DB Cooper

[EVickiW 0]

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Any ideas what this physical detail is?

377

The following video of Gossett is taken from a story on Coast to Coast. I wonder if the physical detail is related to the feature he has on his forehead.

http://mfile.akamai.com/5022/wmv/coast.download.akamai.com/5022/video/032908_db_cooper_suspect_1973.asx

Attached are two stills from the video.

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[hangdiver 1]

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Hangdiver, your actions best reflect the aviation axiom “There are old pilots, there are bold pilots, there are NO - OLD BOLD PILOTS.”

Well I did teach myself to Hangglide, hence my user name, and I actually succeeded...but not without numerous bent down tubes and a few bumps and bruises.

That's where the two brain cells came from that rubbed together a few years later with the chopper thing...

eta; My instructor...one of the most highly respected crop dusting pilots around the time...died some time later after a tail rotor failed on lift off...he died from burns...that says it all...

hangdiver

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[hangdiver 1]

You know...I propose we throw all the names on paper into a hat, throw it in the air and the first one to hit the ground be declared Cooper!

Of course with super-slow-motion-cameras and everything...we wouldn't want any disputes on who was declared Cooper...now would we...

That would be a great activity to entertain the crowd this year at Ariel...

hangdiver

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[skyjack71 0]

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And how many times do we have to tell you that the "schematics" don't contain the answer to the question of whether the 727 stairs can be deployed in flight.

Individuals who helped design the Boeing 727 and it predecessors knew! I thought John referred to them as schematics....perhaps he meant something else. They were designed to provide access at smaller airports - DO you really believe the designers didn't know the stairway could be imployed in flight? Do you really believe the designers were NOT aware the plane was unable to take off with the steps down because of damage to the underside? Duane had access, but not ALL of the information he needed...so he made do.
===================

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You hint that Duane bought his way out if prison by agreeing to be some kind of James Bond.

That part is speculation but Duane Weber knew high ranking official within these circuits. AZ and TX and CO is where they were trained...he had too many connections with these individuals. One the last surviors (who I have PERSONALLY met) is seriously ill and I hope his memoirs will reveal a lot of what went on. He has NEVER discussed his involvment with the underword and the government, but it is a know fact. I was with Duane on 2 assignments but was unaware at that time of what was going on. One in 1981 and another in 1982 or 1983. After that Duane had NO contact with these people that I am aware of.
=======================

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Put Duane in a chute or better yet on the plane with Tina, and you will have everybody's rapt attention

.

I am well aware this is what I have to do. Even the FBI made that same statement to me on more than one occasion. They had NO idea what I was holding and I had NO idea what it meant.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Orange1 0]

Quote

.

Quote

You hint that Duane bought his way out if prison by agreeing to be some kind of James Bond.

That part is speculation .

No, Jo. It's ALL speculation. Not just that part.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Farflung 0]

Here is a bit of video shot in the tail of a C-130. Now this is a very large aft stair (don’t be jealous 727) and was in use way before the 727 or DC-9. Was there fear of the plane inverting or going wildly out of control with that ramp hanging out there with some impressive girth (don’t feel inadequate 727)? Don’t think so as Paratroopers used this thing on a regular basis. So where did the data points about Boeing’s concern about lowering the aft stairs come from?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lp2nNXpiELg&feature=related

Does this video convey a sense of chaos or appear to have any attributes of a tempest? Looks pretty calm and relatively quiet to me. Gosh the way that wind is tearing and ripping through the fuselage it is a miracle that the fabric at the aft opening isn’t tearing itself apart. Come on Hollywood make something blow up real good for me.

What was it that hunter found near Toutle? Boarding pass…. SkyMall magazine… Northwest Orient flatware… ahhh, that’s right it was the aft stair emergency operation instruction placard. No doubt that was torn by the beastly windblast which whipped and spanked that 727’s supple, pouting, tail cone. That is the only solution damn it because I said so and you will agree with my manly man viewpoint or my frustration may materialize in the physical destruction of something.

Here are a couple perspectives of the 727’s cousin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4DM0xF7xTE&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE8_l1E1Bt0&NR=1

The following is a clip of the 727 in action during retraction.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjXB1Y9kISg&feature=related

What caused that placard to detach and jettison?

A. The violent windblast, that naughty, naughty windblast.

B. Cooper’s rig caught the placard and tore it free.

C. Cooper tore it off the wall in a fit of frustration after he failed to get the equipment to work.

D. Tina tore it off the wall and held it in Cooper’s face to mock the fact that he was incapable of operating such a simple and small device. Then she huffed and turned her back before telling all of her friends about what Dan couldn’t do last night.

E. Duane tore it off but planted it in the woods later.

F. The FAA’s mindless requirements for fire resistant polymers combined with several hundred pounds of tensile strength measured on a certified vibration table for a period of no less than 15 minutes nor more than two hours in a climate controlled environment capable of ambient temps of -15 C to 90 C with relative humidity of 85 percent with pressures variable from SL to plus 6 atmospheres repeated twice within a period not to exceed 24 hours excluding daylight savings or as practicable.

G. What was the question?

H. What does the placard from Cooper’s plane have to do with DB Cooper?

I. How is this remotely about (insert favorite suspect name here) who everyone knows is Cooper?

J. The FBI tore it off right after they left a Towncraft tie in the seat.

K. I don’t know, but this thread is too long and interferes with my fulfilling life and should be closed.

L. That bloody hook which was still attached to the handrail after the plane landed near Lover’s Lane.

M. It was a hunter that had walked down the stairs in Portland and it fell off while he was in the woods near Toutle but found it while walking back.

N. Probably some extremely complex process.

O. One of the flares being tossed out the tail dislodged the sign.

P. God.

Q. A parakeet.

R. Resonant sound frequencies from Engine 2 set at 93 percent power while in a nose high attitude.

S. Let’s stop kidding each other we all know damn well it was some ginger kid.

T. There never was a placard in the plane, that’s just what ‘they’ want you to think.

U. Could be something weird that caused it that no man is capable of understanding.

V. It may or may not have been a person or thing.

W. I have the answer but can’t say so I’ll just leave it at that.

X. I have the answer also and can’t say but the person who chooses ‘W’ is wrong.

Y. It was my understanding there would be no math in this quiz.

Z. The gubberment.

[Robert99 50]

Jo, As has been explained on this thread any number of times, on the night of the hijacking Boeing personnel had to search for anyone who could provide information about the possible deployment of the aft stairs in flight. This means that such information was not "common knowledge".

Why would the original commercial version of the 727 deploy the stairs in flight anyway? As 377 has also repeatedly pointed out, there is nothing in the aircraft handbooks related to even the accidental deployment of the stairs in flight. Consequently, the airlines and flight crews operating the 727 would not have any handbook information as to what they should do if the stairs deployed on their own.

Did Duane even know how to read the wiring diagrams for the original commerical 727s? Just exactly what did John "consult" with Boeing about? Did John ever even see the blueprints for the 727 and if so for what purpose?

Cooper did know that the 727 could take-off with the aft stairs unlocked and slightly down. He told Tina that despite agreeing to take-off with the stairs up to stop an argument with the crew and get the plane airborne.

Again, only about 5 727s routinely deployed the aft stairs in flight in southeast Asia and those aircraft had probably had some modifications to the stairs, the control panel for the stairs, and the motors that raised and lowered the stairs. After lowering the stairs had served its purpose, the next thing is to close and lock them in the up position so that the aircraft pressure bulkhead door can be closed and the aircraft pressurized again and then climb back to its normal operating altitude.

I doubt if either Duane or John had any knowledge of what unusual activities the southeast Asia 727s were involved in or had the potential to do.

Robert Nicholson

[BruceSmith 3]

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From Wikipedia

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Cook claims to have obtained from William Mitchell, a passenger on the hijacked aircraft, regarding a mysterious "physical detail" (which he will not divulge) common to the hijacker and Gossett.[114]

Any ideas what this physical detail is?

377

Not a clue.

[377 22]

Blevins writes:

Quote

It's also known that after the 727 cargo versions were released into service, that sometimes on Shemya Island the stairs were deliberately dropped on occasion to help slow the aircraft down on an emergency landing when the runway was too slick

That's sure news to me. Can't imagine it would help much given the availability of flaps and thrust reversers. Farflung, put on that old pilots helmet and chime in here. I'm neither a pilot or aero engineer, but this story doesn't make sense.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 247]

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Blevins writes:

Quote

It's also known that after the 727 cargo versions were released into service, that sometimes on Shemya Island the stairs were deliberately dropped on occasion to help slow the aircraft down on an emergency landing when the runway was too slick

That's sure news to me. Can't imagine it would help much given the availability of flaps and thrust reversers. Farflung, put on that old pilots helmet and chime in here. I'm neither a pilot or aero engineer, but this story doesn't make sense.

377

Sounds like Blevins knows his stuff and
the boys skated in a few times at Shemya ... rear
stairs lowered lowred to catch the trip wire, like on
carriers. That's Navy stuff ... which leads us back to
(where else but) .... DUANE!

Been following Blevins' rant. He makes a good case
for Geestman being Cooper - forget about Kenny.
All Kenny did was drive the van and tidy up while
his squeeze did the dirty work dropping 10,000
feet with a bag full of money. Kenny had nothing
to fret - he hadn't done nuttin. Kenny probably
taught Geestman how to put on the chute! And
Geestman even looks like Cooper. Don't they all?

[georger 247]

All you so-smart Cooper investigators are just finding out NOW that there is a website dedicated to people who served on Shemya? And that people actually post there? And that 99% of them identify themselves by their true names, the dates they served, and share their experiences?

It's been around for quite a few years now. We do our research around here. As far as Geestman being the actual hijacker, I think the stews would have noticed his nose. It's bigger than Karl Malden's. He looks nothing like the hijacker.

[georger 247]

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georger says in part:

Quote

'Sounds like youve had another 'bad day' on
the rock pile?'

That's funny. I've been able to take the whole week off and work on my new book. It's a heinous crime novel. I love gangsters.

Go to the homepage at AB and click on the music at the bottom of the page. (My fave is Grace Slick's rendition of Somebody To Love when she was with the band Great Society) Then minimize that, and reopen a new tab on the page shown below. Trust me. It's more fun that way.
I learn from Farflung, who I consider a friggin' genius.

http://www.adventurebooksofseattle.com/abnewsandupdates.htm

Don't go to the videos unless you shut off the music first, otherwise it gets REAL confusing. Your speakers won't know what to do with themselves.

be obtuse. I dont care.

[Farflung 0]

Now that we live in the Space Age any thoughts of the Jet Age seem long forgotten. One only has to marvel at the level this new and sophisticated technology has brought to the masses where Taxi fare can now exceed air fare. Fantastic and the customer base certainly reflect these achievements.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gjw585ZnJwI

Yes, nothing beats the warm embrace your fellow traveler radiates which makes each and every flight a new adventure bringing one group of trailer occupants together with another several time zones apart.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNEJrd6GkSY

Yeah riiiight,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYspsgIjb4U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Qo-nOVCwh4

The airlines are well aware of exactly what they are doing and why you tolerate it. Quality, comfort or safety, Bwahh, ha ha ha ha ha. Lemme clue ya into an ole design credo that may clarify some things – “Buyers are Liars”. They only care about price, hit ‘em with an amp of Thorazine and ‘Bat Hang’ them like sides of beef in the fuselage for less cash and your plane will runneth over.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXPwn_HaZm0

Recognize that Sky Cap from ‘Good Times’?

No matter, we have proven just what motivates us and it is laziness and greed. The Boeing 707 was put into service in 1958 and effectively killed any piston competition on speed, price and comfort. By the time the 727 was used many years later there was no reason to fly one into Shemya. That is assuming you are willing to discount the military presence and occupation long before the 727 launch.

Dropping the aft stairs as a speed brake for a narrow body jet on a 10,000 foot runway? Really? Gosh, it is almost like people on the internet don’t care about what they type, irrespective of showing their true identity. Just a little logic will give one all they need to rest easy at night.

Do I think the people who claim that the aft stairs on 727s were deployed as drag devices are full of it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyi-niNoGiE

[smokin99 0]

From this website....

Quote

http://pnwbands.com/silverfox.html

Long before Kenny Rogers started calling himself the silver fox, my friend, Mike Jaap of Tacoma had a band called Silver Fox. They were excellent, but were not too well accepted at the time (1970-72) because their music was too sophisticated for most rock audiences. They were actually kind of prog-rock and jazz-rock fusion. If I remember right they did all original material (something practically illegal back then) and it was very good! They were working with unusual time signatures and progressive harmonies.
The only two names I remember are leader/keyboardist Mike Jaap and guitarist Rick Delarno. They played mostly around the Tacoma area. I saw them in the Lincoln Bowl once. They played the gig wearing tuxedos with tails.

Bob Phillips, June 2007



Point of contention (not that it has any bearing on anything at all, esp DB - I just like classic rock and classic country trivia )...... Don't know if Kenny Rogers ever called himself that or not, but it was Charlie Rich that was more commonly nicknamed the Silver Fox. He's the one who took out his lighter on stage at the Academy of country music awards and burned the envelope before announcing John Denver won country music's entertainer of the year. They say it was a protest of pop entering the country music genre......but he was probably just drunk

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[smokin99 0]

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Do I think the people who claim that the aft stairs on 727s were deployed as drag devices are full of it?

lol@Faflung as I jump up and down in seat at back of room and frantically wave hand shouting "I know the answer....I know the answer".

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[Farflung 0]

smokin99,

I too have an affinity for distinct musical genres like….. “Swamp Rock”.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkdcUa-pQlg&NR=1

Lawd have mercy, mmmph!!, mmmph!! Now that’s ‘merican elocution fer ya.

How can anyone understand those lyrics?

Yeah, how, how, how? Yeah, how, how, how?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vppbdf-qtGU

Guess this should be filed under “Unintelligible Lyrics Rock”.

Just as soon be called full of wind I guess…..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASxaSpGJmic&feature=related

[smokin99 0]

Ahhh...Tony Joe, ZZ, and L.S.

Now there's a bill that would surely draw a sellout crowd...... even on a rainy night in Georgia.
Yep...in my neck of the woods they are considered to be......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZyp3i1zwSI

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[Farflung 0]

On a completely related note to the Cooper thread, Arnold Schwarzenegger has become entwined in some sort of sex scandal. Presumably because the FBI was withholding information about Duane from what I can gather.

If only Californians has elected Meg Whitman there would have never been any association of the Governor’s Office with any type of sex or even the most oblique thought of the act.

Although both of them have been linked to screwing their maids, kinda weird and freaky. Oh well;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZbKHDPPrrc

[377 22]

"Lawd have mercy, mmmph!!, mmmph!! Now that’s ‘merican elocution fer ya. "

I've actually picked and eaten Polk Salad Farflung. Out in Louisiana, way back in Cajun country, Lawd have mercy. My mother was not working on the chain gang however.

Ever eat Nutria? Gator? Crawfish from the open drainage ditches along the dirt roads? It's not organic, thats for sure, but with some rice, beans and beer it all works out OK.

Flaps 20, stairs 15, gear down and locked, spoilers and thrust reversers armed, pre landing checklist complete. I have the Shemya outer marker on ADF 1 Skipper.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[smokin99 0]

Quote

I've actually picked and eaten Polk Salad Farflung. Out in Louisiana, way back in Cajun country, Lawd have mercy. My mother was not working on the chain gang however.

And lived to tell about it With turnip and collard greens you just have to worry about the grit......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pokeweed

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[Farflung 0]

I can safely attest to having consumed many crawfish and several forms of gator during my time stationed in Mississippi. Really enjoyed myself there and how vastly different of a region it was in the 70’s. I recall people making references to ‘Three Two Beer’ and did not have the stones to ask what in the world they were talking about. The booze laws were feast or famine in Ole Miss since there were (are?) dry counties and counties where the drinking age was…… 18. Seems so strange now that the nation has federalized the sale of alcohol through highway funds, just the way I like it; free of irony.

Even got all dangerous one time and went to some old timer’s house to buy some genuine ‘White Lightning’. It came in a Kerr Jar with a well used and dented lid for the popular price of one foldin’ dollar. Just the act of opening the container took away my breath, caused my eyes to water and my liver to go into contractions. I have never since, nor do I hope I ever will, feel such an intense and immediate burning of my stomach lining while experiencing the loss of peripheral vision, motor skills and several ounces of urine, most of which was mine. God I was cool.

After my dalliance with 195 proof liquid death, I learned to appreciate 3.2 percent beer and asked for it by name.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa2Tl5BeK-U

Son of a gun, gonna have big fun on the bayou…….

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

WoW! and just think of the tons and tons of "Poke salit" I ate when I was young.

I guess the rough and ready boys in Northwest Jaw-Ja were just too stupid to understand what dyspnea, perspiration, spasms, severe purging, prostration, tremors, watery diarrhea and vomiting (sometimes bloody) and, sometimes, convulsions, weakness, excessive yawning, slowed breathing, fast heartbeat, dizziness, possibly seizures, and coma are. However, I'm pretty sure none of us died (from eating it, at least I didn't). We just thought of it as FREE calories.

Par-boil it (twice)... Fry some fatback in an iron skillet... take out the fatback but leave the grease... put the greens in the skillit with a little water... when it cooks down break in a few eggs (hen, duck, guinea, etc), stir and chow down.

Of course we didn't know anything about tort-law either. If we did get sick, we didn't have anyone to sue.

PS: We rode in the back of pick-up trucks (standing) also.

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[377 22]

Good to see you Sluggo!

Throw us a bone, what's going on in the case?

Anything new?

I never knew Polk Salad was so damned toxic. The old boys just told me how to repeatedly boil and rinse the young leaves to "get the bitterness out". Lucklily I followed their advice.

The Collings B 17 and B 24 WW2 bombers are in our area today and will be hauling jumpers for $450 a head. I jumped the B 24 years ago when it was "only" $350.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Farflung 0]

Now I understand how the Cooper composite matches so many other suspects as ‘exact’, ‘spitting images’ and ‘nearly identical’. For the same has been said about Arnold’s kid from the maid he did. Most people must be delusional, easily persuaded or the lesser PC answer of - simply stoopid to arrive at these conclusions.

But one thing is for sure, the Kennedy machinery is turning and Arnold better think fast or avoid all bridges, air travel and ski slope trees for the rest of his presumably short life.

He needs to launch a devastatingly brilliant offense as his best defense while preemptively quashing any further actions from the enemy compound. Yes, that’s right; I’m referring to rolling out the ‘Skakel Tree Fertilization Explanation’ again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIY8CoMILgU

So Arnold is minding his own business, on his private property in America and happens to be standing on the branch of one of his trees in order to better survey all that he owns. While reflecting on his humble origins and how far he has come an involuntary response churns within his loins…….

….. sometime later the maid on one of her many generously provided breaks takes her comprehensive, universal medical coverage booklet generously provided by her employer even though it was not required and sat beneath that tree for a little light reading. Here is where evolution completes an inevitable and intelligently designed course. Arnold being the Alpha Male of all other Alpha Males produces the most potent of pheromones which attract the abundantly fertile maid to select that precise location upon which to review her employers generosity. The equally potent ‘genetic material’ simply completed the path it was destined to take from eons of evolution which will eventually produce a master race. It’s all about the science and logic, just like all the Cooper theories.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Jo, As has been explained on this thread any number of times, on the night of the hijacking Boeing personnel had to search for anyone who could provide information about the possible deployment of the aft stairs in flight. This means that such information was not "common knowledge".

Why would the original commercial version of the 727 deploy the stairs in flight anyway? As 377 has also repeatedly pointed out, there is nothing in the aircraft handbooks related to even the accidental deployment of the stairs in flight. Consequently, the airlines and flight crews operating the 727 would not have any handbook information as to what they should do if the stairs deployed on their own.

Did Duane even know how to read the wiring diagrams for the original commerical 727s? Just exactly what did John "consult" with Boeing about? Did John ever even see the blueprints for the 727 and if so for what purpose?

Cooper did know that the 727 could take-off with the aft stairs unlocked and slightly down. He told Tina that despite agreeing to take-off with the stairs up to stop an argument with the crew and get the plane airborne.

Again, only about 5 727s routinely deployed the aft stairs in flight in southeast Asia and those aircraft had probably had some modifications to the stairs, the control panel for the stairs, and the motors that raised and lowered the stairs. After lowering the stairs had served its purpose, the next thing is to close and lock them in the up position so that the aircraft pressure bulkhead door can be closed and the aircraft pressurized again and then climb back to its normal operating altitude.

I doubt if either Duane or John had any knowledge of what unusual activities the southeast Asia 727s were involved in or had the potential to do.

Robert Nicholson

IF the FBI had even talked to JOHN they would KNOW those answers. John was a consultant for Boeing with the ARMY FOR 6 YRS- DOES this explain the above to you? I have stated this time and time again and the FBI was told this.

I have had surgery - and this is ALL I feel like saying. I have said it before - NOW the FBI needs to check their background on John and his ARMY records are something the FBI should have already checked.

John Weber did NOT lie to me - I have his letter, but do NOT remember exactly how he said it onthe phone. John and Duane were NOT strangers to the Boeing 727 and it's predecessors.
They both knew the capabilities and the possiblilities of the crraft and others like it - before and after.

Another member of Duane's extended family was Vietman and was a jumper and was a really bad ass. Did the FBI ever check him out? OF course, NOT.
Even Duane himself told he didn't like this man - because he was DANGEROUS.

The FBI didn't do SHIT!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber