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Farflung 0
Except, I don’t have the creative panache for such a production and therefore can’t claim authorship. I did however give a standing ovation from the front row for the effort.
I don’t have the resources to make such a creation as my time is divided between giving reading lessons at convents and doing volunteer work at a Doc Martens’ store.
QuoteDuring these yrs, I was talking "PRIVATELY" to the FBI, Himmelsbach, Jerry and making enquires of friends and relatives and ex-wives...but there was NOT a peek to the media.
"I wouldn't piss in a bottle for Larry Carr - he has NO jurisdition in the Cooper CASE."
Sounds like Duane talking . . .
Sure does doesn't it!
OH, so you knew Duane Weber? Otherwise how would you know what he sounds like? When did you meet him - was that in Prison?
Georger you left yourself wide open for that - I do have a sense of humor once in awhile...so hope you do also.
EVickiW 0
Quotemy time is divided between giving reading lessons at convents and doing volunteer work at a Doc Martens’ store.
Nuns and Lesbians??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs
georger 244
QuoteI would gladly lay claim to the ‘Dorkzone’ video as I think it is a masterpiece melding of music and the numerous tangents this thread has taken.
Except, I don’t have the creative panache for such a production and therefore can’t claim authorship. I did however give a standing ovation from the front row for the effort.
I don’t have the resources to make such a creation as my time is divided between giving reading lessons at convents and doing volunteer work at a Doc Martens’ store.
County worker in the same area as . . .
You aint no county worker near VCVR !
georger 244
QuoteQuoteDuring these yrs, I was talking "PRIVATELY" to the FBI, Himmelsbach, Jerry and making enquires of friends and relatives and ex-wives...but there was NOT a peek to the media.
"I wouldn't piss in a bottle for Larry Carr - he has NO jurisdition in the Cooper CASE."
Sounds like Duane talking . . .
Sure does doesn't it!
Be jocular!
Some were on the Titanic. (not my nany's sister.
she just drowned. Anna (Welsh from Saskatoon)
could never stop crying. She kept a glass case of
her sister's things for visitors to see.).
Ever been to Saskatoon or Regina? Coal
mining towns. But you wouldnt know much
about real work... you cant wriggle your way
out of...
Do you remember Nanna ?
Shelly does! Shelly's family and mine go
waaaaaaaaay back.
Jerry will confirm!
Did the work of good hand so - yes, I know how hard life can be.
Raised for a period of time 2 children by myself with NO support from their father. Worked 3 jobs at pme time.
That is not a difficult life by the standards of others, but more difficult than some. I know what it is to break a sweat and get my hands dirty and work 60 plus hours per wk.
QuoteTell the rest of the story Jo. Name all those you contacted. But the list is so long you will not even remember!
Why in the world would I make public the named of people to talked to in a public forum. Sorry I do keep those kinds of thing private.
I may not remember the one or two time contacts, but I do have everyone of them written down.
In fact I tried to make contact with one just yesterday - but the number was 11 yrs old and no longer belonged to that person.
I had found it in my 2000 file and thought I would revisit this because of some questions that were raised during my trip in Oct of 2010.. This person lived in that locality and I did NOT manage to get down to that part of OR. But the wrong number turned out REAL good - OR and WA have the nicest people I have ever met or talked to.
They offer to help when you ask for infomation about the late 40's and the history of their area and /or they know someone who might be able to help.
377 22
Quote377. Your comments of letting jamie back is exactly why Quade will not allow snow back. Its thinking like yours that made the phrase "give them a inch and they will take a mile famous". If there was any chance at all of Quade allowing snow back you just blew it for us with that post.Why? Because Quade will realize that you or some one else will use the complaint that you let snow back so why not this guy. If you had left it alone then Quade may have said. This one time this one person only! on a probationary basis, because he may actually be able to use his research abilities to investigate this new suspect and solve this crime then there would be no more use for this thread.Jerry
Come on Jerry, Quade isnt that fragile or delicate. He can make up his own mind no matter what I post about Jamie or anyone else.
If he is inclined to give Snow a chance he will. If he isn't he isnt. It doesnt depend on what I post. Quade can confirm or deny that if he chooses. How about it Quade?
I am not your enemy Jerry. Hold your fire. Save your ammo.
Must be nice to own a high yield gold mine while all this stuff in the Middle East is making your ore more valuable every day.
Funny, I am all soft and liberal about most things but irrationally crazy about the Somali pirates. I want great harm to come to them and fast. Must touch some nerve from my days making my living at sea.
Georger, I hear two of the recent pirate murder victims were ham radio ops.
I do like it that Jerry supports Snow's return. No matter how you feel about the guy the value of his contributions were high and we need him back.
Jo, just checking in on your recent tease. When will you deliver or do us the courtesy of cancelling it?
377
georger 244
377
When Hell freezes over and you are being pulled
stiff as a board out of some Snowbank with
Jo laughing warm and cozy on the next internet
forum, in Florida?
smokin99 0
QuoteIn addition, when the tie was found by the F.B.I. they noticed the tie tac had been slipped across the tie from the left side, indicating the wearer was probably left-handed. Christiansen was left-handed.
Or maybe Cooper just wanted people to think he was left-handed. Maybe that's why he left the tie? A red herring. Doesn't mean conspiracy - just a part of his plan. Maybe he watched too many episodes of Perry Mason.
Did the witnesses ever weigh in on this? (With which hand did he hold cigarettes, lift drink, etc.)
Jerry Stated to Blevins:
Your book is proof enough you don't even believe it was him. Don't forget to post the 25 reasons you don't think is him and the reasons you think Duane was cooper. Otherwise don't bother.Jerry
====================
Blevins then replied:
Really? I see you are unable to address any of the evidence. You have no answers to them at all. I never said I thought it was Duane Weber. Stop misquoting me. I said no one has proven 100% to my satisfaction that he WASN'T the guy.
The reason why I don't say 100% yes to Christiansen is simple. We have a strong case, but it's mostly circumstantial.
Maybe you missed this part:
Quote'Even with all these things, which only cover a portion of the evidence, we cannot say with certainty that Ken Christiansen was D.B. Cooper. But when people ask us how much chance there is that he was the hijacker, we say we're about 85-95% sure of it...'
=====================
Robert this is exactly what I have put up with for 15 yrs from Jerry Thomas. This thread was a sanctuary of mostly intelligent and well round individuals who were looking for answers and interested in investigating the crime in itself. Then JT found the DZ and started his MIND GAMES again, only this time he was publicly attacking me and others without any regard to all of the work the guys have done over the yrs in this thread.
We have not been able to get on track since because of his obsessive behavior toward me.
I don't mind being questioned and doubted, but he makes his attacks very specific - to do things and expose things that can cause physical harm to come to me. Jerry is too ignorant and self centered to understand the danger he places me in.
He is so far out of the loop he does NOT know that Carr has no official involvment in the Cooper case and has not since May of 2010.
One agent and only one agent handles all of the Cooper investigations - and Jerry doesn't know his name nor do you. The agents all of you have spoke with are what I call "fronts".
The FBI keeps a lid on the name of the investigative agent the case has been assigned to.
Unfortunately Jerry, yourself and myself are on the permanent IGNORE list at the Seattle FBI office. Any information we send has a special place (probably file 13). I haven't figured out if Jerry really had anything to do with Vickie's father being looked at, but you can bet Jerry was NOT going to pass up any chance he could be noted for turning Cooper in. He didn't do anything - Vicki is the one who did the work and did all the right things....not Jerry.
The FBI was already aware of Vickie's father prior to any contact that Jerry may have had.
The inflammatory post Jerry claimed I made regarding Himmelsbach - hasn't been found obviously. I have complained about the FBI and their in-ability to solve this case, but Himmelsbach retired in 1980 before the FBI had all of the information and research capabilities they do now. My grip about the FBI stems from 1996 and NOT before in regards to Weber.
There are many aspects the FBI dropped the ball on and after the crime, but no one can blame Himmelsbach for that. Number one the skyjacking happened in Portland, but was under the jurisdiction of WA because it occurred over WA air space.
Himmelsbach is NOT responsible for what happened in RENO when the the plane was searched - that was Nevada's problem.
The evidence is spread out in 3 states and that has been the major problem since GET GO. I am unaware if they have ever compiled ALL of the evidence in ONE state...and the reason I thing they didn't find the hotel receipt - it would be with the OR FBI office and NOT the Seattle office. WHY the witness went to the Portland office and WHY I called the Portland office before I left OR in Oct of 2010. Yet, now Portland defers all Cooper calls to the Seattle office.
The left hand does not know what the right hand is doing.
QuoteDid the witnesses ever weigh in on this? (With which hand did he hold cigarettes, lift drink, etc
This is a question I have asked over and over of the FBI and never got an answer. Duane was also left handed and of course I asked every agent the case has been assigned to for an answer to that question - but in 15 yrs I never got an answer - not one little peep until the TIE evidence was studied and that was the only thing that indicated Cooper was left handed if the tie even belonged to Cooper.
Surely this would be in the witness testimonies - if not - someone dropped that ball big time....as I have said in 15 yrs I got absolutely NO reply to this enquiry.
georger 244
QuoteJerry Thomas says in part:
Quote'I realy meant what I told Orange One about ignoring Jo's and Blevins post and pooling all our research abilitys together to work on finding info on Vicki's father. Maybe we can find somthing that will help solve this case.If nothing else we might even find other solid suspects instead of all these made up ones we've been dealing with here on this thread.'
Excuse me for living, Mr Jerry. Anytime you have any proof that Ken Christiansen was just a 'made up suspect' I'm sure you'll let me know.
I will be back later to repost my 25 Reasons We Think KC was the Hijacker stuff. You asked for it.
Oh, here we go. I found them.
25 Best Reasons We Believe Ken Christiansen Could Be D.B. Cooper
1) The House - Although his tax records show Kenny made an average of $6,000 a year or less prior to the hijacking, he paid $16,500 in cash for a house in Bonney Lake, Washington within eight months of the crime. He bought this house from Joe Grimes, who was a friend of the alleged accomplice. A year later he got the adjoining lot for an additional ten dollars.
2) The Loan - The sister of the alleged accomplice (Dawn J) admitted both to the authors and to the History Channel that she received a $5,000 cash loan from Kenny five months after the hijacking to put a down payment on her own house. By the time Christiansen bought his own house for cash a few months later, he had already spent more than three times his annual income within nine months of the crime - while his records show he had little or nothing in the bank.
3) The Lost Weekend - In October of 2010, Helen Jones of Sumner, Washington testified that both Kenny and Bernie were supposed to come to Thanksgiving dinner at her house in 1971 (weekend of the crime), along with Bernie's wife Margaret. But only Margaret showed up, and she was highly pissed at her missing husband. When Bernie returned a few days later, he said he'd been out camping, but wouldn't say who he was with. Helen Jones found out later that he was with Kenny Christiansen. When the History Channel interviewed Bernie, they asked him where he was that weekend. He refused to answer.
4) The Tie-Tac - Witness 'Dawn J,' the recipient of the five thousand dollar loan from Christiansen, identified a tie-tac from an FBI picture as one she had seen Christiansen wear sometimes. The picture shows the famous J.C. Penney clip-on tie and tie tac left behind on the plane by the hijacker. And she identified it before she was told that Kenny was being investigated, or before anything regarding D.B. Cooper or the hijacking was discussed. In addition, when the tie was found by the F.B.I. they noticed the tie tac had been slipped across the tie from the left side, indicating the wearer was probably left-handed. Christiansen was left-handed.
5) Chute Selection - Just before the hijacker jumped from the plane he made a choice. There was a newer sport chute available to him, and an older, military-type chute packed in an NB-6 ('Navy Backpack 6') container. He chose the NB-6, which points more to a man who hadn't jumped in a very long time, and who was probably ex-military.
6) The Picture - After Kenny's death, a strange picture was discovered in one of his old photo albums, hidden behind another picture. It shows Kenny walking in through the front door of his apartment in Sumner dressed similarly to the hijacker, and carrying a briefcase and a paper bag, the same type of items carried on board the flight by the hijacker. A time stamp on the front by the developer reads 'February 1972'. The wreath on the door indicates it was probably snapped around Christmas 1971 - or about three weeks after the crime. We believe it is a sort of staged mememto.
7) The Clippings Folder - One of the things the Christiansen family found after Kenny's death in 1994 was a folder full of newspaper clippings about Northwest Airlines. The first one is from his early days on Shemya Island. The last is an article from the summer of 1971, about five months before the hijacking. Although the Cooper hijacking was the biggest thing to ever happen to the airline, Kenny clipped nothing about it.
8) Dear Mom and Dad - Kenny's letters home to Minnesota were examined. Many contain the same theme. He was unhappy with the airline. He was broke all the time. He was out on strike again. He was digging ditches or picking apples to make ends meet. Literally.
9) Smoking Is Bad For You - The book itself was the subject of an episode on the History Channel show Brad Meltzer's Decoded. It was during the filming in Bonney Lake that Robert Blevins did two interviews with Helen Jones, a woman who had known Kenny very well. She said she remembered he smoked Raleigh cigarettes. 'I know because he saved the coupons...' Although Jones didn't realize it, this was the same brand of cigarettes smoked by the hijacker. The F.B.I. saved the butts from the ashtray he used.
10) Easy Money - A lot of people have asked how come the ransom money hasn't turned up except for the $5,800 found in 1980 on the banks of the Columbia River near Tena Bar. Easy answer: No one was actually looking for it. In a radio interview from 2008, Special Agent Larry Carr admitted that most banks found it overwhelming to compare their incoming twenties from the 34-page list of 10,000 non-sequential numbers. The majority of them abandoned this effort within three-to-six months after the hijacking. This means the money was more-or-less cold, and would be easy to launder after that time.
11) Don't Piss Off Your Ex - Part 1 - We alleged that Bernie was Christiansen's accomplice, and at the time of the crime he was married to Margaret Miller. Margaret is a veteran of the Iditarod and was the first woman to ever drive four draft horses abreast by herself. In five interviews between January and August of 2010, she consistently pointed to Bernie as an accomplice in the hijacking. However, she was very good friends with Ken Christiansen, and denied that he could have been involved. But after Robert Blevins presented her with a photo collage that contained famous pictures of the hijacking combined with pictures of Christiansen, she hung it in her kitchen.
12) 'Kenny Left Us HOW Much?' - When Kenny's estate was settled after his death, he had $186,276 in savings at the West One Bank in Sumner, Washington. He had an additional $24,501 in his checking account. His tax records from after the hijacking show that although he was making more money than before the hijacking, he never filed more than $20,000 a year on his tax returns. The authors don't think these funds were the actual ransom, but more from land investments using the money he extorted from the airline.
13) Don't Piss Off Your Ex - Part 2 - In her second interview up in Twisp, Washington, Margaret Miller pulled out a box of tugboat logs that came from a tug her ex-husband had worked on from about 1968 to 1975. The log from 1971 was missing. When Robert Blevins asked her where it was, she said her ex had broken into her home a few weeks after Kenny's death and stolen it, along with some photo books and personal papers. Coincidentally, the log could have shown that Bernie was not at work the weekend of the hijacking - and he drove nearly 400 miles each way to get it. Margaret Miller still has hasps and padlocks installed on some of the interior doors of the house, even today.
14) Are You Sure This Will Work? - How did the hijacker know that dropping the rear airstairs in flight would not change the flight characteristics and cause the jet to roll, invert, or crash? Because Boeing Aircraft tested this before the 727 was released. Bernie worked at Boeing during this time. Before that, he worked for Northwest Airlines, and later he went to Northwest again for a while. And at the time of the hijacking, he was working for Foss Tugs, but he may have offered Kenny a little advice on how a mid-flight escape could actually succeed.
15) Kenny Who? - Although Bernie gave extensive details on the relationship between he and Christiansen to the authors, he tried to change his story after History Channel contacted him. He told them he hardly knew Kenny and thought he was a dishwasher. Then he called up his sister 'Dawn J' and asked her to deny everything she had testified for the book. When the producers of Decoded presented photographs and other evidence to him, he admitted he was friends with Christiansen for more than thirty years and that Kenny had attended his wedding in 1968 to Margaret Miller. He was also interviewed for Decoded. He called Robert Blevins a liar, the book 'a work of fiction,' and refused to reveal his whereabouts over Thanksgiving 1971.
16) The Lifestyle Change - Before the hijacking, Kenny dressed neatly and conservatively. For the rest of his life after the crime, he mostly dressed in coveralls when he was off-duty at the airline. Most people in Bonney Lake thought he was a farmer.
17) The Silent One - For the next year after the hijacking, everyone at Northwest Airlines was abuzz about the taking of Flight 305. Everyone except Kenny, that is. Interviews done with his co-employees had a common theme: He never said a word about it, and stopped attending the union meetings as well.
18) It's For Camping, Dear - Shortly before the hijacking, Bernie purchased a station wagon from a car lot in Elma, Washington and an Airstream trailer at a bank repo sale. He only used it once, and that was when he and Kenny vanished on the Thanksgiving weekend of the hijacking. It sat on his property until a year later, when he lent it to Helen Jones' family to use after they had a house fire. When the Jones' house was repaired, he sold it to a buyer who took it to Arizona.
19) Just Doing His Job - When Margaret Miller finally saw the book and realized the extent of the evidence against Christiansen, she sent a strange letter to the office of Adventure Books of Seattle. In one paragraph, she claims that even if Kenny were aboard Flight 305 that day, he wasn't hijacking the plane. He was probably just doing his normal job as the purser. The AB staff had no clue what to make of her statement.
20) Coins and Stamps - One of the things Kenny had in his estate was a large collection of stamps and gold coins. It was valued at around $300,000 (1994 dollars) and left to his family in Minnesota. The authors discovered that most of it was ordered by mail over the years through a P.O. box he rented down in Sumner, although Kenny had moved to Bonney Lake shortly after the hijacking.
21) No, Margie...We're Not - At the end of her second interview in Twisp, Margaret Miller ran out to Robert Blevins' car as he was leaving. She stopped him and said: 'You're not going to make Kenny look bad, are you? No matter what he may have done, he was still a nice guy...' We didn't. We considered Christiansen a basically nice guy who had taken enough from the airline, and just decided to stick it to his employer.
22) An Airline Employee? Certainly not! - At the beginning of the Cooper investigation, the F.B.I. arbitrary decided it couldn't have been done by an airline employee, so they never tried looking to see if it could have been an inside job. Back in 1971, airline employees were viewed like the people who worked for Pan Am in the film Catch Me If You Can. It just never occurred to the Bureau that anyone from the airline could have been involved. Even Helen Jones said she was surprised Bernie and Kenny were never questioned. This scenario turned out to be a good thing for Christiansen.
23) The Role of the Accomplice - On the Decoded program, we demonstrated how Bernie and Kenny may have pulled off the crime. Bernie and Christiansen drove the Airstream and the wagon to Portland, where Kenny was dropped off at the airport. Then Bernie returned and camped right off the freeway at Paradise Point State Park near Battleground, Washington and waited for Kenny to hike out of the woods. Most of the estimated drop zones are less than twenty miles from the interstate, and there are scores of Forest Service roads, river trails, and paved roads leading back to the freeway. Coincidentally, the place where they found the money in 1980 was just a bit downriver from the park.
24) I Have An Alibi - During the first half of his interview with Robert Blevins, the alleged accomplice thought Blevins was only doing a general bio on Christiansen and not investigating the hijacking. When Blevins revealed the true nature of the book, Bernie claimed that when he worked for Foss Tugs he was gone 'ten or eleven months' out of the year. However, a senior executive at Foss said most employees were only out for a week or two at a time, and no more than two or three months for the ocean-going tugs. In that case, those employees then received substantial time off after they returned. Watson didn't work on the ocean tugs. We checked.
25) The Description - One of the big knocks on Kenny as a Cooper suspect has been the eyewitness descriptions. Although they varied a bit, most people thought he was five-ten to six feet, and weighed about 180. Kenny was five-eight and weighed about 170 pounds. Also, the hijacker had hair, while Kenny was very thin on top. But in her 2010 interview, witness 'Dawn J' testified that Kenny sometimes wore a toupee. Not on the job, she said. Just socially. She added she never saw him wear it again after the hijacking. A 1972 article from the Bremerton Sun said that the F.B.I. had reason to believe Cooper was bald, although they wouldn't say why. They fanned out around Bremerton questioning people and investigated a local wig and toupee shop. When no good leads surfaced, they abandoned the effort and moved on with the investigation. As far as the general descriptions of Cooper, there are a few things to consider. First, it might be tricky to tell someone's true height and weight unless you see them out in the open, not in the confines of a jet airliner. Second, we think Kenny looks a lot like the hijacker and that the witnesses were just a little off.
Even with all these things, which only cover a portion of the evidence, we cannot say with certainty that Ken Christiansen was D.B. Cooper. But when people ask us how much chance there is that he was the hijacker, we say we're about 85-95% sure of it.
Forget whether this is a statistically viable
evidence list or not . . .
Are you proud of it?
At least you have several people contributing
their biases to your list. Jo is the sole claimant
on her list. Duane was dead and never left any
tangible evidence - nada. Jo is solely responsible
for her list. Jo would have it no other way, so as
to retain control!
Aint myth making great!
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