DB Cooper

[JerryThomas 0]

Jamie. The chute found and reported to Larry Carr was not one of the chutes used by Cooper. Larry Ralph and I discussed this in detail. I had Larry contact the man that gave the chutes to the FBI.The man went to Larry's office in Seatle and viewed the chute and made the Identification. He stated it was not any of the 2 missing chutes. Besides there was to much of the chute left for it to have been at its location for that long of a period.Your other question has been answered in a previous post. However the pull chord had to be jerked up real hard then jerked out.with excess travel.Jerry

[JamieCooper 0]

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Jamie. The chute found and reported to Larry Carr was not one of the chutes used by Cooper. Larry Ralph and I discussed this in detail. I had Larry contact the man that gave the chutes to the FBI.The man went to Larry's office in Seatle and viewed the chute and made the Identification. He stated it was not any of the 2 missing chutes. Besides there was to much of the chute left for it to have been at its location for that long of a period.Your other question has been answered in a previous post. However the pull chord had to be jerked up real hard then jerked out.with excess travel.Jerry

thanks!
but this doesn't prove he died. in fact it shows that if he "jerked up real hard then jerked out.with excess travel. the chute would work." considering the mans life was in the balance, and he wasn't necessarily an experienced jumper, why should we assume these modifications would have factored in at all. He would have assumed they were the norm, and pulled and jerked until the chute opened, this is assuming also that he didn't open it prior to the jump, which we have no way of knowing either.

also you didn't address the following questions:
how can you make a statement about the capabilities and creditability of all members of the FBI, when even the speaker of the house for the GOP was recently sentenced to 3 years in prison?
it would seem in every type of position in the USA there are good employees and bad, how would FBI be able to overcome and exist outside, above and beyond these universal inherit human conditions?
also where is the body? parachute, rest of the rig, and money?
the inclusion of this "Dan Cooper comic book" as FBI evidence, when in fact, it didn't even exist in 1971, is proof that the FBI is not infallible.
keep in mind I'm not suggesting an FBI conspiracy but at the same time why should we assume the FBI is immune to universal facts of humanity?

also on 2 occasions I saw parachutes on my fathers farm, the first was a orange and white one hanging over rafters, with a dark army green colored pack near it.
I don't know if the 2 were used together or not, the other chute I saw was a white one that had been used for a dropcloth while painting cars.
could either of these chutes fall within the description of the chutes that were given to the Norjack hijacker?

I have also heard claims that even if he did survive the jump he would have died in the cold.
but here in MN, today it is 0 degrees, later this week it will be as cold as 100 degrees below zero with windchill factored in.
this is not a rare occurance.
when people survive these conditions here every year, why shouldn't they be able to survive much less harsh conditions in Washington, especially if the person is from MN?

[JerryThomas 0]

Great questions? How can you prove me wrong.You can't. I believe it was Quade that used the cookie Jar example a while back. If I say I bought OREO cookies and put them in a cookie jar 10 years ago and the cookie jar is now gone how can you prove it didn't happen.Besides Ive known Ralph for over 25yrs and this man is one of the most honorable men that I know and ever will know.he would never be a part of any conspiracy or deception to the public.Nor would Larry Carr.However unlike my cookie jar the FBI keeps records and the files on this case has been reviewed by many. One well known reporter for the Seattle Times by the name of Richard Seven reviewed the entire case file in the early 90's when Ralph Hope was the case investigator.This was well before Jo or most of the people on drop zone even had an interest in this case he found the files to be will kept and so have I. He even published an article on it in Jan 96. I believe that he's also related to one of the reporters from chanell 12 news out of Portland. I asure you that the agents involved in this case are credible as well as honest. Jerry

[JamieCooper 0]

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Great questions? How can you prove me wrong.You can't. I believe it was Quade that used the cookie Jar example a while back. If I say I bought OREO cookies and put them in a cookie jar 10 years ago and the cookie jar is now gone how can you prove it didn't happen.Besides Ive known Ralph for over 25yrs and this man is one of the most honorable men that I know and ever will know.he would never be a part of any conspiracy or deception to the public.Nor would Larry Carr.However unlike my cookie jar the FBI keeps records and the files on this case has been reviewed by many. One well known reporter for the Seattle Times by the name of Richard Seven reviewed the entire case file in the early 90's when Ralph Hope was the case investigator.This was well before Jo or most of the people on drop zone even had an interest in this case he found the files to be will kept and so have I. He even published an article on it in Jan 96. I believe that he's also related to one of the reporters from chanell 12 news out of Portland. I asure you that the agents involved in this case are credible as well as honest. Jerry

while I won't argue the reliability of people,
there is a possibility that I could prove the "He died in the jump theory" wrong actually.
the briefcase that my mother claimed was used for norjack along with various other evidence she used to blackmail my father, was stashed in an attic. it may still be there.
also there is a chance that the chutes I saw may still be around for examination.

[JerryThomas 0]

Jamie I didn't address all your questions in my last response. My dog just drug a wild turkey up to the door. I had to remove it. Believe me I know about cold weather.I live in the mountains at 5000 ft its already been -50 below with wind chill here just a few days ago. I was a survival Instructor up at FT Greely Alaska at the Northern warfare center (NWTC) and have been out in plenty of -70 and below with out windchill. However the hyjacker was not dressed or prepared for the weather in which he jumped. As I mentioned earlier if you read past post of mine all this is explained after you read those post you will find that it wasn't possible for this man to survive. As for parachutes your father had those have always been easy to get especially from Army Surplus stores they made good picnic tarps and tents also car cover's farmers even used them to cover hay bails during short rain storms but as a kid from the farm I'm sure you knew that. Jerry

[JamieCooper 0]

no I'm not a farm kid, his farm was more of a hobby farm to begin with and a place to store his private airplane.
I barely knew my father, after he returned from seattle in late 1971 my parents divorced and my father was for the most part on the run always looking over his shoulder until he drank and smoked himself to death. my mother and him stayed n a spotty type of contact for the most part with her always trying to get proof of him being DB Cooper, and having me use the name "Jamie" instead of my real name "Donald" so when he was caught I wouldn't be stuck with the same name of a nationally known criminal.

[JerryThomas 0]

Sorry to hear that.I'm sure your a Good person.Jerry

[Orange1 0]

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For those of us just starting to follow this intriguing drama series. Could all of those claiming to be DBC or know DBC please summaries the previous seasons storyline.

Either Weber was Cooper, or Christiansen was Cooper, or Jamie's dad was Cooper, or or Vicki's dad was Cooper. (Preceding seasons included: Gosset was Cooper, Mayfield was Cooper, the whole crew invented a Cooper, or it was a mind control experiment to make lots of people think they were Cooper). Or someone else was Cooper. Most of us think the last. Guru continues to deny he was Cooper.

Cooper may or may not have survived the jump. Clearly if he didn't none of the names that have been put forward were Cooper.

The 2 Duane adherents argue among themselves as to who is more crazy because each has their own version, although both of them involve conspiracies and conjectures that are wildly unbelievable to everyone else, not least because they never manage to come up with logical answers to simple questions. Vicki keeps a low profile. Blevins has a TV program and a book arguing his point of view. Jamie is after a lost briefcase which may contain evidence that it was his dad. Jerry was pronounced deceased by Knoss but has magically resurrected on the forum. Quade banned Georger for a while and we get the feeling more bannings may follow.

I think that's it? Anything of substance I left out?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[airtwardo 7]

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For those of us just starting to follow this intriguing drama series. Could all of those claiming to be DBC or know DBC please summaries the previous seasons storyline.

Either Weber was Cooper, or Christiansen was Cooper, or Jamie's dad was Cooper, or or Vicki's dad was Cooper. (Preceding seasons included: Gosset was Cooper, Mayfield was Cooper, the whole crew invented a Cooper, or it was a mind control experiment to make lots of people think they were Cooper). Or someone else was Cooper. Most of us think the last. Guru continues to deny he was Cooper.

Cooper may or may not have survived the jump. Clearly if he didn't none of the names that have been put forward were Cooper.

The 2 Duane adherents argue among themselves as to who is more crazy because each has their own version, although both of them involve conspiracies and conjectures that are wildly unbelievable to everyone else, not least because they never manage to come up with logical answers to simple questions. Vicki keeps a low profile. Blevins has a TV program and a book arguing his point of view. Jamie is after a lost briefcase which may contain evidence that it was his dad. Jerry was pronounced deceased by Knoss but has magically resurrected on the forum. Quade banned Georger for a while and we get the feeling more bannings may follow.

I think that's it? Anything of substance I left out?

You left out the missing jar of Oreos!

...and we return to the never ending saga of 'As The Prop Turns'

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[quade 4]

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Hi Quade not trying to cause trouble just stating fact. Jerry

Understood and never any hard feelings.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[quade 4]

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. . . had you the intellect of a aphid you . . .

You WILL cease making comments like this or you will cease having the privilege of posting in this forum.

The choice is yours.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[377 22]

Airtwardo wrote:

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you're on a skydiving website, we only brag about stuff we've actually done.

That's true if we are bragging at our local dropzone where people can smell jumper BS from 14,000 ft.
At a non jumper party with hot women and a few drinks, we become single, BASE jumpers, wingsuiters, skimming through Alpine rock mazes, stunt men doubles for major movie action heroes, etc.

Tell me I'm wrong Airtwardo.

Jamie, don't tar skydivers with the uncaring hedonist brush. You'd be surprised at how much charity work and donations come from the skydiving community.

I am with Blevins on supporting independent bookstores, but now even the big chains are suffering too. Borders is on the edge of BK. I greatly prefer real books over Kindles, but the world is changing.

Jamie, what Jerry is referring to on the rig Cooper jumped is that it was an overstuffed container,(small pack (NB6) big canopy (28 ft C9)) and that can result in very high pull forces being needed on the ripcord handle to open the chute.

What can happen in a panic situation is that a jumper with a hard pull thinks he is pulling on the wrong piece of hardware and puts his hand on something else, often harness webbing and starts pulling hard on that and fixates on it pulling all the way until impact. This isn't a theory, it has happened with experienced jumpers on sunny days.

Was the pull impossible? No, but I'll bet it took a lot of force and that's a setup for the scenario described above.

A jet jump at night is a further disorienting factor as a smooth stable exit is highly unlikely. Tumbling without a horizon reference is guaranteed to cause problems.

Still, if Cooper were an experienced jumper he could have deployed the chute. I have had two REALLY hard pulls on similar rigs when I was a freefall student and I eventually managed to get the chute open without going to my reserve., but that was in daylight on warm summer days.

Hang in there Jamie. Don't hurl insults and if you receive them just ignore em. You'll note Vicki is treated gently here and it's because of her polite non confrontational approach. You don't have to kiss butt, just be nice. That's all it takes. You havent started all the fights, I can see that, but you've missed a few opportunities to stop them.

I am glad your music is geeting a big audience. Having no talent in music or art I admire those who do.

Any feedback from the cops on the Vocks or DBC info you provided?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Robert99 50]

Jamie, what Jerry is referring to on the rig Cooper jumped is that it was an overstuffed container,(small pack (NB6) big canopy (28 ft C9)) and that can result in very high pull forces being needed on the ripcord handle to open the chute.

What can happen in a panic situation is that a jumper with a hard pull thinks he is pulling on the wrong piece of hardware and puts his hand on something else, often harness webbing and starts pulling hard on that and fixates on it pulling all the way until impact. This isn't a theory, it has happened with experienced jumpers on sunny days.

Was the pull impossible? No, but I'll bet it took a lot of force and that's a setup for the scenario described above.

A jet jump at night is a further disorienting factor as a smooth stable exit is highly unlikely. Tumbling without a horizon reference is guaranteed to cause problems.

377

[Orange1 0]

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Jamie and 377, Don't forget that Cooper only had between 40 and 60 seconds to troubleshoot and correct any problems that he had during the free fall.

Robert Nicholson

60 seconds from 10K? tumbling? = splat, surely

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[quade 4]

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Jamie and 377, Don't forget that Cooper only had between 40 and 60 seconds to troubleshoot and correct any problems that he had during the free fall.

Robert Nicholson

60 seconds from 10K? tumbling? = splat, surely

[innocent idiot voice]
Oh! But people have fallen out of planes and survived!
[/innocent idiot voice]

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Robert99 50]

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Jamie and 377, Don't forget that Cooper only had between 40 and 60 seconds to troubleshoot and correct any problems that he had during the free fall.

Robert Nicholson

60 seconds from 10K? tumbling? = splat, surely

Quade, It would take about 40 seconds or less to fall 10,000 feet in a head first position (at 180 MPH or more), about 60 seconds in a stable spread position (at 120+ MPH), and somewhere in between if tumbling.

While people have fallen out of airborne aircraft without parachutes and survived, there have been instances of people being killed from falls out of aircraft that were parked on the ramp.

Robert Nicholson

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[quade 4]

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Jamie and 377, Don't forget that Cooper only had between 40 and 60 seconds to troubleshoot and correct any problems that he had during the free fall.

Robert Nicholson

60 seconds from 10K? tumbling? = splat, surely

Quade, It would take about 40 seconds or less to fall 10,000 feet in a head first position (at 180 MPH or more), about 60 seconds in a stable spread position (at 120+ MPH), and somewhere in between if tumbling.

While people have fallen out of airborne aircraft without parachutes and survived, there have been instances of people being killed from falls out of aircraft that were parked on the ramp.

Robert Nicholson

[innocent idiot voice]
Oh! But people have fallen out of planes and survived!
[/innocent idiot voice]

In dictionary, under "sarcasm", see entry re: previous post.

But please, do tell me more about freefall speeds.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Robert99 50]

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Jamie and 377, Don't forget that Cooper only had between 40 and 60 seconds to troubleshoot and correct any problems that he had during the free fall.

Robert Nicholson

60 seconds from 10K? tumbling? = splat, surely

Quade, It would take about 40 seconds or less to fall 10,000 feet in a head first position (at 180 MPH or more), about 60 seconds in a stable spread position (at 120+ MPH), and somewhere in between if tumbling.

While people have fallen out of airborne aircraft without parachutes and survived, there have been instances of people being killed from falls out of aircraft that were parked on the ramp.

Robert Nicholson

[innocent idiot voice]
Oh! But people have fallen out of planes and survived!
[/innocent idiot voice]

In dictionary, under "sarcasm", see entry re: previous post.

Quade, Let me point out first that all the comments below my name above are your comments.

My desk dictionary defines "sarcasm" as "the use of iorny to mock or convey contempt".

Per our exchanges of a few days ago, my desk dictionary defines "satire" as "the use of humor, iorny, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices".

Robert Nicholson

[Robert99 50]

But please, do tell me more about freefall speeds.

Quade, Since you love to take issue with other people's computations, but refuse to show your own, perhaps you would be kind enough to consult your dictionary about the definition of the term "gravity".

Once you understand what that word means, perhaps we can have a meaningful dialogue without ego's getting in the way.

Robert Nicholson

[georger 244]

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Jamie and 377, Don't forget that Cooper only had between 40 and 60 seconds to troubleshoot and correct any problems that he had during the free fall.

Robert Nicholson

60 seconds from 10K? tumbling? = splat, surely

[innocent idiot voice]
Oh! But people have fallen out of planes and survived!
[/innocent idiot voice]

None survived it twice.

Only a couple off the Golden Gate Bridge have survived.

Robert's velocities (different configs) are correct.

Cossey's hard pull by WII standards was a
qualfiied hard pull - it all comes back to his
experience.

But its not just "hard pull". Cossey describes a
two stage pull ... out and up. Could an unskilled
person manage to perform that combined pull.
by accident?

[JamieCooper 0]

I see some flaws in the official theory.
wouldn't need to survive a no pull if he checked the chute before jumping.
why are we just assuming he didn't?
officially it's assumed he had no jump experience because otherwise he wouldn't have jumped?
really?
thats like saying everyone likes Justin Beiber or all white people are neo-nazis.
it's like a catch 22.
he can't be experienced because if he was he wouldn't have, and if he wasn't experienced he died.
and was washed out to sea or, not, or ???
all plausible I guess, but no more plausible than He checked the chute to see how it worked.
so far everyone who claims to be in the know, or has had access to the FBI files more than the rest of us says theres all kinds of things not released but, when asked what that is, it turns out pretty much all of it has been made public?
it can't be both ways. and the public shouldn't be expected to just accept an official story just because so and so says this is how it went.

[EVickiW 0]

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Either Weber was Cooper, or Christiansen was Cooper, or Jamie's dad was Cooper, or or Vicki's dad was Cooper.

Hey...I am not a math expert, but there is a 50/50 chance my Dad was D.B. Cooper. He either IS or he ISN'T.
I am not convinced that he is Cooper, just putting the information out there.

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[377 22]

Georger wrote:

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But its not just "hard pull". Cossey describes a
two stage pull ... out and up. Could an unskilled
person manage to perform that combined pull.
by accident?

It depends... Where you run into trouble is where the ripcord cable is making a 90 degree or greater sharp turn. The cable runs through a flexible housing (conduit) until it exits near the ripcord handle. The housing smooths things out and acts as a bearing surface to allow the cable to follow a curved path without hanging up. Once the cable exits the housing near the handle, sharp turns become far more problematic. The end of the cable housing has a smooth rounded surface (ferrule?) that acts like a pulley so that perpendicular forces can still exert a pulling force on the container closing pins that are swaged onto the cable, but it compromises things if the pull force is off the cable axis.

My rigger made sure that the end of the housing near the handle was not firmly attached at the end (he tacked it down to the harness an inch or so away from the end) so that it could flex to accomodate angled pulls, but I have seen rigs where this was not done. The best handle pull direction is one which is in the same direction as the cable runs inside the housing. The MEs can explain it better than this EE, but I think you get the picture.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bkreng.com/pcat-gifs/products-small/housing-rip-cord.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.bkreng.com/parachute-fittings.html&usg=__DfVlu-L8ehm-7E6Xp_pL6RQ4CtI=&h=215&w=215&sz=7&hl=en&start=7&sig2=sT0ibpDvzREmQJB7m3bW1Q&zoom=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=LHtQYTk78py2vM:&tbnh=106&tbnw=106&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dripcord%2Bcable%2Bhousing%2Bparachute%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox%26rlz%3D1I7GGLL_en%26tbs%3Disch:1&ei=YiouTYCNO8mytAaAoYDTBw

I do think with strong but humanly achievable pull force, the Cossey rig could have been opened without any complicated "out and up " sequence , but that's a guess. My point is that any significant difficulty in the initial stages of an attemped pull can set in motion a chain of events that has killed EXPERIENCED jumpers in in DAYLIGHT who had reserves! Sequence is: hard or no pull, jumper panics, grabs something besides a ripcord handle (usually harness webbing) and fights with it all the way to impact. Sounds implausible but it has happened multiple times in the days before AADs were common.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[JamieCooper 0]

not real comforting that the jump gear given for norjack wasn't realistically operational, especially considering the FBI didn't know if he was going to jump with a hostage or not.
I don't see how the FBI can insist that he didn't secure the briefcase or his shoes to himself in some way.
unless of course someone was there watching which, according to the public evidence isn't possible.
what were essentially left with is a dictated official story that ignores serious holes.
who is to say he didn't feed the canopy our the door first and didn't even need to pull to begin with?
sure it wouldn't have been a pleasant jump but still seems survivable.
far too many assumptions in this official story, only evidence that could prove it is either non-existent or not-public.
considering the age of this case, why with-hold anything at this point?

[nigel99 473]

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Cooper may or may not have survived the jump. Clearly if he didn't none of the names that have been put forward were Cooper

Sorry Orange but isn't one of Vickies possible clues that her father was not seen or heard of since 71. This means he MIGHT still be a possible suspect?

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.