sailshaw 0 #23001 May 21, 2011 Jo In your own words "Number one - I believe the media or witness or Cook over stated what was observed on that night in 1971. Now that I know the "exact" location from which Janet sighted the plane and dotting that siting along with the other sitings that night - I believe she actually did see the plane." Thanks for supporting the Janet story in that it places Cooper close to the Portland airport. What do you mean "dotting that sitting". Do you have the address of Janet's house in Vancouver that she saw the plane from? She no longer lives there, but what would be interesting is exactly where her house was and how close to the flight path? Many thanks, Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Farflung 0 #23002 May 22, 2011 As a citizen researcher I was able to discover some more information about that Hughes Airwest hijacking on 20 Jan 1972 where a DC-9 was commandeered with a successful jump with resolution to the crime. This no doubt will be of substantial aid to any research in regards to hijacking. I have also selflessly included my theory about Flight 800 and the mystery crew which must be known to the same ad nauseam detail of Flight 305 in a comprehensive graphic. You’re welcome. Now we just need a detailed description of the stewardesses who were onboard McCoy’s and McNally’s flight. I know I’m not going to rest until they are revealed. Does anyone have any information on these crew members? I can’t do this all by myself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BruceSmith 3 #23003 May 22, 2011 QuoteThe finding of the DB money on Tina's Bar was also with held by Himmelsbach and Seattle FBI agent Carr first heard of it from the news media. Not true. A press conference was held almost immediately. Himmelsbach notified the media and invited them in with the Ingrams. Seattle was notified instantly. The media was all over the site at Tina Bar including in the air over the excavation. Where did you get the idea H witheld info ? Quote The following comes from Galen, who says he got it recently from a retired FBI agent. Also, Al Fazio didn't know about the money find until he was drving back from a cattle auction and found his road blocked. That tells me that the Portland FBI office either reacted with rapid response and-or kept their plans very quiet. Here's Galen's perspective: The Seattle FO was not apprised of the 1980 Columbia River find by the Portland FO. The NORJAK case handler up in Seattle learned about it in the Seattle Times the next day. No courtesy call by Himmelsbach to the NORJAK case agent in Seattle. Hurt feelings, yes, but mostly pissed off. Seems Mr. Himmelsbach was trying to get the attention directed only to him. This is part of the reason why NORJAK is rather messed up. The evidence is scattered around at various FO's and there was lots of animosity among agents in 1970's and 1980's as to who was really in charge of NORJAK. Himmelsbach had some enemies in the FBI and has some explaining to do to the public as to why the DB Cooper letter to the Portland Oregonian newspaper was never published. Bruce, I got this info from a retired agent. Beat goes on, Buddy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 50 #23004 May 22, 2011 QuoteQuoteThe finding of the DB money on Tina's Bar was also with held by Himmelsbach and Seattle FBI agent Carr first heard of it from the news media. Not true. A press conference was held almost immediately. Himmelsbach notified the media and invited them in with the Ingrams. Seattle was notified instantly. The media was all over the site at Tina Bar including in the air over the excavation. Where did you get the idea H witheld info ? Quote The following comes from Galen, who says he got it recently from a retired FBI agent. Also, Al Fazio didn't know about the money find until he was drving back from a cattle auction and found his road blocked. That tells me that the Portland FBI office either reacted with rapid response and-or kept their plans very quiet. Here's Galen's perspective: The Seattle FO was not apprised of the 1980 Columbia River find by the Portland FO. The NORJAK case handler up in Seattle learned about it in the Seattle Times the next day. No courtesy call by Himmelsbach to the NORJAK case agent in Seattle. Hurt feelings, yes, but mostly pissed off. Seems Mr. Himmelsbach was trying to get the attention directed only to him. This is part of the reason why NORJAK is rather messed up. The evidence is scattered around at various FO's and there was lots of animosity among agents in 1970's and 1980's as to who was really in charge of NORJAK. Himmelsbach had some enemies in the FBI and has some explaining to do to the public as to why the DB Cooper letter to the Portland Oregonian newspaper was never published. Bruce, I got this info from a retired agent. Beat goes on, Buddy. I'm almost certain that I heard about the money find on the national television news on the evening that H. first saw one of the bills. And I lived in the Eastern time zone at that time. I think it was a Tuesday that H. first met with the Ingrams after they had found the money on a Sunday evening and then contacted the FBI after talking the matter over with friends and family on Monday. Perhaps H. didn't call the Seattle office on Monday after the first phone call from the Ingrams, but by mid-day Tuesday the Portland FBI people were digging up Tina Bar with the media all over the place. Robert Nicholson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #23005 May 22, 2011 QuoteJo - In your own words "Number one - I believe the media or witness or Cook over stated what was observed on that night in 1971. Now that I know the "exact" location from which Janet sighted the plane and dotting that siting along with the other sitings that night - I believe she actually did see the plane." Thanks for supporting the Janet story in that it places Cooper close to the Portland airport. What do you mean "dotting that sitting". Do you have the address of Janet's house in Vancouver that she saw the plane from? She no longer lives there, but what would be interesting is exactly where her house was and how close to the flight path? Many thanks, Bob This is exactly the kind of MISS information perpetuated by the media and individuals such as yourself. She did NOT LIVE in Line with the PDX. She lived a good ways East of the Airport near Cames. We have NO way of knowing which direction she viewed the plane from - was it E or W of her home or was it directly over-head. If there was any truth to her story from the description provided by the media - the plane WAS NOT over head. My Dotting sitings comes from 14 yrs of research and spending lots of money talking to people who DID not talk to the FBI and some who did - so you go do YOUR own research! You fly across the country and spend days in hotels and pay for a car rental. Then you will KNOW why this information is NOT for free. You spend the next 15 yrs of your life trying to prove the truth and have someone ask a stupid question like that and see how outraged you become. You are on this thread tooting a suspect you knew for all of 30 days and this is an individual who is still alive. You are a coward - get on a plane and go see the man and sit in front of him with your accusations. Be Sure You Have Witnesses! He doesn't live too far from you (if you live in WA) - a days drive. Put your money and your time where your mouth is.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #23006 May 22, 2011 Blevins, do you realize how stupid you sounded several post back? Your comment about lowering the stairway to slow down the plane - just exactly who do you use as a source for this information? You do realize if the theory had any grounds of probability - it would be something used only as a last resort and probably not then. This is not the kind of landings pilots contemplate or used to slow the plane during landing. That's why 727's were built with thrust reversers, wing spoilers, and extendable flaps and slats. The potential problem is one NO pilot would want to contend with. Stability is one problem and then the fact that the aft stairs would not fully retract at a 120 knot landing, and possibly bounce back, destabilizing the 727. Note: There was damage to the 727 upon landing in Reno. Yes, I had a little help with this post, but these kind of things certainly do NOT help your cause. By the way How are the book sales? No lies - tell the truth!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 247 #23007 May 22, 2011 I'm almost certain that I heard about the money find on the national television news on the evening that H. first saw one of the bills. And I lived in the Eastern time zone at that time. I think it was a Tuesday that H. first met with the Ingrams after they had found the money on a Sunday evening and then contacted the FBI after talking the matter over with friends and family on Monday. Perhaps H. didn't call the Seattle office on Monday after the first phone call from the Ingrams, but by mid-day Tuesday the Portland FBI people were digging up Tina Bar with the media all over the place. Robert Nicholson Harold Ingram called on Monday and gave serial numbers which were run through Washington, who in turn notified . . . Ingram called back on Monday and an appointment was set - the rest is history. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Orange1 0 #23008 May 22, 2011 Quote Blevins, do you realize how stupid you sounded several post back? ! Pots... Kettles...Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Farflung 0 #23009 May 22, 2011 Martin Joseph McNally hijacked a 727 in St Louis with a sub machine gun for $502,500. The unusual amount of the ransom was to cover his expenses while perpetrating the crime. Apparently the accomplice could not see any reason to give a portion from his half of the ransom for overhead. They display a superb business sense and appreciation for non-value adding activities by eliminating all waste while keeping their process nimble. Unfortunately he lost his gun, the money and his ……… pants during the jump. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyEE0qpfeig Too bad he wasn’t wearing parachute pants which would come back into vogue in less than 20 years anyway. Before he was able to take off from St Louis, someone added a page to the book of ‘Hold My Beer and Watch This’. Yes, apparently a salesman named Hanley was enjoying some libations at the local tavern and upon hearing the news of the hijacking at the adjacent Lambert Field, began to morph into the ‘Eldorado Avenger!’ He crashed the gates of the airport in his Caddy Eldo and smacked the landing gear of the 727 at full ramming speed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNOnO_aBJ8g&feature=related This forced McNally to change planes where he was finally able to jump and survive the landing with a few scratches and twigs in his hair. Although he had just lost everything he was able to acquire some transportation via the use of diabolical cunning. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIwnAs4iwaE Well as luck would have it, he got a ride. As irony requires, it was from the County Sheriff who checked out the bruised and battered, pant less man but released him at the local motel since he didn’t match the description of the hijacker given by the airline (insert uncomfortably long and incredulous pause here). So much for small town law enforcement. Anyway, McNally checks into the Peru Motor Lodge where the night clerk notices his scratched face, arms and twig laced hair to ask “So are you the hijacker everyone’s looking for?” McNally explained his brother beat him up and threw him out of the house. He was given a room where he called for a ride back to the suburbs of Detroit, MI. So much for small town motel night clerks. The Sheriff was shown a photo of McNally a few days later and confessed he had picked up the man that night and gave him a lift to the motel. The FBI knocked on McNally’s door that afternoon. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBeT4ptY9sY Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #23010 May 22, 2011 I would love to have some of the articles that existed on Weber and for them to be in the same kind of formats you post the articles you find. The St. Pete Articles where blurry and hard to read. I know there were other articles regarding the arrests of Weber over the yrs - but do NOT know how to find them. The most important ones are in the Spokane, WA area and the Coure d'alene, ID area. I have been told about a man who used what we think was an AKA Weber used...but since the FBI just will not check this out - I have to wait until I can travel and DO IT MYSELF. Just like I did in OR and WA. If I had been well and have had the money - I would NOT have left without PROOF in hand. I was told that there was a picture someplace showing Duane in the Spillway Tavern. He was under the bar along with another young man in a Navy Uniform messing around. These pictures where made about 1947 and involved a musician who lived in the area and made his 1st live radio Broadcast from KODL. We believe the name Dusty was used and he could still have been using the name of a family friend from CA. Funny the FBI never investigated any of this. I guess they did NOT need to do this....perhaps they have information they never ever revealed to me regarding the time span this all occured in. Seems like a frivilous waste of Govt Dollars and a waste of my life NOT to reveal this information to the widow if they had information indicating Weber could not and was NOT in the area during that time. Too much covered up not to believe the FBI has been Hiding something for many yrs. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #23011 May 22, 2011 Jo state this in regards to the information provided by Blevins regarding the aft way being used as a means to slow the plane down: Quote Blevins, do you realize how stupid you sounded several post back? Then Ms Orange comes back with this retort: Quote Pots... Kettles...! Lye Soap is the resulting product of the above and often used to wash out the mouth of sassy young folks - back in the days. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sailshaw 0 #23012 May 22, 2011 Jo: You probably don't have the address of Janet or you would not have made such a fuss about disclosing where she lived. Galen Cook does know and I will ask him next time we talk on the phone and will post it here on the DropZone where we can use the synergy of the group to make progress on the case. I would like to address your comment "You are on this thread tooting a suspect you knew for all of 30 days and this is an individual who is still alive. You are a coward - get on a plane and go see the man and sit in front of him with your accusations. Be Sure You Have Witnesses! He doesn't live too far from you (if you live in WA) - a days drive. Put your money and your time where your mouth is." Do you want me to go face to face with Sheridan, possibly put handcuffs on him and throw him in prison? That is the job of the FBI, ours is to share thoughts and make progress on the case. Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #23013 May 23, 2011 I have to ask you about something I just learned today - infact a few moments ago. Really need to talk. You know how to reach me and you know I do NOT have caller ID. I do NOT want or NEED to address this in the thread. What I am going to do is throw some questions at you...about what I learned today. I am hurting bad tonight and cannot stay on the computer very long...need to go lie down. What do you know about these places and these things and have you ever heard anything in connection to any leads regarding these things? A man seen walking below Swift Dam in a sharp curve. He was wearing a Maroon Turtle Neck and a jacket with slacks. He was carrying a xxxxxx like the one I have described and one which met the description one of the witnesses gave to me in a private conversation and like the one I disposed of after Duane's death (which I described to Himmelsbach). I have known about this witness for yrs (since 2000) when all the articles ran in the WA newspapers. The call came out of the blue from someone else who knew how to contact me. I did NOT understand which direction he was walking in and the exact location of the siting. I am unable at this time to dig out old maps and do NOT believe Sluggo gave me any maps that cover this area. On the little map I have of the area that was easily accessible to me are a couple of things I am aware of, but I would only be aware of these if Duane mentioned them. The Logging Bridge was near there - one(which you claimed did not exist) which Amazon was quick to inform you did exist. Duane talked about a Gaging Station and a Signal Tower. But this was on our way back toward Battleground. When I had mentioned Tum Tum Mt before you ha ha'ed me, We were NOT up that far but Duane told me about it. Even Amazon mentioned the rail spurs by the forestry that did at one time exist in the area. I know we did NOT go much further North than the old mill which is where they kept the pump cars at that time. I did NOT see the mill, but he told me about it - we stopped at what I would call a camping area or park before we headed back. I have told these thngs over and over and over, but until I went to WA in Oct of 2010 I had never taken into account - time and space. I remember the places he showed me and the things he told me - but time causes the memory to condense things. The trip to WA in 2010 was an eye-opener. I realized my memory had NOT account for time and space between the places he showed me. Now for the second piece of information: FOR your Information and to ALL. I happen chance to meet a man from the WA and OR area who has been there ALL of his life as was his father. They are all in the same occupation and one which means he knew exactly what he was talking about. This man had a logo on the front of his T-shirt and I asked him where he was from and what the letters meant (I have NO idea why I started the conversation with this man about the T-shirt logo). He told me what the logo meant and the kind of work he did. Without telling him who I was and asked him some question about the area - I asked about the things I described to Jerry Thomas and Ralph Himmelsbach over and over and over. He KNEW each and every place and told he about them - the very places JT claimed DID not exist even after I went to WA and found the places myself. The area I kept telling everyone about for yrs - the hill or mt where Duane took me and pointed out how all the power lines and pipelines converged near there....the tributary near there. This man told me exact where it was and what is was called. I told this man I had reasons to ask these questions of him because I had been told they did NOT exist, but had found them in Oct. of 2010. If Jerry is the authority on the area he claims to be - WHY didn't he know where the places where? I finally disclosed to this man who I was and who JT was. He was hooked then and told me almost anyone could and would have told me where and what these places where. Because of his occupation he knew where and what everyone of them were and in detail. I described them and he told me where they were and each one was on target with what I found in Oct of 2010. I had describe the place before I identified myself and then after I identified myself we talk some more about these places. We both were amazed that I started the convesation with a question about his T-shirt logo - which by the way said NOTHING about WA or OR. Just 3 letters. I exchanged information with him and hopefully in the near future I will be able to physically make that trip again - but, another trip is NOT in my budget which is very thin now since my Oct 2010 trip. Could this be the unusual thing about the forehead of Cooper that Mitchell mentioned. This picture was taken around 1988, but it does show the slant of the forehead. Also NOTE after 1980 he STOPPED wearing sideburns. Put Sideburns on the photos you have of Weber and add the fullness to the hair - and you see an entirely different man. Note - he is leaning over a desk leaning down from a standing position in this photo to sign something. When I spoke with Mitchell yrs and yrs ago - he said NOTHING to me about anything unusual about Cooper's forehead. When I contacted Mitchell all of those yrs ago - I did NOT have the photo's available I have today - just what the media had in the U.S. News and World Reports.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sailshaw 0 #23014 May 23, 2011 Blevins: Your statement "Are you kidding? No way is Galen Cook going to give up the address of his fantasy witness. She would sue him, and quick." must be taken with a grain of salt. Janet no longer lives at the same house and would not sue Cook (a lawyer) anyway. Your ravings about Cook lead me to believe you are afraid he is way ahead of you and will out publish you. Your way of competing with Cook is not worth talking about and adds nothing to the groups search for DB Cooper.. As they say "Shape Up" or . . . . . Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Orange1 0 #23015 May 23, 2011 QuoteQuote Blevins, do you realize how stupid you sounded several post back? Then Ms Orange comes back with this retort: QuotePots... Kettles...! .... Lye Soap is the resulting product of the above and often used to wash out the mouth of sassy young folks - back in the days. The only rude/nasty terms above is a direct quote from you. Does being a senior give you more license to be rude? Because that's sure the way you're trying to make it sound. Personally, I thought calling someone stupid would be against the forum rules on PAs, but yet again Teflon Jo sails on. It's amazing, actually. Modus operandi: be as nasty as you want, then pull something out to make people feel sympathetic with you. Jo is clearly a past master at manipulating men!!!! Incidentally, Jo, you never answered: with all these people doing all this work for you and discovering all sorts of stuff, how is it one of them never managed to do something as simple as download the transcripts for you?Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 247 #23016 May 23, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote Blevins, do you realize how stupid you sounded several post back? Then Ms Orange comes back with this retort: QuotePots... Kettles...! .... Lye Soap is the resulting product of the above and often used to wash out the mouth of sassy young folks - back in the days. The only rude/nasty terms above is a direct quote from you. Does being a senior give you more license to be rude? Because that's sure the way you're trying to make it sound. Personally, I thought calling someone stupid would be against the forum rules on PAs, but yet again Teflon Jo sails on. It's amazing, actually. Modus operandi: be as nasty as you want, then pull something out to make people feel sympathetic with you. Jo is clearly a past master at manipulating men!!!! Incidentally, Jo, you never answered: with all these people doing all this work for you and discovering all sorts of stuff, how is it one of them never managed to do something as simple as download the transcripts for you? agree 100%. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #23017 May 23, 2011 Quote Blevins: Your statement "Are you kidding? No way is Galen Cook going to give up the address of his fantasy witness. She would sue him, and quick." must be taken with a grain of salt. Janet no longer lives at the same house and would not sue Cook (a lawyer) anyway. Your ravings about Cook lead me to believe you are afraid he is way ahead of you and will out publish you. Your way of competing with Cook is not worth talking about and adds nothing to the groups search for DB Cooper.. As they say "Shape Up" or . . . . . Bob WELL Bob The very first time you and I have agreed on SOMETHING! Surprise surprise! It has alway been my opinion that Cook was a diligent Cooper researcher. Even Attorneys can get suckered into a story when they want to finalize a life time of research. I personally know how many times I have been "suckered" into a story regarding the past of Weber only to find there was NO basis for it. Unfortunately this is pitfall of the HUNT. Such as the story about the man in the Maroon Turtle Neck. I had heard about this siting yrs ago, but kept it to myself until I received the phone call that I based the previous post on. Now I have put that story out there - because I WANT to know if it is true or was it just a man whose car had broke down. The man was walking in the opposite direction the man was driving...but the man did NOT note a vehicle along the side of the road. Did this man make this up or did it really happen and how much of his story has been tainted by what he may have read in the media? Why do I come forward with this story at this time? Because I discounted the story and the location of the siting - per the information available about the plane route and it did not seem to be within the "story" I have told about my trip in 1979 with Weber. My trip to WA and OR in Oct of 2010 proved to me I had been DELIBERATELY mis-led about the places I had described from my memory of the 1979 "Sentimental Journey". Wish I had been financially able to have made that trip yrs ago, but I played with the cards I had been dealt. I am a lousy card player - never was and never will be good at games.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #23018 May 23, 2011 Quote Blevins, do you realize how stupid you sounded several post back? Jo's answer to Orange's accusations: Well, take that as an insult if you wish, but his idea or what he had been led to believe was desperate and uninformed regarding the aft stairs as means to slow down the plane. I have been called much worse over the yrs in this thread...such as liar or storyteller or delusional and I believe you just called me a manipulator. You will note that Blevins himself did not complain. Orange Stated: The only rude/nasty terms above is a direct quote from you. Does being a senior give you more license to be rude? Personally, I thought calling someone stupid would be against the forum rules on PAs, but yet again Teflon Jo sails on. It's amazing, actually. Modus operandi: be as nasty as you want, then pull something out to make people feel sympathetic with you. Jo is clearly a past master at manipulating men!!!!" Jo's Reply: Could not your statement above be considered rude - why is it only YOU, Orange who seems to be insulted by my statements? Orange's statement: Incidentally, Jo, you never answered: with all these people doing all this work for you and discovering all sorts of stuff, how is it one of them never managed to do something as simple as download the transcripts for you? Jo's Reply: Because I was under the opinion I had what was available to the public until a recent post made by Georger indicated to me I must not have all of the trasnscripts. Orange, I truely hope when you reach 70 plus that you are able to retain as much information as I have retained..in my head. I make copies of things and filed them away, but it became massive and was kept chronologically (large enough I had to find a locker for it). The people who have help me through out the yrs are multiple and you will someday be very surprised at who some of these people are. Some are journalist or individuals with specific capabilities in certain area. Many came from the thread or others reading the thread. My guys as I call them did interviews with others (never mentioning me), they made trips to check things out and to talk to people, they tried without me being there to retrace the 1979 trip. One has physically walked some of the area I talked about early on. Another did research that was NOT available to the general public....the list goes on and on and there will be no way I can ever thank all of the people who came to my aid. To ALL: If my personality in the chase for Weber's past offends anyone I apologize....this is NOT how I wanted to spend what should have been the best yrs of my life! It is what I had to do and I do not always feel like being sugar and spice everyone. NOTE: It has never been my intentions to manipulate anyone. I simply meant the statement was stupid and not that Blevins was stupid. Read back and see how many times I have been called names - and not just being told the statement I made was stupid or not reasonable.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #23019 May 23, 2011 Below is the post that seems to have alienated so many of you and opened the GATES of Hell and damnation upon me. Please re-read the post below and tell me how I am treating Blevin any differently than I have been treated when I made statements that made NO logical sense. I have re-read the post several time and do NOT feel it was offensive. The Post that Opened the Gates of Hell upon me: "Blevins, do you realize how stupid you sounded several post back? Your comment about lowering the stairway to slow down the plane - just exactly who do you use as a source for this information? You do realize if the theory had any grounds of probability - it would be something used only as a last resort and probably not then. This is not the kind of landings pilots contemplate or used to slow the plane during landing. That's why 727's were built with thrust reversers, wing spoilers, and extendable flaps and slats. The potential problem is one NO pilot would want to contend with. Stability is one problem and then the fact that the aft stairs would not fully retract at a 120 knot landing, and possibly bounce back, destabilizing the 727. Note: There was damage to the 727 upon landing in Reno. Yes, I had a little help with this post, but these kind of things certainly do NOT help your cause. By the way How are the book sales? No lies - tell the truth!"Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Orange1 0 #23020 May 23, 2011 Quote Because I was under the opinion I had what was available to the public until a recent post made by Georger indicated to me I must not have all of the trasnscripts. Orange, I truely hope when you reach 70 plus that you are able to retain as much information as I have retained..in my head. We discussed the transcripts before and you made it obvious back then you did not have them all... I clearly remember people looking up stuff for you in the transcripts that you did not have.... so no I do not think it is only recent....Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Orange1 0 #23021 May 23, 2011 Because I feel I have to prove my point: Quote skyjack71 Jan 26, 2009, 2:08 AM Re: [snowmman] another intrepretation: early jump? [In reply to] Quote | Reply -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Question: In reading the recent posts I have a serious question. Remember way back after the transcripts came out in the forum. There was a mention of Cooper going to the bathroom (I am curious as to why the crew didn't do something at that time). Also WHAT the HELL did he do with the BOMB when he went to the bathroom? Until this forum I had heard no mention of Cooper going to the bathroom - is that really in the transcripts or is it Myth? If you had to ask if it was really in the transcripts... clearly you didn't have them, or the full ones. And note you already mention here that the transcripts came out "way back", and this was over 2 years ago. Not recent and clearly not full knowledge. Edit: in case anyone is wondering, yes it was in the transcripts. (I was the one who looked it up for Jo and answered her post above...)Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 247 #23022 May 24, 2011 Well, the stairs were open about thirty to thirty-six inches under the air-stream after Cooper opened the door—that’s just the natural point where they will fall – the gap between the bottom of the stairs and the closure point in flight. ' He must be one of the 'only five guys on the planet knew' ... North of Vancouver is not the Washougal. He doesn't mention the Washougal. How did he know he was North of Vancouver? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 50 #23004 May 22, 2011 QuoteQuoteThe finding of the DB money on Tina's Bar was also with held by Himmelsbach and Seattle FBI agent Carr first heard of it from the news media. Not true. A press conference was held almost immediately. Himmelsbach notified the media and invited them in with the Ingrams. Seattle was notified instantly. The media was all over the site at Tina Bar including in the air over the excavation. Where did you get the idea H witheld info ? Quote The following comes from Galen, who says he got it recently from a retired FBI agent. Also, Al Fazio didn't know about the money find until he was drving back from a cattle auction and found his road blocked. That tells me that the Portland FBI office either reacted with rapid response and-or kept their plans very quiet. Here's Galen's perspective: The Seattle FO was not apprised of the 1980 Columbia River find by the Portland FO. The NORJAK case handler up in Seattle learned about it in the Seattle Times the next day. No courtesy call by Himmelsbach to the NORJAK case agent in Seattle. Hurt feelings, yes, but mostly pissed off. Seems Mr. Himmelsbach was trying to get the attention directed only to him. This is part of the reason why NORJAK is rather messed up. The evidence is scattered around at various FO's and there was lots of animosity among agents in 1970's and 1980's as to who was really in charge of NORJAK. Himmelsbach had some enemies in the FBI and has some explaining to do to the public as to why the DB Cooper letter to the Portland Oregonian newspaper was never published. Bruce, I got this info from a retired agent. Beat goes on, Buddy. I'm almost certain that I heard about the money find on the national television news on the evening that H. first saw one of the bills. And I lived in the Eastern time zone at that time. I think it was a Tuesday that H. first met with the Ingrams after they had found the money on a Sunday evening and then contacted the FBI after talking the matter over with friends and family on Monday. Perhaps H. didn't call the Seattle office on Monday after the first phone call from the Ingrams, but by mid-day Tuesday the Portland FBI people were digging up Tina Bar with the media all over the place. Robert Nicholson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #23005 May 22, 2011 QuoteJo - In your own words "Number one - I believe the media or witness or Cook over stated what was observed on that night in 1971. Now that I know the "exact" location from which Janet sighted the plane and dotting that siting along with the other sitings that night - I believe she actually did see the plane." Thanks for supporting the Janet story in that it places Cooper close to the Portland airport. What do you mean "dotting that sitting". Do you have the address of Janet's house in Vancouver that she saw the plane from? She no longer lives there, but what would be interesting is exactly where her house was and how close to the flight path? Many thanks, Bob This is exactly the kind of MISS information perpetuated by the media and individuals such as yourself. She did NOT LIVE in Line with the PDX. She lived a good ways East of the Airport near Cames. We have NO way of knowing which direction she viewed the plane from - was it E or W of her home or was it directly over-head. If there was any truth to her story from the description provided by the media - the plane WAS NOT over head. My Dotting sitings comes from 14 yrs of research and spending lots of money talking to people who DID not talk to the FBI and some who did - so you go do YOUR own research! You fly across the country and spend days in hotels and pay for a car rental. Then you will KNOW why this information is NOT for free. You spend the next 15 yrs of your life trying to prove the truth and have someone ask a stupid question like that and see how outraged you become. You are on this thread tooting a suspect you knew for all of 30 days and this is an individual who is still alive. You are a coward - get on a plane and go see the man and sit in front of him with your accusations. Be Sure You Have Witnesses! He doesn't live too far from you (if you live in WA) - a days drive. Put your money and your time where your mouth is.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #23006 May 22, 2011 Blevins, do you realize how stupid you sounded several post back? Your comment about lowering the stairway to slow down the plane - just exactly who do you use as a source for this information? You do realize if the theory had any grounds of probability - it would be something used only as a last resort and probably not then. This is not the kind of landings pilots contemplate or used to slow the plane during landing. That's why 727's were built with thrust reversers, wing spoilers, and extendable flaps and slats. The potential problem is one NO pilot would want to contend with. Stability is one problem and then the fact that the aft stairs would not fully retract at a 120 knot landing, and possibly bounce back, destabilizing the 727. Note: There was damage to the 727 upon landing in Reno. Yes, I had a little help with this post, but these kind of things certainly do NOT help your cause. By the way How are the book sales? No lies - tell the truth!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 247 #23007 May 22, 2011 I'm almost certain that I heard about the money find on the national television news on the evening that H. first saw one of the bills. And I lived in the Eastern time zone at that time. I think it was a Tuesday that H. first met with the Ingrams after they had found the money on a Sunday evening and then contacted the FBI after talking the matter over with friends and family on Monday. Perhaps H. didn't call the Seattle office on Monday after the first phone call from the Ingrams, but by mid-day Tuesday the Portland FBI people were digging up Tina Bar with the media all over the place. Robert Nicholson Harold Ingram called on Monday and gave serial numbers which were run through Washington, who in turn notified . . . Ingram called back on Monday and an appointment was set - the rest is history. 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skyjack71 0 #23005 May 22, 2011 QuoteJo - In your own words "Number one - I believe the media or witness or Cook over stated what was observed on that night in 1971. Now that I know the "exact" location from which Janet sighted the plane and dotting that siting along with the other sitings that night - I believe she actually did see the plane." Thanks for supporting the Janet story in that it places Cooper close to the Portland airport. What do you mean "dotting that sitting". Do you have the address of Janet's house in Vancouver that she saw the plane from? She no longer lives there, but what would be interesting is exactly where her house was and how close to the flight path? Many thanks, Bob This is exactly the kind of MISS information perpetuated by the media and individuals such as yourself. She did NOT LIVE in Line with the PDX. She lived a good ways East of the Airport near Cames. We have NO way of knowing which direction she viewed the plane from - was it E or W of her home or was it directly over-head. If there was any truth to her story from the description provided by the media - the plane WAS NOT over head. My Dotting sitings comes from 14 yrs of research and spending lots of money talking to people who DID not talk to the FBI and some who did - so you go do YOUR own research! You fly across the country and spend days in hotels and pay for a car rental. Then you will KNOW why this information is NOT for free. You spend the next 15 yrs of your life trying to prove the truth and have someone ask a stupid question like that and see how outraged you become. You are on this thread tooting a suspect you knew for all of 30 days and this is an individual who is still alive. You are a coward - get on a plane and go see the man and sit in front of him with your accusations. Be Sure You Have Witnesses! He doesn't live too far from you (if you live in WA) - a days drive. Put your money and your time where your mouth is.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #23006 May 22, 2011 Blevins, do you realize how stupid you sounded several post back? Your comment about lowering the stairway to slow down the plane - just exactly who do you use as a source for this information? You do realize if the theory had any grounds of probability - it would be something used only as a last resort and probably not then. This is not the kind of landings pilots contemplate or used to slow the plane during landing. That's why 727's were built with thrust reversers, wing spoilers, and extendable flaps and slats. The potential problem is one NO pilot would want to contend with. Stability is one problem and then the fact that the aft stairs would not fully retract at a 120 knot landing, and possibly bounce back, destabilizing the 727. Note: There was damage to the 727 upon landing in Reno. Yes, I had a little help with this post, but these kind of things certainly do NOT help your cause. By the way How are the book sales? No lies - tell the truth!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 247 #23007 May 22, 2011 I'm almost certain that I heard about the money find on the national television news on the evening that H. first saw one of the bills. And I lived in the Eastern time zone at that time. I think it was a Tuesday that H. first met with the Ingrams after they had found the money on a Sunday evening and then contacted the FBI after talking the matter over with friends and family on Monday. Perhaps H. didn't call the Seattle office on Monday after the first phone call from the Ingrams, but by mid-day Tuesday the Portland FBI people were digging up Tina Bar with the media all over the place. Robert Nicholson Harold Ingram called on Monday and gave serial numbers which were run through Washington, who in turn notified . . . Ingram called back on Monday and an appointment was set - the rest is history. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Orange1 0 #23008 May 22, 2011 Quote Blevins, do you realize how stupid you sounded several post back? ! Pots... Kettles...Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Farflung 0 #23009 May 22, 2011 Martin Joseph McNally hijacked a 727 in St Louis with a sub machine gun for $502,500. The unusual amount of the ransom was to cover his expenses while perpetrating the crime. Apparently the accomplice could not see any reason to give a portion from his half of the ransom for overhead. They display a superb business sense and appreciation for non-value adding activities by eliminating all waste while keeping their process nimble. Unfortunately he lost his gun, the money and his ……… pants during the jump. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyEE0qpfeig Too bad he wasn’t wearing parachute pants which would come back into vogue in less than 20 years anyway. Before he was able to take off from St Louis, someone added a page to the book of ‘Hold My Beer and Watch This’. Yes, apparently a salesman named Hanley was enjoying some libations at the local tavern and upon hearing the news of the hijacking at the adjacent Lambert Field, began to morph into the ‘Eldorado Avenger!’ He crashed the gates of the airport in his Caddy Eldo and smacked the landing gear of the 727 at full ramming speed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNOnO_aBJ8g&feature=related This forced McNally to change planes where he was finally able to jump and survive the landing with a few scratches and twigs in his hair. Although he had just lost everything he was able to acquire some transportation via the use of diabolical cunning. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIwnAs4iwaE Well as luck would have it, he got a ride. As irony requires, it was from the County Sheriff who checked out the bruised and battered, pant less man but released him at the local motel since he didn’t match the description of the hijacker given by the airline (insert uncomfortably long and incredulous pause here). So much for small town law enforcement. Anyway, McNally checks into the Peru Motor Lodge where the night clerk notices his scratched face, arms and twig laced hair to ask “So are you the hijacker everyone’s looking for?” McNally explained his brother beat him up and threw him out of the house. He was given a room where he called for a ride back to the suburbs of Detroit, MI. So much for small town motel night clerks. The Sheriff was shown a photo of McNally a few days later and confessed he had picked up the man that night and gave him a lift to the motel. The FBI knocked on McNally’s door that afternoon. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBeT4ptY9sY Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #23010 May 22, 2011 I would love to have some of the articles that existed on Weber and for them to be in the same kind of formats you post the articles you find. The St. Pete Articles where blurry and hard to read. I know there were other articles regarding the arrests of Weber over the yrs - but do NOT know how to find them. The most important ones are in the Spokane, WA area and the Coure d'alene, ID area. I have been told about a man who used what we think was an AKA Weber used...but since the FBI just will not check this out - I have to wait until I can travel and DO IT MYSELF. Just like I did in OR and WA. If I had been well and have had the money - I would NOT have left without PROOF in hand. I was told that there was a picture someplace showing Duane in the Spillway Tavern. He was under the bar along with another young man in a Navy Uniform messing around. These pictures where made about 1947 and involved a musician who lived in the area and made his 1st live radio Broadcast from KODL. We believe the name Dusty was used and he could still have been using the name of a family friend from CA. Funny the FBI never investigated any of this. I guess they did NOT need to do this....perhaps they have information they never ever revealed to me regarding the time span this all occured in. Seems like a frivilous waste of Govt Dollars and a waste of my life NOT to reveal this information to the widow if they had information indicating Weber could not and was NOT in the area during that time. Too much covered up not to believe the FBI has been Hiding something for many yrs. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #23011 May 22, 2011 Jo state this in regards to the information provided by Blevins regarding the aft way being used as a means to slow the plane down: Quote Blevins, do you realize how stupid you sounded several post back? Then Ms Orange comes back with this retort: Quote Pots... Kettles...! Lye Soap is the resulting product of the above and often used to wash out the mouth of sassy young folks - back in the days. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sailshaw 0 #23012 May 22, 2011 Jo: You probably don't have the address of Janet or you would not have made such a fuss about disclosing where she lived. Galen Cook does know and I will ask him next time we talk on the phone and will post it here on the DropZone where we can use the synergy of the group to make progress on the case. I would like to address your comment "You are on this thread tooting a suspect you knew for all of 30 days and this is an individual who is still alive. You are a coward - get on a plane and go see the man and sit in front of him with your accusations. Be Sure You Have Witnesses! He doesn't live too far from you (if you live in WA) - a days drive. Put your money and your time where your mouth is." Do you want me to go face to face with Sheridan, possibly put handcuffs on him and throw him in prison? That is the job of the FBI, ours is to share thoughts and make progress on the case. Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #23013 May 23, 2011 I have to ask you about something I just learned today - infact a few moments ago. Really need to talk. You know how to reach me and you know I do NOT have caller ID. I do NOT want or NEED to address this in the thread. What I am going to do is throw some questions at you...about what I learned today. I am hurting bad tonight and cannot stay on the computer very long...need to go lie down. What do you know about these places and these things and have you ever heard anything in connection to any leads regarding these things? A man seen walking below Swift Dam in a sharp curve. He was wearing a Maroon Turtle Neck and a jacket with slacks. He was carrying a xxxxxx like the one I have described and one which met the description one of the witnesses gave to me in a private conversation and like the one I disposed of after Duane's death (which I described to Himmelsbach). I have known about this witness for yrs (since 2000) when all the articles ran in the WA newspapers. The call came out of the blue from someone else who knew how to contact me. I did NOT understand which direction he was walking in and the exact location of the siting. I am unable at this time to dig out old maps and do NOT believe Sluggo gave me any maps that cover this area. On the little map I have of the area that was easily accessible to me are a couple of things I am aware of, but I would only be aware of these if Duane mentioned them. The Logging Bridge was near there - one(which you claimed did not exist) which Amazon was quick to inform you did exist. Duane talked about a Gaging Station and a Signal Tower. But this was on our way back toward Battleground. When I had mentioned Tum Tum Mt before you ha ha'ed me, We were NOT up that far but Duane told me about it. Even Amazon mentioned the rail spurs by the forestry that did at one time exist in the area. I know we did NOT go much further North than the old mill which is where they kept the pump cars at that time. I did NOT see the mill, but he told me about it - we stopped at what I would call a camping area or park before we headed back. I have told these thngs over and over and over, but until I went to WA in Oct of 2010 I had never taken into account - time and space. I remember the places he showed me and the things he told me - but time causes the memory to condense things. The trip to WA in 2010 was an eye-opener. I realized my memory had NOT account for time and space between the places he showed me. Now for the second piece of information: FOR your Information and to ALL. I happen chance to meet a man from the WA and OR area who has been there ALL of his life as was his father. They are all in the same occupation and one which means he knew exactly what he was talking about. This man had a logo on the front of his T-shirt and I asked him where he was from and what the letters meant (I have NO idea why I started the conversation with this man about the T-shirt logo). He told me what the logo meant and the kind of work he did. Without telling him who I was and asked him some question about the area - I asked about the things I described to Jerry Thomas and Ralph Himmelsbach over and over and over. He KNEW each and every place and told he about them - the very places JT claimed DID not exist even after I went to WA and found the places myself. The area I kept telling everyone about for yrs - the hill or mt where Duane took me and pointed out how all the power lines and pipelines converged near there....the tributary near there. This man told me exact where it was and what is was called. I told this man I had reasons to ask these questions of him because I had been told they did NOT exist, but had found them in Oct. of 2010. If Jerry is the authority on the area he claims to be - WHY didn't he know where the places where? I finally disclosed to this man who I was and who JT was. He was hooked then and told me almost anyone could and would have told me where and what these places where. Because of his occupation he knew where and what everyone of them were and in detail. I described them and he told me where they were and each one was on target with what I found in Oct of 2010. I had describe the place before I identified myself and then after I identified myself we talk some more about these places. We both were amazed that I started the convesation with a question about his T-shirt logo - which by the way said NOTHING about WA or OR. Just 3 letters. I exchanged information with him and hopefully in the near future I will be able to physically make that trip again - but, another trip is NOT in my budget which is very thin now since my Oct 2010 trip. Could this be the unusual thing about the forehead of Cooper that Mitchell mentioned. This picture was taken around 1988, but it does show the slant of the forehead. Also NOTE after 1980 he STOPPED wearing sideburns. Put Sideburns on the photos you have of Weber and add the fullness to the hair - and you see an entirely different man. Note - he is leaning over a desk leaning down from a standing position in this photo to sign something. When I spoke with Mitchell yrs and yrs ago - he said NOTHING to me about anything unusual about Cooper's forehead. When I contacted Mitchell all of those yrs ago - I did NOT have the photo's available I have today - just what the media had in the U.S. News and World Reports.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sailshaw 0 #23014 May 23, 2011 Blevins: Your statement "Are you kidding? No way is Galen Cook going to give up the address of his fantasy witness. She would sue him, and quick." must be taken with a grain of salt. Janet no longer lives at the same house and would not sue Cook (a lawyer) anyway. Your ravings about Cook lead me to believe you are afraid he is way ahead of you and will out publish you. Your way of competing with Cook is not worth talking about and adds nothing to the groups search for DB Cooper.. As they say "Shape Up" or . . . . . Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Orange1 0 #23015 May 23, 2011 QuoteQuote Blevins, do you realize how stupid you sounded several post back? Then Ms Orange comes back with this retort: QuotePots... Kettles...! .... Lye Soap is the resulting product of the above and often used to wash out the mouth of sassy young folks - back in the days. The only rude/nasty terms above is a direct quote from you. Does being a senior give you more license to be rude? Because that's sure the way you're trying to make it sound. Personally, I thought calling someone stupid would be against the forum rules on PAs, but yet again Teflon Jo sails on. It's amazing, actually. Modus operandi: be as nasty as you want, then pull something out to make people feel sympathetic with you. Jo is clearly a past master at manipulating men!!!! Incidentally, Jo, you never answered: with all these people doing all this work for you and discovering all sorts of stuff, how is it one of them never managed to do something as simple as download the transcripts for you?Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 247 #23016 May 23, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote Blevins, do you realize how stupid you sounded several post back? Then Ms Orange comes back with this retort: QuotePots... Kettles...! .... Lye Soap is the resulting product of the above and often used to wash out the mouth of sassy young folks - back in the days. The only rude/nasty terms above is a direct quote from you. Does being a senior give you more license to be rude? Because that's sure the way you're trying to make it sound. Personally, I thought calling someone stupid would be against the forum rules on PAs, but yet again Teflon Jo sails on. It's amazing, actually. Modus operandi: be as nasty as you want, then pull something out to make people feel sympathetic with you. Jo is clearly a past master at manipulating men!!!! Incidentally, Jo, you never answered: with all these people doing all this work for you and discovering all sorts of stuff, how is it one of them never managed to do something as simple as download the transcripts for you? agree 100%. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #23017 May 23, 2011 Quote Blevins: Your statement "Are you kidding? No way is Galen Cook going to give up the address of his fantasy witness. She would sue him, and quick." must be taken with a grain of salt. Janet no longer lives at the same house and would not sue Cook (a lawyer) anyway. Your ravings about Cook lead me to believe you are afraid he is way ahead of you and will out publish you. Your way of competing with Cook is not worth talking about and adds nothing to the groups search for DB Cooper.. As they say "Shape Up" or . . . . . Bob WELL Bob The very first time you and I have agreed on SOMETHING! Surprise surprise! It has alway been my opinion that Cook was a diligent Cooper researcher. Even Attorneys can get suckered into a story when they want to finalize a life time of research. I personally know how many times I have been "suckered" into a story regarding the past of Weber only to find there was NO basis for it. Unfortunately this is pitfall of the HUNT. Such as the story about the man in the Maroon Turtle Neck. I had heard about this siting yrs ago, but kept it to myself until I received the phone call that I based the previous post on. Now I have put that story out there - because I WANT to know if it is true or was it just a man whose car had broke down. The man was walking in the opposite direction the man was driving...but the man did NOT note a vehicle along the side of the road. Did this man make this up or did it really happen and how much of his story has been tainted by what he may have read in the media? Why do I come forward with this story at this time? Because I discounted the story and the location of the siting - per the information available about the plane route and it did not seem to be within the "story" I have told about my trip in 1979 with Weber. My trip to WA and OR in Oct of 2010 proved to me I had been DELIBERATELY mis-led about the places I had described from my memory of the 1979 "Sentimental Journey". Wish I had been financially able to have made that trip yrs ago, but I played with the cards I had been dealt. I am a lousy card player - never was and never will be good at games.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #23018 May 23, 2011 Quote Blevins, do you realize how stupid you sounded several post back? Jo's answer to Orange's accusations: Well, take that as an insult if you wish, but his idea or what he had been led to believe was desperate and uninformed regarding the aft stairs as means to slow down the plane. I have been called much worse over the yrs in this thread...such as liar or storyteller or delusional and I believe you just called me a manipulator. You will note that Blevins himself did not complain. Orange Stated: The only rude/nasty terms above is a direct quote from you. Does being a senior give you more license to be rude? Personally, I thought calling someone stupid would be against the forum rules on PAs, but yet again Teflon Jo sails on. It's amazing, actually. Modus operandi: be as nasty as you want, then pull something out to make people feel sympathetic with you. Jo is clearly a past master at manipulating men!!!!" Jo's Reply: Could not your statement above be considered rude - why is it only YOU, Orange who seems to be insulted by my statements? Orange's statement: Incidentally, Jo, you never answered: with all these people doing all this work for you and discovering all sorts of stuff, how is it one of them never managed to do something as simple as download the transcripts for you? Jo's Reply: Because I was under the opinion I had what was available to the public until a recent post made by Georger indicated to me I must not have all of the trasnscripts. Orange, I truely hope when you reach 70 plus that you are able to retain as much information as I have retained..in my head. I make copies of things and filed them away, but it became massive and was kept chronologically (large enough I had to find a locker for it). The people who have help me through out the yrs are multiple and you will someday be very surprised at who some of these people are. Some are journalist or individuals with specific capabilities in certain area. Many came from the thread or others reading the thread. My guys as I call them did interviews with others (never mentioning me), they made trips to check things out and to talk to people, they tried without me being there to retrace the 1979 trip. One has physically walked some of the area I talked about early on. Another did research that was NOT available to the general public....the list goes on and on and there will be no way I can ever thank all of the people who came to my aid. To ALL: If my personality in the chase for Weber's past offends anyone I apologize....this is NOT how I wanted to spend what should have been the best yrs of my life! It is what I had to do and I do not always feel like being sugar and spice everyone. NOTE: It has never been my intentions to manipulate anyone. I simply meant the statement was stupid and not that Blevins was stupid. Read back and see how many times I have been called names - and not just being told the statement I made was stupid or not reasonable.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #23019 May 23, 2011 Below is the post that seems to have alienated so many of you and opened the GATES of Hell and damnation upon me. Please re-read the post below and tell me how I am treating Blevin any differently than I have been treated when I made statements that made NO logical sense. I have re-read the post several time and do NOT feel it was offensive. The Post that Opened the Gates of Hell upon me: "Blevins, do you realize how stupid you sounded several post back? Your comment about lowering the stairway to slow down the plane - just exactly who do you use as a source for this information? You do realize if the theory had any grounds of probability - it would be something used only as a last resort and probably not then. This is not the kind of landings pilots contemplate or used to slow the plane during landing. That's why 727's were built with thrust reversers, wing spoilers, and extendable flaps and slats. The potential problem is one NO pilot would want to contend with. Stability is one problem and then the fact that the aft stairs would not fully retract at a 120 knot landing, and possibly bounce back, destabilizing the 727. Note: There was damage to the 727 upon landing in Reno. Yes, I had a little help with this post, but these kind of things certainly do NOT help your cause. By the way How are the book sales? No lies - tell the truth!"Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Orange1 0 #23020 May 23, 2011 Quote Because I was under the opinion I had what was available to the public until a recent post made by Georger indicated to me I must not have all of the trasnscripts. Orange, I truely hope when you reach 70 plus that you are able to retain as much information as I have retained..in my head. We discussed the transcripts before and you made it obvious back then you did not have them all... I clearly remember people looking up stuff for you in the transcripts that you did not have.... so no I do not think it is only recent....Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Orange1 0 #23021 May 23, 2011 Because I feel I have to prove my point: Quote skyjack71 Jan 26, 2009, 2:08 AM Re: [snowmman] another intrepretation: early jump? [In reply to] Quote | Reply -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Question: In reading the recent posts I have a serious question. Remember way back after the transcripts came out in the forum. There was a mention of Cooper going to the bathroom (I am curious as to why the crew didn't do something at that time). Also WHAT the HELL did he do with the BOMB when he went to the bathroom? Until this forum I had heard no mention of Cooper going to the bathroom - is that really in the transcripts or is it Myth? If you had to ask if it was really in the transcripts... clearly you didn't have them, or the full ones. And note you already mention here that the transcripts came out "way back", and this was over 2 years ago. Not recent and clearly not full knowledge. Edit: in case anyone is wondering, yes it was in the transcripts. (I was the one who looked it up for Jo and answered her post above...)Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 247 #23022 May 24, 2011 Well, the stairs were open about thirty to thirty-six inches under the air-stream after Cooper opened the door—that’s just the natural point where they will fall – the gap between the bottom of the stairs and the closure point in flight. ' He must be one of the 'only five guys on the planet knew' ... North of Vancouver is not the Washougal. He doesn't mention the Washougal. How did he know he was North of Vancouver? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 247 #23023 May 24, 2011 QuoteQuote'He must be one of the 'only five guys on the planet knew' ... North of Vancouver is not the Washougal. He doesn't mention the Washougal. How did he know he was North of Vancouver?' Because he was the co-pilot. Because he knew where they were at the time the stairs rebounded and the indicator light on the panel went off and then on again for good. He has said this was several minutes flying time north of Vancouver. People on this thread (not you) sometimes talk about the pilots as if they were lost or something. Rataczak has said that they knew WHERE he jumped, but not WHERE he landed, because that would depend on the wind and when he pulled the ripcord. Early pull, more drift. Later pull, less drift. But he didn't drift all the way to Vancouver or Portland. I think Rataczak mentioned eight minutes or so north of Vancouver, which would make it approximately twenty-five miles north of there. For anything else, you should ask Skipp Porteous. He did the interview and he does answer questions. (that was meant seriously. He really does answer.) The question was: "how" did he know. I know what his title and job were. If I ask: "How could a Swarthchild event horizon leak?", the right answer will not be, "Because he is a physicist". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Farflung 0 #23024 May 24, 2011 Now for the tragic story of another ‘Sad Sack’ veteran that was looking for that jackpot from a hijacking. Of course I’m talking about Robb D. Heady of the ‘Biggest Little Hijacking City in the World’……. Reno. What’s up with that? Anyway, Robb has refined the process by bringing his own backpack and parachute while wearing a disguise as he bum rushed the 727. Once on board he asked for the traditional $200,000 but this time they were to be $100s, none of those bulky 20s for this hijacker. Then he releases the PAX but has to switch planes due to low fuel and a bad engine. Heady uses the Stewardesses as human shields and boards the second plane still wearing his pillow case with eye holes. Heady gets the money collected from local casinos and begins to pack his knapsack to discover it’s too small. Nooooooooooooo…. (cough, cough)….. oooooooooooooooooo. So he jams around $155,000 into his pack and jumps from this 727 into the pitch dark at 14,000 feet. So much for the magic 10,000 foot altitude and oxygen masks going off stuff from Cooper’s heist. Considering that Reno’s elevation is 4,415 feet and 3 inches one may need that extra vertical airspace to complete a successful jump. So anecdotally the O2 mask deployment consideration would at best be location dependent if the hijacker gave a hoot in the first place. Fortunately this thread is a haven from non-linear processes and non sequitur leaps of logic, that’s for sure. This aircrew was very sure that the hijacker had jumped. How sure you intelligently ask? They took forty acres and they turned that rig around and headed back to Reno. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDxVJ471hyg Yep, instead of flying to where ever in some ridiculous configuration and flirting with controlled flight into terrain they were sure enough to land some thirty minutes after takeoff. I don’t know the details but they may have even raised and locked the stairs on this flight. I’m sure one of the many crack researchers will find the one true answer and use this as a boilerplate for theory validation. Nahhhhh, I was just kidding, too dry and technical, conspiracies and Roswell Aliens are way more fun and don’t require any of that buzzkill logic or reason. Within half a day the cops catch Heady as he is walking to his car which was parked in the danger zone on the east side of Washoe Lake. He had lost his money during the jump. Nooooooooooooooo……. (cough, cough)…. ooooooooooooooo. Back then the wheels of justice turned much quicker and Heady was sentenced to 30 years in prison with a requirement that he serve at least ten. Well, that is a very interesting profile of another hijacking with many similarities to Cooper’s. At least one can add another tick mark to the ‘Goober’ column in regards to aeronautical and aft stair knowledge. Gosh, I wonder what ever happened to Robb Heady after he mishandled around $45,000 of cash in that wind blasted plane and then could not hold on to the remaining $155,000 for more than a few seconds? http://www.durangocowboygathering.org/about.php Nooooooooooooo…. (cough, cough)…. oooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 22 #23025 May 24, 2011 Wonder what would happen if we.... http://fromtheflightdeck.com/Reviews/727/TWA727/ Good thing this was a separate 727 incident and didnt involve slat extension hacking: Prison for 3 Northwest Pilots Who Flew 727 Jet While Drunk AP Published: October 27, 1990 Three former Northwest Airlines pilots who flew a passenger jet while intoxicated were sentenced to prison today, two for a year and the other for 16 months. Federal District Judge James Rosenbaum also imposed three years' probation on each, telling them, "Gentlemen, you are good men who have done a bad thing." The sentences were within Federal guidelines, which recommended 12 to 18 months; the maximum would have been 15 years. Under Federal law, no parole is possible for sentences of a year or less; the 16-month sentence carries a possibility of less than two weeks' parole. Judge Rosenbaum left open the possibility that the three could remain free pending their appeals. Flying With 91 Passengers The three were convicted of being intoxicated while flying a Boeing 727 with 91 passengers from Fargo, N.D., to Minneapolis the morning of March 8. They are Norman Lyle Prouse, 51 years old, of Conyers, Ga., the captain; Robert Kirchner, 36, of Highland Ranch, Colo., the first officer, and Joseph Balzer, 35, of Antioch, Tenn., the flight engineer. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
