey thought there.

Don’t worry, there is plenty more to expose in the ‘Shoe Clerk’s chronicles’. Next we will study the technique of air deliveries with nothing more than some rough airspeed and a Timex. You’ll like.

[Farflung 0]

WOW, don’t have ANY idea where this, ”Cooper had a DME system” came from.

I can testify with an accuracy of 100% that I made no such mention in my comment and this is the product of some bias or lack of reading comprehension. The title of the comment was ‘Some Simple Stuff’ and was nothing more than an introduction to some of the symbology on the FAA, ‘L’ charts and how to interpret the same.

How did this logic train take a dirt road so quickly? Oh well, nothing new here.

[Orange1 0]

I would just like to point out the obvious: the fact that we still debate the flight path now, means it must be blindingly obvious that Cooper could not have relied in advance on one.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[377 22]

Quote

WOW, don’t have ANY idea where this, ”Cooper had a DME system” came from.

I can testify with an accuracy of 100% that I made no such mention in my comment and this is the product of some bias or lack of reading comprehension. The title of the comment was ‘Some Simple Stuff’ and was nothing more than an introduction to some of the symbology on the FAA, ‘L’ charts and how to interpret the same.

How did this logic train take a dirt road so quickly? Oh well, nothing new here.

Relax Farflung. You didnt say Cooper had DME. You didnt say he had INS (inertial nav system) either and I can write about how heavy that stuff was in the days before ring laser gyros.

Good points on the sectionals and the ever present threat of rising terrain. Sluggo educated me all about V 23 and the charts long long ago. I think I get it. Many non pilot jumpers like myself have never looked at an aviation chart. That is paperwork, stuff the cockpit apes do while they carry the masters of the universe to new heights.

Farlung, you are an experienced pilot. What do you think Cooper's altitude and configuration demands indicated about his possible aviation conection? Pilot? Aircrew? Whuffo?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Farflung 0]

Orange1,

Completely true. 100% true. True as true can be on a day when… umm… true blue… bluebirds sing their magic blue…. got lost in my own allegory there.

This MAY be the point that Cooper did not preselect an airway BUT (HUGE BUT HERE); the flight crew was NOT (NOT) predisposed to fly in some pseudo random pattern over the skies of Washington and Oregon because they were ‘special’ and could.

This jump in logic is what induces a cerebral aneurism in anyone with some flight experience. And for whatever reason is such an irresistible consideration to the squadron of Walter Mitty’s operating the Cooper machinery.

I am NOT (NOT) saying that Cooper did anything, just trying (and failing again) to define some aviation materials and why they are, the way they are.

That is all.

[quade 4]

Quote

WOW, don’t have ANY idea where this, ”Cooper had a DME system” came from.

Because you've talked about a DME in the DB Cooper thread and we know from experience that this can lead people astray.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver