georger 244 #21001 January 21, 2011 Quote Quote I think DB had on long handles under that suit... Just sayin I spoke with Mitchell, the college student who sat across the isle from Cooper. I had 2 conversation with Mitchell and the contact was orginated with a family member. Without going back to my notes, he didn't pay much attention to Cooper and was the last person to reluctantly move forward, because he was studying. He didn't really pay much attention to the man. What he said "There was something sticking out from under his pants." I asked if it was socks and he didn't think so because the man had on Dark pants and socks don't hang down so he felt it was LONG UNDERWEAR. He told this to the FBI. He said he was a college student at the time and it had been too many yrs to remember what Cooper looked like. As for the photos I had at that time of Duane - he thought the ears might be too large, but it was his only negative comment and it had just been too many yrs for him to say that a photo of anyone was Cooper. He was young and just went on with his life - and that he truely did not remember what the man looked like. This is the same with any of the witnesses if they are being truthful. If you were on a plane in 1971 and 30 yrs later (I talked to Mitchell about 10 yrs ago) even though there was a commotion about this man - would you be able to identify a photo of Cooper after 30 yrs. I frankly do not believe there is anyone who could do that. It was Mitchell's opinion that Cooper was wearing long John's and that is the ONLY thing he really remembers regarding Cooper. Did Mitchell says Scott came back and sat with Cooper, as Rat/Blevins/Porteous are claiming? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #21002 January 21, 2011 Quote "These are good points, but remember: Cooper expected the money to come in either a knapsack or a backpack, NOT a canvas bag with a leather handle and a leather strap. (From Bill Rataczak) " This is an assumption not fact. Ratz is just like everyone else in this case. AN ASSUMPTION, not a fact based comment. Well, Whuffo I don't know who you are - but you have spoke with Rataczak. The FBI maintained the money was in a Whitish bank bag. The only person I had access to about the crime itself in 1996 was Mr. Himmelsbach. I asked him about a bag I had just recently took down to the mission. He told me the bag was insignificant and recited the whitish bank bag description. In the last year I got to speak with Mr. Rataczak indepth. I had another conversation with him yrs ago and we never got to have our next one because he was in that horrible accident. I STOPPED him before he could say anymore than leather handle and described the bag Himmelsback told me was unimportant. I describe how there was a thing in the middle that went under the handle (made of leather). I told him the shape of it and another thing I will be quiet about for the time being. I did explain the corners of the bag - when I got down to trying to describe the color, I told him I always had a difficult time with the color - I told him what it wasn't and then he added the last color - BINGO moment. When I talked to Himmelsbach yrs ago I had only recently donated the bag to the Mission and it might still have been in their warehouse. Mr Himmelsbach told me it was unimportant and the money went out of the plane in a whitish bank bag... The bag I described could easily have held 2 very large phone books with more room left over. The bag would have been very easy to have secured with rope to his body or to a harness worn under his jacket and with rope and /or hooks. Remember when I was making the posts about perhaps Tina helped Cooper find a bag in one of the overheads, because the FBI was adamant of how the money went on the plane...a whitish bank bag. You will notice that I do not talk about the bag anymore, because after my indept conversation with Rataczak - I knew how that money went out of that plane. When and where did you hear the story about the bag with the leather handle...? I have told it to individuals I know but, never described in in this thread. I had tried to tell people how that money went out of the plane and NOW you make a post describing "the bag" I was told was NOT important and that I discussed with the co-pilot.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #21003 January 21, 2011 Quote Scott never saw Cooper??? That is in conflict with page 27 of this document: http://www.adventurebooksofseattle.com/mediaonly/Blastpublicpreviewweb.pdf “Scott left the cockpit himself and headed to the rear of the plane to speak with Cooper. Several passengers turned their heads as he walked past. Scott pretended he was going to speak to a friend, so as not to alarm everyone. Taking a seat next to Cooper, he said quietly, “What’s this about a bomb?” Cooper let Scott glance into the briefcase for a split second. Scott got enough of a look to doubt the bomb was real, but he’d already been instructed to cooperate with the hijacker.” So when and how DID Blevins decide to use this - it is almost word for word the way it was in HA HA HA. I wanted to know who the author was and Georger told me that was evident - I have never found the person who actually wrote that book..I would have been interested in meeting that person.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #21004 January 21, 2011 Quote Quote Don't presume to tell me the rules about US copyrights. I'm quite familiar with them. I will presume that you don't know anything about how the Internet works. The following link takes you...or anyone else in the world!!...to your company webstie. Give it a try. It works for me. http://www.adventurebooksofseattle.com/mediaonly/Blastpublicpreviewweb.pdf Blevins is SO worried about Copywrite - perhaps Georger should find the author of the book called HA HA HA by D.B. Cooper. Blevins plagurized that...if he used the story about Capt. Scott! Since you guys have all contributed (including me) to Blevin's information - that means if someone who knows the REAL story tries tell it - he is going to come after them due to violation of Copyright. After all this thread did to help him get the fact right - he is hung up on copyright...yet just about everything he uses in regards to the crime itself came from this thread and from the story I and other have told for yrs.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #21005 January 21, 2011 yet just about everything he uses in regards to the crime itself came from this thread reply] I have the authors name in my files but dont want to spend the time looking it up - its not relevant. DID MITCHELL SAY ANYTHING ABOUT SCOTT COMING BACK AND SITTING WITH COOPER? WHERE IS RAT GETTING THIS FROM? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #21006 January 21, 2011 Jo Stated: Quote It was Mitchell's opinion that Cooper was wearing long John's and that is the ONLY thing he really remembers regarding Cooper. Georger enquired: Quote Did Mitchell says Scott came back and sat with Cooper, as Rat/Blevins/Porteous are claiming? Mitchell made NO comment about the Capt coming into the aft portion of the plane, but I did not ask - as I was single minded in my approach. Sorry - in retrospect I should have asked more questions, but I didn't want to take up much of his time. GEORGER! DON'T YOU REMEMBER WHEN WE DISCUSSED THIS CAPT SCOTT THING BEFORE IN THIS THREAD? Geeze, Guys - I am a 70 yr old woman with DUMB BLONDE SYNDROME and none of you remember the posts about the HA HA HA by D.B.Cooper. This feels SO GOOD! Georger, remember you told me the author was evident - but I still couldn't figure out who wrote the book. I had always wanted to meet the person who wrote that book. ALSO note-Porteous was gleaning information from me yrs and yrs ago and I told him about HA HA HA. Guess he read it! Porteous blames Blevins and Blevins blames Porteous... The HA HA HA was also discussed in the Unsolved Mysteries thread - but, not positive if I discussed in there or not. It has been discussed with people who have called me and in interactive sites (Porteous had one of those at one time). Find the author of HA HA HA. Wonder how much more has been gleaned from HA HA HA by Blevins, since it is basically unknown and no longer being published.....this is all about myths being created - right! So if it is actually FACT - then maybe Cooper really did live to tell his story to the author of Ha Ha Ha. So Blevins - Now do you believe everything everyone tells you? Guys, we should have left Blevins lost in the woods with HIS incorrect information and then one of us could have wrote a book with the REAL facts. We all just wanted to see ONE book with the correct facts - and look were our efforts got us. Why I only tell Duane's story in the manner in which I do...and have refused all offers with the exception of one. This guy did a querie letter after 12 hours of tapes and he didn't have the first fact straight in the 3 pages he wrote. I demanded a release and never went that far again...Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #21007 January 21, 2011 QuoteJo Stated: QuoteIt was Mitchell's opinion that Cooper was wearing long John's and that is the ONLY thing he really remembers regarding Cooper. Georger enquired: QuoteDid Mitchell says Scott came back and sat with Cooper, as Rat/Blevins/Porteous are claiming? Mitchell made NO comment about the Capt coming into the plane. GEORGER! DON'T YOU REMEMBER WHEN WE DISCUSSED THIS CAPT SCOTT THING BEFORE IN THIS THREAD? Geeze, Guys - I am a 70 yr old woman with DUMB BLONDE SYNDROME and none of you remember the posts about the HAHAHA book by D.B.Cooper. Georger, remember you told me the author was evident - but I still couldn't figure out who wrote the book. If you know contact him and tell him to call me if he is still alive...probably not. ALSO note-Porteous was gleaning information from me yrs and yrs ago and I told him about HAHAHA. Guess he read it! Porteous blames Blevins and Blevins blames Porteous... The HA HA HA was also discussed in the Unsolved Mysteries thread - but, not positive I discussed in there or not. But it has been discussed with people who have called me and in interactive sites (Porteous had one of those at one time). Find the author of HAHAHA. Yes I know we discussed all of this before. Ckret finally posted saying Scott DID NOT leave the cockpit. The HA HA HA book is nonsense Jo. Its author is just some guy. If Porteous borrowed this from that book, how can I know? He says he got this from Rataczak. Thanks for the reply. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #21008 January 21, 2011 Quote Yes I know we discussed all of this before. Ckret finally posted saying Scott DID NOT leave the cockpit. If Porteous borrowed this from that book, how can I know? He says he got this from Rataczak. If Blevins and Porteous CAN prove they got that from Rataczak and it was also in HA HA HA, then maybe - just maybe, we have found the 1st clue to finding the REAL Cooper. P.S. We are covered up with Canadians this year on the Gulf Coast. Just useless information, but one tall gentleman around my age - recognized me from a documentary or news report. I have total white hair now and wear it in a tight bun - so I was just a little taken off guard.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #21009 January 21, 2011 Since I have been questioned about the St Peterbury/ Treasure Island new articles I want to clarify something to everyone. In the artlcle Weber claims he spent 5 yrs in the Ohio Penitentiary. Well, I knew we had found an arrest, but NO convictions or record of him having resided in the prison. In 1950 when he was sentence to Folsom and then moved to SanQuentin the last 2 yrs before release in 1957...there is a NOTE in the files that state OHIO had cancelled WANTED charges against him. Without pulling the actual record they accepted his time in Folsom and San Quentin for the crime in Ohio. So what we have is an arrest in Ohio during the yrs missing on Weber. Since he was born and raise in Ohio - and just wanted to go back home after being released from McNeil and then spending some time in a "place" his parents arranged. Why did he go back to Ohio other than that is where he was born, but his mother and father are living in CA at that time. He had no family left in the Ohio area other than his Uncle. Does anyone know how to get the information on this? Was he convicted, encarcerated, escaped - or what. The FBI has NEVER provided me with the records.... and NO explanation as to why they never compared the McNeil prints with more recent prints...NOTE Carr never produced anything evidence and no documentation to me. I would appreciate a little help on all this if anyone is so inclined... My main concernes are 1946 - 1950 and the fingerprints...need comparison of the early prints and with older KNOWN prints. I think the FBI has made a lot of mistakes. These young agents did not take this old case seriously and looked thru rose colored glasses. 1945 prints should have been compared to later prints made at the other institutions...wonder what they will find (but, the FBI has waited for the 40 yr mark when his encarceration prints from Jefferson will be destroyed). This is ODD that on an old case like this that they did NOT compare the PRINTS on file from the later encarcerations.... Is this what they meant by a few more weeks - till they destory all of the evidence?Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryThomas 0 #21010 January 21, 2011 377 No the debris was at waterline points well above the bundles. The columbia river has a drastic tide level that changes with the tide of the ocean.As I have posted in the past It was washed up there after heavy rain fall. The money entered the columbia river from one of the washougal watershed tributaries.A lot of debris from the washougal watershed ends up on Tina Bar. Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #21011 January 21, 2011 Perhaps there were two bags? The white bank bag containing the money and a courier bag to transport the bank bag. I have seen this done a number of times. What Rat is describing is a courier bag. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryThomas 0 #21012 January 21, 2011 Geoger the Bag was a normal canvas bank bag.With no ties.According to the bank and the FBI and the stewardess and Ralph.Thats what was delivered to Cooper.I think this will be my last post for awhile you know how to contact me if you need too. Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #21013 January 21, 2011 QuoteGeoger the Bag was a normal canvas bank bag.With no ties.According to the bank and the FBI and the stewardess and Ralph.Thats what was delivered to Cooper.I think this will be my last post for awhile you know how to contact me if you need too. Jerry Ok I will bite. I am talking about how the bag may have been carried .......... to the plane, from bank to vehichle, from vehicle into SEA, from there to All Lee and from his car to the plane. These were all hand carries. A Brinks truck did not roll up to the plane to offload a large heavy limp white type canvas money bag. I am suspicious. I am suspicious that multiple people each have part of the story but no single person may have the whole story, and this has happened before in the Cooper case where you have multiple people reporting supposedly about the same event but none of these folks have the whole story. And the SeaFirst has done this to us before! We had one agent of the bank who swore the money was bundled and handled in one manner, then another agent saying something different, then a third agent saying something still different. Three different versions of the same event all sure of their stories. Turned out each was right but only to his own actions vis-a-vis the money. A did his thing then turned over the money to B who did his thing. B turned the money over to C who did his thing, and so on. You get the picture. Only by combining all of the stories did we know the whole true story which then made sense and fit what other witnesses were saying etc. Larry was involved in one of these events involving paper straps vs rubber bands and it took two weeks to unravel with Larry finally posting here about the snafu. This may be a similar story. Maybe not. I dont know. But I suspect there was photo evidence if it still exists and if someone cares to try and dig it up. This is why Im so cautious and reticent about these things. You just never know until ... There were so many official parties in this thing its amazing anyone got anything straight ... Here we are, seems like centuries after the fact, half the parties dead, trying to put pieces back together again. You know the problems with that. We've discussed that before. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guru312 0 #21014 January 21, 2011 QuoteAfter all this thread did to help him get the fact right -. he is hung up on copyright... His rants to me were wrong on multi-levels in addition to showing ignorance of both copyright law and the Internet. The worst part is what appears to be copyright violations that the company that he is associated with has committed. See the picture at this link which was the center of copyright rant: http://www.adventurebooksofseattle.com/mediaonly/Blastpublicpreviewweb.pdf Go to the link, You'll see a very nice picture of a paratrooper in what appears to be full combat gear under a T-10, or a more modern variation, ready to make a PLF. (Whuffos should not confuse a PLF with a PDF.) What you won't see in the AW book excerpt is any copyright or attribution for the photograph, near or embedded into the photograph. Nothing. Who took that picture? Did Jerry Irwin, Chris Wentzel, Carl Boenish or some other old-time jumper who made a living taking pictures of jumpers take that picture in the material referenced by the copyright expert guy. I'm wondering how long it will be before the picture disappears-- just like the 4 or 5 embarrassing rants about copyright. Catch it now because they'll be taking it down soon. It's more than a little surprising--and amusing--that a man who pontificates so much about his knowledge of copyright law would publish a picture without attribution.. Finally, I would like to ask Quade to consider removing either one or both posts Mr. Blevins made shamelessly hawking his product. See posts # 21387 and #21398 in this thread for what I mean. Two links to his company in eleven posts seems a bit much to me. The material may have some relevant value. I don't know because I don't care to watch any of it. My point is: if it has value, one link to it is fine and the other should be deleted. If the material is not relevant at all--meaning that it's just a way to sell books--delete it and let's move on. One great thing about having served in the 82nd Airborne Division is that I can scream at the end of my rants: AIRBORNE! All the way!Guru312 I am not DB Cooper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 22 #21015 January 21, 2011 QuoteA did his thing then turned over the money to B who did his thing. B turned the money over to C who did his thing, and so on. You get the picture. Wonder if DBC got the full $200,000? It passed through a lot of hands. Wouldn't be the first time a ransom got skimmed. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Farflung 0 #21016 January 21, 2011 Another documented source has confirmed the chute Cooper used was silk. In plain English at (4:45) in the video and I quote “disconnected the harness and the container from it, buried the silk part”. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02WxlT8q8HA PLFs? I was sure the instructors were shouting PFL. I simply could have misheard them since I was still gathering my senses after landing with a 10 mph wind and using the balls of my feet, then the side of my face to absorb the landing shock. Maybe they were in fact yelling, “That was another - Poor Lucking Fanding”. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 476 #21017 January 21, 2011 Quote After all this thread did to help him get the fact right - he is hung up on copyright.. Seriously Jo - you should be the last person on the thread to even mention copyrightSometimes banging your head against a brick wall is less painful than reading this thread! I must have a self harming streak in me...Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guru312 0 #21018 January 21, 2011 QuoteGuru 312 says in part: Quote'What you won't see in the AW book excerpt is any copyright or attribution for the photograph, near or embedded into the photograph. Nothing...' Acknowledgements page. Check that. Look under 'Image Credits'. We don't 'embed' the information. That PDF was part of the actual print file used by Lightning Source. . Impossible to check the acknowledgements page because the document has been removed. The server is throwing a 404 error: Not Found The requested URL /mediaonly/Blastpublicpreviewweb.pdf was not found on this server. Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request. Apache/1.3.39 Server at www.adventurebooksofseattle.com Port 80Guru312 I am not DB Cooper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #21019 January 21, 2011 QuoteQuote'Another documented source has confirmed the chute Cooper used was silk. In plain English at (4:45) in the video and I quote “disconnected the harness and the container from it, buried the silk part”. Yes, I said that. Just my way of saying 'the canopy'. Never said I was a skydiver or had all the terminology down. I think most people understood what I meant. the silk part = canopy? What silk part? What silk canopy? Oh! The silk Amboy canopy you keep insisting was the Cooper chute. Just slip that through the back door and it will become commonly accepted fact? I think most people will fall in line? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #21020 January 21, 2011 Quote Skipp Porteous emailed Bill Rataczak this morning and asked him to clarify the question about whether Scott actually went back to talk to Cooper. Skipp says if he doesn't get an answer by about noon, he's going to call him. I will post up the answer when I get it. If Scott didn't go back, then I will modify the book file. If he did, then I'm going with it and I'm going to credit this statement to Rataczak. When I find out what Rataczak says, I will post up the answer. I asked him specifically about this...only because it was in HA HA HA and it was being discussed in this thread at that time. One of the writers was also enquiring about this and couldn't remember where he had heard it...before and started to look. The only written material that references Scott going to the aft cabin was HA HA HA by D.B. Cooper. Gotcha!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #21021 January 21, 2011 Quote the silk part = canopy? What silk part? What silk canopy? Oh! The silk Amboy canopy you keep insisting was the Cooper chute. Just slip that through the back door and it will become commonly accepted fact? I think most people will fall in line? Yep, we can add another one to that list. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 22 #21022 January 21, 2011 Quotebefore you know it we will have Pink bunnies falling out of the sky with silk Canopies attached. Been there, seen that. WFFC. Naked women falling from the sky, lots of em. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #21023 January 21, 2011 Quote Quote Skipp Porteous emailed Bill Rataczak this morning and asked him to clarify the question about whether Scott actually went back to talk to Cooper. Skipp says if he doesn't get an answer by about noon, he's going to call him. I will post up the answer when I get it. If Scott didn't go back, then I will modify the book file. If he did, then I'm going with it and I'm going to credit this statement to Rataczak. When I find out what Rataczak says, I will post up the answer. I asked him specifically about this...only because it was in HA HA HA and it was being discussed in this thread at that time. One of the writers was also enquiring about this and couldn't remember where he had heard it...before and started to look. The only written material that references Scott going to the aft cabin was HA HA HA by D.B. Cooper. Gotcha! Bibliographic information Title Ha-Ha-Ha by D. B. Cooper Author D. B. Cooper Illustrated by Greg Ellingson Edition illustrated Publisher Signum Books, Limited, 1983 ISBN 0961203404, 9780961203405 Length 330 pages http://books.google.com/books? id=aqunAAAACAAJ&dq=Ha+Ha+Ha+by+DB+ Cooper&hl=en&ei=Bv05TbWWE8P38Ab39N3JCg&sa =X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCYQ 6AEwAA Didnt you once say you had the manuscript of this? For whatever its worth I do not think Blevins got his from this book ... I doubt he has ever heard of this book. I think Skip P. got it from Rat just as Blevins says, and only Rat can explain this. For the record, I did not say Rat would not talk to me. I said 'talk to us' but I did not explain. I have never tried to talk to Rat - me-myself- and-I. But I dont think Blevins even knows about Ha Ha Ha .... until now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 22 #21024 January 21, 2011 Two used HA HA HA copies on Amazon, from $18. http://www.amazon.com/Ha-D-B-Cooper/dp/B000ZFY4RA 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 244 #21025 January 21, 2011 Quote Two used HA HA HA copies on Amazon, from $18. http://www.amazon.com/Ha-D-B-Cooper/dp/B000ZFY4RA 377 I cant claim special knoweldge about this book - how would I have that? It wasnt covered in Madison's course on Foundational Mathematics, or Chaing's Bio Chem either. Or in sociology 101 ... or in that basket weaving class I took but that was all in the stone age. Some people say the author of HaHaHa is the illustrator. I know someone who would know. He sits in the basement of his Dairy Queen chucking out books for the last 30 years and talking New Age nonsense on Coast-to-Coast. I will have to consult my Guru! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
