DB Cooper

[377 22]

Jo wrote:

  Quote

Our diplomatic 377 trying to turn the current conversation back in time.

Ok, I agree the FBI screwed that one up also - the FBI dropped the ball again. They did NOT do what should have been done regarding the Amboy chute! The FBI should have curbed that one when it happened....as you said it had a readable serial number.

The FBI didnt drop the ball, they asked Cossey if it was his chute and he said it was not. Cossey has no motive to lie about it not being his. In fact, he could make some money by lieing and identifying it as DBC's jump chute. If he still owns it, he could sell the item for a few thousand easily, perhaps a lot more.

It would be good to know more about the Amboy chute but the FBI's mission is crime investigation, not aviation accidents, so I can understand why they didn't press on.

I'd like to look at the chute. I could tell a lot about what it is and isnt just by looking at the ends of the risers to see what kind of connector hardware is there. I could also tell whether it is silk or Nylon. If it's Nylon I'd have some questions about Cossey's basing his answers on the fact that it was silk and therefore could not be the DBC chute from his loft.

Why am I talking about the Amboy chute instead of joining the irrelevant catfight about nasty phone calls and misinterpretted posts? Because this current fray doesnt have much to do with Norjack. Lets refocus folks.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 247]

  Quote

Jo wrote:

  Quote

Our diplomatic 377 trying to turn the current conversation back in time.

Ok, I agree the FBI screwed that one up also - the FBI dropped the ball again. They did NOT do what should have been done regarding the Amboy chute! The FBI should have curbed that one when it happened....as you said it had a readable serial number.

The FBI didnt drop the ball, they asked Cossey if it was his chute and he said it was not. Cossey has no motive to lie about it not being his. In fact, he could make some money by lieing and identifying it as DBC's jump chute. If he still owns it, he could sell the item for a few thousand easily, perhaps a lot more.

It would be good to know more about the Amboy chute but the FBI's mission is crime investigation, not aviation accidents, so I can understand why they didn't press on.

I'd like to look at the chute. I could tell a lot about what it is and isnt just by looking at the ends of the risers to see what kind of connector hardware is there. I could also tell whether it is silk or Nylon. If it's Nylon I'd have some questions about Cossey's basing his answers on the fact that it was silk and therefore could not be the DBC chute from his loft.

Why am I talking about the Amboy chute instead of joining the irrelevant catfight about nasty phone calls and misinterpretted posts? Because this current fray doesnt have much to do with Norjack. Lets refocus folks.

377

Refocus: you can select nylon vs silk by a simple
burn test. Would take all of 10 secs.

Maybe Carr already did this with his Bic?

[The blind can do it by smell alone.]

Silk is organic, a protein. Burns like hair or feathers
(may even flash) to a clean grey ash soft with
organic smell. Nylon is a hydrocarbon. Burns more
slowly (will melt first, drips) to a hard black ash
(carbon), with sharp acrid smell (electrical).

{agents now pouring out of the Seattle office with
a swath of the chute to test ...}

[377 22]

  Quote

{agents now pouring out of the Seattle office with
a swath of the chute to test ...}

Funny.

My first malfunction, a ball of garbage flapping fluttering C9 going down fast, actually melted some of the nylon from friction heating. No repairing that baby when I found it after my cutaway. It wasnt even good for a car cover.

A $25 Navy Conical canopy, salvaged from a surplus NB6 and rigged in a chest mounted reserve container, saved my life.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[BruceSmith 3]

Bruce, May I add some additional insights that I have learned within the past month based on personal experience with wildfires.

The time to start preparing for an emergency evacuation is about three years before the need arises. Perhaps important paperwork could be scanned onto computer disks and those disks stored in safe deposit boxes.

Don't expect to get the word about an emergency evacuation before the fire gets to you. Actually, it was the smoke and ash that got to me before any word about an evacuation.

Thanks to a four lane divided highway on the other side of my rear property fence, the fire trucks were able to easily maneuver on the highway to keep the fire itself about 2 to 3 hundred feet from my house (and upwind at that).

However, the fire did burn some parts of the highway median and in at least one case made it across the highway into a weeded area but was contained by the fire fighters. But no one on my side of the highway lost any property to my knowledge.

The moral of this story is to plan ahead. When the smoke and fire starts is much to late.

Robert Nicholson

[BruceSmith 3]

I hope Bruce gets to interview Cossey.

  Quote

I did, about two years ago. He refused to be interviewed in person even though he lives just a few miles away. As a result, the interview I had was conducted over the phone, and lasted about 30 minutes.

"Coss," as he prefers, was hard to get ahold of, and took a couple weeks. However, he had been on vacation for part of that time.

He was coy with me regarding the chutes on the plane, as has been discussed here a while back.

He told me defintively that the Amboy chute was not a DBC chute. In fact, Coss told me that Danny jumped with Coss' own personal chute, and Coss is convinced that Cooper died in a no-pull because the NB8/6 that he used had been extensively modified.

As I recal, the rip cord had an unusal angle to it, and Coss described it as a hard pull. Further, the 28-foot NB-8 chute was stuffed into an NB-6 bag for reasons that are unknown to me.

Coss also told me that the FBI wanted to milk the Amboy chute controversary and get more media mileage out of it. Coss said that when the feds brought the chute to his house for examination and he told them in "two seconds" that it wasn't a Cooper chute, they then instructed him to "keep that information quiet for awhile, please." I was led to believe that the FBI wanted to impress the public with their diligence in the case, even though the chute was a false lead.

I posted an extensive report on my interview with Cossey here on the DZ about two years ago.

Also, Coss spoke to me in an even and cordial manner. He did not seem "put out" that yet one more journalist was calling for his time. Also, I spoke a couple times with his adult daughter, who was also amiable and gracious. I was surprised when my suggestion that I come over for an interview was denied.

• Quote

[skyjack71 0]

News article - in summary:

This is the 45th anniversary of the U.S. Freedom of Information Act. National Security Archives found a continued back log and little progress has been made to respond more quickly. Most of the request are over 20 yrs old.

They have blamed this on a lengthy referral process in which any agency that claims an ownership state in the material can seek to prevent the release.

Nat Jones FOIA coordinator at the Nation Security Archives stated: "To really bring the government into a new era of open government, President Obama needs to force agencies to deal with their FOIA problems and tackle their decrepit requests."

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Bruce see if you can address the question inserts in red I made - these are things I have asked before and never got answers to.

  Quote

I did, about two years ago. He refused to be interviewed in person even though he lives just a few miles away. As a result, the interview I had was conducted over the phone, and lasted about 30 minutes.

"Coss," as he prefers, was hard to get ahold of, and took a couple weeks. However, he had been on vacation for part of that time.

He was coy with me regarding the chutes on the plane, as has been discussed here a while back.

He told me defintively that the Amboy chute was not a DBC chute. In fact, Coss told me that Danny jumped with Coss' own personal chute, and Coss is convinced that Cooper died in a no-pull because the NB8/6 that he used had been extensively modified.

Question insert - Jumped with Cossey's personal chute, but does NO rule out this was the canvas in the dummy chute

As I recall, the rip cord had an unusal angle to it, and Coss described it as a hard pull. Further, the 28-foot NB-8 chute was stuffed into an NB-6 bag for reasons that are unknown to me.

Question insert - I understand it was a LEFT hand pull which would have been what Cooper needed if it was Weber. Weber was left handed.

Coss also told me that the FBI wanted to milk the Amboy chute controversary and get more media mileage out of it. Coss said that when the feds brought the chute to his house for examination and he told them in "two seconds" that it wasn't a Cooper chute, they then instructed him to "keep that information quiet for awhile, please." I was led to believe that the FBI wanted to impress the public with their diligence in the case, even though the chute was a false lead.

I posted an extensive report on my interview with Cossey here on the DZ about two years ago.

Also, Coss spoke to me in an even and cordial manner. He did not seem "put out" that yet one more journalist was calling for his time. Also, I spoke a couple times with his adult daughter, who was also amiable and gracious. I was surprised when my suggestion that I come over for an interview was denied.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[sailshaw 0]

Bruce: I wounder if Cossey was saying that the Amboy chute was not his personal chute that DB jumped with? He needs to address the Chest Chute dummy and did he actually know what was packed in the dummy carrier? Could he be covering for Sheridan who he must have known and the story that his personal chute would not function due to the modified rip-cord? That it could of not have worked was possibly a cover-up for Sheridan's sake.

Bob

[377 22]

It's just too much of a stretch to assume Cossey was in on the crime or is covering up for someone. If it was Mayfield in his place I might have a different opinion. If the Amboy chute was the dummy reserve canopy I think Cossey would have ID'd it as such. The sewing together of panels would have been very obvious.

A tightly packed rig (C9 canopy in an NB6 container) combined with a slightly unconventional right hand outboard pull setup could make for a difficult deployment. An experienced skydiver could handle it, but a novice might not. Add night, obscured horizon visual reference, tumbling, and possible interference from the money container and you have a good formula for someone going in as a no pull.

Sheridan could have handled it, I am sure of that, but all we have is evidence of his impressive qualifications to be DBC. There is zero evidence that puts him on the plane. The FBI has ruled him out on DNA but that doesnt convince me so far because I dont know the basis for the FBI's confidence that they have Cooper's partial DNA.

I sure hope Bruce can interview Sheridan. Even if he isnt DBC Pete is a fascinating guy with a story to tell. As people age they often swing to the right politically, but not Pete. He is still full of left wing anti authoritarian piss and vinegar. I like his attitude and tenacity.

Sailshaw, can you post your best recollection of EXACTLY what Sheridan asked you about the 727 when he lived at your place? Are you 100% sure about him inquiring about the stairs? Exactly what do you recall him asking? Give as close to a verbatim account as you can.

The stair inquiry doesnt mean he was DBC, but if accurately recalled it sure as hell is interesting. It's possible Pete was somehow contemplating a non criminal sport jump from a 727. He has a history of attempting unconventional skydives (eg homemade bat wings).

There have been pirate jumps from airliners, usually during ferrying to a new location without passengers.
People dont post about them because it could burn the crew that allowed it. You wouldnt believe some of the stuff that has been done with airliners off the books and under the radar. A BAC 111 jet was flown under a bridge in the dark with the aircraft lights. shut off. Someone who posts on dropzone snagged a DH Dash 8 (big twin turboprop airliner) jump. Maybe Pete was initially thinking about befriending a crew and jumping from a 727 during a delivery or repositioning flight.

That 727 jump daydream could have been revived later with a criminal touch if he got into severe financial trouble. Still, Pete seems like a principled guy who abhors violence. I just have a hard time seeing him threatening to blow up an airliner and terrifying the crew, all for money. The only info I have that points towards compromised morals or ethics is allgations that he may have aided fires instead of suppressing them to get more smoke jumper pay. It's a big leap from that to threatening extreme violence to innocent people.

Pete is being coy about his book. You can no longer buy it online and he has indicated that there may be a second volume or edition. Sheridan Peterson if you are reading this, and I think you probably are, I'd like to buy an autographed copy. Please post some info on how it can be done.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 247]

  Quote

It's just too much of a stretch to assume Cossey was in on the crime or is covering up for someone. If it was Mayfield in his place I might have a different opinion. If the Amboy chute was the dummy reserve canopy I think Cossey would have ID'd it as such. The sewing together of panels would have been very obvious.

A tightly packed rig (C9 canopy in an NB6 container) combined with a slightly unconventional right hand outboard pull setup could make for a difficult deployment. An experienced skydiver could handle it, but a novice might not. Add night, obscured horizon visual reference, tumbling, and possible interference from the money container and you have a good formula for someone going in as a no pull.

Sheridan could have handled it, I am sure of that, but all we have is evidence of his impressive qualifications to be DBC. There is zero evidence that puts him on the plane. The FBI has ruled him out on DNA but that doesnt convince me so far because I dont know the basis for the FBI's confidence that they have Cooper's partial DNA.

I sure hope Bruce can interview Sheridan. Even if he isnt DBC Pete is a fascinating guy with a story to tell. As people age they often swing to the right politically, but not Pete. He is still full of left wing anti authoritarian piss and vinegar. I like his attitude and tenacity.

Sailshaw, can you post your best recollection of EXACTLY what Sheridan asked you about the 727 when he lived at your place? Are you 100% sure about him inquiring about the stairs? Exactly what do you recall him asking? Give as close to a verbatim account as you can.

The stair inquiry doesnt mean he was DBC, but if accurately recalled it sure as hell is interesting. It's possible Pete was somehow contemplating a non criminal sport jump from a 727. He has a history of attempting unconventional skydives (eg homemade bat wings).

There have been pirate jumps from airliners, usually during ferrying to a new location without passengers.
People dont post about them because it could burn the crew that allowed it. You wouldnt believe some of the stuff that has been done with airliners off the books and under the radar. A BAC 111 jet was flown under a bridge in the dark with the aircraft lights. shut off. Someone who posts on dropzone snagged a DH Dash 8 (big twin turboprop airliner) jump. Maybe Pete was initially thinking about befriending a crew and jumping from a 727 during a delivery or repositioning flight.

That 727 jump daydream could have been revived later with a criminal touch if he got into severe financial trouble. Still, Pete seems like a principled guy who abhors violence. I just have a hard time seeing him threatening to blow up an airliner and terrifying the crew, all for money. The only info I have that points towards compromised morals or ethics is allgations that he may have aided fires instead of suppressing them to get more smoke jumper pay. It's a big leap from that to threatening extreme violence to innocent people.

Pete is being coy about his book. You can no longer buy it online and he has indicated that there may be a second volume or edition. Sheridan Peterson if you are reading this, and I think you probably are, I'd like to buy an autographed copy. Please post some info on how it can be done.

377

Cossey had a strong alibi. He was fully exposed.
Moreover, if I understand the events/facts correctly
it was Issaquah that was initially contacted, not
Cossey. Issaquah then contacted Cossey. And
Issaquah would never have been involved at all
until a specific event happened. The chutes were
originally going to come from McChord. The chutes
Cossey supplied at the last moment were personal
chutes he had at his home, not at Issaquah. Had
Cossey not supplied his chutes there would have
been additional delay ...

I agree. Sheridan was not totally unique. It's
possible Pete was contemplating a sport jump from
a 727. He had a history of attempting creative
skydives (eg homemade bat wings). Lots of people
had such ideas and communicated these ideas.

Hijacking airplanes had become a fact of life. It
was only a matter of time until someone would
combine parachuting from a plane with hijacking.
The particular configuration of the 727 made that
inevitable. (and some engineer had probably
anticipated what some criminal might try, but
nobody took it seriously until it happened).

McCoy even talked about it in advance!

[Robert99 50]

  Quote

  Quote

It's just too much of a stretch to assume Cossey was in on the crime or is covering up for someone. If it was Mayfield in his place I might have a different opinion. If the Amboy chute was the dummy reserve canopy I think Cossey would have ID'd it as such. The sewing together of panels would have been very obvious.

A tightly packed rig (C9 canopy in an NB6 container) combined with a slightly unconventional right hand outboard pull setup could make for a difficult deployment. An experienced skydiver could handle it, but a novice might not. Add night, obscured horizon visual reference, tumbling, and possible interference from the money container and you have a good formula for someone going in as a no pull.

Sheridan could have handled it, I am sure of that, but all we have is evidence of his impressive qualifications to be DBC. There is zero evidence that puts him on the plane. The FBI has ruled him out on DNA but that doesnt convince me so far because I dont know the basis for the FBI's confidence that they have Cooper's partial DNA.

I sure hope Bruce can interview Sheridan. Even if he isnt DBC Pete is a fascinating guy with a story to tell. As people age they often swing to the right politically, but not Pete. He is still full of left wing anti authoritarian piss and vinegar. I like his attitude and tenacity.

Sailshaw, can you post your best recollection of EXACTLY what Sheridan asked you about the 727 when he lived at your place? Are you 100% sure about him inquiring about the stairs? Exactly what do you recall him asking? Give as close to a verbatim account as you can.

The stair inquiry doesnt mean he was DBC, but if accurately recalled it sure as hell is interesting. It's possible Pete was somehow contemplating a non criminal sport jump from a 727. He has a history of attempting unconventional skydives (eg homemade bat wings).

There have been pirate jumps from airliners, usually during ferrying to a new location without passengers.
People dont post about them because it could burn the crew that allowed it. You wouldnt believe some of the stuff that has been done with airliners off the books and under the radar. A BAC 111 jet was flown under a bridge in the dark with the aircraft lights. shut off. Someone who posts on dropzone snagged a DH Dash 8 (big twin turboprop airliner) jump. Maybe Pete was initially thinking about befriending a crew and jumping from a 727 during a delivery or repositioning flight.

That 727 jump daydream could have been revived later with a criminal touch if he got into severe financial trouble. Still, Pete seems like a principled guy who abhors violence. I just have a hard time seeing him threatening to blow up an airliner and terrifying the crew, all for money. The only info I have that points towards compromised morals or ethics is allgations that he may have aided fires instead of suppressing them to get more smoke jumper pay. It's a big leap from that to threatening extreme violence to innocent people.

Pete is being coy about his book. You can no longer buy it online and he has indicated that there may be a second volume or edition. Sheridan Peterson if you are reading this, and I think you probably are, I'd like to buy an autographed copy. Please post some info on how it can be done.

377

Cossey had a strong alibi. He was fully exposed.
Moreover, if I understand the events/facts correctly
it was Issaquah that was initially contacted, not
Cossey. Issaquah then contacted Cossey. And
Issaquah would never have been involved at all
until a specific event happened. The chutes were
originally going to come from McChord. The chutes
Cossey supplied at the last moment were personal
chutes he had at his home, not at Issaquah. Had
Cossey not supplied his chutes there would have
been additional delay ...

I agree. Sheridan was not totally unique. It's
possible Pete was contemplating a sport jump from
a 727. He had a history of attempting creative
skydives (eg homemade bat wings). Lots of people
had such ideas and communicated these ideas.

Hijacking airplanes had become a fact of life. It
was only a matter of time until someone would
combine parachuting from a plane with hijacking.
The particular configuration of the 727 made that
inevitable. (and some engineer had probably
anticipated what some criminal might try, but
nobody took it seriously until it happened).

McCoy even talked about it in advance!

If the main chute that Cooper took actually had the rip cord on the right side it suggests two possibilities.

Tina is quoted in Tosaw's book as saying that Cooper did a complete "pre-flight" of the main chute as she was standing beside him. This included checking the packing card.

The first possibility is that Cooper was left handed and assumed that he was jumping either an emergency or sports chute intended for left handed people.

Second, Cooper was right handed but prefered that chute to the other one for unknown reasons. If Cooper was in fact right handed, then a right side rip cord would greatly increase the possibility of a no-pull unless he had some parachuting experience.

It should be remembered that in the early 1970s, there were plenty of skydivers using a right side rip cord with a belly reserve. Perhaps Cooper had seen some of those.

I personally have never seen anything in the FAA regulations stating that the rip cord for emergency chutes had to be pulled only with the right hand. But I have also never seen an emergency chute (either chest, back, or seat) that wasn't set up for the rip cord to be pulled only by the right hand.

Robert Nicholson

[georger 247]

If the main chute that Cooper took actually had the rip cord on the right side it suggests two possibilities.

Tina is quoted in Tosaw's book as saying that Cooper did a complete "pre-flight" of the main chute as she was standing beside him. This included checking the packing card.

The first possibility is that Cooper was left handed and assumed that he was jumping either an emergency or sports chute intended for left handed people.

Second, Cooper was right handed but prefered that chute to the other one for unknown reasons. If Cooper was in fact right handed, then a right side rip cord would greatly increase the possibility of a no-pull unless he had some parachuting experience.

It should be remembered that in the early 1970s, there were plenty of skydivers using a right side rip cord with a belly reserve. Perhaps Cooper had seen some of those.

I personally have never seen anything in the FAA regulations stating that the rip cord for emergency chutes had to be pulled only with the right hand. But I have also never seen an emergency chute (either chest, back, or seat) that wasn't set up for the rip cord to be pulled only by the right hand.

Robert Nicholson

A practice run for McCoy by somebody McCoy knew?
That the two hijackings are related.

I always come back to this wild idea for some
inexplicable reason I cant shake. Pay no attention!

[Farflung 0]

Here is where my Bat-senses feel a little twinge of misalignment.

So Cooper did a preflight on his primary chute, to include the data card and was acting all Sky-godishy, then immediately suffered a crippling stupid attack when it came time to inspect the reserve. I simply can’t imagine this oversight by someone with any expertise.

Dang, this guy just can’t seem to fit into an experienced aviator profile for me (I know everyone hates this). I know after checking one engine, I always say, “Screw it, checking the other is a hassle” then finish with the phrase, “Christian Science Preflight Checklist - Complete”.

How did Cooper gut the good reserve for line and select a training dummy if he did a (force of habit) preflight on his gear?

I’m still not feeling much in the way of experience based upon crosschecking his behaviors. He DID jump with a training reserve after all which was included by mistake; hence the reason for system checklists. Not checking the redundant system is virtually the same as not having one, which was the case here. That’s deserving of some Darwinian consideration to say the least.

[Robert99 50]

  Quote

If the main chute that Cooper took actually had the rip cord on the right side it suggests two possibilities.

Tina is quoted in Tosaw's book as saying that Cooper did a complete "pre-flight" of the main chute as she was standing beside him. This included checking the packing card.

The first possibility is that Cooper was left handed and assumed that he was jumping either an emergency or sports chute intended for left handed people.

Second, Cooper was right handed but prefered that chute to the other one for unknown reasons. If Cooper was in fact right handed, then a right side rip cord would greatly increase the possibility of a no-pull unless he had some parachuting experience.

It should be remembered that in the early 1970s, there were plenty of skydivers using a right side rip cord with a belly reserve. Perhaps Cooper had seen some of those.

I personally have never seen anything in the FAA regulations stating that the rip cord for emergency chutes had to be pulled only with the right hand. But I have also never seen an emergency chute (either chest, back, or seat) that wasn't set up for the rip cord to be pulled only by the right hand.

Robert Nicholson

A practice run for McCoy by somebody McCoy knew?
That the two hijackings are related.

I always come back to this wild idea for some
inexplicable reason I cant shake. Pay no attention!



Maybe Cooper and McCoy knew each other, but the element of surprise would be lost after the first hi-jacking.

McCoy's jump seemed to be better planned. Cooper was taking a big chance of not being able to get any money from a bank since his hi-jacking was late in the afternoon with the next day being a banking holiday due to Thanksgiving.

I don't know when the bank vaults were scheduled to be locked, but I doubt if anyone was going to hang around late on Thanksgiving eve. After that, it would be Friday morning before the vaults could be opened.

Robert Nicholson

[georger 247]

  Quote

Here is where my Bat-senses feel a little twinge of misalignment.

So Cooper did a preflight on his primary chute, to include the data card and was acting all Sky-godishy, then immediately suffered a crippling stupid attack when it came time to inspect the reserve. I simply can’t imagine this oversight by someone with any expertise.

Dang, this guy just can’t seem to fit into an experienced aviator profile for me (I know everyone hates this). I know after checking one engine, I always say, “Screw it, checking the other is a hassle” then finish with the phrase, “Christian Science Preflight Checklist - Complete”.

How did Cooper gut the good reserve for line and select a training dummy if he did a (force of habit) preflight on his gear?

I’m still not feeling much in the way of experience based upon crosschecking his behaviors. He DID jump with a training reserve after all which was included by mistake; hence the reason for system checklists. Not checking the redundant system is virtually the same as not having one, which was the case here. That’s deserving of some Darwinian consideration to say the least.

ditto. He must not have been a detail man? (His
crew: Geestman, Alaska Sally, and Bopo the tugboat
either) ?

[georger 247]

  Quote

  Quote

If the main chute that Cooper took actually had the rip cord on the right side it suggests two possibilities.

Tina is quoted in Tosaw's book as saying that Cooper did a complete "pre-flight" of the main chute as she was standing beside him. This included checking the packing card.

The first possibility is that Cooper was left handed and assumed that he was jumping either an emergency or sports chute intended for left handed people.

Second, Cooper was right handed but prefered that chute to the other one for unknown reasons. If Cooper was in fact right handed, then a right side rip cord would greatly increase the possibility of a no-pull unless he had some parachuting experience.

It should be remembered that in the early 1970s, there were plenty of skydivers using a right side rip cord with a belly reserve. Perhaps Cooper had seen some of those.

I personally have never seen anything in the FAA regulations stating that the rip cord for emergency chutes had to be pulled only with the right hand. But I have also never seen an emergency chute (either chest, back, or seat) that wasn't set up for the rip cord to be pulled only by the right hand.

Robert Nicholson

A practice run for McCoy by somebody McCoy knew?
That the two hijackings are related.

I always come back to this wild idea for some
inexplicable reason I cant shake. Pay no attention!

Maybe Cooper and McCoy knew each other, but the element of surprise would be lost after the first hi-jacking.

McCoy's jump seemed to be better planned. Cooper was taking a big chance of not being able to get any money from a bank since his hi-jacking was late in the afternoon with the next day being a banking holiday due to Thanksgiving.

I don't know when the bank vaults were scheduled to be locked, but I doubt if anyone was going to hang around late on Thanksgiving eve. After that, it would be Friday morning before the vaults could be opened.

Robert Nicholson To my knowledge, this has never been brought up here before. Interesting.

[377 22]

Can someone show me proof that Cooper looked at the packing data card on the main rig he jumped? Is this urban legend started by a book author or fact?

The packing card holder on an NB6 is exceedingly well concealed. A jumper or a rigger could find it but a Wuffo wouldn't even know it was there. If Cooper did look at the card he was parachute savvy.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[EVickiW 0]

  Quote

Maybe Cooper and McCoy knew each other, but the element of surprise would be lost after the first hi-jacking.

McCoy's jump seemed to be better planned. Cooper was taking a big chance of not being able to get any money from a bank since his hi-jacking was late in the afternoon with the next day being a banking holiday due to Thanksgiving.

I don't know when the bank vaults were scheduled to be locked, but I doubt if anyone was going to hang around late on Thanksgiving eve. After that, it would be Friday morning before the vaults could be opened.

Robert Nicholson
To my knowledge, this has never been brought up here before. Interesting.

This has been brought up before....by Bob Knoss. This is exactly his "experience" with McCoy and Weber practicing their "jumps" in Minneapolis/St. Paul.

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[377 22]

Farflung wrote

  Quote

Dang, this guy just can’t seem to fit into an experienced aviator profile for me (I know everyone hates this). I know after checking one engine, I always say, “Screw it, checking the other is a hassle” then finish with the phrase, “Christian Science Preflight Checklist - Complete”.

You could probably find a statistician who could back you up on sampling one of two engines. Eight engines take a bit more, but surely less than four checks. I mean when General LeMay ordered a scramble he didn't want time wasted on useless oversampling.

And if you are taking a Christian Science approach to aviation, why waste payload on fire suppression gear or ejection seats?

You'd make a fine jumpship pilot Farflung. You've got the right stuff.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 247]

  Quote

  Quote

Maybe Cooper and McCoy knew each other, but the element of surprise would be lost after the first hi-jacking.

McCoy's jump seemed to be better planned. Cooper was taking a big chance of not being able to get any money from a bank since his hi-jacking was late in the afternoon with the next day being a banking holiday due to Thanksgiving.

I don't know when the bank vaults were scheduled to be locked, but I doubt if anyone was going to hang around late on Thanksgiving eve. After that, it would be Friday morning before the vaults could be opened.

Robert Nicholson
To my knowledge, this has never been brought up here before. Interesting.

This has been brought up before....by Bob Knoss. This is exactly his "experience" with McCoy and Weber practicing their "jumps" in Minneapolis/St. Paul.

Good grief. What did he say? Can you summarise?
I always skipped over his posts ... cant win!
Thanks.
G.

[georger 247]

McCoy's jump seemed to be better planned. Cooper was taking a big chance of not being able to get any money from a bank since his hi-jacking was late in the afternoon with the next day being a banking holiday due to Thanksgiving.

I don't know when the bank vaults were scheduled to be locked, but I doubt if anyone was going to hang around late on Thanksgiving eve. After that, it would be Friday morning before the vaults could be opened.

Robert Nicholson

[EVickiW 0]

From Facebook D.B. Cooper page, Bob Knoss writes the following:

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Where did Cooper come from? He had recently been incarcerated in Missouri. Sgt. Richard Floyd McCoy, Jr. was provided with a U.S. Marshall's badge by the FBI and Mac went hunting for John Collins in California. He finally found him in the can in Missouri. Mac went down and talked with the warden who was "Just like a small town Sheriff," and talked him into releasing Duane Weber into his custody. Mac signed for him and took him with the understanding he was on a job. Mac got him his commutation for his service. This all happened in May of 1968. Mac got him and his wife and kids a job as caretaker and accountant for the apartment complex right north of mine, 9150 Lyndale Ave. S., Bloomington, Minnesota. They were in 9120, basement apartment, south side. My phone number was 888-7981. That phone number is still in service. Lots of history happened at that address. It was the center of everything from May through August, 1968. SEVEN players frequented that location

and......

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Dan Cooper was an AKA given to John Collins. When the trainer asked Cooper what his real name was, he answered, "I'm going by the name Dan Cooper, but my real name is Duane, no W, no Y, just plain Duane." Then the trainer asked, "What is your last name?" He responded, "Weber," in a very quiet manner as if to keep me from hearing. That is word for word exactly what was said. Papers were prepared with complete new data in his real name and stored in his locker with the parachute with the "X" on it to be provided at the time of his request. The FBI was to have the responsibility of providing this equipment. Sloppy work, but it got done correctly after a lot of mis-communication. These are factual statements in detail of what really happened, not conjecture.

and.....

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Cooper had never flown in a 727 before 1968. It was a new plane design. He was not familiar with the 727. He was instructed to go to the Minneapolis airport, board an airplane and ask for a tour. He did exactly that. As part of a classroom display of airline safety, this was a prime bad example. Cooper walked out on the tarmac, up the stairs and onto the 727. He asked the maintenance crew for a tour and GOT IT! They even showed him where the rear door controls were and how they worked! AMAZING!

and it goes on , and on, and on......

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[EVickiW 0]

more.....

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The time frame of the training was from May, 1968 through July and into August 1968, well prior to the incident. I DID call the FBI Minneapolis office at approximately 7PM one evening, (and spoke with Nicholas O'Hara) to inform them of the planning sessions. He advised me it was not illegal and to keep a diary and take pictures. I did not have enough guts to take pictures, but I recorded as much of the conversations as possible.

Funny thing...Nick O'Hara worked for the Ramsey County Sheriffs Department until his retirement in Sept 2010. I have met Nick while a volunteer at the county.

edited to include:

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Another paragraph in the Cooper Truth Serial: Why was Richard McCoy involved? His grades at BYU were not good. He was studying to be an FBI Agent. He was an avid parachutist and a helicopter pilot. Mac was working the Minnesota area as an Army Sgt., an undercover investigator working for Special Services on draft dodger cases. He was also acting as a caretaker in an apartment complex to reduce his living expenses. He met a new friend at this complex who was also a pilot and extremely interested in pilot safety on commercial airlines (The Boss). They talked at length many evenings and found much in common. They concocted this plan to hijack a Northwest flight as a demonstration of the safety problems.

and...

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Mac presented the concept to friends in the FBI at BYU and it went from there to higher-ups. A leader in the FAA from Minnesota also got involved. Nixon assigned a Task Force, Hoover assigned an agent to be in charge, and planning began with McCoy as Project Leader. I was assigned as McCoy's witness to the Project. That is a brief overview of what I participated in and how McCoy played his role in Cooper's jump.

last one....I am tired of this arduous copying and pasting!

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Why was it Duane Weber? Duane was chosen for Project Norjak for several reasons. First, he was a Native American and not afraid of heights. Second, he had been used before on covert activities. He was not dangerous, just unable to stay out of minor troubles. He was seriously ill with a short life expectancy without special care. He was in prison facing hard time. He did NOT like prison and was eager to make a deal. Using prisoners for risky jobs was commonplace. Nobody had ever tried a stairway jump from a 727. Everyone wanted to, but nobody had the guts. "Let Duane do it! We'll give him a pardon and lifetime care for his illness." Duane took the deal. Wouldn't you? He had never jumped before so he had to be trained. The first volunteer trainer changed his mind and opted out. "The Boss" had to step in and do it himself. Talk about top flight training! Duane had the very best!

He seems to ramble on Facebook as he is not really challenged by anyone.


another edit....quite the coincidence. Nicholas O"Hara was the FBI agent that shot McCoy.

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[Farflung 0]

Probably because I’m not much of a cook, at least not in the kitchen if ya know whatta mean.

The reviews keep accumulating for Gray’s book on Amazon.com and the latest batch simply slays me.

One reviewer outlined some of the finer investigative research which attracts certain types of higher level thinkers into the Cooper vortex. He describes how the author is sitting in a cabin in unwashed clothes and begging a woman he (Gray) describes as ‘off her rocker’, to read him a cherry cheesecake recipe over the phone, because there may be a coded message about the location of the money or the identity of Cooper.

Fortunately, I keep a spare pair of pants around for seeing just such a passage would induce bladder failure on any unsuspecting reader. A secret message in a cookbook that ‘may’ have contained a childhood picture of Tina??? Dayumm.

[EVickiW 0]

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Probably because I’m not much of a cook, at least not in the kitchen if ya know whatta mean.

You must be one of those guys that grills on the deck/patio/lanai......

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs