DB Cooper

[377 22]

Quote

good god some of you don't even grasp the value of facebook, a online community that 1 out of every 10 people on the entire planet uses daily.

Jamie,

We DBC forum addicts "get" FACEBOOK, but we dont want to eat at McDonalds. This forum is a little run down diner on the back streets of Coallinga or Mojave. The front window was broken ten years ago and it's still covered with plywood. No Yelp reviews, no Zagat ratings, hell, not even a printed menu, but we like it here.

Stick around. Pretty soon you will be considered a regular and entitled to take shots (gentle or harsh, depending on your character) at the next person who comes up with a new DBC.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

good god some of you don't even grasp the value of facebook, a online community that 1 out of every 10 people on the entire planet uses daily.

Jamie,

We DBC forum addicts "get" FACEBOOK, but we dont want to eat at McDonalds. This forum is a little run down diner on the back streets of Coallinga or Mojave. The front window was broken ten years ago and it's still covered with plywood. No Yelp reviews, no Zagat ratings, hell, not even a printed menu, but we like it here.

Stick around. Pretty soon you will be considered a regular and entitled to take shots (gentle or harsh, depending on your character) at the next person who comes up with a new DBC.

377

Christ.... so we need another wuffo...

I just want to throw everyone from a plane...



OK OK



I will at least let em have a parachute.

[JamieCooper 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

good god some of you don't even grasp the value of facebook, a online community that 1 out of every 10 people on the entire planet uses daily.

Jamie,

We DBC forum addicts "get" FACEBOOK, but we dont want to eat at McDonalds. This forum is a little run down diner on the back streets of Coallinga or Mojave. The front window was broken ten years ago and it's still covered with plywood. No Yelp reviews, no Zagat ratings, hell, not even a printed menu, but we like it here.

Stick around. Pretty soon you will be considered a regular and entitled to take shots (gentle or harsh, depending on your character) at the next person who comes up with a new DBC.

377

Christ.... so we need another wuffo...

I just want to throw everyone from a plane...



OK OK



I will at least let em have a parachute.

lol
I'd love to jump out of a plane!

[EVickiW 0]

Quote

lol
I'd love to jump out of a plane!

http://www.groupon.com/deals/skydive-twin-cities-minneapolis-st-paul?utm_medium=email&utm_source=grouponicus&date=20101220&user=evickiw@gmail.com&d=skin-klinic-of-edina-1&s=middle&c=deal_button

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[skyjack71 0]

Copy of Post from Robert with Questions in Blue from me.
I am asking Dumb Blonde questions and comments so please make the answers easy for me and others like myself to understand.
---------------------------

The high winds at altitude saga apparently originates from the quotations from a Captain Bohan which start on page 111 of Ralph Himmelsbach's book.

Captain Bohan apparently told Himmelsbach that his jet was at 14,000 feet and "four minutes behind" the hijacked airliner. Bohan reported "80 knot winds from 166 degrees (this would presumably be about 183 degrees with respect to the grid lines), right on my nose". Bohan also reported an extremely high cross wind component as he landed on runway 10 at Portland.

First, Captain Bohan wouldn't not have been "four minutes behind" the hijacked airliner very long since he probably had an airspeed of about 100 knots more than the Cooper aircraft, assuming of course that Bohan had retracted his landing gear and flaps and was operating his aircraft normally.

So Bohan HAD to be on another track (in Dumb Blonde language) that means not on the same co-ordinates - but West of the Skyjack plane?

The ground winds passed to the hijacked airliner, including those at Seattle, Reno, and points in between, were all of the order of about 10 MPH (or about 9 knots). Consequently, there is no support elsewhere for Bohan's high cross wind component which would have to be about 25 MPH to be a concern for a jet airliner.

Again was Bohan West of the skyjacked plane? I would like to see a plain map with cities and road showing the exact route of each plane with the times. Red for Skyjacked and Green for Bohan. Most individuals like myself cannot read the co-ordinates and remove the navigations clutter. Can you simplify the routes of both planes including the curve Bohna would have to make to land at PDX?

There is no supporting evidence of winds of 80 knots at 14,000 feet and plenty of supporting evidence that the winds at 10,000 feet were less than 30 knots from a southwesterly direction.

This is usually what confuses us Whuffos and Dumb Blondes - Southwesterly - does that mean blowing from from a SouthWest directions (can you indicate the winds with arrows on the same map)?

Overall, the winds and weather that the hijacked airliner experienced were all relativey routine and, weatherwise, it was just another night at the office.

This is what I have always thought, but us plain ordinary individuals get caught up in all of the clutter and need a Simple Map to show the things to support this in a manner that cannot be disputed. There are those out there who think they know what Bohan was saying, but they are NOT pilots or navigators.

The picture I have in my mind is the two routes - one for each plane and comparing the time scale. Then considering the wind direction and the bump - approximately where Cooper could have landed. I believe that Cooper jumped after he saw the Dam lights/Power lights or what-ever East of Lake Merwin, but the winds caught him and took him East and West. This put him North East of his target which was further South.

This will clarify which plane was saw by the witnesses - making witness accounts more believable or disqualfied.


Regarding the Skyjacker:
I have always believed his target was between Heisson and Brush Praire and Hockinson - just because of all of the things Weber told me and showed me on that trip....and I believe the skyjacked plane went right over those areas. He knew the area well enough to make do with what was at hand and perhaps this was also a lot of luck.

Makin-do. What someone I knew always said and did. Being an ex-con - that is all he could do...what chance did an ex-con have in those days of getting a good job and becoming successful? NOT MUCH! I will say up-front that I believe the motive for the crime was 3 fold.

1. Feeling he was OWED SOMETHING.

2. With a bad diagnosis - NOTHING TO LOOSE

3. A grudge - One that occurred in 1968/69. The motive I cannot discuss with anyone except in extreme confidence as it involved individuals whose lives were forever changed.


Was Weber Cooper? I only know what he told me. "Maybe I was the one on the ground."

Why would Weber have the ticket, the stub, the bag and why did he confess? Did Cooper survive or die shortly thereafter or was Weber actually Cooper? Who is buried in the Washougal Memorial Cemetery? Since NO ONE claims him - could he be Cooper or an accomplice? Who paid for the headstone?

I can't answer the questions in the last paragraph and hope before I meet the Creator that I will know the truth...and everyone else with understand what is often considered a Tease or Riddles. They are neither - just things I don't understand and somethings I cannot talk about. Enough harm has come to others because of the dead past I have dug-up.


Special Message to individuals who have chosen to not speak for themselves and who have spent their lives trying to erase the past:

Innocent victims of the Cooper saga can try to forget the things that happened or they can face the demons head on. The victims can choose to stay silent, but now is the time to speak. After I am gone they will have no voice...as I am the only one who knows their secret.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

The no-royalties contract he signed with AB gives Adventure Books of Seattle the exclusive rights to negotiate any film possibilities regarding the Christiansen story, so the point is moot. If a film deal is made in 2011, it would be up to Gayla Prociv (CEO) to include Lyle in the negotiations, but she doesn't have to do this. She has told me that she might do it anyway, but she's not required to do it.

Besides, Lyle's family isn't super-rich, but let's just say they're not worrying where their next meal is coming from. And unlike the Gossett family, they're not out hawking their story to every media outlet. Many of Kenny's family members are a little embarrassed that Kenny is even named as a suspect.

Are you admitting that you and the publishing company are thinking this far ahead of time?
First you have to convince the public KC was Cooper!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

Quote

Innocent victims of the Cooper saga can try to forget the things that happened or they can face the demons head on. The victims can choose to stay silent, but now is the time to speak. After I am gone they will have no voice...as I am the only one who knows their secret.

What secret Jo? Why tease? You needn't name individuals, but why not speak plainly? Why are you compelled to dangle tidbits which allegedly are important to the case, but hide the substance with ominous warnings about harm that will come to innocent people if you go further. Is it any wonder that we yawn?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

.

Quote

'... Another suspect in the case, Duane Weber, was named by his widow as possibly being the hijacker. However, the evidence against Weber is slim at best, and he cannot be placed anywhere in Washington state or Oregon at the actual time of the crime. Weber, a reletively small-time crook, did prison time in Washington but his widow has yet to convince the F.B.I. he was the hijacker. They dismissed Weber as a suspect long ago, mostly based on a small amount of DNA evidence from the tie the hijacker left on the plane. The F.B.I. says that a sample submitted by Weber’s widow eliminated Duane Weber as a suspect. Jo Weber continues to insist that her late husband was Cooper, no matter what the F.B.I. says. To be fair, this supposed DNA evidence the F.B.I. offers is suspect in itself, since the tie was previously handled by dozens of people over a period of more than thirty years before anyone tested it for DNA.'

Correctiions I didn't name him - he told me he was Dan Coooper.
Reletively that is mispelled is it not?
Duane was in more than one prison - infact Washington was the state they told me was NOT in prison in - yet, I held the records in my hands while the FBI stood on the other end of the line saying my husband had NEVER been in McNeil.

The articles I submitted I didn't see how the could get DNA - I got rid of everything after he died and cleaned and cleaned - plus other people trying things on at a garage sale.

Regardless I respect what you said and how you handled it, but it still should read he told me he was DAN Cooper.

By the way I DID put DUANE in WA. and OR. Why do you think the FBI is in a tizzy. They know he helped build the Hataway Park in Washougal. He had contacts in Rufus and Biggs and 2 men claimed he worked as a dishwasher at the Old Spillway Tavern in The Dalles.

Geeze - now I sound like Jamie! or is Jamie the Young Male version of me a few yrs ago?

If you actually talk to the agent of RECORD he will tell you Duane Weber is still a suspect and has NOT been"ruled" out - only excused due to DNA they don't even know belonged to Cooper.

Sure I am picking on you - bet your boopy.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

I have told the story several times in the thread and the other one about the DNA, but here goes and I hope it jives with the other posts I made about the DNA. Very tired right now.

In Nov or Dec of 2002 Agent Hope contacted me about DNA....he wanted it like NOW. I told him that I had waited on the FBI for 6 yrs and they could wait a couple of months. I explained it was Christmas and I had remarried and anything I had left of Duane's was in the attic.

In March of 2003 I had put together somethings, but I was UP front with them about not knowing if he ever wore the gloves and others had tried them because they were almost new. I sent tools but never knew if he used them.

I think I sent a pipe, but I kept the 2 he used...but other people had put them in their mouth when they saw his collection of pipes. Some never used. You would be amazed at how some guys and boy just have to see themselves with a pipe in their mouth especially around a mirror if they think no one is looking. All of these items where on a garage sale.

I explained the razor I sent had been cleaned and used by me and by others. It was basically new when he died.

All of these things except the razor had been stored in a HOT humid attic since 1996 after having been cleaned.

I am a clean freak.

I didn't authorize anything - the FBI called me and when I had a chance to put the stuff together they sent 2 agents to pick it up. I would not allow them to come to my home since I had remarried - so they picked it up at a model home I was sitting. (I was a real estate agent).

I only have ONE item I know would still have Duane's DNA on it
and the agent said mail it to them. Bull! - A watch worth well over 10K. I told the agent it took me over 5 yrs to gain possession of the first things. I offered to take the watch down to a lab and let them obtain DNA samples while I waited. They would NOT accept that. I keep it protected and it should have Duane's DNA.

NOW THE CRUST OF THIS STORY IS THE FBI RETRIEVED THE DNA IN MARCH OF 2003 AND DID NOT RUN THE FIRST TEST UNTIL NOV. OF 2007. It was not returned to me untIL 2008. Where were the items for 5 yrs that they wanted so quickly? Why did they wait until 2007 to test them?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Robert99 50]

Jo, I would suggest that you get a copy of Himmelsbach's book and check out what he says about Bohan. But the following is my response to your questions and I doubt if you will find them satisfactory.

In 1971, there were two Victor airways between the Seattle and Portland (now Battleground) VORTACs. V-23 was a dog-leg type airway that departed the Seattle VORTAC (which is located on the Seattle airport proper) outbound on radial 175 and at the Mayfield (now Malay) intersection turned inbound to the Portland (now BTG) VORTAC on radial 329. V-23 had a total distance of 105 nautical miles between these two VORTACs.

V-23 East was the other airway. It departed the Seattle VORTAC on radial 165 and flew directly to the Portland (now BTG) VORTAC with its inbound radial being 345. V-23 East has a total distance of 102 nautical miles between these two VORTACs.

V-23 is the only airway mentioned in the transcripts of the flight crew discussions with the ground people in Seattle prior to their takeoff. But V-23 required only a minimum of 5000 feet altitude and V-23 East required 9000 feet. Based on my previous calculations, if NWA had chosen V-23 East they would not have been able to get to 9000 feet by the time they reached the sector that required that altitude based on their actual achieved climb performance on V-23.

In Himmelsbach's book, Bohan is quoted as saying that he had "80 knots of wind, from 166 degrees, right on my nose" at 14,000 feet. This statement, by itself, requires that Bohan be on V-23 East and there are other considerations that require the same.

It should also be noted that V-23 East passes closer to the Lake Merwin area than V-23 which the airliner was on. So Bohan's aircraft was closer to the initial estimated jump scene than the hijacked airliner.

There is no information whatsoever to even suggest that Bohan was west of the hijacked airliner at any point or that he was ever close (say within 20 or 30 miles) of the hijacked airliner. If Bohan took off from Seattle "four minutes" behind NWA 305, he was undoubtedly on the ground in Portland long before the airliner got to the Portland area.

If you want to see maps of NWA 305's flight path, take a look at the FBI maps (which I don't consider to be believable). I am not aware of any maps that describe Bohan's route (except the IFR low-altitude charts).

Winds aloft are measured with respect to true north (or the ground grid lines). So if you can locate South and West, then face halfway between then and the southwest wind will be blowing in your face.

I have never heard of a "Simple Map" but I can only assume that Bohan was speaking to Himmelsbach in plain English and speaking what he felt was the truth. Nevertheless, there is nothing to support Bohan's statement of 80 knot winds at 14,000 feet plus high winds on landing at the Portland airport.

Due to several cloud layers and an undercast, it is very unlikely that Cooper could have identified anything in the Lake Merwin area or that NWA 305 even passed close to that area. Bohan's flight path probably fits the Lake Merwin area better.

Your statement ". . . but the winds caught him [Cooper] and took him East and West" is something that I cannot comprehend.

FULL DISCLOSURE: Jo, in all honesty, I do not find anything in your discussions about Duane Weber to be believable. That is, the attempted Duane Weber scam just doesn't fly. In all seriousness, I would suggest that you wait eight hours after popping a cork or having a smoke before writing e-mails about the Duane Weber matter.

Robert Nicholson

[JamieCooper 0]

http://www.dropzone.com/images/videos/assets/4/1924-Flying_Men__Flying_Machines.wmv
It's been suggested these jump tests in this video were in Thailand? I don't understand?
it flat out says it's in japan.
where are people getting the idea it's Thailand? and yes I've already read through the old posts.

[377 22]

Quote

http://www.vietnam.ttu.edu/AirAmerica
It's been suggested these jump tests in this video were in Thailand? I don't understand?
it flat out says it's in japan.
where are people getting the idea it's Thailand? and yes I've already read through the old posts.

Dead link Jamie. try again.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[JamieCooper 0]

Quote

Quote

http://www.vietnam.ttu.edu/AirAmerica
It's been suggested these jump tests in this video were in Thailand? I don't understand?
it flat out says it's in japan.
where are people getting the idea it's Thailand? and yes I've already read through the old posts.

Dead link Jamie. try again.

377

deleted the post because I found it was edited misleadingly
it's a snippet from a military film titled "flying men, flying machines" dated 1971
toward the end the edited snippet had audio saying "we are here in Thailand..."
I downloaded the full original film and that audio was taken from the segment directly after the jump capabilities demonstration.
someone either edited this video to be misleading on purpose or by accident. thus wrongly supporting this Thailand CIA jump theory. after looking at the extracted audio wav file it was obviously edited to mislead.
the original film plainly shows these jump tests were in or near Yokota Japan.
the film was commissioned by the CIA and Air America

I found a newspaper article that shows my uncle was stationed at the Navel air facility in Atsugi near Tokyo. the same vicinity of these tests, from 1968 to 1971 as production control chief.
the relevance?
He could have talked about the 727 jump capabilities with my father.(for example while home for a holiday visit), thus my Father could have had at least limited knowledge of how to pull off the NORJACK jump before going to Seattle.

snippet I edited to remove the misleadingly added audio.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjJPNx72JBc

full untouched original version can be downloaded at:
http://www.vietnam.ttu.edu/AirAmerica/FMFM/index.htm

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

FULL DISCLOSURE: Jo, in all honesty, I do not find anything in your discussions about Duane Weber to be believable. That is, the attempted Duane Weber scam just doesn't fly. In all seriousness, I would suggest that you wait eight hours after popping a cork or having a smoke before writing e-mails about the Duane Weber matter.

Robert Nicholson

There is NO attempted scam on my part. I might buy one bottle of wine every 2 months and as for smoking - I do not smoke in my house or my car...therefore I am NOT smoking when I am on the computer and only rarely have I treated myself to a bottle of wine.

You are not infront of me so I can show you on a map and explain where Duane took me and the things he said - if you were, perhaps you might understand what I am trying to say.

I believe Duane landed East of the plane route. I have never understood the wind thing and even with your attempt to get through to me - it is all gobbly gook to me. I wish you or someone you knew could sit me down with maps (plain black and white maps without all of the technical stuff on them) and show me exactly what you are talking about. Perhaps you know someone in my area that could do that for me - I would appreciate it.

If you knew me you would know there is NO ATTEMPT on my part to scam anyone. If I was scaming anyone - ask yourself why at my age I have continued to do what I do (a scam artist would have already have written a book) and I would not be here on this thread submitting myself to being called names and accused of things I have not done. Please be a little more respectfuly when you talk about me.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Robert99 50]

Quote

Quote

FULL DISCLOSURE: Jo, in all honesty, I do not find anything in your discussions about Duane Weber to be believable. That is, the attempted Duane Weber scam just doesn't fly. In all seriousness, I would suggest that you wait eight hours after popping a cork or having a smoke before writing e-mails about the Duane Weber matter.

Robert Nicholson

There is NO attempted scam on my part. I might buy one bottle of wine every 2 months and as for smoking - I do not smoke in my house or my car...therefore I am NOT smoking when I am on the computer and only rarely have I treated myself to a bottle of wine.

You are not infront of me so I can show you on a map and explain where Duane took me and the things he said - if you were, perhaps you might understand what I am trying to say.

I believe Duane landed East of the plane route. I have never understood the wind thing and even with your attempt to get through to me - it is all gobbly gook to me. I wish you or someone you knew could sit me down with maps (plain black and white maps without all of the technical stuff on them) and show me exactly what you are talking about. Perhaps you know someone in my area that could do that for me - I would appreciate it.

If you knew me you would know there is NO ATTEMPT on my part to scam anyone. If I was scaming anyone - ask yourself why at my age I have continued to do what I do (a scam artist would have already have written a book) and I would not be here on this thread submitting myself to being called names and accused of things I have not done. Please be a little more respectfuly when you talk about me.

Jo, No offense intended. If your post #20208 had been written as clearly as the above, those remarks would not have been made in the first place.

Robert Nicholson

[JamieCooper 0]

Quote

Kenny Christiansen did it and that's that...

Just kidding.

Have a great Christmas everyone. I have a TON of work to do on a pair of books and not much time to do it in. I will check in after the holidays.

Don't miss the History Channel show. Thursday, January 6th, 10PM Pacific/9 Central.

Original version of 'Into The Blast' is officially canceled. New version available on the same day the show airs.

lol
nope! parachuting has always existed, it wasn't invented by creative people taking chances and pulling off what was previously thought impossible.
thats why noone has found a body or anything to support the idea that he failed. yet we can pinpoint a rock on mars from earth.
lol
the white man has got a gun, thats his whole problem.
I'll be checking it out! have a great holiday season.

[377 22]

Jamie wrote:

Quote

the white man has got a gun, thats his whole problem.

Guns? I though money was the root of all evil.

If you have no money you are poor.

If you have no guns you are ____?

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

377 Said:

Quote

If you have no guns you are ____?

Impotent?

A victim?

Insecure?

Wealthier

A resident of California, Massachusetts, Connecticut or New York City?

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[JamieCooper 0]

If you have no guns you are ____?

less likely to have a gun related accident, less likely to be the victim of a violent crime, and not overcompensating for something

[377 22]

Quote

If you have no guns you are ____?

less likely to have a gun related accident, less likely to be the victim of a violent crime, and not overcompensating for something

If have no parachute you are_____?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[JamieCooper 0]

If have no parachute you are_____?
parachute-less duh ,lol ;)

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Quote

Jamie wrote:

Quote

the white man has got a gun, thats his whole problem.

Guns? I though money was the root of all evil.

If you have no money you are poor.

If you have no guns you are ____?

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays.

377

"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[JamieCooper 0]

Quote

Jamie wrote:

Quote

the white man has got a gun, thats his whole problem.

"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."

to each their own I figger, strange how even on the web that gun toting insecurity bleeds through.

oh yeah wheres db coopers body?
I rest my case.

[quade 4]

Quote

If you have no guns you are ____?

Let's get back on topic. While I understand a certain amount of gun discussion might be relevant to this thread, let's keep it to that and not drift into the abyss of a discussion about victims, gun rights, ect.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Erroll 80]

Quote

If you wake me in the middle of the night I come downstairs in a really bad mood carrying the bat.

And if the bad guy who woke you has a bunch of garlic around his neck, what's good is the bat going to be???



Happy Christmas.