DB Cooper

[skyjack71 0]

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EVickiW said:

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- The counterfeit money thrown over the bridge totaled $200,000.00.

I have been thinking about adding her dad to my “I Am D B Cooper” page. In doing the research, I discovered the $200,000 is incorrect. The number published in newspaper articles at the time the money was found (Spring of 1971) was $500,000 to $1M.

I guess there are as many myths surrounding the Melvin Luther Wilson case as there are around the DB Cooper case.

Does anyone have any published information that supports the $200,000 claim?

I felt her story was very sincere and his disappearing in 1971, I was surprise the program that featured her father on TV did Not consider him as a D.B.Cooper suspect. He walked away from his life without leaving a trace.

Usually after a television program that features a person who just disappeared - they get calls or leads. I had viewed photos of her father and suggested she do certain things before posting to much and she actually did it. I just didn't want to see her be just a number as her enquiry was so earnest.

She has done a LOT of work and
I didn't want to see her become another Cooper thread casualty. She has done an excellent job in getting information and talking to the authorities. I understand another poster here seems to think they can present her case to the FBI...but, we all know there is only one way to do that.

Collect the information and present it to the FBI agent of record - not to others claiming to have an inside with the FBI. You Sluggo are a good one to help her prepare this presentation to the FBI - you will take the information and methodically make it into a presentation the FBI will actually look at. Just the mention of your husband or father being Cooper raises eyebrows with the FBI - OH, another Wannabee! They just want Cooper to go away.

I had a problem with the eyes and his neck which seemed in the pictures to be very thick - almost - reminded me of someone I knew who had a goiter I think it was called. I am sure there are other condition that can cause that same appearance. One thing for sure he did a good disappearance act.

Vickie, I don't remember - Did the program do an age progression? 10yr and 25 yrs out.
He had fingerprints on file, right?
Those fingerprints should show up if he was ever arrested again or tried to get a job that required prints such as in insurance sales.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Vickies father was being held in Madison Pending a pre-sentence investigation on May 3, 1971.

How long does it take to do a pre-sentence investigation. Did he make bond and when was he released? I didn't see any articles that followed explaining this.


Vickie mentioned speaking with an old timer (Paul Severs) who did NOT tell her anything other than the case was inactive and no statute of limitation on a Federal Crime. She enquired about her father's prints and was told by Severs he did not think they were entered into the AFIS.

Her biggest mistake was saying even one word about Cooper and suddenly he has a phone call. Been there, done that.

Suggestion - Since the prints are still on file with his arrest record - why can't she petition the county to retrive the records and put his prints into the system - perhaps as a missing person plus the Federal crime. The hardest part about this is digging into the old file to retrieve the prints - the rest is just computers and paper work. Why didn't the TV program do this if they truely wanted to find this man?

Sluggo - how do we get this man's prints. Now this is a good case for one of the FBI training classes at the Universities that teach Criminology taught mostly by retired FBI agents. They could take on her father as one of their assignments on cold cases.

P.S. The FBI used prints from 1945 for Duane Weber and I never understood why they didn't use more current prints - they could verify belonged to Weber.
They never presented or used the Jefferson or Canon records.
WHY use prints made 56 yrs before....I never understood this.

The could NOT be positive a record that old had NOT been altered and that is ALL the FBI offered - prints taken in 1945.

I happen to know there are prints on file 1979 or early 1980 in Ft. Collins, Co, but they DID not even acquire those nor compare them to the 1945 prints. All I ever got about that was a COCKY answer from the FBI agent of record when I found out which file they used. NOTE: those are the only prints offered up by Agent Carr.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

Jo wrote

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Unless Jerry is in control he makes life miserable for anyone with a viable suspect. He treated me like a prisoner of WAR in a phone conversation after he came to this thread and I ended up in the ER that night.

Jo,

Either you are being a drama queen or Jerry has powers that the Pentagon needs to seriously investigate. I wish I could put people in the ER by means of a phone call.

I'm not doubting that you went to the ER. Just questioning causation and severity of the emergency.

You somehow equate Jerry's alleged misinformation about local geography with increasing the liklihood that DW=DBC. They are unrelated, orthogonal, not connected.

I really wish somebody had taken up Snow's offer to emulate the DBC jump to prove his contention that the night was survivable. Snow did cite the Winter 1945 Navy Corsair crash in the same general area to support his poition. That pilot jumped, survived and walked out. Jerry, who lives in the area, is ex Special Forces, a jumper and a survival trainer says no way did Cooper stay alive. Who is right?

Jerry, how do you explain the Corsair pilot survival?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Orange1 0]

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Blevins you got the Hoax questions in the same way I have tolerated them for 15 yrs

I don't know about most of the 15 years but I don't recall anyone on DZ.com accusing you of being a hoaxer ... just pointing out that you don't have a single shred of evidence to back up your claims. And no it's not the same thing, a hoaxer sets out to delude people, we know you honestly believe what you're saying even if we don't. But by the same token you were wrong to call Blevins a hoaxer, and rather than defending yourself a simple apology for using the wrong term might have sufficed.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[airtwardo 7]

I really wish somebody had taken up Snow's offer to emulate the DBC jump to prove his contention that the night was survivable.

I'll do it!

Pass the hat for a plane, I already have the pilot here, and can dig through my stuff for similar rig.

It would be great, I know how to smoke & drink bourbon too!

It sometimes amazes me when non-jumpers speak with 'authority' regarding D.B. not surviving the jump, parachutes don't care if it's cold, raining and dark...I have a lot of night jumps, on one hand they are almost easier because of less visual input distraction.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[quade 4]

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It sometimes amazes me when non-jumpers speak with 'authority' regarding D.B. not surviving the jump, parachutes don't care if it's cold, raining and dark...I have a lot of night jumps, on one hand they are almost easier because of less visual input distraction.

The particular point being made isn't so much about the jump itself, but the survival afterward and the probability of hypothermia setting in.

It's a point lost on many; the jump itself was just one aspect of getting away with it.

A special forces op trained in survival and E&E could almost assuredly pull it off. A person without any training at all or compromised by landing in a tree or landing injuries might suffer profound exposure and die within a couple of hours.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[airtwardo 7]

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It sometimes amazes me when non-jumpers speak with 'authority' regarding D.B. not surviving the jump, parachutes don't care if it's cold, raining and dark...I have a lot of night jumps, on one hand they are almost easier because of less visual input distraction.

The particular point being made isn't so much about the jump itself, but the survival afterward and the probability of hypothermia setting in.

It's a point lost on many; the jump itself was just one aspect of getting away with it.

A special forces op trained in survival and E&E could almost assuredly pull it off. A person without any training at all or compromised by landing in a tree or landing injuries might suffer profound exposure and die within a couple of hours.

Ever slept in a parachute?


He was a smoker so he had fire with him, and if he tied a good knot...22 pounds of kindling.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[EVickiW 0]

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In the article it says the counterfeit bills were found in April of 1971, and that by August of 1971, the person who made these bills had already been prosecuted and pleaded guity.

I have found that the media is not always correct when they write a story. If you read all the articles of his counterfeiting escapades you can find several discrepancies.

From what I have been led to believe, mostly from the taping on Unsolved, he left our home dressed to impress for his day in court. I am speculating here, but fresh haircut, dressed to the nines. I mean he was going to appear in Federal Court. I am not sure of the jurisdiction.....Madison? St. Paul? Minneapolis?

Remember the Unsolved story....When he met my Mother, he told he total fabrication about himself and his past.

Unfortunately, we are all on the same page here. I have learned more about my Dad in the last four months from postings and articles forwarded to me from posters in this forum.

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This scenario is a bit tough to swallow. If he had a record, and the Feds have mug shots on him, they are going to show those mug books to the stews and everyone else who saw Cooper. And they always start with the most recent books. You would think they would have gotten a lead on him pretty quick after the hijacking.

Depending on the investigation in 1971, I am not sure if the scope of their investigation included suspects from this area. It is all speculation and theories.

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[Guru312 0]

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Ever slept in a parachute?

He was a smoker so he had fire with him, and if he tied a good knot...22 pounds of kindling.

I've slept in a parachute and I've done a few other things.

As usual, Jim, you hone in on the issue in a few words. "...and if he tied a good knot..."

The act of tying the bank bag closed is trivial using 550 cord. Tying the bag to his harness or body sufficiently to survive exit and opening shock: damn near impossible.

Unless he gutted the cord, and used it without the core lines, he would have a near impossible time tying a decent knot...and supporting the money bag at the same time. Imagine the gyrations of movement that bag would have gone through with the forces of exit and opening shock.

Surviving the jump: very doable.

Having the money bag intact with him at landing: very unlikely.

Landing at some pre-determined point: at least as unlikely as the money bag staying attached to his body.

There are at least a few thousand people frequenting DZ.com who could pull off this jump and walk away. But the issue of tying the money to the harness single-handedly would be equally difficult for an experienced jumper.

This is a deja vu post.

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

[airtwardo 7]

Surviving the jump: very doable.

Having the money bag intact with him at landing: very unlikely.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

RobertMBlevins said:

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The only other explanation for his still being on the streets would be if he were released before he was actually sentenced, and then fled jurisdiction.

According to UM he was out on bail in September 1971 when he skipped.



EVikiW,

You probably know this already but in 1955 – 1957 there was a couple living in Janesville, WI by the name of Mr. and Mrs. Melvin Wilson. They were very active in a Baptist Church in Juda (near Janesville). He was chairman of the music committee and a member of the choir (you said your dad liked to sing). I have tried to locate the church, but it must not exist today.

I believe his last arrest was in Janesville. I’ll let you know if I find out more.

Also, I know you posted some photos here, I just don’t know which ones. Since I captured a few from the UM video to use if I decide to include Mel on my web-page I’ll post a few here. Maybe it’ll trigger a memory in someone.

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[nigel99 474]

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RobertMBlevins said:
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The only other explanation for his still being on the streets would be if he were released before he was actually sentenced, and then fled jurisdiction.

According to UM he was out on bail in September 1971 when he skipped.

I find the time line interesting. 377 aren't most "petty" criminals caught? It is interesting that he has simply vanished.

Is there any evidence that Mel had any exposure to Aircraft and parachuting or is this a major gap in his potential fit? On the assumption that the jump was unsuccessful I don't believe experience is required - but the Tina testimony suggested that the hijacker put on the harness like they knew what they were doing - so some familiarity should be assumed.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[EVickiW 0]

Actually, NO, I did not know that.

Yes, he sang in boys choirs when he was young. This is information from my sister. She had a picture of him in a group choir picture. I have contacted her daughter for information from the album and she has not returned any of my requests. He also left behind a Cornet when he left us.

He disappeared from his first family in 1954 when he was an inmate in San Quentin. Then UM says he spent time in Leavenworth, but did not state the dates. Leavenworth does not have any information on my being an inmate.

He then showed up in 1963 in Las Vegas , where he had a print shop. This is when he met my Mother. She worked for the Clark County Courthouse in LV.

Please if you find out anything about this "other" family in Janesville let me know. When I contacted Leavenworth records - they did have a record of someone form Duluth, MN with the name Melvin Roy Wilson.

The following is an excerpt from the e-mail I received on 12/22/2010

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I have searched the Index to Federal Released Inmates for 1911-1974 (which lists individuals released from all federal institutions) for Melvin Luther Wilson, along with our electronic finding aids and did not locate a federal inmate record for any person by that name.

I was able to locate an individual by the name of Melvin Roy Wilson born on June 10, 1927 convicted in Duluth, Minnesota and entered the Sandstone Penitentiary in December of 1946. I would be happy to send you a copy of this index card free of charge if you are interested. Inmate case files for individuals incarcerated at Sandstone however, were not deemed permanent records and were unfortunately destroyed after thirty years. The records we have in our holdings, from the Leavenworth Penitentiary have been kept as a historical sample.

Trial proceedings relating to Melvin Roy Wilson’s conviction are available within our records if you would like information or reproductions of his court records. Please let me know if you are interested in these records; they are stored off-site and will take a few days for them to be brought to our office

I think I will proceed and ask for these records.

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[EVickiW 0]

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=127047;

This was his booking picture on 4.20.1971 when booked into Dane County, Wisconsin on the counterfeiting charges.

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[skyjack71 0]

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Blevins you got the Hoax questions in the same way I have tolerated them for 15 yrs

I don't know about most of the 15 years but I don't recall anyone on DZ.com accusing you of being a hoaxer ... just pointing out that you don't have a single shred of evidence to back up your claims. And no it's not the same thing, a hoaxer sets out to delude people, we know you honestly believe what you're saying even if we don't. But by the same token you were wrong to call Blevins a hoaxer, and rather than defending yourself a simple apology for using the wrong term might have sufficed.

I suppose my idea of "Hoaxing" is different than what you are saying the definition is and I understand that. Hoaxing would be deliberate deception..right?

What you guys do NOT know is that Jo Weber was a proposed subject study at one of the Universities and for a proposed TV program. Not Cooper, but if I was telling the truth or perpetrating a HOAX.

After a yr and several months of trying to HOAX me this woman contacts me. She couldn't Hoax me so she wanted to offer her help. She and others studied everything that I ever wrote, every forum I ever participated in, ever documentary I was involved in and could NOT Hoax me.


By the way this Uncle owned property in St. Pete and Treasure Island during the time Duane was there and this Uncle's widow retired there a few yrs later after remarrying. The ex-con named Duane Weber who gave his occupation as "Crook" when he was arrested had names and addresses of individuals who lived on Treasure Island also stated "Call them - they know me". I expect one of the names on the list was this family member or his widow...at this moment I don't remember when Lyman died and when she remarried without looking it up.

Little I have done or said is a deliberate deception (other than to smoke-out people with outlandish stories told to me about Weber). There are things I suspect in the story Belvins is telling and the 'witnesses' are telling that are deliberate deceptions. Had I been agressive and more thorough in my presentation of material to someone other than the FBI - the financial records alone would have raised eyebrowns. I aways wondered how we afforded some of the things we did early on in our marriage (but, later everyone told me he was a thief and that supposedly explained the monies available in those early yrs).

That would take more than a book - 3 volumes might do it.
It has been impossible for me to sit with someone and recall all of the information I have discussed over the yrs in this DZ thread, the prior closed DZ thread, the Unsolved Mysteries thread and 101...I have told this story - ups and downs. There are certain things I do NOT tell even when they might help the story - because they are private and have to do with Duane's other families and pasts. To completely tell ALL of the story would damage other lives perhaps beyond repair - therefore the unveiling of truths is partly their decision - because they are the ones who will pay the price during their life times - I per my health and statistical survivability won't be around.

I do NOT want to be the human Tornado that leaves a path of destruction. I have been told these individuals need to enforce their own lives to withstand these forces, but HUMAN lives are not structures...and some would NOT survive the devastation I would leave behind with ALL of the truths. The question I have to always ask myself every time I am tempted to reveal the NO NO's....they are the ones who have to come forward on their own, but I doubt they will. Only 2 are left standing besides myself.

One who is left standing, should he fall would create a domino effect which could destroy more than one persons life. Too much potential for too much damage and it would probably NOT prove Duane was Cooper - only provide Motive. The disclosures are NOT worth the potential damages.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Thanks,

I will correct.

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Fixed.

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[EVickiW 0]

In addition, please cut any pictures of my mother from any you may have. PLEASE

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[Orange1 0]

All that long post did, Jo, was underscore the fact that you were wrong to call Blevins a hoaxer.

Edited to add: thank you for deciding to use different colours rather than bold. It really is less jarring, can't speak for anyone else but I appreciate it.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[skyjack71 0]

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http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KPDX/1971/11/24/DailyHistory.html?

Temp at jump time was almost 46 degrees on the ground, winds running maybe six/seven mph. Some light rain. Not exactly freezing storm conditions

THis is what I have tried to tell over and over and over, but the Myth only goes on and on and on.

Our weather in this part of Fla I live in has had 4 days of below freezing temperatures and with rain and with wind. We have had HOMELESS people who have refused refuge in shelters - instead sleeping under an old semi-bed in the woods.

I was out covering plants. I do NOT own a heavy jacket... I uncovered the plants as soon as the sun came out. I would forget to cover the plants early evening and it would be when the 10Pm news was on I would see the weather and know I needed to go out and cover plants.

Often I am up until 3 AM and I do NOT smoke in my home or my car - at 3 AM with temps below freezing I was outside smoking (sure I found a corner out of the wind and I am sure Cooper also found shelter out of the wind). What was I wearing - my flannel PJ's, socks, robe, and a nylon jacket (windbreaker) and gloves that came from the animal shelter free for a donation...just some kind of fleece.

There is a homeless man I feed once in while - I took him some hot food - he refused to go to a shelter (Vet afraid of closed in places and likes to be alone). He survived under a semi bed in the woods (no fire). Why no fire - because if the authorities found out he was there - he would be removed...and loose his hide-out. He has more than one "camp" in the area. One is a make shift tree platform (like a playhouse except the walls got vandalized) for summer weather.
That structure is no long usable.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Will do.

Sluggo

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[skyjack71 0]

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http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=127047;

This was his booking picture on 4.20.1971 when booked into Dane County, Wisconsin on the counterfeiting charges.

Good pictures:
I am having a problem with the eye color which is obviously light from the pictures (blue or hazel).

The lower lips are much more fuller than any composite and the area under his chin (I guess I call it a qoiter) - someone else might know what would cause this appearance. I just feel if Cooper had this fullness under his chin it would have been noted by at least one witness.

His disappearance in late 1971 fascinates me.

Question for anyone. Today do they fingerprint people before they bury them or cremate them? I have often wondered if Duane was fingerprinted before they cremated him...the funeral home is gone and no one knows where the records are or any details.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

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http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=127047;

This was his booking picture on 4.20.1971 when booked into Dane County, Wisconsin on the counterfeiting charges.

Photos are getting confusing.
You said the above was the booking photos from 1971, but they have a label on them that is different. Maybe wrong set of photos....or someone labled them wrong.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[EVickiW 0]

Sluggo labeled them. The pictures are from Unsolved.n

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[georger 244]

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Ever slept in a parachute?

He was a smoker so he had fire with him, and if he tied a good knot...22 pounds of kindling.

I've slept in a parachute and I've done a few other things.

As usual, Jim, you hone in on the issue in a few words. "...and if he tied a good knot..."

The act of tying the bank bag closed is trivial using 550 cord. Tying the bag to his harness or body sufficiently to survive exit and opening shock: damn near impossible.

Unless he gutted the cord, and used it without the core lines, he would have a near impossible time tying a decent knot...and supporting the money bag at the same time. Imagine the gyrations of movement that bag would have gone through with the forces of exit and opening shock.

Surviving the jump: very doable.

Having the money bag intact with him at landing: very unlikely.

Landing at some pre-determined point: at least as unlikely as the money bag staying attached to his body.

There are at least a few thousand people frequenting DZ.com who could pull off this jump and walk away. But the issue of tying the money to the harness single-handedly would be equally difficult for an experienced jumper.

This is a deja vu post.

Fact is we dont know how he tied the bag
(or briefcase also). Tina was not there to
observe in the final minutes. He had a knife.
He could have poked holes through the bag
and secured the bag at two or more points ...
we just dont know the facts except he did take
steps and gave the matter some thought.

He wasnt the complete idiot Himmelsbach would
have you think.