DB Cooper

[377 22]

A 10 second freefall from a 727 by a jumper with an asymmetrical jumper aero profile (form the bag) is almost guaranteed to produce an out of control tumbling spin Bob. You can manage a little asymmetry at 120 mph but things get a lot dicier at 170. Without a heading and horizon refernce things can get out of control easily and it's nearly mpossible to restore stability.

Remember, you exit a jet at HIGHER than terminal velocity and slow down during the freefall which means the initial stability problems would be SEVERE. At night with no visual horizon even a very experinced jumper would have big trouble. It's an ideal setup for disrientation, panic and a no pull SPLAT.

Duane was in the Navy, right? And was kicked out after a short stint, right? So what kind of survival training did sailors get? It probably had more to do with abandon ship drills and life jackets than parachute landings and hostile terrain survival, dont you think?

Your lack of parachute expereince and knowledge causes you to take some positions about Duane's alleged Norjack jump that appear absurd to real jumpers, such as your insistance that he used the X chute, the one in the belly reserve container. Why do that when you have a perfectly good NB 6 (or NB 8) rig with a C9 canopy? That NB 6 was a bailout rig and well suited for the jump. How would he even fasten the reserve container? There were no D rings on the NB 6.

A ten second freefall is a bad idea too given the circumstances. If Cooper had to make injection molds or engineer car engine transplants I am sure you wouldnt be taking such untenable positions because you know a lot about those fields. If I were making up a story about injection molds you and your colleagues would be all over my mistakes in a second. Thats what's happening to you here when you post about jumping.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[JerryThomas 0]

377. I believe that cooper had one or two jumps if that. At any rate I don't think he was that experienced. So what we would have to do is find some one with little experence give them an uknown chute put a GPS on them and let them go for it. We will ask Amazon to be the Jump Master What the rest of us can do instead of making bets we can take out million dollar insurance policies on the jumper.That would make us all winners.Jerry PS as for the conditions he would have had to face. Just ask Geof Gray , Brian Ingram, Tom Kaye, Larry Carr The whole National Geo team that was on the river back in March of 2009 what conditions were like even in March None of them thought Cooper could have survived that jump.Every local that was interviewed believed he perished. and most of them thought he landed close to the west fork of the washougal river. Jerry

[377 22]

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McCoy already did it. Enough said.

McCoy and others. Snow posted quite a few.

None of them did it in Cooper's estimated exit zone during a winter storm though. Jerry says that area with rain at that time of year almost guarantees hypothermia.

McCoy was an experienced jumper. I've sen no evidence that Duane EVER made a jump.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Robert99 50]

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...

I do think if Cooper pulled right off the steps, even with a 25 lb money bag and the resulting aerodynamic assymetry, he ended up under a good chute. After that I am really out of my area of expertise.

377

His instructions were to count to "one-thousand-ten" (ten seconds) and pull. I'm sure he followed those instructions.

Duane had had survival training in the service. "Wasn't bad, but I didn't like eating that xxxxx stuff."

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"Here is an idea Jerry. Lets get Amazon to do it. I wonder how much we'd have to raise? Maybe a TV show would foot the bill as such a show properly spun would have some audience appeal: DID HE SURVIVE? The DB COOPER JUMP, re-enacted."

McCoy already did it. Enough said.

The History Channel (I think it was) had a program on the Cooper jump that involved a Hollywood stuntman by the name of Troy Hartman making jumps under various conditions.

The true airspeed at the time of Cooper's jump was about 195 knots which would be quite close to the ultimate speed capability of the parachute, if not beyond it.

In addition, the Boeing 727 people stated a number of decades ago that the aircraft had an unusually severe downwash. The downwash was considerably worse than their estimates and they didn't know why. So there was going to be some unusual turburlence for the first several seconds.

If the money bag was at the end of a tether, you would have an "earth-moon" type dynamic system. The only sensible thing would be for Cooper to tie the money bag tightly against his body and that would result in a much simpler dynamic system.

A couple of years ago, there was a TV series on the HALO military training program. In one of those programs, an experienced jumper was jumping with a belly pack for the first time. The guy had problems stabilizing and an instructor moved in close to try to help him. The instructor almost got kicked in the head. And that was on a sunny day in Arizona. The end result was that the student was booted out of the course.

Robert Nicholson

[377 22]

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377. I believe that cooper had one or two jumps if that. At any rate I don't think he was that experienced. So what we would have to do is find some one with little experence give them an uknown chute put a GPS on them and let them go for it. We will ask Amazon to be the Jump Master What the rest of us can do instead of making bets we can take out million dollar insurance policies on the jumper.That would make us all winners.Jerry

I've got the GPS and bio telemetry gear. We can get the jumper's position, course, speed, heart rate, blood oxygen level and temp right in the comfort of our warm homes in real time. It's jump proven and ready to go. Georger would like it. It's ham radio home brewed stuff mostly. 2 meter radios, hacked pulsox sensors, data modems, etc. Uses the APRS system for repeater relays and Internet uploading. Runs a long time on a small 12 volt battery if you keep the transmission rate down.

There is just no way to know what Cooper's jump experience was. Its all guessing. I've tried to figure it out from his gear choices, but it's just speculative.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[JerryThomas 0]

Vicki. Where did you take off too. Did you go shoping for a chute.Or are you practicing tuck and rolls off the back porch geting ready for your second jump.Jerry

[377 22]

I hope she didn't go bowling. It's Friday night and you know where Farflung is headed.

Leave our dropzone.com prom queen alone Farflung, unless she has other ideas.

Isn't it funny that "hook it" is used in both bowling and skydiving?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[EVickiW 0]

I am in the parking lot at the gym. Just bought some new work out clothes, because my others are starting to fall off. This is a good thing. Well in I go.............afterwards I have to bring my vehicle to a friends so he can change out the neutral safety switch.

Oh.......I am not a princess or prom queen!
lol

VW

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[JerryThomas 0]

Robert 99 it doesn't mater what you see on TV. Check out 377 Most resent Post to Bob Knoss Whats this thing called DB Cooper. It is telling it like it is.I don't think any one can explain it better.McCoy broke his ankle and landed in the desert. Not much survival chalenge there. Besides he was highly trained. Jerry PS. Robert I think I may have goten Part of your post confused with part of Bob Knoss.At any rate no disrespect intended.

[BobKnoss 0]

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Thats what's happening to you here when you post about jumping.

377

I think Duane was in the army, not the navy, but who really knows. At 200-80=120, not 170. Just going by Google information. Look it up.
That's fine. You can guess this and that all you want. I can tell you it was intended to be goofy, planned by a dyslexic. What was included in the training is exactly as I am telling you. You don't have to believe it. I just want it stated for the record. Cap can verify everything I say, but he probably won't. All of my notes include what he and Duane and Mac said word for word. It may have value to someone someday, nobody wants to hear it now. You all abuse poor Jo when she is trying to tell the truth, and she even gets some of it right. I really have a very poor opinion of the way the truth gets abused on here. I believe you all have an agenda, and it not a quest for anything close to truth. Bully pulpit and bullhorn. Quidaffi tactics. Beating up on poor sick old women and fat old cripples. Big tough guys with big guns and little... Brit Hume, Pasternek, Peter Jennings, Bill Crystal, Juan Williams, et. al., agreed that the story should not be reported. Maybe they are right. No big deal one way or the other. I just don't like the ridiculous lies like that stupid KC flounder. Jo's intentional omissions are just as bad. At least Nuttall has the background fairly close, he just needs to add the FAA cronological ocurances to the plot and accept Weber as the jumper. Nuttall is so bone headed stubborn I'm surprised he got as far as he did. Guess it was his partner's work anyway. He's gone. So is the progress that was being made.

[JerryThomas 0]

Bob Knoss. What makes you think Duane was in the military. Besides what diferent does it make He wasn't ever involved in the Cooper case at all he never was conected with it. The FBI has proven this.Jerry

[BobKnoss 0]

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Robert 99 it doesn't mater what you see on TV. Check out 377 Most resent Post to Bob Knoss Whats this thing called DB Cooper. It is telling it like it is.I don't think any one can explain it better.McCoy broke his ankle and landed in the desert. Not much survival chalenge there. Besides he was highly trained. Jerry

No. McCoy did not break his ankle. You guys are getting silly now.
It's beat-up on Bob time. Well, Bob doesn't care. Clown off as much as you want. It is amazing what knowing the real facts do to your self-respect and confidence. You see, I KNOW when you are wrong, and I don't care. Whatever makes your ego purr. You are saving your country from vicious fabrications of conspiracies, aliens, and honest FBI Agents. (Check that.)

[Robert99 50]

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Robert 99 it doesn't mater what you see on TV. Check out 377 Most resent Post to Bob Knoss Whats this thing called DB Cooper. It is telling it like it is.I don't think any one can explain it better.McCoy broke his ankle and landed in the desert. Not much survival chalenge there. Besides he was highly trained. Jerry PS. Robert I think I may have goten Part of your post confused with part of Bob Knoss.At any rate no disrespect intended.

Jerry, I'll agree with you that in some specific instances it doesn't make any difference what you see on TV if the talking head is just blowing smoke and running on ego. However, the instances I cited were hardly on an ego trip. That is, they didn't represent themselves as Cooper experts and just let the facts speak for themselves.

Robert Nicholson

[BobKnoss 0]

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Bob Knoss. What makes you think Duane was in the military. Besides what diferent does it make He wasn't ever involved in the Cooper case at all he never was conected with it. The FBI has proven this.Jerry

You are ALWAYS WRONG, Jerry. Everything you post is an untruth.
I understand your objective. It is a retarded approach with me. You are funny guy. I know where you get your marching orders, from Cap. You always have acted as his gopher, you are one in the same. I believe NOTHING you say, so no sense even posting. I have your number. If you say. "No!" The truth of the matter is probably, "Yes". It's the old dyslexia game again. You are just another Jamie Cooper TROLL. Only your claimed knowledge is less than Jamies. And I really believe that you might even know the truth, under all that flounder.

Duane said he had been in the service, that's how I know. He still had his combat boots and fatigues with the baggy pockets on the pants legs. Denny Nichols said he knew him from Bay of Pigs. Denny was a parachute jumper. Duane was not. Duane told Cap that he had had survival training. That is enough for me to believe Duane was in the Army.

[JerryThomas 0]

Robert 99 Your right.Hey what happened to Georger did he crash already or is he counting snowflakes .Its be snowing here off and on most of the week. Jerry

[JerryThomas 0]

Bob. You forget Cap had brain damage and believed any thing you told him. Hell he let you talk to him thats proof enough and the both of you considered casper the friendly ghost as your best friend. Hows that working out for you anyway? Jerry

[Robert99 50]

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Robert 99 Your right.Hey what happened to Georer did he crash already or is he counting snowflakes .Its be snowing here off and on most of the week. Jerry

Jerry, I don't know if Georger is counting snowflakes, but we are suppose to have snow here in southern Arizona, 12 miles from the Mexican border, tomorrow night and Sunday.

Robert Nicholson
Viva Baja Arizona, working on becoming the 51st state.

[JerryThomas 0]

Robert99. It was either 71 or 72 that they hada large snow storm in Tucson it was about the same time of year as I remember it. Jerry

[georger 244]

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Geoger. Off the record I received a sugar test machine today and I tested a 296 do you think that machine is missed up. All of you may be interested in this info. Today the US Mint released for sale the 2011 Medal of Honor Commemorative Coin.This is the first of its kind.The proof silver dollar is $54.95 The $5 proof gold coin is $454.95.There buitifull coins.Any way only 350 thousand of these coins are being minted. If you want one call the US Mint.Jerry

You know I cant give advice like this but take it
to a pharmacy and let them test the calibration -
if you got it at a named pharmacy take it there.

There should be notes on calibration in the
manual.

[georger 244]

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A 10 second freefall from a 727 by a jumper with an asymmetrical jumper aero profile (form the bag) is almost guaranteed to produce an out of control tumbling spin Bob. You can manage a little asymmetry at 120 mph but things get a lot dicier at 170. Without a heading and horizon refernce things can get out of control easily and it's nearly mpossible to restore stability.

Remember, you exit a jet at HIGHER than terminal velocity and slow down during the freefall which means the initial stability problems would be SEVERE. At night with no visual horizon even a very experinced jumper would have big trouble. It's an ideal setup for disrientation, panic and a no pull SPLAT.

Duane was in the Navy, right? And was kicked out after a short stint, right? So what kind of survival training did sailors get? It probably had more to do with abandon ship drills and life jackets than parachute landings and hostile terrain survival, dont you think?

Your lack of parachute expereince and knowledge causes you to take some positions about Duane's alleged Norjack jump that appear absurd to real jumpers, such as your insistance that he used the X chute, the one in the belly reserve container. Why do that when you have a perfectly good NB 6 (or NB 8) rig with a C9 canopy? That NB 6 was a bailout rig and well suited for the jump. How would he even fasten the reserve container? There were no D rings on the NB 6.

A ten second freefall is a bad idea too given the circumstances. If Cooper had to make injection molds or engineer car engine transplants I am sure you wouldnt be taking such untenable positions because you know a lot about those fields. If I were making up a story about injection molds you and your colleagues would be all over my mistakes in a second. Thats what's happening to you here when you post about jumping.

377

good post!

[EVickiW 0]

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did you see what credit cards they accept (last question)? Did you?

I did! If I had planned on using an American Express I would have been disappointed.

On a D.B. Cooper note, I was speaking with a lady at work today who was in the Navy in the early 50's. She remembers some of the veterans wearing parachutes and having minimal jump training when they were assigned to cargo loading.

Just a thought.

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[georger 244]

If the money bag was at the end of a tether, you would have an "earth-moon" type dynamic system. The only sensible thing would be for Cooper to tie the money bag tightly against his body and that would result in a much simpler dynamic system.

nice theoretical point worth considering ...
Guru or somebody brought this up very early
in the thread with a short discussion of the
possible consequences ... much depends on
the length of the tether (Moon-earth distance).
You cant automatically infer a spin or rotation
due to a 21lb mass in the context of other
forces acting on the pair (those forces would
be dominant) ... one scenario is he gets kocked
in the head or face or jaw ??? The pair are
decelerating ... much depeds on the length of
that tether.

[georger 244]

Georger would like it.

[georger 244]

No. McCoy did not break his ankle.

Correct, just sprained the hell out of it - had to
be wrapped by Cpt ________ so he could function
in his helo at his guard duty the next day. FBI
guys can write and take notes! FBI guys
can even walk w/o falling over! FBi guys are
house-trained!

[georger 244]

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Bob. You forget Cap had brain damage and believed any thing you told him. Hell he let you talk to him thats proof enough and the both of you considered casper the friendly ghost as your best friend. Hows that working out for you anyway? Jerry

Dumb me. WHO IS CAP? WHO IS MAC?

WHO IS BARFUNKLE? WHO IS THIS ASSHOLE
MO'MAR .... ?